Better Cooling Solution

[jamanrr]

Hey guys I live in the south and it gets super hot and super humid. I have an s14 sr20det running 19 lbs of boost and during the fall and winter it does not get hot nor run over 78 degrees Celsius. Since it has been getting hotter. I have noticed that my A/C is not getting as cool as I think it should. I run two cheap ebay electric fans on the front of my radiator. I have bought the original s14 shroud for use with the mechanical fan and am thinking about switching back. I know some people have said the electric fans work best but most professional drifters run OG mechanical fans on their cars. I will continue to use a condenser electric fan wired up to my inside dash so I can cool it off. I need some ideas to take care of this.

Can anyone that runs mechanical fans now with the shroud chime in as to how much better they cool than the electronic ones? I really need to come up with a better cooling solution than what I have and am in need of some help. I am not interested in a big debate on what I run and how I should do something else. I basically want to know from people who have ran electronic fans then switched back to the mechanical / shroud combo and how much better or worse it cooled off the engine.

thank you very much

[pidass]

Are you asking about the A/C or the engine temps?

If you're A/C isn't as cold as it used to you may need to recharge it with freon and add dye just in case there is a leak.

Engine temps it may be worth while to upgrade to altima fans which should be better than the cheapo ebay stuff. May even be cheaper if you have a pull-a-part near you.

[jamanrr]

Are you asking about the A/C or the engine temps?

If you're A/C isn't as cold as it used to you may need to recharge it with freon and add dye just in case there is a leak.

Engine temps it may be worth while to upgrade to altima fans which should be better than the cheapo ebay stuff. May even be cheaper if you have a pull-a-part near you.


ok this is not what I asked. I asked for people WHO have ran electronic fans and switched back the mechanical. How well did they work as compared to the others. Altima fans are not that great. I use to run them. If the mechanical combo does not work then I will probably try some flexalite big fans.

[slider2828]

My buddy has the flexilite fans with the optional fan controller... S blades too.. Those things cool temps like no other... its good stuff and has a built in shroud to give maximum cooling.

Personally I love mechanicals because they cool at the right rate. Faster the engine the faster the cooling... its 1:1... Whereas electronics not so much, it cools when it hits a temp and cools more when it hits another temp with a second fan.... Electronics also give you more space... but yeah I love mechs 19 PSI on a built GT2871R close to 400PSI... but vented hood and aftermarket bumpers and correct cooling panels really help too!

[D.Adams]

I don’t think it gets as hot out there as it does out here. During the summer its 120+ deg out here. I run the OEM clutch type fan with A/C and 12lbs on a t28r and my motor never goes above 210 degrees ferinheight. You could go clutch fan and you should be good. But if you like E-Fans I would go with a set 12'' puller fans with a fan shroud.

My friend has FAL E-Fans and he bitches about his motor running an little hot on hot days with his ac on.

[jamanrr]

I don’t think it gets as hot out there as it does out here. During the summer its 120+ deg out here. I run the OEM clutch type fan with A/C and 12lbs on a t28r and my motor never goes above 210 degrees ferinheight. You could go clutch fan and you should be good. But if you like E-Fans I would go with a set 12'' puller fans with a fan shroud.

My friend has FAL E-Fans and he bitches about his motor running an little hot on hot days with his ac on.





yeah thanks guys. I know it is two different systems. My condenser is dirty as hell which is not flowing air over it like it should. My a/c is cool and the compresser engages but it does not blow as cold as it should. I will change everything over to the mechancial fan. I will replace the electronic fans with one electronic s blade fal or flex a lite fan with another shroud for the a/c compressor hopefully this will get it the air that it needs. If this does not fix it then I will have to have it leak tested. There has to be a way to keep engine coolant temps under 90 degrees Celsius.

It is hard as hell to live everyday here with a car without A/C but I do have a back up car or another daily driver unmodified.

[jamanrr]

My buddy has the flexilite fans with the optional fan controller... S blades too.. Those things cool temps like no other... its good stuff and has a built in shroud to give maximum cooling.

Personally I love mechanicals because they cool at the right rate. Faster the engine the faster the cooling... its 1:1... Whereas electronics not so much, it cools when it hits a temp and cools more when it hits another temp with a second fan.... Electronics also give you more space... but yeah I love mechs 19 PSI on a built GT2871R close to 400PSI... but vented hood and aftermarket bumpers and correct cooling panels really help too!


this is what I run around 400psi on a GT2871r. Mech uses mechanical fans? Do you know what kinda of temps he runs? thanks


I looked at it again and I think this is what I am going to do. My FMIC covers 75 percent of my condenser and radiator. So it is not getting good flow through the condenser and radiator. I will be using the mechanical fan and then add a pusher type fan on the condenser. That way it will push air through the condenser from the outside air so you will have the mechanical fan drawing air from the front of the radiator and the condenser fan pushing air through the condenser and into the radiator thus feeding it more outside air that it can not get due to the restriction in flow from the front of the car with the Inter-cooler in the way. this should work I hope.

[D.Adams]

this is what I run around 400psi on a GT2871r. Mech uses mechanical fans? Do you know what kinda of temps he runs? thanks


I looked at it again and I think this is what I am going to do. My FMIC covers 75 percent of my condenser and radiator. So it is not getting good flow through the condenser and radiator. I will be using the mechanical fan and then add a pusher type fan on the condenser. That way it will push air through the condenser from the outside air so you will have the mechanical fan drawing air from the front of the radiator and the condenser fan pushing air through the condenser and into the radiator thus feeding it more outside air that it can not get due to the restriction in flow from the front of the car with the Inter-cooler in the way. this should work I hope.



This is what i was thinking after i hit post. My FMIC also takes up 75% the only fix i can see is getting the PBM High Mount. When was the last time you had your A/C charged?

I hope you get it fixed

[KiLLeR2001]

After my clutch fan flew apart on my old 240 (KA24DE) late at night driving home from work, and left me stranded, I vowed from that day forward I would never return to the clutch fan. Bought Altima fans and wired them up to ignition on and I've yet to have a cooling problem. I have 75% distilled water, 20% coolant and like 5% water wetter lol.

ps. I wouldn't run your fans always on unless its a summer car like mine. Whenever the temp dips below 50F, in the garage it stays :)

[jamanrr]

This is what i was thinking after i hit post. My FMIC also takes up 75% the only fix i can see is getting the PBM High Mount. When was the last time you had your A/C charged?

I hope you get it fixed


Alright well I drove the car this evening and the air con was cold again. It was not ICE cold but cold enough to make my cheeks cold like good ac does. I think when it gets super hot like 100 degrees with 100 humidity all ac can only do so much but my fans are not cooling the radiator and condenser enough. Instead it is pushing hot air around the engine bay and losing all kinds of efficiency. I will do my fan swap to see if I can not get the engine to cool better and do an ac fan on the radiator or the condenser. I will then get the a/c topped off with freon and hope all is good again.

[handinpants]

i have to chime in regarding the ac, at 100 degrees, it can only cool soo much, and we are pissed and hot already, that the weaksauce "cold air" that comes out, always feels like it is not cold enough, but come night time it gets better

[jamanrr]

got the viscous clutch fan back on. it moves a hella lot more air 95 degrees with 90 percent humidity it never went above 83 degrees C or 181 degrees F which is good. It looks like a lot better plus the rolling idle is gone. It idles better. I will add the shroud soon and bet it can do even better. Clutch fan FTW

[fliprayzin240sx]

K I'm confused by your whole post as far as what you're trying to achive. Are you trying to keep your engine temp down or your AC to work better?!?! Those are 2 completely different animals.

If you want to get your AC to run cooler, have a shop check your freon out, better yet, get the whole thing serviced. See if everything is good, make sure your condenser is not clogged.

If your engine temp doesnt get that high, your AC running shitty isnt because you dont have enough airflow cooling down the rad and condenser.

My car is opposite of yours. It creeps up to 100 during the summer when i'm stuck in traffic with the AC. I have a Greddy Rad with a FAL twin on it, an R33 pusher fan in front of the condenser and billion thermostat with 5 holes on it, my shit still runs hot in the summer. I'm planning on going back to the stock shroud/mech fan setup. Hopefully itll push my temp down then...

[jamanrr]

K I'm confused by your whole post as far as what you're trying to achive. Are you trying to keep your engine temp down or your AC to work better?!?! Those are 2 completely different animals.

If you want to get your AC to run cooler, have a shop check your freon out, better yet, get the whole thing serviced. See if everything is good, make sure your condenser is not clogged.

If your engine temp doesnt get that high, your AC running shitty isnt because you dont have enough airflow cooling down the rad and condenser.

My car is opposite of yours. It creeps up to 100 during the summer when i'm stuck in traffic with the AC. I have a Greddy Rad with a FAL twin on it, an R33 pusher fan in front of the condenser and billion thermostat with 5 holes on it, my shit still runs hot in the summer. I'm planning on going back to the stock shroud/mech fan setup. Hopefully itll push my temp down then...

I bet in your environment with the stock clutch fan and shroud you will run 10 degrees cooler. I am going to get my front bumper repainted, get my greddy front lip installed, pull the shity electric fans off my radiator, install factory sr20det s14 shroud, clean the condenser really good, buy a syclone pusher fan and place it on front of the condenser, then put everything back together, and get the a/c serviced just to make sure it has no leaks or will blow colder. I looked at the factory service manual and it states at 100 degrees the factory a/c should blow 81 ish degrees. That is not very cold for that ambient temperature. Maybe nothing wrong with the a/c at all.

There is a day and night difference between what the clutch fan blows and what any electric fan ever could. It would take a 350 horsepower electric fan to equal it. LOL

from what i understand as well, if you flow more air over your condenser, it will make the a/c cooler as well as pull more air through the radiator. Effective cooling and efficient a/c operation go hand in hand. As long as everything is fully function in your a/c system.

[Propaganda]

Then do some ducting?

[murda-c]

get a condenser sprayer lol.

[jamanrr]

Right now I am running the clutch fan no shroud with the two electric fans in 100 degree F heat it does not go above 180 ish degrees F-- love it.

[!Zar!]

The best setup is to run a clutch/viscous fan and a shroud.

I'd say run that as long as you can until your setup doesn't allow you to. Then of course you will have no choice but to run an e-fan.

Running a clutch/viscous fan without running a shroud is just a waste. The ducting is what helps make it so efficient.

[fliprayzin240sx]

I went back to an S14 shroud/clutch fan with the S14 efan, also running an R33 pusher in front of the AC condenser. I still have my FAL fan controller, so I'm running the S14 Efan thats inside the shroud to it.

Only issue I got right now is that my Defi water temp sensor is being iffy. Keeps reading around 60 degrees when the water temp is actually around 78 according to the PFC.

[jamanrr]

I went back to an S14 shroud/clutch fan with the S14 efan, also running an R33 pusher in front of the AC condenser. I still have my FAL fan controller, so I'm running the S14 Efan thats inside the shroud to it.

Only issue I got right now is that my Defi water temp sensor is being iffy. Keeps reading around 60 degrees when the water temp is actually around 78 according to the PFC.


a lot cooler though right? Do you notice a huge difference with the pusher condenser fan on your setup for the a/c? does it make it blow cooler air out? I have thought about doing that but the factory option was to use a small Efan on the radiator pulling air through the condenser for the a/c.

[fliprayzin240sx]

Well, today was pretty hot and my car stayed around 78-82 with the AC on. I wont really know till I start tracking it. Usually with my old setup, it would hit 100-105 in less than 10 mins of being out there.

The biggest thing I noticed after I put everything back on was how much air I can feel being pulled into the front. Definitely alot more air getting sucked in. AC definitely felt alot colder, specially once I turn on the 2nd Efan thats inside the shroud.

[tre4s13]

altima fans + thermo/fan switch > flexalittle > mechanical fan

[jamanrr]

altima fans + thermo/fan switch > flexalittle > mechanical fan


says the rookie. No they are not. I ran them for around 6 months and Altima fans do not cool as well. way to TROLL, :bowrofl:

[fliprayzin240sx]

altima fans + thermo/fan switch > flexalittle > mechanical fan

Been there, done that...wanna know whats better than Altima fans??? FD RX-7 fans...fans built to cool down rotaries that are hotter than anything nissan has.

[stunnaben]

says the rookie. No they are not. I ran them for around 6 months and Altima fans do not cool as well. way to TROLL, :bowrofl:

Homeboy's not trolling.... I know him, he knows what he's talking about. His car runs COLD as shit... it has a hard time staying warm..... kidding but seriously his car I don't think has the potential to overheat. He starts his car and it sounds like a damn jet cutting on with the fans blowing.

[jamanrr]

Homeboy's not trolling.... I know him, he knows what he's talking about. His car runs COLD as shit... it has a hard time staying warm..... kidding but seriously his car I don't think has the potential to overheat. He starts his car and it sounds like a damn jet cutting on with the fans blowing.


I am familiar with the Altima fans. I ran them and they do work better than the 12 inch electronic fans that I run on the radiator but when I switched back to the clutch fan. The whole engine bay feels a lot cooler than it was. It flows a lot more air and I do not even have the shroud on it yet. I will be doing some work soon. It will be interesting to see how much cooler I can get it. 90-100 degrees C is running too warm for what I want.

[!Zar!]

Homeboy's not trolling.... I know him, he knows what he's talking about. His car runs COLD as shit... it has a hard time staying warm..... kidding but seriously his car I don't think has the potential to overheat. He starts his car and it sounds like a damn jet cutting on with the fans blowing.

That isn't a good thing.

An engine that is too cold will cause damage, just as much as one overheating.

[nismoracingsx]

I run the FAL duals on my coupe and never have problems here in georgia.
Good package to get the fans w/ shroud and included thermostatic controller box thingy ;p.

I only upgrade once my clutch fan exploded and clutch was dead neways.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it?

Btw, are there any other fan blades to be had for the stock setup?

Just curious. Sorry to thread jack.

[jamanrr]

Well, today was pretty hot and my car stayed around 78-82 with the AC on. I wont really know till I start tracking it. Usually with my old setup, it would hit 100-105 in less than 10 mins of being out there.

The biggest thing I noticed after I put everything back on was how much air I can feel being pulled into the front. Definitely alot more air getting sucked in. AC definitely felt alot colder, specially once I turn on the 2nd Efan thats inside the shroud.


yeah cool. What kind of cfm is that electronic rad fan pulling? I have everything pulled apart and am looking at it. Going with the NISMO thermostat, clutch fan shroud combo and can not decide how to do the electronic a/c fan. I think the best design would be to use it by placing it within the clutch fan shroud. That way it is sucking cool air through the radiator and condenser at the same time. I do not really like having it wired up to the a/c so I can control it with a switch in the cabin. That way I get cooling when the car is off but using the switch. The only thing is the a/c fan only flows 980 cfm is that enough to work as an a/c fan or should I get something higher. I have some cheap fans that say they flow 1500 cfm but I really do not believe that -- there needs to be some industry standard.

[ejmetcalf]

i believe in my a/c class (and this was a while back) they said a good a/c would cool a cabin temp by 20 degrees

also had a question for your fan clutch lovers can you feel any power loss when it kicks in?
reason is when i was running the old ka24e the fan clutch exploded on me one day so i got a 14in e fan had to cut it down to fit on the radiator but the point is it felt like i had a lot less drag on the engine and i could mantain 120mph

[jamanrr]

i believe in my a/c class (and this was a while back) they said a good a/c would cool a cabin temp by 20 degrees

also had a question for your fan clutch lovers can you feel any power loss when it kicks in?
reason is when i was running the old ka24e the fan clutch exploded on me one day so i got a 14in e fan had to cut it down to fit on the radiator but the point is it felt like i had a lot less drag on the engine and i could mantain 120mph


depends, on a ka24e it probably would feel a lot greater than on an engine that makes more power. You just do not notice it as much. It feels like it lost a little but it runs better, idles better, and cools better.

[Om1kron]

ford taurus fan, huge amped relay, just wire in high speed. bam. I run mine on low and my car only gets up to 90c after hard running, normally sits at 75c in 70-80 degree weather in california, on 100 degree days 90c is the ticket.

[jamanrr]

ford taurus fan, huge amped relay, just wire in high speed. bam. I run mine on low and my car only gets up to 90c after hard running, normally sits at 75c in 70-80 degree weather in california, on 100 degree days 90c is the ticket.


YOU KNOW THAT IS NICE AND EVERYTHING BUT AGAIN THIS THREAD IS NOT AN ELECTRONIC VS CLUTCH FAN COMPARISON.

It is for people that have switched from electronic fans to the viscous clutch fan. Not a debate on which one is better because I have been there and done that. Taurus fans and electronic fans are good and I am sure can be as good as clutch fans but there has to be a reason why formula drift tuners run clutch fans still and their cars get the most heat out of any because they track them.

[jamanrr]

not to bump my own thread. I did work on the fan shroud today and it was a huge pain in the ass. I replace the foam that sits behind the radiator as well hoping to get better air flow there. I did have to cut the shroud though because my a/c dryer was sitting in the way. I just cut an insert away so the dryer can set inside the shroud a little. DO not know if it gets hot or not but a little cool will help it COOL better? I also cleaned the condenser and front mount while it set on the car. Not too dirty but every little bit helps. After about 2 hours of 10 test fittings, I finally got everything together. Today was one of the hottest days on record. 100 degrees with a 100 percent humidity felt like 110-115. I started it up and let it idle for 30 - 40 minutes. I also replace the factory Nissan 76.5 * C thermostat with a 62* C Nismo one. It opened at 62 C and the car idled in that mode for 40 minutes. It stayed around 68* C when I turned on the a/c it blew Ice Cold since I use a flex a lite fan for the condenser. It went up to 71 * C and stayed there with the a/c on full blast. I put my hand in the front of the car and it sucked it straight to the condenser coil. Not really but it felt like one of those big ass shop fans that are like 6 feet tall. It moves a lot more air. The flex a lites are nice as well but while this setup makes it a lot harder to get to stuff, it is definitely worth it IMO. Now to do more testing and tracking or drag racing in full boost pulls to test it further.

I now see why formula D professionals use this setup. NICE.

[slider2828]

I am glad my suggestion helps LOL.... On the track it actually runs COOLER than on the street or freeway. WHen I was running my setup my track temps at 85 degrees ambien and probably 90 on the track, I was running 62* on my pfc at the beginning then cavitation happens at the end of the day. SERIOUSLY! I love my clutch.....

But if you track a LOT and you only drive 5500 to 7000, cavitation is really bad at the end of the day. Swirl pot and Stance oversized water pulley is a must but definitely runs easily 2-4 degrees hotter on the street....

[codyace]

I'm still confused as how people have cooling issues, as anything I've touched/built never has.

Altima Fans
Stance PUlley
All of the OE trays
Upper Cooling Panel
Z32 Rad Cap
Aluminum Radiator

Honestly, when you are at speed, the fan type makes zero difference, as I'd be willing to bet total airflow across the rad is greater than the fans capacity. I may be wrong though, but I'd find that hard to believe.

I run one altima fan on low speed all the time...this helps pull air through the engine bay, REGARDLESS of the radiator needing that flow all the time or not. It's not going to make it extra cool, as the thermostat is still closed at the same time. So at 180 degrees, the water ready to rush in, is already going to be chilled slightly, and at the same time you're flowing air into the engine bay/through the engine bay, helping remove heat (much like a mechanical fan would)

I use a Derale switch, that comes on at 180* (thermo temp) and switches both altima fans to high speed. On track days, my car never EVER gets hot...and I use two water temp gauges to make sure, and verify with the conzult as well.

In the end, the stock mechanical fan is big, clumsy, and IMO gets in the way of any sort of basic work. Sure they work great, and blah blah blah, but if you own any sort of track car, it's often crucial to get stuff fixed/repaired in a short time...and often times working around that fan is counter productive...

[jamanrr]

I'm still confused as how people have cooling issues, as anything I've touched/built never has.

Altima Fans
Stance PUlley
All of the OE trays
Upper Cooling Panel
Z32 Rad Cap
Aluminum Radiator

Honestly, when you are at speed, the fan type makes zero difference, as I'd be willing to bet total airflow across the rad is greater than the fans capacity. I may be wrong though, but I'd find that hard to believe.

I run one altima fan on low speed all the time...this helps pull air through the engine bay, REGARDLESS of the radiator needing that flow all the time or not. It's not going to make it extra cool, as the thermostat is still closed at the same time. So at 180 degrees, the water ready to rush in, is already going to be chilled slightly, and at the same time you're flowing air into the engine bay/through the engine bay, helping remove heat (much like a mechanical fan would)

I use a Derale switch, that comes on at 180* (thermo temp) and switches both altima fans to high speed. On track days, my car never EVER gets hot...and I use two water temp gauges to make sure, and verify with the conzult as well.

In the end, the stock mechanical fan is big, clumsy, and IMO gets in the way of any sort of basic work. Sure they work great, and blah blah blah, but if you own any sort of track car, it's often crucial to get stuff fixed/repaired in a short time...and often times working around that fan is counter productive...


I am not going to get into an internet e-thug fight here but professional drifters especially all the Japan guys run these fans and shrouds. It is physics. A larger shroud combined with a proper pitched and nice fan will pull a lot more air than 2 electronic fans setting on a radiator. I know altima fans because I use to run a set. Again, I never over heated but it is not just the radiator that is cooling it is the whole engine bay. The intake piping running close to the fan and the actual valve cover. I could not put my hand on the valve cover before after the car was at normal operating temperatures but with the shroud clutch combination, I can. It is a personal preference and that is all. Great I am glad you like your electronic setup and also noticed that you did not post what temps you are running at?

I am guessing the operational temperature of your SR would drop anywhere from 10-15 degrees with the use of the clutch fan combo. I for one did not like my car operation at 85-95 degrees Celsius all the time. So, I came up with a way that was available, to make this work for me. If my temps drop by that 10-15 degrees that makes it worth it.

I mean this in no way as a knock on you or your car but I seriously sometimes doubt the credibility of this forum? Between your posts and the deletion of negative product comments from a forum sponsor. It all makes me wonder about this community? There is a REAL difference between an s14 and a s13 owner. Maybe that is because around 200 thousand s13s hit the United States and they are like Nissan's RWD 'Civic'. Less than 30 thousand s14s where ever brought here. I believe in quality parts and top notch products for my car. Then again the intention of this thread was to discuss the Clutch Fan and Shroud combination as an alternative to electronic fans. Not meant to be a discussion on I have electronic fans and they work because well ' I know everything'.....

[codyace]

I am not going to get into an internet e-thug fight here but professional drifters especially all the Japan guys run these fans and shrouds. It is physics. A larger shroud combined with a proper pitched and nice fan will pull a lot more air than 2 electronic fans setting on a radiator. I know altima fans because I use to run a set. Again, I never over heated but it is not just the radiator that is cooling it is the whole engine bay. The intake piping running close to the fan and the actual valve cover. I could not put my hand on the valve cover before after the car was at normal operating temperatures but with the shroud clutch combination, I can. It is a personal preference and that is all. Great I am glad you like your electronic setup and also noticed that you did not post what temps you are running at?

When I get home I"ll get you some logs to see. Unlike you're scientific hand thermometer and 'always right drifter' source, I do track my car often and can bring you up results. Off the top of my head usually around 200* is the hotest it gets

I am guessing the operational temperature of your SR would drop anywhere from 10-15 degrees with the use of the clutch fan combo. I for one did not like my car operation at 85-95 degrees Celsius all the time. So, I came up with a way that was available, to make this work for me. If my temps drop by that 10-15 degrees that makes it worth it.

180-200 is where these engines should run when being beat on. You want a degree of heat in the engines, as they are designed to be aspecific operating temps. If the stock thermo is designed to begin letting coolant flow at 180 degrees, than 185-200 is expected when exiting the head and returning to the radiator, as it's just absorbed heat from the engine.


I mean this in no way as a knock on you or your car but I seriously sometimes doubt the credibility of this forum? Between your posts and the deletion of negative product comments from a forum sponsor. It all makes me wonder about this community? There is a REAL difference between an s14 and a s13 owner. Maybe that is because around 200 thousand s13s hit the United States and they are like Nissan's RWD 'Civic'. Less than 30 thousand s14s where ever brought here. I believe in quality parts and top notch products for my car. Then again the intention of this thread was to discuss the Clutch Fan and Shroud combination as an alternative to electronic fans. Not meant to be a discussion on I have electronic fans and they work because well ' I know everything'.....


I've probably got more into my custom coilver setup than you have into your entire car. If you want to doubt my ability, that's fine...It certainly doesn't effect me in the least. But when you want to act like your shit doesn't stink, I do have an issue. All your doing is quoting drift cars you've seen on videos, without posting any real world results during a track day. Also, what are you talking about from my posts and deleting comments? I can't delete anything, I'm not a moderator??

[jamanrr]

When I get home I"ll get you some logs to see. Unlike you're scientific hand thermometer and 'always right drifter' source, I do track my car often and can bring you up results. Off the top of my head usually around 200* is the hotest it gets



180-200 is where these engines should run when being beat on. You want a degree of heat in the engines, as they are designed to be aspecific operating temps. If the stock thermo is designed to begin letting coolant flow at 180 degrees, than 185-200 is expected when exiting the head and returning to the radiator, as it's just absorbed heat from the engine.




I've probably got more into my custom coilver setup than you have into your entire car. If you want to doubt my ability, that's fine...It certainly doesn't effect me in the least. But when you want to act like your shit doesn't stink, I do have an issue. All your doing is quoting drift cars you've seen on videos, without posting any real world results during a track day. Also, what are you talking about from my posts and deleting comments? I can't delete anything, I'm not a moderator??

You do not disappoint. :eek2:

Again, why did you FAIL up my thread? I have heard and know that the SR loves to get hot and supposedly operates at an optimal range in the 180-200 degree range. I just want to make sure I am on the 180 degree end. It does make a difference since the RWD SR was engineered to have a clutch fan setup. I have ran my car in the 200 to 210 degree range and it sucks. It gets hot in the cabin, hot in the bay and the oil pressure will drop as well as the oil loses viscosity. The coil over comment is especially funny since your coil-overs would not equal my turbo or my leather interior. Pick One.

The comment about a forum sponsor did not pertain to you so do not get so up tight but again not everyone especially who does motor swaps would even think about keeping their clutch fan but let me ask you this?

what will cool better or be more effective? A fan being driven by engine revolution via a pump working off a 350-400 horsepower motor? Or two electronic motors being driven off a 12volt power system and creating additional load and strain on your electrical system?

even if the mechanical fan pulls 1 or 2 percent off the engine it would still be far superior to an electronic motor putting out 20-30 amps or maybe even 60 amps.

[ejmetcalf]

whoa budy dont hate on me cause i dont have a fancy s14 with a perfectly positioned shroud and a engine driven fan.

[jamanrr]

whoa budy dont hate on me cause i dont have a fancy s14 with a perfectly positioned shroud and a engine driven fan.


then make a significant post about having a mechanical fan and do not turn it into a debate on why electronic fans are better. Oh and it was a royal pain in the ass and is another royal pain in the ass to have to work around it. You have to drain the coolant and remove the shroud and radiator as one piece just to change a belt. It is not for everyone and that is not what I am saying but it does make your engine bay look better plus you can put neat drift-o stickers on the shroud to make it look better. It is just an alternative to electronic fans and you will need to make your own mind up on what you want to run. I too was closed minded to it once but then this guy on NICO opened my eyes to it and then I saw what it could do and was impressed and tried it. So, far so good but that does not mean I might not go back to some electronic fans in the future. As everyone should know on here, peoples cars tend to change all the time.

[ejmetcalf]

then make a significant post about having a mechanical fan and do not turn it into a debate on why electronic fans are better.

there is nothing significant about a engine driven fan its old technoligy. you know like a prop plane

but thats not why i posted, i posted because you insulted my car

[jamanrr]

there is nothing significant about a engine driven fan its old technoligy. you know like a prop plane

but thats not why i posted, i posted because you insulted my car


sorry I did not mean to insult your car. I love s13s and all 240s. Have been thinking about getting another 240 and it being a s13 hatchback. No insult was intended other than there are more s13s out there and that they are easier to come by.

My Bad.

[codyace]

You do not disappoint

I assumed my post would trounce any of your thoughts, so I took advantage.


Again, why did you FAIL up my thread? I have heard and know that the SR loves to get hot and supposedly operates at an optimal range in the 180-200 degree range. I just want to make sure I am on the 180 degree end. It does make a difference since the RWD SR was engineered to have a clutch fan setup.

Oh yes, Nissan also engineered the cars to not have coilovers, bigger turbos, or many things...yet we all modify them. What's really your point?

Well obviously the lower the better. Let me ask this, where is your water temp gauge at in the system? I have two, just wondering where you placed yours.

I have ran my car in the 200 to 210 degree range and it sucks. It gets hot in the cabin, hot in the bay and the oil pressure will drop as well as the oil loses viscosity.

Oil will break down at 180 as well if you're on track for 30 minutes straight of WOT. I've never had an issue at 200 for 4 years now of HPDE events. I guess I should go back to that shroud and airplane propeller right?

I know I know..the drifters use them...so they are always right. :duh:







The coil over comment is especially funny since your coil-overs would not equal my turbo or my leather interior. Pick One.

I'd be willing to bet just my 8611's were worth more than your turbo, and you can buy leather seats for less than the custom housings, hardware, tops/hats/plates. I could go on all day, but you're the expert and should know better than this

Leather interior? LOL. That's the last thing I'd want on track. Even if they were cloth those seats are terrible. I've got 2 GTR seats and 2 OMP seats with bride sliders for track days and tag alongs. Guess my seats are really worth more than your stuff again. My turbo is a bullshit 2871r, that probably makes more power than your overpriced 30r.

(PS: Who cares what stuff is worth, my car is a reliable track car...so it doesn't impress you, big woop - I built it for myself)


what will cool better or be more effective? A fan being driven by engine revolution via a pump working off a 350-400 horsepower motor? Or two electronic motors being driven off a 12volt power system and creating additional load and strain on your electrical system?

The parasitic loss from the clutch fan has been proven to pull more power than an electric fan setup, regardless of it's base power or percieved power. Look at a big rig diesel even...when that fan comes on, you're loosing quite a bit of power. Sure it cools, but man does it drain power out...so really, do you really want to keep going with this conversation? I'm not sure how long you're going to "float" vs someone with experience. Seems like you don't like being corrected.

FWIW: I recently ditched the stock alternator anyway. With the ignition system, the meth pump, and the twin fuel pumps, I went with the 125amp quest one. Ever logged your car with everything going on the stock setup? Scary with a car makig power.

even if the mechanical fan pulls 1 or 2 percent off the engine it would still be far superior to an electronic motor putting out 20-30 amps or maybe even 60 amps.

LOL.

[jamanrr]

Oil will break down at 180 as well if you're on track for 30 minutes straight of WOT. I've never had an issue at 200 for 4 years now of HPDE events. I guess I should go back to that shroud and airplane propeller right?

I know I know..the drifters use them...so they are always right. :duh:



Nope, never said that run what you want but who knows I might switch back come winter if it keeps it too cold.



I'd be willing to bet just my 8611's were worth more than your turbo, and you can buy leather seats for less than the custom housings, hardware, tops/hats/plates. I could go on all day, but you're the expert and should know better than this

Leather interior? LOL. That's the last thing I'd want on track. Even if they were cloth those seats are terrible. I've got 2 GTR seats and 2 OMP seats with bride sliders for track days and tag alongs. Guess my seats are really worth more than your stuff again. My turbo is a bullshit 2871r, that probably makes more power than your overpriced 30r.

(PS: Who cares what stuff is worth, my car is a reliable track car...so it doesn't impress you, big woop - I built it for myself)


and I am sure it fits your needs well. My goal however was to build a comfortable street car. All my accessories work from a/c, cruise control, to the freaking window shield wiper reservoir. Not many sr swapped 240s can say that.



The parasitic loss from the clutch fan has been proven to pull more power than an electric fan setup, regardless of it's base power or percieved power. Look at a big rig diesel even...when that fan comes on, you're loosing quite a bit of power. Sure it cools, but man does it drain power out...so really, do you really want to keep going with this conversation? I'm not sure how long you're going to "float" vs someone with experience. Seems like you don't like being corrected.


I bet I would not lose any more than 2 to 3 percent over the power range if that. It makes the car run better and idle better.


FWIW: I recently ditched the stock alternator anyway. With the ignition system, the meth pump, and the twin fuel pumps, I went with the 125amp quest one. Ever logged your car with everything going on the stock setup? Scary with a car makig power.


See point proven.
LOL.[/quote]

[codyace]

Nope, never said that run what you want but who knows I might switch back come winter if it keeps it too cold.

Explain how it would keep it cool below 180, being that the thermostat opens there?


and I am sure it fits your needs well. My goal however was to build a comfortable street car. All my accessories work from a/c, cruise control, to the freaking window shield wiper reservoir. Not many sr swapped 240s can say that.

Yawn, my 'track car' has had all of those options since doing the swap ages ago. Since you want to 'pick pennies' does your Consult port work?


I bet I would not lose any more than 2 to 3 percent over the power range if that. It makes the car run better and idle better.

So why not prove your point, and find information comparing parasitic loss of the clutch fan, vs current draw of the electric setup. I'd love to know (seriously) if you could find any information on it. Sure my 'retort' may be basic, but most 'race' cars don't run clutch fans, neither do any new RWD motors. If the clutch fan was truley the better option, why wouldn't we see them on the newer cars? Again, I may not have any scientific poof at the moment for you, but I couldn't begin to tell you the last timke I saw a clutch type fan on any sort of performance oriented car.


See point proven.


What point, that my meth injection, ignition amp, and fans overpower the stock alternator? I guess I should get rid of them, reduce power, and put the stock fan back on. That would be best, that's how Nissan engineered the engine 20 years ago :rolleyes:

[jamanrr]

Explain how it would keep it cool below 180, being that the thermostat opens there?

I run a NISMO thermostat and it opens at 143.6 degrees F. Please quote in Celsius it is making my head hurt.



Yawn, my 'track car' has had all of those options since doing the swap ages ago. Since you want to 'pick pennies' does your Consult port work?



Great if it does but I doubt. So, all your accessories works today? including cruise and the windshield washer? I run a Power FC, why would I want or need my consult to work?


So why not prove your point, and find information comparing parasitic loss of the clutch fan, vs current draw of the electric setup. I'd love to know (seriously) if you could find any information on it. Sure my 'retort' may be basic, but most 'race' cars don't run clutch fans, neither do any new RWD motors. If the clutch fan was truley the better option, why wouldn't we see them on the newer cars? Again, I may not have any scientific poof at the moment for you, but I couldn't begin to tell you the last timke I saw a clutch type fan on any sort of performance oriented car.


dude, seriously, All corvettes, camaros and mustangs have ran clutch fans for ever. They may not now because some of the electronic fan technology is good. Again, this is not why it would not make sense. I am happy with the way it works and plus I get to put stickers on the shroud. Making it more JDM than You. Is that is what you wanted to know?



What point, that my meth injection, ignition amp, and fans overpower the stock alternator? I guess I should get rid of them, reduce power, and put the stock fan back on. That would be best, that's how Nissan engineered the engine 20 years ago :rolleyes:

Your setup probably would not allow you to do it. Again it is a great setup for me but probably not you. Again, why do you continue to post in my thread? I seriously doubt the loss is anything to make a noticeable difference. Again, it is up to you. We are all here to learn. I am happy with my setup you are happy with yours this was a discussion to see how well the clutch fan would do as compared to the electronic fans. It was not or needed to be a debate on which one is better. Just an experiment basically since 99 percent of all 240sx swapped owners do not use the clutch fan,

[Slayde]

I run stock a clutch fan on my lowly stock S13 with KA24de and have had electric fans before and overheated. Although my going back to stock clutch fan had more to do with my budget than efficiency IMO I think the stock clutch fans are... by the numbers more efficient at cooling a STOCK motor otherwise they would not equip the car with them from the factory... That being said for modded/swapped cars, trucks, whatever you need to find something that fits and works for what you need it to do...

I do think that comparing all S13s and their owners to those of civics is a bit extreme and stuck up. There are people like that that own S14s and even rarer cars but... none of that matters apparently... both an s14 and s13 owners have entered a cock fight to see who is bigger... on a forum :rofl:...

Where's the popcorn?:drama:

[jamanrr]

I run stock a clutch fan on my lowly stock S13 with KA24de and have had electric fans before and overheated. Although my going back to stock clutch fan had more to do with my budget than efficiency IMO I think the stock clutch fans are... by the numbers more efficient at cooling a STOCK motor otherwise they would not equip the car with them from the factory... That being said for modded/swapped cars, trucks, whatever you need to find something that fits and works for what you need it to do...

I do think that comparing all S13s and their owners to those of civics is a bit extreme and stuck up. There are people like that that own S14s and even rarer cars but... none of that matters apparently... both an s14 and s13 owners have entered a cock fight to see who is bigger... on a forum :rofl:...

Where's the popcorn?:drama:

I did not mean anything the way you s13 guys took it. It is just numbers, the s13s are a lot easier to come by and if you go to a drift event something like 10 - 20 percent of all the 240sxs there are s14s. Just not many of them and if I wanted to build a drift car then I would use the s13 hatch chassis. That was not the debate and yeah the stock fan shroud combo is cheaper but that was not the point either. It was to see how well they do.

[Slayde]

I know I know just pokin the bear haha. I am in AR too and damn it is hot a sh** but me clutch fan does fine 190 with the AC and 180 without @ 95-100F. Sorry I don't have any efan numbers. Plus I don't have a turboed SR or an S14... so it really doesn't matter. I wont clutter up your thread anymore haha

[codyace]

I run a NISMO thermostat and it opens at 143.6 degrees F. Please quote in Celsius it is making my head hurt.

I'll quote in Farenheight as it's the standard I follow. Plus that's what my logs read, and that's what my gauge reads, so being a simpleton, that's what I use.

PS: Why the low thermostat, that's REDICULOUS on a street car in regard to proper operating temps. Your car must be super sluggish with the timing being so soft due to low CTS value.



Great if it does but I doubt. So, all your accessories works today? including cruise and the windshield washer? I run a Power FC, why would I want or need my consult to work?

All of mine have always worked. I developed AC bracket conversion kits for our cars, of course I run my own product. I swear by cruise control too, I've since removed it for the time being (sold the other TB locally) as I'm going Q45 on mine (which will also have cruise).

And yes the washers work just fine, intermittant and all. I got the wiring done by Yuri @ Wiring Specialities.

And the consult is nice for the rest of us running stock based ECU's. Again, penny picking as we say.



dude, seriously, All corvettes, camaros and mustangs have ran clutch fans for ever. They may not now because some of the electronic fan technology is good. Again, this is not why it would not make sense. I am happy with the way it works and plus I get to put stickers on the shroud. Making it more JDM than You. Is that is what you wanted to know?

I know they do - I've owned plenty of them. Heck my father has a 69 Mach, my brother is restoring one, I've had fox bodies, my brother has a fox, my mom even drives a '10 GT. I've played with mechanical fans forever, and they are junk. Every single of the above cars (aside from my fathers) has eletric fans now, and all run better than ever. I know a thing or two about cars....while you may think otherwise, the reality is that I know I've played with such a variety of cars, that I could baffle you from the get go. Quit pretending to know.

But you last comment sums up why you really have these opinions. Quit riding Option Magazine's nuts and form an opinion from experience, not from what you think.




Just an experiment basically since 99 percent of all 240sx swapped owners do not use the clutch fan,

YOu're basically trying to make your opinion the better one. Experiment on stuff that's been covered by other OG members before you even owned your car. E Fans are the way to go. 60-80 dollars total for a better setup, easier to work around, and proven effective? Sure.

Quit trying to confuse newer members, and just end. I'm here trying to give a good retort to your 'ideas', so learn to except some difference in opinion. Clutch fan is fine for stock. If you are making any sort of power, why bother.

[jamanrr]

I'll quote in Farenheight as it's the standard I follow. Plus that's what my logs read, and that's what my gauge reads, so being a simpleton, that's what I use.

PS: Why the low thermostat, that's REDICULOUS on a street car in regard to proper operating temps. Your car must be super sluggish with the timing being so soft due to low CTS value.


No not at all. It runs fine. It is a NISMO thermostat so it looks just like the OEM one that came out instead of saying 76.5 degrees C it states 62* C. Put it in my self. It just opens sooner allowing more coolant to flow earlier. Remind me why a thermostat would have anything to do with the timing? The thermostat opens allows coolant to flow through the block and returns to the raditor where it is cooled then back into the motor again.



All of mine have always worked. I developed AC bracket conversion kits for our cars, of course I run my own product. I swear by cruise control too, I've since removed it for the time being (sold the other TB locally) as I'm going Q45 on mine (which will also have cruise).

Is that a quality product like Duestche werks sells?


And yes the washers work just fine, intermittant and all. I got the wiring done by Yuri @ Wiring Specialities.

And the consult is nice for the rest of us running stock based ECU's. Again, penny picking as we say.




Yuri does great work and is a good guy. He did my wiring as well.




But you last comment sums up why you really have these opinions. Quit riding Option Magazine's nuts and form an opinion from experience, not from what you think.

YOu're basically trying to make your opinion the better one. Experiment on stuff that's been covered by other OG members before you even owned your car. E Fans are the way to go. 60-80 dollars total for a better setup, easier to work around, and proven effective? Sure.

Quit trying to confuse newer members, and just end. I'm here trying to give a good retort to your 'ideas', so learn to except some difference in opinion. Clutch fan is fine for stock. If you are making any sort of power, why bother.


I have owned both and I would say the mechanical fan with a small syclone 12 inch fan combo works great. Do what you want to your car since it is your car. I just wanted to see if I could lower the temps down a little from where they were and so far it looks like I did it. I have had my car for 6 years now and owned a 1996 Nissan 240sx in 1997 so this is my second 240. I do not really get into drifting and do not watch it. I put the shroud on and stuck an aspec and flex a lite sticker on it and it looked good so I was like NEAT. How is an actual, factual based observation stating an opinion? If you had any sort of science background then you would realize that you have a hypothesis and then you test that hypothesis through experimentation. No matter how out of wack or not the normal the better result is, it is still the best solution to the problem. That is all I was saying let people draw their own conclusions.

[codyace]

No not at all. It runs fine. It is a NISMO thermostat so it looks just like the OEM one that came out instead of saying 76.5 degrees C it states 62* C. Put it in my self. It just opens sooner allowing more coolant to flow earlier. Remind me why a thermostat would have anything to do with the timing? The thermostat opens allows coolant to flow through the block and returns to the raditor where it is cooled then back into the motor again.

Becuase the engine is 'designed' to work best at 180. Below that threshold the ECU pulls timing via CTS to warm motor up.

Again, that thermostat is useless on the street. Heck even if I had a track car, I'd simply put a big washer in place, and not even run a thermo



Is that a quality product like Duestche werks sells?

I wouldn't support re drilled injectors for my enemies. My stuff fits and works, unlike theirs.



Yuri does great work and is a good guy. He did my wiring as well.


So why clout about how good your car is, when reality is...you went the same route I did.





I have owned both and I would say the mechanical fan with a small syclone 12 inch fan combo works great. Do what you want to your car since it is your car. I just wanted to see if I could lower the temps down a little from where they were and so far it looks like I did it. I have had my car for 6 years now and owned a 1996 Nissan 240sx in 1997 so this is my second 240. I do not really get into drifting and do not watch it. I put the shroud on and stuck an aspec and flex a lite sticker on it and it looked good so I was like NEAT. How is an actual, factual based observation stating an opinion? If you had any sort of science background then you would realize that you have a hypothesis and then you test that hypothesis through experimentation. No matter how out of wack or not the normal the better result is, it is still the best solution to the problem. That is all I was saying let people draw their own conclusions.

My point is, the E fans work just as well, and are easier to work around. Why deal with that clumsy big fan in the way.

[rex2sx]

Ive been reading this thread and while i dont have any inpute nor am i trying to threadjack, i have one question..

My point is, the E fans work just as well, and are easier to work around. Why deal with that clumsy big fan in the way.


Since you say E fans work and Janmarr says they dont. How is it that when he switched over his setup,it now cools better?

Maybe you can provide insight to where he went wrong w/ his previous setup, becuase this is something id like to know. Which is "better"

[jamanrr]

Becuase the engine is 'designed' to work best at 180. Below that threshold the ECU pulls timing via CTS to warm motor up.

Again, that thermostat is useless on the street. Heck even if I had a track car, I'd simply put a big washer in place, and not even run a thermo



Man I would not really know about that. I run hotter cams and it idles around 1000 rpm anyway and at 18.5 lbs of boost it will never not be running cool. That NISMO thermostat looks like a quality product but I do not know first time running it and it was only 55 bucks. I do drag race a lot and run it hard some.


I wouldn't support re drilled injectors for my enemies. My stuff fits and works, unlike theirs.


we agree on something.



So why clout about how good your car is, when reality is...you went the same route I did.


I did not really -- if you know how to get the abs to work then send me some wiring diagrams because I still can not figure it out. I do have z32 brakes at all 4 corners with the automatic brake master cylinder so my brakes bite like crazy and come to a stop on a dime without the abs stuff.





My point is, the E fans work just as well, and are easier to work around. Why deal with that clumsy big fan in the way.

It does make the engine bay look better IMO. It does take up a lot of room and makes things more difficult to get to but I like the way it sounds and the way it cools. Maybe I just had some cheap electric fans or did not give the altima fans there due but the mechanical fan pulls air through it like a sumabitch and it really is a noticeable difference from the electronic fans I have ran. I guess I like being different as well. Who knows like I said if it becomes to much of a pain then I will switch back to the electric fans and my alternator is pulling more consistent current. not in the low 14s now a constant 14.5 unless I use the syclone 392 elctronic but it does not pull as many amps as my 2 cheap electronic fans did.

[jamanrr]

I do not need to quote you again cody ace but I love formulas and scientific calculations

Lets say you take a set of electric fans like some Taurus or Altima fans the most the draw is 60 amps and you have to have a pretty solid relay to keep them going. Alight here is the formula for parasitic loss and the amount of horsepower each would make.

Ex 1.

Taraus and/ or Altima fans drawing 60 amps

A X V =

60 amps X 12 volt system = 720 watts
720 watts x .00134 = .9648 horsepower or one horsepower

Now the mechanical fan is easy you say the parasitic loss is greater than 3 percent which it is usually around 1 to 2 percent.

so 340 whp sr20det at 18 lbs of boost will be running a fan at anywhere from 3.5 to 7 hp vs an electronic fan which barely does 1 hp.

So, the question again given equal measurements and what not. Not counting shrouding and fan pitch which plays a role as well. Which system would be the most efficient in cooling? the mechanical fan will out work the electric fans all day long and do it with little to no electrical draw on the alternator. Again, the purpose was not prove you wrong or talk crazy shite to you but to just explain the mechanics of cooling and how much power the system makes.

[rex2sx]

I do not need to quote you again cody ace but I love formulas and scientific calculations


X2. But remember the .9hp eltrical fan is all the time. Your 7hp mechanical fan is only producing 7hp when your engine is making 340, at a 2% loss anyway, but you already knew this.

So id say maybe 2k+ rpms the mechanical is flowing more air than elettrical, in your case anyway.

[jamanrr]

X2. But remember the .9hp eltrical fan is all the time. Your 7hp mechanical fan is only producing 7hp when your engine is making 340, at a 2% loss anyway, but you already knew this.

So id say maybe 2k+ rpms the mechanical is flowing more air than elettrical, in your case anyway.


I am just using the peak numbers as an example. However you have to realize that the clutch fan on a normal 240sx with the 155 hp ka24de would probably not work as well or rotate the mass as much. if that makes sense

[jamanrr]

Ok here is the completed product

some observations

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/43/photoxt.jpg




some observations. The fan does cool better than electric manly due to shrouding but you can also feel a little power loss on deceal not so bad accelerating since it is making power to move the fan. A little bit more laggy. In 98 degree heat with relative humidity of 80 percent which makes it more like 110, It took a while to warm up due to the NISMO thermostat I am running, which I may have to switch back to a normal one in the winter cause I could see a scenario in which it would be hard to get to normal operating temperature with cooler winter temps.

Anyway it stayed around 89 degrees celsius in this heat and went to 90 when I turned on the syclone fan it when back to 89. That would be an operating temperature of 193ish degrees F close to the 200 operating temperature. Any, this was just completed and wanted to share what the results were in case any one out there was thinking about doing the same thing. Ultimately it was a huge pain in the ass cause I also had the front end repainted and reworked as well but on the other hand in huge ass heat waves it did not get into the 210-220 degree range which is where I was wanting to avoid.

[chituntang]

JDM drifters uses clutch fans because they do not have to swap an SR into their cars. They come with this setup and it works great. Why switching them?

Nismo thermostat does not cool your car better. It opens up the coolant passage to radiator earlier. Your engine will still reach the 180 degree, or higher depends on how you drive. I am not saying it is a piece of sh*t but just not necessary when the OEM unit works just fine.

E-fans vs. clutch fan? Hum, according to the fan test years ago, clutch fan does not run at higher rpm better as engine rpm goes up. At some rpm point the clutch is disengage, and it is because airflow at the speed the car travels outflows what the fan can produce. This is where stock clutch fan is better than aftermarket e-fan solution because in this situation, the clutch fan is off, free spinning by incoming air when the e-fans may stilling run because the thermo switch kept the fans on.

Alright well I drove the car this evening and the air con was cold again. It was not ICE cold but cold enough to make my cheeks cold like good ac does. I think when it gets super hot like 100 degrees with 100 humidity all ac can only do so much but my fans are not cooling the radiator and condenser enough. Instead it is pushing hot air around the engine bay and losing all kinds of efficiency. I will do my fan swap to see if I can not get the engine to cool better and do an ac fan on the radiator or the condenser. I will then get the a/c topped off with freon and hope all is good again.

This is really funny. Lower efficiency because engine bay is hot? Our engine is not air cooled. It is normal that the engine bay is hot when the engine is hot...

I am familiar with the Altima fans. I ran them and they do work better than the 12 inch electronic fans that I run on the radiator but when I switched back to the clutch fan. The whole engine bay feels a lot cooler than it was. It flows a lot more air and I do not even have the shroud on it yet. I will be doing some work soon. It will be interesting to see how much cooler I can get it. 90-100 degrees C is running too warm for what I want.

Clutch fan is on when your car sits, E fan is not. Again, this does not make clutch fan better.



some observations. The fan does cool better than electric manly due to shrouding but you can also feel a little power loss on deceal not so bad accelerating since it is making power to move the fan. A little bit more laggy. In 98 degree heat with relative humidity of 80 percent which makes it more like 110, It took a while to warm up due to the NISMO thermostat I am running, which I may have to switch back to a normal one in the winter cause I could see a scenario in which it would be hard to get to normal operating temperature with cooler winter temps.

Anyway it stayed around 89 degrees celsius in this heat and went to 90 when I turned on the syclone fan it when back to 89. That would be an operating temperature of 193ish degrees F close to the 200 operating temperature. Any, this was just completed and wanted to share what the results were in case any one out there was thinking about doing the same thing. Ultimately it was a huge pain in the ass cause I also had the front end repainted and reworked as well but on the other hand in huge ass heat waves it did not get into the 210-220 degree range which is where I was wanting to avoid.

Again, you said "due to shrouding." So, do you have the result when your e fan setup is right?

You ran a shitty e fan setup and say it is shit, when you run a proper oem setup and say it is great? It's just like SR guys saying KAT sucks because they cannot handle boost as well, but in the real world, they are just as great as each other. A proper e fan setup will be as great as a stock clutch fan setup, plus you have easier access to the front of the engine. But in terms of cooling capability, they are equal if done right.

[jamanrr]

JDM drifters uses clutch fans because they do not have to swap an SR into their cars. They come with this setup and it works great. Why switching them?

Nismo thermostat does not cool your car better. It opens up the coolant passage to radiator earlier. Your engine will still reach the 180 degree, or higher depends on how you drive. I am not saying it is a piece of sh*t but just not necessary when the OEM unit works just fine.

E-fans vs. clutch fan? Hum, according to the fan test years ago, clutch fan does not run at higher rpm better as engine rpm goes up. At some rpm point the clutch is disengage, and it is because airflow at the speed the car travels outflows what the fan can produce. This is where stock clutch fan is better than aftermarket e-fan solution because in this situation, the clutch fan is off, free spinning by incoming air when the e-fans may stilling run because the thermo switch kept the fans on.



This is really funny. Lower efficiency because engine bay is hot? Our engine is not air cooled. It is normal that the engine bay is hot when the engine is hot...



Clutch fan is on when your car sits, E fan is not. Again, this does not make clutch fan better.



Again, you said "due to shrouding." So, do you have the result when your e fan setup is right?

You ran a shitty e fan setup and say it is shit, when you run a proper oem setup and say it is great? It's just like SR guys saying KAT sucks because they cannot handle boost as well, but in the real world, they are just as great as each other. A proper e fan setup will be as great as a stock clutch fan setup, plus you have easier access to the front of the engine. But in terms of cooling capability, they are equal if done right.


What? engrish?

I said that it is up to the user? In my case it cools down around 6-10 degrees Celsius from where my electronic fans cooled. I hit the same temperatures with the "Right Fans" as you call them (Altima fans) as I did with the other e-fans I ran and they have a significant amount of shrouding. I cleaned my condenser and now with the syclone fan combined with the clutch fan/ shroud combo my a/c is a lot cooler. I am not telling people what to run. Run what you want but I can tell you that my mechanical fan setup cools my s14a sr20det better than Altima and el-cheapo electronic fans (that come with the Mishomoto radiator combination) did. It is a fact as I can track temperatures with my Power FC. I really think maybe I should not have used the thermostat but after a few full throttle 18 lb boost runs then it does not matter it will hit the ideal temperature anyway.

It is not an opinion that would be something that has no merit in factual information. I have ran the Altima fans, the misho electronic fans and now the mechanical fans and they cool better than those other two options did on my car.

[Darius]

You're correct. There is no industry standard for disclosing air flow because it would be at a set pressure on both sides of the fan. Get rid of the ebay fans because they are junk.

Spend some good money on Spal or FAL fans. I have 2 12-inch Spal pushers on my condenser on my S14 RB25 and my AC blew cold....until it leaked out of a hose crimp this winter. Doh. Gotta fix it.

[chituntang]

In nowhere I said that you did not get the result you got.

You did a clutch fan swap along with cleaning the condenser and with the syclone fan. And you are comparing this new, clean setup with you old dirty setup. You did not eliminate all the other possible bugs/problems on your old setup. So, you really should not compare the two setup in the first place.

Again, nobody said your setup sucks. Nobody said your setup does not work. I am not here to tell people what to run either. And I am not making shit up either (prove Nismo thermostat cools engine better than oem thermostat).

But your setup is better in what way? When you can lay your hand on the valve cover? Or when your engine is running at 89-90 degree C, which is not even close to 180 degree F (maybe your engine is always overheating with the old setup)?

Oh, in case you cannot understand what I just said: NOBODY SAID YOUR SETUP IS SHITTY. NOBODY SAID YOUR ENGINE IS NOT RUNNING COOLER WITH THE NEW SETUP.

Just stop saying e fan setup is shitty. They are not.

[jamanrr]

In nowhere I said that you did not get the result you got.

You did a clutch fan swap along with cleaning the condenser and with the syclone fan. And you are comparing this new, clean setup with you old dirty setup. You did not eliminate all the other possible bugs/problems on your old setup. So, you really should not compare the two setup in the first place.

Again, nobody said your setup sucks. Nobody said your setup does not work. I am not here to tell people what to run either. And I am not making shit up either (prove Nismo thermostat cools engine better than oem thermostat).

But your setup is better in what way? When you can lay your hand on the valve cover? Or when your engine is running at 89-90 degree C, which is not even close to 180 degree F (maybe your engine is always overheating with the old setup)?

Oh, in case you cannot understand what I just said: NOBODY SAID YOUR SETUP IS SHITTY. NOBODY SAID YOUR ENGINE IS NOT RUNNING COOLER WITH THE NEW SETUP.

Just stop saying e fan setup is shitty. They are not.

I never said that e fans were shitty and where in anything I posted did I say e-fans suck. You do realize as well, that the clutch fan was meant to run with that engine? The idle will stay more constant as well as the temperatures during hard pulls. That is all I am saying. It gets HOT as hell where I live and the temps easily hit 100+ F with 80 to 100 percent humidity during summer days and at a stand still with the old electric fans, the car would overheat eventually after a 30 minutes or so. That is not the case now due to the mechanical fan.

The condenser was pretty clean as well before I switched so I doubt there was much if any benefit there? As far as the NISMO thermostat, it was 50 bucks and it opens at 62 degrees Celsius as compared to 76.x on the other one. It does not make the engine any cooler other than opening the thermostat sooner which makes it take longer to get up to operating temperatures. Who knows what benefits it could make other than if you track the car which I mainly run on the streets anyway.

I will say this, You can get more consistent cooling capabilities out of the old mechanical fan shroud combination. You may experience a little more lag when coming off boost but when you are making your power then it is not so obvious. To me the positives far out weigh the negatives. Then again it is your car and you can do what you want. This was a learning experience for me and that is why I posted it here. I could have saved myself a little money if I would just have made the mechanical fan work from the start instead of having to go through a 3 year learning curve.

on a average hot summer days I would see:

e fan setup: 95 -104 degrees Celsius
mech fan/ shroud with flex a lite small syclone fan: 88-90 sometimes 91 degrees Celsius

which would you choose?

[chituntang]

I stated in the first post that "JDM drifters runs clutch fan because they do not have to swap SR's into their S chassis. I know they have clutch fan stock. I came from Hong Kong where we drive on the opposite side of the road like in Japan, and I have seen plenty of them when I was a kid.

You do not have to keep saying what you said in the other responses you have in this thread, about the difference in temp you log between new and old setup. We all got it.

When you drive above 35mph (my experience is more like 45mph btw), the airflow your car creates outflows either setup we run. So if your car is overheating after driving for a period of time, it is not because of the fan. Ever see a F1 car now a days runs any fans? It is all about ductings, like your fan shroud.

You are using your single experience on your car to dispute people like codyace, which actually tunes/builds cars for people for a living? And you went on and question if he knows his shit or not?

[jamanrr]

I stated in the first post that "JDM drifters runs clutch fan because they do not have to swap SR's into their S chassis. I know they have clutch fan stock. I came from Hong Kong where we drive on the opposite side of the road like in Japan, and I have seen plenty of them when I was a kid.

You do not have to keep saying what you said in the other responses you have in this thread, about the difference in temp you log between new and old setup. We all got it.

When you drive above 35mph (my experience is more like 45mph btw), the airflow your car creates outflows either setup we run. So if your car is overheating after driving for a period of time, it is not because of the fan. Ever see a F1 car now a days runs any fans? It is all about ductings, like your fan shroud.

You are using your single experience on your car to dispute people like codyace, which actually tunes/builds cars for people for a living? And you went on and question if he knows his shit or not?

My car never overheated especially while running. It did one time right after I got the turbo setup tuned in 105 degree heat went into the H zone and wanted to overheat. That was due to stop and go and the supreme heat off the asphalt came through the engine and made it run hotter than it ever has before. It was a one time thing when I had e-fans. I did not question Codyace and thought he was in the military? I may have said somethings but it was just talk like he came back to me on. He supports the s13 community well.
that is all.