Built sr starts to overheat under boost - Page 2 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

silviaNC · 08-02-2013, 07:18 AM

I checked all plugs as well. Everything tight.
No boiling water on reservoir
thermo opens and close
I just pulled a/c condenser and the ousher fan that was just sitting in there. Condenser itself was pretty dirty and u couldn't even see throught it plus the push fan just sitting in there my cause airflow issues.
Also just finished the compression test with engine warmed and seems a lil low but even across the border.
130, 129, 130, 130(using 8:5:1 pistons)
After pulling condenser and car watmes up it was 5f cooler at idle.
Will try to drive it today to see how it behaves.
Any other thoughts?

silviaNC · 08-02-2013, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikester

I personally would not drive at 230...

I think you have a leak somewhere. The system functions under pressure; which is what helps keep the coolant from boiling. Build heat by boosting, pressure escapes out of a weak point in the system (boils), temperature rises.

Check the coolant feed/return lines & crush washers (if applicable) on the turbine... It could be tight enough to keep the coolant in under cruise; but not enough to keep it in under boost (heat). To add insult to injury, if it's a leak like I described, only steam will escape and/or the coolant will boil off on the center section of the turbine... so you'll never really see a puddle or drips.

The thermostat is there to keep the coolant to within a specified heat range. Continuously flowing coolant thru the radiator will not cause an overheat; and will definitely not cause the temperature to rise quickly... It will cause the coolant to warm up slowly, then 'overcool' when driving. The reason it opens/closes is to keep it warm (thermo closes, coolant heats up)- but not allow it to get TOO hot.

I think it's a leak at the turbine. If it were the cap, I think there would be coolant boiling out of the reservoir.

I hear a lot of stories about burping the system etc. To this day, I have still never had to burp my coolant system- just fill her up; drive and service as needed until it doesn't need anymore- never overheated.

One last 'totally dumb' thing to check- and I promise I am not trying to insult anyone's intelligence...

since you've been doing all this servicing & flushing... maybe check the drain plug...

Def will look at the water banjo bolts. Havent inspected that. Thanks for the tip

silviaNC · 08-02-2013, 06:12 PM

Immediately after taking off the a/c condensor idle temp went down 5-8f.

-One of the banjo bolts for water feed was tight, but not enough it still turned some(couldve be leaking at high pressure)
-D
Took the car for a 30 mile drive without the a/c condensor. While cruising temp was bout 5 degrees cooler. I step on it a few times a temp will rise to 205, 210 but will cool down quickly after stepping off gas.
Did another pull at 17 psi and stop to see how it cools down temp went up to 215 but stayed there for a few minutes and then cooled down to 200-205.(temp outside was 94f)

So I think got it. Will retest tomorrow but my guess is that ac condenser (wich was dirty as fk) was blocking airflow and or fans are not pulling enough.

Thedriftbadger · 08-02-2013, 07:27 PM

Good to hear.
I still think you have something else going on. Make sure there's no air in the system just to be sure. I don't like that it rises 25* just from accelerating, that's a big jump still, though not as bad as it was before.

silviaNC · 08-02-2013, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thedriftbadger

Good to hear.
I still think you have something else going on. Make sure there's no air in the system just to be sure. I don't like that it rises 25* just from accelerating, that's a big jump still, though not as bad as it was before.

Yeah I will.bleed system again next week. Will.be installing a twin scroll manifold to match the turbo. Ill keep you guys updated

silviaNC · 08-13-2013, 02:28 PM

Found out the water feed banjo washer needed to be replaced but also changed the fan switch on haltech to turn at 195, off 190 and here is a video of the gauge. Look what happens when fans turn on. Gauge automatically jump 10-15 degrees... looks like something is going on with gauge as well. Vid is loud pls turn volume down lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjmE...e_gdata_player

Thedriftbadger · 08-15-2013, 09:49 PM

You got something funky going on with your wiring. The load from the fans is messing with your gauges. The oil pressure moves too. Make sure they are wired completely separately

quickdiversion · 08-19-2013, 05:58 PM

I think there maybe something people are over looking.

Is your water pump old or new? I did not catch that it was replaced.

What can happen with an old water pump, especially in a high reving motor and under boost is that the fins are not spinning at the correct speed they were designed for. The cause the water inside the pump to cavitate, meaning that it will actually start bubbling and creating air pockets in the water. This will keep the water from covering all the surfaces it is supposed to and can make cooling less effective.

*fliprayzin240sx* · 08-19-2013, 07:19 PM

I vote bad HG...atleast one thats slowly going bad. Its probably leaking under load.

silviaNC · 08-19-2013, 10:30 PM

Thanks for the help guys, I fixed the water leak issue and set up fans to 180 on/170off and car stays between 185/195 so I think I got it straight. Still need to take some time and go thru the gauges wiring and alternator check when I get a day off. Water pump.is fairly new.
I checked evrything relater to hg and block and everything is good. I just hit 1k miles on build

Mikester · 08-22-2013, 01:42 PM

^^One last thing you may not want to hear-

The absolute BEST cooling you will ever get will be with a clutch fan & OEM shroud.

I run the GKtech clutch fan w/OEM shroud, Koyo rad, cooling plate & Nismo thermo... On my setup, there is a FMIC, oil cooler & AC condenser in line before the radiator... Coolant temp rarely goes above 70*C with the AC blasting in bumper to bumper traffic on a 100deg day. Again, I have NEVER had to bleed my system when servicing...

Sounds like you may have it licked- but still something you may want to consider.

inopsey · 08-22-2013, 01:49 PM

70c is way to cold to operate this engine

codyace · 08-22-2013, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickdiversion

I think there maybe something people are over looking.

Is your water pump old or new? I did not catch that it was replaced.

What can happen with an old water pump, especially in a high reving motor and under boost is that the fins are not spinning at the correct speed they were designed for. The cause the water inside the pump to cavitate, meaning that it will actually start bubbling and creating air pockets in the water. This will keep the water from covering all the surfaces it is supposed to and can make cooling less effective.

Age of a waterpump isn't a 100% definitive reason for poor working ability. Sure the bearings can go bad, but it's not like it's 'not going to work' as well as a new one, this side of the impellars rotting or rusting way, which is highly unlikely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fliprayzin240sx

I vote bad HG...atleast one thats slowly going bad. Its probably leaking under load.

HG, a bad radiator cap, or a fan that isn't working properly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by silviaNC

Thanks for the help guys, I fixed the water leak issue and set up fans to 180 on/170off and car stays between 185/195 so I think I got it straight. Still need to take some time and go thru the gauges wiring and alternator check when I get a day off. Water pump.is fairly new.
I checked evrything relater to hg and block and everything is good. I just hit 1k miles on build

I think it's less a mechanical issue, and more electronically related like you've posted. Get the gauges on their own system, and use proper relays/fuse/gauge of wire to keep them seperate.

Having the E fans come on at 180 is a much better idea too, have them shut off at the same time.

Also, where is your sender for coolant temp located?

Mikester · 08-22-2013, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inopsey

70c is way to cold to operate this engine

It's fully built & tuned for the lower coolant temps... my last setup was not fully built, but had a full compliment of bolt-ons and was tuned for it as well.... never had issues.

It was actually pretty nice sitting in line to drag race in the Okinawa summers- many guys had to shut their cars down etc for fear of overheating... I just sat there with the windows shut and the AC blasting hahaha! Same deal here in the US- I love it!

inopsey · 08-22-2013, 02:53 PM

didnt know you could 'tune' for the lack of thermal expansion of engine parts causing tolerances to be off leading to premature engine wear.....

Mikester · 08-22-2013, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inopsey

didnt know you could 'tune' for the lack of thermal expansion of engine parts causing tolerances to be off leading to premature engine wear.....

Very valid point sir...

Not so much that... What I meant was that its tuned fuel & timing-wise for the lower temps & the lack of O2 sensor. I've read about what you are describing; and have yet to see a 'minimum or things will start to fail prematurely' operating temp. IMHO, 150-170F isn't ridiculously low.

silviaNC · 08-22-2013, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codyace

Age of a waterpump isn't a 100% definitive reason for poor working ability. Sure the bearings can go bad, but it's not like it's 'not going to work' as well as a new one, this side of the impellars rotting or rusting way, which is highly unlikely.

HG, a bad radiator cap, or a fan that isn't working properly.

I think it's less a mechanical issue, and more electronically related like you've posted. Get the gauges on their own system, and use proper relays/fuse/gauge of wire to keep them seperate.

Having the E fans come on at 180 is a much better idea too, have them shut off at the same time.

Also, where is your sender for coolant temp located?

Haltech is using factory temp sender on lower neck.
I've been driving the car for a few days with no problem. Even with the gauge jumping 10-15 degree problem I don't see the temp going over 205 ( 195 in reality at stop traffic) when I'm cruising and fans are off I seen temps below 180.
I def going to run a separate wiring/relays for gauges. They might be hooked up to the radio fuse wich I know it sucks)

silviaNC · 08-22-2013, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikester

^^One last thing you may not want to hear-

The absolute BEST cooling you will ever get will be with a clutch fan & OEM shroud.

I run the GKtech clutch fan w/OEM shroud, Koyo rad, cooling plate & Nismo thermo... On my setup, there is a FMIC, oil cooler & AC condenser in line before the radiator... Coolant temp rarely goes above 70*C with the AC blasting in bumper to bumper traffic on a 100deg day. Again, I have NEVER had to bleed my system when servicing...

Sounds like you may have it licked- but still something you may want to consider.

Because my setup I'm not able to run shroud. Imo 70c might be too low. Everywhere I ask 180-195f is optimal for fuel. I'm not an expert by any means but seems about right.

codyace · 08-22-2013, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silviaNC

Haltech is using factory temp sender on lower neck.
I've been driving the car for a few days with no problem. Even with the gauge jumping 10-15 degree problem I don't see the temp going over 205 ( 195 in reality at stop traffic) when I'm cruising and fans are off I seen temps below 180.
I def going to run a separate wiring/relays for gauges. They might be hooked up to the radio fuse wich I know it sucks)

205 is great post head, but terrible before head.

not that kinda head...

silviaNC · 08-22-2013, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codyace

205 is great post head, but terrible before head.

not that kinda head...

Yeah readings are from upper neck. That's why I have haltech setup to 180 on-170 off(reads lower neck stock temp sensor) 15 f difference on the upper neck.

I do see the stock temp gauge is all over the place. Goes up to the H then half then up. Mostly stays right below H

Mikester · 08-23-2013, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codyace

205 is great post head, but terrible before head.

Right. With respect to the other guy's input, I only get my coolant temp on the Commander from the lower neck (pre-head) OEM sensor. Pretty sure it's safe to say that the temps are higher at the upper neck. I think this is maybe something that people may not consider when commenting on my uber-low temps; and maybe something I should say when giving out the info. As a fan of the KISS concept, I have no desire to take a second temp reading from the upper neck.

However, this being silviaNC's thread- I don't have the link to provide, but on a quick search, I found a 2008-2009-ish post by GSXRJordan talking about the SR head reaching max volumetric efficiency around 200-something degrees...

silviaNC · 08-26-2013, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikester

Right. With respect to the other guy's input, I only get my coolant temp on the Commander from the lower neck (pre-head) OEM sensor. Pretty sure it's safe to say that the temps are higher at the upper neck. I think this is maybe something that people may not consider when commenting on my uber-low temps; and maybe something I should say when giving out the info. As a fan of the KISS concept, I have no desire to take a second temp reading from the upper neck.

However, this being silviaNC's thread- I don't have the link to provide, but on a quick search, I found a 2008-2009-ish post by GSXRJordan talking about the SR head reaching max volumetric efficiency around 200-something degrees...

Thanks for the info. Def search on that.havent got a chance to drive car around because im in the middle of doing a
intake cam swap, testimg a twin scroll manifold and installing a water meth kit but will update soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angruela

what pressure cap are you running?

1.1bar

aga · 08-27-2013, 02:37 AM

are your gauges accurate in the first place? i dont know that brand, but that jump when the fans come on spells to me electrical gremlins or bad gauge.

08-19-2013, 07:19 PM	#39
fliprayzin240sx Man w/ CTSV & a Car Seat Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 17,998 Trader Rating: (19) Rides Gallery: fliprayzin240sx Feedback Score: 19 reviews	I vote bad HG...atleast one thats slowly going bad. Its probably leaking under load. __________________ If you think Zilvia has too many assholes... CLICK HERE!!!

08-22-2013, 01:42 PM	#41
Mikester Nissanaholic! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Kathleen, GA Age: 50 Posts: 1,938 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	^^One last thing you may not want to hear- The absolute BEST cooling you will ever get will be with a clutch fan & OEM shroud. I run the GKtech clutch fan w/OEM shroud, Koyo rad, cooling plate & Nismo thermo... On my setup, there is a FMIC, oil cooler & AC condenser in line before the radiator... Coolant temp rarely goes above 70*C with the AC blasting in bumper to bumper traffic on a 100deg day. Again, I have NEVER had to bleed my system when servicing... Sounds like you may have it licked- but still something you may want to consider. __________________

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08-02-2013, 07:18 AM	#31
silviaNC Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: North Carolina Age: 37 Posts: 937 Trader Rating: (17) Feedback Score: 17 reviews	I checked all plugs as well. Everything tight. No boiling water on reservoir thermo opens and close I just pulled a/c condenser and the ousher fan that was just sitting in there. Condenser itself was pretty dirty and u couldn't even see throught it plus the push fan just sitting in there my cause airflow issues. Also just finished the compression test with engine warmed and seems a lil low but even across the border. 130, 129, 130, 130(using 8:5:1 pistons) After pulling condenser and car watmes up it was 5f cooler at idle. Will try to drive it today to see how it behaves. Any other thoughts?

08-02-2013, 06:12 PM	#33
silviaNC Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: North Carolina Age: 37 Posts: 937 Trader Rating: (17) Feedback Score: 17 reviews	Immediately after taking off the a/c condensor idle temp went down 5-8f. -One of the banjo bolts for water feed was tight, but not enough it still turned some(couldve be leaking at high pressure) -D Took the car for a 30 mile drive without the a/c condensor. While cruising temp was bout 5 degrees cooler. I step on it a few times a temp will rise to 205, 210 but will cool down quickly after stepping off gas. Did another pull at 17 psi and stop to see how it cools down temp went up to 215 but stayed there for a few minutes and then cooled down to 200-205.(temp outside was 94f) So I think got it. Will retest tomorrow but my guess is that ac condenser (wich was dirty as fk) was blocking airflow and or fans are not pulling enough.

08-02-2013, 07:27 PM	#34
Thedriftbadger Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: ontario Posts: 305 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Good to hear. I still think you have something else going on. Make sure there's no air in the system just to be sure. I don't like that it rises 25* just from accelerating, that's a big jump still, though not as bad as it was before.

08-13-2013, 02:28 PM	#36
silviaNC Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: North Carolina Age: 37 Posts: 937 Trader Rating: (17) Feedback Score: 17 reviews	Found out the water feed banjo washer needed to be replaced but also changed the fan switch on haltech to turn at 195, off 190 and here is a video of the gauge. Look what happens when fans turn on. Gauge automatically jump 10-15 degrees... looks like something is going on with gauge as well. Vid is loud pls turn volume down lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjmE...e_gdata_player

08-15-2013, 09:49 PM	#37
Thedriftbadger Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: ontario Posts: 305 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	You got something funky going on with your wiring. The load from the fans is messing with your gauges. The oil pressure moves too. Make sure they are wired completely separately

08-19-2013, 05:58 PM	#38
quickdiversion Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: nj Age: 38 Posts: 341 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	I think there maybe something people are over looking. Is your water pump old or new? I did not catch that it was replaced. What can happen with an old water pump, especially in a high reving motor and under boost is that the fins are not spinning at the correct speed they were designed for. The cause the water inside the pump to cavitate, meaning that it will actually start bubbling and creating air pockets in the water. This will keep the water from covering all the surfaces it is supposed to and can make cooling less effective.

08-19-2013, 10:30 PM	#40
silviaNC Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: North Carolina Age: 37 Posts: 937 Trader Rating: (17) Feedback Score: 17 reviews	Thanks for the help guys, I fixed the water leak issue and set up fans to 180 on/170off and car stays between 185/195 so I think I got it straight. Still need to take some time and go thru the gauges wiring and alternator check when I get a day off. Water pump.is fairly new. I checked evrything relater to hg and block and everything is good. I just hit 1k miles on build

08-22-2013, 01:49 PM	#42
inopsey Nissanaholic! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: canada Posts: 1,665 Trader Rating: (21) Feedback Score: 21 reviews	70c is way to cold to operate this engine

08-22-2013, 02:53 PM	#45
inopsey Nissanaholic! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: canada Posts: 1,665 Trader Rating: (21) Feedback Score: 21 reviews	didnt know you could 'tune' for the lack of thermal expansion of engine parts causing tolerances to be off leading to premature engine wear.....

08-27-2013, 02:37 AM	#53
aga Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Athens, Greece Age: 43 Posts: 580 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	are your gauges accurate in the first place? i dont know that brand, but that jump when the fans come on spells to me electrical gremlins or bad gauge.