Do I have a red or black top? Need o2 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

1320VR4 · 08-09-2014, 11:44 AM

When I bought my SR it was sold to me as a Red Top. The valve cover was painted blue so who would really know. The head has the cooling fins cast on it and it's using the fat o2 sensor. I bought a skinny o2 since I was under the assumption that I had a red top.

The plugs on both the skinny and fat o2s look identical so either will plug in. I can assume that my car may NOT be running the correct o2 sensor since research tells me they're different in operation and my current o2 readings are inconsistent. Sometimes I drive at 10:1 afrs all the time, no matter speed or throttle.

Besides the o2 is there a concrete way to decipher if I have a black or red top so I can buy the correct sensor?

Matt

kota2240 · 08-09-2014, 01:00 PM

62/63 ECU use skinny O2=redtop
E5/E6 uses Fat O2=blacktop (I believe all these have cooling type fins on the front of the motor right below the valve cover)
J4 = blacktop (lastest year S13 Sr20det)

you should run the correct O2 with the ECU you have

people run mismatched setups with no problems.

Dboyizmlg · 08-09-2014, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kota2240

62/63 ECU use skinny O2=redtop
E5/E6 uses Fat O2=blacktop (I believe all these have cooling type fins on the front of the motor right below the valve cover)
J4 = blacktop (lastest year S13 Sr20det)

you should run the correct O2 with the ECU you have

people run mismatched setups with no problems.

+1 ^

I agree here

1320VR4 · 08-09-2014, 01:35 PM

I have a 62 ecu. So that means my car is using the wrong 02. So I need a fat to skinny adapter. Where may I find one?

Dboyizmlg · 08-09-2014, 01:48 PM

Frsport.com might have some.
Look in website, or give them a call would be better because the search on the website sucks.

Both O2 sensor should work though...

cotbu · 08-09-2014, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Sometimes I drive at 10:1 afrs all the time, no matter speed or throttle.

If this is true and not an exaggeration, you have other issues and that problem is not the 02 sensor. Even though it's the wrong one.

Kingtal0n · 08-09-2014, 08:05 PM

You have a #62 ecu. GREAT.

You CAN USE the fat type O2 sensor. In fact I recommend it.

Simply buy (or use an existing) fat O2 sensor and wire the signal wire directly to the ECU. Leave the other wires alone (do not attempt to wire the +12 or Ground wires to anything).

You only need that 1 single wire (signal wire) to go from the O2 sensor to the ECU for it to work.

1320VR4 · 08-09-2014, 10:47 PM

Why would you recommend the fat over the skinny?

Why are there three wires if only one is necessary? Is it heated?

Is having a62 ecu actually great or is that comment a ruse?

1320VR4 · 08-09-2014, 10:47 PM

And yeah sometimes it's 10:1. Usually it's not that bad lol

Dboyizmlg · 08-10-2014, 12:25 AM

You should listen to Kingtalon's advice.

Yes, fat type is heated.

cotbu · 08-10-2014, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320VR4

And yeah sometimes it's 10:1. Usually it's not that bad lol

You should be able to disconnect your 02 sensor and still not be 10.1. Anyway,...This is just a misdiagnosis. Pull codes, do a boost leak test, verify base timing. The 02 is heated and if it was just the 02 it would only take longer to read 10.1afr without the heater connected, doubt it because that's a lot of ground to cover for a zirconia or titania sensor.

The voltage scale and the way they read 02 content is different. That's why you need the correct 02 sensor, but I never seen it make anyone 10.1 AFR, some wide bands only read as rich as 10.1

Sent from my Highly Tuned Galaxy S3.4!!!

Kingtal0n · 08-10-2014, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cotbu

You should be able to disconnect your 02 sensor and still not be 10.1. Anyway,...This is just a misdiagnosis. Pull codes, do a boost leak test, verify base timing. The 02 is heated and if it was just the 02 it would only take longer to read 10.1afr without the heater connected, doubt it because that's a lot of ground to cover for a zirconia or titania sensor.

The voltage scale and the way they read 02 content is different. That's why you need the correct 02 sensor, but I never seen it make anyone 10.1 AFR, some wide bands only read as rich as 10.1

The narrowbands all work the same, fat, skinny. the ecu always works the same, #62, J4, E5, NA, NQ, WC, ALL Sr20det ECU read signal the same way. It reads the signal wire for 0-1 volt. The heater just speeds things up, but even with the heater the ecu defaults to a slight rich condition at idle.

Thats why I suggest using only the signal wire. avoid the skinny sensors "resistor mess" that nobody can seem to figure out and just wire the 1 single wire from ANY oxygen sensor to the ecu and be done with it.

Furthermore, you dont need the o2 connected to have a good running sr20det if your maf is clean and your plumbing is leak-free. Its just an extra added benefit.

if you are seeing 10:1 or 11:1 you have a boost leak 98% of the time.

I used a fat-type SINGLE WIRE oxygen sensor from a chevy for 3 years on my #62 ecu with a wideband to verify it was working. And there is a video of it floating around if you check my recent posts < 2 months.

bmxer882x · 08-10-2014, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kota2240

62/63 ECU use skinny O2=redtop
E5/E6 uses Fat O2=blacktop (I believe all these have cooling type fins on the front of the motor right below the valve cover)
J4 = blacktop (lastest year S13 Sr20det)

you should run the correct O2 with the ECU you have

people run mismatched setups with no problems.

J4 is supposed to run with a skinny. Mine didnt like a fatty.

cotbu · 08-10-2014, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

The narrowbands all work the same, fat, skinny. the ecu always works the same, #62, J4, E5, NA, NQ, WC, ALL Sr20det ECU read signal the same way. It reads the signal wire for 0-1 volt. The heater just speeds things up, but even with the heater the ecu defaults to a slight rich condition at idle.

Thats why I suggest using only the signal wire. avoid the skinny sensors "resistor mess" that nobody can seem to figure out and just wire the 1 single wire from ANY oxygen sensor to the ecu and be done with it.

Furthermore, you dont need the o2 connected to have a good running sr20det if your maf is clean and your plumbing is leak-free. Its just an extra added benefit.

if you are seeing 10:1 or 11:1 you have a boost leak 98% of the time.

I used a fat-type SINGLE WIRE oxygen sensor from a chevy for 3 years on my #62 ecu with a wideband to verify it was working. And there is a video of it floating around if you check my recent posts < 2 months.

So what your really saying is, we only disagree about how the 02 sensor reads, and his problem isn't the oxygen sensor!
I understand what your are saying, about the signal wire and getting it to the ecu, but it wouldn't cause his issue or fix his problems, that's where I was at. Now I'll try to prove my point, about the correct 02 sensor. Of course, there is already someone whom agrees with you. So here goes, early in the sr20 swapping business, tuners offered an 02 program to use usdm sensor aka fat or the JDM type skinny, because the sensors read different titania vs zirconia. Even the output from wide bands didn't read correctly for redtop ECU's the end!

Quote:

To be sure of fitting the correct replacement oxygen sensor it is good to have an understanding of the different types. The most common is the zirconia dioxide (Zirconia) sensor, which comes in heated and unheated form. There are two different types of zirconia sensor and some manufacturers use titanium dioxide (titania) oxygen sensors. Below is a general overview of each type of oxygen sensor:

Zirconia 'thimble' type
Element type - zirconium dioxide, thimble
Types available - one, two, three and four wire, 18mm thread
Heater resistance - (3 and 4 wire sensors only) 2 to 6.5 ohms
Output signal - oscillating 0.1 and 0.9 volts

Zirconia thick film type
Element type - zirconium dioxide, planar
Types available four wire, 18mm thread
Heater resistance - 12 to 15 ohms
Output signal - oscillating between 0.1 and 0.9 volts

Titania
Element type - titanium dioxide, planar
Types available - three and four wire 12mm and 18mm thread
Heater resistance - 4 to 7 ohms.
Output signal - oscillating between 0 and 1 volt or between 0 and 5 volts
(depending on make and number of wires)

Not the full list, but you should get the gist!

Sent from my Highly Tuned Galaxy S3.4!!!

08-09-2014, 11:44 AM	#1
1320VR4 Zilvia Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Vernon, NJ Age: 31 Posts: 269 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Do I have a red or black top? Need o2 When I bought my SR it was sold to me as a Red Top. The valve cover was painted blue so who would really know. The head has the cooling fins cast on it and it's using the fat o2 sensor. I bought a skinny o2 since I was under the assumption that I had a red top. The plugs on both the skinny and fat o2s look identical so either will plug in. I can assume that my car may NOT be running the correct o2 sensor since research tells me they're different in operation and my current o2 readings are inconsistent. Sometimes I drive at 10:1 afrs all the time, no matter speed or throttle. Besides the o2 is there a concrete way to decipher if I have a black or red top so I can buy the correct sensor? Matt __________________ 94 240SX, 93 Stealth, 92 VR4, 93 RX7 , 88 Yota

08-09-2014, 01:35 PM	#4
1320VR4 Zilvia Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Vernon, NJ Age: 31 Posts: 269 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	I have a 62 ecu. So that means my car is using the wrong 02. So I need a fat to skinny adapter. Where may I find one? __________________ 94 240SX, 93 Stealth, 92 VR4, 93 RX7 , 88 Yota

08-09-2014, 08:05 PM	#7
Kingtal0n Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Florida Age: 38 Posts: 4,649 Trader Rating: (17) Feedback Score: 17 reviews	You have a #62 ecu. GREAT. You CAN USE the fat type O2 sensor. In fact I recommend it. Simply buy (or use an existing) fat O2 sensor and wire the signal wire directly to the ECU. Leave the other wires alone (do not attempt to wire the +12 or Ground wires to anything). You only need that 1 single wire (signal wire) to go from the O2 sensor to the ECU for it to work. __________________ 5.3/4l80e/turbo 240sx playthrough: https://tinyurl.com/turbo240

08-09-2014, 10:47 PM	#8
1320VR4 Zilvia Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Vernon, NJ Age: 31 Posts: 269 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Why would you recommend the fat over the skinny? Why are there three wires if only one is necessary? Is it heated? Is having a62 ecu actually great or is that comment a ruse? __________________ 94 240SX, 93 Stealth, 92 VR4, 93 RX7 , 88 Yota

08-09-2014, 10:47 PM	#9
1320VR4 Zilvia Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Vernon, NJ Age: 31 Posts: 269 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	And yeah sometimes it's 10:1. Usually it's not that bad lol __________________ 94 240SX, 93 Stealth, 92 VR4, 93 RX7 , 88 Yota

08-09-2014, 01:00 PM	#2
kota2240 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: May 2004 Location: East Coast Posts: 427 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	62/63 ECU use skinny O2=redtop E5/E6 uses Fat O2=blacktop (I believe all these have cooling type fins on the front of the motor right below the valve cover) J4 = blacktop (lastest year S13 Sr20det) you should run the correct O2 with the ECU you have people run mismatched setups with no problems.

08-09-2014, 01:48 PM	#5
Dboyizmlg Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: SoCal (I.E.), San Berdino, Colton, Redlands Posts: 1,666 Trader Rating: (17) Feedback Score: 17 reviews	Frsport.com might have some. Look in website, or give them a call would be better because the search on the website sucks. Both O2 sensor should work though...

08-10-2014, 12:25 AM	#10
Dboyizmlg Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: SoCal (I.E.), San Berdino, Colton, Redlands Posts: 1,666 Trader Rating: (17) Feedback Score: 17 reviews	You should listen to Kingtalon's advice. Yes, fat type is heated.

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