AJ

Is it cheaper to go custom with your turbo set up. &nbsp;It seems like all the kits replace a lot of stuff when some of it is unnessisary. &nbsp;Is it possible to get a turbo up and running for less than 3g's if you do the installation and find a good used intercooler etc. &nbsp;And then slowly upgrade things as you go? &nbsp;I'm so lost,, answer what you can <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> thanks!

whateverjames

i think it's possible. i can't give you answers for your car but for my SOHC, i'm buying a $1500 kit that comes with the bare minimum. &nbsp;oil lines, manifold, t3/t4 turbo. get a used intercooler for a few hundred, intercooler piping for 100. fuel pump for 125. ECU re-prorammed is a must 600. injectors ??. you're looking at 2500-3000, i'd guess, i haven't done the math.

sykikchimp

Sure, with USED parts. &nbsp;Check out this guy...<a href="http://dave_240sx.tripod.com/240sxdaperformance/" target='_blank'>http://dave_240sx.tripod.com/240sxdaperformance/</a>

He supposedly has a turbo kit starting at $1000 bucks for the KA. &nbsp;Haven't talked to him yet though. &nbsp;I think he's a list member over on FA.

daperformance

DAPerformance (Dave)
We don't sell just used turbos, we sell new also it just depends on how much you want to spend. The used turbo is a starter kit and all of the turbos are guaranteed. These are legit kits and we are a reputable company. All manifolds are new Rev-Hard. If you have any questions please go to my site and contact me through e-mail link.
Http://dave_240sx.tripod.com/240sxdaperformance/

DSC

I was just checkin that site out a little while ago, someone over at NICO asked about it. With ECU and exhaust and everything, looks like I could get my (realistic) dream setup for under 3k <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> I have about two hundred dollars now so I don't think that'll happen any time soon, but the site is bookmarked for future reference.

sykikchimp

Hey Dave.. &nbsp;cool. &nbsp;I didn't realize you were on the Forum. &nbsp;I sent you an email already with a bunch of questions. &nbsp;It might be cool if you (or I ) posted your answers on here for informations sake?

Takumi

Wow, if this isn't too good to be true...hmm..that opens up a lot of possibilities for custom turbos for the KA. So far, it sounds good. Plus you can stay in your budget and still get the good parts like HKS, Blitz, and GReddy blow off valves, intercoolers, and wastegates while managing to still have change for gauges, turbo timer, and a boost controller. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

It would be SO awesome if I could accomplish this around $3,000-3,500 total. A T25 turbo sounds pretty good, even though it seems rather small for an engine like the KA. However, the characteristics of it sounds like something I'd use. It spools up quick and it pulls decent power (I'm not into higher HP setups, just something a bit over 200 at least). I'd hate to put up with turbo lag on a road course while trying to drive through hairpins. x_x

I just have one question. How are the Revhard manifolds? I keep hearing negative things about them and people would be better off with custom welded manifolds instead. Unfortunately, not everyone has that alternative, but I know people are seeking the most efficient and dependable manifold they can find. So what's up with the Revhard units? What can be done?

(Edited by Takumi at 12:15 pm on Feb. 1, 2002)

daperformance

I havent heard anything negative about Revhard. I havent had any problems myself on my cars. There is a problem with a custom manifold. The welds tend to brake often. Beleive me i have tried this one. We are also looking into other companies for maifolds and have talked to a few but there prices are high. The point of this turbo kit is to keep it affordable. &nbsp;We are going ot be considering other companies for those who would rather have a different manifold.
The reason our prices are goodis because we put kits together ourself with ot the 100% mark up. We dont include BOVs and intercoolers because we want you guys to have a choice in wha you want to your prefferences. I preffer TurboXs myself but some of you would prefer something different. &nbsp;Some people say that you get what you pay for. &nbsp;Lets stop and think about that really. Who are the ones who say that? I would think its the people who paid that much for there stuff and the people who sell there stuff for that much. So in other words... You are getting a good conscious for spending what you did.
Thanks for the business of you guys who have already purchased from us.

luke20

I was (and still am - to an extent) considering turboing my KA24DE. &nbsp;Here's what I figured out, and you really should get ALL of this, esp. fuel management:
1. T3/T04E turbo &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;$600 used
2. manifold &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; $400 new (Rev Hard)
3. injectors &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; $400/4 (72lb/hr)
4. fuel pump &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; $50 (300ZX TT)
5. Jim Wolf ECU &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;$675
6. MAF sensor &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;$325 (mustang cobra)
7. fuel rail &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; $225 (Jim Wolf)
8. con. rods &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;$650 (Crower)
9. pistons &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; $650 (JE 8.5:1)

For a grand total of under $4000 (excluding block and headwork) you can have a killer turbo set-up, capable of super-high HP, and low 1/4 mi. times. &nbsp;Or you can buy a kit that limits your boost to around 10lbs, max, and still get beat by SR20's. &nbsp;Your call. &nbsp;You can make a small boost set-up for less, but DON'T cut corners with fuel management. &nbsp;the stock injectors can only flow enough for about 5 lbs, max. &nbsp;The blocks' strengths in stock 240's are debatable, too. &nbsp;That's why if you're going to do it, do it all. &nbsp;

daperformance

wow! where did you find those prices? Those are unheard of! Those are way better than what i get them for. That revhard manifold is in no way the right price, no offense, neither are fuel injectors or turbos, or fuel pumps. If they were, i would be able to sell my kits for less. Those are way cheaper than what you should be ready for. Even a used TT Fuel pump is at minumum $100. Injectors i have found were RCs for $175 a peice for 370cc- not much more than stock.
I havent heard of a kit that limits boost to 10lbs. There isnt a turbo KA i have ever seen get smoked by a stock sr20. You are comparing an Sr20-200hp at the flywheel, against a turbo Ka- 215-225HP at the rear wheel at 6 lbs of boost. Stock KA injectors are in my other 240 with this turbo kit and are holding 7.5 lbs very well as the same as the stock fuel pump. KA blocks are very strong! The pistons are great for N/a motors., but not turbo motors. However, stock Ka internals can easily hold 11-13 lbs of boost as long as you do upgrade fuel &nbsp;managment and thats near 240-260hp with a KA. An Sr can only handle safely 14 lbs stock but still needing the same fuel upgrades. Hp numbers are very similiar. I love the Sr20s and Ca18s, but numbers are numbers. and the Kas are still bigger displacement motors. &nbsp;You may have to change KA internals for high boost, but the market is becoming more popular for them as the Sr parts market still fairly small. Both are excellent Nissan motors. It just comes down to peoples prefferences and know how.
Also, i can all those parts you listed Luke special order if you are needing them. Thanks

Takumi

Hmm...how badly will the mpg decrease with a turbo kit? I just know an SR20DET is around 21-22 mpg. My shitty 'teg (it's just got intake and exhaust) is around 20-22 mpg so I can sorta put up with decreased mileage. Just as long as it doesn't go below 20-21 mpg, it's cool. Just sorta worried about the car being daily driven to work or school on the weekdays and out cruising around on the weekends.

Don't get me wrong, the turbo isnt' for my 'teg. &nbsp;I'm getting another car in a few months and I'm just planning ahead.


(Edited by Takumi at 4:45 pm on Feb. 1, 2002)

AJ

this is the greatest topic ever,, i love it.. this info is sWeet,, thanks for you all that are responding. ur awesome..

now my question.. &nbsp;I want about 200 or so hp to the ground. &nbsp;What is the cheapest i can go to get to this end?

also. How hard is this stuff to install?

and do the kits come with the piping required?

how much r used front mounts?

thanks <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'> answer what u can.. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> &nbsp; -AJ

anthony240

That's a good list Luke, but you're missing critical components there. You'll also need a custom downpipe and custom i/c piping, and intercooler of course. And a BOV and Wastegate is a must for a durable system. Also, a boost controller, turbo timer, and other management devices must also be considered. A good book I learned to follow is &quot;Maximum Boost&quot; by Corky Bell, a very good book that focuses on the right and wrongs of a turbo setup, and mostly on maintaining the system, which is most important.

daperformance

AJ-
Cheapest isnt the best way to look about a turbo kit. Sure ours is affordable, but we dont sell complete kits in order to let you decide on what you want to add with it. We can put a kit toether for you. Just email me about it if you are intrested.
It really isnt hard to install a turbo kit. Its really just time consuming.
Some kits come with piping and etc like Nsport and Xs-engineering and Revhard kits. But then you only get there choice of items with there kits. Its not a bad idea, but can get expensive. Its your taste on what you want to do. We can install the kit also if you would like. So if you need help, bring it to us and we can do it for you. I would definatly start off with some small boost applications though. and work your way up from there. It also gives you a chance to learn your car all over again.

(Edited by daperformance at 8:54 pm on Feb. 1, 2002)

DSC

I can't believe I'm asking this <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>
What the difference between a boost controler and a turbo timer?

Hehe, Dave, you may be selling some of your kits to people who ask quesitons like this :biggrin: hope it comes with good instructions...

Takumi

Boost controller, you can up the boost electronically (Blitz Dual Solenoid, HKS, GReddy Profec, Apex'i AVC Type R etc) or manually (it's a small knob thing that you hook up to your wastegate(?)). So yea, how's the miles per gallon and how's the turbo kit on daily driving? How much is it to install a turbo kit?

Thanks for paying lots of attention to our questions, this is really informative.

(Edited by Takumi at 6:26 pm on Feb. 1, 2002)

whateverjames

why is a downpipe needed? downpipe replaces the cat right? &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;replacing that won't be good for emissions laws here.

DSC

Thanks Takumi, I knew it was something like that but whats a turbo timer then?

Takumi

The turbo timer keeps your engine running for whatever amount of time you set it to after you turn of the ignition. &nbsp;This gives your turbo some time to spool down after you've turned off your car. &nbsp;Cuz if the engine stopped running the moment you took your keys out and the turbo is still spinning, that'll mess up your unit.

MrMigs

If you have a turbo timer, you can take the key out of the ignition when you're done driving, and the device will let your car idle for a little bit to allow oil to cool down using your engine's cooling equipment, instead of just letting it just sit there.

When the timer is ends, it shuts off your motor.

I'm pretty sure it goes something like this...

DSC

Oh, heh, ok. A friend of mine left his car running outside my house for like an hour (with his keys in) because he is soo used to hearing his engine running when he walks away <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

anthony240

I just talked to a friend of mine about this, and he says you don't have to go all out, just start on a simple setup. Use interchangeable parts from other cars, like the 300zx (fuel pump, filter, injectors) and a muffler shop can provide mandrel bent pipes. Also, he said that you don't necessarily have to get a big turbo, but in the KA's case, a turbine of at least T4 must be used because the only manifold I know (Revhard) uses a T4 flange, so a T3/T4 turbo is probably best.

And, he told me that a manual boost controller is actually better than an electronic, because you have more control and it reacts faster.

A downpipe connects the turbine outlet to the exhaust system. You can make it as long as you want, because it'll be custom anyway. I'm not sure, but from what I've seen, the downpipes of Nsport, Fmax, and XS are short, so they must have connected to the cat (on S14s). And if you're concerned about getting rid of the cat, replace the hollow resonator with a real cat.

alchemist

I always thought a T3/T4 was a T3 exhaust side, and a T4 compressor. &nbsp;so it would fit a manifold with a T3 flange...right? &nbsp;

A downpipe is needed because its the pipe that goes from the out side of the turbo to the rest of the exhaust system.

AJ

where and from who can you get the custom piping that is needed if you go with a custom setup from daperformance?

daperformance

Wow, everyone beat me to answering! lol
but yes, the timer lets your engine idle for 1min up to ?
boost controller allows you to change your boost from 3-4 psi and up. Most will not let you go below 3-4 psi.
Revhard makes manifold to fit T3 housings and up. however, we make an adapter flange to fit the T25 also. Its just a plate we customized. T25s spool up faster. Many people preffer them for those only looking to get around 220hp. &nbsp;
Anythony is right about part interchanging. It is the most cost effective way to upgrade.
All our downpipes are small also to give those an option to use a cat or not.
Takumi- We still get around 30 mpgs in regular driving. Of course, getting on the gas alot decreases the mpg, but it does that with or withut turbo. Daily driving with the turbo kit is really no different than without. You dont really know its there until you give it gas, hear the BOV, and in fifth on the interstate will feel like you are in 3rd with the power it delivers. For us to install the turbo kit is $450 in labor + extra parts like the piping and exhaust not including the IC &nbsp;for just the turbo kit or $480 labor inclues the cost of installing the intercooler and IC piping as well as the turbo kit. &nbsp;Email me if you want us ti install one.

AJ

your in tennesee!.. damnit... i'm in Ohio.. that won't work to well...

daperformance

We have had one guy come down form Ohio last week. Its not too far to come to get something done right for the money.

ice240sx

this is forwarded from 9591 on FA's forum:

I keep getting kicked off the register page at Zilvia.net, so would somebody that is already registered (I know there're some of you here) tell those poor people in the recent Turbo thread (in the Tech Talk forum), that are real impressed by daperformance's &quot;beginner&quot; kits, that they seem to be Way Over-Priced. You can use these facts:
1) RevHard manifold can be purchased directly from RevHard http://www.revhard.com for $450.
2) *New* T04E turbo can be purchased from Performance Techniques http://www.turbonetics.com for $750.
3) The hardest part of modding the oilpan is in removing/reinstalling it, which you'll have to do, anyway, with the one they provide.
4) That's $1200; $800 less than what they want for the same thing, unless they include a downpipe (they're not too clear on that), but even then it's too much.
Used turbo prices are harder to pin down, but let's say $400. Plus $450 for the manifold, and that's still $425 less than their price. somebody please enlighten those folks at Zilvia before they waste their money.

Sorry for the weird post. For those that are curious about who I'm talking about: http://dave_240sx.tripod.com/240sxda...mance/id6.html

240racer

One thing you guys have to remember is that when a company puts together a kit they have to make some money or they wouldn't have time to do that. &nbsp;What you are paying for is their time, knowledge and support. &nbsp;This isn't a large volume market so Dave is probably buying the parts for the same prices we can get them for. &nbsp;However, when you buy them from him, then he can help you with things later on. &nbsp;If you want to buy them yourself and save some cash now, that's fine, but you better not expect to get any help from him or anyone else without paying them for their time. &nbsp;Most shops charge $50/hr or more so expect to pay dave that much for his time looking at your car or fixing it when you screw up. &nbsp;Now if he charge a couple hundred more for the kit, that's about 4hrs of his time, which I'm sure you will find to be benificial. &nbsp;Personally I plan to peice together my kit, but I'm definatly not going to go whinning to Dave with every problem I have, unless I want to pay him. &nbsp;So go cheap if you want, but only if you know your stuff, cause otherwise it's only going to cost more in the long run.

Adam

Takumi

Personally, it just looks like a similar deal to the other aftermarket turbo kits like F-Max, Nsport, XS Engineering, and GReddy. Except you have much more of a choice of which components you want instead of having them chosen for you. It seems like the people who don't have the resources or the time to dig around info and prices to piece together their own turbo kit would say this guy's services are a rip off. People (like me) who hasn't quite learned his/her way around their own engine bays or learned enough about what goes into a good turbo kit, we don't mind paying the extra money for someone to do it for us. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

Yes, some of us are lazy.

Out of curiosity, what REALLY IS needed for a basic turbo kit that'll run with no problems? I just know I'd need the turbo (duh), manifold (do you guys do any kind of high temp. coating? hate for that thing to crack), blow off valve (do brands matter? Which one's reliable?), wastegate (how much are those?), various proper fluid lines (not really sure what they are), intercooler (I dunno what size would work well with a small turbo like the T25), new injectors (whether it be bored out factory units or aftermarket ones, not sure what's the minimum size to use for a turbo application), retuned ECU (Jim Wolf), or some fuel management unit, and a boost gauge (at least).

Sorry Dave, I live all the way in California, that'd be quite a drive to get a turbo kit set up. However, I do have friends who own shops to do the work. One of them mostly works on hybrid and force inducted Hondas, but I'm sure Nissan cars wouldn't be too much of a problem. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

(Edited by Takumi at 1:41 pm on Feb. 2, 2002)