AznXstazy

hey guys, I'm having a big problem trying to get spark and fuel from my engine. Not sure what it could be. Trying to get some ideas going

ok so i tried doing a wire tuck and finished it. Not the greatest, but not the worst. I depinned and repinned all the plugs and wire back into place. (I took pictures of each one making sure i put them back in the right place) I grounded everything that was on the engine bay harness and on the chassis harness too. I just finished rebuilding my engine I set the timing with the CAS, but it says to align the notch with the orange dot. But I didn't have a orange dot, but I did it to the dot that looked like the one on heavythrottle website.
I double checked the my wiring with someone else on Nico who did a tuck and mine are pined back exactly like his.

I have already checked for power to the injectors and coils with my multimeter nothing. The fuel pump primes because you can hear it and my FPR gauge shows it going to 43 psi and drops down to 23 psi after it stops priming. I know the CAS works because when I have the car turned o the "on" position with the key and I plug the CAS plug in, you hear the fuel pump priming. I took the plug out of the MAF to throw it into limp mode, but still nothing.

I took the ECU apart checking for burn marks, seeing if the ECU might have burnt out, but nothing was burnt. I turned the car to "on" position and I check the ECU for power and there is power. I tried another friends ECU, though it's a tuned ECU, but should still be able to get the car to start, and the same thing happened. No spark no fuel.

So only thing I can think of is a bad ground, maybe a relay or fuse.
just trying to get some ideas going to see what else to test for.

Car: 89 coupe
Engine: S13 sr20det blacktop
Ecu: E5

thanks in advance.

Ceepo

fuel lines backwards? I did that on my sr20det install couldnt get it running for 2 days i swapped them around and it fired right up, spark i would check your grounds(coil packs), and your ignitor chip...

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AznXstazy

ya waiting for a friend to come over now so he can crank and i'm going to test for signal to the igniter chip. there's only 1 ground on the coil pack harness correct? cause that's the only thing i have sticking out and i don't want to cut open my loom to look and see if i tucked it correctly lol.

and on the fuel line. i did have it right the first time, but i switched them thinking i had them on backwards, but I have a aftermarket FPR so I think either way would make it work. but i have it feeding fuel on the front by the throttle body and return on the back by 4th piston.

thakns for the advise Ceepo. appreciate the typed up diagram too lol.

AznXstazy

anyone know what are some symptoms of a bad CAS?

army240

Check your ECU grounds. Yes, there's only one ground for all the coils. Do you have acces to an oscilloscope?! Would be easy to check your CAS with that...

AznXstazy

no i don't have a oscilloscope and I double checked my grounds on the ECU. Everything is grounded.

But i was trying to test the voltage of the CAS and I got numbers that were way weaker than what they're suppose to be. Think I remember reading somewhere it's suppose to be reading 2-3V when cranking, but I was only reading 0.15-0.2V when it was cranking. Can anyone telling if this is correct?

AznXstazy

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...000casdata.jpg

ok, I didn't check the CAS correctly, but I will try again tomorrow if weather is good. but it looks like it's not my CAS either =/

Any other thought guys? i might just rip my whole engine bay harness apart and redo everything. =/


EDIT:

http://www.nissanforums.com/sr20de-d...ce-glitch.html

this is where i'm getting my CAS information incase anyone having the same problem as me.

AznXstazy

oh and also forgot to add. I checked the igniter chip. there was no signal from the ecu going to the igniter chip. i tried all 4 wires and nothing on anyone. so this is what lead me to a bad CAS or a bad ground. going to check for a ECCS relay over by the driver door tomorrow and check for voltage in the ground int he ECU.

sorry for all the bump guys. keep forgetting what else I tried and running low on ideas. =/

4x4le

no fuel and no spark at the same time is a dead give away that the cas is not working. Now since you say you were doing a wire tuck the chances are that you messed up the related wiring instead of the cas itself.

However if the cas does turn out to be bad I have a brand new never been used CAS complete with new gasket and cap Ill let go on the cheap if you need it.

AznXstazy

ya that's what i thought. i read that if the cas is bad, then it would do the same things. i triple check my wiring with everyone's diagram and i have the plug pinned correctly.

Does anyone know where the ECCS relay is? apparently from the diagram I have it connects to the ignition relay as well =/.

I know the black with red stripe wire is suppose to lead to it.

AznXstazy

ok so apparently the ECCS relay is called EGI relay in the engine bay fuse box =/

Source:
Where is the ECCS on a 93 240sx? - Tampa Racing

army240

According to my diagrams, ECCS relay (pin 1 and 3) should be hot at all time, via a fuse. This fuse also bring voltage to the injectors, so they should be hot at all time... I cannot verify that right now because I'm working, but either your eccs fuse is blown, or you have an open on the wire going from the fuse to the eccs relay and injectors... let me know if it solve the problem.

EDIT : And by the way, the ECCS relay control the coils relay, so that's why the ECCS relay could cause a No Spark thing... According to my diagrams, the pin 46 could provide a backup power for the ECCS relay, but I guess that wire could be only Hot in Run...

AznXstazy

thanks army240. I checked the ignition on on my ECU and I am getting 12V. Pin 36 on the ECU. I checked with the ECU cover open and checked pin with the correct colored wire. I thought that was the ECU power, but I'm stupid and can't read correctly =/.

But I did manage to check my CAS and MAF sensors. They both were throwing power back to the ECU, so I can say they are working. The CAS had a bit of weak signal though. FSM said it should range from 0.15V to 5V. I was reading 3V from the 180* degree pin and only 0.2V from the 1* degree pin.

MAF was reading from 0.3-0.7V cranking the motor over.

Today i took the harness back out and i checked everything, unpinning everything that I didn't need. Tapped them off. I regrounded the wire to a better ground, but still nothing. Tomorrow I will try to check the ECU at pin 38.

Any other thoughts or idea's guys? thanks

army240

The power to the injectors are provided trought a red wire via a brown fusible link directly from the battery(it don't pass by the ECU, or a relay) so if you don't have any power there, either that fusible link is blown or this wire is open...

Here's the schematic!



Hope that help...

Frank

AznXstazy

thanks Frank. Do you know where this fuse is? or maybe a bigger schematic?


But today i double checked all of the pins on the ECU. I am definatly getting power to the ECU, but I don't know if the ECU is working correctly.

so apparently there are 3 pins that gives the ECU power.
Pin: 38, 46, 47 and the ECCS Relay Pin 4

checked all 4 pins and they are ALL getting power. reading 11V. BUT my friend said I'm suppose to be on alternating current on my multimeter. I was reading everything in direct current cause I thought that's what the car should be on. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Checked Pin 20, 37 for TPS voltage and it's there.
Check the CAS for voltage and it's there.
Check MAF for signal and it's there

BUT when I unplugged the CAS there was still voltage reading coming from those pins. Also when ever I plug the CAS plug back into the CAS, the fuel pump primes.

also check the grounds for the ECU and they are good. I did this by putting my multimeter to read in Ohms and put one end of the meter to the pinout and the other to the other end of the tucked harness. and i read 0.8 ohm. which means the ground wire is still good. To make sure, there was a spot on the harness where from factor it was crimped. I put another wire to that and grounded that to a new ground. That read 4.0 Ohms.

Going to buy a CAS and ECU to try again.

anymore ideas or suggestions to check would be appreciated.

army240

Ok first, yes you HAVE to be on DC to check voltage on a car, NOT on AC current.

The fusible links are there :



It says it's a brown fusible link.

4 ohms is a pretty big resistance for a ground btw...

I'll tell you which pin should receive Voltage when ignition is ON : 4, 25, 38, 46, 47, 109

Pin 34 should receive voltage when key is in Start position...

Ok i'll tell you what ECU pin should be grounded : 6, 13, 39, 48, 107, 108, 116

The proper way to check your ground is : Put the Multimeter to Ohms(continuity check), put the black probe of the Multimeter on a good ground(the best is the battery neg), disconnect the ECU, the probe the wire or the pin(but be careful not to damage the pin with your probe!!!)

you shouldn't have a lot of resistance... less than 1 ohms i'd say.

Hope that help

Frank

AznXstazy

ya the, i thought the car should had been in DC on my multimeter. cause the car runs on 12V like a computer, but I let me friend convince me it had to be on AC... stupid.

I thought maybe there was a bad ground, so I eliminated that putting a new ground between the ECU pin and the stock ground.

I have already replaced the ECCS relay with another one. It DOES click, but that's about it. i'll double check the wiring tomorrow with a better multimeter or something. thanks

AznXstazy

ok guys, it's been a month since i was able to find another CAS and ECU. The seller's both said they were both in working order when they sold them. I got them put them both in and guess what. Still nothing.

With the new CAS i plugged up everything turned the ignition to "ON" then turned the bottom of the CAS to test the injectors still nothing. Didn't try to start the car, but pretty sure it won't have spark anyway.

So, only thing that's really left is the wiring i did. Mannnnn.

anyone else have any ideas on what to do? or does anyone have a body harness for a s13 with MANUAL EVERYTHING.


EDIT:
oh forgot to mention the new ECU is a E6, but it shouldn't make a difference.

ultraDorksGarage

when i put a haltech standalone in i had a bad cas. funny thing is that u can buy the sensor in the cas from australian parts co. for under 80 bucks new, it's just a photoeye. dunno about stock ecu, but with haltech, i had cas in my hand and turned it manually to here fuel pump, injectors, and spark. i've had a bad clip that connects to cas too.

btw, had an e5 stock ecu, and if no spark AND no fuel(pump or injector) its wiring, ecu, or cas on that ecu.

been almost 3 years since i turned wrenches so i might be mixed up, if u need a wire diagram i can pull one up, just let me know

AznXstazy

thanks ultradorks. I pretty much have all the wiring diagrams there is. It could be my clip since my CAS clip looks kinda messed up =/ I think i have a spare harness I might cut the clip off of.

johngriff

Jump the dash RPM wire to the CAS home wire by the ecu.

You should get an RPM reading if your home window is outputting a signal (however so slight).

Really, you should hear injectors clicking and coils sparking when spinning the cas, but the best way to test for a good/bad cas is with a scope hooked up to the home and trigger and just look for the pattern, if its not there then work your way back.

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AznXstazy

ok guys, it's been a while and weathers finally nice enough to let me work on my car today.

UPDATE:
so i bought a new engine harness plugged it up and replaced the stock E5 ecu with a E6 (only one i could find at the time) and I FINALLY GET SPARK!

but new problem. my injectors aren't spraying now. they kinda "drip" instead of spray

kinda like this, but not has much...
http://www.mercedessource.com/files/newinjtest_1.jpg

then they tend to stop... I pulled the CAS out and turned it by hand and i hear the car priming and the injectors click and spray a bit while i'm turning the CAS. As i'm turning the CAS it "drips" fuel out, but doesn't not spray. i check the voltage as i'm turning the CAS and i read from 3.xx V to 6.xx volts. maybe i set my multimeter to the wrong setting? (set on DCV and i only check #1 injector clip not all of them)

any advice on what else there should be checked for?

4x4le

Check your fuel pressure. Your regulator might not be backing pressure up in the rail.

Sent from my Incredible using tapatalk

AznXstazy

i'm running a "ebay" (not sure of the name) FPR. it shows 2 bar when i prime. (pretty sure have to double check)

misfitsfreak81

sounds like a fuel delivery problem for sure. could be pump, clogged filter, or fpr. the "ebay" one you have has a built in gauge? you can get Nismo adjustable fprs for fairly cheap and just run a inline jegs fuel pressure gauge. works great and super affordable.

Mike
North Shore Performance Auto and Fabrication

AznXstazy

that's the pump is a walbo 255 and it primes to close to 2 bars (still haven't double checked) the fuel system was working fine till my dumbass decided on a wire tuck.

and yes my "ebay" one has a built in gauge.

4x4le

The hose that comes with walbro pumps are junk and melt out allot causing the fuel being pumped to just spray inside your tank. I would not trust an ebay fpr on my engine, nor would I trust the gauge that came on it. I would start with the fpr and gauge (replace it) and then I would replace the fuel filter for the hell of it with a z32 filter unless it is recent. If there were still an issue I would replace the hose coming off the pump (the hose in tank). I have seen more than one that the gas ate.