krokodil drug

[hulkster_s13]

anybody seen this shit? more addictive than heroin with the bonus of eating your flesh.
http://youtu.be/CbcEE0db8Xo

dont know how to post the player sorry

[driftsilvias13]

Why the fuck am i watching this. Shit is disgusting!

[towlie]

Now, where do I buy this?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/krokodil-the-drug-that-eats-junkies-2300787.html

[altalti]

That is some crazy stuff right there. Guess it makes it easier for them to go quickly since there usually stealing to buy drugs anyway.

[Okinawandrifter87]

Idk how I just watched that without barfing all over the carpet.

[Otto347]

Why are they using a finger saw to cut the bone?

[Daniel.]

I just read a few articles on this. The shit literally makes you fucking rot to death.

"if you miss a vein, you immediately get an abscess."

Hideous.

[ayuaddict]

Just read through the article, that is crazy.

[icedsole]

hahh man this has been the hot topic lately around here.

i think life expectancy after starting is like 1 year?

in russian drug smokes you!

[ILoveMyRHS13]

Holy FUCK. I didn't watch the video, simply because I knew I couldn't. That article is gnarly enough. D:

[1on1]

This is some serious shit.

[R Drifter]

yeah this shit is terrible, i first saw this video a while back on theync.com, warning...DO NOT GO ON THAT WEBSITE IF YOU HAVE A WEAK STOMACH!

[BongateerZ32]

in russian drug smokes you!

literally made me lol

[tricky_ab]

I had seen this posted on another forum I visit a while ago. If you don't have an iron stomach, I'd skip watching ANYTHING to do with this drug.

The average user of krokodil, a dirty cousin of morphine that is spreading like a virus among Russian youth, does not live longer than two or three years, and the few who manage to quit usually come away disfigured.
...

The active component is codeine, a widely sold over-the-counter painkiller that is not toxic on its own. But to produce krokodil, whose medical name is desomorphine, addicts mix it with ingredients including gasoline, paint thinner, hydrochloric acid, iodine and red phosphorous, which they scrape from the striking pads on matchboxes. In 2010, between a few hundred thousand and a million people, according to various official estimates, were injecting the resulting substance into their veins in Russia, so far the only country in the world to see the drug grow into an epidemic.
...
The "rotting" explains the drug's nickname. At the injection site, which can be anywhere from the feet to the forehead, the addict's skin becomes greenish and scaly, like a crocodile's, as blood vessels burst and the surrounding tissue dies. Gangrene and amputations are a common result, while porous bone tissue, especially in the lower jaw, often starts to dissipate, eaten up by the drug's acidity.
Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2078355,00.html?xid=rss-fullworld-yahoo)


Russia has more heroin users than any other country in the world – up to two million, according to unofficial estimates. For most, their lot is a life of crime, stints in prison, probable contraction of HIV and hepatitis C, and an early death. As efforts to stem the flow of Afghan heroin into Russia bring some limited success, and the street price of the drug goes up, for those addicts who can't afford their next hit, an even more terrifying spectre has raised its head.

The home-made drug that Oleg and Sasha inject is known as krokodil, or "crocodile". It is desomorphine, a synthetic opiate many times more powerful than heroin that is created from a complex chain of mixing and chemical reactions, which the addicts perform from memory several times a day. While heroin costs from £20 to £60 per dose, desomorphine can be "cooked" from codeine-based headache pills that cost £2 per pack, and other household ingredients available cheaply from the markets.

It is a drug for the poor, and its effects are horrific. It was given its reptilian name because its poisonous ingredients quickly turn the skin scaly. Worse follows. Oleg and Sasha have not been using for long, but Oleg has rotting sores on the back of his neck.

"If you miss the vein, that's an abscess straight away," says Sasha. Essentially, they are injecting poison directly into their flesh. One of their friends, in a neighbouring apartment block, is further down the line.

"She won't go to hospital, she just keeps injecting. Her flesh is falling off and she can hardly move anymore," says Sasha. Photographs of late-stage krokodil addicts are disturbing in the extreme. Flesh goes grey and peels away to leave bones exposed. People literally rot to death.

Russian heroin addicts first discovered how to make krokodil around four years ago, and there has been a steady rise in consumption, with a sudden peak in recent months. "Over the past five years, sales of codeine-based tablets have grown by dozens of times," says Viktor Ivanov, the head of Russia's Drug Control Agency. "It's pretty obvious that it's not because everyone has suddenly developed headaches."

Heroin addiction kills 30,000 people per year in Russia – a third of global deaths from the drug – but now there is the added problem of krokodil. Mr Ivanov recalled a recent visit to a drug-treatment centre in Western Siberia. "They told me that two years ago almost all their drug users used heroin," said the drugs tsar. "Now, more than half of them are on desomorphine."

He estimates that overall, around 5 per cent of Russian drug users are on krokodil and other home-made drugs, which works out at about 100,000 people. It's a huge, hidden epidemic – worse in the really isolated parts of Russia where supplies of heroin are patchy – but palpable even in cities such as Tver.

The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/krokodil-the-drug-that-eats-junkies-2300787.html)

You've been warned...Not for the faint of heart:

Disturbing video of users (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xc91zz_koaksil_shortfilms)

[towlie]

Honestly I doubt this would ever become a problem here (US), I don't think people would ever become desperate enough.. Well, I could be wrong because if someone is already addicted to heroin they obviously aren't thinking rationally

Doubt it would ever become a "club drug" lol

[Matej]

This drug should be distributed among all addicts to get rid of them quicker.

[tricky_ab]

Doubt it would ever become a "club drug" lol

Nah it will never be a designer drug of sorts.

Let's look at some of the contents...

including gasoline, paint thinner, hydrochloric acid, iodine and red phosphorous

[1on1]

This drug should be distributed among all addicts to get rid of them quicker.

Should be America's anti-drug to addicts.

[nomoremk2]

Dear god those videos were horrifying. I wonder how long it actually takes for these people to decay like that. I can't imagine having openly exposed bone like that and being ok with it. I guess at that point it becomes depression and no self worth that drives the continued use. Those are the probably the reasons they started anyways. It was pretty disturbing reading the article and them mentioning their friend. They see end result and continue to use. At the point that you can nolonger move and have exposed bone matter and numerous abcesses you may aswell just put a gun to your head.

[ZilviaKid]

kZwhNFOn4ik

[S14DB]

Desomorphine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desomorphine)

Desomorphine (Dihydrodesoxymorphine, Permonid, also known as Krokodil) is an opiate analogue invented in 1932 in the United States

Dang, we could have won the war with this stuff!

I really think it's from the iodine and red phosphorus they use to make it cause they can't get Thionyl chloride. I guess this can be compared to the meth epidemic here. All the nasty by-chemicals used to make it is what kills you not the main drug.

[CrimsonRockett]

I've seen a lot worse (gore wise), hence the reason why the two videos in this thread weren't that bad (at all) to watch.

The comments in the first video made me laugh. "WTF don't they have a dremel or some shit?!"

This drug should be distributed among all addicts to get rid of them quicker.

Part of me wants to agree to this, but at the same time I can't say all addicts deserve this.

Some of them just made a stupid decision and it unfortunately progressed to an addiction. The whole "trying it once won't hurt me" mentality doesn't apply to everyone. Some have more will power than others.

All they need is a second chance.

Then again, there are absolutely horrible people out there that truly do deserve this (convicts going in and out of prison, murderers, rapists, drug addicts that are very aware of what they're doing and still continue to do so like the people in these videos, etc).

[towlie]

If they tried it then it's their own fault they got addicted

Cause I highly doubt someone put a gun to a dudes head and said "smoke this shit"

Addicts = addicts = worthless to society

[KiLLeR2001]

Terrible. For all we know, Heroin dealers could be lying to people telling them its a new form of Heroin, they love it so much they keep shooting it not realizing their body decaying, and by then its too late. Dealer got his money and now the user is dead. Move onto the next chump.

[nomoremk2]

Well from what the article described it's almost pointless to try and withdrawal. You're in so much excruciating pain that you'd need morphine just to keep from passing out it says. From looking at what's left of those people, I don't doubt that for a second.

[lflkajfj12123]

Bobobo, wont you stop that crap? Smoking that bomb makes you crazy.
But everythings crazy in the world today,
so you, you might as well smoke it anyway.

[1on1]

nvm.......

[TheWolf]

might have seen this without knowing it.. seen someone come in for a "spider bite" the other day that got "infected".. she spent 6 weeks getting treatment on my floor..
No one was really sure if it was a spider bite but there were 3 other injection sites right next to the "bite"... she's kinda a known frequent flyer IV drug user and the bite eventually became a 10"x3" wound.

[BURSTspeed]

drugs are bad kiddies...thats sooo grosss

[w0nderbr3ad]

Having exposed bone is a good sign your vitals are beyond fucked. If I was ever at that point I would just ask them to put me down like a dog. All the psychological damage of seeing my own limbs just breaking down and falling apart would just put me under. But I've never seen a bone so clean before, must be those fuel chemicals.

[di-devol]

This is how zombies are made.


I'm telling ya.

[chuki.s13.coupe.]

^ let's hope.

[ericcastro]

If they tried it then it's their own fault they got addicted

Cause I highly doubt someone put a gun to a dudes head and said "smoke this shit"

Addicts = addicts = worthless to society

you are a fucking idiot.


....No need to explain why.

[towlie]

What, are addicts meaningful, contributing members to society? ..I don't think so.

I could be wrong though... I am, after all, a fucking idiot :rofl:

[ronmcdon]

Not to generalize all drug users, but you have got to be either extremely masochistic, suicidal, or really stupid to do that crocodile drug today.
The drug's effects have been documented comprehensively, and the physiological are probably the most gruesome and fatal.
Would-be users know well enough what they're getting into.

Back to the video, what was most shocking was the procedure.
Looks really primitive chopping off the dude's bones & throwing that mess in the trash.
I wonder if he still felt anything, I would imagine so with all the nerves on the bone.
Could have knocked him out, but maybe that's just the norm in Russia.

[fckillerbee]

is it bad that I think they should distribute this in the local jail system. Might weed out the "criminals". Save us some money on taxes too. We can use that to donate more money to our ever growing economic uprising.

[revcyanide]

is it bad that I think they should distribute this in the local jail system. Might weed out the "criminals". Save us some money on taxes too. We can use that to donate more money to our ever growing economic uprising.

and spend a fortune of our tax paying dollars on their medical bills.

[Daniel.]

What, are addicts meaningful, contributing members to society? ..I don't think so.

I could be wrong though... I am, after all, a fucking idiot :rofl:

I'm sorry but I'm with Eric on this one.

Drug addicts are a far cry from all the other sorts of criminals/felons that society typically associate with one another. (Murderers, burglers, rapists, child molestors) are not all cut from the same cloth.

Some just make poor choices and need our help to treat their disease, but not all deserve second chances.

JUST SAYIN'

P.S. Don't even get me started on prison reform.

[Geno750]

and spend a fortune of our tax paying dollars on their medical bills.

What? Just let them self medicate on more of this shit. The worse they get the more they take. This drug is a self remedy to removing the lowest dregs of society(life no parole, child killers, etc etc).

Also, just going from the statistics in the article, if there are 100k russians on this shit, then thats 100k less russian drug users in 2~3 years.

Win/win?

[CrimsonRockett]

I'm sorry but I'm with Eric on this one.

Drug addicts are a far cry from all the other sorts of criminals/felons that society typically associate with one another. (Murderers, burglers, rapists, child molestors) are not all cut from the same cloth.

Some just make poor choices and need our help to treat their disease, but not all deserve second chances.

JUST SAYIN'

P.S. Don't even get me started on prison reform.

Pretty much what I was trying to say (might have come out completely wrong though, haha).

Showed the first video to my little brother and his friends (13-14/in High School). The look on their faces was pretty bad. Hopefully it'll scare them straight. Pretty protective of him. I know all of his friends and know who/where he hangs out.

My girlfriend and I were talking about this yesterday. Looking back at our High School days now, I'm somewhat shocked at the amount of shit that was going on when we were in school. I mean, we all know it's happening, but it wasn't until now that we really comprehended the situation. MJ is pretty common and easily accessible (unfortunately), but so was Chrystal Meth.

Another reason why we want to move the hell away from this city.

[SLiDe_WaYz]

I heard about this drug a month or two ago, I don't understand what can be so good about it? U want your flesh to rot off your skin just for a 20-30min high? I just don't understand. Like others I've tried most drugs before but I really don't understand or grasp the concept of how there addicting. Weak minds I guess? This is disgusting. The pictures make me cringe.

[Daniel.]

Pretty much what I was trying to say (might have come out completely wrong though, haha).



You made complete sense in your post. Most people probably didn't bother to read it though (unfortunately).

Maybe more people will now, and see the sense in what we're saying.

[BURSTspeed]

This is how zombies are made.


I'm telling ya.

I was thinking thats how you can kill zombies lol, it would get them to fall apart, but yeah i guess it does create them as well haha

[bb4_96]

Addicts are people/family members too. Remeber that when you say all junkies deserve this shit. Just sayin..

I don't like the idea of addicts and I don't do the shit but think about it like the extasy associated with sex. If I could get that from a pipe I might be a junky too.

Nobody deserves the repercussions of this drug. Junkies may ruin there lives and everyone elses but they don't deserve this. It reminds me of the happening when everyone is killing themselves but it's beyond there control.

It's beyond me to debate people's strengths and weaknesses when it comes to addiction. It's easy to condemn someone else for their actions, especially if we don't know them, but who can relate? I've never had a strong enough physical desire for something that I simply could not deny. So I don't understand, prolly never will. I got a super diluted dose of narcotics after a surgery and it instantly made me vomit everywhere. I guess I don't know what to do with people who have serious drug addictions. But prison is not the answer, nor is rehab, nor is freedom, nor is a long painful death from this nasty 3rd world shit.

[SomeoneWhoIsntMe]

That's fucked. And yeah, it's not the desomorphine that does the rotting, it's the fact that they're cooking this shit up with stuff they find at the hardware store and not purifying it, so they're shooting red phosphorus and iodine...

[ronmcdon]

But prison is not the answer, nor is rehab, nor is freedom, nor is a long painful death from this nasty 3rd world shit.

http://troll.me/images/ronald-mcdonald-call/jesus-is-the-answer-believe-in-love.jpg

sorry couldn't resist.
instead of looking for answers, I think ppl should just be realistic with their expectations.
if you're getting into hard drugs, you can't kid yourself into thinking there are no risks.

[DS562]

Meanwhile in Russia....

[Corbic]

So this shit is the Crystal Meth of Heroin.

This is why I feel fighting drug use is pointless. People just find other stupid shit to get high off of.

Cocaine - Free Base - Crack - Meth

Mix prescription pills in a popcorn bowl with booze? Rotten Orange peals for a nicotine buzz.

Your never going to stop this shit, just legalize it, tax it and take a hard, heartless stance on abusers. (no welfare for users, no job rights for those that pop)

[DS562]

no, this is the dirty cousin of heroin. the article said so ;)

[Corbic]

Addicts are people/family members too. Remeber that when you say all junkies deserve this shit...



That is the exact problem.


Apparently you've never known or loved an addict. The sheer misery and suffering they put friends and families through is utterly insane. For them to constantly choose their drug over their life, children, lover, friends, family is simply disgusting and its even more heart wrench to watch these people do everything they possibly can to save this person. All the while the addict is playing off these peoples emotions and sympathies, blaming everyone else in the world and continuing on their selfish hypocritical bullshit physical and spiritual suicide.

Fuck these weak willed dregs of society and human filth.

[Corbic]

no, this is the dirty cousin of heroin. the article said so ;)

Crystal meth is a hyper synthetic Crack

Krodile is a synthetic fucked super Heroin.

[ericcastro]

Apparently you've never known or loved an addict. The sheer misery and suffering they put friends and families through is utterly insane. For them to constantly choose their drug over their life, children, lover, friends, family is simply disgusting and its even more heart wrench to watch these people do everything they possibly can to save this person. All the while the addict is playing off these peoples emotions and sympathies, blaming everyone else in the world and continuing on their selfish hypocritical bullshit physical and spiritual suicide.

.

Its happening a lot differently in their heads.
And the addiction has control over everything.

The reasons interventions are successful is because the addict is sat down and realizes what they are putting the family through. They realize the family is for them, and against the drug, not just against them.

You learn this crap growing up with one of the best counselors out there as your mother.





Told a work friend, he read a bunch on it.

CLIFFs

Basically Heroin is kind of the worse drug out there, or was.
Its most addictive, and takes a few painful weeks to wear off when your kicking it.

The Krocidile Takes over a month to kick, and the entire time it is so painful that people regularly pass out, (from pain!!).

With addicts, and that amount of pain, they arent thinking long term. And if "just one more fix" will ease that kind of pain for a few hours, then fuck it.... (at that point, very few people in the world would be strong enough to say no and stop).

People dont just start Kroc, they usually cant afford Heroin at $40-$60 euro's or whatever, and Kroc is about $3 euro's.
So you see how an addict can easily try a hit (and its all over from there).
Hardcore drug addicts dont start at the end.
Its usually some pot, and coke at a party or two, and progresses from there.


Also, Kroc takes a half hour to make, and wears off in a couple hours and starts hurting, so your almost instantly living for it. Cloths and the Kroc addicts also smell like iodine so bad they cant even wash it out of the clothes.

[DS562]

kroks so qualify as zombies.

[JVD]

lots of text
don't worry, eric, I read all of it! :)

while I do have some compassion for these users... initially... before all of this bullshit started destroying their bodies, they made the conscious decision to start using. they made the SELFISH decision to forget everything/everyone around them to get high.

I've dealt with addiction with quite a few people around me. I've seen/felt the pain it brings. some people will never understand that; some people will never even think about it before taking drugs.

that's kind of beside the point of this thread though. this drug looks INTENSE. definitely not something kids will be buying at parties though. seems like the already doomed speeding up the process. sad, but that's the reality of it.

[K_style]

I have been telling people all the chemical, artificial shit is bad... stick to natural stuff, organic if possible

EVEN for Drugs !!!

[amdnivram]

^ that and the fact that they dont even know what secondary reactions are taking place while the actually make the drugs.

[K_style]

^ that and the fact that they dont even know what secondary reactions are taking place while the actually make the drugs.

Lack of R&D.. and bad QC/QA LOL

[90hatchie]

i had a friend i knew since preschool tell me he had a heroin issue and wanted help getting off it when 2 people overdosed and died next to him
i took him to his house had him pack up 2 weeks worth of clothes
kept him in my house and did not go anywhere with out him helped him as much as i possibly could and we agreed to take him to a rehab center he spent 4 months there i picked him up he was alot happier to have kicked that habbit
he moved up to albany and is now working for this factory making toys

im really happy i helped someone that came to me in need
this shit is no joke
sure alot of users are scumbags and deserve to die but others made a mistake and need help getting off it

[slowvia]

What, are addicts meaningful, contributing members to society? ..I don't think so.

I could be wrong though... I am, after all, a fucking idiot :rofl:

I can think of a few addicts that have contributed to society in one way or another.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4kTxs80TVR8/TVWMMW1vMbI/AAAAAAAAHqw/eTzC7hoT6wk/s1600/rush-limbaugh-oxycontin.jpg

[BarrigaS14]

I'm sorry but I'm with Eric on this one.

Drug addicts are a far cry from all the other sorts of criminals/felons that society typically associate with one another. (Murderers, burglers, rapists, child molestors) are not all cut from the same cloth.

Some just make poor choices and need our help to treat their disease, but not all deserve second chances.

JUST SAYIN'

P.S. Don't even get me started on prison reform.

In Arizona, PD statistics are showing that most of the burglaries are being committed by drug users, mostly meth (which for the most part are all Felonies). Hell, many of the crimes revolve around drug usage. Rapists and molesters are a different breed.

But point of the fact is, most people, even when treated relapse back into their addictions. Once you are in, your level to society drops and you never really can join. You either continue to use that drug, move onto something else or die from it.

[bb4_96]

That is the exact problem.


Apparently you've never known or loved an addict. The sheer misery and suffering they put friends and families through is utterly insane. For them to constantly choose their drug over their life, children, lover, friends, family is simply disgusting and its even more heart wrench to watch these people do everything they possibly can to save this person. All the while the addict is playing off these peoples emotions and sympathies, blaming everyone else in the world and continuing on their selfish hypocritical bullshit physical and spiritual suicide.

Fuck these weak willed dregs of society and human filth.

My ex's stepdad was a junky. He once hocked an entire collection of disney movies in a night. Maybe 50 of them all belonging to the family gone. He'd take the car and head out to the projects on the west side of town and I would have to give my ex's mom a ride out there to get his keys and bring him and the car back. I hated him more than anything but his family loved him. I cant write off junkies as a whole or in part because unfortunately they are someone to someone. It would be much easier if there were no faces and names and they could be disposed of like destructive animals but it's just not the case. I couldn't feel that way about someone I love or care about. Actually I couldn't feel that way about most people. I feel like it's a silly sentiment. What if it turns out to be your kids/spouse/parents/siblings. Ever seen Traffic?

Besides the truly destructive addicts wind up getting into the system and going away.

In Arizona, PD statistics are showing that most of the burglaries are being committed by drug users, mostly meth (which for the most part are all Felonies). Hell, many of the crimes revolve around drug usage. Rapists and molesters are a different breed.

But point of the fact is, most people, even when treated relapse back into their addictions. Once you are in, your level to society drops and you never really can join. You either continue to use that drug, move onto something else or die from it.

That is where I draw the line personally. As soon as an addict crosses that threshhold into my house unlawfully he is as good as dead. The last story I heard was of a cousin of a co-worker. Apparently all strung out broke into an elderly womans home, gouged out her eyes with a pencil, and then sodomized her. You can be addicted to whatever you want but when you enter my home forcefully, you just gave your life away.

[tricky_ab]

CLIFFs

Basically Heroin is kind of the worse drug out there, or was.
Its most addictive, and takes a few painful weeks to wear off when your kicking it.

The Krocidile Takes over a month to kick, and the entire time it is so painful that people regularly pass out, (from pain!!).

With addicts, and that amount of pain, they arent thinking long term. And if "just one more fix" will ease that kind of pain for a few hours, then fuck it.... (at that point, very few people in the world would be strong enough to say no and stop).

People dont just start Kroc, they usually cant afford Heroin at $40-$60 euro's or whatever, and Kroc is about $3 euro's.
So you see how an addict can easily try a hit (and its all over from there).
Hardcore drug addicts dont start at the end.
Its usually some pot, and coke at a party or two, and progresses from there.


Also, Kroc takes a half hour to make, and wears off in a couple hours and starts hurting, so your almost instantly living for it. Cloths and the Kroc addicts also smell like iodine so bad they cant even wash it out of the clothes.


Yeah well put. Pretty much just a subset of people who are horribly addicted to heroin and yet are unable to steal/buy heroin so they need something radically cheaper.

2,000,000 people in Russia are addicted to heroin
100,000 of the above (5%) can't get heroin and take krokodil to keep the withdrawal at bay. If these individuals had access to their drug of choice they wouldn't be taking this (Not by choice). Prohibition never has a happy ending

[VROOOM]

its not always the addicts fault. a friend of mine was addicted to meth for a few years. his dad gave him his first line. talk about shitty. he ended up doign a few years in jail. he is now clean, probably 8 years now.

[stevenwhite1989]

How can you guys sit here and say that its not the addicts fault?
OF COURSE ITS THE ADDICTS FAULT!

Yea the drug makes them do things that they normally wouldnt do, but it was their decision to take the drug in the first place. Its not like you dont know what drugs will do to you. Like u woke up this morning and found out that drugs are bad for u? Doubt it.

I had a cousin who was off and on drugs for a long time, he died of an OD three years ago. The amount of pain that it has caused my whole family is unexplainable. BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT IT WAS HIS FAULT, NO ONE ELSE'S!

[bb4_96]

How can you guys sit here and say that its not the addicts fault?
OF COURSE ITS THE ADDICTS FAULT!

Yea the drug makes them do things that they normally wouldnt do, but it was their decision to take the drug in the first place. Its not like you dont know what drugs will do to you. Like u woke up this morning and found out that drugs are bad for u? Doubt it.

I had a cousin who was off and on drugs for a long time, he died of an OD three years ago. The amount of pain that it has caused my whole family is unexplainable. BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT IT WAS HIS FAULT, NO ONE ELSE'S!

agreed 100%

[towlie]

I remember a good friend of mine years ago, his name was chris. We used to skate together and sneak into movies, his nickname was "lil chris" for the longest time. That kid was funny as fuck, always had a bright smile on his face and was definatly an awesome friend.

About 8th grade his parents divorced and his new dad started beating his mom, chris started smoking weed.. LOTS of of weed. After a few months we started seeing less and less of him. Never at school, always gone, we'd show up at his house and his mom would have no idea where he was

When he was in 10th grade he dropped out and was doing harder drugs. Prescription pills, excasty, even heard rumors he tried smoking crack

I was always busy with work/school and life, he disappeared from my group of friends and we kinda forgot about him

The next time I heard about him cops had raided his house (squatting in a crack house) he was arrested for heroin possession and his addiction was so bad if he wasnt high he was puking and convulsing

He did get clean and I saw chris a few months ago, he is defiantly a different person(for the worse). No more bright smile, never cracking jokes, etc. Drugs changed who he was and destroyed his life. He was such an awesome kid with a very bright future

Now, I understand why he started using. Family life was a joke and of he could get high maybe he could forget about it.. However, drugs are not the way to cope with lifes problems (duh) I've witnessed an addict destroy everything first hand and I'm kinda angry like dude how could you do that to yourself... Back when he first started getting (really) high he would show up at my house and ask for some food, of course I'd give him a bite to eat and when he left I would always notice shit missing, the fuck? I'm sad to say he was worthless to society, worthless as a friend, he did that to himself, that's why I could gov a fuck less about ANY addict they destroyed their OWN lives even when there are people around them that love them and would do anything to help them

/post lol:wan:

[bb4_96]

^ I had a friend exactly like that. OD'd a couple years back and left a gf and kid.

[murda-c]

I really cannot see why anyone needs more than a fat joint and a 40 oz...

[Corbic]

How can you guys sit here and say that its not the addicts fault?
OF COURSE ITS THE ADDICTS FAULT!

Yea the drug makes them do things that they normally wouldnt do, but it was their decision to take the drug in the first place. Its not like you dont know what drugs will do to you. Like u woke up this morning and found out that drugs are bad for u? Doubt it.

I had a cousin who was off and on drugs for a long time, he died of an OD three years ago. The amount of pain that it has caused my whole family is unexplainable. BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT IT WAS HIS FAULT, NO ONE ELSE'S!

Peer-pressure, its a hell of a thing.

[Daniel.]

We as a society need to make the distinction between what addicts are worth rehabilitation and re-entry into society and what addicts are beyond us. The good ones are the ones that we need to keep out of prison and get into a program.

Addicts may not make the right choice when they first start using, but if they're serious about going clean and turning their life around, it's in our best interest to offer them a helping hand.

As for the rest of them that we can't hope to save from addiction...I don't really have a good answer on how to solve that problem.

[ronmcdon]

Good luck with how to go about establishing that distinction.

[ericcastro]

Lack of R&D.. and bad QC/QA LOL

LMAO !!!

In Arizona, PD statistics are showing that most of the burglaries are being committed by drug users, mostly meth (which for the most part are all Felonies). Hell, many of the crimes revolve around drug usage. Rapists and molesters are a different breed.


Hence "The War On Drugs" and "Dare".
But we see how effective those were.

How can you guys sit here and say that its not the addicts fault?
OF COURSE ITS THE ADDICTS FAULT!

Yea the drug makes them do things that they normally wouldnt do, but it was their decision to take the drug in the first place. Its not like you dont know what drugs will do to you. Like u woke up this morning and found out that drugs are bad for u? Doubt it.


Ya need to put it in perspective.

Have most of you had a cigarette?
Had an Alcoholic Beverage?
Smoked Weed?
Even did a little Coke at a party?
Ecstacy?
Acid/ Mushrooms?

All these seem harmless, but some peoples brain Chemistry works in a way were they got hooked.
Drinking is fun, but smoking some weed is more fun, a little coke is better, lets take some vicadin and crack some beers....

Getting hooked on drugs is a very slow process that most addicts dont notice till its to late, and they ended up doing the one that clicked with their brain chemistry, and then its an uphill battle to get your life back.

Look at the Indians for example. They didnt know that something that one man could drink was gonna destroy everything they had. Their chemistry wasnt set up for it.

We as a society need to make the distinction between what addicts are worth rehabilitation and re-entry into society and what addicts are beyond us. The good ones are the ones that we need to keep out of prison and get into a program.


Who are "we" as society, to pass judgment on others??

Some of the worlds worse addicts end up being the biggest help to others.
Bill W, the man that started the first 12 step program was a major alcoholic, on and off the wagon, treatment, and would be considered worthless in a lot of peoples opinion.
Finally end up getting clean, and creates the 12 step program that is the basis of every treatment program today and has saved millions.

" inspite of all this, what I want right now more than anything else is another drink" - Bill W


Of course, some Krok-meth would solve alot of our crime issues really quickly.



Here is the really great article on Krokodil

Krokodil: The drug that eats junkies - Europe, World - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/krokodil-the-drug-that-eats-junkies-2300787.html)

[tricky_ab]

I posted a link that article on the first page. And I strongly recommend people read through both...

[ericcastro]

^ I had just watched the video's and launched my own google search. :)


Just watched the video with the women with half her forearm bone showing and the deep abses/sore on her inside thigh, its even gnarlier.


Just curious why they arent using maggots to eat away the dead flesh? Maybe the iodine/krokodiled dead flesh is too toxic for them?

[Daniel.]

Who are "we" as society, to pass judgment on others??

Some of the worlds worse addicts end up being the biggest help to others.
Bill W, the man that started the first 12 step program was a major alcoholic, on and off the wagon, treatment, and would be considered worthless in a lot of peoples opinion.
Finally end up getting clean, and creates the 12 step program that is the basis of every treatment program today and has saved millions.

" inspite of all this, what I want right now more than anything else is another drink" - Bill W


Of course, some Krok-meth would solve alot of our crime issues really quickly.



Here is the really great article on Krokodil

Krokodil: The drug that eats junkies - Europe, World - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/krokodil-the-drug-that-eats-junkies-2300787.html)

I'm not talking about passing judgement on others. What I'm talking about is is creating a legal, judicial, or law enforcement process (or some cross functional combination of the three) to facilitate the rehabilitation of drug addicts.

The system that we've got now simply doesn't work. We incarcerate drug addicts and put them into the prison system instead of reaching out to them and possibly turning them into productive members of society.

[ericcastro]

I'm not talking about passing judgement on others. What I'm talking about is is creating a legal, judicial, or law enforcement process (or some cross functional combination of the three) to facilitate the rehabilitation of drug addicts.

The system that we've got now simply doesn't work. We incarcerate drug addicts and put them into the prison system instead of reaching out to them and possibly turning them into productive members of society.

They have those programs in prison.

And anyone who knows about addictions, will tell you that you cant help somebody thats not ready to be helped.
They have to reach their bottom first.
.......... and if trading cheeseburgers and blowjobs for rock isnt your bottom, then i am sure prison isnt either.

[slowvia]

I'm not talking about passing judgement on others. What I'm talking about is is creating a legal, judicial, or law enforcement process (or some cross functional combination of the three) to facilitate the rehabilitation of drug addicts.

The system that we've got now simply doesn't work. We incarcerate drug addicts and put them into the prison system instead of reaching out to them and possibly turning them into productive members of society.

I totally agree with you here. And I most definitely think thats its a possibility. Oh wait... Its a reality...
Drug policy of Portugal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal)

[ronmcdon]

Honestly I don't know what can be done in terms of a 'rehab process'
Most intervention programs, as I understand it, have a really low success rate.
'alcoholics anonymous' has a pretty low success rate.
Lot, if not the vast majority of the members eventually relapse.

It's easy to demand something better, but it's not so simple to come up with something that actually works.

I have a lot of good friends who are in AA, & it's truly surreal and horrific how many friends around you will relapse and pass away throughout the years.
Many of these are really good ppl, really no different from any of us besides their substance abuse past.
I'm convinced most are trying their best, have the best intentions, but it's just not easy unless to empathize what they go through unless you've been there yourself.

Nonetheless, I'm still a believer that some drugs just aren't even worth trying at all
The high chance of getting addicted to and some of the bad side-effects, for say meth & crack, are just too horrific.
This new drug is just on a totally new level of recklessness.

[Corbic]

Honestly I don't know what can be done in terms of a 'rehab process'


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bBc8G6cvDt0/TZAnTa2C9sI/AAAAAAAAAI4/d0GTpD7lNY0/s1600/frontal%2Blobotomy.jpg

[zeitgeist]

I get so sick of the holier than thou attitude!

Everyone makes mistakes and some are worse.
In my opinion it is our societies fault just as much as it is theirs. All the lies and the lack of REAL education about drugs in schools, the media, and the home.

Everyone is too scared to talk about it

Oh and it doesnt help when the gov. says crap like weed is just as dangerous as heroine.

"Oh if I smoke weed everyday and have no problems, I should be fine on coke and herione too"

EDUCATION is the key to lower drug use. I bet if we took kids to the nearest jail and show them what a crack head looks and acts like, then the odds of any of them messing with hard drugs will reduce drastically

[ronmcdon]

Idk, education (this was an undergrad course on substance abuse) actually got me to know the effects of smoking & taking shrooms weren't all that bad.
I got into a bit of it for recreation's sake afterwards & never got addicted.

honestly I think at least part of the problem is ppl doing drugs to self-medicate.
they drink or do downers prob b/c they have anxiety or want to relax,
uppers prob b/c lack of energy or depression.

I don't think a lot of ppl have a lot of awareness of their own problems,
much less know where to seek help.
And even then you see psychologists mis-diagnose kids as ADD, or bi-polar all the time.
We might then get into child developmental issues,
or how the kid simply grew up in a household/neighborhood with regular drug use.

There are just endless factor that contribute to substance abuse.
I wish education was the solution, and it's a good step regardless,
but it's difficult to come up with a simple solution for a very very complex problem.

[WanganRunner]

This stuff is disgusting.

Why would you even start it? If you're a heroin user and you REALLY need to get high that bad, and you can't get high, and the alternative is a horrible death in a year, wouldn't you just drink a quart of bleach and get it over with?

Bleh.

[murda-c]

This stuff is disgusting.

Why would you even start it? If you're a heroin user and you REALLY need to get high that bad, and you can't get high, and the alternative is a horrible death in a year, wouldn't you just drink a quart of bleach and get it over with?

Bleh.


Drinking bleach wont make the pain go away. This will.

[zeitgeist]

Idk, education (this was an undergrad course on substance abuse) actually got me to know the effects of smoking & taking shrooms weren't all that bad.
I got into a bit of it for recreation's sake afterwards & never got addicted.

honestly I think at least part of the problem is ppl doing drugs to self-medicate.
they drink or do downers prob b/c they have anxiety or want to relax,
uppers prob b/c lack of energy or depression.

I don't think a lot of ppl have a lot of awareness of their own problems,
much less know where to seek help.
And even then you see psychologists mis-diagnose kids as ADD, or bi-polar all the time.
We might then get into child developmental issues,
or how the kid simply grew up in a household/neighborhood with regular drug use.

There are just endless factor that contribute to substance abuse.
I wish education was the solution, and it's a good step regardless,
but it's difficult to come up with a simple solution for a very very complex problem.

Education worked perfect for you! That was my whole point! I bet you saw what you should stay away from. Im not trying to completely dissuade students from drug use but just to inform them so they can make better decisions.

Of course there will always be drug abusers. But infections, diseases, and a lot of the bad stuff that comes along with hard drugs will drastically lower as has been proven in other countries.

The average person doesnt start drugs because of problems in their lives, but because they are curious and in general people liked to get fucked up! People will always continue to get fucked up!

Hell, Ive done my fair share of different drugs also(Ive lost count of the different kinds but around 10)
But before I did anything I always educated myself on what was addictive and what was just a good time with my friends

We have all the proof in the world which shows us what works, but self interest overcomes the good of our nation yet again just as the Russian president made no clear move to help the addicts. As long as the profits are going from drugs corporations to his pockets, why worry?

[One_love_silvia]

well that was quite interesting. his bone was even clean.

is it wrong that im not bugged by this video?

[STL240SXDRIFT]

WTF is this disgusting shit? Flesh rotting? Jesus people...as if we don't have enough ridiculously stupid drugs in the world. Now they make this crap...and it actually makes its way to the US.

Anyone from Arizona on here know anyone stupid enough to try this stuff?

Flesh-rotting 'krokodil' drug emerges in USA (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/26/heroin-krokodil-flesh-rotting-arrives-us-arizona/2879817/)


Discuss

[turbo2nr]

bathsalts , zombie apocalypse is upon us..

[no slide]

i remember watching something on this where they were in russia (i think) sad stuff. i wouldnt want to know what the effects and what the comedown/detox would feel like. up with hope down with dope!

[VROOOM]

search for pics of what this stuff does to you. really nasty stuff.

[STL240SXDRIFT]

Yea...I didn't want to post any. Not sure if its something the mods would be ok with. Although the pics are a powerful deterrent to using this stuff...pretty gruesome.

[zooopreme]

Vice did a video a while back on this drug. It's not hard to make and inexpensive to make with the ingredients being accessible. It's actually quite sad.

[Felipe]

Wow... O.O

Dude1: "bro my finger just fell off"...... Looks at it.....
Dude2: "keep smoking or shut up and pass it!!!"
Dude1: smokes...

Lmao!!!!!

[S14DB]

Finally we get the good shit. If Russian cigarettes say anything, this stuff will be awesome.

[lewisfk]

The more the better, this planet is too damn crowded with idiots!

[AFSil80]

I say legalize it and remove the safety labels from everything else and society will eventually move forward from where it currently resides.

[Corbic]

It's good shit. Been around for a while.

I encourage it's usage. Hopefully it will help with our drug addict and homeless problems. If you are at the point you are shooting codeine cut with gasoline - there's no saving your society sucking, family wrecking, miserable life.

[deolio]

i watched a documentary about it a few years ago. some gruesome shit for sure. people are idiots.

[feito]

each day i feel luckier of just being a drunk...

[Corbic]

each day i feel luckier of just being a drunk...

Just wait till your 40.

[tdaffern]

search for pics of what this stuff does to you. really nasty stuff.

Some times Google is not your friend. That shit is nasty! I've always wondered what would make someone say "hey I want to try that" knowing what the effects are. Like meth, everyone knows what it does to you but people still get hooked everyday. Very sad..

[Corbic]

Some times Google is not your friend. That shit is nasty! I've always wondered what would make someone say "hey I want to try that" knowing what the effects are. Like meth, everyone knows what it does to you but people still get hooked everyday. Very sad..

I think you'd be surprised.

First, those that do drugs are actually generally fucking stupid. I've met a few that think they are smart, but they are not. Second, I'd be curious to what state someone may already be in when trying something like meth or krokodil. Already high, desperate for a fix...

Ultimately the massive reduction in the use of crack-cocain has been because of the rampant stereo types and the increased difficulty in getting it. Meth took its place, originally billed as a designer drug.

Sure meth being smoked anymore has a negative "redneck/white trash" image... however brand it as "Tina" or "Molly", tell kids it's just "ecstasy" and bamn, shits hot again and people are singing about it cauz it's fucking cool.


So give a stupid junkie or chicken head a shot of Krock calling it something cool like "liquid sky" or "synthetic heroin... it's like the ecstasy of the heroin world"... they do it a few times, are totally wasted off it... and by the time their arm falls off their brain has long since been fried.

[az_240]

Not surprised it shows up in AZ first.... we always get the dirty shit:(

[tricky_ab]

I am all about Vice docs, but this was the one that I couldn't bring myself to watch. I have absolutely no problem not googling it. This shit is nightmare fuel.

[Forte EXE]

Saw videos of this drug a couple years ago. Nasty, nasty stuff. I remember this girl that had all of her skin off her forearm and you could see right between the bones.

I remember that video saying, the patients were in so much pain, but they still wanted to hit it again.

Im pretty sure this will hit hard, but its not going to be right away.

[tdaffern]

Sure meth being smoked anymore has a negative "redneck/white trash" image... however brand it as "Tina" or "Molly", tell kids it's just "ecstasy" and bamn, shits hot again and people are singing about it cauz it's fucking cool.

Is Molly a type of Meth? I saw a video on Facebook of a guy tripping out on Molly. He couldn't stand up and was screaming.

[AFSil80]

Is Molly a type of Meth? I saw a video on Facebook of a guy tripping out on Molly. He couldn't stand up and was screaming.

Living the dream, I tell ya.

[supersayianjim]

drugs are bad!! but seems everyone wants to legalize pot???

but i didn't know we could get to pick and choose what drugs were ok??

[AFSil80]

I'll say this much...I'm more open to the idea of naturally occurring substances like weed than all these chemically manufactured drugs that are all the rage.

[supersayianjim]

so popie seeds are ok then??

[sw20>>s14]

I remember that video saying, the patients were in so much pain, but they still wanted to hit it again.


The claims are that users are in so much pain that they have to continue using the drug because morphine and other types of pain killers have no effect. So once you show signs of physical deterioration, you continue using the drug to "ease" the pain until you die.

Is Molly a type of Meth? I saw a video on Facebook of a guy tripping out on Molly. He couldn't stand up and was screaming.

Kids now a days don't realize that meth has always been in ecstasy and mollies. Obviously there are examples of more pure and dirty samples, but it's always been cut with meth. Only difference is that meth is most dangerous/addicting if smoked or injected into the bloodstream. Still shitty stuff to mess with no matter what, but most "effective" when using the aforementioned methods.

I agree with everyone though, I think it's a good way of population control. Queue the government conspirators.

[Corbic]

drugs are bad!! but seems everyone wants to legalize pot???

but i didn't know we could get to pick and choose what drugs were ok??

Ever use Aspirin or Penicillin? How about some novocain when you got your tooth drilled? Ever drank a beer, some whine or a margarita? Had cigar or a cigarette lately? What about a Red Bull, Monster or Pepsi Cola?

[Corbic]

I'll say this much...I'm more open to the idea of naturally occurring substances like weed than all these chemically manufactured drugs that are all the rage.

The problem is that banning the natural substances, Opium, Marijuana, Cocaine; etc... leads to the development of designer drugs.

For example, people originally used opiates and cocaine like we use aspirin and caffeine today. Granted they formed addiction and caused health problems... but we did use them regularly as a society. Then we banned them... this made it harder to get, so when you did get some, you had to make it count.

So where once cocaine was mixed with your cola, you now snorted it... then you smoked it (Freebase) and eventually someone figured out how to mix it with baking soda (or whatever) and created crack-cocaine. Each evolution produced a greater high, stronger addiction all the while requiring less of the substance.

Eventually Meth was created to give a similar "high" but this time you didn't need any cocaine! It was all synthetic. Meth too has gone under a lot of evolutions since the 1970's.

As SW20 stated, even "Extacy" has made lots of changes in recent years - to get higher off less product making dealers more money.

MDMA (3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine) is an empathogenic drug of the phenethylamine and amphetamine classes of drugs. MDMA has become widely known as "ecstasy" (shortened to "E", "X", or "XTC"), usually referring to its street pill form, although this term may also include the presence of possible adulterants. The terms "mandy" or "molly" colloquially refers to MDMA in powder or crystalline form, usually implying a higher level of purity.[3]

What I find ironic is that Miley, Jay Z and other pop-stars will sing about "Molly" as if it's some glamorous party drug like cocaine of the late 70's... all the while they are basically just snorting trailer-trash backyard meth.

[xoxide]

drugs are bad!! but seems everyone wants to legalize pot???

but i didn't know we could get to pick and choose what drugs were ok??
Probably the most ignorant statement in this thread. I do not smoke week, nor have any desire to try it but...

I support the legalization of a naturally grown substance that has been scientifically proven to help ease many many many "issues" (on the topic of medicinal mj), way before I support the continued legalization of cigerette's which have chemicals such as tar, formeldehyde, arsenic, DDT (if you dont know about DDT then you need to do a little research), and about 585 other toxic chemicals (43 of which are KNOWN to cause cancer) in them...

How many people have you heard about dying from smoking pot?

Well heres some facts:
-0 people have ever been recorded from dying as a direct result from smoking pot.
- Roughly 70 people die per year while high... Again, not as a direct result from the pot.

Now for smoking, how many people die from smoking, lung cancer, etc. each year?
- Roughly 443,000 people die each year as a result of smoking.
- Another 8.6 million people are currently estimated to be living with a disiese as a result of smoking.


Now tell me again why pot should be illegal?


Consider yourself englightened.


On topic though-
This is some nasty shit. Wow... Googled the pics, grusome.

[Corbic]

^well said, and let us not even go down the path known as "alcohol".

[thefro526]

This is sad, although not unexpected. Odds are, someone in the US looking for a hit was surfing the web and found a link for Krokodil, found out how easy it was to make and gave it a shot.

I'm not going to sit here and say that drugs aren't a bad idea - trust me, they are - but more often than not, some of the extremes associated with addiction and 'addict life' are due to the fact that drugs are illegal, and taboo in most modern societies. We as a people (a nation, a culture, etc.) cannot accept the fact that addicts will exist, and that addiction is something that a significant number of people will deal with in their lifetime.

Because of this, we (again, as a nation, culture, etc) chose to persecute drug users, dealers, manufacturers, etc, as if putting them in jail will solve the problem. It doesn't. There's so much money and power in the game that it will not go away until there is no longer a game to be played.

You're probably reading this and thinking 'What the hell is this dude talking about?' - and I don't blame you.

Basically, what I'm saying, is that the fact that the US (and much of the 'modern' world) has a 'zero tolerance' approach to drug use is the real catalyst for addiction in modern times. Look at all of the kids that smoke weed before they've graduated high school. This number is relatively constant over time. Where do you go to buy weed? (if you're not in Cali, or Colorado or another 'green' state) You go to your dealer. Odds are, your dealer is a shady character at best (though there are some on the up and up, I've met at least one like this) and is only looking to make money. He'll (she'll) introduce you to weed, then to the next thing, and to the next thing, until they've got you hooked.

Once you're hooked, now you're playing the deadly game of 'what is this shit'. You're told it's one thing - when in reality, it's a bit of this, a bit of that, and a dash of something else. There's no real control in the game, especially at the street level. As long as sales aren't hurt, dealers will cut shit with anything they can find.

Hypothetically - imagine if a person could walk into a pharmacy and get whatever they wanted. Imagine if you could buy an Opiate, an Amphetamine, etc, from your local Walgreens or CVS. What would you be getting then? You'd be buying something that's made in a laboratory (a cleaner one than most street drugs) under strict control standards, where they're moderately less greedy and evil than you're average street dealer.

Think about the problem of addiction in that scenario. Sure, addiction would still exist, but it would be in the form of substance abuse where the substances are 'safe' (in the sense that you're getting what you bought, not something that will get you high, but also contains gasoline) because they're made for consumer consumption and monitored (taxed) by the government.

I'm not saying that drug addiction would cease to exist under such a model - I believe that it would change form into something that is much less deadly - and possibly more controllable. (Not to mention, that it basically kills the current incentives for organized crime involved.)

All of that being said, there is no perfect solution to the problem. On one hand, you can accept that addiction will exist and attempt to 'control it' and 'make it safe' (the side that I stand on) - and on the other, you can attempt to eradicate it entirely (the side that most Gov'ts seem to play).

Neither of those is a perfect solution, but if thousands (millions) of years of Humanity have taught us anything, we should understand that people will become addicted to damn near anything - TV, Video Games, Internet, Working, Drugs, Women, Men, Sex, Power, Money, Dreams, Tanning, Driving, Running, Biking, Living, Dying, Loving, Hating - Anything.

[xoxide]

^Very well said Fro.

[S12 Drifter]

Heres a fact: henry ford built a car completely out of hemp and it was stronger and lighter then steel.

For those who dont know hemp is from cannabis aka weed in stran form or twine form. Also cannabis has show to sl?ow brain aging in people with alzhiemers and remove deceased brain cells. I know a friend who has been smoking in moderation since i met him this guy never gets sick ever. If there were a zombie out break this guy would be the very last guy to get converted.

Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk 2

[xoxide]

^Being from Miami I'd say its probably a good thing that he is preparing.

[S12 Drifter]

It was an example you twat.

Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk 2

[VNG704]

This is sad, although not unexpected. Odds are, someone in the US looking for a hit was surfing the web and found a link for Krokodil, found out how easy it was to make and gave it a shot.

I'm not going to sit here and say that drugs aren't a bad idea - trust me, they are - but more often than not, some of the extremes associated with addiction and 'addict life' are due to the fact that drugs are illegal, and taboo in most modern societies. We as a people (a nation, a culture, etc.) cannot accept the fact that addicts will exist, and that addiction is something that a significant number of people will deal with in their lifetime.

Because of this, we (again, as a nation, culture, etc) chose to persecute drug users, dealers, manufacturers, etc, as if putting them in jail will solve the problem. It doesn't. There's so much money and power in the game that it will not go away until there is no longer a game to be played.

You're probably reading this and thinking 'What the hell is this dude talking about?' - and I don't blame you.

Basically, what I'm saying, is that the fact that the US (and much of the 'modern' world) has a 'zero tolerance' approach to drug use is the real catalyst for addiction in modern times. Look at all of the kids that smoke weed before they've graduated high school. This number is relatively constant over time. Where do you go to buy weed? (if you're not in Cali, or Colorado or another 'green' state) You go to your dealer. Odds are, your dealer is a shady character at best (though there are some on the up and up, I've met at least one like this) and is only looking to make money. He'll (she'll) introduce you to weed, then to the next thing, and to the next thing, until they've got you hooked.

Once you're hooked, now you're playing the deadly game of 'what is this shit'. You're told it's one thing - when in reality, it's a bit of this, a bit of that, and a dash of something else. There's no real control in the game, especially at the street level. As long as sales aren't hurt, dealers will cut shit with anything they can find.

Hypothetically - imagine if a person could walk into a pharmacy and get whatever they wanted. Imagine if you could buy an Opiate, an Amphetamine, etc, from your local Walgreens or CVS. What would you be getting then? You'd be buying something that's made in a laboratory (a cleaner one than most street drugs) under strict control standards, where they're moderately less greedy and evil than you're average street dealer.

Think about the problem of addiction in that scenario. Sure, addiction would still exist, but it would be in the form of substance abuse where the substances are 'safe' (in the sense that you're getting what you bought, not something that will get you high, but also contains gasoline) because they're made for consumer consumption and monitored (taxed) by the government.

I'm not saying that drug addiction would cease to exist under such a model - I believe that it would change form into something that is much less deadly - and possibly more controllable. (Not to mention, that it basically kills the current incentives for organized crime involved.)

All of that being said, there is no perfect solution to the problem. On one hand, you can accept that addiction will exist and attempt to 'control it' and 'make it safe' (the side that I stand on) - and on the other, you can attempt to eradicate it entirely (the side that most Gov'ts seem to play).

Neither of those is a perfect solution, but if thousands (millions) of years of Humanity have taught us anything, we should understand that people will become addicted to damn near anything - TV, Video Games, Internet, Working, Drugs, Women, Men, Sex, Power, Money, Dreams, Tanning, Driving, Running, Biking, Living, Dying, Loving, Hating - Anything.You don't think more people will use these drugs because of easier/legal access? Controlled drugs are also being illegally sold today. I don't know how people are getting them but they have controlled weed, pain killers, etc... and selling them to addicts. So the only positive I see from your post is that the drugs will not be as damaging and the money from taxing. Though you make a somewhat good option, I think I prefer to keep them illegal. People will get their drugs one way or another but atleast it being illegal will deter some.

[thefro526]

You don't think more people will use these drugs because of easier/legal access? Controlled drugs are also being illegally sold today. I don't know how people are getting them but they have controlled weed, pain killers, etc... and selling them to addicts. So the only positive I see from your post is that the drugs will not be as damaging and the money from taxing. Though you make a somewhat good option, I think I prefer to keep them illegal. People will get their drugs one way or another but atleast it being illegal will deter some.

I understand where you're coming from, and you're right prescription medications are pretty much freely sold by those who don't need them to those who abuse them. With that being said, that's not all that different from the street drug model, with the main difference being that the drugs are 'safe'.

Personally I think having unrestricted access to substances would lead to decrease in usage rates, at least among those who would 'typically' become addicts. I sort of see it as removing the 'gateway'. I don't believe that 'gateway drug' shit that they try to teach in school, the drugs aren't the gateway, the people that you use with and get them from are the gateway.

[Corbic]

Honestly I think you just have addicts out there. They are predestined to be trash their entire lives.

These are the people that get rotten orange peels and suck on them to get a nicotine buz, they sniff glue, drink 5 cans of redbull and can't just smoke one joint, once a month at a party with friends... they roll out of bed, get high and spend their day either high or trying to find ways to be high.

Just like alcohol. There are people that get wild and crazy once a year, there are people that will have a few drinks with the boys and then theirs the people that can't make it through a day without being mildly intoxicated all day long.

Legalizing this shit would do two things. It would allow the Government to tax the piss out of a trillion dollar industry while reducing the actual costs of drugs.

It would reduce crime as 70% of crime is committed because of drugs - either thefts/robberies to get money to buy it, or violence related to selling it.

It would reduce the cost of incarceration because of the reduced crime. It would also destroy the mexican drug cartels powers - back to protection, gambling and prostitution rackets with them.

As for the millions of people that will destroy their lives with substance abuse - fuck them. Seriously. They want to get high all day long, FUCK THEM. Let them, be my guest. You want to overdose on over-the-counter heroine? Go ahead, it's a free fucking country.

The flip to this, which our liberal democrats would never agree with is that if you test positive for drugs or are a user - you don't get a fucking nickel of social welfare, healthcare or insurance. Everything in life has consequences.

[S14DB]

The flip to this, which our liberal democrats would never agree with is that if you test positive for drugs or are a user - you don't get a fucking nickel of social welfare, healthcare or insurance. Everything in life has consequences.

Wait, Aren't they doing that already? How many people are testing positive?

[ultimateforce]

Wait, Aren't they doing that already? How many people are testing positive?

Basically none. The drug testing companies made a killing taking money from the government though.

An inane, money-eating sham: Drug tests for welfare a huge failure - Salon.com (http://www.salon.com/2013/08/29/gop%E2%80%99s_inane_money_eating_sham_drug_tests_f or_welfare_a_huge_failure/)

The usual, they get the middle class to hate poor people while the rich fill their pockets.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/us/no-savings-found-in-florida-welfare-drug-tests.html?_r=0

Welfare Drug Testing Catches Only 12 Users In Utah (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/27/welfare-drug-testing_n_3822750.html)

Florida didn't save money by drug testing welfare recipients, data shows | Tampa Bay Times (http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/florida-didnt-save-money-by-drug-testing-welfare-recipients-data-shows/1225721)

This may surprise you, but if you are truly broke you don't have money for drugs. On the flip side, for someone who has a serious drug habit I wonder what happens when you take away their access to money yet don't give them options for treatment? What about the children, who are stuck with their drug addicted parents? It's not like we have real social services anymore for them.

Oh, they become violent criminals of course. That is truly what we want; more ways to feel superior over a group of people.

Now if we want to really even things out let's drug test farmers and home owners who get money from the government too. Oh wait, that would be unfair! It's only bad when the working poor smoke weed, not me!

[VNG704]

I understand where you're coming from, and you're right prescription medications are pretty much freely sold by those who don't need them to those who abuse them. With that being said, that's not all that different from the street drug model, with the main difference being that the drugs are 'safe'.

Personally I think having unrestricted access to substances would lead to decrease in usage rates, at least among those who would 'typically' become addicts. I sort of see it as removing the 'gateway'. I don't believe that 'gateway drug' shit that they try to teach in school, the drugs aren't the gateway, the people that you use with and get them from are the gateway.Not "safe", just not as damaging. Like you're brain will still fry, just slower.

Honestly I think you just have addicts out there. They are predestined to be trash their entire lives.

These are the people that get rotten orange peels and suck on them to get a nicotine buz, they sniff glue, drink 5 cans of redbull and can't just smoke one joint, once a month at a party with friends... they roll out of bed, get high and spend their day either high or trying to find ways to be high.

Just like alcohol. There are people that get wild and crazy once a year, there are people that will have a few drinks with the boys and then theirs the people that can't make it through a day without being mildly intoxicated all day long.

Legalizing this shit would do two things. It would allow the Government to tax the piss out of a trillion dollar industry while reducing the actual costs of drugs.

It would reduce crime as 70% of crime is committed because of drugs - either thefts/robberies to get money to buy it, or violence related to selling it.

It would reduce the cost of incarceration because of the reduced crime. It would also destroy the mexican drug cartels powers - back to protection, gambling and prostitution rackets with them.

As for the millions of people that will destroy their lives with substance abuse - fuck them. Seriously. They want to get high all day long, FUCK THEM. Let them, be my guest. You want to overdose on over-the-counter heroine? Go ahead, it's a free fucking country.

The flip to this, which our liberal democrats would never agree with is that if you test positive for drugs or are a user - you don't get a fucking nickel of social welfare, healthcare or insurance. Everything in life has consequences.
So then we'll see a rise in other crimes? There goes the cost of incarceration because of reduced crime you were talking about.

Best bet was to have it legal and controlled from the beginning. It's too late now. Just look at the legal drugs, they get sold and abused just like illegal drugs. People are too, uh...human to do any better.

[thefro526]

Legalizing this shit would do two things. It would allow the Government to tax the piss out of a trillion dollar industry while reducing the actual costs of drugs.

It would reduce crime as 70% of crime is committed because of drugs - either thefts/robberies to get money to buy it, or violence related to selling it.

It would reduce the cost of incarceration because of the reduced crime. It would also destroy the mexican drug cartels powers - back to protection, gambling and prostitution rackets with them.

As for the millions of people that will destroy their lives with substance abuse - fuck them. Seriously. They want to get high all day long, FUCK THEM. Let them, be my guest. You want to overdose on over-the-counter heroine? Go ahead, it's a free fucking country.

The flip to this, which our liberal democrats would never agree with is that if you test positive for drugs or are a user - you don't get a fucking nickel of social welfare, healthcare or insurance. Everything in life has consequences.

Words cannot express how much I agree with this.

Not "safe", just not as damaging. Like you're brain will still fry, just slower.

Agreed, which is why I put the word safe in quotes. Arguably, the adulterants/contaminants in drugs are the real problem, as they have their own side effects, along with varying the amount of the 'drug' in a given doses.

Look at all of the people that are prescribed drugs indefinitely for one reason or another. Chronic pain, ADHD, Narcolepsy, Axiety, Depression, etc. they can be on this stuff all of their life, and they will experience side effects, and a possibly shortened life span, but are at least - to some degree -f unctional members of society that don't have to resort to crime and/or morally questionable acts to fill their need.


So then we'll see a rise in other crimes? There goes the cost of incarceration because of reduced crime you were talking about.

Best bet was to have it legal and controlled from the beginning. It's too late now. Just look at the legal drugs, they get sold and abused just like illegal drugs. People are too, uh...human to do any better.

I don't see where the increased rate of crime comes from. You legalize previously illegal substances and remove the incentive for people to break the law to sell/acquire them. These people can now walk down to their local pharmacy, buy whatever they want and continue on with their day. The pricing for substances would be reasonably stable, and it would be safe to think that use of these things would be regarded in the same way as alcohol or tobacco, meaning that there wouldn't be a need to worry about getting drug tested.

There's also the issue of 'chronic' incarceration to think about. Imagine all of the people who go to jail for 'minor' drug offenses - like possession of weed. These people go to jail, and when they get out, they're considered felons - meaning that they're going to struggle to get a halfway decent job for the rest of their lives. Because of this, to make something that resembles a decent income, they go back to crime, and eventually get caught.. It's a vicious cycle.

[VNG704]

I don't see where the increased rate of crime comes from.

Honestly I think you just have addicts out there. They are predestined to be trash their entire lives.

These are the people that get rotten orange peels and suck on them to get a nicotine buz, they sniff glue, drink 5 cans of redbull and can't just smoke one joint, once a month at a party with friends... they roll out of bed, get high and spend their day either high or trying to find ways to be high.

Just like alcohol. There are people that get wild and crazy once a year, there are people that will have a few drinks with the boys and then theirs the people that can't make it through a day without being mildly intoxicated all day long.
- this results in drunk driving, fights, etc...drug abuse make you do stupid and sometimes other illegal acts.
Legalizing this shit would do two things. It would allow the Government to tax the piss out of a trillion dollar industry while reducing the actual costs of drugs.

It would reduce crime as 70% of crime is committed because of drugs - either thefts/robberies to get money to buy it, or violence related to selling it.

It would reduce the cost of incarceration because of the reduced crime. It would also destroy the mexican drug cartels powers - back to protection, gambling and prostitution rackets with them.

As for the millions of people that will destroy their lives with substance abuse - fuck them. Seriously. They want to get high all day long, FUCK THEM. Let them, be my guest. You want to overdose on over-the-counter heroine? Go ahead, it's a free fucking country.

The flip to this, which our liberal democrats would never agree with is that if you test positive for drugs or are a user - you don't get a fucking nickel of social welfare, healthcare or insurance. Everything in life has consequences.

I was elaborating on Corbic's post. You're right, lets look at alcohol. You may have a decreased in the illegal sales but that does not help other drug related crimes. Now, I don't know of anything better either. I just wanted to point things out.

[7x13]

WHAT THE FUUUUUUUH!

If I had to choose I'd go all natural for my drug induced hulucinations.
Good thing I Don't do drugs.

"Its in your nature to destroy yourselves":picardfp:

[sleepyS14se]

wow this thread has gotten pretty deep...LOL....

I just viewed some images on google and read up about it a bit and zomg is all i can say...

this really doesn't surprise me, just like the bath salts and the guy who ate the other guys face off did not even surprise me one bit.

[tiggertsi]

some of you were speaking of addicts. addiction isn't just localized to drug users. addiction can cover a gambit of things, like shopping addiction and sex addiction. and those non drug addictions can and have ruined lives just as badly as drug addictions.

i can't say it better than this guy .......

There is a general myth that drugs, in themselves, are addictive. In fact, the war on drugs is predicated on the idea that if you interdict the source of drugs you can deal with addiction that way. Now, if you understand addiction in the broader sense we see that nothing in itself is addictive. No substance, no drug is by itself addictive and no behavior is by itself addictive. Many people can go shopping without becoming shopaholics. Not everyone becomes a food addict. Not everyone who drinks a glass of wine becomes an alcoholic. So the real issue is: what makes people susceptible? Because it's the combination of a susceptible individual and the potentially addictive substance or behavior that makes for the full flowering of addiction. In short, it's not the drug that's addictive, it's the question of the susceptibility of the individual to being addicted to a particular substance or behavior. - Gabor Maté

from the wiki about him "Canadian physician who specializes in the study and treatment of addiction and is also widely recognized for his unique perspective on Attention Deficit Disorder and his firmly held belief in the connection between mind and body health."

now with that being said ..... if you do drugs educate yourself to what drug you are doing. natural is always preferable in my experience, like thc, psilocybin and lsa. and it's a shame that we have a government that instead of truly educating our populace about recreational drugs they wage a "war" against anyone who wants to experiment with altering their consciousness. while at the same time condoning the sale and use of prescribed drugs that do more damage than the conditions they are supposed to treat. I would have thought that the government would have learned its lesson during prohibition but I guess fear and ignorance still triumph at the end of the day.

but who am i to say?

[uraznfriend]

some of you were speaking of addicts. addiction isn't just localized to drug users. addiction can cover a gambit of things, like shopping addiction and sex addiction. and those non drug addictions can and have ruined lives just as badly as drug addictions.



i dont believe shopaholics and gamblers are "real" addicts theyre are just weak minded individuals that cannot give up a guilty pleasure of theirs. Physical drugs, heroine, coke, meth, oxycotton, etc are physically messing with peoples chemical balance forcing them to continue on seeking that "high". Its like that stop smoking commercial of that guy going to addiction centers saying hes was addicted to running and M&Ms, they are all looking at him like hes dumb because neither of those have universally addicting qualities.

[tiggertsi]

i dont believe shopaholics and gamblers are "real" addicts theyre are just weak minded individuals that cannot give up a guilty pleasure of theirs. Physical drugs, heroine, coke, meth, oxycotton, etc are physically messing with peoples chemical balance forcing them to continue on seeking that "high". Its like that stop smoking commercial of that guy going to addiction centers saying hes was addicted to running and M&Ms, they are all looking at him like hes dumb because neither of those have universally addicting qualities.

i understand what you're saying. but when it comes to what you classify as real addictions i'll listen to someone who has actually treated "real" addictions and has made a name for himself based on his highly successful methods and ideology concerning addictions, mainly treating those who are severely addicted to heroine. and alot of those i have heard in his same field share his thoughts about addiction. information is out there all you got to do is search.

[S14DB]

Wow, I didn't know so many people on here had such diverse backgrounds in addiction medicine...

[xoxide]

^I'm also an established facebook politician and lawyer depending on the occasion.

[stevenrapids]

^hahahaha so true with everyone. Idk why everyone is getting in an arguement of people being addicts. Not all cases are the same, so to put them all in one category is dumb. Fact of the matter is, if you are weak-minded enough to take a drug you know is harmful and has a track record of being addictive, you rolled the dice from the get go. No sympathy coming from me.

[Matej]

Legalize it!

Krokodil helps me relax after a long day of watching TV.

[S14kouki_10]

i dont believe shopaholics and gamblers are "real" addicts theyre are just weak minded individuals that cannot give up a guilty pleasure of theirs. Physical drugs, heroine, coke, meth, oxycotton, etc are physically messing with peoples chemical balance forcing them to continue on seeking that "high". Its like that stop smoking commercial of that guy going to addiction centers saying hes was addicted to running and M&Ms, they are all looking at him like hes dumb because neither of those have universally addicting qualities.

Im pretty sure your dopamine levels rise when shopping, gambling, eating m&m's etc.. therefore there is chemical changes in your body... everything is an addiction, just different things/levels.. addiction is for the weak-minded in general
can we say that life is an addiction? how can we solve that? how do we control life.. knowledge/education?