blow-thru set up S13 SR - Page 2 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

bussitcustoms · 05-09-2012, 02:49 PM

Hater.

GroundPerformance · 05-09-2012, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryandevilhorns

Hopefully you do. I'm sure the tow truck driver will complement your gangster blow-through setup though.

Actually running a blow thru setup will allow you to avoid the tow truck.. Busting open or leaky charge piping is a common issue with turbo car running any event. In the case of punctured charge piping your car will practically just run like NA at that stage and make it home.

Kingtal0n · 05-10-2012, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GroundPerformance

Actually running a blow thru setup will allow you to avoid the tow truck.. Busting open or leaky charge piping is a common issue with turbo car running any event. In the case of punctured charge piping your car will practically just run like NA at that stage and make it home.

pro to this: car continues to run even if the intercooler plumbing fails. Drive it home without piping.

con to this: slightly leaky intercooler plumbing undetectable. Loss in turbocharger efficiency undetectable.

Kingtal0n · 05-10-2012, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blundar

I've run several blow-though setups on Nissans with great success... Then again, I'm a tuner and I'm not afraid of tuning a MAF transfer function/VQ curve. With that said, I think a *modern* blow-through setup (like what GroundPerformance is advocating above) is pure awesomeness. I've dealt with them countless times in the domestic world and they performed flawlessly. They continue to do so on Nissans. As long as you can keep the sensor element clean, they provide more consistent behavior across different conditions, weather, etc. than just about anything including a MAP based system.

Oh yeah, modern Hitachi meters seem to do the best with blow through. These are generally the "slot-style" meters that screw into a flange. Examples: 05-10 Mustang, HPX, Pro-M slot style, OEM 350Z to name a few. As long as it has VOLTAGE output not FREQUENCY output, it should be at least usable. Older MAF elements seem to fare less well. I'm not sure why.

One thing though - YOU CANNOT ACHIEVE SUCCESS WITH A BLOW THROUGH MAF SETUP WITHOUT EXTENSIVE TUNING. Blow through completely changes how a meter reads - you might as well have put a different meter on the car. Even if I had tuned a car with the exact same meter in the exact same diameter pipe I wouldn't call a mail-order tune for a blow-through setup more than a "basemap" because of how sensitive the sensors are to orientation and other minute differences. Blow through makes the meter *EXTREMELY* sensitive to orientation because of the difference in air speed at various parts of the pipe. This is particularly true close to bends or angles. Bottom line: you will need a CUSTOM tune to run a blow through setup effectively. Virgin stock ECUs will not do it - you will need at a minimum a ROM board and a custom tune.

I've run:
-HPX Meter Blow through MAF 3.5" Charge pipes RB26 on R32 ECU (looks to be able to read ~1000-1200hp, 720hp and counting so far)
-Z32 MAF blow through stock housing on RB20 with RB20 ECU (looks to be able to read about 375-400hp, ~340hp so far)
-HPX meter blow through MAF 3" Charget pipes with Nismotronic NEMU setup (basemapped, still needs fully tuned)
-Stock 05 Mustang meter with voltage diviider in 2.75" pipes Nismotronic NEMU setup (basemapped, still needs tuned)

Beautiful post. If I may extract a few necessary objectives from this:

1. Expertise with parabolic hot-wire curves necessity.
2. sensor must remain clean
3. sensor orientation and pipe curvature must planned, modified, accurate.

Would you agree that in a nutshell, this is what you said?

JFoxx · 05-10-2012, 07:53 AM

what i have.....
aem V2 EMS
AEM IAT
GM 3Bar Map
Dyno tuned.....

if your going to do it....do it right... or go buy a honda...

dorifto_demon · 05-10-2012, 07:56 AM

ive personally seen/installed/part tuned sr with blow through maf before..
but that was with z32 and power fc..
booost upwards to 1.6bar and no popping hose..
runs fine..

so yeah..

JFoxx · 05-10-2012, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dorifto_demon

ive personally seen/installed/part tuned sr with blow through maf before..
but that was with z32 and power fc..
booost upwards to 1.6bar and no popping hose..
runs fine..

so yeah..

key words.... "with a power fc""

any why would you spend the money on a power fc and then try to use a maf blowthrough setup? thats like owning a ferrarri but putting economy tires on it...

moral of the story, should have spent the extra money on a D-jethro...

GroundPerformance · 05-10-2012, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

con to this: slightly leaky intercooler plumbing undetectable. Loss in turbocharger efficiency undetectable.

LMAO... Leaky plumbing and inefficient turbo now for running blow thru MAF config. I guess judging from your other posts would this be also a candidate for a motor not lasting 5k miles.

JKTUNING · 05-10-2012, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blundar

I've run several blow-though setups on Nissans with great success... Then again, I'm a tuner and I'm not afraid of tuning a MAF transfer function/VQ curve. With that said, I think a *modern* blow-through setup (like what GroundPerformance is advocating above) is pure awesomeness. I've dealt with them countless times in the domestic world and they performed flawlessly. They continue to do so on Nissans. As long as you can keep the sensor element clean, they provide more consistent behavior across different conditions, weather, etc. than just about anything including a MAP based system.

Oh yeah, modern Hitachi meters seem to do the best with blow through. These are generally the "slot-style" meters that screw into a flange. Examples: 05-10 Mustang, HPX, Pro-M slot style, OEM 350Z to name a few. As long as it has VOLTAGE output not FREQUENCY output, it should be at least usable. Older MAF elements seem to fare less well. I'm not sure why.

One thing though - YOU CANNOT ACHIEVE SUCCESS WITH A BLOW THROUGH MAF SETUP WITHOUT EXTENSIVE TUNING. Blow through completely changes how a meter reads - you might as well have put a different meter on the car. Even if I had tuned a car with the exact same meter in the exact same diameter pipe I wouldn't call a mail-order tune for a blow-through setup more than a "basemap" because of how sensitive the sensors are to orientation and other minute differences. Blow through makes the meter *EXTREMELY* sensitive to orientation because of the difference in air speed at various parts of the pipe. This is particularly true close to bends or angles. Bottom line: you will need a CUSTOM tune to run a blow through setup effectively. Virgin stock ECUs will not do it - you will need at a minimum a ROM board and a custom tune.

I've run:
-HPX Meter Blow through MAF 3.5" Charge pipes RB26 on R32 ECU (looks to be able to read ~1000-1200hp, 720hp and counting so far)
-Z32 MAF blow through stock housing on RB20 with RB20 ECU (looks to be able to read about 375-400hp, ~340hp so far)
-HPX meter blow through MAF 3" Charget pipes with Nismotronic NEMU setup (basemapped, still needs fully tuned)
-Stock 05 Mustang meter with voltage diviider in 2.75" pipes Nismotronic NEMU setup (basemapped, still needs tuned)

This pretty much sums it up.. running a blow through setup can definitely work very well if you take the time to set it up and tune it properly.

Take most of the 350/370z systems for example that use a blow through style sensor with a weld on flange, it makes the install SUPER easy and makes packaging very nice as well.

Going speed density is also a good option and will generally be less expensive as far as the sensors and setup are concerned.

Kingtal0n · 05-10-2012, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GroundPerformance

LMAO... Leaky plumbing and inefficient turbo now for running blow thru MAF config. I guess judging from your other posts would this be also a candidate for a motor not lasting 5k miles.

Air that leaks from the intercooler plumbing adds to the exhaust backpressure... sorry if you didnt know. Ask me how, if you forgot.

blundar · 05-11-2012, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

Beautiful post. If I may extract a few necessary objectives from this:

1. Expertise with parabolic hot-wire curves necessity.
2. sensor must remain clean
3. sensor orientation and pipe curvature must planned, modified, accurate.

Would you agree that in a nutshell, this is what you said?

Yeah, plus be mindful of how much air you need.

I don't know where the 350Z sensors fit in the mix, but...

05-07 mustang < 08-10 mustang < GT500 < HPX ~= ProM Gen1 < HPX-X ~= ProM Super

Going to be trying to meter 1000+ whp (through a powerglide) of air using a HPX-X sensor in a 3" pipe in a week or so once all the parts end up on the car. We'll see how it goes...

Nikeboy355 · 05-11-2012, 11:35 PM

This setup is not a good idea as others have said...

If you are on a limited budget, go with a tuned ECU...
If you have enough for AEM EMS and a tuner, you will not regret it...

Croustibat · 05-12-2012, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Om1kron

Great, so because it's been done million's of times you lied about searching and you have all of the info you need. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

It is a fucking sensor, do you really believe changing its position from the place it was designed to go will do better ? Because if you do, i can sell you magnets to polarize your fuel and various magic additives, along with zero gravity generators...

Croustibat · 05-12-2012, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blundar

[snip]
-Z32 MAF blow through stock housing on RB20 with RB20 ECU (looks to be able to read about 375-400hp, ~340hp so far)

totally agree with you on the sniped part.

As for Z32 MAFs, they can do 500HP on CAs and SRs. At stock location, no need to move it.

05-11-2012, 11:35 PM	#42
Nikeboy355 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Age: 41 Posts: 734 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	This setup is not a good idea as others have said... If you are on a limited budget, go with a tuned ECU... If you have enough for AEM EMS and a tuner, you will not regret it... __________________ http://respectvolkracing.blogspot.com/

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05-09-2012, 02:49 PM	#31
bussitcustoms Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: philly pa Posts: 409 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Hater.

05-10-2012, 07:53 AM	#35
JFoxx BANNED Join Date: May 2008 Location: SD & OC Posts: 722 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	what i have..... aem V2 EMS AEM IAT GM 3Bar Map Dyno tuned..... if your going to do it....do it right... or go buy a honda...

05-10-2012, 07:56 AM	#36
dorifto_demon Join Date: May 2007 Location: Malaysia Posts: 26 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	ive personally seen/installed/part tuned sr with blow through maf before.. but that was with z32 and power fc.. booost upwards to 1.6bar and no popping hose.. runs fine.. so yeah..