jononioo

which block is better... i was talking to a guy that works at horsepowerfreaks.com and he told me that the s13 motors are stronger (better pistons and rods) than the s14 motors under boost. He also said that the s14 motors have a tendancy to blow at any boost level... some at 8 some a 15?

From my knowledge of KA's, ive always heard that a KA was a KA... but this guy says that approx after the 94 year, Nissan ditched the stronger S13 bottom end for a "cheaper" & weaker bottom end which they put in the s14's.

Can anyone give me more insite to what this guy is saying. I plan on boosting my engine to about 8lbs but i don't have the extra ~1k to build my bottom end. Im afraid that if i boost my engine it will blow and that will suk ass b/c im on my third motor and im tired of swapping them in and out!

projectRDM

I can tell you that the sky is green. Do you believe me?

KA is a KA. There is no change in bottom end parts from what all the research has shown. Motors blow becasue they detonate, some at 8psi and some at 15psi.

It's called tuning.

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Pacman

Maybe he was talking about the compression ratio. The ratio is higher on the S14 motors, thats why the cams are different and you can get power swapping cams. If you're gonna boost, use the S13 motor since you're not gonna re-build the bottom end. That way, you get the lower compression ratio and its safer to boost.

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AceInHole

S13 engines have a smaller oil galley port from the block to the head, longer duration cams (although possibly lower lift?? I don't think anyone's bothered to check) and minor differences in the head. MCS14's lack the rearmost cam bridges (unnecessary even in S13 KA's) and have updated timing chain tensioners. There's enough small differences for me to prefer an S14 KA over an S13 KA, besides S13 KA's generally having more miles and wear on them.

Between S13 and S14 KA24DE's, the compression ratio is the same.

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ranisron

9.2 to 1?

I wonder if the same thing would apply to the Altima talking about Block rigidty (sp).

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nightwalker

the "blowing engines" part is probably attributed to the S14s running a leaner mixture. This was used to get rid of the air injection in S13s. A smog thing.

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ranisron

thought the later S13 would probably run obdII emission, though at WOT it should run extremely rich, well, at least these were applied to the later 1st gen Altimas...

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projectRDM

No, no. Idiot.

9.5:1 CR on ALL DE motors, the SOHCs ran lower compression. The cams have a different profile because the S13s used the SCVs to build lowend torque, while the S14s don't have them. Has nothing to do with CR.

S14s don't run a leaner mixture, and the AIV system on the S13 has no effect on A/Fs, it's strictly used for emissions, the ECU doesn't pull timing or increase the fuel map if it's removed.

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97DubTruck

Turns out.....

Pacman

Wow, you're cool.

From my understanding, the S13 DE motors run a 8.6:1 compression, thats why the longer duration cams were used. The S14's run a 9:1 compression ratio using the shorter duration cams. Why do you think you can get power from S13 cams in the S14 engines. Anyone else have information on this?

EDIT: Hey, bright one, check this out. Apparently I'm right. The '91 DE I lower than the '95 DE. Heres your proof:

'89 Motor:
http://www.socal240sx.org/faq/1989.html
'91 Motor:
http://www.socal240sx.org/faq/1991.html
'95 Motor:
http://www.socal240sx.org/faq/1995.html

Theres your proof. Idiot.

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mrmephistopheles

Considering OBDII wasn't mandated until 1995, your logic is in error.

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97DubTruck

He is pretty cool. You know you can't see any wires in his engine bay....

Jeff240sx

/sigh.
Advanceautoparts.com. An accurate and unbiased site.
1995 piston part #: AE Clevite Engine Parts 2242985 PISTON SET Retail Price: $61.54
1991 piston part #: AE Clevite Engine Parts 2242985 PISTON SET Retail Price: $61.54

Looks the same to me. Russ knows his shit, unlike you. So just calm down.
People have talked about the possibility of 8.6:1 cr running into the '91 during the very beginning, but I've seen no proof.
-Jeff

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projectRDM

Kid, you are so far in over your head. Reading a page created by someone else proves nothing, I could write that you're an asshat and post it up on a nicely done webpage, you saying I'd be right?

S13 DEs use the SCVs to help produce lower end torque, staying slightly closed until 4k rpm, therefore the cams have a longer duration for more power up top. The S14 motors opted not to use the SCVs, so a cam change gives the same power throughout the revband without sacrificing midrange response. S13 cams in an S14 motor make more power because they lack those SCVs.
Socal's page is incorrect, sorry. I've got a copy of an 89, 92, 96, and 98 FSM right here at my desk. 89 SOHCs ran 8.6:1, 90 models were upped to 9.0:1 (IIRC), and ALL DOHC motors, 91-98, including the 93-01 Altima, ran 9.5:1. Nissan OE part numbers on pistons are the same from 8/90 all the way until 11/00. Do yourself a favor and research thoroughly a proven resource first, then take the dick out of your ass that got jammed in there when you jumped the gun and were wrong.

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Pacman

How, we got an e-thug here people. I shouldn't have even stooped to your level and degrade myself.

Aren't the SCV's for cold start up. Thats why they're there aren't they mister know-it-all?

Unless you can scan the FSM's and show me the ratios, I'll keep saying that the S13's had the 8.5:1 and the S14 had 9:1. Until you get me that proof, I'll be an 'idiot'.

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E&ERacing

Hey Russ, I heard you sold your Zenki, and opted for the Kouki?

E

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XxJaPxOxNeEs23xX

u can dwnld the fsms for free online. its on this forum somwere. just search for it.

Id-

If a guy tells you a motor blows at a certain boost level... walk away slowly... do not spook him because he may kill you in his idiotic insanity

There isnt a preset boost level that blows a motor; bad tuning kills a motor.. wish the Silvia/240sx kids would get this through their head... i swear to god its the only group of people that actually treat this like a fruit from the tree of knowledge... :ghey:

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projectRDM

If they were for cold start up, why wouldn't S14s have them? You don't think an S14 ever has to start cold or something? No need for me to prove that you're an idiot, you're doing a fine job of it yourself. E-thugs are people who start fights just because their ego won't allow them to be proven wrong, you should look in the mirror next time before making a comment like that. Plus your misspelled words and lack of proper grammar speak volumes about your level of intelligence. Judging from your cardomain site, you're what, 17? Maybe 18? If they graduate you with a diploma, make sure to smack the person who gives it to you, you don't deserve it.

The AIV on S13s allows for some exhaust to pulse through the intake, that would effect cold startup a little. The SCVs purpose is to function just like the throttle body butterfly and slow air down going into the head, allowing for more air pressure to build. When they open, the cams take advantage of the higher flow. That's just common sense though. How would slowing up intake air create a warm up situation? If anything, you'd want the air pressure to be at a higher velocity if you're looking for heat generation.

You can keep saying whatever you want, but you're wrong and continuing to put out bad information, so the next time a thread like this comes up there'll be another argument because some new, perhaps ignorant, 240 owner hasn't researched enough and believes your comments. Those people who are intelligent enough to verify this type of information or those who are just simply knowledgeable enough to know the differences by firsthand experience don't appreciate having to continually correct mistakes that people who are too arrogant to admit they're wrong always make. It's not worth my time to go and scan FSMs, if it were then I'd have a fulltime job doing so because of hearsay from young, uneducated kids like you.

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bkfill

Uhm I think its wrong to call people names, but That website is wrong i'll finish this post in a few after i finish reading

EDIT: guess i dont have to finish every1 else proves it

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Jeff240sx

Idiot. 8.6:1 once-cam and 9.5:1 twice-cam.
-Jeff

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Phlip

That was the old car, this one has a snakes nest of shit running all through his engine bay, and (get this) AIR CONDITIONING on top of all of that...


... Russ is beginning to act his age and birth gender, we guess

And then put a Zenki fron end on it, sometimes Russ does shit that I actually LIKE, even though I will continue tohate his friggin guts

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orion::S14

Hehehehe....this is funny.

ANyway, to confuse things more:

SOHC:
Early '89.....................9.1:1
Late-'89 to 1990..........8.6:1

DOHC:
'91-98........................9.5:1

So Jeff and R240NA are both correct...

- - - - - - - - - -

BTW, I read about this thing on the "internet" yesterday called the "Tornado"...it said I could "supercharge any car!"...for only $69.95...WOW! I'm buying 2...

- Brian

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ranisron

my bad... I got confused. thanks for the correction.

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E&ERacing

AC, and wiring, thats unheard of, he swapped out the Kouki front for a Zenki? Must not have been hard to find someone to trade.

Eric

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Phlip

A/C and wiring, you're right... I had to check his temperature, but removing Kouki lights for Zenki is simple when you HAVE the Zenkis... It becomes more an understandable proposition when one understands that Russ is anal about his cas to the point of being OCD and that his are the clearest Zenki lights that I have ever humped...

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Pacman

Ok, I guess I am wrong. I would like to state my apologies to everyone since I was giving out wrong information. I shouldn't have argued back and have been childish on something that I clearly didn't know what I was talking about. I now know the difference on the compression ratios. Sorry for my ignorance (not idiot) on the subject. Thanks for clearing that up.

Oh yeah, why would Nissan put more agressive cams in the '91's and it still have the same hp and tq outputs as the '95's with a lower duration cams?

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projectRDM

91-early 93 all had the same cams, and the SCVs. Midyear 93 was the changeover to the 232/232 cams and the deletion of the SCVs, from what research has shown. As I mentioned above, the combination of the two are what make the powerband usable on the S13 motors. Deleting the SCVs and going to a milder set of cams has the same effect. Though no one has ever put a stock motor back to back and verified the exact torque curve of each, the final numbers are close enough that Nissan didn't change their specs. The use of the S13 cams is then an increase in power for S14 motors simply because they're not running the SCVs as well, otherwise there would be no difference, likewise the removal of the SCVs on an S13 motor would yield the same improvements that an S14 motor sees, though it's only a slight change in throttle response.

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Ghettokracker71

After reading the title of this thread,I was hoping for a legit, factual , and in-deph comparison of the two....not a bitch-fest