Var

To any of you guys that didnt believe me about downhill touge driving technique

from www.d1gp.com





History of Drifting

The Japanese towns of Rokkosan, Hakone, Irohazaka, and various hill climbs in Nagano are all steeped in legends of the origins of drifting. No one can really pinpoint drifting's actual birthplace but the movement started in the mid 1960s. Like many forms of professional racing today, the modern interpretation of drifting evolved from a form of illegal street racing held on windy mountain roads called touge (pronounced toe-geh). Touge was practiced by extremely dedicated enthusiasts known as rolling zoku (pronounced zoe-koo) whose only goal was to trim precious milliseconds off their time between two points.

Eventually, some of these rolling zoku began to adopt driving techniques used by rally drivers, techniques to clear a corner quickly without sacrificing too much momentum. As touge drivers started to emulate the rally racers' techniques, they discovered that not only did their driving performance and times improve, the rush was much more intense. From touge, drifting was born.

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Hi

KiDyNomiTe

What about dirt oval track things over here.

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PROCEED
Grip Gambler

JagdStealth

Dirt Oval racing was drifting in the 40s long before the togue masters of Japan.

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-Mike

Yoshi

but it was just that, OVAL. Touge usually incudes da madd phat dori-dori action y0! (or linking consecutive drifts), a good dirt oval driver just slides in one direction... so it's like saying NASCAR is like formula racers. Drifting one turn is easy, setting up for the one coming while your in the middle of the first/2nd/8th is another story alltogether

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Var

you guys missed the point of this thread. there were some ppl i was arguing with and i was saying that although drifting isnt the fastest was around a racetrack, it is the fastest way down a twisty mountain. this proves my point besides the fact that the fastest mountain drivers i know slide through turns.

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Hi

Bliss

no it doesnt PROVE youre point. its just a website that SUPPORTS drifting that says its faster.

remember kids, not everything on the internet is true.

how do you figure its the fastest way down a twist mountain??

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-Ben

Var

you're right it doesnt prove my point but it supports it.


i figure cause i do and im not explaining it again. i've seen it and the 2 fastest guys in my town do it and nobody can keep up with them.

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Hi

Wei240

I think there are different points:
1. mtn racers cut milliseconds off their time by cutting corners tightly, think wrc without all the dirt and not like kaidou battle/initial d where long slides = more points because that makes you slower
2. drifting (longer drifts/slides...) arose from the fact that they found it fun

zero.counter

We must remember to take different sources into account before drawing conclusions as to origins and such...

HyperTek

so in reality, if you where in a duel like initial d, dont waste your time drifting if the other person is drifting, just grip and you should win?? lol jk.

Alot of old racing and car handleing books mention the use of drifting, I never read any, but Ive seen them at local book stores...

I want to see some pics of touge battles back in teh day, what the hell did they drive? If they drove s12s, id get one since its an old Gazelle or Silvia that ricers dont know about. lol

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Keep it Classy

proj240sx

people will forever argue about this and there isnt much point to it. while one expert may be the "fastest" in his area using grip on the touge and another "expert" somewhere else will be faster in his area with drifting. who knows. i just happen to love both. although i like the rush and how much control it takes to consistantly drift on touge.

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Var

ya that's what im saying. you have to understand the difference between a long and short drift. Long drift is showing off of car control and fun, short drift are to pivot your car more and less braking and you can have your car facing the apex before the turn.

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Hi

seiyess

i heard grip is faster, but i think it all depends on the driver.... if you really wanna find out, try it urself. again it won't do any justice.. cause u r not a pro...

nightwalker

someone buy 50acres worth of land, and build a touge, then we can find out if it's true or not.

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Var

build a touge? umm ok

sadly i'm not a pro, you're right. but email drift king and ask him.

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Hi

Rennen

Having just come from a rally race, I can tell you that rally drivers use the slide to SLOW DOWN for turns. A glorious tailslide through a turn usually resulted in them losing all momentum. The fastest ones through had the smallest slip angles with a little slide or feint at the beginning to shed speed.

the "fastest" way around any course depends on the driver's driving style. If he/she cannot make a smooth line through a course, the perhaps drifting might make up fro that and be their "fastest" way. But they will ultimately lose to someone who can take full advantage of their grip and make it through on a smooth line.

Just look towards the highest forms of motorsports, they have tight hairpins, and you never see them sliding around the corners giving a peace sign out the window

The Laws of Physics still govern motorsports

-Matt

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PFM Racing
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Wei240

well, i think there's another misunderstanding, to shave milliseconds, it's meant for really really really tight turns, not the tight hairpins or any sharp turns that you find on the highest forms of motorsport because i agree drift will be slower.
mtn driving is vague, because there are all sorts of roads, but on certain crazy ones that requires 170 degree turns in a short amount of space, i believe drift while maintaining high rpm would be faster than go the normal grip method...
yeah, i don't rally, but i've seen on wrc (those guys are nuts!!!, crazy tyte skillz yo) that they do drift around really really really sharp corners (and not on dirt either) where i don't think grip would be the faster method
then again, maybe the definition on drift has different interpretations..

Kain_Pabyeda

Speaking of the Laws of Physics:
"Using large slip angles to slow the car down is a technique used in racing known as scrubbing off speed. This allows the driver to reduce speed while cornering w/o actually using the brakes. He throws the car very hard into the turn, generating large slip angles. As this slows the car he can tighten the radius of the turnor otherwise use the reduced speed to his advantage. Occasionally a driver w/o brakes is able to make a reasonable showing in a race by scrubbing off speed entering the turns.
Because of relatively large slip angles many racing cars appear to be sliding sideways through the turns. This attitude is often called a drift, and is looked on by many as the ultimate cornering technique. A car nearing the limit of adheasion will naturally assume this drift if the rear tires operate at large slip angles. However, many racing drivers try to limit slip angles to smaller than maximum value so as not to scrub off speed in fast turns. A smoother driving technique MAY pay off with higher exit speeds from the turns and faster lap times. Maximum slip angles are used only in extreme conditions or when a driver is deliberately scrubbing off speed."
Hence drifting is a viable "technique" used in racing. It may not always be the fastest way around ALL turns, but it can be the fastest around some.

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Rennen

I agree with you 100% on that, and I have found myself that putting a little slide into a tight corner usually lowers my times. But I also know that a tire can only create so much static friction. A sliding or spinning tire is outside of its friction circle and making less than its maximum force. And if your tires aren't making their maximum force, you cannot accelerate or corner as well as you can if your tires were somewhere on the friction circle. So while this 'technique' is sometimes fast, and beneficial in situations, its definitely not the optimum situation.

I know that there are many other factors that come into play while racing, but all thing being equal, a "grip" tire will create more force than a "drift" tire. This is of course in an ideal physics situation, and since no one here is a perfect driver(myself included) a little slide can pay off. But it is a foolish to say that drift is THE FASTEST way around any course.

-Matt

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'89 Nissan 240SX fastback: #23 DSP/RallyMod2/Track Slut
'95 BMW 540i 6 speed: Ultimate Commuting Machine

PFM Racing
www.solo2.org
www.midwest240sx.com

Var

? again down a mountain road with constant hairpins, drifting is THE FASTEST way.

not on ANY COURSE, just downhill on a mountain with a lot of tight turns.

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Hi

TRUENOCOUPE

I didn't see this thread...

Should we continue to argue?

LOL

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DRIFTxBATTLE IS GONE | MYSPACE | NORCAL DRIFT | ZipTied Tee's

Yoshi

ok, seriously... I hate you.
ok, maybe not, but still! I was so happy to see this thread die!

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TRUENOCOUPE

Not like I give a flying fuck.

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DRIFTxBATTLE IS GONE | MYSPACE | NORCAL DRIFT | ZipTied Tee's

Var

thanks for bringing it back

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Hi

Bliss

i hardly see how you've proven your point. like everyone has said, it CAN be beneficial, but drifting around everyone corner going downhill (doesnt matter if its a mountain or not) in consecutive turns will NOT be the fastest way.

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-Ben

TRUENOCOUPE

I thought you know better than this...

Arguing about drifting is the fastest around turn is just plain gay ie the thread starter.

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DRIFTxBATTLE IS GONE | MYSPACE | NORCAL DRIFT | ZipTied Tee's

nokeone

hahaha...leave it to Al to bring back something like this....

Kain and Rennen...

mr pimp...do some more homework...i think HS physics would be beneficial to you...check the laws of motion..

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Var

shut up and go eat some lumpia bitch

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Hi

DuffMan

One thing to keep in mind:

TIRES IN THE 60s SUCKED!!


Also people have been driving sideways and countersteering since cars were invented. The early races in the 1900s were on dirt roads, because they didnt even have many paved roads. They got sideways all the time. Charlie Chaplin style, bish.