What the fuckkkk!!!!!!!!!! - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

mattro · 08-04-2009, 04:09 PM

so im tq'ing my head back on after a LONG and tedious "build" and one of my head bolts WILL NOT TQ DOWN.

and b4 anyone can say it, i followed FSM tq procedure TO THE LETTER.

only when i try to tq to 105 from 70 do i have a problem, (arp tq to 105 in 3 equal steps. 35, 70, 105.)

i swear to god ill part my car out now if somone even utters the word "stripped" remember, it tq's to 70. but not 105. also, all the other nuts have no problem going to 105, just the second from the front exhaust side.

Sileighty_85 · 08-04-2009, 04:15 PM

what do you mean wont tourqe down?

like still spinning? or wont go all the way down?

mattro · 08-04-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sileighty_85

what do you mean wont tourqe down?

like still spinning? or wont go all the way down?

it never gets any more resistance on it after 70ftlbs

so yea. it just keeps spinning.

so that in my mind means the stud is just coming up through the threads in the head.

zylvia213 · 08-04-2009, 04:36 PM

have you unscrewed it out? If you have is it hard when unscrewing? If the thread is stripped on the block then you would automaticly see it on the head bolt cause pieces of the thread itself will end up on the head bolt. I know in some cars theres short and long bolts.... maybe your using one thats too short???? As you are torquing that one bolt does it just spin like freely or is it kinda tight?

mattro · 08-04-2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zylvia213

have you unscrewed it out? If you have is it hard when unscrewing? If the thread is stripped on the block then you would automaticly see it on the head bolt cause pieces of the thread itself will end up on the head bolt. I know in some cars theres short and long bolts.... maybe your using one thats too short???? As you are torquing that one bolt does it just spin like freely or is it kinda tight?

bolts are all the same length.

ill go unscew it now and post a pic.

like i said, it will tq to 70ft lbs but not to 105. so its tight but not tight enough.

edit. IT WONT COME OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

im done, i quit.

about to push my 24 to the end of the drive way with a "free" sign on it.

Sileighty_85 · 08-04-2009, 05:00 PM

talk to a machine shop maybe they can helicoil it??
never delt with this problem before

mattro · 08-04-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sileighty_85

talk to a machine shop maybe they can helicoil it??
never delt with this problem before

there arent any within walking distance. i live in rochester, we used to have a bunch. now there all out of business.

and thanks for the help guys. idk what to do now.

smink · 08-04-2009, 05:14 PM

ARP makes 10mm blot kits and 11mm bolt kits for the head. If it is stripped, which sure sounds like thats the case, you could get the 11mm kit and have your block drilled and tapped for the 11mm's. Which is kinda good, because then you can up the boost with less worries.

mattro · 08-04-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smink

ARP makes 10mm blot kits and 11mm bolt kits for the head. If it is stripped, which sure sounds like thats the case, you could get the 11mm kit and have your block drilled and tapped for the 11mm's. Which is kinda good, because then you can up the boost with less worries.

im running stock internals.

so after a bit of man-handling my head off the block. here is what i found,

arp head bolt FAIL

remember i tq'd this one the same as the two middle ones,

here is a pic you wont believe.

as much as i am relieved, i still cant get it out of the block. any ideas?

4sfed180 · 08-04-2009, 05:29 PM

to drill and tap it he still has to, at least, pull the head off.

try to take the stud out again. be careful but forceful. maybe thats not the right choice of words but i hope you get it.

good luck and post some pics.

Edit: posted a few secs after you did.

the bolt went into plastic deformation.

i dont thing you can use an allen wrench on top any more. get a stud extractor tool and pull it out.

sent this pictures to ARP and have them send you a new one.

Azimmer · 08-04-2009, 05:34 PM

stripped ahahahahaha

mattro · 08-04-2009, 05:35 PM

yea i will be doing that, and i figured about the allen lol, im so happy i kept my cool and dint punch somthing. whew, glad thats over.

smink · 08-04-2009, 05:57 PM

Wow...ARP for the lose, at least this round.

TheWolf · 08-04-2009, 06:26 PM

Get used to it.. ARP moved production facilities to china about 6 months ago. Alot of racers have found this out.

as for the stud in the block... you'll need this

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=94640

mattro · 08-04-2009, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azimmer

stripped ahahahahaha

your a bum.

and thanks for the link, much appreciated.

WAIT there made in china? the box still says usa.

steve shadows · 08-04-2009, 09:06 PM

It looks like you did not follow instructions properly or you are using extremely USED equipment

username · 08-04-2009, 11:06 PM

You could just put 2 nuts on the top set of threads, tighten them together, then use a wrench on the bottom nut to turn the stud out.

atutt · 08-05-2009, 01:25 AM

Plasma cutter solves all lifes little problems... Neighbours dog being a dick and won't shut up? Take a plasma cutter to his toe....

I'd be calling up ARP and bitching like a 13 year old school girl who just found out her b/f made out with her 16 year old sister.

Nissan_Power · 08-05-2009, 06:56 AM

so...if ARP cant be trusted no more, what company makes good, reliable studs ???

jr_ss · 08-05-2009, 03:54 PM

For starters, you're trqing the ARP's way too high. 4 even steps to 80ftlbs on the ARP's. 20-40-60-80, done. 105 is not the right number you need to be going to. There have been multiple people that have done this/gotten the wrong information in their packets and have broke and/or stretched them doing this.

steve shadows · 08-05-2009, 03:58 PM

You should not be torquing them past 75 ftl ls period... they are studs not bolts, they work differently and better

Sileighty_85 · 08-05-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr_ss

For starters, you're trqing the ARP's way too high. 4 even steps to 80ftlbs on the ARP's. 20-40-60-80, done. 105 is not the right number you need to be going to. There have been multiple people that have done this/gotten the wrong information in their packets and have broke and/or stretched them doing this.

yeah i remember reading those threads, here the instructions that came with my SR ARP's

mattro · 08-05-2009, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve shadows

It looks like you did not follow instructions properly or you are using extremely USED equipment

wow funny, i followed the instructions to the letter using a brand new tq wrench.

thanks for the insult to my intelligence. not to be a dick but, damn that was pretty dick-y thing for you to say. i may not be as exp'd as you but id like to think that my auto tech teachers passed me and gave me written recommendations for at least being able to follow instructions and being able to tq. properly.

moving on............

and here are the ones that came with my set. they clearly say 105. woa, i can read.

since arp failed (again lol) to respond to my email, im calling them as soon as i get off from work tomorrow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by username

You could just put 2 nuts on the top set of threads, tighten them together, then use a wrench on the bottom nut to turn the stud out.

i thought about that, but chances are i would have to put just as much force on the nut to remove the stud and the problem is that its that its now stretched, and i might just snap it.
besides the stud remover is a 4.99 tool that i dont have. might as well pick one up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nissan_Power

so...if ARP cant be trusted no more, what company makes good, reliable studs ???

i second this.

steve shadows · 08-05-2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattro

wow funny, i followed the instructions to the letter using a brand new tq wrench.

thanks for the insult to my intelligence. not to be a dick but, damn that was pretty dick-y thing for you to say. i may not be as exp'd as you but id like to think that my auto tech teachers passed me and gave me written recommendations for at least being able to follow instructions and being able to tq. properly.

?????

How was that a dick thing to say?

I have not followed instructions before and I am man enough to admit it...

It's not a big deal, someone, me, is trying to help you pin point the isssue and you obviously either used VERY used ARP studs as fill ins for new parts or you did not follow the very specific install for ARP studs on an SR>

They are very specific and it is very easy to over torque if you miss a step.

Its not as simple as just Torquing it the right way.

1. you have to pre-set them in the head properly with a special lubricant
2. you have to pre-load them into the head with an allen key at just the right torque
3. you have to remove them completely in sequence...
4. you have to install the head flush and properly set it on the deck
5. you have to re install the studs with the allen key at the right torque/turn
6. you have to then install lubricant to your nuts and then put the nuts on in sequence properly
7. Torque the nuts down in sequence properly. You don't need more than 75 ft lbs period. anything over 90 and you will stretch break your studs, which is what you did again, UNLESS they are old equip.

NOW SLOW DOWN ARE YOU SURE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT MODEL NUMBER FOR BOLTS???

ARP typically reboxes or re-sells Acura Integra units for the SR20 motors. Shops that are not SR specific and do not know this will not advise their cusotmers on the differences of installing thes studs.

Now if you still have 100% right set of ARP studs (which recently they did release a revised set that is specific to the SR with instructions) then something else ie, your torque wrench is not calibrated or you got a Factory defective set might be a possibilty - I know and have done MANY of these installs in a jiffy, so this would have to the key issue

see...and even after you said something very ignorant that made no sense I was still nice enough to lay it all out for you.

steve shadows · 08-05-2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattro

i second this.

anyone who uses english in the following maner "ARP CANT BE TRUSTED NO MORE"

cannot be trusted.

You need to slow down for a second and think logically.

Mazworx makes a far superior stud set but is tripple the price.

It is very possible you got the wrong units, defects or tool failure in you have the exactly right instrucitons.

Something is off though...105 is ALOT, unless they revised the kit from a couple of years ago

jr_ss · 08-05-2009, 09:54 PM

If they were meant to go to 105, I don't think they would stretch like it did Steve. I have never heard of going over 80lbs with ARP's in the SR application.

steve shadows · 08-06-2009, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr_ss

If they were meant to go to 105, I don't think they would stretch like it did Steve. I have never heard of going over 80lbs with ARP's in the SR application.

You are not supposed to torque over 80 ft lbs.

75-80 MAX is what everyone uses who builds SRs for any length of time.

There was a write up on it on Freshalloy in 2002...

Now unless ARP has changed the model they sell for th SR...This could be possible.

I remember about 4 years ago they were still using the LS Acura Integra motor studs which on the SR only needed to be torqued to 75 lbs max because they did not SEAT all the way into the deck of the block/ or thread all the way down 100% into the holes in the deck of the blck. So they handled slightly different tolerances due to this

spartanmisfit · 08-06-2009, 05:01 AM

I had a similar problem with my dsm a few years back. It ended up being that my block was warped.

Nissan_Power · 08-06-2009, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve shadows

anyone who uses english in the following maner "ARP CANT BE TRUSTED NO MORE"

cannot be trusted.

Im sorry if english is not my first language....but still, you understood ???

mattro · 08-06-2009, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve shadows

?????

How was that a dick thing to say?

I have not followed instructions before and I am man enough to admit it...

It's not a big deal, someone, me, is trying to help you pin point the isssue and you obviously either used VERY used ARP studs as fill ins for new parts or you did not follow the very specific install for ARP studs on an SR>

They are very specific and it is very easy to over torque if you miss a step.

Its not as simple as just Torquing it the right way.

1. you have to pre-set them in the head properly with a special lubricant
2. you have to pre-load them into the head with an allen key at just the right torque
3. you have to remove them completely in sequence...
4. you have to install the head flush and properly set it on the deck
5. you have to re install the studs with the allen key at the right torque/turn
6. you have to then install lubricant to your nuts and then put the nuts on in sequence properly
7. Torque the nuts down in sequence properly. You don't need more than 75 ft lbs period. anything over 90 and you will stretch break your studs, which is what you did again, UNLESS they are old equip.

NOW SLOW DOWN ARE YOU SURE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT MODEL NUMBER FOR BOLTS???

ARP typically reboxes or re-sells Acura Integra units for the SR20 motors. Shops that are not SR specific and do not know this will not advise their cusotmers on the differences of installing thes studs.

Now if you still have 100% right set of ARP studs (which recently they did release a revised set that is specific to the SR with instructions) then something else ie, your torque wrench is not calibrated or you got a Factory defective set might be a possibilty - I know and have done MANY of these installs in a jiffy, so this would have to the key issue

see...and even after you said something very ignorant that made no sense I was still nice enough to lay it all out for you.

and i appriciate that. and my point was that you sir assumed that i didnt do it properly.

i have the 102-4701 nissan 2.0l de/det dohc bolts.

now. like i said, i did follow the instuctions to the letter, these are "brand new" arp studs and bolts and i was useing a NEW tq wrench, i posted a pic of the instructions literally on my coffee table and they do say "7. Following the manufacturers recommended tq seq tighten the nuts in THREE EQUAL STEPS to 105 ftlbs with arp moly assembly lube."

i think this is just a case of a bad bolt. because if i was tq ing the bolts too much, why didnt the others fail?

and on a seperate not, i have much different instuctions than you do, apperently.

mine actually use the phrase "hand tight"

here are pics of model # and full instructions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spartanmisfit

I had a similar problem with my dsm a few years back. It ended up being that my block was warped.

it is a very low mile block, supposedly

EDIT!

just got off the phone with arp.

they HAVE changed the studs. for those of you saying that 105 is too much, you would have been correct a year or so ago. i do have the proper instructions and they sent me a new stud free of charge. (yea stickin it to the man!)

thank you all for your help.

08-04-2009, 04:09 PM	#1
mattro Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: henrietta, ny Age: 32 Posts: 478 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	What the fuckkkk!!!!!!!!!! so im tq'ing my head back on after a LONG and tedious "build" and one of my head bolts WILL NOT TQ DOWN. and b4 anyone can say it, i followed FSM tq procedure TO THE LETTER. only when i try to tq to 105 from 70 do i have a problem, (arp tq to 105 in 3 equal steps. 35, 70, 105.) i swear to god ill part my car out now if somone even utters the word "stripped" remember, it tq's to 70. but not 105. also, all the other nuts have no problem going to 105, just the second from the front exhaust side.

08-04-2009, 04:15 PM	#2
Sileighty_85 Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Misawa, Japan Posts: 6,815 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	what do you mean wont tourqe down? like still spinning? or wont go all the way down? __________________ 後輪駆動車１番 1989 Built SR GT2871R -363whp 1998 S14 W/RB25- 250ish (For Now) 1986 SR86 - 200ish 1990 R32 GTR - 320hp Don't Buy Engines from JDM-Online http://zilvia.net/f/businesses/207457-jdm-online.html Don't Buy XS-Power or SSAC Shit

08-04-2009, 05:00 PM	#6
Sileighty_85 Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Misawa, Japan Posts: 6,815 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	talk to a machine shop maybe they can helicoil it?? never delt with this problem before __________________ 後輪駆動車１番 1989 Built SR GT2871R -363whp 1998 S14 W/RB25- 250ish (For Now) 1986 SR86 - 200ish 1990 R32 GTR - 320hp Don't Buy Engines from JDM-Online http://zilvia.net/f/businesses/207457-jdm-online.html Don't Buy XS-Power or SSAC Shit

08-04-2009, 05:29 PM	#10
4sfed180 Zilvia Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: vernon hills Age: 35 Posts: 224 Trader Rating: (7) Feedback Score: 7 reviews	to drill and tap it he still has to, at least, pull the head off. try to take the stud out again. be careful but forceful. maybe thats not the right choice of words but i hope you get it. good luck and post some pics. Edit: posted a few secs after you did. the bolt went into plastic deformation. i dont thing you can use an allen wrench on top any more. get a stud extractor tool and pull it out. sent this pictures to ARP and have them send you a new one. __________________ I build air pumps!

08-04-2009, 05:34 PM	#11
Azimmer Leaky Injector Join Date: May 2009 Location: sacramento Age: 32 Posts: 101 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	stripped ahahahahaha __________________ LoW BuDgEt DrIfTeR

08-04-2009, 04:36 PM	#4
zylvia213 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: LOST ANGELES Posts: 1,975 Trader Rating: (36) Rides Gallery: zylvia213 Feedback Score: 36 reviews	have you unscrewed it out? If you have is it hard when unscrewing? If the thread is stripped on the block then you would automaticly see it on the head bolt cause pieces of the thread itself will end up on the head bolt. I know in some cars theres short and long bolts.... maybe your using one thats too short???? As you are torquing that one bolt does it just spin like freely or is it kinda tight?

08-04-2009, 05:14 PM	#8
smink Zilvia Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: wv Age: 34 Posts: 176 Trader Rating: (11) Feedback Score: 11 reviews	ARP makes 10mm blot kits and 11mm bolt kits for the head. If it is stripped, which sure sounds like thats the case, you could get the 11mm kit and have your block drilled and tapped for the 11mm's. Which is kinda good, because then you can up the boost with less worries.

08-04-2009, 05:35 PM	#12
mattro Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: henrietta, ny Age: 32 Posts: 478 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	yea i will be doing that, and i figured about the allen lol, im so happy i kept my cool and dint punch somthing. whew, glad thats over.

08-04-2009, 05:57 PM	#13
smink Zilvia Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: wv Age: 34 Posts: 176 Trader Rating: (11) Feedback Score: 11 reviews	Wow...ARP for the lose, at least this round.

08-04-2009, 06:26 PM	#14
TheWolf Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Orange Park, FL (Jax) Posts: 1,468 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Get used to it.. ARP moved production facilities to china about 6 months ago. Alot of racers have found this out. as for the stud in the block... you'll need this http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=94640 __________________ Eye on the Prize

08-04-2009, 09:06 PM	#16
steve shadows Post Whore! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: LA and OC Posts: 8,202 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	It looks like you did not follow instructions properly or you are using extremely USED equipment __________________ Like Me on FaceBook !

08-04-2009, 11:06 PM	#17
username Zilvia Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Florida Age: 31 Posts: 207 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	You could just put 2 nuts on the top set of threads, tighten them together, then use a wrench on the bottom nut to turn the stud out.

08-05-2009, 01:25 AM	#18
atutt Zilvia Addict Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: barrie, ontario, canada Age: 35 Posts: 997 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Plasma cutter solves all lifes little problems... Neighbours dog being a dick and won't shut up? Take a plasma cutter to his toe.... I'd be calling up ARP and bitching like a 13 year old school girl who just found out her b/f made out with her 16 year old sister.

08-05-2009, 06:56 AM	#19
Nissan_Power Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kaz Age: 41 Posts: 14 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	so...if ARP cant be trusted no more, what company makes good, reliable studs ???

08-05-2009, 03:54 PM	#20
jr_ss Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pa Posts: 6,052 Trader Rating: (34) Feedback Score: 34 reviews	For starters, you're trqing the ARP's way too high. 4 even steps to 80ftlbs on the ARP's. 20-40-60-80, done. 105 is not the right number you need to be going to. There have been multiple people that have done this/gotten the wrong information in their packets and have broke and/or stretched them doing this. __________________ My SR20VET

08-05-2009, 03:58 PM	#21
steve shadows Post Whore! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: LA and OC Posts: 8,202 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	You should not be torquing them past 75 ftl ls period... they are studs not bolts, they work differently and better __________________ Like Me on FaceBook !

08-05-2009, 09:54 PM	#26
jr_ss Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pa Posts: 6,052 Trader Rating: (34) Feedback Score: 34 reviews	If they were meant to go to 105, I don't think they would stretch like it did Steve. I have never heard of going over 80lbs with ARP's in the SR application. __________________ My SR20VET

08-06-2009, 05:01 AM	#28
spartanmisfit Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: East Lansing, Michigan Posts: 1,332 Trader Rating: (18) Feedback Score: 18 reviews	I had a similar problem with my dsm a few years back. It ended up being that my block was warped.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode