RB20DET Stupid mistake

[Priddy]

So I traded my old VW for a s13 RB20DET and my ignitor went bad.

Long story short, knowing nothing about 240s, I went to a local import shop. I told them what I needed and they gave me a new ignitor. Unfortunately what I didn't know was that the previous owner had done a j30 swap and they had given me a stock rb20det one. I got the right one but not before it was too late.

Now the starter sometimes just spins and doesn't engage the flywheel. When it does however it cranks and sometimes it starts for half a second and other times it just cranks but doesnt start.

I've been looking everywherr and can't find anything that might explain what I fried.

I appreciate anybody that could help me.
Thanks! :banghead:

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[SLiDe_WaYz]

You need a new starter good sir. Sounds like the gear for the starter isn't coming out and engaging.

Any more details you could provide?

[Priddy]

Yeah I assume I might have messed it up. The only thing is sometimes it does engage. Even then it just keeps cranking. On very rare occassions thought it does start but instantly dies. I just want to make sure that using the rb20 ignitor instead of the j30 and trying to start it didnt fry the ecu or anything.



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[S14DB]

The J30 ignitor looks a lot different than the RB. The input and output are on different sides. one being a 6 pin and the other being a 7. The extra pin is for ground.

Any part numbers on the ignitors? What colors are the wires on the 6 and 7 pin side?

[Priddy]

I guess im rambling too much but,

1. Accidently replaced j30 ignitor with rb20.
2. Realized mistake after research and quickly went and got the j30 ignitor.
3. Now starter is sometimes engaging and sometimes not.
4. When it does catch it just cranks and rarely it will start for a second and then die back down.

Sorry if im not explaining well.

The original ignitor before all of this...

[SLiDe_WaYz]

Lets ask this, did you constantly turn the key to get the car to start? Like as in turn key and keep turning until it starts? I ask because when I was a noob I did this with my SR and it broke my starter. The little gear that makes it come out to turn the flywheel stopped working. It would SOMETIMES start and then die. It did exactly what your describing.

So with that said have you checked and made sure your getting spark and fuel? If your getting power to everything else I would try another starter. Maybe some of the OG's will chime in I don't want to steer u in the wrong direction. It just sounds like what happened to me in my past years.

[Priddy]

Yes that is exactly what hapoened. Ill try to get a new starter and see what happends.

Thanks!

[S14DB]

What is your battery voltage?

[Priddy]

I need to check, but its a relatively new battery.

[S14DB]

Could have drained it with all your cranking.

[Priddy]

Ok so before I go and buy a new starter I decided to try and just full charge the battery. I noticed a difference.

Now it will crank and start but as soon as it starts the starter slips and just spins and then the car dies after teo seconds

700 cold cranking amps

[SLiDe_WaYz]

Sounds like you broke the teeth on the starter

[Priddy]

Hmm ok looks like ill be getting a new starter.

[S14DB]

Pull the starter and look at the gears.
If they are intact, look in the starter hole at the flywheel's teeth and see if they are there.
You may want to turn the motor over by hand(ratchet on the crank) and have someone look at all the teeth.

If they are all there too. Take it to the autoparts store and have them test it. The last possible thing is that the solenoid is gone.

[Priddy]

Ok thanks. It just confuses me that it will not slip until the motor starts. Then it slips and the motor dies.

[OrangeVirus1]

the starter isnt meant to spin at idle rpms, they are made for like 300rpm or so just to get it going.

[Priddy]

Yes I know and what im saying is right at the point the engine starts the start just starts to spin and the engine dies. Starter could be unrelated to engine dying. Im just guessing.

[OrangeVirus1]

attempt a rolling start.. see what happens

[Priddy]

Hiwd I not think of that :banghead::banghead:

[Priddy]

Ok had a buddy of mine who actually isn't mechanically disabled come over and help me diagnose. He's suggestting that my timing is off so hopefully thats all it is.

[OrangeVirus1]

better hope that it isn't mechanical timing, or your valves are screwed

[Prof Chaos]

Check the mechanical timing, remove the timing belt cover and turn the engine over 2 full rotations.
The cam gears each have a pin in the middle which makes placement of the gears one way only. Its impossible not to see it, use a paint pen to mark the tooth on that cam gear that is straight out from that pen.

When you turn te engine over 2 times that mark should like up with the timing marks on the backing plate behind the cam gears (small raised lines maybe an inch long, cant miss them)once out of the 2 rotations.
I it doesnt then the mechanical timing is off, if not check the timing mark on the harmonic balancer/crank pulley.
Use the same process if the cam gears line up, except you on the crank pulley there should be degree marks and numbers, keep the lower timing cover on for this. The timig mark should line up at the 0 degree mark, which is the most left line.... This should line up at the same time as the cam gears align, if not the mechanical timing is off.

If its on make sure the cam timing is correct (not positive about how what degree it needs to be, look at the fsm)
It is also possible that you may have a fuel issue, its possible the fuel lines are switched on the fuel rail(do not change until timing is checked) also it does at least run so you have spark.
If you check both timing and its fine then you may also have a massive vaccuum leak, unlikely but check all the vaccum lines and make sure there is nothing left unconnected.... May also be the maf as well
Thats pretty much all it could be

But if the mechanical timing is off, your valves are most likely fucked

I recently had a similar issue, all the electronics and timing were perfect.... But i had no compression so the piston rings were no bueno, compression is suposed to be 180 across te board, and i had 30...
If it were me, check timing then compression before stressing about other things, because it will be the most simple.

The CAS is also an important part that is known to go out, to check it turn your key to the on position, remove the CAS and spin it by hand.. Listen for small "clicks" on each injector, if it does click the cas is fine.

[Priddy]

Thanks so much! Yeah also figured out that I have a battery draw somewhere.

Im determined to do as much myself as I can so that I can learn.

[Prof Chaos]

I did the exact same thing, except i shot a rod out of the engine and swapped another in by myself, while shooting in the dark.

Luckily i was able to contact te guy who originally did the swap back in 2007, wouldnt have been an issue but i have an infiniti m30 not an s13 so it was even harder to find out about it.

And even so that i had a couple people that were in the area that were knowledgabl about rb20's, no one really helped me... So im out to help anyone who may be in the same boat as me