The CWP Thread.

[onehundredoctane]

(For those that clicked this thread not knowing what CWP means, it's Concealed Weapons Permit.)

Yes there is already a designated gun thread. But what about those of us that don't just "own guns"? What about those of us that legally conceal carry? So here it is, maybe the mods see fit to close this thread, but if that's the case then I'll have no hard feelings.

The purpose of this thread is to get you guys talking, I don't want this to turn into another picture thread, this should be more of a discussion. Here are the main things I'm interested in from you guys, I'll answer the questions I'm asking too, just so you guys know a little bit about me. If you have questions, need advice, etc, please feel free to post up.



-What factors made you get your cwp?

This is kind of a long story, but bear with me. It was 2008, I got a phone call at 5 p.m. on a Friday and found out that an Uncle of mine had passed away, the funeral was to be in Mississippi, and I was living in South Carolina at the time. I met up with my parents to drive down together taking turns driving thru the night. Around 3 a.m. I was at the wheel and it was time for a gas stop, I had no clue where we were, and just hopped off the interstate when I saw a gas station that was well lit. While pumping gas I was apporached by a man who started off by saying "I see those Carolina plates, you ain't from around here. I got something I wanna sale ya." I replied "No thanks." Then he stepped in closer and says "Naw buddy, you need this. . " The guy was a little bit bigger than me, but I just leaned up against the car and tried to look at cool headed as possible and replied, "I don't need anything you're selling, thanks anyway.". He got hostile, throwing his hands around while he was talking, and acting irratic and said I was the kind of people that wasn't willing to help the less fortunate, I was what's wrong with the world, blah blah blah, then took another step forward.The whole time this has been going on I was keeping an eye on his right hand which kept going back to his pants pocket. Did he have a knife? A gun? At this point he was less than 2 feet away, even if we were friends this was well within my personal space. My dad stepped out of the car, and tells me we need to find somewhere else to get gas, I replied loud enough that the guy could hear me "No, I'm fine, this guy was just leaving.". The minute I say those words a police officer pulls up on the other side of the gas pump and makes eye contact with the guy, the guy takes off running. The officer sat parked until I finished filling up then gave me a nod. After that night I scheduled my CWP class and after passing the class decided I would never be in a situation again where I wasn't equipped to defend myself, or my family memebers at all cost.


-What factors did you take into consideration when deciding what firearm to purchase for a concealed carry?

This was my first gun purchase, and all I wanted was something small enough to fit in a pocket and not leave a footprint. I picked up a Kel-tec P-3AT, it's a play on words since it's a 380. It works great, never jammed after putting roughly 200 thru it to date. Small enough to put in a pants pocket or coat pocket. I've since picked up a Glock model 22, and while it's not an easily concealed gun, I reserve it for winter time when I have a coat on to cover up the hip hosler. Any time I'm meeting up with someone to either purchase something I found on craigslist, or if I'm going to look at a car to buy and have cash on hand the Glock is within arms reach.

-Do your friends or family know you have your cwp? If so what is their opinion?

Not all of my friends know I have my cwp, but the majority of them do. My parents and sister know also, the funny part is that my mom and sister were against the idea. My mom was convinced I'd get mad and just pull my gun out on somebody and she would be visiting me in jail for the rest of my life. HA! My sister I guess has just never been around guns enough to be comfortable with them. In the years since I got my cwp I've tried to be sensitive to the fact that my mom wasn't comfortable with me owning a gun, and that she isn't comfortable with guns in general. After having my cwp three years my mom mentioned that she and my dad were taking their cwp course soon.


Share your stories, what made you decide to get your cwp?


-Matt

[brad_240sx]

I just got my permit on wednesday. I wanted to carry cause its better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it.

[SochBAT]

I was going to get mine this next weekend, complete with Suppressor license, but I opted to pay for my uncle's instead. I live in Texas now, and I know its better to have and no need it, than to be without.

I paid for my uncle because he's a great guy. He treats me like his son, and I'm forever grateful. The second reason is that I don't have a handgun of my own yet. I've got a home defender and hunting gun, but nothing I could carry out.

I've been eyefucking the WilsonCombat 1911. 45ACP rounds, and able to put a man down in his tracks. If it wasn't for my clothing (skinny/slim jeans), I'd totally opt to carry a Raging Judge.
http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/28gaTaurusRagingJudge2.jpg

[w0nderbr3ad]

I don't see a need to carry one in my environment and in some situations I can see the reason for it, but I also know that there's also a chance that I can get overpowered with my own personal weapon. I'd like to get CWP just in case I go on some of my long distance drives, but don't know the laws in CA.

Recently one of my friends house was broken into and robbed while they weren't home, because they were at a family party and the husband is abroad for work. Sounds like a need for protection since they have 2 kids and 1 on the way. No time like the present to invest in one.

[Sleepiedaze]

unfortunatly i cant carry in comifornia. but i still carry at all times and dont advertise it.

[Matej]

Is it legal to carry a sheathed sword around? I want to wear a rapier. Or at least a really cool dagger.

[TougeSR20Kid]

Damn all of yous!!! Here in the DPRK(alifornia) they no allow it in many counties and even then they are like next to impossible to get... But on a side note I can open carry my AR for days as long as I'm on my property

[onehundredoctane]

Damn all of yous!!! Here in the DPRK(alifornia) they no allow it in many counties and even then they are like next to impossible to get... But on a side note I can open carry my AR for days as long as I'm on my property

THIS GUY! Speaking of AR's, (yeah I know I said I wanted this to be a discussion and not another pic thread, but I'm posting pics, sue me). . . this was what I took to the firing range today after work.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/543041_10150767260435379_502775378_11815718_152049 4904_n.jpg

It's pretty easy to get an concealed permit here, as long as you have a clean record at least. I'm sure laws are different as far as where you can or can't carry in each state. Having my cwp formerly in SC and now in NC, I can say the laws are pretty much the same. One difference I have found is that in NC the only "government" property you are allowed to concealed carry on is state parks.

[speedgod^s13]

Hawaii sucks. Can't conceal carry, at all.

[SochBAT]

THIS GUY! Speaking of AR's, (yeah I know I said I wanted this to be a discussion and not another pic thread, but I'm posting pics, sue me). . . this was what I took to the firing range today after work.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/543041_10150767260435379_502775378_11815718_152049 4904_n.jpg

I've got that exact same step! AK and AR15. I opted for the Nikon scope and a 30 round banana with three point sling. My uncle's AR has the Streamlight + Laser on it. Those things are accurate as shit.

[onehundredoctane]

Hawaii sucks. Can't conceal carry, at all.

The UBER fail.

[theicecreamdan]

I haven't applied for one yet.
I probably won't be approved since San Diego doesn't really give them to average citizens.

If you can't legally carry in "comifornia" you can probably blame it on your county sheriff. There are a lot of counties that follow California's law and provide licenses to applicants.

Its not a good idea to carry illegally, and you're giving up a lot your defense if you haven't even applied for the license.

[TougeSR20Kid]

If you can't legally carry in "comifornia" you can probably blame it on your county sheriff. There are a lot of counties that follow California's law and provide licenses to applicants.

Exactly... It's up to the sheriff of that county as to whether or not to allow concealed carry, after all isnt he the one who signs off on ur permit? Plus i heard the application process is pretty rigid and there are limited as in most ppl who apply don't get them

Btw open carry on my property isn't what i realized it sounds like to you guys readin that first post. I live in the middle of nowhere on a lot of land. Hah it's not like I'm standing on my balcony watching cars drive by with a loaded AR. It's more to protect myself and my dog and horses from whatever or whomever may be lurking (mountain lions, bears, and tweakers)

[DS562]

this is true. the Sheriff is the one who signs your private pesons CWP. which is why i want to GTFO of LA because theres no way in hell i can get one until im an officer which probably wont be until im 24-26. i've had a loaded gun pointed at my forehead 2 years ago and lets just say i took a gamble i would never like to make again. leaving your life completely up to somebody elses wim is a shitty feeling.

[onehundredoctane]

Wow, I knew it was difficult to get a cwp in certain states, but had no idea it was "nearly impossible". That almost defeats the purpose of having a cwp program! Hate to hear that guys!

[biggie]

I laughed when I saw you posted this in a forum that most members are in nazifornia. And then there's new york where you can't have certain pocket knives, much less a gun.

[onehundredoctane]

I laughed when I saw you posted this in a forum that most members are in nazifornia. And then there's new york where you can't have certain pocket knives, much less a gun.

Yeah, yeah, but there are other states than New York & Califailnia. I would like to hear from people that do carry and have actually found themselves in a situation where they either came close to having to defend themselves or others.

[TougeSR20Kid]

Yeah straight up Cali is bullshit when it comes to its rules and regulations, its even more rediculous when you look at every state it borders and their laws... NV you can buy fully auto ar15s and conceal carry is easier, OR also has lax gun laws, and I think we all know about AZs gun laws lol... Not to mention its like 100 times easier to have a modded car in those states. Fuckin Cali being a buzz kill 24/7

[theicecreamdan]

Yeah straight up Cali is bullshit when it comes to its rules and regulations, its even more rediculous when you look at every state it borders and their laws... NV you can buy fully auto ar15s and conceal carry is easier, OR also has lax gun laws, and I think we all know about AZs gun laws lol... Not to mention its like 100 times easier to have a modded car in those states. Fuckin Cali being a buzz kill 24/7

California isn't the worst, and most people probably don't know how bad it is in CA, NY, HI etc.

I think its a good thing for people (especially non-enthusiasts) to realize what gun laws are like in a lot of places. So they can realize that the "free" states aren't overflowing with blood like some groups would have you believe.

[TougeSR20Kid]

But New York is only in the city from what I heard... Upstate is pretty open and country and therefore guns are ok? But yeah CA isn't that bad compared to NYC and HI, but compared to the rest of the country it's freaking rediculous, most states allow fully auto guns: the only ones I could find that have laws restricting or prohibiting fully auto assault weapons CA, CO (Denver only), CT, HI, MD, MA (unless you are a firearm instructor), MN, NJ, NY, and WA. Some other states require that you register the gun with a specific law enforcement agency and pass certain criteria but allow citizens to have them nonetheless. As far as open carry... Most states have what is called "shall issue" which means they will issue the permit to those who apply and are accepted if you will. Some states have what's called "may issue" which means its at the discretion of whomever and that person is to decide whether or not to issue permits in their county and the criteria for that county. These are CA, DE, HI, IL, MD, MA, NJ, NY, RI, and VT. But in most states 40 out of the 50 it's a shall-issue meaning its allowed so long as u meet the requirements and have no personal issues that are of concern in other words if you are mentally sane and not a criminal and are of a certain age - ur good

[DS562]

does anybody here subscribe to American Handgunner? in one of last years issues, there was a story about the Gabrielle Giffords attempt in which a passersby was concealing and had helped in the capture of the shooter. its an eye opener. i'll try and find a link

[FU12]

I don't see a need to carry one in my environment and in some situations I can see the reason for it, but I also know that there's also a chance that I can get overpowered with my own personal weapon. I'd like to get CWP just in case I go on some of my long distance drives, but don't know the laws in CA.

Recently one of my friends house was broken into and robbed while they weren't home, because they were at a family party and the husband is abroad for work. Sounds like a need for protection since they have 2 kids and 1 on the way. No time like the present to invest in one.
When you get a CWP in CA, I believe its only for your county, so it might be useless outside of it :confused: , but I'm not completely sure since not many people have them.

[theicecreamdan]

For the most part a CA CCW in California is good for the whole state.

I think (I'm not going to research it, and I might be completely off on this) some really small counties issue licenses with restrictions regarding larger counties.

As far as "may issue" licenses. I'll take may over no issue

[DS562]

Concealed Firearm Carry Permit in California: Information Database (http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/faq.html#f20)

i found this site helpful

[speedgod^s13]

For the most part a CA CCW in California is good for the whole state.

I think (I'm not going to research it, and I might be completely off on this) some really small counties issue licenses with restrictions regarding larger counties.

As far as "may issue" licenses. I'll take may over no issue

Well, it might be "may issue" here in the Aloha state, but I have never heard of one being issued, with a lot of applications. So, it may as well be "no issue".

[onehundredoctane]

I laughed at this.

You must articulate a situation or circumstances whereby the department can determine you have a need, not a desire, to carry a concealed firearm.

So you have to have a reason to want to carry? You're not allowed to conceal carry purely because you want to be able to defend yourself? Further proof that I will never live in California and probably never visit.

This I also is laughable:


What are the costs?

It varies from department to department but the average is about $500.00. Most of the costs are set by statute and as such are non refundable. This fee is for the initial permit. Renewals run about $250 every two years after the original permit is issued


$500, then $250 every 2 years to renew? You gotta be fucking kidding me! That's robbery! You're basically renting the right to be able to protect yourself! I can't remember what how much it cost when I had mine issued in SC a few years back, but it wasn't anywhere near that cost, NOR did it require renewal that frequently, renewal was every 5 years.

More laughs,



What about open carry?

At this time (2010) TBJ does NOT encourage the average person to "open carry."

In order to Open Carry safely and legally, you need to be aware of where you may and where you may not legally carry, the 1,000 feet barrier around school zones, the fact that mostly you may only carry unloaded, the fact that (mostly) magazines must also be openly displayed, and that (mostly) police officers are entitled to stop you to check that your firearm is unloaded (the "mostly"'s are to allow for those unincorporated areas where carrying loaded and openly may be legal). Although many departments have issued guidelines to educate their officers, there is a possibility of encounters with antagonistic officers unaware of the law, who may, until the situation is cleared up, treat you as a criminal.

Even those aware people who actually practice this form of carry in California generally advise that you carry a voice recorder, turned on at the first sign of police officers, that you carefully map the 1,000ft gun-free zone around each school, that, ideally, you have a friend nearby with a video recorder and have available ten to twenty thousand dollars for attorney fees and bail.

There is (2010) pending legislation that, if it becomes law, will make even unloaded open carry (UOC) illegal.


So, not only is it impossible to get a CWP in the great state of California, but you can't open carry either? And IF you do the gun has to be unloaded? What are you gonna tell the guy trying to car jack you? "Can ya give me just a second to put the bullets in the magazine?"

[STL240SXDRIFT]

It is pretty easy to get a CWP here in St. Charles, MO (few miles west of STL). I was thinking about it...but I guess I need to get a smaller handgun as a carry gun. Oh yea...we have hollow-points in all of our guns too.

Sig or something like that...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/SigSauerP239.JPG/300px-SigSauerP239.JPG

[TougeSR20Kid]

Further proof that I will never live in California and probably never visit.

This! Is exactly why I plan on leaving this stupid state... Toooo many fucking rules and regulations. Explain this to me: I live outside city limits, own my own pump, pump my own water directly from a river but still somehow I get a bill from the city every month for water consumption. Why?... Because California :picardfp:

So, not only is it impossible to get a CWP in the great state of California, but you can't open carry either? And IF you do the gun has to be unloaded? What are you gonna tell the guy trying to car jack you? "Can ya give me just a second to put the bullets in the magazine?"

You can have the magazine loaded, just not in the gun. This is why you will see holster setups being sold in CA with multiple separate magazine pouches. But even then open carry is a bad idea because there's a bunch of add ons to the law that stipulate where it's ok and not ok: schools, parks, government buildings, government property / land, within 1000 feet of certain buildings and schools, there's more I just can't remember off the top of my head... Not to mention that if you do open carry on California plan on talking to law enforcement because the avg person doesn't know it's legal and will call the cops.

[Darren]

i think i'll just post pins in my map of all these places that have CWP and not go there... Sounds like everyone's packin'

[DS562]

.....what are you getting at?

[onehundredoctane]

But even then open carry is a bad idea because there's a bunch of add ons to the law that stipulate where it's ok and not ok: schools, parks, government buildings, government property / land, within 1000 feet of certain buildings and schools, there's more I just can't remember off the top of my head... Not to mention that if you do open carry on California plan on talking to law enforcement because the avg person doesn't know it's legal and will call the cops.

The same goes for carrying with a cwp, all the places you listed are also off limits to anyone carrying concealed. The only government property that allows concealment here in NC and SC are public rest stops to my knowledge.

i think i'll just post pins in my map of all these places that have CWP and not go there... Sounds like everyone's packin'

People with cwp's are not the enemy. In fact in NC there is even a law that states (and I'm paraphrasing), if I witness you being attacked by someone and I believe your life is in danger and that you are unable to defend yourself, I am allowed to use deadly force to protect you. Would I personally defend a stranger? Honestly it would depend on the situation.

Being a cwp holder means I am LEGALLY concealing a weapon and have been given permission by the state to do so. Before applying for the permit I had to attend an 8 hour concealment class which went over all the laws governing concealment, and included time at the firing range where X% of my bullets had to hit the target. (I think it had to be 70% to pass, but I don't recall. I shot 100%.) Before the permit was issued I was also finger printed and a copy of my prints are on file with the local sheriffs office of the county I live in and another copy of file with the local FBI office. This makes me traceable to any prints found on a weapon or bullet casings.

Someone with a CWP isn't going out and looking for trouble, it isn't a free pass to shoot anyone for any reason. NC has a law that states (again paraphrasing) if I am the instigator of an argument or fight and the person I'm fighting with pulls a knife or gun or begins to over power me, I am NOT allowed to use my weapon to defuse the situation. If the instigator in that situation were to use deadly force to end the scuffle they would be charged with murder and NOT self defence. To summarize this last paragraph I'll just simply say, you can't start the fight and end it to.

The people with the permits aren't the ones you need to worry about. It's the people that conceal without it that are the problem.

[TougeSR20Kid]

The people with the permits aren't the ones you need to worry about. It's the people that conceal without it that are the problem.

Exactly, this plus the bit about having ppl with CCWs around it would almost seem like it would be a little safer in those states and counties because after all its a crime deterrent, muggers and assailants would be a little more hesitant if they thought there might be a possibility ur strapped. Also safer cus stranger or passer-by would be able to help you if you are in some real shit (in states like SC)... That's just the way I look at it, I could be wrong, but speaking from experience I live in a rural area where a lot of ppl have guns for recreation and to defend their property and it seems to be an effective deterrent

[theicecreamdan]

i think i'll just post pins in my map of all these places that have CWP and not go there... Sounds like everyone's packin'

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Rtc.gif


So you have to have a reason to want to carry? You're not allowed to conceal carry purely because you want to be able to defend yourself? Further proof that I will never live in California and probably never visit.

So, not only is it impossible to get a CWP in the great state of California, but you can't open carry either? And IF you do the gun has to be unloaded? What are you gonna tell the guy trying to car jack you? "Can ya give me just a second to put the bullets in the magazine?"

There are counties that accept "self defense" as a reason. And its not impossible to get the permit in the state.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f337/clownburner/OCCCWS/ca_ccw_map-big.png

[TougeSR20Kid]

That's an old map lol it looks a lot different now

[FU12]

That's an old map lol it looks a lot different now

What would one search for to find a newer map?

[TougeSR20Kid]

What would one search for to find a newer map?

Google ccw in us 20012 or something I know Wikipedia has a map and it changed through the years... Bear in mind I'm on my phone and can't tell if Dan posted that one or not... It only shows 1986 on tapatalk, which I just realized may be why it's only showing 1986, but I know it's definitely changed since 86 I think the most recent change was 2010 but don't quote me on it...... With that being said like 95% of this info is available on CalGuns if you really wanna look it up

[theicecreamdan]

It is the gif from the wikipedia page.

[TougeSR20Kid]

Ah for sure well as previously mentioned can't see it on my phone my bad

[onehundredoctane]

So it's not California as a state that won't allow average citizens to get a cwp, but actually the individual counties? That's the weirdest thing. If you have a cwp from lets say San Bernadino, can you carry into Los Angeles county?

Something I hadn't mentioned yet is that there is reciprocity with other states in some cases. For instance the following states will recognize my NC cwp:

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming.

[FU12]

I doubt if we can carry in LA, unless we're military or LEO. Its safe to say that you can only carry in your home, on your property, friends property or at a gun range. Where I live, in Long Beach, They have only issued one carry permit and it was issued 4 or 5 years ago.

[Darren]

.....what are you getting at?

Well... I'm from Canada, and here, if you're carrying a gun on the street, you're either Police or doing something wrong... so it's kind of scary to think that the average citizen is allowed to carry... Here, we have very strict laws around how you can carry a gun, it cannot be concealed, and it has to be carried separate from the ammunition... etc.

....People with cwp's are not the enemy. In fact in NC there is even a law that states (and I'm paraphrasing), if I witness you being attacked by someone and I believe your life is in danger and that you are unable to defend yourself, I am allowed to use deadly force to protect you....

Someone with a CWP isn't going out and looking for trouble, it isn't a free pass to shoot anyone for any reason.... To summarize this last paragraph I'll just simply say, you can't start the fight and end it to.

The people with the permits aren't the ones you need to worry about. It's the people that conceal without it that are the problem.


Thanks for clearing that up, i was pretty sure they weren't just giving them out to everyone willy-nilly like... but that makes me feel a little better if i go to the states.

So what you're saying is that it's like Martial Arts.. you're trained, and by being trained you are being held to a higher standard, and expected to use it only when absolutely necessary.

If only everyone thought that way :D

[onehundredoctane]

So what you're saying is that it's like Martial Arts.. you're trained, and by being trained you are being held to a higher standard, and expected to use it only when absolutely necessary.

If only everyone thought that way :D


Something like that. But it is up to the permit holder to determine what the situation calls for.

The instructor of my first cwp class explained that if he didn't feel comfortable with you having a firearm in his class, then he didn't feel comfortable with you having it concealed outside of class either. He turned one student away after the first two hours of class and refunded the students money. The guy was a little off and may have had some mental issues, but the instructor was very respectful to him and did not make it a big deal or mention it in front of the class to embarass him.

On a side note, my dad, my sisters boyfriend, my friend Josh and myself are going to the firing range Sunday. To be a good shot you have to stay in practice, right? Last time I managed my three best shots one handed, one of those was bulls eye too! I'll have to get a pic of my dads stainless steel Ruger 357 to post up, I love that gun! Very Rick Grimes (the walking dead), just in the sense that it's a stainless revolver and a long barrel. Yes I know the gun he carries on the show isn't a Ruger.

[biggie]

Well... I'm from Canada, and here, if you're carrying a gun on the street, you're either Police or doing something wrong... so it's kind of scary to think that the average citizen is allowed to carry... Here, we have very strict laws around how you can carry a gun, it cannot be concealed, and it has to be carried separate from the ammunition... etc.
As a Southern US guy that scares me. What good is a gun if it isn't loaded?

But a lot of places here, before concealed permits were considered, could open carry (in a holster that was visable). Was nothing weird to see everyone working in small gas stations/stores growing up having a pistol on their side.

[onehundredoctane]

As a Southern US guy that scares me. What good is a gun if it isn't loaded?

But a lot of places here, before concealed permits were considered, could open carry (in a holster that was visable). Was nothing weird to see everyone working in small gas stations/stores growing up having a pistol on their side.

Open carrying is a little more popular in the rural areas, seems like everytime I go to visit my parents I see at least one person carrying. To me it's not that big of a deal, I'm happy to know someone else is carrying, but I personally don't want to display it to everyone around me.

[biggie]

Open carrying is a little more popular in the rural areas, seems like everytime I go to visit my parents I see at least one person carrying. To me it's not that big of a deal, I'm happy to know someone else is carrying, but I personally don't want to display it to everyone around me.
The town I grew up in still doesn't have a red light. So yeah, its a bit rural.

[VNG704]

i think i'll just post pins in my map of all these places that have CWP and not go there... Sounds like everyone's packin'

Iirc, most states are conceal carry. Wi, just ok'd it recently. Got my permit and picked up a pocket 9mm by ruger. :)

Edit, oh you're from Canada.

[theicecreamdan]

So it's not California as a state that won't allow average citizens to get a cwp, but actually the individual counties? That's the weirdest thing. If you have a cwp from lets say San Bernadino, can you carry into Los Angeles county?



A CCW from San Bernardino county should be good in Los Angeles county.

Depending on where you get it, there could be some restrictions printed on your permit, which might play into whether its good in LA or not.

[sky53line]

To follow on top of "people with cwp's not being the enemy"

Gun carrying man ends stabbing spree at Salt Lake grocery store - ABC4.com - Salt Lake City, Utah News (http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/story/conceal-and-carry-stabbing-salt-lake-city-smiths/NDNrL1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx)

SALT LAKE CITY (ABC 4 News) - A citizen with a gun stopped a knife wielding man as he began stabbing people Thursday evening at the downtown Salt Lake City Smith's store.

Police say the suspect purchased a knife inside the store and then turned it into a weapon. Smith's employee Dorothy Espinoza says, "He pulled it out and stood outside the Smiths in the foyer. And just started stabbing people and yelling you killed my people. You killed my people."

Espinoza says, the knife wielding man seriously injured two people. "There is blood all over. One got stabbed in the stomach and got stabbed in the head and held his hands and got stabbed all over the arms."

Then, before the suspect could find another victim - a citizen with a gun stopped the madness. "A guy pulled gun on him and told him to drop his weapon or he would shoot him. So, he dropped his weapon and the people from Smith's grabbed him."

By the time officers arrived the suspect had been subdued by employees and shoppers. Police had high praise for gun carrying man who ended the hysteria. Lt. Brian Purvis said, "This was a volatile situation that could have gotten worse. We can only assume from what we saw it could have gotten worse. He was definitely in the right place at the right time."

Dozens of other shoppers, who too could have become victims, are also thankful for the gun carrying man. And many, like Danylle Julian, are still in shock from the experience. "Scary actually. Really scary. Five minutes before I walk out to my car. It could have been me."

Police say right now they have no idea what caused the suspect to go on the dangerous rampage. (We will update as soon as we learn new information.)

So far, police have not released the names of the suspect, the victims or the man who pulled the gun.

[onehundredoctane]

^I love hearing stories like that, it really shows you that people can make a difference and even defend others.

[DS562]

I personally don't want to display it to everyone around me.


i would want to conceal rather than open carry. i guess its the logic that if im in a liquor store and a guy walks in to rob the place while my back is turned, he's going to eliminate the biggest threat first. which will be me because he saw the .45 on my hip. i'll never have a chance. if i conceal, he wont know im packin too and will assume im a negligible threat.

[FU12]

^I love hearing stories like that, it really shows you that people can make a difference and even defend others.
Shows that just because someone is carrying doesn't mean they have to shoot to de-escalate the situation.

[DS562]

The Tucson Atrocity: Joe Zamudio’s Story | American Handgunner (http://www.americanhandgunner.com/the-tucson-atrocity-joe-zamudios-story/)

there we go. if tl;dr, sit your ass down and read it.

[SochBAT]

I went to the gun range this weekend and went through what seemed like thousands of rounds.

H&K 9mm Compact
Springfield Armory XD-40
Wilson Combat 1911.

The accuracy on that H&K was something I hated. At 10 yards, my spread was basketball sized at best.
The XD faired a lot better for me. Grouping was roughly the size of a baseball.
The WC 1911 was fucking amazing as shit. Grouping was golf ball sized. Straight up tight butthole.

There is a HUGE difference in gun builds which I saw first hand. Factory-line guns are cheaper for a reason. There was a fair amount of play on the slide and fitment could've been better, but for 300 bucks, you can't really complain.

[brad_240sx]

To follow on top of "people with cwp's not being the enemy"

Gun carrying man ends stabbing spree at Salt Lake grocery store - ABC4.com - Salt Lake City, Utah News (http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/story/conceal-and-carry-stabbing-salt-lake-city-smiths/NDNrL1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx)

I was just going to share this

[onehundredoctane]

i would want to conceal rather than open carry. i guess its the logic that if im in a liquor store and a guy walks in to rob the place while my back is turned, he's going to eliminate the biggest threat first. which will be me because he saw the .45 on my hip. i'll never have a chance. if i conceal, he wont know im packin too and will assume im a negligible threat.

Exactly. This is why I choose not to open carry. I'm carrying the gun for my protection and I'm the only one that needs to know it's there, and you couldn't be more right, open carrying makes you a target. A felon can't purchase a gun legally, so what's the easiest, cheapest way to acquire one. . .? You guessed it.


The Tucson Atrocity: Joe Zamudio’s Story | American Handgunner (http://www.americanhandgunner.com/the-tucson-atrocity-joe-zamudios-story/)

there we go. if tl;dr, sit your ass down and read it.


Thanks for posting that, I took the time to "sit my ass down and read it". Here is one of the biggest problems with what I read:

Arizona already lets people carry concealed weaponswithout requiring permits (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/11/us/11guns.html).

States that offer concealment permits require training and the permit holder to understand the laws governing use of the weapon and the "use of deadly force". It doesn't simply give you the right to be a gun slingin cowboy and save the day.

Additionally, this guys problem is that he rushed in looking for the fight. He wasn't in the right place at the right time and just happened to be concealing, he wasn't trying to defend himself, family or friends, he didn't know the conditions or that someone had already taken the gun from the attacker. He ran in looking to play hero, and almost killed the actual hero who had taken the gun from the attacker. If you hear gun shots the first thing you DON'T do is take off running in that direction to see where they came from. The purpose of a cwp is to allow the public to defend themselves, friends and family against attackers and would be criminals.

Prime example,(true story) a friend I grew up with was leaving a pizza place with his girlfriend. They were the last customers of the night so the staff locked the door behind him when he and his girlfriend left. They got half way to their car when a guy walked up asking for a cig, he told the guy he didn't smoke, then the guy asked for a lighter, he again told the man he didn't smoke and therefore had no lighter. The guy pulled a knife and demanded my friends wallet, his girlfriends purse and her jewelery. There is no heroic end to this story as my friend didn't own a gun at the time. Luckily no one was injured or stabbed, but at that moment there is no worse feeling than being unprepared. Of course the police didn't catch the guy, my friend had thru the process of getting another drivers lisence, credit cards, etc, not to mention what his girlfriend had to give up. Someone can point out that loosing your wallet and some of your girls jewelery is a small price to pay to live to tell about it, but I'm not one of those people. I'm not going to tell you to do what the bad man says and he'll go away. Giving in to such only enables that person to do it again. I work for the money that's in my pockets unlike the coward that steals from an honest, hard working citizen that actually contributes to society. Let that person try to take my hard earned money from my pocket and it'll be their last time.

The XD faired a lot better for me. Grouping was roughly the size of a baseball.

I qualified with an XD9 on my first cwp test, it was the first time firing it and I loved it. Looking at a XD40 for a new concealment after firing one this weekend.

Got a late birthday gift from my sister over the weekend, 100 rounds of 0.40 hollow points. Does my sister know me, or what?

[C*bass]

Well... I'm from Canada, and here, if you're carrying a gun on the street, you're either Police or doing something wrong... so it's kind of scary to think that the average citizen is allowed to carry... Here, we have very strict laws around how you can carry a gun, it cannot be concealed, and it has to be carried separate from the ammunition... etc.


Technically restricted guns(pistols,ar15s, all the fun stuff) have to be concealed for transportation. In a locked opaque case. And can only be transported straight from your home to an approved shooting range, which you need a piece of paper from the government to say its alright to do.

As for it being scary that average citizens are allowed to carry. I would say its far more scary that the only people here that are carrying are criminals and cops. Don't even get me started on our self defence laws. You'll likely face less time for robbing someone at knifepoint than you would face for defending yourself using a gun.

[SochBAT]

Got a late birthday gift from my sister over the weekend, 100 rounds of 0.40 hollow points. Does my sister know me, or what?

Once you start reloading, you'll never (at least almost never) got back to buying off the shelf rounds. It's a whole new hobby.

[HalveBlue]

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/

OpenCarry.org - A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost! (http://opencarry.org/maps.html)

I found both of the above sites to be very useful.

I received my CCP in Utah in 2005. A lieutenant in my unit had arranged to conduct a CCP class for anyone that was interested. The instructor was an SF veteran from 19th Group. Very competent and informative.

My permit has since expired. Unfortunately I live overseas right now in a place where owning a gun, much less carrying one concealed, is next to impossible.

[bb4_96]

I live in illinois :( Only way I can carry is through a sketchy loophole in the wording of the transportation legislation.

[onehundredoctane]

I live in illinois :( Only way I can carry is through a sketchy loophole in the wording of the transportation legislation.

More details. . .

[bb4_96]

Something along the lines that you can transport an unloaded weapon in a sealed container along with ammunition in the same container. So technically if you had a small firearm in any type of sealed container you would be good. 6 seconds from protection is what they are calling it.

[onehundredoctane]

6 seconds from protection is what they are calling it.

I would've loved to hear whatever politician came up with that one try to convince me that I'm safe as long as I have an loaded gun near by.

[bb4_96]

I'm not even sure if the politicians know the loophole exists. But there have been two cases tried on the matter that won. And the gun has to be unloaded. Thats the best illinois will ever do with Chicago running the state.

[onehundredoctane]

Obviously we have all heard about the Colorado shooting. It's a tragedy. One of the biggest problems with having a CWP is being told "No, you can't conceal carry there.", that is exactly the case with places that charge admission to enter. One or two people with a concealment permit could've put an end to the threat. Would they have been going up against a one man army? Undoubtedly. But it would've helped save lives.

What more could be done to keep guns from getting in the wrong hands? It depends on who you ask.

One this that isn't helping keep guns from the wrong hands is a news article by a local news station. They recently posted a url on their page to a database of personal information (mainly street names, but not addresses) of North Carolina CWP holders. A list of people who LEGALLY own firearms, LEGALLY conceal carry, and have no criminal history, and only want the right to protect themselves and their loved ones. A right the victims of Colorado were denied due to an outdated law.

In doing so this news station is enabling criminals. The house numbers being withheld from the database does very little to help their wrong doing, a street with only a couple of houses on it would make it easy for a criminal to plunder for a firearm while the resident is at work.

People who are legally carrying concealed are doing so souly to keep themselves safe, that safety is being compromised by these fools that think they are doing the world a favor by posting this information.

I refuse to post the link to the news stations web site, I'm not giving them the satisfaction of having another 1,000 hits to the page. Instead I will post a link to the petition to take down the link from the site.

Petition | WRAL stop endangering Domestic Violence Victims and Rape Victims and others with handgun permits | Change.org (http://www.change.org/petitions/wral-stop-endangering-domestic-violence-victims-and-rape-victims-and-others-with-handgun-permits)