This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread. - Page 103 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

*!Zar!* · 08-24-2011, 10:27 PM

Matej: Here you go. POWER MOVE!: Proud to announce

DC Dan MAX USA · 08-24-2011, 10:28 PM

Don't know for sure right now on final price but so far it's looking like 25% less than the others.

PoorMans180SX · 08-25-2011, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC Dan MAX USA

Parts Shop MAX PRO steering knuckle modification:

$400 plus return shipping
Availability - NOW

This is the most aggressive knuckle available today with up to 62 degrees of angle, 45mm roll center correction and the lowest possible ackerman.

caution! - this is only for real men who relentlessly pursue the art of throwing cars at 90+ degrees of drift angle
wussies need not apply.

Gosh dang it Dan, just when I'm all set to make my own set of knuckles, you come out with the next step up.

Parts look awesome as usual.

SicBastard · 08-25-2011, 07:05 AM

Some of those backwards entries are insane!!! And 45mm of correction... Nice work as usual MAX.

DC Dan MAX USA · 08-25-2011, 08:58 AM

Thanks guys! My car was already dialed in with the old setup but it would almost drift itself which was still fun but the predictability made me look for more...power, or so I thought. Now with the new quicker, lower ackerman knuckles and the reduction of caster with the new LCA / pro coil over top plate, the car wants to accept my input more instead of having it's own happy trajectory. Being able to throw it so much harder and sustain the drift down the straights longer means that I am using wide open throttle so much longer than ever before, so I am drifting with more speed, angle and smoke. Bottom line is the car is more exciting to drive.

In the video I am just getting to know it again but Kado gave me backwards entry training, and it's way out of my comfort zone. I can throw 90 degree entry intuitively but to do what kado does, it's counter intuitive. It feels like your falling off a cliff to me right now so with the new setup I have a lot of work to do to bring my driving level up to the cars capability. Initially it felt very different, but it is growing on me quickly and I can tell there is way more room to push the limits of my car and it's little stock turbo.

swiftmini · 08-25-2011, 09:04 AM

Parts shop max is so gangsta its unreal

ka-titties · 08-25-2011, 09:06 AM

$150 for a skid plate? come on. i'm not fucking retarded.

anyway, that rack spacer looks really nice. and those entries were sick.

Matej · 08-25-2011, 05:21 PM

MAX gentlemen, it would be totally radical if you made some cool super-elastic dust boots to match with all your other neat steering items. Possibly to also accommodate the offset spacers or spaced out tie rods better than the hard OEM boots.

I was considering purchasing these Megan silicone ones, but blue does not really go with my colour scheme.

*!Zar!* · 08-25-2011, 05:55 PM

Just buy the megan ones and paint them with latex/rubber paint.

s14unimog · 08-26-2011, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC Dan MAX USA

Ryans car is truely amazing, did you all see this???

I see a lot of front tire dragging, huge loss of momentum and unintended line changes.

Motary · 08-27-2011, 02:31 PM

I have a question about this:

What if I change the angle of the steering arm pickup point to match that of the lower control arm balljoint one?

PoorMans180SX · 08-28-2011, 01:04 PM

Then your tie rod ends won't thread into your tie rods. The end won't have enough articulation angle to handle that kind of shank angle.

jumpman2334 · 08-28-2011, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matej

I was considering purchasing these Megan silicone ones, but blue does not really go with my colour scheme.

are you really serious right now?

PoorMans180SX · 08-28-2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jumpman2334

are you really serious right now?

Yes, he is. Now if you don't have something constructive to add, go away.

Motary · 08-28-2011, 04:16 PM

Okay, that figures, so the only way to use these long shanks is to move the toe arm pickup point to keep factory ackermann angle right

PoorMans180SX · 08-28-2011, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motary

Okay, that figures, so the only way to use these long shanks is to move the toe arm pickup point to keep factory ackermann angle right

Yes it is. Might as well shorten the steering arm while you're at it, quicker steering is nice.

Z33dori · 08-28-2011, 09:09 PM

so with the increased steering speed with knuckles, does this allow you to maintain faster steering return w/o running 9 degrees of caster?

Matej · 08-29-2011, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jumpman2334

are you really serious right now?

Yes and no and yes.

Can anyone confirm that S14/R33/R33/Y33/Z32 FLCA are the same length?
I have been researching if there was a longer interchangeable OEM arm made.

It seems there was not.

PoorMans180SX · 08-29-2011, 05:50 AM

S14 and R33 arms are the same length. I don't know about Y33 or Z32.

Maxima arm doesn't have the right hole pattern for bolting up the tension rods.

If you want a longer LCA, I would say you should just cut and extend some stock ones. It's like $80 shipped from rockauto.com for a new pair, and having someone cut and extend them is like...$50 or something. I plan on doing this myself soon. I'll get some pictures up soon.

Matej · 08-29-2011, 06:33 PM

Tell me how silly this is, but what if instead of extending the FLCA for more camber, one would just drill out new holes in the front subframe to move them out more? It seems there is enough room on both S13 and S14 front subframes for it. This would also allow for the FLCA to be mounted higher.

Sorry for using your picture, 95KA-Turbo.

Of course, new holes would need to be drilled in the arm for the tension rod and swaybar to line up.
Would this be dumb and unsafe?

***S14DB*** · 08-29-2011, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matej

Tell me how silly this is, but what if instead of extending the FLCA for more camber, one would just drill out new holes in the front subframe to move them out more? It seems there is enough room on both S13 and S14 front subframes for it. This would also allow for the FLCA to be mounted higher.

Of course, new holes would need to be drilled in the arm for the tension rod and swaybar to line up.
Would this be dumb and unsafe?

It's what Silkroad used to do. Just higher up though. I don't think they moved it out.

95KA-Turbo · 08-29-2011, 07:23 PM

The only real issue you have with moving the LCA inner mount up is getting your tie rods parallel so you don't have bump steer. I believe the tension rod has just as much room it can move up as the LCA inner pickup can, so that's just as simple of a fix.

Have you considered taking your coilover perches to a machine shop and having them drill another top hole in them like 10-15mm further in? You'd loose inner clearance between the coilover and wheel but you'd gain a lot of camber and not mess up your other suspension stuff - not to mention adding a spacer would probably be in order for the added camber.

SicBastard · 08-29-2011, 07:53 PM

You also add quite a bit of anit-dive, unless you raise the tension rod the same amount.

PoorMans180SX · 08-29-2011, 08:26 PM

Extending the LCA is by far the best option. It gives you more tension rod and sway bar clearance and doesn't mess with your steering axis, bumpsteer, or anti-dive.

95KA-Turbo · 08-29-2011, 08:38 PM

Doesn't it also push the whole wheel further out?

So by lengthening the LCA you get a wider track width and more negative camber - where as a new top hole for the coilover perch gives you less wheel inner clearance and....? I would assume it effects the kingpin angle negatively if you do it excessively.

PoorMans180SX · 08-29-2011, 08:44 PM

Yes, wider track and more camber. The camber can be taken out with a top mount, which also corrects steering axis, and bam, no negative effects.

Re-drilling the lower mount changes your steering axis, alters how much tire contact you have at lock, and doesn't help your sway bar or tension rod clearance.

Patrick Bowering · 08-29-2011, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95KA-Turbo

Have you considered taking your coilover perches to a machine shop and having them drill another top hole in them like 10-15mm further in? You'd loose inner clearance between the coilover and wheel but you'd gain a lot of camber and not mess up your other suspension stuff - not to mention adding a spacer would probably be in order for the added camber.

This messes with scrub radius and steering axis inclination really badly doesnt it? The Ultimate Handling Guide Part 8: Understanding Your Caster, King Pin Inclination and Scrub this goes over king pin inclination and scrub radius. Or am i just being crazy.

*!Zar!* · 08-30-2011, 09:47 AM

If you all are increasing front track, what are you doing to increase the rear track?

Why do you want/need more camber?

codyace · 08-30-2011, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !Zar!

If you all are increasing front track, what are you doing to increase the rear track?

Why do you want/need more camber?

Mo Camba' = Mo Betta'

I'm only able to get 2.75 on my current setup with the T3 upper plates and Richard's housings for the 8611's, as the spherical housing hits the strut tower) I'd love to get 3/3.25 with slicks, and was considering slotting the upper hole in the coilover...but now I may extend the lower control arm after the next track day to get some more cambe -- dumbass me never even considered that.

Csomme · 08-30-2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !Zar!

If you all are increasing front track, what are you doing to increase the rear track?

Why do you want/need more camber?

Running more camber up front will increase your leading wheel contact patch at full lock. Paired with the right caster, this is pretty awesome.

A lot of guys don't run much camber to have TONS of camber out of the leading wheel at full lock, this is beneficial to a certain extent, because it will "lift" up that corner of the car, putting more weight on the opposite end, resulting in more rear bite.

08-24-2011, 10:27 PM	#3061
!Zar! Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North Korea Posts: 14,576 Trader Rating: (27) Feedback Score: 27 reviews	Matej: Here you go. POWER MOVE!: Proud to announce __________________

08-24-2011, 10:28 PM	#3062
DC Dan MAX USA Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,478 Trader Rating: (79) Feedback Score: 79 reviews	Don't know for sure right now on final price but so far it's looking like 25% less than the others. __________________ How To order: You can order directly from our zilvia advertiser threads. When you add to cart, you get an instant shipping estimate, & the cart will remember all of your items as you move between forum threads and our website www.poweredbymax.net until you remove them or check out. I can also calculate estimates manually for you but the cart's estimates are way faster and more accurate. Order Inquiry: IM me your real name and paypal address. Thanks for your business!

08-25-2011, 07:05 AM	#3064
SicBastard Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 803 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Some of those backwards entries are insane!!! And 45mm of correction... Nice work as usual MAX. __________________ BURN OUT IN YOUR FACE! 1998 S14 LS7/T56 swap in progress, build thread: http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/147301...d-gto-pan.html

08-25-2011, 08:58 AM	#3065
DC Dan MAX USA Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,478 Trader Rating: (79) Feedback Score: 79 reviews	Thanks guys! My car was already dialed in with the old setup but it would almost drift itself which was still fun but the predictability made me look for more...power, or so I thought. Now with the new quicker, lower ackerman knuckles and the reduction of caster with the new LCA / pro coil over top plate, the car wants to accept my input more instead of having it's own happy trajectory. Being able to throw it so much harder and sustain the drift down the straights longer means that I am using wide open throttle so much longer than ever before, so I am drifting with more speed, angle and smoke. Bottom line is the car is more exciting to drive. In the video I am just getting to know it again but Kado gave me backwards entry training, and it's way out of my comfort zone. I can throw 90 degree entry intuitively but to do what kado does, it's counter intuitive. It feels like your falling off a cliff to me right now so with the new setup I have a lot of work to do to bring my driving level up to the cars capability. Initially it felt very different, but it is growing on me quickly and I can tell there is way more room to push the limits of my car and it's little stock turbo. __________________ How To order: You can order directly from our zilvia advertiser threads. When you add to cart, you get an instant shipping estimate, & the cart will remember all of your items as you move between forum threads and our website www.poweredbymax.net until you remove them or check out. I can also calculate estimates manually for you but the cart's estimates are way faster and more accurate. Order Inquiry: IM me your real name and paypal address. Thanks for your business!

08-25-2011, 09:04 AM	#3066
swiftmini Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: uk Age: 38 Posts: 227 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Parts shop max is so gangsta its unreal __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

08-25-2011, 09:06 AM	#3067
ka-titties Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Near that guy you know Posts: 1,561 Trader Rating: (11) Feedback Score: 11 reviews	$150 for a skid plate? come on. i'm not fucking retarded. anyway, that rack spacer looks really nice. and those entries were sick.

08-25-2011, 05:21 PM	#3068
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	MAX gentlemen, it would be totally radical if you made some cool super-elastic dust boots to match with all your other neat steering items. Possibly to also accommodate the offset spacers or spaced out tie rods better than the hard OEM boots. I was considering purchasing these Megan silicone ones, but blue does not really go with my colour scheme.

08-25-2011, 05:55 PM	#3069
!Zar! Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North Korea Posts: 14,576 Trader Rating: (27) Feedback Score: 27 reviews	Just buy the megan ones and paint them with latex/rubber paint. __________________

08-27-2011, 02:31 PM	#3071
Motary Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Estonia Age: 32 Posts: 450 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	I have a question about this: What if I change the angle of the steering arm pickup point to match that of the lower control arm balljoint one?

08-28-2011, 01:04 PM	#3072
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 33 Posts: 5,430 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	Then your tie rod ends won't thread into your tie rods. The end won't have enough articulation angle to handle that kind of shank angle. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

08-28-2011, 04:16 PM	#3075
Motary Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Estonia Age: 32 Posts: 450 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Okay, that figures, so the only way to use these long shanks is to move the toe arm pickup point to keep factory ackermann angle right

08-28-2011, 09:09 PM	#3077
Z33dori Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Riverview, FL Age: 32 Posts: 5,557 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	so with the increased steering speed with knuckles, does this allow you to maintain faster steering return w/o running 9 degrees of caster? __________________

08-29-2011, 05:50 AM	#3079
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 33 Posts: 5,430 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	S14 and R33 arms are the same length. I don't know about Y33 or Z32. Maxima arm doesn't have the right hole pattern for bolting up the tension rods. If you want a longer LCA, I would say you should just cut and extend some stock ones. It's like $80 shipped from rockauto.com for a new pair, and having someone cut and extend them is like...$50 or something. I plan on doing this myself soon. I'll get some pictures up soon. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

08-29-2011, 06:33 PM	#3080
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	Tell me how silly this is, but what if instead of extending the FLCA for more camber, one would just drill out new holes in the front subframe to move them out more? It seems there is enough room on both S13 and S14 front subframes for it. This would also allow for the FLCA to be mounted higher. Sorry for using your picture, 95KA-Turbo. Of course, new holes would need to be drilled in the arm for the tension rod and swaybar to line up. Would this be dumb and unsafe?

08-29-2011, 07:23 PM	#3082
95KA-Turbo Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: LA Age: 36 Posts: 3,402 Trader Rating: (19) Feedback Score: 19 reviews	The only real issue you have with moving the LCA inner mount up is getting your tie rods parallel so you don't have bump steer. I believe the tension rod has just as much room it can move up as the LCA inner pickup can, so that's just as simple of a fix. Have you considered taking your coilover perches to a machine shop and having them drill another top hole in them like 10-15mm further in? You'd loose inner clearance between the coilover and wheel but you'd gain a lot of camber and not mess up your other suspension stuff - not to mention adding a spacer would probably be in order for the added camber. __________________ Instagram - SJKnoop

08-29-2011, 07:53 PM	#3083
SicBastard Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 803 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	You also add quite a bit of anit-dive, unless you raise the tension rod the same amount. __________________ BURN OUT IN YOUR FACE! 1998 S14 LS7/T56 swap in progress, build thread: http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/147301...d-gto-pan.html

08-29-2011, 08:26 PM	#3084
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 33 Posts: 5,430 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	Extending the LCA is by far the best option. It gives you more tension rod and sway bar clearance and doesn't mess with your steering axis, bumpsteer, or anti-dive. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

08-29-2011, 08:38 PM	#3085
95KA-Turbo Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: LA Age: 36 Posts: 3,402 Trader Rating: (19) Feedback Score: 19 reviews	Doesn't it also push the whole wheel further out? So by lengthening the LCA you get a wider track width and more negative camber - where as a new top hole for the coilover perch gives you less wheel inner clearance and....? I would assume it effects the kingpin angle negatively if you do it excessively. __________________ Instagram - SJKnoop

08-29-2011, 08:44 PM	#3086
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 33 Posts: 5,430 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	Yes, wider track and more camber. The camber can be taken out with a top mount, which also corrects steering axis, and bam, no negative effects. Re-drilling the lower mount changes your steering axis, alters how much tire contact you have at lock, and doesn't help your sway bar or tension rod clearance. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

08-30-2011, 09:47 AM	#3088
!Zar! Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North Korea Posts: 14,576 Trader Rating: (27) Feedback Score: 27 reviews	If you all are increasing front track, what are you doing to increase the rear track? Why do you want/need more camber? __________________

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