thx247

My goal with my current 240sx is 350hp, via KAT.

Coming into this type of project I have NO experince tuning. None whatsoever. I am of reasonable intelligence, I have patience, I know when to lurk on the forums, and when to ask questions. I also have another daily driver to get me to work and back. I've got tools I either own or can rent, and a garage to work in.

Taking all that into perspective: What would you guys suggest I do when it comes to building my engine-- Should I make my first turbo project goals small? Or is it feasible that I buy all the parts I need to make my goal of 350rwhp, and shoot for the moon.

I would rather buy parts to make 350rwhp once, instead of doing what many other people seem to do which is slowly build up a monster car, selling parts as they become less than usefull. (upgrading injectors, turbo, SMIC to FMIC...piping.. etc etc)

What do you guys think? Is it possible to jump right into the deep end of the pool or should I play in the shallow end and try to learn to swim where my feet can still touch the ground?

240racer

with no experience the easiest way for you to do this project is to order a nsport or fmax kit that is for 350hp (stage 3 or whatever) and get the JWT ecu to control everything. I would simply call JWT and ask them what you need to purchase and then just do that. As much as I personnally don't use JWT, in your case I think it's the best way. The other option of course is to have somebody else do all the work, you just bring your money and car to them and tell them what you want, that way you don't have to know anything. There should be plenty of shops in CA that can handle that task.
In general you will need:
larger turbo t3/t4 or something similar
good FMIC, probably better then the basic fmax or nsport ones
good fuel system, 50lb inj, walbro pump, etc.
forged internals built by a good engine builder
JWT ecu
you may need cams, you probably should get the JWT cams
You may also want to consider nitrous, mostly because it can cool your intake charge and make that more consistant, but also because it is a good easy way to boost the power up a little, especially if you already have a built motor to handle it.
this will probably cost about $10,000 unless you can personally shortcut things.

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Adam
'89 coupe KA24DE+T
14.1 @ 104 MPH

'88 Celica All-Trac turbo
stock, but no more ecu codes!!

SRKperformance

i totally agree with the above in this case. If you lived around here i think i could get the damn bitch to make 400 hp but that would be on some beautiful 550 cc injectors and a little c16 mixed in. Ecu upgrade is the way to go, dont get an afc or standalone unless you know how to tune one, maybe later youll learn, its fun! The ka's rods are about as strong as the sr20dets or an l28s but the crank is a little less strong and the pistons arent very turbo friendly. You can however do a good 300-350 hp system on a stock ka as long as you take care of fuel and tuning issues and if your a novice jwt is prolly the best way to go. I dont believe in kits but if you dont have buddies who can hook u up on custom parts the kit is the way for you.

thx247

Thanks for your replies.

I don't believe in kits either. I think there are too expensive for what you get, and if something goes wrong you don't have the experince enough to diagnose the problem because you didn't build the kit yourself.

I like to talk for my money and not let the money talk for itself. So me giving my car to someone and tossing them my credit card is not going to happen either. What I really wanted to know was, if your an intelligent and patient individual, can you build a 350hp car without having to learn by building in little increments. I really dont want to have to buy parts that I later wont be able to use.

I was thinking about stand alone engine management anyway, just because of the efficiency factor. Obviously I would have to learn as much as I could about tuning, yet also pay someone to tune it for me. Tuning is an art I know I could just not pickup a book on and learn.

SRKperformance

take a vacation down here this summer and we can set up a turbo system on it

thx247

in all seriousness me spending some quality time with a good tuner is more than likely to happen.

misnomer

Definitely get some literature, Maximum Boost is the veritable bible on turbocharging cars. Read up and find out what exactly you want to do before you start buying things.

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Rowsdower saves us and saves all the world!

thx247

it is a good book. I have read it already. What im asking is yes or no on me trying to build a 350hp car without ever building a smaller one before taking into account all the other stuff i said before.

AceInHole

Just a "few" comments to just throw some stuff out there:

Larger goal = greater risk.

In this case I'd say you'd want to get rid of any questionable peices... basically going with something that you KNOW will work. Otherwise, you're putting your engine at a greater risk, trusting unknown components in some unknown combination to it.

If you want to save some money and don't mind spending the extra (a lot of extra) time, than maybe building up your own kit will do. Going with a manufacturer's kit (NSport or FMax for instance) takes out the guess work you'd have to figure out, and will save you time by starting you with something proven to work.

As for:
They're expensive because of the R&D (and profit one would assume) put into them. You're getting something that's been proven to work.... saving a lot of headaches and guesswork might be worth the extra cost. As for diagnosing the problem because you didn't build the kit yourself.... that would really only be the case if you let someone else install it. Who says you can't buy a kit and install it yourself? With a home-grown project, you're not exactly "making" the kit, you're more putting together peices for a kit. The only difference between the manufacturer's kit and yours is that you select your own components.

It really comes down to you though.... If you want to take the time and peice together a turbo for yourself than that's completely up to you. It's definitely possible to get it to work.... and really there isn't much difference in building a "smaller" turbo kit compared to a "larger" turbo kit, other than the size of the injectors, turbocharger, and possibly intercooler. Seriously, lots of people start by making kits capable of handling well over 350hp (even if their engine isn't). All they need is to set the wastegate to a lower boost when testing it all out. Take Jeff240sx for instance.... he started with a large turbo capable of your power goals (IIRC), and he wasn't necessarily stuck having to sell injectors for larger ones (although now might be a different story...).

What it seems like, though, is you're in a rush to get to 350hp. IMO, if you are, a kit such as the FMax turbo kit would be your best bet. In such a case you could install the kit yourself, and set the boost accordingly. If you decide to build up your own kit, definitely take your time and make sure you're getting the right components, and be aware that headaches will almost DEFINITELY pop up when having things fabricated for your project.

Good luck!

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thx247

Well Im not in a rush, I just dont really want to be buying parts that I won't be needing later on ya know?

Thats a good point about the wastegate and stuff though. I hadn't thought about that.

s13rookie

it all comes down to YOU. if you have the money to throw down to doo it all at once, great, do it. if you are like the rest of us that scrape together a few bucks out of our paycheck every week to mod something, hey, we feel ya. ideally we would all like to do everything at once, but money is the key. hell, i would have an 800+ kat or sr if i had the money, but i dont. do you have the loot to do it all at once? if you do great, do it it the most baddass you can. if not, you have 2 options, slowly put together a monster kit piece by piece, and wait till it is all complete till you can feel the differance, or start small, buy what you need to make your car boost and boost RIGHT, than over time, slowly upgrade your boost limiting factors, as money will allow, if your turbo will support 15# boost, but your injectors will only do 12, replace them when you can.

im just rambling, but what im trying to say is: i wish i cou;ld do all of my car mods at once, im not rich so i cant, i have to do them part by part, but i think it is better to have 10psi boost in a car now, than to have 15psi of boost sitting on an engine stand in your garage waiting for a year


a little boost is better than no boost


sorry about my rambling, too many beers tonight

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Ive spent most of my money on cars and women...the rest i wasted

thx247

no worries. im not loaded either. I just dont want to sink extra costs intot he project by getting parts i will later on replace.

240racer

ok I will make a small list of things not to buy so you don't have to replace them later.
Don't buy:
injectors smaller then 550cc/min
(if you do, you can just sell them though, since the market is staying the same)
turbo smaller then T3/T4
any intercooler besides the biggest one you want
any piggy back fuel controllers that you plan on replacing with a stand alone later.

you already stated the things you want, so don't buy something else, it's not a difficult concept. YOu don't need to worry about buying the wrong thing, because there is a prescribed list of parts that you need to make 350rwhp and if you buy something that's not on that list, then you will have to sell it later. You certainly don't need a stand alone to make 350rwhp. However, you will still need to tune your car even if you get the JWT ecu, which means piggy back fuel controllers. So decide if you want to go stand alone and remember that means you need to buy a system (at least $1500) and then you need to find somebody that knows how to tune them so you can either have them do it or learn from them. Tuning is going to be a continious process and that means not only lots of dyno time, but also lots of street time figuring out part throttle and response and all that stuff.

There isn't anything preventing you from jumping into a project that has a goal of 350rwhp vs. 240rwhp. Both require following a set plan and not pushing it when it's not ready. The main difference between the two is the initial investment. 240rwhp is like $4000 away and 350 is more like $10,000 away.
I have a pretty basic turbo setup on my car, however, the only thing that I "wasted" my money on for now has been the 370cc/min inj (which I can sell) and all the misc hardware that I used to get the kit together cheaply, but will need to be replaced as I wick up the boost. However, I think I spent less then $100 on the misc stuff so in the whole scheme of things it's really a drop in a bucket.

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Adam
'89 coupe KA24DE+T
14.1 @ 104 MPH

'88 Celica All-Trac turbo
stock, but no more ecu codes!!