no spark and possible no fuel please help - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

moses · 11-22-2007, 05:25 PM

First of all Happy Thanksgiving. But seriously I have a problem. I just got done putting in my s13 blacktop sr20det and tried to start it up but nothing. I can hear my fuel pump coming on and i got oil pressure. Its just when I pulled the spark plugs out they were clean. It had a faint smell of fuel though. It turned over once when i sprayed carb cleaner in there but only that one time. The only idea I have is it is my ignitor. Does anyone know how to test it? And i did do my own wiring but i dont see anywhere where i would have messed with spark. Please help

LimitedEdition · 11-22-2007, 05:30 PM

Which wiring diagram did you use?

Assuming you just did the swap, When you did the swap, did you put the fuel lines on backwards?

duffman1278 · 11-22-2007, 05:31 PM

Did you check for spark individually, by grounding the spark plug inside the coil, to the block?

moses · 11-22-2007, 06:32 PM

I used heavy throttle mostly for the wiring and i got the fuel filter line going to the front of the engine and the other line going to the back. and about the grounding the spark plug inside the coil. Is there any easy way to do this? Thanks a lot guys. And i just tried the thing that duffman1278 did with grounding the thin red/black wire and it still diddnt work.

cotbu · 11-22-2007, 06:37 PM

Quote:

I got the fuel filter line going to the front of the engine and the other line going to the back.

this is one problem swap them unless you have an aftermarket rail

moses · 11-22-2007, 06:41 PM

which line goes to the fuel pressure regulator. the reason i ask is because i have an after market intake manifold (greddy knockoff) and the lines are in different spots.

LimitedEdition · 11-22-2007, 06:44 PM

back of what? the engine? FPR is in the back.

looking at the intake manifold, which line is hooked to the left hardline and which is hook to the right hardline? iirc the feedlline (one with fuel filter on it) should be the right hardline and the return on left. DONT QUOTE ME.

moses · 11-22-2007, 07:00 PM

The hard lines are taken out. on the front side fuel rail you can see the fpr and that one is hooked up to the fuel filter. and the retern line is hooked up to the one on back of fuel line.

duffman1278 · 11-22-2007, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moses

I used heavy throttle mostly for the wiring and i got the fuel filter line going to the front of the engine and the other line going to the back. and about the grounding the spark plug inside the coil. Is there any easy way to do this? Thanks a lot guys. And i just tried the thing that duffman1278 did with grounding the thin red/black wire and it still diddnt work.

Wait, did you ground the spark plug itself?? or the wire? And if you don't see spark than its either, your CAS, ignitor,wiring, or ECU issue, maybe your coilpacks. Check the resistance on the coilpacks, in the FSM for the S14 SR, its page EC-202

moses · 11-22-2007, 07:15 PM

how are you suppose to ground the spark plug when it is in the coil pack? wouldnt the spark plug just fall out? what is the easiest way to do it?

duffman1278 · 11-22-2007, 08:05 PM

No no, you put the spark plug in the coil pack, so take it out of the block and than shove it in the coil, move the coil over and have the threads of the spark plug touch the metal from the block or the letters on the valve cover, after that, have someone crank the engine, you should be able to see spark, it'll be really obvious, you can't miss the light. just DON'T touch the spark plug as its being cranked, and remove the fuel pump fuse so it wont start up. I suggest grabbing the coilpack from the top, so you don't hurt yourself

moses · 11-22-2007, 08:24 PM

About the fuel lines in this pic he has the fuel pump hooked in the back and the other fuel line going to the front of the engine. Do you know if that is right? I got mine going the other way. How bad is it if it is hooked up backwards?

moses · 11-22-2007, 08:26 PM

im new at this and i dont know how to put pics up. this is the website http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/228716. it is in the middle of the page. there talkin about something totally different but it has a pic of his fuel lines.

g6civcx · 11-22-2007, 08:43 PM

Look at the pix. The supply line goes from the filter into the fuel raile like you see there. The fuel pressure regulator is the cylindrical looking thing on the fuel rail towards the front of the car.

The return line goes from the FPR to the return line on the chassis.

If you mix up these 2 lines it will not run.

http://www.srswap.com/faq/index.asp
Scroll down to Fuel System for more info.

moses · 11-22-2007, 10:10 PM

ok i just switched the fuel lines and still nothing, but i still cant smell fuel on the spark plugs. Also i tested to see if the spark plugs were sparking and nothing. so now i have no clue what to do. i need to find out how to check the ignitor. any ideas

g6civcx · 11-22-2007, 10:30 PM

Is the engine cranking?

moses · 11-22-2007, 10:36 PM

yes its cranking, but it only turned over once for a sec

moses · 11-23-2007, 12:27 AM

now i dont know if this is good news or not but i just checked all the spark plugs for spark and it turns out #3 had spark. i dont know what this means or if i can rule out anything? does anyone have any ideas? and i still cant smell any fuel on the spark plugs

Ca_laurier · 11-23-2007, 12:41 AM

aww i am in the same boat as you dude. i gave up and am just sending it to the local shop soon to get it fixed

moses · 11-23-2007, 12:43 AM

im in arkansas so im on my own. can you let me know what they find out?

g6civcx · 11-23-2007, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moses

yes its cranking, but it only turned over once for a sec

I would check starter connection and ground. You need to get it cranking first before you can check spark or fuel.

Nothing's turning so nothing is firing and no fuel is being sprayed into the cylinder.

unicoladron · 11-23-2007, 07:58 AM

ok so you said cylinder # 3 has spark. so you know the coilpack, wiring, and pug is good for cyl # 3. now it is a process of elimination. try this:

1. take the coilpack from cyl # 3 and plug it into cyl # 1 and test for spark. repeat the same steps for cyl # 2 and 4. this will determine if your ignitor is working SOMEWHAT properly. so if you do this, and you see that you have spark on cyl's # 1, 2, and 4 using the coilpack that is in good working order, your ignitor is fine, and perhaps your coilpacks, and/or coilpack wiring have gone bad. SO, if this test shows you have spark on ALL packs, perhaps your timing is off and you can follow the CAS timing procedure found on frsport.com and heavythrottle.com (aka srswap.com). also, make sure the wiring for your CAS is okay. the CAS tells the coils when to fire, so again, make sure your CAS wiring is ok and the CAS itself is alright.

EDIT: oh shit, i missed the post where you said it wasn't even really cranking. yeah, make sure your battery is good, make sure your battery terminals have a good connection, make sure your grounds are ok (clean where grounds contact chassis/engine), and make sure your lower engine harness is not shorting out anywhere.

moses · 11-23-2007, 10:52 AM

ok so i think i miss lead you guys. it is cranking. what i meant was it is not firing up. but did what unicoladron said to do about moving the coilpacks around and i got spark also in #1, but not in #2 and #4. it was a weak spark but my battery is dying after all these tries. im going to go get it charged but what does that mean now?

moses · 11-23-2007, 12:38 PM

can someone tell me how to post pics off my computer. and also where is the best place for the battery ground to hook up at?

moses · 11-23-2007, 02:12 PM

c mon guys i need some help. does any one know if all the black wires by the battery need to be grounded. i diddnt because none of the websites said to. And when i turn my key to the on position my ecu doesnt flash when i turn that little screw. what does all this mean? please help!!!

unicoladron · 11-23-2007, 02:25 PM

alright dude:

1. you can use photobucket.com or imageshack.com to host photos on-line. you load them from your digi cam to your PC, then from your PC to one of those photo hosting websites, i prefer photobucket.com, very simple to use. there is no way to directly copy files from your PC to zilvia.net.

2. you really want to perform this test with a nicely charged battery so try the test i told you to again and report back.

3. yes the negative terminal of your battery needs to be grounded to your chassis and your engine. like i stated previously, you def want to clean those contacts so a nice healthy current flows through your wiring and you have a clean ground.

4. MAKE SURE your connectors that connect to the injectors from the wiring harness are seated all the way and are secure (this happened to me once), make sure the coilpack wiring is not frayed or broken anywhere, follow them back behind your cyl head between the firewall, they lead to another connector, make sure that is secure.

but it now appears that MAYBE your ignightor is not firing on two cylinders which is a decent hypothesis at this point but i'm not to sure since you said your battery was dying, OR it's a wiring problem. did ANYONE fuck with your harness? who rewired it for the swap?

unicoladron · 11-23-2007, 02:27 PM

also did you do what i said to check the CAS wiring, make sure the CAS wiring harness connector is properly seated and making contact, and while your at it verify ALL wiring harness connections are secure and not corroded or anything.

unicoladron · 11-23-2007, 02:32 PM

again, you can basically ground anywhere that is metal on the chassis, make sure you clean all crap/paint away so you get a nice metal on metal contact. below is a picture of the OEM grounding location. the OEM 240sx s13 ground goes from the negative battery terminal > battery tray > intake mani (i used MSPAINT to indicate the intake manifold grounding location with a red box, i hope you're not color blind lol)

moses · 11-23-2007, 04:57 PM

ok i was chraging one battery and i used the other almost dead one to check where i was getting power to in my ecu and guess what i found out. i was looking the E5 pinout and for some reason the wire colors werent matching up and there were some missing where it wasnt suppose to. so i go looking around online to see if anyone eles had a ecu pinout that would work with my harness. And come to kind out that my harness matches up with a J4/J5 ECU which is a 97-98 S13 blacktop. i diddnt know they made s13s in 97-98. so do you think that i should get a different ecu or harness? Is there any was to see what year engine i have by looking at it? hopefully the company that sold me it will just give me the right ecu. This sucks. thanks for everyones help. it will be a while before i get the ecu in and hopefully it starts right up but if not, ill be back here.

cotbu · 11-23-2007, 07:13 PM

If you want I can walk you through a repin of the ecu harness.

Quote:

The wrong ECU is not enough to keep an sr20 owner down.

11-23-2007, 07:58 AM	#22
unicoladron Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Long Island, NY Age: 37 Posts: 568 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	ok so you said cylinder # 3 has spark. so you know the coilpack, wiring, and pug is good for cyl # 3. now it is a process of elimination. try this: 1. take the coilpack from cyl # 3 and plug it into cyl # 1 and test for spark. repeat the same steps for cyl # 2 and 4. this will determine if your ignitor is working SOMEWHAT properly. so if you do this, and you see that you have spark on cyl's # 1, 2, and 4 using the coilpack that is in good working order, your ignitor is fine, and perhaps your coilpacks, and/or coilpack wiring have gone bad. SO, if this test shows you have spark on ALL packs, perhaps your timing is off and you can follow the CAS timing procedure found on frsport.com and heavythrottle.com (aka srswap.com). also, make sure the wiring for your CAS is okay. the CAS tells the coils when to fire, so again, make sure your CAS wiring is ok and the CAS itself is alright. EDIT: oh shit, i missed the post where you said it wasn't even really cranking. yeah, make sure your battery is good, make sure your battery terminals have a good connection, make sure your grounds are ok (clean where grounds contact chassis/engine), and make sure your lower engine harness is not shorting out anywhere. __________________ 1993 KA24DE for sale with 180k..running when pulled.... need to get rid of ASAP...i'm moving

11-23-2007, 02:25 PM	#26
unicoladron Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Long Island, NY Age: 37 Posts: 568 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	alright dude: 1. you can use photobucket.com or imageshack.com to host photos on-line. you load them from your digi cam to your PC, then from your PC to one of those photo hosting websites, i prefer photobucket.com, very simple to use. there is no way to directly copy files from your PC to zilvia.net. 2. you really want to perform this test with a nicely charged battery so try the test i told you to again and report back. 3. yes the negative terminal of your battery needs to be grounded to your chassis and your engine. like i stated previously, you def want to clean those contacts so a nice healthy current flows through your wiring and you have a clean ground. 4. MAKE SURE your connectors that connect to the injectors from the wiring harness are seated all the way and are secure (this happened to me once), make sure the coilpack wiring is not frayed or broken anywhere, follow them back behind your cyl head between the firewall, they lead to another connector, make sure that is secure. but it now appears that MAYBE your ignightor is not firing on two cylinders which is a decent hypothesis at this point but i'm not to sure since you said your battery was dying, OR it's a wiring problem. did ANYONE fuck with your harness? who rewired it for the swap? __________________ 1993 KA24DE for sale with 180k..running when pulled.... need to get rid of ASAP...i'm moving

11-23-2007, 02:27 PM	#27
unicoladron Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Long Island, NY Age: 37 Posts: 568 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	also did you do what i said to check the CAS wiring, make sure the CAS wiring harness connector is properly seated and making contact, and while your at it verify ALL wiring harness connections are secure and not corroded or anything. __________________ 1993 KA24DE for sale with 180k..running when pulled.... need to get rid of ASAP...i'm moving

11-23-2007, 02:32 PM	#28
unicoladron Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Long Island, NY Age: 37 Posts: 568 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	again, you can basically ground anywhere that is metal on the chassis, make sure you clean all crap/paint away so you get a nice metal on metal contact. below is a picture of the OEM grounding location. the OEM 240sx s13 ground goes from the negative battery terminal > battery tray > intake mani (i used MSPAINT to indicate the intake manifold grounding location with a red box, i hope you're not color blind lol) __________________ 1993 KA24DE for sale with 180k..running when pulled.... need to get rid of ASAP...i'm moving

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11-22-2007, 05:25 PM	#1
moses Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Jacksonville, ar Age: 34 Posts: 555 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: moses Feedback Score: 2 reviews	no spark and possible no fuel please help First of all Happy Thanksgiving. But seriously I have a problem. I just got done putting in my s13 blacktop sr20det and tried to start it up but nothing. I can hear my fuel pump coming on and i got oil pressure. Its just when I pulled the spark plugs out they were clean. It had a faint smell of fuel though. It turned over once when i sprayed carb cleaner in there but only that one time. The only idea I have is it is my ignitor. Does anyone know how to test it? And i did do my own wiring but i dont see anywhere where i would have messed with spark. Please help

11-22-2007, 05:30 PM	#2
LimitedEdition BANNED Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: MD Age: 35 Posts: 353 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Which wiring diagram did you use? Assuming you just did the swap, When you did the swap, did you put the fuel lines on backwards?

11-22-2007, 05:31 PM	#3
duffman1278 Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Covina Age: 33 Posts: 2,844 Trader Rating: (8) Rides Gallery: duffman1278 Feedback Score: 8 reviews	Did you check for spark individually, by grounding the spark plug inside the coil, to the block?

11-22-2007, 06:32 PM	#4
moses Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Jacksonville, ar Age: 34 Posts: 555 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: moses Feedback Score: 2 reviews	I used heavy throttle mostly for the wiring and i got the fuel filter line going to the front of the engine and the other line going to the back. and about the grounding the spark plug inside the coil. Is there any easy way to do this? Thanks a lot guys. And i just tried the thing that duffman1278 did with grounding the thin red/black wire and it still diddnt work.

11-22-2007, 06:41 PM	#6
moses Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Jacksonville, ar Age: 34 Posts: 555 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: moses Feedback Score: 2 reviews	which line goes to the fuel pressure regulator. the reason i ask is because i have an after market intake manifold (greddy knockoff) and the lines are in different spots.

11-22-2007, 06:44 PM	#7
LimitedEdition BANNED Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: MD Age: 35 Posts: 353 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	back of what? the engine? FPR is in the back. looking at the intake manifold, which line is hooked to the left hardline and which is hook to the right hardline? iirc the feedlline (one with fuel filter on it) should be the right hardline and the return on left. DONT QUOTE ME.

11-22-2007, 07:00 PM	#8
moses Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Jacksonville, ar Age: 34 Posts: 555 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: moses Feedback Score: 2 reviews	The hard lines are taken out. on the front side fuel rail you can see the fpr and that one is hooked up to the fuel filter. and the retern line is hooked up to the one on back of fuel line.

11-22-2007, 07:15 PM	#10
moses Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Jacksonville, ar Age: 34 Posts: 555 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: moses Feedback Score: 2 reviews	how are you suppose to ground the spark plug when it is in the coil pack? wouldnt the spark plug just fall out? what is the easiest way to do it?

11-22-2007, 08:05 PM	#11
duffman1278 Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Covina Age: 33 Posts: 2,844 Trader Rating: (8) Rides Gallery: duffman1278 Feedback Score: 8 reviews	No no, you put the spark plug in the coil pack, so take it out of the block and than shove it in the coil, move the coil over and have the threads of the spark plug touch the metal from the block or the letters on the valve cover, after that, have someone crank the engine, you should be able to see spark, it'll be really obvious, you can't miss the light. just DON'T touch the spark plug as its being cranked, and remove the fuel pump fuse so it wont start up. I suggest grabbing the coilpack from the top, so you don't hurt yourself

11-22-2007, 08:24 PM	#12
moses Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Jacksonville, ar Age: 34 Posts: 555 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: moses Feedback Score: 2 reviews	About the fuel lines in this pic he has the fuel pump hooked in the back and the other fuel line going to the front of the engine. Do you know if that is right? I got mine going the other way. How bad is it if it is hooked up backwards?

11-22-2007, 08:26 PM	#13
moses Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Jacksonville, ar Age: 34 Posts: 555 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: moses Feedback Score: 2 reviews	im new at this and i dont know how to put pics up. this is the website http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/228716. it is in the middle of the page. there talkin about something totally different but it has a pic of his fuel lines.

11-22-2007, 08:43 PM	#14
g6civcx Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 5,764 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Look at the pix. The supply line goes from the filter into the fuel raile like you see there. The fuel pressure regulator is the cylindrical looking thing on the fuel rail towards the front of the car. The return line goes from the FPR to the return line on the chassis. If you mix up these 2 lines it will not run. http://www.srswap.com/faq/index.asp Scroll down to Fuel System for more info.

11-22-2007, 10:10 PM	#15
moses Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Jacksonville, ar Age: 34 Posts: 555 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: moses Feedback Score: 2 reviews	ok i just switched the fuel lines and still nothing, but i still cant smell fuel on the spark plugs. Also i tested to see if the spark plugs were sparking and nothing. so now i have no clue what to do. i need to find out how to check the ignitor. any ideas

11-22-2007, 10:30 PM	#16
g6civcx Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 5,764 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Is the engine cranking?

11-22-2007, 10:36 PM	#17
moses Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Jacksonville, ar Age: 34 Posts: 555 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: moses Feedback Score: 2 reviews	yes its cranking, but it only turned over once for a sec

11-23-2007, 12:27 AM	#18
moses Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Jacksonville, ar Age: 34 Posts: 555 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: moses Feedback Score: 2 reviews	now i dont know if this is good news or not but i just checked all the spark plugs for spark and it turns out #3 had spark. i dont know what this means or if i can rule out anything? does anyone have any ideas? and i still cant smell any fuel on the spark plugs

11-23-2007, 12:41 AM	#19
Ca_laurier Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: calgary/canada Age: 35 Posts: 421 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	aww i am in the same boat as you dude. i gave up and am just sending it to the local shop soon to get it fixed

11-23-2007, 12:43 AM	#20
moses Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Jacksonville, ar Age: 34 Posts: 555 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: moses Feedback Score: 2 reviews	im in arkansas so im on my own. can you let me know what they find out?

11-23-2007, 10:52 AM	#23
moses Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Jacksonville, ar Age: 34 Posts: 555 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: moses Feedback Score: 2 reviews	ok so i think i miss lead you guys. it is cranking. what i meant was it is not firing up. but did what unicoladron said to do about moving the coilpacks around and i got spark also in #1, but not in #2 and #4. it was a weak spark but my battery is dying after all these tries. im going to go get it charged but what does that mean now?

11-23-2007, 12:38 PM	#24
moses Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Jacksonville, ar Age: 34 Posts: 555 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: moses Feedback Score: 2 reviews	can someone tell me how to post pics off my computer. and also where is the best place for the battery ground to hook up at?

11-23-2007, 02:12 PM	#25
moses Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Jacksonville, ar Age: 34 Posts: 555 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: moses Feedback Score: 2 reviews	c mon guys i need some help. does any one know if all the black wires by the battery need to be grounded. i diddnt because none of the websites said to. And when i turn my key to the on position my ecu doesnt flash when i turn that little screw. what does all this mean? please help!!!

11-23-2007, 04:57 PM	#29
moses Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Jacksonville, ar Age: 34 Posts: 555 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: moses Feedback Score: 2 reviews	ok i was chraging one battery and i used the other almost dead one to check where i was getting power to in my ecu and guess what i found out. i was looking the E5 pinout and for some reason the wire colors werent matching up and there were some missing where it wasnt suppose to. so i go looking around online to see if anyone eles had a ecu pinout that would work with my harness. And come to kind out that my harness matches up with a J4/J5 ECU which is a 97-98 S13 blacktop. i diddnt know they made s13s in 97-98. so do you think that i should get a different ecu or harness? Is there any was to see what year engine i have by looking at it? hopefully the company that sold me it will just give me the right ecu. This sucks. thanks for everyones help. it will be a while before i get the ecu in and hopefully it starts right up but if not, ill be back here.