need help, S13 SR20 Redtop No spark

[doridoridori]

As the title states, I'm having a no spark issue. I'll give a rundown of what happened up until it won't start again.

Long story short my turbo went out so i replaced it with the same turbo just new. S15 T28. After installing the turbo later that night I went out to eat with friends, went downtown and late that night the car just died on me while driving like 5-10mph. Tried to start it again and it cranked but got nothing.

Towed the car home, I ended up buying 2 maf's because I had a maf go bad on me once and it just fell on it's face so I was under the assumption it was that but I was wrong. Tried 2 Z32 Mafs (im running an enthalpy tuned ecu), the first maf i put in the car started up, ran for a few mins then fell on it's face and wouldn't turn on again after.

The next day I put another maf in and it started up but died a minute or so after and would not come back on. I checked all my fuses and non of them are bad. Later that day I figured let me check for spark so i left the coil packs plugged up to their designated connectors, put a screw driver at the end of each coil pack and got no spark at all. I did have a CAS go bad once long time ago so a buddy of mine brought a good CAS off his running car by, stabbed it properly and still nothing. I can smell fuel, the fuel pump primes when i turn key to on position but nothing. I even picked up a good Ignitor from a buddy late tonight and figured well if i have no spark if it isn't the CAS it has to be the ignitor but after swapping the ignitor the car still won't turn on.

Any suggestions?? im starting to assume MAYBE ecu took a crap but i don't have wires all over the place that would cause the ecu to just short out but maybe they can just go bad anyway?

any help would be greatly appreciated I'm stumped at this point.

[anthony_240]

This is copied from a post on zilvia... get your test light out ...


In accordance to have spark, you need the following :

Constant power to the ECU (Pin # : 46, 109)
Switched Power(ignition) to the ECU (Pin # : 38, 47)
Ground to the ECU (Pin # : 13, 39, 48, 107, 108, 116)

Ok, those are the basic to make the ECU “work”.

Then when you crank to engine, the CAS send a signal to the ECU that tell him : "Hey, dude, i'm now at TDC of cyl # 1! Give some fuel and spark Mofo'!"

So to give spark, the coils need : 12V+ Power(Pin #2), Ground(Pin #1), and a switched ground(Pin #3)(this is the one that "trigger" the coils and make the spark, via the ignitor). (Pinout I gave is directly on the coils connectors)

To complicate the thing a little bit, Nissan decided to use an ignitor chip, which is basically just 4 transistors in a nice box. Each coil is connected to a pin of the Ignitor which is named A, B, C, D. Coil # 4 is Pin A and coil # 1 is Pin D, I let you figure out the 2 others (lolz). On the other side of the ignitor, there is 5 pins(1, 2, 3, 4, 5). Each one of those is connected to the ECU except for pin 3 that is connected to Ground. Pin # 1 of the ignitor is connected to pin # 1 of the ECU, Pin # 2 of the ignitor is connected to pin # 2 of the ECU, Pin # 4 of the ignitor is connected to pin # 8 of the ECU, Pin # 5 of the ignitor is connected to pin # 9 of the ECU. Like I said earlier, pin # 3 is connected to chassis ground(pin 13 of the ECU)

Sooooooo…, each time the CAS tell to ECU which cylinder is at, the ECU ground the corresponding pin (either 1, 2, 8, 9). When a pin is grounded, it trigger the transistor in the ignitor, which trigger a coil, which create a spark! Easy right!?

So, knowing those basics… let’s do some diagnostics. What could create a no spark condition on all plugs? Either : no voltage at the ECU, no voltage at the coils, no ground to the ECU, no ground to the coils, no ground to pin # 3 of the ignitor or no CAS signal going to the ECU.


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[S14rebuild]

If the ecu was dead, like not turning on, he'd have NO injector pulse..just sayn

Pin test ur coils... see if ur getn +12 and -12 to them

https://imgur.com/rNRT8mf

[S14rebuild]

https://imgur.com/rNRT8mf

[anthony_240]

If the ecu was dead, like not turning on, he'd have NO injector pulse..just sayn

Pin test ur coils... see if ur getn +12 and -12 to them

https://imgur.com/rNRT8mf



Is that all the information you got from the post I shared? It basically told him where he needed to have voltage and when.


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[S14rebuild]

Is that all the information you got from the post I shared? It basically told him where he needed to have voltage and when.


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No..i got ALL ur info.... but most of it means shit cause he has injector pulse which means his ecu is "on"... so testn its power supplies n grounds are pointless.

But its kool seems like u have it all under co trol

Oo... mr. Anthony here is gonna fix ur car. Good luck

[anthony_240]

No..i got ALL ur info.... but most of it means shit cause he has injector pulse which means his ecu is "on"... so testn its power supplies n grounds are pointless.



But its kool seems like u have it all under co trol



Oo... mr. Anthony here is gonna fix ur car. Good luck



Thats the first time I hear it’s pointless to test for power.
Why you so butt hurt tho? Bf didn’t use enough lube last night? Lol


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[S14rebuild]

Thats the first time I hear it’s pointless to test for power.
Why you so butt hurt tho? Bf didn’t use enough lube last night? Lol


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Not butt hurt at all..glad u went that path...maturity

[s13 @ fullboost]

Make sure the coil pack sub harness ground is not loose. I doubt it but its always good to check. The fact that is fires up when you change mafs is very weird. Have you tried staring it up with the maf unplugged just for shits and giggles?

[doridoridori]

Make sure the coil pack sub harness ground is not loose. I doubt it but its always good to check. The fact that is fires up when you change mafs is very weird. Have you tried staring it up with the maf unplugged just for shits and giggles?

yea very weird, i can check both of those in a few and update you guys.

[doridoridori]

Is that all the information you got from the post I shared? It basically told him where he needed to have voltage and when.


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I definitely appreciate that, I was at work all day hence the late reply. I got my hands on a test light so tomorrow morning i'll be going through all of it and following this guide. I also pulled the ecu, removed one cover at a time to inspect the board but i don't see a single burn mark and nothing looks out of place so Im assuming it's good. I'll give an update when i find something out.


p.s. - it won't let me reply to your first comment with all the info so this was my original reply.

[doridoridori]

Make sure the coil pack sub harness ground is not loose. I doubt it but its always good to check. The fact that is fires up when you change mafs is very weird. Have you tried staring it up with the maf unplugged just for shits and giggles?


yea that's very true, it's very unlikely that bolt holding the ring terminal that grounds the coilpack harness moved BUT at this point gotta check everything.

[anthony_240]

I definitely appreciate that, I was at work all day hence the late reply. I got my hands on a test light so tomorrow morning i'll be going through all of it and following this guide. I also pulled the ecu, removed one cover at a time to inspect the board but i don't see a single burn mark and nothing looks out of place so Im assuming it's good. I'll give an update when i find something out.





p.s. - it won't let me reply to your first comment with all the info so this was my original reply.



For sure man. Good luck.


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[doridoridori]

Make sure the coil pack sub harness ground is not loose. I doubt it but its always good to check. The fact that is fires up when you change mafs is very weird. Have you tried staring it up with the maf unplugged just for shits and giggles?

So I checked the sub pack harness ground and it's fine, wire isn't broken and it's on there tight. Also tried to start it with the maf unplugged did nothing. On top of that, last night i decided to un-do the electrical tape to the maf connector wires and brought it all the way back, didn't see a broken wire, nothing out of place.

[doridoridori]

For sure man. Good luck.


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now that i have a test light, i just checked for ground and power on each connector that goes each designated coil pack and i have power and ground on the pins that need ground/power. So that tells me I'm getting power where I need and ground where I need but I still find it hard to believe all the coil packs went bad at the same time. It'd be a first though.

Also when I'm checking those ecu connector pins for power, I'm assuming I disconnect the ecu but just leave key on or do I need to back probe and leave the ecu connected to the connector?

[anthony_240]

Back probe the ecu, by any chance are you getting any codes?


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[doridoridori]

Back probe the ecu, by any chance are you getting any codes?


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nope nothing

[doridoridori]

(Ok so I checked pin #46, 109, I get power to these)

Constant power to the ECU (Pin # : 46, 109)

(checked switched power to these and I get power)

Switched Power(ignition) to the ECU (Pin # : 38, 47)

(and i checked ground to ecu, I get ground to all of these as I should)

Ground to the ECU (Pin # : 13, 39, 48, 107, 108, 116)


(Last night I used the test light to check all the coils and I get power and ground to the pins that need power and ground. With the "switched" ground pin #3 that is switched based on the ignitor, correct?"
and since I used a ignitor off of a friends running car it's safe to assume that should be working as long as the ignitor is good.


I checked each pin on the ecu that goes to each pin on the ignitor connector, and it gets a ground signal from my understanding. (I checked for power and ground on each pin regardless, I only get reading when I was checking for ground as i assume that how it's supposed to work, feel free to correct me if im wrong on that)


and earlier a buddy came by with his working E5 ecu, figured why not test a good ecu just to rule out that mine isn't bad and his good ecu didn't change a thing. So based on checking all of that, fingers point to the coil packs, but any second thoughts are definitely welcome. Still stumped.
[/QUOTE]

[anthony_240]

If the connectors to the coil packs are receiving power and being grounded by the ecu when it’s supposed to fire then yes your issue is your coil packs. I hope I read your response right.

Your buddy wouldn’t mind swapping coil packs real quick would he? Haha


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[doridoridori]

If the connectors to the coil packs are receiving power and being grounded by the ecu when it’s supposed to fire then yes your issue is your coil packs. I hope I read your response right.

Your buddy wouldn’t mind swapping coil packs real quick would he? Haha


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yea seems to be the case, i just double checked all four of them and none are getting any spark. Also double checked all the pins for them by back probing the ecu connector while it's still connected and i get power. Going to see if my friend can come by and try one of his good coil packs. IF all four took a shit this will be the first time i ever saw that but everything else checks out. I checked every single pin on the ecu and everything is getting the power and ground signals they need.

[doridoridori]

If the connectors to the coil packs are receiving power and being grounded by the ecu when it’s supposed to fire then yes your issue is your coil packs. I hope I read your response right.

Your buddy wouldn’t mind swapping coil packs real quick would he? Haha


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IF it is the coil packs and i have to get new ones, any recommendations? or is oem the best route?

[s13 @ fullboost]

A lot of people use the phase 2 motoring ones. The other option is factory ones. Enjuku sells them, FRsport also sells them PN 22448-50F01.

Also you can use VQ coil packs but you will have to swap two pins iirc. There are a few write up's on this.

Good luck brother I hope you get it all worked out.

[doridoridori]

A lot of people use the phase 2 motoring ones. The other option is factory ones. Enjuku sells them, FRsport also sells them PN 22448-50F01.

Also you can use VQ coil packs but you will have to swap two pins iirc. There are a few write up's on this.

Good luck brother I hope you get it all worked out.


dope yea seems like OEM probably will be the best, well here's an update. So looks like I had a relay that went bad, after i replaced it (I believe the ECCS) relay I started to get spark at each of my coil packs but still no start.

I had used my buddys E5 ecu but I do have an enthalpy tune so maybe it should work but didn't? either way i still have a feeling it can be related to ecu given everything else seems to be working properly. I checked every single wire, took off the e tape/loom and no wires are visibly broken or seem out of place. Also IF i had a break in a wire i'd imagine that I wouldn't have power to the pins that go to the CAS, MAF, Ignitor, Coilpacks and i had good connection to all of those. Maybe it is a bad ecu, I sent my ECU to martin he's going to check it.

[s13 @ fullboost]

dope yea seems like OEM probably will be the best, well here's an update. So looks like I had a relay that went bad, after i replaced it (I believe the ECCS) relay I started to get spark at each of my coil packs but still no start.

I had used my buddys E5 ecu but I do have an enthalpy tune so maybe it should work but didn't? either way i still have a feeling it can be related to ecu given everything else seems to be working properly. I checked every single wire, took off the e tape/loom and no wires are visibly broken or seem out of place. Also IF i had a break in a wire i'd imagine that I wouldn't have power to the pins that go to the CAS, MAF, Ignitor, Coilpacks and i had good connection to all of those. Maybe it is a bad ecu, I sent my ECU to martin he's going to check it.

Keep us updated !

[doridoridori]

Keep us updated !

well here's an update. so martin just got back to me and sent a video of my ecu plugged up to another car and it works perfectly fine so I am stumped.

one thing i didn't check is to see if the injectors are spraying fuel. I did smell fuel when it was cranking but i didn't pull the injectors to confirm 100% if they're spraying, however before I installed the CAS I got from a friend, i left the connector on it and spun the gear and could hear the injectors clicking.

my fuel pump does prime when i turn the key (pump is only a few months old (walbro 255) ).


Any other suggestions aside from that?

is it possible a fuel regulator can just take a shit like that and cause me to lose all fuel pressure maybe? I'm running out of ideas.

[jedi03]

did you disconnect fuel lines when doing this? can get hooked up backwards during reinstall...

[doridoridori]

did you disconnect fuel lines when doing this? can get hooked up backwards during reinstall...

have not touched fuel lines, car has been running fine for months up until this issue.

[doridoridori]

I have another question maf related. So I have a Z32 maf, on the engine harness side there's a white/black wire, black wire and a white wire which need to go to the Z32 maf and one of the wires off of the z32 maf need to be grounded. I was looking at the pinout on the ecu and there's 2 pins for the MAF on the ecu ( I have a E5).

Pin #16 (White) - MAF Sensor Signal Input
Pin #17 (Black) - MAF Sensor Ground

I assume those two wires go from the ecu pins directly to the MAF Connector (correct me if im wrong), The third wire (black/white) where exactly does this wire go? I don't see a third pin labeled for the MAF on the ecu pinout. I'm starting to wonder if something is going on with the wires to the maf. I know when maf's are bad you can unplug them and they should run but rough. However I can't find where this black/white maf wire goes.

[S14rebuild]

Black with white is 12volt postive i beleve soo.... ive had my hooked up to 12v key on

But even that..with the maf not on the car, you should still get fuel injector pulse and spark and the car would start..sputter and dye....


Sidenot..suprised anthony..240 hasnt solved this for u already:wiggle:

[TheRealSy90]

I hope all this time you've been cranking the car to test spark that you unplugged the injectors. Otherwise you're putting a ton of fuel in the cylinders.

[doridoridori]

Black with white is 12volt postive i beleve soo.... ive had my hooked up to 12v key on

But even that..with the maf not on the car, you should still get fuel injector pulse and spark and the car would start..sputter and dye....


Sidenot..suprised anthony..240 hasnt solved this for u already:wiggle:

that is exactly what i was thinking as well, with it unplugged it should do something given fuel/spark is there. I am going to check fuel pressure or check my fuel to see if it's even good. I filled up the car the night it died but i didn't go to a cheap-o gas station so i'd imagine my fuel should be ok.

Going to pull the feed line off, put it in a bottle to see how the fuel is, maybe got some bottom of the pump fuel idk. this shit is driving me crazy lol can't even sleep thinking about it so much.

[doridoridori]

I hope all this time you've been cranking the car to test spark that you unplugged the injectors. Otherwise you're putting a ton of fuel in the cylinders.

in the begining no but i pulled the plugs to check them, they do look very rich like super rich but they've been in the car a year probably. Had some
NGK Iridium (BKR5EIX-11)

just got some new BKR8EIX (2668).


So thought of something else, with the CAS having the connector on it before installing i turned the gear and could hear the injectors clicking BUT I know it also controls the spark sequence to the coilpacks. Should i actually see spark as well just by turning the gear on the CAS?

[doridoridori]

Black with white is 12volt postive i beleve soo.... ive had my hooked up to 12v key on

But even that..with the maf not on the car, you should still get fuel injector pulse and spark and the car would start..sputter and dye....


Sidenot..suprised anthony..240 hasnt solved this for u already:wiggle:

any idea where that black/white wire leads to? based on the ecu pinout i was looking at i didn't see it go to a pin on the ecu. Not sure where it changes direction and I cant find a wiring diag. for the SR engine harness that would help,it would be nice if i can get a visual of where that wire goes without taking all the loom off.

[Kingtal0n]

while diagnosing stuff use copper ngk plugs brand new
always make sure plugs look good while you do anything
keep a second new set of copper plugs they are cheap enough
never try to use an obviously blackened plug in anything for any reason
----
when the car is done, tuned, runs perfect, finished, cruising 15:1 a/f ratio clean.

Then you switch to the iridium NGK plugs.


this applies to all engines, always put expensive plug in last, it should be the last thing you do to the engine before hitting the dyno after assembling a car.
Never diagnose with iridium or build a car with it in progress

[Kingtal0n]

If you get desperate and need to diagnose without frustration:

I would unplug the maf and injectors,

remove all coil packs and use new ngk BKR7E(S) plugs, set then against ground so you can see all of them spark.


go engine tdc #1 and remove cas.



Now you can spin the cas by hand without cranking and flooding and diagnose the problem simply.
When you spin the cas, fuel pump should trigger for 3-4 seconds. That means there is 85% chance the cas working and connected properly with ecu.
It nearly rules out the cas -> ecu connection so you can focus on coils and igniter wiring to ecu.

[S14rebuild]

Just keep it simple.


Do u have spark at the plug?
Do u have proper fuel pressure?
Do u have injector pules?
Do u have good compression?


Answer those and will go from there...

[s13 @ fullboost]

use copper ngk plugs


when the car is done, tuned, runs perfect, finished, cruising 15:1 a/f ratio clean.

Then you switch to the iridium NGK plugs.



I agree with your first statement 100% Copper is the plug of choice for the SR IMO.


Cruise AFR should be 14.7 in a perfect world but 15.1 is dam good too

I disagree with using iridium plugs on a SR however.


These are just opinions take them with a grain of salt. OP will do what he will do lol

A lot of members have posted good information in this thread.

[doridoridori]

Just keep it simple.


Do u have spark at the plug?
Do u have proper fuel pressure?
Do u have injector pules?
Do u have good compression?


Answer those and will go from there...

Yes confirmed I have spark
Just got my hands on a fuel pressure tester and pressure is around 41-42psi, it stayed there for about 10mins or so. Lets me know i have good enough pressure to start the car at least and rules out the FPR being bad.
I do have injector pulse an compression is spot on.

I have a hunch that the 2nd Cas i got from a friend might still be bad.


I had a situation when I was first getting my SR started I went through EVERYTHING it is starting to remind me of this situation. (granted the swap was years ago). I checked everything and remember people saying IF i leave the CAS connected but turn the gear by hand, if i hear the injectors clicking it's good. Back then I did just that, checked everything else and was stumped. A buddy of mine had a spare CAS said lets try it why not and car fired up.

So maybe the spin the cas gear by hand to hear injectors click isn't the best confirmation that it's working 100%. I pulled the fuel rail and had my brother crank the car and the injectors are all spraying.

[doridoridori]

I did find something i didn't catch before. So something keeps telling me to focus on the CAS, I checked the wires for power and ground the first week i started diagnosing what the issue coul have been. This time when I checked the black wire I got ground but I left the test light clamp on the positive an checked the white/black wire which should be power but it did light up when I was checking for ground. So seems like I have a broken wire somewhere in the harness. Ran out of sunlight so tomorrow I'm going to check all those wires from end to end and make sure there isn't a break somewhere. IF there is which it seems im going to pull the harness and just replace the old wires with fresh ones, definitely don't want this issue happening again at random times. Fingers crossed I hope this is the root of all the headaches

[doridoridori]

FIXED IT!

this will be the last update, so after seeing the (black/white) wire on the CAS Connector get signal when I was checking for grounds but it's a power I knew something was up. Undid the loom and found the wire gauge was open a bit but nothing too bad, I cut and soldered it anyway. Plugged it up and nothing. Went further into the harness (a little before the firewall) and found the (black/white) wire and it was touching the black (ground) wire that goes to the CAS as well. Both wires were exposed inside the old loom so I pulled cleaned them up, soldered both, heat shrinked them, taped the loom back up and it fired right up!

It was annoying as hell though, considering when i started checking for power/ground on all pins in the begining i didn't get the same readings but with the wires being broken the way they were im sure they touched at a point then seperated slightly giving that intermittent connection and inaccurate reading when diagnosing the issue.

Appreciate the help from everyone that chimed in on this!

[S14rebuild]

Glad it was solved