RB25 with RB20 head? - Please help!

[PW180SX]

Hey guys,

Alight, so I purchased an RB25DET with transmission from Tiger Japanese, got it in and here is what it is. At first glance all wrapped up, looked just like a regular RB25 to me.

Took it to my warehouse, and started to look into it. I had already purchased an RB25 freddy intake manifold for it, so I started with that. First things I notice is the AAC sensor is 4 bolt, not 3 bolt like RB25's. Second, the throttle body is smaller and wouldn't fit even with the adapter plate. Then I take the entire manifold off the RB25, and notice...it doesn't line up at all. Then I noticed it doesn't have the hump on the VC's for the VVT, nor the front cover. It looks exactly like an RB20 head...but why is it on an RB25 block? Is that even possible? Or did Nissan have an old version of RB25 that didn't come with VVT? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2864/8796595760_669fb3d60f_z.jpg
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3681/8796596424_e4ca721184_z.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8544/8786017997_ef25d028da_z.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7354/8796599106_eb24f96bca_z.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7333/8786085177_eaccb9c95c_z.jpg
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2877/8796596006_c9e7894bd1_z.jpg
(shitty picture of the stamp, but it says rb25)

[S12 Drifter]

sorry to say it looks like a RB25DE with turbo stuff on it, as far as i know only RB25De's came with no VCT

either that or it's a RB20 with a RB25 spark plug cover. what does the block stamp say on the exhaust side near the bottom transmission bolt? RB20? or RB25?

EDIT: OP looks a lot like a RB20 put it back together and give them a call asap.

[240boi115]

wow looks like you got screwed over....^^^^agreed an rb20 put together to look like a rb25. now ive heard it all.:picardfp:

[PW180SX]

That was my first guess, but the block stamp is infact stamped RB25. I have a picture up, it's kinda shitty sorry. But yeah, doesn't say RB20 anywhere on it. Is there a way I can identify the head? Maybe a serial number or something?

[S12 Drifter]

That was my first guess, but the block stamp is infact stamped RB25. I have a picture up, it's kinda shitty sorry. But yeah, doesn't say RB20 anywhere on it. Is there a way I can identify the head? Maybe a serial number or something?


if thats the case it's probably a RB25DE converted to a turbo.

[hobbs]

Wouldn't put it past TJ to slap a turbo setup off of a bad motor onto a regular RB25DE.

[S12 Drifter]

Wouldn't put it past TJ to slap a turbo setup off of a bad motor onto a regular RB25DE.

i wouldn't trust them at all.

[Bmxer300zx]

Wow
That must be a r32 rb25de, the r33 had a bulge on the cover for the nvcs. Whats the turbo say for a marking? 16v or 45v?
You sir have a rb25de+T conversion it's actually quite popular oversea's
I'd call and ask they probably just looked at the block# and saw it was turbo and assumed I highly doubt they went through all that trouble to swap everthing around.

[Bmxer300zx]

I looked quick, I troll this forum alot and hear talk of what you have.
Basically if your rb25det plenum doesn't fit you have a r32 rb25 it uses the same intake manifold as a rb20 but... the intake ports are bigger for the rb25 so even buying a rb20 aftermarket manifold will require a bit of "porting"
intake swap (http://forums.gtrcanada.com/gts-tech/28242-intake-swap.html)
^^(read 3/4 way down)^^
I'd call and demand a return with the exchange of a neo6 motor to make up for the fuckup ;)

[S12 Drifter]

I looked quick, I troll this forum alot and hear talk of what you have.
Basically if your rb25det plenum doesn't fit you have a r32 rb25 it uses the same intake manifold as a rb20 but... the intake ports are bigger for the rb25 so even buying a rb20 aftermarket manifold will require a bit of "porting"
intake swap (http://forums.gtrcanada.com/gts-tech/28242-intake-swap.html)
^^(read 3/4 way down)^^
I'd call and demand a return with the exchange of a neo6 motor to make up for the fuckup ;)

+1 for the rb25 neo

[PW180SX]

Hmm, alright thanks a lot guys! Definitely helps knowing what I got. Tiger Japanese replied with this to my case:
"The buyer can open a claim on our website at JDM Tiger Japanese Claims System (http://www.tigerclaim.com) we will send him the parts which has been damaged on the shipping."

haha, I'm not asking for a replacement on the damaged parts. I want what I paid for. Bmxer300zx, thanks for that link. I did so a few image searches before and the head does look exactly like an RB20 head, which had me guessing.

I'll see what I can get from them, and keep this thread updated.

[S12 Drifter]

next time you buy a RB fork out a little bit more money and get one from Raw brokerage if shit flew like that from RB people would get fired.

they even supply you with parts if need be to finish swap. Take this as a lesson learned. do research on who you're buying from, knowledge is indeed power. just do a quick google on tigerjapanese reviews and you see some pretty bad reviews.

i even saw one post someone bad where someone stuff a rag in the cylinder block for a honda meaning it was taking apart forgot and left. :wtf:

[Bmxer300zx]

It's understandable most don't relize there was a na rb25 for the r32 they look close to a rb20, even the r33 na rocker covers are flat versus the turbo raised back. The thing that had me scratching for a few was no nvcs bulge or the rb25det intake manifold didnt fit. I didn't know it right off but when I sourced a forward plenum for my rb20 a while back I stumbled on that and remebered lol.
Btw what turbo does your motor run? Im curious if its a rb20 or 25. The rb20 was a 16v, the rb25 was a 45v.

[Bmxer300zx]

next time you buy a RB fork out a little bit more money and get one from Raw brokerage if shit flew like that from RB people would get fired.

they even supply you with parts if need be to finish swap. Take this as a lesson learned. do research on who you're buying from, knowledge is indeed power. just do a quick google on tigerjapanese reviews and you see some pretty bad reviews.

i even saw one post someone bad where someone stuff a rag in the cylinder block for a honda meaning it was taking apart forgot and left. :wtf:

This is why I pickup my swaps, luckily I'm close to 4 places I usually get a motor that hasn't been pressure washed yet and make sure all electrical and wiring is good as well. Lol alota those guys have no idea what they're looking at in there, they're there for a pay check

[S12 Drifter]

This is why I pickup my swaps, luckily I'm close to 4 places I usually get a motor that hasn't been pressure washed yet and make sure all electrical and wiring is good as well. Lol alota those guys have no idea what they're looking at in there, they're there for a pay check

yea agreed. before i bought my RB20 i did months of research just to know what i was getting my self into. when i went to pick it up looked exactly the way it was suppose to and checked out. only thing that threw me off was the head gasket. turned out it was a race motor in japan, acl main and rod bearings with arp studs and 1.2mm H/G.

[PW180SX]

Indeed. I did quite a bit of research on RB25's, just not the rest. I googled reviews, and read good ones and bad ones, but that was about every company I searched for. Oh well, lesson learned.

Tiger Japanese replied with this on my case:

"The right engine has been sent, but looks the buyer has changed his mind and looking for something which we do not know what that is. VVT does not come in RB20, RB25 and RB26. The buyer must return the item in original condition with in 10 days. The buyer will also pay %25 restocking fee."

Then they escalated it to a claim, so I am unable to reply..

Also, I'll check and see what turbo it has once I'm off work.

[slideslidegnarslide]

Don't pay them a cent! They tried to rip you off. That wasn't done by mistake those guys know what is what. Send engine back and get new engine at no cost to you or lawyer up and screw that shitty company over.

[hobbs]

25% restocking fee on their fuckup? They didn't even use lube on that one...

[S12 Drifter]

Theres nothing wrong with the NA RB25DE you have but it is kinda a low kick in the bawls it's not what you paid for.

you can use a VVT cam from a 25 and all that but it's a problem that should not have existed. all RB25's came with VCT except the N/A's. you can get a machine shop to drill a external oil tap for the VCT cam operation.

if you dont want vct and can live with a little lag then just deal with it. worse comes to worse you can swap a 26 or 25 head on but again it's a problem that should not be there anyway.

O.P how much did you pay for the RB?

I would assemble the motor and seek legal advice.

[ThirtyTwo]

Early rb25det engines came without vct; that's probably what you have. Tiger Japanese didn't fuck up, they just gave you an older engine.

[S12 Drifter]

Early rb25det engines came without vct; that's probably what you have. Tiger Japanese didn't fuck up, they just gave you an older engine.

show factual information please, I'm curious about this.

[Bmxer300zx]

As far as I was aware there was never an rb25deT only the na version in the r32 as soon as the r33 came out any edition rb25 after was with NVCS.

[Bmxer300zx]

Indeed. I did quite a bit of research on RB25's, just not the rest. I googled reviews, and read good ones and bad ones, but that was about every company I searched for. Oh well, lesson learned.

Tiger Japanese replied with this on my case:

"The right engine has been sent, but looks the buyer has changed his mind and looking for something which we do not know what that is. VVT does not come in RB20, RB25 and RB26. The buyer must return the item in original condition with in 10 days. The buyer will also pay %25 restocking fee."

Then they escalated it to a claim, so I am unable to reply..

Also, I'll check and see what turbo it has once I'm off work.

Also they're idiots because its easy to see the rb25 r33/34 has nvcs also the RB20 NEO6 Had nvcs as more

[R_34]

Check the casting number on the head.
It's on the exhaust side beyond N°1 cylinder.

08U-# : R32 RB25DE.
73L-# : R32 RB20DET (maybe DE too ?).

[ThirtyTwo]

show factual information please, I'm curious about this.

It is factual information. If you would like to reference my original sources then I'm sorry to say I can't recall where I originally found this information. But a quick Google search shows this thread (post #6) that backs up my statement Variable Cam Timing (VCT) - RB25DET (http://forums.gtrcanada.com/gts-tech/16530-variable-cam-timing-vct-rb25det.html#post1)


R33 RB25DET's started out with no VCT, but then changed... from what I've seen it seems like the VCT RB25DET's started a year into the R33 production start (aroudn when the GTR's started).



The wiki page on rb engines also mentions that they didn't introduce vct until August of '93 which supports the idea that R33s manufactured before August '93 would not have vct.

[wahhpshh]

wouldnt injectors/fuel rail also be a heads up since the rb20 is a top feed and 25 is side feed? i couldnt notice in the picture with all the hoses/sub harness' blocking view.

[R_34]

An other strange thing. Your RB25 doesn't have an oil cooler.
To my knowledge all RB25DET got one.

@wahhpshh
You can see this one use top-feed injectors (pic n°3 ).

[S12 Drifter]

It is factual information. If you would like to reference my original sources then I'm sorry to say I can't recall where I originally found this information. But a quick Google search shows this thread (post #6) that backs up my statement Variable Cam Timing (VCT) - RB25DET (http://forums.gtrcanada.com/gts-tech/16530-variable-cam-timing-vct-rb25det.html#post1)






The wiki page on rb engines also mentions that they didn't introduce vct until August of '93 which supports the idea that R33s manufactured before August '93 would not have vct.

Ahhhh! okay thanks! I was not aware of that! helps to know that piece of info.

[wahhpshh]

@wahhpshh
You can see this one use top-feed injectors (pic n°3 ).

i couldnt see that well from my phone. but now i notice on my pc.

[PrimeDirective]

Wow, what a mutant RB.... at least you got a RB25 transmission.

I wonder what MAFS and ECU it uses.

Send that shit back, even if you pay 25% restocking I think the headaches this thing is going to cause you would be worth it in the long run.

[Bmxer300zx]

Rb25/26 heads are interchangable why people do rb30 blocks with the heads. The rb20 heads don't fit onto a rb30/26/25 block. The first rb30 Det used a rb20 head but it took major modification to mate the head to the block. Its a Na rb25 outa the later year R32 made to turbo just look at youtube and type in rb20de+t or rb25de+t it's a very common thing in Australia and japan.
Unless that post on the gtr forum is true about first year rb25 r33 having no vtc/nvcs then you have a rare motor lol

[PW180SX]

So much info, thanks for all the input guys! I still haven't had a chance to look into it and get some numbers off of it until I get off work, so within an hour or so I'll update with the markings on the head, turbo, etc.

Let's see what this thing really is. But from what you guys are telling me, I'm convinced it's a RB25DE with a turbo slapped on, or an early model without the VTC.

Thanks again to everyone who put some input on this situation!

[jr_ss]

I bet it's a pre 93' NON-NVCS factory RB25DET motor...

[PW180SX]

Head marking: 08U
Turbo marking: 16V

So, RB25DE with an RB20 turbo? Lame sauce..

[Bmxer300zx]

Head marking: 08U
Turbo marking: 16V

So, RB25DE with an RB20 turbo? Lame sauce..

What it probably really is is someone with a r32 rb20det just upgraded motors when theres blew up lol I actually will be doing the same when mine pops. Funny though I never knew the r32 rb25de was combatible with the rb20 FFIM hmm... good to know? Lol
Anyway I found this idk if you can figure anything out woth markings on your block
RB25 Engine Number Register (http://webbersrbguide.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48:rb25-engine-number-register&catid=42:engine-number-registers&Itemid=2)

[Bmxer300zx]

Ehh just looked the block markings you have up don't really match anything they already have unless there's other markings.
Idk if you have a 16v turbo thats one more thing to call out Tigerjdm on tell them all rb25 turbos have nvcs/vtc, a lump on rocker cover, and a 45v turbo also tell them your rb25det intake manifold doesn't fit because the Na's have a different intake runner pattern

[jr_ss]

That is lame sauce. What is your plan on action?

[S12 Drifter]

could it actually be a RB20 with the block marking erased and marked as a RB25? it's a possibility.

[Bmxer300zx]

could it actually be a RB20 with the block marking erased and marked as a RB25? it's a possibility.

Only one way to find out...... crack that bitch open and do some measuring!

[EvilRB]

Damn man sounds like you got screwed... but you know the saying when life gives you lemons...

If I were you and can't get your money back or another engine I'd look into alternatives with this, from reading up on these I think I saw a really badd ass old school version useing this exact motor that used a ITB setup with custom twin turbo that just sounded amazing!
I'm going to have to find that video but there was somethign different about this engine compared to regular RB25's that made this a good canidate for this so you might have a gem on your hands and a chance to do something different.
What car you putting this into?
also hit up the guys on Skylines AU. they problably have more experience with this version of engine.

[S12 Drifter]

put it on a stand crack the oil pan open and get a caliper and measure the bottom of the cylinder i guess?

seriously you might not have to? seek legal advice.

[PW180SX]

Ehh just looked the block markings you have up don't really match anything they already have unless there's other markings.
Idk if you have a 16v turbo thats one more thing to call out Tigerjdm on tell them all rb25 turbos have nvcs/vtc, a lump on rocker cover, and a 45v turbo also tell them your rb25det intake manifold doesn't fit because the Na's have a different intake runner pattern

Yeah I looked up the other markings and can't find much, but I'm pretty much sold on it being an RB25DE. Everything else makes sense, I just need to look into it a little further.

That is lame sauce. What is your plan on action?
At the moment, still trying with this dispute via Paypal. They're raised it to a claim so I can't input any more information (cause they don't want me too), so just waiting until it's my turn then I'll submit every bit of information I have on this.

If Paypal decides to side with TigerJapanese, well, I'll stick with the DE. It sucks considering it's not what I paid for, but could eventually be an interesting build.

could it actually be a RB20 with the block marking erased and marked as a RB25? it's a possibility.

Could be, but the markings on the block look too OEM to be messed with.

Damn man sounds like you got screwed... but you know the saying when life gives you lemons...

If I were you and can't get your money back or another engine I'd look into alternatives with this, from reading up on these I think I saw a really badd ass old school version useing this exact motor that used a ITB setup with custom twin turbo that just sounded amazing!
I'm going to have to find that video but there was somethign different about this engine compared to regular RB25's that made this a good canidate for this so you might have a gem on your hands and a chance to do something different.
What car you putting this into?
also hit up the guys on Skylines AU. they problably have more experience with this version of engine.
Yeah I've looked into these motors a LOT since I've received one haha. I'll probably do something interesting with it, it could be a fun build but would be much better if I could get what I paid for :)

It's going into my S13:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8524/8644616102_006431632a_z.jpg


put it on a stand crack the oil pan open and get a caliper and measure the bottom of the cylinder i guess?

seriously you might not have to? seek legal advice.
Yeah, if luck isn't on my side on this one I'll crack it open and do some measurements to get the exact bore on this thing.

Again I appreciate everyone's input, I'll update this with the outcome of the claim.

But so far, lets just say this:

Tiger Japanese can go to HELL. If they want to play dirty and screw me, the customer who sent them 2100$ over...they'll be seeing quite a few reviews with their name plastered all over the internet. May not change a thing, but I know I'll feel better about letting the world know of my experiences with these douche bags.

[EvilRB]

Nice! Good luck man!

[davidpham]

Wow at first I thought this thread was about swapping rb20 head into rb25 so i click on it, then as i read and read it got interesting. sucks that you didnt get what you paid for. Goodluck! I hope things turns out well. I wanna know what happen at the end

[S12 Drifter]

if worse comes to worse you can order a RB30 and you have a cylinder head for it. :bigok:

[lgsr20swap]

So how did u make out. I too thought this was about rb20 on rb25

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

[PW180SX]

Well, turns out it definitely is an early model R32 RB25DE with an RB20 turbo setup slapped onto it.

I went ahead and did the full swap, ran an RB20 harness and ECU. It's interesting to say the least but it's not what I wanted so it's being parted out actually lol. But here's a few photo's. Don't mind the crossover intake - I would have gone with the traditional Greddy manifold but unfortunately the intake manifold flange is different so I had to make due :/

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3761/10935131625_49eab9cdc1_o.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7305/10063365416_27f6d238bb_c.jpg

Sorry no good pictures of it lol.

[supersayianjim]

so did this run?? and if so how well??

[di-devol]

Did they make good with you on the sale? Or did you just not say anything and keep it?

[PW180SX]

so did this run?? and if so how well??
Yeah it ran, but not very well. But it didn't help that the fuel rail was clogged with dirt and the turbo was blown from the get-go.. :/

Did they make good with you on the sale? Or did you just not say anything and keep it?

Nope, they screwed me over. Paypal sided with them so I got no chance for a refund. I attempted to contact them and send pics etc of their mistake and they just said that I was just trying to get out of the sale because I "didn't want it" anymore.

Really? I would of gladly exchanged the motor for the correct one I purchased but they just thought I was bullshitting them. So in the end I got screwed, so with that being said - I will NEVER deal with Tiger Japanese ever again.

[di-devol]

Yeah it ran, but not very well. But it didn't help that the fuel rail was clogged with dirt and the turbo was blown from the get-go.. :/



Nope, they screwed me over. Paypal sided with them so I got no chance for a refund. I attempted to contact them and send pics etc of their mistake and they just said that I was just trying to get out of the sale because I "didn't want it" anymore.

Really? I would of gladly exchanged the motor for the correct one I purchased but they just thought I was bullshitting them. So in the end I got screwed, so with that being said - I will NEVER deal with Tiger Japanese ever again.

How the hell did paypal side with them? LOL!

[No 240.. No id]

If you trying to get a motor swap, then go to jdmhookup in st. Louis, very cool guy, that actually go to japan and pick the motors him self. A lot of people know him here on this forum.

He don't bring modified motors. Everything he get is completely stock, and he don't pressure wash them.

[PW180SX]

How the hell did paypal side with them? LOL!

Who the hell knows! I even provided pictures of the motor, pictures of what was shown on the page I purchased from, etc. They still sided with them...what a joke.

If you trying to get a motor swap, then go to jdmhookup in st. Louis, very cool guy, that actually go to japan and pick the motors him self. A lot of people know him here on this forum.

He don't bring modified motors. Everything he get is completely stock, and he don't pressure wash them.

Sounds good, thanks for the heads up!

[Yellow4g63]

American express it with paypal next time. If paypal tells you to kick rocks American Express will fix it for you and tell pay pal to F$ck off.