hobbs

Proof. Let's see some REAL proof, let's see some side by side dyno's with the same setups, until then you have no proof to say the VE head is better than the BTCC head. Until you have some solid proof, gtfo.

STR8E180

Are u serious ?
One has shaft mounted rocker arms and the other one doesn't
One has VVL and The other one doesn't
It's not hard to work out which cylinder head is going to perform better

Shaft mounts rocker arms and VVL should already be enough to work out which one is the more reliable and more responsive cylinder head

That's enough proof for me

jr_ss

All this bickering could be solved by throwing the BTCC head on a flow bench that uses H2O.

As far as reliability in high horsepower setups, perhaps it would go to the VE for the reasons stated by Str8e180. It's all speculation until numbers are produced from the BTCC motor setup.

Teigen- relax man, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. This is the Internet and you need some thicker skin if you want to function on it.

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ForeignMuscle

Hobbs, It's not proof. It's common sense.

I don't have to keep repeating what str8e180 said. No one is trying to trash the OP's thread. It was just friendly conversation until people started getting butt hurt and defensive. Go cry if you can't handle ideas different from your own.

Once again, I love this build. Sad that people are such little bitches that we all have to worship/criticize the same as the person next to us or people cry.

91white_ka

The morons in this thread need to shut up and stop comparing cheap factory cast heads to an actual race engine. Nobody cares what you people are saying, viewers are checkin out this thread to see something cool and rare with quality parts. Not to listen to some vaginas crying about how their everyday, ordinary crap compares to everything else.

ForeignMuscle

Shut the fuck up. VVL head is real "everyday" huh? And both of the heads are "cheap, factory cast" from aluminum. Thank you for proving your stupidity. You have no knowledge of anything in this thread, but nice try. Keep looking at the pictures and dreaming...

hobbs

It seems your dyno graphs you posted are not showing up, you may want to re-post them.

Actually a VE is a everyday motor, you do have to remember outside of the N1/VET motors they came in a 3,100lb CVT equipped family sedan.

ForeignMuscle

You're right hobbs, it isn't rare like the btcc. Can't argue that. I don't want this guy running off because of all the nonsense anyways. The btcc head is awesome just because of what it is. Look forward to seeing some updates OP..

STR8E180

Precision 6262 .63 exhaust housing
Still a 2L

33psi
E85
8800 rpm
Standard cams

It actually made more power
Max the turbo out at 44psi and the engine made 621kw

STR8E180

LOL this thread was good conversation until every one started crying

hobbs

Maybe I missed it, BTCC head with the same setup, I know you have a dyno for that one aswell.

STR8E180

Flow charts taken from a modified P11 cylinder head

Sr20ve flow chart from modified cylinder head bigger valves and port work
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x...veheadflow.jpg

Sr20ve standard ports
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/g...s/DSC_0008.jpg

Sr20ve modified with bigger valves and port work
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/g...DSC03190-1.jpg

Keep in mind this is just flow
Nearly 400 cfm!!!
Still take into account the shaft mounted rocker arms and VVL

STR8E180

Geezz some people don't have any common sense

Anyways looking forward for updates and the finish product

hobbs

You have zero proof on flow rates for the BTCC head, nor do you have a simular dyno graph with a BTCC head. Your points are moot.

STR8E180

Yeah righto mate your a true hero
Dunno why you had to get so defensive this was a good thread until cry babies got defensive

hobbs

Not defensive at all, just pointing out that what you state is fact is purely just your opinion, you have no data to backup your claims that a VE head is better than a BTCC prepped head. Once you're able to provide some solid flow data or dyno graphs it will just remain your opinion.


I'm actually a big fan of the VE motor coming from the P chasis crowd but you treat this motor like it's god gift to humanity, theres a reason why Nissan spent thousands upon thousands of dollars on production and R&D on the BTCC primera and continued to use the DE and not the VE motor design.

STR8E180

It might have some thing to do with restrictions in that form of motor sport it was used in

I think it is gods gift to the sr20's

hobbs

Doubt those restrictions had anything to do with the use of VVL seeing as there were multipul teams using honda B series vtec motors.

Care to try again?

STR8E180

No conversions? I dunno I'm just guessing
I know I would rather have my rocker arms mounted on a shaft that's for sure
Dunno about overseas but here in group a racing we arnt allowed any conversions
Cars must run the exact same engine the car came from factory with but you are allowed to modify it as much as U like
But no force induction on cars that didnt come standard with force Induction

Other then that I'm all out of guesses I don't see why they wouldn't use a ve head over a btcc
I would love to know myself

Care to try again ? ---- no need to be a smart ass about it mate

jr_ss

You guys are arguing over stupid shit... The BTCC Janspeed head is not and was not available to the masses. Who gives a shit which one is better. This guy jumped on a chance of a lift time to own a rare, RACE proven head and is doing something with it, rather than putting it on a shelf. Quit shitting on his thread.

I would like to see flow bench numbers on the Janspeed head. Teigen, what year was your head pulled from? It seems that the 98-99' BTCC heads/motors were the golden ticket setup with the previous years being less powerful. They also switched the head around putting the intake side towards the front of the car and the exhaust exiting on the opposite side.

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bc.

I imagine his head will have the intake in the back, right? Otherwise how would you get it to work in RWD??

hobbs and STR8E180, please stop arguing, you are gonna scare away the OP and nobody will get what they want.

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hobbs

Only the early BTCC primeras where reverse flow, from his pictures you can see that the intake ports are on the 'correct' side of the head.

codyace

Nice seeing the updates brother! Keep em coming!


However guys, something really needs to be addressed below. I can understand the positives and negatives being presented here, but there some glaringly obvious things that no one is addressing to those in the VE camp here. I do not think your comments are wrong STR8E, but there needs to be a more objective look at the situation on your end.

The valve train is generally more failsafe on the VVL setup, but in normal operation (ie: not misshifting, or over revvin) it (to me) isn't clear cut to work any better nor worse than the standard style head. Think of how many dopey owners drove SE-R's/NX's/ throughout the 10 years+ they were offered here, without issue (with many of them going 150K miles+!!)

Sure the shaft mount/roller setup is nice, but that system also came in COMMUTER type cars. Not race cars. So while the system in general is more robust (one can't deny the shaft mounted sytem), it will not stand heavy RPM abuse with a spring change. With that said there are many guys who ran DE heads to huge RPM for years without any issues too. Maybe not 13,000 rpm like you say some do, but those heads are far from stock as well, and IMO a bit unfair to compare them directly, especially to a head that has different guides and lifters undoubtedly as well (roller rocker engines having better lifters as it is).

Atop of that, I'm not sure how anyone can generally just say which head is better without seeing flow bench numbers on the two heads. And even with that said, a flow bench doesn't automatically mean it makes more power either, just that it can move more air. Bigger isn't better.


Do you think the head makes the difference here, or the 700+whp that it is claimed to make? I'd find it hard to beleive that where that car makes power/powerband, that it's any different than a DE head at that point.

Ever think that they all use VE heads as they are more common and cheaper than a head only produced 34 times? I mean the pricepoint here has a TON of 'play' sort to speak here. If I was running a heavy duty drag car, I'd want something I can easily find a spare/replacement for, of which, a BTCC head is not.

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Road2Perfection

Read below, P10 BTCC
The P11 BTCC head had reversed intake side ports, I want that LHD car.. RHD design...
Master cylinder is right next to the turbo on LHD, enough of that.
The most successfull BTCC cars were the P11's, the main change was just switching side of ports, and thats the easiest way to differ the two, or the rockercover on this has SR20 written on it, flat on the top, the P11 was more round and no text on it, had Nissan Power written on the coilcover.

the VE head was not avaiable at the time of BTCC P10 ERA.
2ndly. BTCC does not allow VCT, VVL.
First introduction of this was in 1997, this BTCC head is ~1990-1995/96

The reason why VTEC, Nissan NEO VVL, VE and so on is completely absent in racing is cause VERY few manufactures have it, and it's a unfair advantage when it's patented and licence costs and all that.
They do not bend for Nissan and Honda vs the rest.

However, doesnt change how impressive this head is, ports MATCH what a VE head has, and I doubt any redtops, DE, other non VVL/VCT 2.2 engines will match it's performance.
that leaves us with the VE engine and FC20 (very unsure how honda's perform over 600 whp, but up to that it's for sure a breeze)?

VCT= Variable cam Timings.
VVL = Variable Valve Lift and Timing

VVL is VE and VCT is notchtop DE

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slideslidegnarslide

Lol talking about vtec and vvl being good for racing? Are you guys dumb? Vtec isnt in racing because its to keep your car streetable and economical. Vtec and anything like it is to keep car economical and street able. You gain low end torque because your on a lower cam profile. But you'll never be in those Rpms in racing. Systems like this are only good because your car can be completely normal at idle and street driving but has a race profile cam for high rpm. That's why people eliminate vtec...... Race profile cam all the time. No one has ever heard of vtec killer cams. all you have to do is put in a cam that has the same profile as the lobe in vtec or other systems and bam, the system is useless. Because the gains of a normal cam are only seen in rpm that you'll never be in at the track. All you guys started a huge argument on this guys build thread for no reason. Who care if the head doesn't flow as much. He will still make way more power than any of us. This poor guy gets on the forums and blasted by people that have no proof of the claims they are making and clearly doesn't understand that vtec and systems like that are not for racing. They are for street cars. I don't care which head flows better at all. All I'm saying is vvl and systems like it have no place in racing and because they are pointless. Unless you want a street car. I'd love for this guy to come back and continue ONE OF THE NICEST BUILD THREADS ON ZILVIA but we can't handle that. Cause we need to cry about why some guy half way around the world didn't choose what head "you" wanted him to use. Oh boohoo

And actually guy above me they do allow vtec in a lot of forms of racing. Watch road racing. There's a class that the new si does really well in.

Mannykiller

Now this is just awesome!! Gotta love your inginuity and resourcefulness!!!! Excellent Job!!! keep it up!

Teigen

23.01.2013 Update:

Whats been done is no major things, rather the smaller things that often is the "time stealers" on a project, in order to make it perfect.

First thing I can tell about (already posted a picture) is that I painted the Valvecover Gold Wrinkle, which I found to be a nice contrast to a black whrinkle plenum and turbo.



About the plenum/ Air intake setup I will get back to that in a later post, but I can tell that it's going to be some customized stuff made to work together with my custom cams and the turbo.

Also I will run 2 sets of injectors, that make it a total of 8 fuel injectors.
This will be ran sequential and is truly only some "nazi" setup from my side to try to make a more stable low RPM as the cams isn't of the "Kind" type.

I am going to place the second fuelrail below the plenum, that would most likely be some ID2200 injectors, and the top fuelrail between the ports and ITB's is going to be some 740cc~ size injectors. This is going to be tight as the room for a second set of injectors is very limited. That is why I am placing them on the downside of the runners.

The plenum is based off a ex-WRC class A Nissan car which I got my hands on after 6 months of searching for it in the US. I do the aluminium welding and such myself so things go a little slow as I am the only person working on this project ( I dont trust others to touch my baby lol)


Another thing that actually took me more time then expected was to make a adjustable mount for the altenator.


Made of aircraft steel ofc

Failed when making it as I forgot the more "plan" based mounting, I was thinking of using the same spot as used in the BTCC cars, the frostplug on the head. anyway it would just hit my Oilfilter which I forgot.


Did a little polish and opened it and put some castrol grease inside and mounted it



Besides this I got the holes drilled for my dual waterpump setup and they are now mounted, I forgot to take a picture but I will do that tomorrow.




Here is a picture of a Volvo 16v head that We are working on, this I'm placing on my brothers B230FK in his "retro" Volvo 240 car. Flowed pretty good for this head, ports are exactly 50mm <--> Welded som on the inside to make the curb better in the future this is also going to be close to 1000whp.






Here is a picture from before christmas when I check turbo clearance to bonnet/hood w/e proper english word would be



"and with that bombshell I say see you next time" or something (Topgear)

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91white_ka

Fuck you sir, and your cries for attention. You aren't as cool as the guy with a piece of race history. Just get over it. Yes the vvl head is "everyday" anybody can buy one for cheap, or the whole motor for that matter. In fact there a whole neo motor sitting in my shop right now. By cheap factory casting I mean it's simply a stock head that is plentiful.

I don't know what the "looking at pictures" comment has to do with anything. Only difference is you are in here trying to convince everyone you know something and telling the op why he should build the car you like instead of what he would like.

To the op I enjoy seeing new stuff, keep up the good work. Sorry for the clutter in your thread.

Teigen

Was about writing an update now, but as the clock is 2 in the morning here, i*m gonna hit the bed, and to this update tomorrow morning.

Will be about rewelding the exhaust mani for Dual 44MM tial, Making the brace for the gearbox, rollcage, Sellholm Sequential gearbox and some other goodis, peace

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Teigen

Here is yet another delayed update from past mods on the little Nissan baby





Been having a nice weekend @ the garage, sad thing is that I did a lot more work on my m8's cars then my own D':

I'm starting this update with what I have been doing to my Silvia.

The turbo manifold was made for a single 60mm wg, but I'm not into having that set-up. After a few mins spent talking with my airflow/dynamics mate the choice was a dual 44mm set-up. No larger work on the manifold to make this either, as it's a good twinscroll mani it already had outtake for WG @ both sides so i just cut the merge and inserted a new bend and also welded a plate over the opening where i cut the y-merge.

I've ordered 2 x Tial 44mm Watercooled WGs like this one






not done welding but when I am I will put of pictures of the manifold.


Another thing I finished to my car was the holding brace for the gearbox. Actually wasnt up for doing it but somehow I found motivation at 03 in the morning when I was about leaving for the night lol.

After some measurements and checking out some different solutions, I figured it would be the best to just work on the OEM gearbox brace. Used that as a sketch and reinforced it a lot and welded a new 4mm plate on top to drill new holes for the bolts from the TREMEC gearbox.











I was lucky and drilled the holes and only missed with 1mm! Didn't use any measurement tools, just memorizing how it looked and got lucky lol.

MIG welded this brace as I dont have any gas for steel on the TIG welder, only Argon gas for aluminium. Weld looked ok to me even tho I would say welding aluminium is my "main"




___


Had to do some welding for my brother in his Oldschool Volvo 242 1978'. As the new engine is going to be about 800whp the old granny need some help in the rear end (lol), so I welded on some plates to make a "wattlink". I told him to clean and stip it down to the metal where i was about welding but he didn't care as he mostly gives a f*ck about things :P




Weld fuges got full of oil and rustprotecting coatings so it is looking really "nasty" Anyway, no holes in the weld so it will hold, but if it was my car I would never had anything looking nearly as ugly as this!



I also found a Sellholm MPG x-trac sequential gearbox from a Ford RS500 Cosworth, only used for 10 hours nice with a 400whp car so it's as good as new. Told my brother to buy it asap!


Had to congratualte him to be the first of us to get a proper seq. gearbox! But I guess (and hope) He will have to congratulate me with being the fist one to reach a 1k whp hihi

The gearbox is about 24k USD priced when new, got it for 13k so it was a real killerdeal! Guess who's automatically had to make a new gearbox brace and bearings

____



My mate here, who is a drifter asked me if he could have his car in my garage and here it is. 180sx with a 340whp SR20, some forged internals but stock cylinderhead/cams/intake and a t28bb turbo.



Going to be a fun drifiting car. At the moment I was asked to prepare it for SNowdriving @ Rudskogen racetrack in norway 16th of february, going to be fun

If I made the car ready I would get the most driving he promised
things I have to do is:
Mount coilovers
Wire his Adaptronic
Mount Driftworks Knuckles
Mount Oilcooler and relocator
Make exhaust
Make Turbo inlet so airfilter is in front of car
Mount brake disks and calipers
Wire up the brake system (car is mostly stripped)
Mount gearbox
Mount gauges and instruments
Make a battary placement in the rear and wire the main electricity to alternator, starter etc
Weld a brace for fastening seats.
Woah! going to be a ruch but not inpossible





Finishing off this update with a little picture from my car (which still needs some serious love)


Peace!

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