This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread. - Page 203 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

jaysgottaredtop · 12-12-2013, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sviellvoicae

I don't seem to have enough lenght on the rod ends

I've researched this set up a lot and never seen this issue.

you must have searched every thread except the ENTIRETY of this one, lol.

you need longer tie rods. you can get these at any local parts store.

look back over the last few pages. there's lots of info in here about which inners and outers are longer than stock.

to get you off on the right foot: i have PBM forged knuckles and +56mm LCAs. i'm using A32 maxima inners and S14 outers. this combo would be plenty long enough for your +25mm LCAs.

stephens14sr · 12-12-2013, 07:01 PM

i have pbm forged with PBM inners and SPL outers and have no issues. plenty of room.

DC Dan MAX USA · 12-12-2013, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephens14sr

i could be wrong, but i think the proknuckles are 25mm or so drop knuckles as well.

MAX forged front knuckles are 45mm roll center
The rears are 25mm, add the sub frame risers for an additional 10mm RC out back.

MiamiZ33 · 12-12-2013, 08:20 PM

So, to bring up a slightly older post... what's the difference between a "drop" knuckle and a corrected roll center knuckle?

Aren't you effectively doing the same thing by changing the distance between the spindle axis and the LCA ball joint?

PoorMans180SX · 12-12-2013, 08:47 PM

It is doing the same thing, but a drop knuckle lowers the car at the hubs by moving the hub upwards in the knuckle. A roll center correcting knuckle just drops the lower control arm mount, ride height will stay the same.

Some use a combo.

sviellvoicae · 12-13-2013, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysgottaredtop

you must have searched every thread except the ENTIRETY of this one, lol.

you need longer tie rods. you can get these at any local parts store.

look back over the last few pages. there's lots of info in here about which inners and outers are longer than stock.

to get you off on the right foot: i have PBM forged knuckles and +56mm LCAs. i'm using A32 maxima inners and S14 outers. this combo would be plenty long enough for your +25mm LCAs.

Thanks for your help. I was informed by and handful of people that the pbm inners were long enough for this. Why would they sell and recommend these with their lca's of they aren't long enough? Odd. Thanks

Black240Ct · 12-13-2013, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sviellvoicae

Thanks for your help. I was informed by and handful of people that the pbm inners were long enough for this. Why would they sell and recommend these with their lca's of they aren't long enough? Odd. Thanks

run the pbm inners, they seem to be the longest aftermarket with proper thread lengths and spacer built in.. then get 1990 maxima outer tie rods. these are the same as s14, but the maxima's are 5 inches long not the 3.5 est. that s14's are.

heres an updated pic.

left is an s13 outer (same legth as an s14) and on the right is the 1990 maxima

installed

jaysgottaredtop · 12-13-2013, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sviellvoicae

Thanks for your help. I was informed by and handful of people that the pbm inners were long enough for this. Why would they sell and recommend these with their lca's of they aren't long enough? Odd. Thanks

being frustrated or confused just comes with the territory of buying stuff from PBM. i have yet to buy something from them without scratching my head over how the hell they managed to do/omit/ignore/forget something, haha

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black240Ct

run the pbm inners, they seem to be the longest aftermarket with proper thread lengths and spacer built in.. then get 1990 maxima outer tie rods. these are the same as s14, but the maxima's are 5 inches long not the 3.5 est. that s14's are.

heres an updated pic.

left is an s13 outer (same legth as an s14) and on the right is the 1990 maxima
{img}
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awesome info. my s14 outers on right on the border of being too short. this is a huge help, thanks!

Black240Ct · 12-13-2013, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysgottaredtop

awesome info. my s14 outers on right on the border of being too short. this is a huge help, thanks!

np. i welded on an extra nut to the end of the outer just for good measure.

Snatch'D Factory · 12-13-2013, 07:50 PM

I'm kinda new to this, but I have a question. Is having your rear arms as flat as possible the best for traction during drift?

sviellvoicae · 12-13-2013, 11:08 PM

I am running pbm inners so looks like those outters will do the trick! Thanks again guys!

PoorMans180SX · 12-14-2013, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snatch'D Factory

I'm kinda new to this, but I have a question. Is having your rear arms as flat as possible the best for traction during drift?

It is a LOT more complex than that. I'd recommend starting on the first page and doing a lot of reading. You'll get to see all my newb posts along the way

.

Snatch'D Factory · 12-14-2013, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

It is a LOT more complex than that. I'd recommend starting on the first page and doing a lot of reading. You'll get to see all my newb posts along the way

.

Okay, I will. Thanks dude.

Motary · 12-14-2013, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snatch'D Factory

I'm kinda new to this, but I have a question. Is having your rear arms as flat as possible the best for traction during drift?

They are not parallel, but having lower arm parallel to the ground is pretty good as far as stock geometry goes

hks4life · 12-14-2013, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysgottaredtop

FYI: be careful using stock s13/s14/maxima/i30/etc inner tie rods with slip-on tie rod spacers.

there are enough engaging threads for the tie rod to hold on inside the rack during most situations

...but clip your tire on the lead guy's bumper during a tandem run, and it'll rip the threads right out

fortunately the threads inside the rack were fine, so it only took a short run to the parts store for a replacement tie rod (maxima in this case) and i was back out on track.

just saying. be careful. it's probably worth the money to invest in a better spacer style, such as PBM inner tie rods (with the spacer built into the joint, not taking up threads). or if you need longer tie rods than PBM, look into getting a combo of OEM inner tie rods (s14, z32, maxima, whatever suits your needs) with thread-in steering rack spacers (like those offered by GKTech).

i use a slip on spacer from ace hardware, copper one i think its like half the size of the ones out on the market not sure but ive hit couple people and yet to do this to my car, id suggest trying that and not using such a big one

Black R · 12-17-2013, 11:57 AM

I have the tein inner and outer tie rods on my s13 and the added spacer they come with.

I've always wondered why they include a single spacer and say to put it on the passenger side...

And I've always wondered if I could buy another spacer and put it on the driver side to get even more angle...

sleepyS14se · 12-17-2013, 02:28 PM

i just installed kyb AGX struts on my s14. I have been riding on stock struts and megan springs for awhile and i went ahead and installed the fronts (put them on setting 3 of 4)

Today i went and put the REAR AGX's on my s14 and the setting are like 2-8 as where the fronts are only 1-4. That being said, I put the rears on setting 6.

I am not used to the feel of driving with new struts, but i feel like i am understeering now when takin turns aggressively.

By stiffening the rear, would that induce more oversteer or more understeer??? some one pm me please it would be appreciated.

KA240SX808 · 12-17-2013, 07:06 PM

Oversteer.

derass · 12-18-2013, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black R

I have the tein inner and outer tie rods on my s13 and the added spacer they come with.

I've always wondered why they include a single spacer and say to put it on the passenger side...

And I've always wondered if I could buy another spacer and put it on the driver side to get even more angle...

Tein inner tie rods come with slip on angle spacers. If they are recommending that only one should be installed, it is so that the average user does not encounter overcentering. If you installed both, you would have more rack travel and therefore more angle. You may need to remove the bump stops at this point and keep an eye out for overcentering. You can prevent this by lengthening the tension rods, installing eccentric rack bushings or offset rack spacers, or relocating the steering rack.

Bolt on angle spacers are usually recommended to be installed on the passenger side. I assume this is because of the way the gear teeth are cut on the steering rack, so that the pinion does not run out of teeth on the rack with the additional travel.

Motary · 12-19-2013, 02:12 PM

Looks like GKtech bolt on knuckle spacers are out:

https://www.facebook.com/gktech/posts/610878858961035?ref=notif&notif_t=like

R chassis knuckles are also on 20 pair beta testing

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=610871455628442&set=a.1389000894922 50.23032.133362883379304&type=1&relevant_count=1

boost addict · 12-19-2013, 05:51 PM

Yeaaa I snagged a set early this morning, hyped to get those things!

Touge_Monster · 12-20-2013, 10:27 AM

Damn it. I just bought full knuckles 0_0

jspfab.com did an awesome job extending and modifying my lower control arms:

Cant wait to ge this set up aligned

sleepyS14se · 12-20-2013, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boost addict

Yeaaa I snagged a set early this morning, hyped to get those things!

can't find em online...

link?

PoorMans180SX · 12-20-2013, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Touge_Monster

Damn it. I just bought full knuckles 0_0

That's going to bang out a lot of angle if you can set the caster low enough so it doesn't overcenter! Unless your rack is moved forward, then you'll be good to go.

Touge_Monster · 12-20-2013, 01:20 PM

Im kind of hesitant to move the rack forward because I really didnt get the knuckes for the angle aspect. I really liked the other benifits of them. Plus my car is slow and any more angle will slow it down too much hahah. Im going to have JSP add bump stops for me after I get the car together. He didnt want to add one and have it be hitting the tierod in an awkward spot.

Black R · 12-20-2013, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepyS14se

can't find em online...

link?

S13/180sx 40mm roll center correction kit - Limited production batch - ETA late January

Seem to be on backorder already...

* I just ordered mine, and it says ETA late January.

az_240 · 12-21-2013, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Touge_Monster

Im kind of hesitant to move the rack forward because I really didnt get the knuckes for the angle aspect. I really liked the other benifits of them. Plus my car is slow and any more angle will slow it down too much hahah. Im going to have JSP add bump stops for me after I get the car together. He didnt want to add one and have it be hitting the tierod in an awkward spot.

Those look nice but the stopper should hit the steering arm on the knuckle, not the outer tie rod. If you're decently low and want to take advantage of that cutout in your FLCA you're going to want to move the rack forward or you'll overcenter in no time without very low caster.

Touge_Monster · 12-21-2013, 11:37 AM

^^Definitely, meant to say we didn't want to hit the tie rod at all.

I did just get the Pbm inners but I guess I'll pick up the eccentric kit too. Even though with my power I won't be able to utilize the angle while driving

Matej · 12-21-2013, 07:42 PM

There really are no downsides to moving the rack forward. Nor is there anything wrong with having more angle than you can use. It may come in handy when navigating into a tight parking space.

Nategreat923 · 12-22-2013, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matej

There really are no downsides to moving the rack forward. Nor is there anything wrong with having more angle than you can use. It may come in handy when navigating into a tight parking space.

And its really not difficult to do, only took us a few hours to do mine.

I have a question with the GKTech roll center correction kit, would I need to run extended tie rod ends?

12-12-2013, 07:01 PM	#6062
stephens14sr Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: TEXAS Age: 34 Posts: 305 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i have pbm forged with PBM inners and SPL outers and have no issues. plenty of room. __________________ Full 2014 build progress www.handicapmafia.wordpress.com

12-12-2013, 08:20 PM	#6064
MiamiZ33 Zilvia Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Miami, FL Age: 37 Posts: 258 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	So, to bring up a slightly older post... what's the difference between a "drop" knuckle and a corrected roll center knuckle? Aren't you effectively doing the same thing by changing the distance between the spindle axis and the LCA ball joint? __________________ '05 350Z Vortech @ 12 psi (SOLD ) '89 240SX 1UZ (turbo?) coupe

12-12-2013, 08:47 PM	#6065
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 33 Posts: 5,431 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	It is doing the same thing, but a drop knuckle lowers the car at the hubs by moving the hub upwards in the knuckle. A roll center correcting knuckle just drops the lower control arm mount, ride height will stay the same. Some use a combo. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

12-13-2013, 07:50 PM	#6070
Snatch'D Factory Leaky Injector Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 25 Posts: 78 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I'm kinda new to this, but I have a question. Is having your rear arms as flat as possible the best for traction during drift? __________________ Alex Bailey\|Snatch'D Factory\|(651)-333-7392\|Instagram-snatchdfactory

12-17-2013, 11:57 AM	#6076
Black R Zilvia Addict Join Date: May 2009 Location: ATL Posts: 642 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I have the tein inner and outer tie rods on my s13 and the added spacer they come with. I've always wondered why they include a single spacer and say to put it on the passenger side... And I've always wondered if I could buy another spacer and put it on the driver side to get even more angle... __________________ S13 XE coupe: Aristo GTE, R154, GT37, Defsport Wilwood kit, KTS coilovers

12-13-2013, 11:08 PM	#6071
sviellvoicae Zilvia Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Reno Age: 33 Posts: 235 Trader Rating: (7) Feedback Score: 7 reviews	I am running pbm inners so looks like those outters will do the trick! Thanks again guys!

12-17-2013, 02:28 PM	#6077
sleepyS14se Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Georgia Age: 32 Posts: 880 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	i just installed kyb AGX struts on my s14. I have been riding on stock struts and megan springs for awhile and i went ahead and installed the fronts (put them on setting 3 of 4) Today i went and put the REAR AGX's on my s14 and the setting are like 2-8 as where the fronts are only 1-4. That being said, I put the rears on setting 6. I am not used to the feel of driving with new struts, but i feel like i am understeering now when takin turns aggressively. By stiffening the rear, would that induce more oversteer or more understeer??? some one pm me please it would be appreciated. __________________ 95 S14 se RB25DET 348whp

12-19-2013, 02:12 PM	#6080
Motary Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Estonia Age: 32 Posts: 450 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Looks like GKtech bolt on knuckle spacers are out: https://www.facebook.com/gktech/posts/610878858961035?ref=notif&notif_t=like R chassis knuckles are also on 20 pair beta testing https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=610871455628442&set=a.1389000894922 50.23032.133362883379304&type=1&relevant_count=1

12-19-2013, 05:51 PM	#6081
boost addict Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Northwest Indiana Age: 28 Posts: 859 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	Yeaaa I snagged a set early this morning, hyped to get those things!

12-21-2013, 07:42 PM	#6089
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	There really are no downsides to moving the rack forward. Nor is there anything wrong with having more angle than you can use. It may come in handy when navigating into a tight parking space.

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