Economy

[S14_Kouki]

Ok we all know the economy is bad. My question to zilvia is. If you had a chance to help america and change economy what would you do???

[TirePusher]

i have a feeling this is going to get BERY PORITICAL

[Kuzumi]

give consumers more assurance to go out and purchase more? buy and sell.

[I LUV MY S13]

convince ppl its ok to go out and spend

[cc4usmc]

Bring all the work back into the U.S. But for my sanity, I don't know shit about the economy.

What I do know is S14_Kouki is a thread whore :hyper:

[duffman1278]

Lower the minimum wage since apparently people with very little education believe they should be making 6 figures for doing stupid jobs thus sending jobs over seas. Then I would focus getting money into the education system since that is what will bring work back to the U.S. in the future and keep up with the world in technology.

Also, I'd get people to put there money back into banks and raise consumer confidence.

[ronmcdon]

I'm not sure I understand your question.
Is it what can you do, as you are?
Maybe what can you do, if you were some god?

I'll just speak for myself.
The only way I can help the economy is by buying stuff.
It's another way to justify shopping really, but that's good for the economy.

Otherwise, I don't see how Zilvia members can do much.
I doubt any of us are Tim Geitner or Obama.

[theicecreamdan]

People didn't realize they had to live within their means.

Banks didn't care if people were going to end up being evicted from their homes.

We're at war, and we're spending WAY too much money on it.

Huge corporations drain money away from all the regions where they do business, and all that money ends up sitting in savings accounts of a bunch of high ranking officers instead of all the people down below who made it happen.

My fix for the economy, do business with small local businesses. Small business keeps money circulating since there are fewer corporate cash drains which allows the wealth generated by a business to be shared more directly with the people that are doing the actual work that generates the wealth. Get out of debt, cut costs and work harder to do it. Stop giving 20% of the money you spend to banks that aren't actually offering a service that contributes to society.

etc... this economy pisses me off. Money is fake, the only value money has is the hard work that it should represent. Instead we all allowed several very specific markets to balloon out of control and these markets unfortunately inaccurately defined our dollar for too long.

[shmiddy]

3 words

make pot legal

[upsdude]

enforce our borders, shrink government. bring manufacturing jobs back to america...though how can we compete with china and india when they pay workers a fraction of what a worker here would make.

[Phlip]

i have a feeling this is going to get BERY PORITICAL
That is what this section is for.



give consumers more assurance to go out and purchase more? buy and sell.
And by "assurance," you DO mean "income," right?

convince ppl its ok to go out and spend
I bet people are chomping at the bit to get out there and spend those paychecks they're getting from the jobs that laid them off.
Oh, wait.


The first things to do would be to close those loopholes that allow the companies to send jobs overseas, effectively penalizing instead of rewarding them.
With jobs back home, jobs exists, money is made and money is spent, simple as that. Not to mention "Buy American" as people have so righteously preached all throughout my 30 years becomes more realistic.
Someone mentioned the legalizing of the reefers, which I also agree with, even as a non-smoker and I am not going to go into that because there is a long thread about that already.
The best thing that could be done would be for those in power to stop making stupid fucking mistakes, then rewarding incompetence.

[upsdude]

The best thing that could be done would be for those in power to stop making stupid fucking mistakes, then rewarding incompetence.


Very true, but more importantly we gotta stop electing such dumbasses in the first place.

[ronmcdon]

There's only so much you can do to reduce sending jobs overseas.
businesses operate on bottom line.
Mass manufacturing is NOT ever going to come back to the US (not any 1st world countries for that matter).
Take that into consideration and adapt.

Only way to help this, is by giving incentives for employers to hire & keep employees here.
Give tax breaks, write-offs, or whatever.
I'm not for punishing companies when they're already struggling.

Maybe offer cheaper (if not free), and more classes on job training for adults.
I know city college is there, but often the cost of classes & books aren't affordable.
The number of classes offered are also limited.

I'd rather we spend more on our colleges, than high-schools.
Cut the senior year in high school.
Use those funds to pay for more college assistance & funding.

Refine all administrative costs & operations for all government agencies.
The less we spend on admin, the more we can spend on actual services provided.

With government, I'm always opposed to spending too much.
Keep overhead low and taxes low.
Keep regulation based on rewards and incentives.

Force banks who have taken bailout $$$, to lend back something to society (this is a problem now).

Most importantly fix judicial system, with regards to frivolous lawsuits.
Impose some accountability on plaintiffs.
If you sue and lose, you will automatically have to pay for all legal fees.
Impose caps for compensation.
They are driving up all insurance and legal fees to a level that's detrimental to the cost of doing business.

[Phlip]

There's only so much you can do to reduce sending jobs overseas.
businesses operate on bottom line.
Mass manufacturing is NOT ever going to come back to the US (not any 1st world countries for that matter).
Take that into consideration and adapt.
I understand that, but I speak more to customer service jobs than manufacturing.
Like for instance, was I not using a gray-market phone not covered under AT&T's warranty program, and I needed to call for a warranty service, I would get a "vendor" (AT&T's pretty word for "outsourced") call center, a couple of which I know are in the US, but that one in particular is in India. I will get someone making a fraction of what the now-unemployed US worker would be making, to read (poorly) from a script and tell me his name is "David" when we all know better.
The service I get will be very poor as a result of the language barrier -- both real and perceived, I know how people flinch at the THOUGHT of hearing an accent that doesn't sound like theirs -- and I will leave this situation feeling less than pleased. This makes me, as a customer, feel slighted. Many will take their business elsewhere or nowhere at all, choosing to not deal at all unless they just HAVE to.
Sure, the manufacturing jobs will be where they can be, but it is kinda fucked up to ship customer service jobs overseas like that, and everyone is doing it.

[ronmcdon]

Oh yeah, I'll absolutely agree with you on that one.

Lol, if you think that's bad, try dealing with a tech company on an ongoing basis at work.
One of the companies I worked at in the past, had a data management 'vendor' tech-support center in India.
Nobody at our company could decipher a single email from 'Bob' or 'Dave'.
What our employer thought he could save,
he ended up spending much more in the long run & frustrating himself.

I'm sure we're not the only ones concerned with outsourced customer service.
I've always thought a product is only as good as the service behind it.

Whether or not other consumers are willing to pay that premium is another thing.
Most customers are also pretty stingy with spending for quality, to be fair.

[dynamicck]

Eliminate federal income tax. Increase sales tax.

It's like a progressive tax, but a willing one. And EVERYONE has to pay, illegals, foreigners, and whatever excuse people have for not paying tax.

Government should be audited like we f*cking get audited. Let's how these idiots spend out tax money.

[lewisfk]

stop outsourcing, kill NAFTA, Pass a law for fix mortgages and credit cards, and enforce the laws on the books i.e. illegal immigration. Tax anyone who uses the made in American Logo and their product is produced in Mexico or Canada. EXAMPLE Ford, Chevy, and Dodge!

[ranger240]

what mr mcdonnnn said about education is funny. in other countries (denmark) not only do citizens get zero cost tuition (free, i dont want to use that bc of tax arguments blah blah blah)

BUT they also give 'student wages' i.e. $500/month if your in school full time to compensate for the opportunity cost of doing so

GET THIS... its $1000/month if you dont live with your parents.

the end result... kids move out of the house when theyre 18 and live much cooler lives than we do here

PROBLEMS... denmark is socialist, cost of living is high, taxes are high (60% tax rate isnt unusual) and its a country of 7 million


all the sociological inequality issues in the u.s. could be significantly diffused if such policy was enacted. even if you paid every full time college student like a couple hundred bucks a month or something it would be an incentive for lower income level people to stay in school longer,

countries like denmark dont have ginormous federal budgets spending billions on every damn thing imaginable though, paying the full bill for wars abroad that benefit freeloading european countries and such


uhhh lets just suppose theres 10 million college age americans at any given time.. 1000/month.. that'd cost 10,000,000,000 ten billion a month haha 120 billion a year.. thats chicken shit compared to the current federal budget deficit....


im not advocating denmarks system, but its funny to think about.. hahah especially with americas youth, what better way to jump start our short-term investment dependant economy... by giving kids money for rimz Wiis and weed

[ronmcdon]

I'm not advocating something as drastic as Denmark's system.
Imo, that's going a bit too far.
We're already spending so much as is right now.

I do think that all things equal,
there should more funding for city college & vocational schools.

funding costs equal, provide more classes at night/weekends for working adults.
It is terribly unfair that a dispropoationate amount classes should be provided to ppl who have no day jobs.
It should be the other way around.

More affordable & accesible education/work training would allow our workers to adpat to the changing workplace easier.
It would also give all those laid-off factory workers more of a chance to get a decent job outside of manufacturing.

Now with high school, I am not convinced there is a direct 'cause & effect' relationship between funding and student performance.
Forgive me, if I have more far more faith in America's colleges than public high schools.

[I LUV MY S13]

I bet people are chomping at the bit to get out there and spend those paychecks they're getting from the jobs that laid them off.
Oh, wait.




oh yea cuz the entire nation has been laid off, oh wait....for those who have jobs and that are collecting unemployment from their state governments need to spend what they can so our states have more money, and less budget cuts.

[SuicidnS13]

enforce our borders, shrink government. bring manufacturing jobs back to america...though how can we compete with china and india when they pay workers a fraction of what a worker here would make.


You know Ive been thinking alot harder about the items you brought up.

Border Patrol is worthless with out better policies. This country makes it way to easy for people to work the system. We need much better policies. Like drug-tests for people on welfare. Heck that alone would save our country millions in welfare costs.

I also think people should have to take credit checks to have a kid in this country. I mean if you cant afford to raise the damn kid why should I have to support your lazy broke self???

MFG jobs will never come back to America people. Sure they pay a fraction what we pay out here, but it also costs a fraction of what we pay to live out in those countries. Thus why 56,000,000(million) illegal mexicans are in this country. They still live a lifestyle accustomed to Mexico so even our $7.00 per hour jobs are amazing to them. The problem with the illegals is that most of them do not pay taxes and alot of them are on welfare/medicaid. I think that welfare should only be open to true us citizens and their kids, not the ones which just popped out across the borders. Im not even mad that we have soo many illegals here. Im mad because the idiots in washington havent found a way to capitalize of them!

Our own people in our Auto-MFG companies priced them selves out when they felt that they (un-educated) deserved to get payed what a college educated person should get payed. Get real people!, you work on a MFG line doing the same thing over and over and over. I went to college for 4 years and then went through a 5 year apprenticeship training to make 85.00+ per hour through my Union. But I deserve it!

We are now in the information age people. Educate your selves past the competition. The industrial age has ended for this country. China is now approaching their time.

[HyperTek]

i jus went back to school, and im still thinking "dam will there even be a job for me when i get out?".

fuck. yeah i think the number one thing is to motivate the people, gotta build trust in the people, make them believe there will be improvements. ALot of people like to point fingers at our presidents etc. "ahh bush fucked everything up" or "ahh obama is fucking everything up".

Thing is the cost of living has been inflated, hard to bring it back down because people expect more $$.. Minimum wage always rises, bring it back lower like some one here said. Beef up border patrol/start deporting people. Make it more strict for unemployed/welfare etc.

Make that margin between lower and upper income alot less different. Rich careers thrive on lower income people. Sports athletes get paid way too fucking much, shouldnt make more than doctors just for entertaining.

[theicecreamdan]

There's only so much you can do to reduce sending jobs overseas.
businesses operate on bottom line.
Mass manufacturing is NOT ever going to come back to the US (not any 1st world countries for that matter).
Take that into consideration and adapt.



So somehow we're just going to start making a bunch of 3° 4° etc jobs keep coming out of nowhere? Unless manufacturing and farming start happening we're going to have some serious problems.

Want to know how we bring these jobs back to the US? American corporations outsourcing jobs to overseas should be paying their employees a fair wage instead of exploiting cheap labor markets. I don't want to buy products manufactured overseas in shitty conditions, the people in charge of Nike have way too much money sitting in their pockets to have a bunch of little kids in shitty conditions sewing shoes. Its time for top tier labor sectors to take a pay cut.

There's a problem when people in charge have everything while their employees are struggling just to feed their children.

[S14_Kouki]

oh yea cuz the entire nation has been laid off, oh wait....for those who have jobs and that are collecting unemployment from their state governments need to spend what they can so our states have more money, and less budget cuts.

Alot of the nation as been laid off and it has hurt use all one way or the other.

[ronmcdon]

So somehow we're just going to start making a bunch of 3° 4° etc jobs keep coming out of nowhere? Unless manufacturing and farming start happening we're going to have some serious problems.

Want to know how we bring these jobs back to the US? American corporations outsourcing jobs to overseas should be paying their employees a fair wage instead of exploiting cheap labor markets. I don't want to buy products manufactured overseas in shitty conditions, the people in charge of Nike have way too much money sitting in their pockets to have a bunch of little kids in shitty conditions sewing shoes. Its time for top tier labor sectors to take a pay cut.

There's a problem when people in charge have everything while their employees are struggling just to feed their children.

You can't create jobs in an industry that's dying in our country.
If employers decide to shut down their plants & overshore,
there's really no law against that.

It's not just about the companies wanting to make more $$$.
Buyers (retail or wholesale customers) always want their stuff cheap.
You don't have to look past Zilvia to see that, with ppl opting for low cost knock-offs and/or poor quality goods.
Meanwhile, your competitors are going to have that price advantage you don't have, if you don't adapt.

It's not just manufacturing jobs that are being outsourced either.
Lots of tech, admin, and arts jobs are also being moved.
I've even heard of architectural firms outsourcing their designers.

There really nothing our government can do about this.
The best solution would be to prepare our workers for industries that are more in demand and less likely to be outsourced in the near future.

[ronmcdon]

i jus went back to school, and im still thinking "dam will there even be a job for me when i get out?".

fuck. yeah i think the number one thing is to motivate the people, gotta build trust in the people, make them believe there will be improvements. ALot of people like to point fingers at our presidents etc. "ahh bush fucked everything up" or "ahh obama is fucking everything up".

Thing is the cost of living has been inflated, hard to bring it back down because people expect more $$.. Minimum wage always rises, bring it back lower like some one here said. Beef up border patrol/start deporting people. Make it more strict for unemployed/welfare etc.

Make that margin between lower and upper income alot less different. Rich careers thrive on lower income people. Sports athletes get paid way too fucking much, shouldnt make more than doctors just for entertaining.

Well just be strategic in what you choose to study, & how much it's going to cost.
Some jobs (like health proffessionals, legal work, law-enforcement, etc) aren't as likely to be outsourced.

The cost of living is substantially higher than it was even 10 yrs ago b/c of inflation.
check the value of the US dollar and how fast it lost it's value in the past decade.
I can assure you, it's not going to get any better anytime soon.

Of course althletes are going to be paid well.
It's a country that feverently supports sports.
It's just simple supply & demand.
If you find what they make to be offensive, then don't support that industry.
likewise, don't complain if you have the opportunity to make the same if you're in their shoes (I know I wouldn't).

[Walperstyle]

1) Eliminate unions (labor laws protect workers, no sense protecting jobs when nobody is buying stuff)
2) GM opens up the factory doors 'hey, who wants to work for $15/hr'
3) employees that are tired of defaulting on the mortgage come back to work gladly
4) Sell cars at reduced rate now that the cost to build isn't super high
5) compete globally again
edit 6) white collar kids need to go back to work at mcdonalds and stop expecting everything to be handed to them. This consumer whore of a nation was in the building years ago. Never mind deporting people, how about doing the shit jobs like you are suppost to.

problem solved

Next rhetorical internet discussion

[ranger240]

So somehow we're just going to start making a bunch of 3° 4° etc jobs keep coming out of nowhere? Unless manufacturing and farming start happening we're going to have some serious problems.

Want to know how we bring these jobs back to the US? American corporations outsourcing jobs to overseas should be paying their employees a fair wage instead of exploiting cheap labor markets. I don't want to buy products manufactured overseas in shitty conditions, the people in charge of Nike have way too much money sitting in their pockets to have a bunch of little kids in shitty conditions sewing shoes. Its time for top tier labor sectors to take a pay cut.

There's a problem when people in charge have everything while their employees are struggling just to feed their children.

so much fail...

1. farming... we have overproduction as it is. technology substitutes labor pal, those giant 300,000 dollar tractors are way more productive at picking corn than a couple hundred random migrant workers.

2. ''paying a fair :cry: wage"... '

why is this bad? bc any dumbass, their brother (also a dumbass), and hey lets not forget you! can grow coffee down in colombia or whatever.

so you have a fairly self sustaining economy (lets pretend colombia is) thats diverse enough to produce a good portion of their food domestically,

and then some :jerkit: americans who dont understand economics hear some hippie say something like " you pay 4 dollars for a cup of coffee but the poor helpless farmer who grew those beans only gets paid 10 cents".. they spring to action with ''fair trade''.

so lets just say every idiot coffee farmer gets ''rewarded'' with fair trade

america is throwing tons of bucks needlessly at coffee farmers. that sector of the economy is overflowing with cash.

guess what that does? tons of colombians ramp up coffee production to get some of the action. they also drop whatever else they were doing so production of other food products/whatever falls.

say this goes along great for a given amount of time.. but something terrible happens and Colombian coffee demand in the u.s. plummets. it can be anything, say some flu linked to imported coffee beans, maybe new technology allows coffee to be grown via automation in the states, lets say rising fuel costs make shipping the beans to the u.s. more expensive via some terrorist attack on an oil refinery somewhere, whatever.

What happens to Columbia? well buddy, they're fucked. they invested so much into that single export that their economy is now dependent on u.s. coffee demand....

im ignoring what actually happened to south american countries in the 90s and cocaine in that example


soo i know your point is, workers abroad shouldnt cost less then workers in the u.s... but buddy, face the facts.. thats not going to happen.. you could request some stupid govt plan to tax workers abroad but that type of protectionism (look up protectionism btw) has proven to fail (look up 'fail' btw)

dont give me the economy failed too bs... check out the source of the failure Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac

[ranger240]

oh and your nike stuff.. that failing is a result of those local economies/governments...

plus heres something to wrap your brain around.. say nike does pay 8/hr to its workers in Indonesia. thats great right... yeah until youve just injected that poor ass country with immense income inequality.. imagine you make a hundred times what another worker at another company did.. and the other worker is poor.. theyre going to hate you, theres going to be violence and your neighboorhood is going to go to shit.

economies like that arnt going to get improved by some company raining money on a few select workers

[g6civcx]

Ok we all know the economy is bad

For a different perspective, the economy is relative. While you and I may have less money, there are people who are still very, very rich. We don't know about them. We don't hear about them. But yet they still thrive regardless of how the rest of us do.

How does that make you feel?

[ranger240]

For a different perspective, the economy is relative. While you and I may have less money, there are people who are still very, very rich. We don't know about them. We don't hear about them. But yet they still thrive regardless of how the rest of us do.

How does that make you feel?

:wtc: wahh wahh class envy wahh :cry:

hey buddy, guess what? there are people poorer than you, perhaps unemployed going "damn why does that asshole have a job"

its all relative esse

stop posting here and post up pics of your car in your hood thread

[g6civcx]

:wtc: wahh wahh class envy wahh :cry:

hey buddy, guess what? there are people poorer than you, perhaps unemployed going "damn why does that asshole have a job"

That's not the point.

its all relative esse

This is the point. The economy is relative. If you have money then the economy is not bad.


stop posting here and post up pics of your car in your hood thread

You stop posting here and leave forever.

[ranger240]

hey baby lets play nice

[S14_Kouki]

For a different perspective, the economy is relative. While you and I may have less money, there are people who are still very, very rich. We don't know about them. We don't hear about them. But yet they still thrive regardless of how the rest of us do.

How does that make you feel?

IDK im not mad at them or anything. There just the lucky ones that have been making money there smart, they know how to handle there money and invest it wisely. I would say theres about 15% of america that have a ass load of money and make more money off of it and the rest of us are just trying to live day to day.

[SuicidnS13]

That is a good asumption. Remember everyone has most of the same opputunities in life. For some they are easier to achieve, while for others they are much harder. But in the end, we are only as succesful as our worst choices. Just think back to those days when you should have ________________ but instead you ______________ which caused you to lose out on something else.......

[Phlip]

Of course althletes are going to be paid well.
It's a country that feverently supports sports.
It's just simple supply & demand.
If you find what they make to be offensive, then don't support that industry.
likewise, don't complain if you have the opportunity to make the same if you're in their shoes (I know I wouldn't).
I actually agree with you on this one and will add that sports stars are more than fairly compensated when one compares the amount of marketing, merchandise, and simple attendance revenues that they generate for those that sign their checks.
In fact, I blogged just that (http://callmephlip.blogspot.com/2009/07/why-do-they.html) a couple months ago. People watch sports, companies sell products, what better audience to sell to than people who will be watching someone and paying attention. Hell, one better, get me some screen time ON the field, logos and all that goodness. I am willing to pay to advertise to the team owners/associations for the concession. It would be damned greedy of those owners and such to just pocket the whole ball of wax and not share it with the workers. There again in the interest of fairness, the better players make MORE money. Again, the caps on these, or amounts spent are tied directly to the amounts that are fair to the smallest markets of teams to remain somewhat competitive, even if they don't. Hell, perhaps EVERYONE should hope to be as fairly compensated, comparative to what they make for their employers, as sports stars are.

Wait, no... Using that model, some people would have to PAY to work.

[SexPanda]

900,000,000,000,000 dollar bailout. Around 300,000,000,000 american citizens. what is that, 300 grand each? That'd stimulate the economy lol.

anyhow, you can't fix this over night. We need to start at the root of the problem to really fix this country. and the root of the problem is us. I've said it before, I'll say it again. We're a very wanting society. We want it now. We'll take out loans, buy expensive things, live in big houses, and live on the very edge of what we can afford, and as soon as 1 little thing goes wrong, like the gas prices going up or whatever, there's a domino effect. People start defaulting, banks fail, corporations fail, we all suffer.

How to fix that problem? Well shoot, I don't really know. I guess stop trying to outdo your neighbors with what car you have or how many square feet your house is... Just live comfortably, and if you have to wait to get something nice, like a boat, or whatever, do it.