Bought my first 240 w/ SR20DET

[austintheginger]

I don't even know how to start this without sounding stupid. I've bought this 95 240 with a rebuilt "10k on it" SR20 with a garret g35 turbo. It's got a list of internals and important shit thats been replaced in order for it to put "a bit over 400whp" but like most 240s, it's got some issues and hopefully I can get pointed toward the right direction to fix it. I understand most of what's going on in the motor, but I like to hear from others and make sure I'm "right" in my fixings, so please bear with me, otherwise just ignore this, no need for sarcasm or dickish remarks.

The previous owner didn't have a catch-can let alone a PCV valve/system so there's currently smoke blowing out of the top of the valve cover where there is 1. An open, non threaded hole close to the firewall, and 2. A hose barb in the middle drivers side. I ordered a catch-can and was going to plug the backside and run from the barb to the can, then can to the ground as I can't find where it should plug back into the intake. However as of today, instead of a little smoke coming out, there's mass amounts. The exhaust has also started to smoke while accelerating. The idle fluctuates to the point of shutting off, and there's a nasty, NASTY backfire coming out the exhaust. My first thought is the piston rings, why else would there be that much blowby? My next thought is because it likes to sputter and occasionally lose power in general is the plugs or coil-packs needs to be replaced. Whenever I brake, or turn, it lugs the motor, not sure what that has to do with anything but it needs to be fixed. There's probably some wiring issues I'm unaware of. There's also a knocking/rattling that he said was the VVT being wired in. Nonetheless I've got to fix this, yet need to sure what to fix. As soon as I can I'll do a compression test, and if I can, a leak-down. Any other thoughts or confirmations are greatly appreciated. I can post pictures of anything and soon. Again, any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks and have a great day

[austintheginger]

List from the previous owner as to whats inside

[SSJ-S15]

That's a big ass turbo for an SR

[austintheginger]

It's currently running 18psi

[jedi03]

i agree on your original sentiments...check what plugs and compression look like...check injector function/fuel flow...timing...etc...get a baseline on where things stand...what tune does it have?

[austintheginger]

It has a "conservative" tune, doing a compression/leakdown today as well as checking the plugs and coils. Thanks for the help so far

[austintheginger]

How would I test the fuel injectors' functionality? It's got Xpurt 1000cc

[Future240]

What in the fuck would possess you to buy this car with these types of issues? When does that turbo hit full boost?


Take a video and post it up. may help people diagnose it.

[austintheginger]

Car was running fine when I got it, turbo hits around 4000

[S14kouki805]

Pics of the engine bay would help

[jedi03]

put a measuring device below injectors and run them per youtube/googles suggestion...I know you power them

[austintheginger]

Compression readings
1 (closest to front) - 120
2- Nothing
3- 130
4 (firewall) - 70

[S14kouki805]

Compression readings
1 (closest to front) - 120
2- Nothing
3- 130
4 (firewall) - 70

Not good...:picardfp:

[S14kouki805]

Was it a fellow Zilvia member?

[1on1]

^this. Seems like the engine is done and will need another rebuild. As for as a rebuild on the motor, all I see on the list is as follows:

Pistons, headgasket, and new lifters.

Compression is shit to add.

[di-devol]

what injectors, what management, fuel pump?

[Kingtal0n]

time to call mazworx and buy a built engine

then have someone reputable tune it

either that, or go back to a stock setup with a next stock engine.

[S14kouki805]

I want to know who the piece of shit that sold it to you is

[austintheginger]

I can't upload another picture to show the engine bay. Most if not all work/tuning was done by Alchemy Tuning of out Tampa/Clearwater FL. It's being run off of an AEM Standalone. The issue is I don't know exactly what's here as to specific parts since I didn't build it. But as to my current running issues, I've heard anything from blowing a hole in the piston, they're weisco if that matters, to a broken piston ring, to possibly just stuck valves, either way I've got to find out. Next step is taking the fenders and shit off so I can pull the motor out and see what's up. I'm thankful to have some great friends who are willing to assist in the disassembly. Any advice on the easiest way of removing the engine

[1on1]

upload on imgur to provide photos and I have to agreed with S14kouki805.

[rc1honda]

I can't upload another picture to show the engine bay. Most if not all work/tuning was done by Alchemy Tuning of out Tampa/Clearwater FL. It's being run off of an AEM Standalone. The issue is I don't know exactly what's here as to specific parts since I didn't build it. But as to my current running issues, I've heard anything from blowing a hole in the piston, they're weisco if that matters, to a broken piston ring, to possibly just stuck valves, either way I've got to find out. Next step is taking the fenders and shit off so I can pull the motor out and see what's up. I'm thankful to have some great friends who are willing to assist in the disassembly. Any advice on the easiest way of removing the engine


Start by leaving the fenders on.

Drain all fluids

Remove the hot pipe and cold pipe.

Remove the radiator/fan setups

Remove power steering pump/you can leave the pump in the bay just tie it off

Remove throttle cable, and all vaccum lines.

Unplug all upper harness connections/grounds. I.e knock sensor/alternator plugs and grounds. Everything has to be disconnected.

Remove fuel lines from fuel rail

Zip tie as much shit outta the way as you can

Jack car up, place on stands.

Get under car and loosen the trans mounts/have bucket ready to catch trans fluid. You also my need to unbolt the drive shaft at the diff to remove the driveshaft from the trans.

Unplug all lower harness attachments. I.e starter power wire, speed sensors etc.

Remove clutch slave cyclinder and tie it off.

Remove down pipe.

I keep the mounts on the motor personally so here where I would remove the nut underneath the motor mounts

Go in car and remove center arm rest.

Remove shifter dust boot.

Remove shifter, don't lose the spring. Some people don't remove the shifter. I find it easier for the motor to come out smoothly with it off the trans. When the motor is out stuff shop rags in the shifter hole. You don't want shit getting in there.

Take car off jack stands

Jack front of car up

Put hoist in place and attach it to appropriate hoist points

Jack motor up slowly

Adjust chain as necessary

Motor out.


It's really not all the bad. The problem may be reassembly. Good thing is after you do this you will have a much better understanding of your car.

Where things go, what bolts where, and what plugs to what.

You can show any bolt on a s13 chassis and I could tell you where it goes now.

[RalliartRsX]

I can't upload another picture to show the engine bay. Most if not all work/tuning was done by Alchemy Tuning of out Tampa/Clearwater FL. It's being run off of an AEM Standalone. The issue is I don't know exactly what's here as to specific parts since I didn't build it. But as to my current running issues, I've heard anything from blowing a hole in the piston, they're weisco if that matters, to a broken piston ring, to possibly just stuck valves, either way I've got to find out. Next step is taking the fenders and shit off so I can pull the motor out and see what's up. I'm thankful to have some great friends who are willing to assist in the disassembly. Any advice on the easiest way of removing the engine


So who sold this to you or where did you get it from??

Also, see above for engine removal

[austintheginger]

[QUOTE=RalliartRsX;6165396]So who sold this to you or where did you get it from??

Don't want to call the guy out, 99% sure he's not a Zilvia member, if anything start haggling Alchemy Tuning: he's the one who built the car, guy I bought it from just drove it and is now shocked at the fact I "blew the motor"

I took the valve cover off last night in order to look at/feel (with a gauge) the valves to see if one wasn't sealing right or getting stuck. Anything specific to look for there in order to point this out? Thanks again for all the help guys

[S14kouki805]

[QUOTE=RalliartRsX;6165396]So who sold this to you or where did you get it from??

Don't want to call the guy out, 99% sure he's not a Zilvia member, if anything start haggling Alchemy Tuning: he's the one who built the car, guy I bought it from just drove it and is now shocked at the fact I "blew the motor"

I took the valve cover off last night in order to look at/feel (with a gauge) the valves to see if one wasn't sealing right or getting stuck. Anything specific to look for there in order to point this out? Thanks again for all the help guys

Based on your original post I can almost guarantee this dude is on Zilvia and must be put on blast. He's surprised YOU blew the engine? Fuck that blast that dude man. I mean don't get me wrong you fucked up too but dude knew what he was selling you. Live and learn I suppose, hard lesson learned.

[Engmus]

Never buy a modified car without a compression test, from a compression test tool you are familiar with. Not saying this to be spiteful but in case anyone ever comes across this. If the current owner refuses, say thanks and walk away.

[RalliartRsX]

So who sold this to you or where did you get it from??

Don't want to call the guy out, 99% sure he's not a Zilvia member, if anything start haggling Alchemy Tuning: he's the one who built the car, guy I bought it from just drove it and is now shocked at the fact I "blew the motor"

I took the valve cover off last night in order to look at/feel (with a gauge) the valves to see if one wasn't sealing right or getting stuck. Anything specific to look for there in order to point this out? Thanks again for all the help guys

The seller more than likely gave you a far from the truth story as quiet frankly, a built engine does not just drop compression on multiple cylinders without
1) The owner noticing
2) Bad tune or build (if it's event built)
3) You noticing
4) With all that power and money spent and he couldn't buy a $150 catch can setup??
5) Prior owner abusing the hell out of the car
6) Fill in the blank as to whatever devious reason

Considering your lack of knowledge on this particular platform, I am fairly sure he used this as leverage and sold you a vehicle that was already "blown up".

1) Are there any dyno sheets to "prove" this little over 400WHP claim??
2) Any receipts for all the parts list??
3) Any proof of tune?? Or dyno sheet from tune??
4) Any receipts from the shop build??
5) Did you contact the shop who built/tuned it to confirm it is indeed built??

People do not put on a GT35 to drive to the grocery store, so there is a very good chance you were sold a lemon. The seller took you for a ride

In my eyes, please let this community know who sold you the vehicle and do both us and yourself a disservice.

[austintheginger]

Bought the car off Craigslist. He sent me links of photos to his "build" so I'll link them next post. His name is Robert R -guy I bought it from. He's shipping out soon (why he's selling it) but the motor ran fine until about a week after I had it. Was it something wrong he knew about? Probably but of course he'll never admit it. Could I have just fucked up a good, well built car? Yes. Gotta deal with it nonetheless. What pistons, crankshafts, valves, camshafts, etc. do you guys recommend to hold up to the turbo? If I'm tearing my shit apart, I want to bring back a monster, but something as ironic as it'll be, something I can just drive down to the store in. I'm willing to compromise power for reliability, and I know in the end that compromise is near impossible to have as to reliability. But in theory, good parts, used right, should last, right?

[austintheginger]

Link to the build
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/5gzao4l3x9o0guw/AADRd7o653ALGfeaAWUQGI1fa

[austintheginger]

My pictures since I've had the car, can upload more of anything necessary to help, just let me know
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/m2t2x20r9242bid/AAApxaBA2kNsSc_1ieRi0OlHa?dl=0

[RalliartRsX]

Thanks for that. I would recommend removing his name actually due to legal reasons.........I thought he was a forum member

Now, the issue is, you have not torn down the engine yet to full diagnose what the problem is. If there is debris in the pickup for instance due to a spun bearing or even a piece of a piston ring or piston itself, there is a good chance either the bore, the crank or both have been damaged. Not necessarily beyond repair, but add that to the tally.

If you have dropped a valve, then that could be floating around in the bore causing unforeseen damage

If he has massive blow by (still not sure why he is not running a proper catch can), then the engine could have been built "loose" the rings not seated (although rings, if not seated within the first 1000 miles, the chance of then seating themselves at 10K is zero).

Too many questions to ask. You have the engine in your possession. It's time to remove the engine, place it on a stand and begin the tear down. It's amazing the things you find once this is done.

Good luck!

[RalliartRsX]

PS there is not a shred of evidence from those pics the engine was even opened up much less built. He shows engine removal, paint, parts list (which, is that even an authentic Garrett GT35??) which includes a new clutch, but I do not see anything proving the engine is built.

No saying it isn't, but none of the pictures there prove this..........I don't see rods on the list either.

Also, FSM compression for 8.5:1 engine should be 156. Anything below 120 is worn rings or to that extent and would necessitate an engine tear down. You can get away with it at that compression as I am sure most redtops from Japan are sitting right in that 110-120 unopened.

Either way, engine tear down. Too many holes in the story.

Good luck!

[austintheginger]

What pistons, crankshafts, valves, camshafts, etc. do you guys recommend to hold up to the turbo? If I'm tearing my shit apart, I want to replace everything I can so I can have the most reliability I can. I want to keep everything as original as possible (bore/stroke) but I want to be able to put some power down. Once I'm done with the build I'll get it tuned (obviously), so what ecu's and management systems would be best. I'd like to use what I can that's here such as the intercooler, bov, wastegate, fuel injectors, etc. but I'm pretty sure all the main internals will need replacing, hopefully without cylinder/head damage already being done. Thanks again for the help guys, I really appreciate it

[RalliartRsX]

Dude, you are going to have to do your own search. Everyone is going to give you their personal preference in regards to ECU, intercooler, bov and even fuel injectors.

I can tell you the easy button solution
Wiseco/CP pistons
Manley Rods
ACL Race/King bearings and thrust washers
ARP rod bolts
Mazworx head studs
Stock main bolts (so you do not have to align home).
Stock stroke
Minor Headwork
S4 cams
Stock crank ( you may need a new/used one)
ECU flavor of choice
etc etc etc

Everything else is up to the wind. I personally like Nismotornic, but someone else will chime in and say Haltech is the best...........then someone else will say "but AEM is the shit!" It's all up to you and what your goals are..........and it since you do not even have the engine apart yet..........

Considering the compression numbers, I suspect the engine will atleast need some boring, which means 0.5mm oversized pistons at the very least.

As mentioned, too many questions you need to answer yourself.

[austintheginger]

Completely understand as to personal preference. However when you say minor Headwork, what does that entail?

[di-devol]

Completely understand as to personal preference. However when you say minor Headwork, what does that entail?

You need to take a step back and relax.Grab your self a cup of coffee and take a while to read, there is a ton of info here on the forums. ALl about what headwork to do, what parts, etc.

Yank the motor out, pop it open to see what you're working with. Verify what turbo that is, verify the injectors, ecu etc.

Maybe the engine is built like he said, and if so the parts might still be good.

Check, and let us know.

[RalliartRsX]

OP: drop the pan and check for debris or metal. Any metal small or large and the engine is coming out.

With that compression the engine is coming out. Tear down the engine and come back to us with questions.

Stop thinking internals and all this other nonsense speculation. Remove engine, tear down or tear down in car, it doesn't matter. Things are coming apart one way or the other with that compression

Good luck

[austintheginger]

HOLY SHIT GUYS... I FOUND A THREAD HERE THAT IS MY PREVIOUS OWNER TRYING TO SELL HIS (MY) CAR HERE...
http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=639544
Maybe this can help

[Kingtal0n]

I'm willing to compromise power for reliability, and I know in the end that compromise is near impossible to have as to reliability. But in theory, good parts, used right, should last, right?

Here is what I recommend for a power level of 340rwhp:
Part out the engine you currently have,
Find and Install a stock sr20det engine with good compression and clean oil,

Use:
550/740cc injectors, Z32 maf, Apexi MAF Power FC, and a Bottom mount GT2871r - 64a/r turbocharger on the OEM manifold with braided hoses for fluids.
An aluminum radiator, stock clutch fan and shroud, a name brand intercooler (HKS, Greddy, or similar) and a name brand bypass valve, recirculated as close to the turbo as possible (pics in my build thread for reference of 90% of this info).

The stock engine should show 135-150PSI Of compression, across the board, before you purchase it, demand a compression test. Make sure there is oil in the engine during the test. Look at the color of the oil, smell the oil, it should look clean and clear, and smell clean and sweet. No burning smell, no dark discoloration. make sure you look under the valve cover after the compression test.

If you follow this path you will spend less than 5k on the engine/build and have a reliable daily driver, provided the tuning is done correctly (approx 9* of timing during 15-18psi of boost on 93 octane is ideal for daily drivers, with 11.8:1 showing on the in car wideband)

Anything over 340rwhp, do not use the sr20det in my opinion. Because as you can see, it will cost 5k just for the engine, and often they only last a couple hundred miles and then you need another one. The previous owner of your engine probably blew it after a couple hundred miles, then rebuilt it and sold it quickly before it blew again. Very few people in the USA can properly build a small displacement engine like the sr20det.

It can be done though, but lets just play what if: what if you DO successfully build the sr20det, now what? Now you have a motor that demands methanol or E85, at 500+rwhp, and is not nearly as fun to drive on the street, because you have to rev the motor out higher to get to the power. You going to take the motor to a minimum of 5,000rpm everytime you leave a stoplight just to see some boost on the gauge? Not in a daily driver. And if you have to ask me "why not use a smaller turbo?" I would point out one critical oversight: you will spend just as much building an sr20det to support 400 as it costs to build one for 550. If we can get 350HP out of a stock engine ($1200 longblock) then it does not make sense to spend an additional $6000+ (the price of 5 stock longblocks, approx 250,000 miles of reliable daily driving) for a built engine that only provides an extra 50-100 horsepower. In other words, once you pass the 350hp bracket, the price of the engine multiplies by 5 times, and the chances of successfully getting a reliable engine decreases by approx the same factor of 5 or more.

[S14kouki805]

Don't fuck with Kingtalon, that's guru shit right there. Wish I would've read this before rebuilding my shit.

That is very good advice

[rawgarage]

Some damn good advice

[RalliartRsX]

Anything over 340rwhp, do not use the sr20det in my opinion. Because as you can see, it will cost 5k just for the engine, and often they only last a couple hundred miles and then you need another one. The previous owner of your engine probably blew it after a couple hundred miles, then rebuilt it and sold it quickly before it blew again. Very few people in the USA can properly build a small displacement engine like the sr20det.

It can be done though, but lets just play what if: what if you DO successfully build the sr20det, now what? Now you have a motor that demands methanol or E85, at 500+rwhp, and is not nearly as fun to drive on the street, because you have to rev the motor out higher to get to the power. You going to take the motor to a minimum of 5,000rpm everytime you leave a stoplight just to see some boost on the gauge? Not in a daily driver. And if you have to ask me "why not use a smaller turbo?" I would point out one critical oversight: you will spend just as much building an sr20det to support 400 as it costs to build one for 550. If we can get 350HP out of a stock engine ($1200 longblock) then it does not make sense to spend an additional $6000+ (the price of 5 stock longblocks, approx 250,000 miles of reliable daily driving) for a built engine that only provides an extra 50-100 horsepower. In other words, once you pass the 350hp bracket, the price of the engine multiplies by 5 times, and the chances of successfully getting a reliable engine decreases by approx the same factor of 5 or more.


:rofl:

This is about 5% true, but keep telling the masses this is not so.


As mentioned in my thread, your ideas of a 340WHP is properly outdated and there are plenty of 400WHP SRs that do not use a VE head that do multiple trackdays and race series with vary nary a failure. Read: Cody Ace. Some 40 plus trackdays at 400WHP and he has yet to have a failure. And 1 track day equals about 5 years of abuse that you would ever place on your car just doddling around on the streets.

In addition with tuning, a good flowing head and a EFR turbo, a 450-500WHP SR will perform as mundane as a D series Honda out of boost and be very drivable in boost with nary a downside. I see it time and time again and not sure why you choose to not open your eyes and come to the realization that: Technology has advanced WAY beyond what you may think and you need to bring yourself to the turn of the century.

A well setup Haltech or AEM vehicle with proper failsafes works plenty magic.

Also, I have yet to buy a used SR I would use as a coffee table much less to throw in my car. These engines are almost 30 years old and people seem to think they are worth gold and asking 2500 for a S13 full swap with unknown mileage, leaking oil, with shit tunes, rat nest for wiring harness and missing all sorts of parts. Not to mention driven into a wall more times that there are hours in a year.

S15 engines are the youngest at 15 years old at best and 20 years old at the worst. 20 YEARS OLD! That's almost as old as I am young. And guess what?? People want minimum 2000 for a S15 long block.........Swaps are $3,500 and full swaps are almost $5,000 (from radiator to exhaust tip).

I will welcome you with open arms to the 21st century once you get a phone that can actually receive text messages (much less picture messages) and you are able to accept that Technology is capable of wondrous things, not something to play ignorance on.

And time is money: So now I buy a used SR with all these demands (which almost none will be met in that 1200 price range lol), swap it in, spend a bunch on miscellaneous and still have a stock SR with unknown history??

I mean shit, isn't that what got the OP in this mess to begin with?? Buying a block (or in this case, an entire vehicle) that is suppose to be in fantastic condition only to find with less than 20 psi compression on 2 cylinders?!?! :tardrim::tardrim::tardrim: