Rebuilding my KA

[stEEZE nikkAA]

Picked up a running 94 vert about a month or so ago. Super clean frame rails, good exterior, and a RUNNING KA24DE. All for $800. Car is all stock and was owned by a middle aged couple. Overall, it was a great pick up.

My plans are to pull the motor out, rebuild it, swap the auto trans for a 5 speed, and clean up the bay. First off is the engine rebuild, so I got some questions to ask you guys.

I will be doing a basic rebuild. New gaskets, seals, timing chain, pistons, rings, bearings, belts, and other parts that go through normal wear. The motor has 180,000 miles on it. Currently burns oil and coolant, and leaks oil. I've researched all over the internet on what brands I should stay away from and what brands to choose.

Once the block is stripped down, I'll be sending it to the machine shop to be hot tanked. I'll have them inspect it to let me know if I'll need oversized bearings.

The rebuild kit I have my eye on is sold by RPM Machines. I've read nothing but good things about their kits. From what I've gathered, the brands are pretty damn good.

- Gaskets: Felpro
- Bearings: Clevite 77
- Timing chain: Cloyes
- Pistons: Sterling or Silvolite Pistons (Are these brands any good?)
- Rings: From their website it says they use Perfect Circle or Sealed Power Rings. Are these brands also any good? NPR is the only other option that I've read about.

So here are the questions that I have for you guys. Any help would be appreciated.

- The kit only comes with a timing chain. Can I use my current timing components or would they require changing? Like I said, the motor has 180k miles. I'll inspect the tensioner and guides when the motor is apart.

- It says that freeze plugs come with the kit. Should I bother replacing the ones on the block right now?

- Is ARP the only option to go for head studs? Not really building a super high performance engine.. just simple bolt-ons to get the car sideways.

- Is it necessary to replace the camshaft bearings, or will changing only the main/rod bearings suffice? Was thinking that the main/rod bearings undergo more load and stress than the camshaft bearings, but :wan: ..

If anyone has any other suggestions on what parts or kit I should consider, please chime in. Not making any purchases until the motor is completely ready for a rebuild.

[daily missile]

im using felpro gaskets. its just your basic stuff from oreillys. my friend said he used felpro head studs (auto store ones) and he snapped one. so im trying them as well, otherwise id go for arp.

the sealed power rings are also oreilly. im using those as well as sealed power rod bearings.

and if the freeze plugs arent currently leaking, dont mess with them. i replaced 2 on my block only cause previous guy drilled them out.

and spend the little extra to replace the crank bearings. its kinda like putting in a new clutch without getting flywheel resurfaced.

[stEEZE nikkAA]

What brand crank bearings do you recommend?

[daily missile]

not quite sure. clevite is good. but the sealed power ones look okay. just make sure you check the wear specs with plastigauge. this thread helped me-
www.ka-t.org :: View topic - How to build a KA24DE (http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4156)

and this is where i found torque specs-
KA24DE Torque Specs (for rebuild) (http://www.driftstl.com/forums/showthread.php?9883-KA24DE-Torque-Specs-%28for-rebuild%29)

[waxball88]

As long as you dont have power goals much beyond stock felpro/clevite/npr will do fine

[guitargod240]

honestly man id just go with OEM genuine nissan parts. i just rebuilt my ka for 2nd time. forst time i didnt know what i was doing and trusted my uncle and headgasket blew. Fixed and rebuilt and used everything nissan rings, gasket kit, did use clevite bearings stock clearnace, no nissan timing kit cause i was dumb and bought ebay one for like $80 few years ago. makes some noise and ticks and guide is removed but engine is great and pretty quick. everything you need nissan sells oem, i know the chain kit is like 400 but man it will be worth it in the long run. please dont cheap out on your timing chain kit u will regret it, thats the most expensive thing to fyi. also headstuds get oem. go to courtesyparts.com and chekc your year and everything im saying. might be more money but its best option for a fresh rebuild. just my .02 and my engines great and my 3rd cylinder even has a slight taper "says machine shop" i did valve job and alot more to lol. let me know how it goes. good luck!

[stEEZE nikkAA]

^Thanks for the advice. As for the timing kit, I know to stay away from ebay components. I did hear of Cloyes being a good timing kit. Rockauto sells the whole kit, guides/tensioner/2chainz (see what I did there) all for $119. Really don't have the money to fork up a few hundred dollars on 4 pieces of metal...

[guitargod240]

trust me man i hear ya if anything id save and buy the nissan one or even just buy a peice at a time. both chains are 120 and then buy like cloyes tensioners or vice cersa u know. it is four peices of metal but they pretty much run ka's lol. just sayin i wish i did and am going to buy the nissan kit when i can. try and budget it out to get parts seperate or some nissan and some cloyes then make rest nissan later. id buy nissan chains so you dont have to time engine again and just get cloyes tensioners and change em when u can. there like 65 and 50 or something i dont remember. you know what i mean?

[s14j]

i would go with a osk, or oem timing chain man, gone threw my fair share of experince and seen other.

[stEEZE nikkAA]

Went to Touge Factory today and talked to them about my rebuild. Came up with some conclusions.

- I'm looking into the Cometic gasket set. Turns out pretty much every head gasket out there are paper gaskets. Comeitc is the only one they recommended (even over OEM) for the head gasket since it's MLS construction. Since I'll be using Cometic's head gasket, I might as well use Cometic for everything else.

- Seems like Clevite is a good brand for bearings from what you guys have mentioned. Right now I'm looking into King bearings. Would pull the trigger right now and buy them, but I still need to go to the machine shop and have them tell me what size I'll need. 91 92 93 94 Nissan 240sx 2 4L Engine Rod Main Bearings w Piston Rings KA24DE | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/91-92-93-94-NISSAN-240SX-2-4L-ENGINE-ROD-MAIN-BEARINGS-w-PISTON-RINGS-KA24DE-/140688093626?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20c1a9f1ba&vxp=mtr) <-- Looks like a sweet deal for main & crank bearings, as well as NPR rings. What do you guys think?

- Timing components are the main issue from what I see. Yes, everyone is saying go OEM. I'll bite the bullet and go for the Cloyes kit. I've read way too much about timing shit for this motor and it gets annoying lol.

- Got a question about the fasteners in the motor. I'll be using ARP. From what I know, there are the head studs, main studs, and the connecting rod bolts. I know the head studs have that expansive property where they can only be torqued once. Are the main studs and connecting rod bolts the same? Or is it safe to reuse my stock ones?

[dawagarage]

go with oem if you can afford it, if not, any reputable brand will do.
clevite & federal mogul are pretty good. im using their parts in my rebuild, both were
made in japan.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/2d586f76b0128c10e374cbf6d9db8a9a/tumblr_mf35061n4X1qe7x6po2_400.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/fab1a4c3a2a496385d5347a0c0e4eb0c/tumblr_mf35061n4X1qe7x6po3_400.jpg

since youre rebuilding your engine to start from stock, an oem or equivalent head gasket will be fine, since AGAIN, youre just restoring it to stock (aka not turbo'ing it.)
but again, if you got the dime, go ahead and spend it for the piece of mind if youd like.

you dont even have to spring for arp studs, etc since youre just rebuilding to stock, but again, its all about piece of mind.

as for the connecting rod bolts, maind studs, as long as they are 'good,' they can be reused. i got that from this book
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8ptjr6Cnk1qe7x6po2_500.jpg
the one suggestion is that you bring those bolts in for the machinist to check.

[dawagarage]

even though that book doesnt cover the KA, it covers the engines that precede the KA, so the information is all pretty similar, just as almost every engine rebuild is similar.

you shouldnt buy anything before the engine is at the machine shop. if your bores have too much wear, you might have to get over size pistons as well.
once your pistons are determined good OR you replace them, then theyll tell you if your rods are good, and at the same time theyll tell you if the rod bolts are good.

[stEEZE nikkAA]

Thanks a bunch for the reassurance. I will use reputable aftermarket parts only, if not OEM. I think I'll just go ahead and get the ARP studs since they are reusable (to a certain extent) and will give me peace of mind like you said. I am waiting till the block goes to the shop before I purchase anything for the sake of oversized components. Hopefully the shop will be brutally honest with me when it comes to letting me know if my bolts and what not are good haha

[MamangSorbetero]

I'm rebuilding my KA too. SOHC however.

I've gotten a timing chain kit from FRSport; an OSK Japan brand. Bearings I believe I would go with Clevite. ARP hardware for the head, main girdle and rods. Felpro generic gaskets because most of the engine gaskets are paper from OEM anyway. (Plus I buy them at the Autozone I work at which has a lifetime warranty on everything so I'm set). Felpro headgasket because I'm not gonna turbo any time soon.

Pistons and rings I'll most likely go OEM on pistons but NPR on rings. Still have to check clearances though. Bought OEM freezeplugs. ARP exhaust hardware.

It's gonna be just fine the only problem is money. As long as you don't go cheap and seek eBay you're fine. Go OEM for the important stuff like woodruff keys, crank, lifters and valves. I chose ARP because they're the easy accessible brand for studs and hardware that already come pre-measured for your KA. FRSport sells a bunch for the twin-cam KA. Studs are way stronger than OEM bolts if you install them correctly; they don't stretch overtime like bolts do and they don't have shaft torque when you're finalizing the measurements. (ARP's do stretch just not as dramatic as OEM overtime)

[daily missile]

just finished my rebuild a day ago. put the timing covers on and oil pan on today

[itwillboost]

It seems every thing your doing is good, except stay with a felpro gasket, cosmetics are infamous for not fully sealing.

[stEEZE nikkAA]

I'm rebuilding my KA too. SOHC however.

I've gotten a timing chain kit from FRSport; an OSK Japan brand. Bearings I believe I would go with Clevite. ARP hardware for the head, main girdle and rods. Felpro generic gaskets because most of the engine gaskets are paper from OEM anyway. (Plus I buy them at the Autozone I work at which has a lifetime warranty on everything so I'm set). Felpro headgasket because I'm not gonna turbo any time soon.

Pistons and rings I'll most likely go OEM on pistons but NPR on rings. Still have to check clearances though. Bought OEM freezeplugs. ARP exhaust hardware.

It's gonna be just fine the only problem is money. As long as you don't go cheap and seek eBay you're fine. Go OEM for the important stuff like woodruff keys, crank, lifters and valves. I chose ARP because they're the easy accessible brand for studs and hardware that already come pre-measured for your KA. FRSport sells a bunch for the twin-cam KA. Studs are way stronger than OEM bolts if you install them correctly; they don't stretch overtime like bolts do and they don't have shaft torque when you're finalizing the measurements. (ARP's do stretch just not as dramatic as OEM overtime)

Yeah, definitely going with ARP fasteners. I definitely won't be going with ebay parts cuz I've heard enough bad things about them lol. And good point about gaskets.

just finished my rebuild a day ago. put the timing covers on and oil pan on today

how's it holding up? keep me up to date

It seems every thing your doing is good, except stay with a felpro gasket, cosmetics are infamous for not fully sealing.

hmm, I'll read up more about cometics not sealing up. I'm getting so much mixed reviews about felpro vs. cometic. But honestly, I don't think I can go wrong with either one.


From what you guys have all told me, I think I got the parts listed out.

- Fel-Pro Gasket Set
- King rod & main bearings
- NPR Rings
- Clevite Timing Kit
- ARP Fasteners


Got a question though. Everywhere I look, I see bearings (Clevite, ACL, King, etc.) for over $100 for the main and rod. But these 91 92 93 94 Nissan 240sx 2 4L Engine Rod Main Bearings w Piston Rings KA24DE | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/91-92-93-94-NISSAN-240SX-2-4L-ENGINE-ROD-MAIN-BEARINGS-w-PISTON-RINGS-KA24DE-/140688093626?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A1994|Make%3ANissan|Model%3A240SX|Submo del%3ASE|Engine+-+Liter_Display%3A2.4L&hash=item20c1a9f1ba&vxp=mtr) are $70 for the main and rod, PLUS NPR rings. Only comes in standard size, maybe that's why?

[Kingtal0n]

Why not buy a used 1997 KA engine with 150,000 miles for $400 and run it up to 250,000 miles as it sits? Thats at least 5 years of good driving for a $400 engine.

[daily missile]

well. got some bad news for ya...

the valve stem seals oreillys had originally sold me didnt fit properly and were full rubber opposed to the metal cap. anyways, just keep blowing oil through the seals. so i had to pull the cams out and get a special tool to remove valve springs while head is still attached. after doing that all day yesterday, it smoke a little. figured it was remaining oil in the exhaust. started it today, and im most definitely sure its the headgasket. so im actually pretty pissed about all of this.

not sure what im gonna do about all this. my friend has a complete ka motor. so either that or im gonna buy a can of that blue devil headgasket repair sealant. but yeah, word of advice. build it right the first time. which i know i built it right, and im not sure why its giving me problems.

[stEEZE nikkAA]

Don't wanna pick up another motor. I want a nice fresh longblock, done by myself.

And damn, sorry to hear that. Do you by any chance know what brand the valve seals are? So I know what to stay away from lol

[daily missile]

this is the clutch kit i got. oreillys sells it (dunno if they still offer it or not. its been on back order at the factory. ive been trying to get mine warrantied since i was swapping motors)
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g36/severepb/car%20projects/IMAG0166_zpscfe50bda.jpg

the valve seal on the far left is oem. its the old one (i had removed that top silver spring). the one in the middle is the ones i originally got from oreillys. do not use these. and the one on the right is the correct ones to use.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g36/severepb/car%20projects/IMAG0723_zpsff8554f3.jpg

what i did was used a 6 point 12 mm socket with extension and carefully tapped it onto where it seats.

[BoostSlideWayz]

looking good! your off to a good start. Im sure youll be happy with your outcome, take your time.

[Kingtal0n]

build it right the first time.

The problem is, many people underestimate what that means. If you are building an engine for the first time, it is likely you will make a mistake. Even professionals that build engines all day for a living make mistakes. Not the kind of thing to attempt when your goal is reliable daily transportation. Let the factory do the work for you if possible.

I understand if you have a rare engine, and you want to freshen it up like new.

But KA24DE are not rare. And the OEM bottom end will last over 250,000 miles. there is no point in attempting a rebuild, unless your primary goal is to learn from the experience.

[JoeyhumlS13]

I'm looking into building up my KA single cam? I need veteran input..?

[stEEZE nikkAA]

The problem is, many people underestimate what that means. If you are building an engine for the first time, it is likely you will make a mistake. Even professionals that build engines all day for a living make mistakes. Not the kind of thing to attempt when your goal is reliable daily transportation. Let the factory do the work for you if possible.

I understand if you have a rare engine, and you want to freshen it up like new.

But KA24DE are not rare. And the OEM bottom end will last over 250,000 miles. there is no point in attempting a rebuild, unless your primary goal is to learn from the experience.

I could care less if it's rare or not. I had an s13 before that I put a ka24de in. Owner of the motor said it was freshly rebuilt. Put the motor in, didn't start. Turns out the cam gears weren't even bolted in. I would rather rebuild my own engine than buy one that I have no idea what the history was.

[NiSilS14]

http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/240sx/91-94/EM.pdf

Read this, when you're done, read it again. Repeat. Memorize it. Continue to refer to it even as you're building.

Fel-pro or OEM for Gaskets
Clevite or OEM for bearings
OEM for timing chain, at least the tensioners and guides
OEM on pistons unless you're planning on a turbo then CP, Supertech, Arias, etc
Same for the rings.

[Kingtal0n]

I could care less if it's rare or not. I had an s13 before that I put a ka24de in. Owner of the motor said it was freshly rebuilt. Put the motor in, didn't start. Turns out the cam gears weren't even bolted in. I would rather rebuild my own engine than buy one that I have no idea what the history was.

for the price of a rebuild you could buy 3-4 high mileage KA engines and run them all into the ground and go farther than a single rebuilt KA will get you.

[stEEZE nikkAA]

http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/240sx/91-94/EM.pdf

Read this, when you're done, read it again. Repeat. Memorize it. Continue to refer to it even as you're building.

Fel-pro or OEM for Gaskets
Clevite or OEM for bearings
OEM for timing chain, at least the tensioners and guides
OEM on pistons unless you're planning on a turbo then CP, Supertech, Arias, etc
Same for the rings.

Thank you very much, I definitely will.

for the price of a rebuild you could buy 3-4 high mileage KA engines and run them all into the ground and go farther than a single rebuilt KA will get you.

1. You're rebuilding wrong.
2. Why do the work of a swap 4 times?
3. I calculated the rebuild, and it's around $500. Last time I checked, KA's in the midwest don't go for $100 a pop.

I don't wanna deal with sourcing out several motors. I want a fresh, rebuilt motor.

[daily missile]

ohh, and i realized the problem of my build.

when i flipped my other bock over that was in the garage, i notice 2 circular pin like things on them. theyre called kingpins and they let water flow through like a jet between the head and the block. they insert into the block and the head fits snug on them. well it hit me when i saw them because IIRC, the block i built didnt have those installed. i didnt even think about it because i didnt have the 2 blocks side by side to compare. so thats why i am having the headgasket issue. soooo, make sure those are on the block.

[dawagarage]

kingpins or dowels?

[Frank_Jaeger]

for the price of a rebuild you could buy 3-4 high mileage KA engines and run them all into the ground and go farther than a single rebuilt KA will get you.
What are you smoking?

[stEEZE nikkAA]

Apparently something really good for him to make that statement.

[daily missile]

kingpins or dowels?

kingpins. where the coolant flows through