No Face

I just replaced the factory t28 with an Isis Rs3871 on my redtop sr20. I thought that I would just be able to tune my car after this but it turns our my ECU is factory. I was told that I need to get a new ECU but I don't really have the money for an Apexi Power FC. What do you guys recommend I go with?

Mikester

Put the factory turbo back on and save up for a Power FC.

You could also check out Nistune, JWT and Enthalpy- they are all generally cheaper options... Prob with that is you get a "canned" tune; whereas with a Power FC, you can get a dyno tune that is specific to your car (not just your mods).

SAFC is complete garbage. Don't let anyone talk you into one.

With an aftermarket turbine, your best bet is an actual tune. There is also Megasquirt and also an AEM unit IIRC...

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No Face

thanks a bunch i guess I'll just save up

4x4le

You dont get a canned tune with nistune, you have to tune it still.

jamg

why is SAFC garbage? i was told that ecu rom tunes leave out many external factors when it comes to actually using it.

4x4le

Safc only alters your maf signal which depending on the way the ecu is tuned, may or may not be able to get your fuel where it needs to be. Even if it does you have no control over timing which is the most important part of your tune, and not only do you not have control over it, it alters it on its own usually for the worse.

The statment about rom tuning is not true if the car is actually custom tuned in person on a dyno by a tuner. If you get a jwt mail order tune or something of that nature, it is just guesswork.

jamg

so i would need a chipped ECU, to control fuel management, and a SAFC to control air flow?

4x4le

no, a tuned ecu can and will handle it all. Safc does not belong on a nissan due to the way the computer works in the first place.

fliprayzin240sx

You can get a mailed rom tune, where you send your ECU out to get modded and tuned for your setup, then use a SAFC to fine tune it since all rom tunes are usually rich. That would be the only time I would tell people to use a SAFC, just to trim the fuel map a bit.

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jamg

i figured this...

but apexi Power FC are around $800 or so used.

i dont want to spend that much on something that i dont necessarily need.

project-c2

Nistune!!!!

96Turbo

you do necessarily need it unless you like melting pistons and rebuilding engines

find a local tuner with a decent repuatation and some experience tuning nissan engines. ask them what type of hardware they prefer using, and go with that. nistune is a great option if you know someone who can tune it (or you're daring/smart enough to street tune it yourself)

jamg

i was talking about getting a power FC when i stated that i dont necessarily need it.

but yeah, a SAFC and ecu tune is essentially the only other option.

4x4le

The cheapest option that is fully tunable and fully capable of handling even more power than that turbo is able to make is nistune.

Other options that are good and will suit your needs and even more is nismotronic, power fc, aem ems, haltech, megasquirt, and even standard daughter boards as long as they are tuned live for your car (such as a plms board)
The best thing to do is find out who in your area is a good tuner and get what type of tuning solution they prefer. All of these will deliver the same results as long as you have a competent tuner doing the programming.
A bad tune can and will blow your engine, its not just a matter of having a custom tune done on the dyno making a few more hp as opposed to what you can do with a street tune or a tune with a safc or some mail ordered tune, it is a matter of a competent tuner being able to tune your car on a dyno and focus on whats important and get it right the first time so you dont have to rebuild your engine and go through the process of getting tuned a 2nd time.

iRideFBMSR20det

Nistune ftw!!!
I had a safc on my car with the stock injectors, spec r turbo, z32 maf & fuel filter, and a wal bro fuel pump. Worked good. I was Making 240whp VARY safe
I did 550cc injectors and got a nistune. Way better! But it can get pricy.

jamg

can anyone tell me why there is a need to have a Z32 MAF?

this guy had a RB25, with a Z32 MAF, and he was only running a SAFC neo.

I have a T28 equivalent turbo, 555 injectors, and Z32 MAF. can i do the piggyback that he's doing?

4x4le

They are a good maf for tuning with, they have a high hp capability.

Sure go do the piggyback thingy, if it dont work out for you you can then spend more money doing it right and maybe even get to rebuild your motor because of it.

People used to use fmu's too and it worked for allot of people, and also took out allot of engines as well. There are better methods now and there is no reason to spend the money on parts for your engine to make it go fast and then tie it all together with a junky tuning solution. Your timing is more important than air fuel ratio and a safc allows you to get your afr right at the cost of screwing up your timing.

jamg

Problem is this, spend 300 on a nistune, 200 on a reflash, and 200 on a SAFC.
Then get it tuned.
Or get a power FC for roughly 700, and tune the car.

Im trying to find the cost effective way to do this.

Boost_Fiend

Megasquirt has a new plug and play unit for the sr and ka. Its around 850. I'm thinking about getting it. I have emanage right now and its trash. Stay away from piggy back units.

Mikester

I ran a PFC with 850cc injectors, Walbro & Z32 with the stock T25... Made 280- very safe

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4x4le

Get safc out of your head, they dont belong on a nissan. With nistune you dont do "reflashes", its a tuneable ecu just like powerfc and power fc has no real advantage over nistune unless you consider going map sensor an advantage. Putting a safc on top of nistune makes no since because you can make any adjustment you need to with nistune. I just tuned a rb25det with it today. Nothing but a nistune board, running on e85, 340lph pump, 4bar fuel pressure, 6 id1000 injectors z32 maf and a HUGE turbo (cannot remember what the specs on it). If it can handle that isis turbo.

Your fuel injectors on the otherhand (if stock) are not going to support more air.

Edit: just notice your not the op, so just read it that way

jamg

i haven't looked into nistune... but what you are saying is-

it's a tuneable ECU, meaning the tuner will be able to tune the car to whatever specs? i would only need a laptop, the program, and the data cable to see live results of what my car is doing?

what's map sensor?

so as i'm driving, i can hook my laptop to a nistune, and see what my engine is doing as i'm driving?

i have 555 injectors

4x4le

Yea, thats exactly what it is.

And a map sensor is manifold air pressure or manifold absolute pressure. (same thing).
Tuning on some systems worrys about pressure instead of flow.

AsleepAltima

i have had jwt on both my sr and ka and its truly plug and play. lots of 240's out there running on jwt ecu's with very little problems.

4x4le

and then there are the ones that didnt work, and their chips are filling up 5 gallon buckets at our shop when they got replaced by nistune boards.

AsleepAltima

im sure it goes both ways.

4x4le

That would depend on who tuned the nistune board. We dont mail out tunes because that is not an acceptable way of tuning. We do do live tunes though and there is no problems with that. I have nothing but satisfied customers personally.


We have had boards that didnt work before but since they get tested before they leave the customer never knew and it was replaced with a working one and shipped out. This is uncommon but does happen with electronics from time to time.

4x4le

Standing up for a company that has less than $50 in having a board stamped out, an hour labor in installing it and testing it, and a tune that took them a few hours to test and tune that is then replicated and put on thousands of boards and then sold to people for $500 a pop and causes damage to 10% of their customers engines just isnt something I would be putting my neck out there to do. There are enough real tuners almost everywhere that can give people proper dyno tuned results for a similar enough price. Mail order tuners are con artists imo.

Do you know how much money I could make doing this? I could make a living off of it, stay at home all the time and it would be the easiest work I could ever imagine. BUT IM BETTER THAN THAT. Ill keep working so I dont have to look in the mirror and see a scumbag.

AsleepAltima

i wasnt totally picking on nistune, im just saying that im sure theres quite a few of each different choice filling up someones bucket.

4x4le

Sure, i didnt really see it that way. There are people that curse standalones and the reason is that they either didnt know how to tune it or they got someone that dont know how to tune, do the tune.
Or their car was going to blow up either way due to some mechanical part and they curse the tuner.

I tend to feel as if tuning is something that many people understand in no way shape or form, they hear of some having success with mail order tunes and or safc's and then think they are doing something wrong when they dont work when in fact they are just not as lucky as the last guy. The existance of safc's and canned tunes make it hard for a real tuner to justify their price and $225/hr for a tune is something that many will not do although when you have a $70k dyno or lots of tuning equipment that wears out and breaks and needs replaced and repaired and cords get shut in doors so the prices being charged really need to be higher but there would be no customers then.

You can really make a killing though if you rip people off, and that is how I see mail order tunes.