Antihero983

Camaro>Mustang. I'll take a car that doesn't still use a solid rear axle, thanks.

Ford needs to kill mercury, there's no need for it anymore.

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exitspeed

Man you guys are NOT paying attention to any of the quality and dependability reports are you?

And saying the GM and Ford are behind in technology is one of the most ingnorant statements I have ever heard.

Have you heard of Smart Materials? Or GM's development in the use of CF? Our how about Ford's SYNC system which can't be matched by BMW, MB, or Lexus. Or the fact that ever manufacturer has an EV vehicle coming out in the next 2-3 years and GM released one FOURTEEN FUCKIN YEARS AGO! Or that the best Hybrid vehicle on the road is made my Ford. That's just few things off the top of my head.

Even regarding traction control you are so far off base it's hysterical.

Seriously, Red Dragon3 that was one of the least informed posts regarding the industry I have ever read on the internet. I honestly don't think I even want to discuss this with you further if you actually believe any of that.

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codyace

Exactly! I think this was GM's biggest issue for a while...they were focusing to much on appeasing everyone, instead of cutting back quantity and focusing on some of their good cars and just making them better.

I'd rather have 5 awesome cars, than 10 half assed ones. I think you understand what I mean.

Crazy! Yea i was hoping for a total cross between them all. I mean Ford Certainly tells us all day long 'f series best selling'...but F series is a HUGE gamut of trucks ya know?

I'm a diehard Ford guy forever, but I'm not ignorant to GM/Chevy sales being equally good.

I'd be willing to bet you'd have a hard time telling the difference in a properly setup car. Saying IRS always better than Live axle is about as retarded as those who banter on about DOHC being always better than pushrods.

There is something said about a simple live axle setup that works well. My parents have always had Mustangs, and recently got a '10. It drives/handles/works awesome...very fun and superb car...much better than the 05 (Both GT's).

Just kill some of th ebest selling US cars out there right? Milan?

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codyace

It's easier to hate than learn as they say - I've always gotten a kick out of those lemmings who automatically think 'foreign is always better because'...I just want to slap them and tell them to get out of 1986!

Seriously though, in the past 5-10 years, Domestic cars have easily out paced Foreign cars in terms of features and dependability.

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exitspeed

I used to be one of those people. Partly because of a lack of knowledge and partly becuase there was a reason to discriminate.

GM and Ford (notice how I haven't mentioned Chrysler in any of my defenses against the domestics. That is intentional) have made HUGE strides in all aspects of the industry, from quality, innovation, dependability, fit and finish, style, etc etc. They lagged so far behind up until the mid 2000's it was really sad. By now anyone paying attention would recognize the turn around. Anyone not, would think we are still in 1998.

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HAWAII

I too am looking at FORD in a different light. I love what the mangement is doing to their business plan and love the new designs that they are coming out with.

FORD EUROPE has always been respected and sometimes I do not get why we get the stupid Taurus or crown victoria of old and they get the Mondeo. The Euro Focus is a totally different animal than the watered down version of what we get here.

Their product lineup is way better that what GM has to offer at this point, exterior and interior wise. The company will continue to move forward if they will stick to their plan spitting out the right decisions time after time, and keep listening to the consumers.

Now, if only they can get rid of the UAW, they would move up much faster.

LISTEN UP GM. STUDY FORD!

exitspeed

I agree with you you for the most part. GM's interiors though are a lot better then Ford's right now.

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Antihero983

Mustangs are alright, Ive driven several. But I disagree. I think if you take two equally set up cars with either setup, the IRS will win.

As far as the Milan, i think you are incorrect, as every top ten best seelers for 2009 list I've seen has had the Fusion, but not the Milan. Mercury represents what got Ford and GM into trouble in the first place, a blatant re-hashing of the same car.

Like I always say, Mercury is just a Ford with more chrome.

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exitspeed

Ford had a plan a few years ago with Mercury that never went forward. They were going to turn Mercury into a division that sold mostly luxury Hybrids. Think of a higher end new Focus Hybrid with a swank interior. Or the current Lexus HS. The cars were going to be smaller and efficient. But they abandoned the idea for some reason. I think they were onto something. Now it's just the same ol badge engineering that it always has been.

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ZX88

they finally smartened up and brought there European designs over here..

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codyace

The thing, it's hard to have two 'equally' setup cars. Let me assure you (as I do track days all summer long) that a Fox Body with a half decent suspension will make 90% of the cars out there look silly.

Again, while it may be 'the oldhead' way of doing things, that doesn't mean it's the wrong way to do things. AIX exists for this reason, and those cars haul the mail.

Not really. Think of it this way, what is the total cost to develope a new car, versus slightly tweaking one for another brand? Lets assume both break even, I'd rather sell 100 Fusions and 60 Milans than 130 Fusions

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SimpleS14

You quoted the F-150, but Ford is talking about the entire F-series line of pickups such as the F-350.

I LOL'd at this.

For the time being, I have not heard Ford express consideration in a redesign for this car. It might phase out just like the Montego did when the Taurus was redesigned. No one knows for sure what Ford will do, but I rather see it phased out or focused on a new line-up based on overseas designs.

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Red Dragon3

Ok, First of all I want to say that was a very quick post. Yes it was ignorant post and definitely generalized post/ideas against American car manufactures. If you don’t want to discuss about cars with me that is fine by me. IMO I do think that the Japanese car manufactures have a lead in technology compared to the American auto makers. It is great that GM, Ford and Dodge are doing research and trying new things. Not one point in my post did i say that they are not doing their research and not improving their cars. What I was trying to say is that, they are lagging in technology in their PRODUCTION vehicles. A person can create a concept, but can they put it out in production, in a quality and reliable manner?
Smart Materials: Its great that GM is implementing this technology in their vehicle. It is a very efficient way of creating movable parts without fancy electric motors. But by no means that this is not new technology explored in the 1930's. I searched but i cannot find any info of GM actually using this technology in a production vehicle. But prove me wrong.
GM development in CF: By CF i am assuming carbon fiber. Carbon fiber is great. I love carbon fiber. There is a plethora of companies that use carbon fiber in there auto mobiles. Thats old news.
Ford Sync: Its basically a suped up version of a navi, bluetooth technology, and ipod/mp3 intergration. Yea the sync is a very used friendly program. Ford did not start a new trend by all means, at the time of the release of the SYNC many car manufactures had some sort of Bluetooth navi ipod intergration. They are just competing with other manufactures, which is good. IMO I dont think the SYNC is very special by all means but user friendly, yes. And yes i have used it before.
GM release EV vehicle: Thats great GM electric car 14 years ago. I don’t think the people were ready for the electric cars 14 years ago.
Best Hybrid made by Ford: That would be your opinion I guess. I did a quick search and the top fuel efficient cars and cars like Prius, civic, fit come out on top. There is the ford escape, but i think as a company perspective, there is not much market on a hybrid suv.
I am not trying to bash American car companies, in any way. Hell i love the Ford GT, the ford raptor and i love the look of the new GMC trucks. When i am looking to buy a new car, i want a car that is unique and offers features that other cars don’t have. When i buy a car i am looking at the options the car has to offer, the specifications of the engine, transmission, suspension, the technology, the design of the entire vehicle, the whole works. For example. I just bought a 08 Mitsubishi EVO X MR, and if you have been reading car magazines you will know that the evo is a superb handling car. The cars offers high performance suspension (all forged aluminum pieces eibach coils, bilstine shocks), high performance brakes (2 piece rotors, brembo callipers), engine (turbo 4 cylinder, variable valve timing) are just some of the things they offer. Its not just about looks or motor size. Its the whole package
I would like to see Ford to create a mid priced high performance sport compact car to compete with evos, sti and 370z.
I would also like to see ford create a truck that does not have a giant v8 motor. You don’t need a big motor to make big power. I am thinking a 6 cylinder turbo diesel.

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VROOOM

Ford and Chevy both offer cars to compete with the Evo, Sti and 370z.
the Camaro SS, Ford Mustang and Chevy Cobalt. around a track it would be a drivers race between most of those cars. sure the SS and Mustang arent " sport compact" cars, but they offer comparable performance for the same amount of cash.

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ronmcdon

the components alone of the evo doesn't offer any new technology per say.
It's just integrated differently to appeal to a select niche of customers.

I really doubt Ford is going after the same demographic.
That is not to say they don't have their market, & it's not profitable.
The Mustang is a solid product and sells well on it's own.

Antihero983

Last I heard (and this was in early 09) was that FoMoCo had no plans for Mercury past 2010. Since theyve revamped (and decently except the navigator) Lincoln, I do wonder what they plan for Ol Merc.

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ESmorz

Yeah.

Do it Ford.

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Taniguchi_Is_#1

i'll make this quick:
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Future240

New Taraus SHO = Teh hotness

I like the direction ford is going in. Its has a vehicle for everyone whether you are that soccer mom, that broke college kid, or mid life crisis old man.

I will always be a GM man, but I can respect what ford is doing.

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exitspeed

Good response actually. Although I still disagree with you that they are lagging behind.

Here's an article regarding that if you want to read up more. Autoline on Autoblog with John McElroy &mdash; Autoblog

GM used smart materials on the The Malibu Maxx hatch without anyone even knowing. It cut cost and weight on the hatch substantially. That is exactly what the future needs, and GM is using it now.

Of course the use of CF is old news, but how many people are planning on implementing it into consumer level cars and not just super cars? Well the question to that is nearly everyone. But GM has a head start on it. Their use of CF on the roof of the ZR1 is being used as a test subject for CF in real world conditions. They are working with a company (sorry the name eludes me at the moment) to produce CF at very very low costs so that eventually they can use CF across their lineups to cut down on weight. Cutting down on weight increases efficiency.

Yes, it is exactly that. Except NO ONE has a system right now that does it so simply. Look at BMW. They can engineer the best driving cars in the world but their iDrive has been criticized by every single media outlet on every single one of its cars since the day it came out. It's atrocious. Even some of the best systems out there (like in the current Jaguar XF) don't come close to how easy and powerful Ford's SYNC is. Ford didn't envent the Automobile either...they just created a better way to build them. Here, they didn't invent all in one in car info-tainment set-up...they just made it work right.

My point was they aren't lagging behind in technology like you said.


Indeed that is my opinion. The Civic gets an est 45 mpg hwy and the Prius gets an est 51. Both which are compact cars. The Fusion gets a respectable 41mpg..and it's a MID SIZE SEDAN. There's no compromises on size and space OR style. Lets face it, looks verse looks who would actually pic a Prius over the new Fusion? Maybe Stevie Wonder, but I can't think of anyone else.

Ford doesn't need to compete with the Evo right now. They have the Mustang which sells more units in 6 months then Mitsu sells Evo's all year. Yes I will agree the Mustang is still using some outdated technology, but with what they are able to achieve with that old tech is pretty impressive.

And regarding Ford putting in a V6....Report: Ford porting 3.7L V6 into 2011 F-150 &mdash; Autoblog Not turbo deisel but you can't argue with 305 hp and 24 mpg.

YES. This man knows whats up. That Concept is STILL futuristic today. If you put contemporary lighting and wheels on that concept you would have no idea how old it is. That concept has always held a special place in my heart.

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codyace

Not saying the Evo isn't a good car, as I love them. However the interior is no better than a Lancer, their reliability is far from great, and they are quite uncomfortable when carrying 4 people. Again, sweet car, great performance car, and neat...but it's a very select market, that appeals to very few people. STi vs Evo is a great 'battle', much like Camaro vs. Mustang. Saying Ford should make a one off car to compete in a tiny sales market is like telling Mitsubishi to create a v8 rwd pony car.

As I said before, these companies key to success is focusing on the models they have that sell, not so much trying to compete in every industry.

European Focus would be a great addition to the American lineup, but the Mustang already outsells probably Evo/Sti/370z combined...so in the ultimate scheme, Ford is doing the right thing by focusing on what sells, not what a 'niche' buyer group wants.

A light duty turbo diesel would be nice, but I totally disagree with the V6 trucks (gas jobbers) being needed. They simple do not have the instant Torque a v8 provides. If you want a v6 truck, get a Ranger/Tundra/Frontier/ etc etc...we work in the big rig/service truck (it's our family business) repair business, and if you suggested anyone getting a v6 truck for work, they'd laugh.

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HyperTek

that 2011 mustang V6 is suppose to pack like 300hp.. they getting serious on the low end model

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ronmcdon

the existing v6 camaro already does 304hp.
it also gets 29mpg hwy.

ford is just playing catch up with the mustang