Gay rights

[slothonaleash]

I figured I'd represent the strong minority of homosexuals here on the board and start this off.

What are all y'all's thoughts on civil unions, gay marriage, hate crimes, Obama's promises for gay rights, anti-gay slurs etc. based around the LGBT population.

Anything goes as long as you don't end up being insulting.

[ronmcdon]

I say just let ppl do whatever they want.
Most of gay marriages are going to be legal someday anyhow.
Its just a matter of when.

Idk about slurs.
Personally i think words are just words.

[ManoNegra]

Gotta admit: I'm pretty homophobic being due to my upbringing and all
I've had friends that are gay/lesbian and been around them at work and school
I also joke around and call things and friends 'gay' regularly
now having said that I'm all for equal rights for everyone
go ahead and marry, everyone should have the right to be miserable


oh and btw, this thread is :ghey::ghey::ghey::ghey::ghey::ghey::ghey:




jp

[an_orange_s2k]

marriage will happen sooner or later. as for gay slurs, you cant touch that because that violates freedom of speech. besides people are judged and insulted all the time for no apparent reason. there will always be people who dont agree/accept it

[ryguy]

I work with a lot of gay guys and have no problem with gays. In fact, one of the gay guys is the funniest dude I've ever met. I'm all for gay civil unions. BUT, I don't specifically support 'gay marriage' because I view marriage more as a religous rite than a civil one. I don't even think the states should issue 'marriage licenses' to heterosexual couples, I think in the eyes of the state all unions should be civil unions and leave marriage to whatever belief system the couple holds.

That being said, some gay people need to stop acting like every day is Pride Day, be a normal freakin person and you'll get more respect. A small core of gays ruins it for all gays IMO.

[Wake]

*I retract my earlier statement and should have read further before answering*

and btw
I support equal rights for all humans, period

[ronmcdon]

Any legal experts here?

I'd like to know what's the difference, in terms of legal rights,
between a same sex civil union, & a same sex marriage (in the USA for the most part).
are there any other practical considerations?


That being said, some gay people need to stop acting like every day is Pride Day, be a normal freakin person and you'll get more respect. A small core of gays ruins it for all gays IMO.

RYGUY - What do you mean when you mentioned:
"some gay people need to stop acting like every day is Pride Day"
Not criticizing, I'm just interested to know specifically what you meant by that.

[ryguy]

Any legal experts here?

I'd like to know what's the difference, in terms of legal rights,
between a same sex civil union, & a same sex marriage (in the USA for the most part).
are there any other practical considerations?



RYGUY - What do you mean when you mentioned:
"some gay people need to stop acting like every day is Pride Day"
Not criticizing, I'm just interested to know specifically what you meant by that.

Most of the gay people I work with are normal people. If they didn't tell you they were gay you probably wouldn't know by just looking at them. These people are the people who helped kill my white suburban homophobia. Then, on the other hand, there are a small number of, let's say, flamboyant homosexuals. On Gay Pride Day, at least here in Chicago, there is a big gay pride parade and these flamboyant homosexuals are running around the streets nearly naked doing the nasty with other dudes all over the place. Just because you're gay doesnt mean you can mack on dudes in the middle of a public place. I understand heterosexuals do this too, but when it's a gay person doing it, people tend to notice more.

So pretty much I'm saying that there are gay people out there who use the fact that they're gay to get attention.

[azndoc]

Finally a thread where Dook can come out.

[SexPanda]

I dont see why gay people shouldnt be happy. if they want to get married then so be it.

Marraige now adays isnt much of a ''religous'' term. A marraige between two companies, a marraige of good ideas. marraige just means bringing 2 things (people in this case) together. I wish people would get past themselves and let others be happy. Seperation of church and state. We may be a "christian" country, but the same leaders who will openly say no gay marraige are the same ones who go out and have a mistress, or are secretly gay themselves. Hyporcacy and trying to save face for the "moral" majority, thats whats keeping this back

[ryguy]

Marraige nowadays isnt much of a ''religous'' term.


Seperation of church and state.



That's my point exactly. The state should issue 'civil unions' with all the legal ramifications that 'marriage' carries. Leave marriage to the 'church' or whatever belief organization you hold. If gay people belong to a church that allows such a thing, great, allow them to be married through that avenue. Same for straight people.

[ronmcdon]

Most of the gay people I work with are normal people. If they didn't tell you they were gay you probably wouldn't know by just looking at them. These people are the people who helped kill my white suburban homophobia. Then, on the other hand, there are a small number of, let's say, flamboyant homosexuals. On Gay Pride Day, at least here in Chicago, there is a big gay pride parade and these flamboyant homosexuals are running around the streets nearly naked doing the nasty with other dudes all over the place. Just because you're gay doesnt mean you can mack on dudes in the middle of a public place. I understand heterosexuals do this too, but when it's a gay person doing it, people tend to notice more.

So pretty much I'm saying that there are gay people out there who use the fact that they're gay to get attention.

Ok, yeah I would have to agree with you there.
That's annoying whether regardless of one's sexual orientation.
I would think there are public indecency laws to prevent sex & sodomy in public.

Where I work, close to skid row in Los Angeles, we used to have homeless ppl 'do the nasty' in broad daylight on occasion.
that's just uncalled for imo.

[slowpo]

I simply don't get it. Homos are filled with so much hate and animosity to people who don't share their beliefs (aka, decent people). Gays just seem to absolutely hate Normal people, have no respect at all for us. They are always, ALWAYS going on about having special rights, about how persecuted they are, blah blah blah, etc. Yet they themselves have no tolerance for Normal people, who tell them they are evil.

That is my belief folks! That is what I truly and honestly belief and nothing can make me change that. I truly feel deep down that homosexuals are all going to hell. God made me this way. So why don't homosexuals want me to tell this to them? They are attempting to infringe on our freedom of speech

[ryguy]

That's annoying whether regardless of one's sexual orientation.
I would think there are public indecency laws to prevent sex & sodomy in public.

Oh, there are laws, but its a god damn free for all on Pride Day, in ways other than sex.

And I would have to say hetero vs. homo, homos use their orientation/lifestyle for attention way more than heteros.

[ronmcdon]

Well personally I've enjoyed the company of several gay friends.
Even walked hand in hand with a gay dude in a 'parade' for shits & giggles.
Not to say there might not be some who are spiteful, but I've known plenty who aren't.

Of course there are some gay dudes who are a PITA.
Some gay guys are ridiculously self-conscious & uncomfy with their sexuality.
I wouldn't be surprised if some were infact a bit hostile.
(although whether they are hostile b/c you are hetero, or simply b/c they don't like YOU is hard to say).

As with any given group, there are always nicer ppl & assholes.

[theicecreamdan]

I simply don't get it. Homos are filled with so much hate and animosity to people who don't share their beliefs (aka, decent people). Gays just seem to absolutely hate Normal people, have no respect at all for us. They are always, ALWAYS going on about having special rights, about how persecuted they are, blah blah blah, etc. Yet they themselves have no tolerance for Normal people, who tell them they are evil.

That is my belief folks! That is what I truly and honestly belief and nothing can make me change that. I truly feel deep down that homosexuals are all going to hell. God made me this way. So why don't homosexuals want me to tell this to them? They are attempting to infringe on our freedom of speech

There are so many "evil" things that you we all do. How can you look at so many people, and say that anything they have done is any worse that anything you have done? You really aren't better than anybody, whoever the greater power of the universe is certainly doesn't give two shits whether somebody shared their "love" with somebody the same sex or the opposite. Homosexuality doesn't hurt anybody. When was the last time your life was negatively impacted by a homosexual, by that person's sexual orientation? If that offends you, then you should grow up and realize that people have lifestyles different than yours. People being gay won't make you gay, if that is what is scaring you.

You hurt these people so much worse than they will ever hurt you, so before you go around telling them how "evil" they are, maybe you need to think about what evil really means to you, and whether the sins you commit are any worse than the sins they commit.

[ryguy]

People being gay won't make you gay, if that is what is scaring you.

Or will it? Bum bum BUM!! Maybe slopo is in denial.

Or maybe he's just ignorant.

Either way, every single word in his reply is flat out wrong.

[irax]

Seperation of church and state.

umm... Separation of Church and State is about not being able to make laws that would be for or against peoples religious choices. I think gay people should be allowed to be married. I also think there should not be a law that forces a church to accept it.

[slowpo]

The American public is being lied to about what goes on at these gay rights rallies! It's not about politics, it's about sodomy in the open-air! Here are photos from a gay festival in the middle of the day in a public street.
Warning: Pictures are extremely graphic and not suitable for kids or those under 18

*Link Deleted, User Pinked*


That's what really ticks me off about the so-called "Gay Rights" movement. I honestly don't think they truly care about the politics, I think they just want an excuse to get together and show off their abominations in public and engage in anonymous sex. What better way of finding an anonymous partner than a crowd of 1,000?

[choleboy]

you gay bro?

[slowpo]

you gay bro?
your been a bigot by asking me that...go head google the word bigot becouse i dont think an ignorant kid like you know what bigot means.

[ryguy]

The American public is being lied to about what goes on at these gay rights rallies! It's not about politics, it's about sodomy in the open-air! Here are photos from a gay festival in the middle of the day in a public street.
Warning: Pictures are extremely graphic and not suitable for kids or those under 18

*Link Deleted, User Pinked*


That's what really ticks me off about the so-called "Gay Rights" movement. I honestly don't think they truly care about the politics, I think they just want an excuse to get together and show off their abominations in public and engage in anonymous sex. What better way of finding an anonymous partner than a crowd of 1,000?

1. Thats San Francisco
2. Thats the small minority of gay freaks I was talking about.

I'm pretty sure San Francisco is the absolute epicenter of the gay freak culture. That is some way, way fucked up shit though; I won't judge the whole community based on that.

[RNGWLD]

The American public is being lied to about what goes on at these gay rights rallies! It's not about politics, it's about sodomy in the open-air! Here are photos from a gay festival in the middle of the day in a public street.
Warning: Pictures are extremely graphic and not suitable for kids or those under 18

*Link Deleted, User Pinked*

That's what really ticks me off about the so-called "Gay Rights" movement. I honestly don't think they truly care about the politics, I think they just want an excuse to get together and show off their abominations in public and engage in anonymous sex. What better way of finding an anonymous partner than a crowd of 1,000?

:tweak::tweak::tweak::eek2::eek2::eek2::eek2::eek2 ::eek2::eek2:
Holy shit.....holy shit what the fucking fuck is that????????

Son of a bitch I need to go throw up now but thank you for sharing that link...that was an eye opener into the real shit that goes down.

[xpertsnowcarver]

^^Damn.. no wonder SF is known for gays...

I'm overall cool with gays. Yea, I don't mind gay friends or gays getting married, and I don't mind them holding hands or even kissing in public, BUT! If they are just burying their faces in each other, come on... even normal couples shouldn't be doing that. Get a room please... Same goes for lesbians. Though mildly amusing and (depending on how attractive they are) possibly arousing, its still inappropriate.

Oh and kids should be properly taught how birth occurs first, then informed of diseases and sexuality types.

[ManoNegra]

I simply don't get it. Homos are filled with so much hate and animosity to people who don't share their beliefs (aka, decent people). Gays just seem to absolutely hate Normal people, have no respect at all for us. They are always, ALWAYS going on about having special rights, about how persecuted they are, blah blah blah, etc. Yet they themselves have no tolerance for Normal people, who tell them they are evil.

That is my belief folks! That is what I truly and honestly belief and nothing can make me change that. I truly feel deep down that homosexuals are all going to hell. God made me this way. So why don't homosexuals want me to tell this to them? They are attempting to infringe on our freedom of speech


'don't judge lest you be judged'
doesn't your God preach that?
or are 'decent people' - whatever that means - exempt from that rule?

[keistyle]

Gay folks don't bug me, some of them are chill. Just not the ones that wear pink camo vests, and green spray painted combat boots, and are rude.

Aside that, i dont care.

[ronmcdon]

The American public is being lied to about what goes on at these gay rights rallies! It's not about politics, it's about sodomy in the open-air! Here are photos from a gay festival in the middle of the day in a public street.
Warning: Pictures are extremely graphic and not suitable for kids or those under 18

*Link Deleted, User Pinked*

That's what really ticks me off about the so-called "Gay Rights" movement. I honestly don't think they truly care about the politics, I think they just want an excuse to get together and show off their abominations in public and engage in anonymous sex. What better way of finding an anonymous partner than a crowd of 1,000?

I don't think public homo-erotic orgies & gay rights are the same thing.

any blantant sexual activity in public obviously isn't good.
the failure of police (if not also city officials) to enforce public indecency is arguably even a more rediculous offense.
If you're not going to do squat, why even waste the city's $$$ to send out officers?
San Francisco sadly takes liberties a bit too far,
but I doubt it's representative of other communities across the nation.

Then again, nobody is forcing anyone to live in SF.
Every city/area has it's quirks to take into considerations before you move out/choose to stay.
It's like moving out to Los Angeles, and complaining the traffic is bad.
No place is perfect, and you just have to be realistic.
Not saying I necessarily approve of SF, but it is what it is.

Some agendas of the gay rights movement, imo are perfectly legit.
It's not unreasonable to fight say workplace discrimination,
apply for civil unions where there is none, etc.
I very much doubt that all gay rights is about organizing public orgies.

[ESmorz]

Go ahead, fornicate in the streets. Gay, Straight, Black White.

Bukkake on 12th Street.

[amdnivram]

Like stated before marriage should be separated into 2 separate things, a union with benefits like marriage currently is, and marriage which is enforced and declared by a religion. In no was am i religious, but i do believe that they do have a right to say who can and can't get married. Homosexuals should have the right to be in some binding "union" but it shouldn't necessarily be called marriage. Now as for that gallery that was linked..... well religious fanatics fear this kinda thing and im sure its why most stereotypes exist.


Many people claim that being gay is wrong, but i haven't met a single person who has followed the bible line for line, therefore people who say that it is wrong aren't really religious. And if people bring up intelligent design and that the reason why its wrong is because of the telos of our genitalia, then there's two sides to this argument. The genitalia could have been made for reproduction with pleasure as its second purpose in order to influence procreation, but then again no where in the body can you experience the kind of please that you can from the genitalia therefore pleasure can be the main purpose and reproduction a secondary. I'm just saying that even if you try to rationalize it, i don't believe there is a way to do it.

[ronmcdon]

Well the term 'Marriage' in the US is a legal condition between an opposite sex couples,
regardless of what you think ought to be.
You don't even have to be religious to be considered married before the US government.
What you do at your place of worship, or how you interpret whatever religious document is your own affair.

'Civil Union' and/or 'Domestic Partnership' in the US is a legal condition between same sex couples.

The actual rights of such civil unions vary from state to state.
In states such as CA, the rights granted to civil unions,
are more or less the same as the rights granted to a legal marriage.
Civil union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_union)

For the most part, i think one of the main controversies surrounding 'Civil Unions' is about recognition
(if other rights are already equal).
Same sex partners want their relationship to be recognized as a legit Marriage by the US goverment.
The lack of acknowledgement, is in itself an inequality.
This was, imo, the focus of things like the passing of 'Prop 8' in CA during 2008.

Personally, I'm generally ambivelent to labels.
I don't see the big deal either way.
If that's the only thing you're protesting, then imo things really aren't so bad.
Things aren't going to change one way or the other.

Ppl are going to acknowlege a relationship as legit or otherwise according to what they believe in,
regardless of what the government recognizes.

[g6civcx]

Should stay out of Off Topic.

[g6civcx]

Should stay out of Off Topic..

[FaLKoN240]

I simply don't get it. Homos are filled with so much hate and animosity to people who don't share their beliefs (aka, decent people).

You are obviously a brainwashed moron, or have no idea what happens to people based on their sexual orientation.

I like many other people on this board have stated have been friends with, worked with, and OMG been in the same room as gay people, and never once have I been "hated on" for not being gay.

What exactly would a "decent" person be? I'm pretty sure you, your parents, and friends, have done some "indecent things/sins" in front of god. So don't act like you're better than anyone else because you fuck someone that has a vagina.

They are always, ALWAYS going on about having special rights, about how persecuted they are, blah blah blah, etc. Yet they themselves have no tolerance for Normal people, who tell them they are evil.

The reason they're going ON and ON about not having rights is because they DON'T have the rights that straight married couples do.

Because they're not married, they're not allowed to have the same hospital visits that straight couples do when they're significant other is under medical care. They cannot recognize their "union" in the governments eyes to receive the same tax status that straight couples get.

Not only that, they have to deal with close minded homophobes like you being afraid that some gay dude is gonna jump your bones because you're so sure that you're so hot and sexy to a gay dude. Big surprise here, but you're probably not the most attractive person in the world, and I'm pretty sure that if anyone gay or straight knew how much hatred you had in you over something that doesn't directly affect you, they would think you're ugly on the inside too.

They're not sexual deviants they just have a different sexual orientation than yours.

That is my belief folks! That is what I truly and honestly belief and nothing can make me change that. I truly feel deep down that homosexuals are all going to hell. God made me this way. So why don't homosexuals want me to tell this to them? They are attempting to infringe on our freedom of speech

I don't care to change your beliefs, but I don't mind pointing out how ignorant and foolish your post sounded not to mention the posts you made that follow this one.

GOD didn't make you this way, your church/pastor/parents did. Unless you've been up top and actually shared a word with the man/woman/cow himself.

Why don't gays want you to tell this to them? Because they already know the stigma/hatred/ and socially condemned status they already have, and you'd just be beating a dead horse. Freedom of speech has nothing to do with it.

You guys can picket at gay pride parades all you want with your "Dicks are for chicks" and "God hates fags" posters all you want. Gay people aren't going away just like ignorant fucks like you aren't going away.

~~~~~~~~~

With that over with, I never really post up any sort of ideas or anything on gay rights because I like many others haven't had much to say, but what I said in that post I feel is pretty close to how I feel on the issue.

Gays like everyone else deserve to have rights, just like women did, just like black people, and just like all the other minorities that came to this country eventually did.

This rights movement is no different than any of the other ones that came before it. They just want to be recognized like the NORMAL CITIZENS that they are in this country, and have the same civil liberties as everyone else.

[!Zar!]

I simply don't get it. Homos are filled with so much hate and animosity to people who don't share their beliefs (aka, decent people). Gays just seem to absolutely hate Normal people, have no respect at all for us. They are always, ALWAYS going on about having special rights, about how persecuted they are, blah blah blah, etc. Yet they themselves have no tolerance for Normal people, who tell them they are evil.

That is my belief folks! That is what I truly and honestly belief and nothing can make me change that. I truly feel deep down that homosexuals are all going to hell. God made me this way. So why don't homosexuals want me to tell this to them? They are attempting to infringe on our freedom of speech

I understand your dislike for whatever reason about gay people. But you haven't even touched on what this thread is really about.

I have one question for you. Why shouldn't gay people be allowed to marry?

[CrimsonRockett]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Hell, I grew up Catholic(parents/family still are. I am not.)

Grew up being told being gay is a sin, wrong, blah blah blah.

Even after growing up with that mentality, I still say let them do whatever they fucking please.

We're all human. There's no reason they shouldn't be allowed to marry.

If that's what they want, let it be.

[SexPanda]

umm... Separation of Church and State is about not being able to make laws that would be for or against peoples religious choices. I think gay people should be allowed to be married. I also think there should not be a law that forces a church to accept it.

No thats not what Im saying ah tall. Ah tall! lol. Politicians are using religion to make excuses why gay people shouldn't be allowed to be married. They work for the people. They should not let their own personal beliefs dictate the lives of the people they work for. Now, Im not much of a "liberal," but I believe that homosexuality is not a choice. I couldn't imagine driving the Weinermobile down the Hershey highway, and there has been scientific evidence that the physiology of gay folk is different than that of strait folk. Gay people should be able to get together and have it be called whatever they want. If a church doesnt accept that, no biggy, thats not the issue. They don't recieve money from the state. The issue is states not allowing two people in love not benefit from being married.

[HyperTek]

let gays get married, its the worst to have a kid out of wedlock... ohhh wait...

[Touge Noob S13]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Hell, I grew up Catholic(parents/family still are. I am not.)

Grew up being told being gay is a sin, wrong, blah blah blah.



Funny thing is a friend of mine has a gay uncle who teaches Sunday school for the local Catholic church.

[beb]

I believe that every human should be allowed basic rights....

For those who actively protest or use up energy on going up against gay rights, I wonder what better use that effort can go to! Its much easier and you can actually make a direct impact by helping the homeless, needy, mentor a troubled kid with no direction or foster a child, shit - maybe even talk to local schools about sex outside of marriage! I cant see how the religious people who dedicate all this time towards hating and trying to strip another human of basic rights thinks its worth it!

As for the topic of marriage... It IS a social bond now. Im not 100% sure on the origin, but from what I hear; its incredibly debatable.

This is NOT telling those who are against homosexuality and their rights to accept them. Hell no, thats why we live in America - where you can choose to say what you want and express yourself.... But just take a moment to think about what youre doing to another person! A person who cant help who they are - whats so wrong about letting them marry? Whats wrong with seeing two men or two women hold hands or kiss in public? How does this directly affect you!? Its just ridiculous to me that so many people cannot see past a sexual orientation and realize that there is a sister, brother, best friend, volunteer worker, doctor - A FREAKING PERSON is there!!

Another plus - California could use the revenue brought in by weddings, honeymoons, receptions, retail sale of gowns/tux/food catering/flowers/ etc from legalizing gay marriage....

[Wake]

I love how people claim that gay people only want to have sex in public.

Im sorry but I work in a strip club and worked in a porn store, and I guarantee you that just as many white collar, god fearing, hetero men would be out fucking women like rabbits in the street if they had the opportunity.
To say the gay rights movement is about open air sodomy is absurd.

Please dont forget people interracial marriage has only been legal since 1967, and at the time black people were getting blasted with fire hoses and mauled by police dogs just to get equal rights.
Its a long hard road but someday the regime has to change if we want to continue touting ourselves as having the most free country in the world.

[drift_limo]

Hillary Duff says not to use the word "gay"
like as in "dude that car was so gay" true story saw that commercial last night.

I kinda see that but then again i've had gay friends are used it around them they was cool in that sense just aslong as you dont mean it in a offensive way.

marriage gonna happen some day for them sillys you know.

ITs just the way people are brought up. I have friends that hates gays to the fullest ..

to each there own.

[ryguy]

I kinda see that but then again i've had gay friends are used it around them they was cool in that sense just aslong as you dont mean it in a offensive way.


Depends on the gay person. In my experience they're usually cool with it.

[yota man]

I pretty much agree with everyone one here except slowpo. I'm heterosexual and one of my room mates is gay. When she brings her girlfriend over here it doesn't affect me at. There have been times when she's had a lot of her friends over. I've never had any of them have any sort of hate towards me from them. Nothing that they've done has every had any negative affect on me.

I feel as though if any of them ever decided that they wanted to spend the rest of there life together that they should be allowed to. It would have no negative affect on me. They should be able to have the same rights as me if I were to get married to my girl friend.

[coreansurfer]

all people should have equal rights and protection under the law. as for gay/sexist/racial/religious slurs: all people need to have thicker skin. words are just words-get over it

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

so......it's illegal for 2 dudes to get married? where's the crime? Oh yeah, THERE IS NONE. Where's the victim? Oh yeah, THERE IS NONE!

God has WWWWWAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY too much hold in state laws. It's a damn shame. Honestly, the only reason why it's illegal is because people think being gay is gay.

[SUPERSTAR]

Hi.


that is all.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Hi.


that is all.
hhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeee

:ghey:

back at ya big boy

[SUPERSTAR]

Straight is Gay, join the sideways movement.

kisses*

[EDacIouSX]

The reason they're going ON and ON about not having rights is because they DON'T have the rights that straight married couples do.



Last time I checked... a straight man and a gay man can both marry a woman and a straight man and a gay man cannot marry another guy.

Sounds pretty fair to me.

[EDacIouSX]

so......it's illegal for 2 dudes to get married? where's the crime? Oh yeah, THERE IS NONE. Where's the victim? Oh yeah, THERE IS NONE!

God has WWWWWAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY too much hold in state laws. It's a damn shame. Honestly, the only reason why it's illegal is because people think being gay is gay.

god created marriage. your right, lets just get rid of marraige all together that way there's no discussion.



My only problem with gay marraige is the fact it's called marraige. I don't care what its called, just dont' call it marriage because that's NOT what it is. Besides, dont' civil unions give all the rights a marraige does?

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Last time I checked... a straight man and a gay man can both marry a woman and a straight man and a gay man cannot marry another guy.

Sounds pretty fair to me.
again, victimless crime. why is it prohibited again? oh yes, because people love to hate the gaaaaaaaays.
And you know what? It's accepted to hate the gays. sad sad world we live in.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

god created marriage. your right, lets just get rid of marraige all together that way there's no discussion.



My only problem with gay marraige is the fact it's called marraige. I don't care what its called, just dont' call it marriage because that's NOT what it is. Besides, dont' civil unions give all the rights a marraige does?
ahahahahaha. god CREATED marriage? Not only do you have much to learn but you have to learn to say things on websites that just aren't true. Marriage has existed LOOOOOOONG before the bible. The Christian form of marriage is just what you're more familiar with and as long as the country mixes church and state then they'll probably be no gay marriage. But you see, this country was created to escape religious prosecution so you then have a conundrum. :-/

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

My only problem with gay marraige is the fact it's called marraige. I don't care what its called, just dont' call it marriage because that's NOT what it is. Besides, dont' civil unions give all the rights a marraige does?
nnnnooooooooooooope.

[EDacIouSX]

again, victimless crime. why is it prohibited again? oh yes, because people love to hate the gaaaaaaaays.
And you know what? It's accepted to hate the gays. sad sad world we live in.

how in the world did victimless crime get in here?


Seriously, the gay peopel want "gay marriage" and the straight people aren't for marraige... The gays want all the rights married couples do (and they do in my state, its just not called marraige) and the straight people don't want them to have any rights at all.


So, doesn't it make sense to meet somewhere in the middle? Allow a form of marraige but dont' call it marraige?

Both parties have to give some to get some, right now the gays want it all.

The Christian form of marriage is just what you're more familiar with and as long as the country mixes church and state then they'll probably be no gay marriage. But you see, this country was created to escape religious prosecution so you then have a conundrum. :-/

Um, which church is beign endorsed here? And, how do you even know its called a church? Mosque perhaps?

AND, who is being persecuted under any Religious belief? I don't see anything in the constitution about a certain religion, maybe you might wanna check out that constitution sometime and notice that all it says is "GOD".

nnnnooooooooooooope.

You are one rude guy. Each state varies, it may not be 100% the same but its pretty damn close in my state.

[murda-c]

how in the world did victimless crime get in here?


Seriously, the gay peopel want "gay marriage" and the straight people aren't for marraige... The gays want all the rights married couples do (and they do in my state, its just not called marraige) and the straight people don't want them to have any rights at all.


So, doesn't it make sense to meet somewhere in the middle? Allow a form of marraige but dont' call it marraige?

Both parties have to give some to get some, right now the gays want it all.



Um, which church is beign endorsed here? And, how do you even know its called a church? Mosque perhaps?

AND, who is being persecuted under any Religious belief? I don't see anything in the constitution about a certain religion, maybe you might wanna check out that constitution sometime and notice that all it says is "GOD".



You are one rude guy. Each state varies, it may not be 100% the same but its pretty damn close in my state.

pretty damn close doesn't really work...

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

how in the world did victimless crime get in here?


Seriously, the gay peopel want "gay marriage" and the straight people aren't for marraige... The gays want all the rights married couples do (and they do in my state, its just not called marraige) and the straight people don't want them to have any rights at all.


So, doesn't it make sense to meet somewhere in the middle? Allow a form of marraige but dont' call it marraige?

Both parties have to give some to get some, right now the gays want it all.
so blacks could drink water and use the bathroom but they can't use MY bathroom.
Yeah, sounds stupid now doesn't it?
And most straits want gays to have equal rights. I'm a very strait man and want everyone to have equal rights. Along with YOU to have the right to pray to any god you so chose. But to pick and chose what freedoms you want to take away is antiAmerican, my friend.



Um, which church is beign endorsed here? And, how do you even know its called a church? Mosque perhaps?

AND, who is being persecuted under any Religious belief? I don't see anything in the constitution about a certain religion, maybe you might wanna check out that constitution sometime and notice that all it says is "GOD".
Oh, I'm sorry, both Thomas Jefferson and the United States Supreme Court is wrong. Excuse my errors.



You are one rude guy. Each state varies, it may not be 100% the same but its pretty damn close in my state.
Same state as you pal, and if one mans partner is in the hospital only his spouce and family could see them. So their partner wouldn't be able to see them in their last moments. Not only that but property has no bearing either.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

pretty damn close doesn't really work...
I'm sure the black drinking fountain was next to the all whites drinking fountain. ehhhh, close enough.

[EDacIouSX]

um mi beardo es loco, what the FUCK are you talking about???

can you try to stay on topic here. what the fuck does black men and drinking fountains have to do with gays at all??

being GAY is not a race. There are GAY black guys, GAY white guys and GAY asian guys believe it or not.


There was no RACISM involved here, RACE. Being gay is NOT A RACE you retard. You can't be of the BLACK race and the GAY race at the same time can you? NO.



And you know what jackass, if the laws aren't exactly the same then fight to make those laws equal. You are one of those of super liberal in your face assholes cause you are so damn passionate about this and is all pissed off. Seriously, you can't even contribute to a topic without going off on tangents.

Can you seriously not see what I'm saying? COMPROMISE.




And explain your comments jackass, united states and Thomas Jefferson? Like I'm suppose to know what you are referring to.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

um mi beardo es loco, what the FUCK are you talking about???

can you try to stay on topic here. what the fuck does black men and drinking fountains have to do with gays at all??

being GAY is not a race. There are GAY black guys, GAY white guys and GAY asian guys believe it or not.


There was RACISM involved here, RACE. Being gay is NOT A RACE you retard. You can't be of the BLACK race and the GAY race at the same time can you? NO.



And you know what jackass, if the laws aren't exactly the same then fight to make those laws equal. You are one of those of super liberal in your face assholes cause you are so damn passionate about this and is all pissed off. Seriously, you can't even contribute to a topic without going off on tangents.

Can you seriously not see what I'm saying? COMPROMISE.




And explain your comments jackass, united states and Thomas Jefferson? Like I'm suppose to know what you are referring to.
It's ok man, you can just say it......you hate slur. That's what this is all about, hate. You HATE the idea of a man suckin a dick so you have to think that it's ok they have no rights. So what if a man likes a large black penis in their ass. So what. Who's the victim? the pitcher or the catcher?
Nah, so hate em all and not let em get married.
And I'm a liberal asshole because I think there should be equal rights for all in America.
Strong words from a Libertarian to a man who doesn't understand seperation of church and state. It's like talking to a wall.....with a picture of Jesus on it.

[Matej]

Funny thing is a friend of mine has a gay uncle who teaches Sunday school for the local Catholic church.
Another funny thing is male priests making love to boys.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Another funny thing is catholic priests making love to boys.
And the fact that the current Pope was not only a Nazi but a man who was fully responsible for conceling the fact that priests touched little boys by transferring that priest.

[SUPERSTAR]

Gays are cool and they also deserve to have rights, wether we think is right or wrong to play tummy sticks.

[!Zar!]

Main Entry: mar·riage
Pronunciation: \ˈmer-ij, ˈma-rij\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English mariage, from Anglo-French, from marier to marry
Date: 14th century
1 a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage> b : the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage
2 : an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities
3 : an intimate or close union <the marriage of painting and poetry — J. T. Shawcross>

I'll ask my question to EDacIouSX
I understand your dislike for whatever reason about gay people. But you haven't even touched on what this thread is really about.

I have one question for you. Why shouldn't gay people be allowed to marry?

Personally I know many gay people; Who also say things are gay and make gay jokes just as most other people.

I don't see a reason why they shouldn't be allowed to marry. Let them be happy. The chances for them to adopt are much higher than a straight family. That means that you can give kids in foster care hope, happiness, and stability.

People don't, "choose" to be gay. I know people who have been caught in the struggle of denial growing up as a child. Going so far as forcing themselves to do what they think is, "normal". Eventually some end up finding out the truth while others end up fighting the struggle their whole life.

What if a man gets a sex change. Does that mean he can still marry a woman because he was born a man?

What about a hermaphrodite? Who are they allowed to marry?

I'm a Christian. Does that mean I disagree with gay marriage? No. Everyone is quick to say gay marriage is a sin. But so is causing people pain and agony.

So what would you think is a worse sin? Stopping people from marrying because you don't feel it's holy and causing them a lifetime of misery or allowing them to marry?

Everybody sins. Let them marry, it isn't a big deal.

The only people against it are the people who haven't had any real interaction with homosexuals. From how most speak, they act like gay people are sex crazed nymphos who want to fuck every living and breathing person that is their same gender.

Shit, I've been hit on MANY times by gay people. I find it funny as well as a complement.

[Touge Noob S13]

Another funny thing is male priests making love to boys.


Quite an ignorant statement dont you think? Do you even know any Catholics?

[SochBAT]

I have a good number of gay/lesbian friends. They are awesome people.

HONK IF YOU LIKE GIRLS KISSING!

[Future240]

Gay people are just people to me. I don't care what sexually excites you, that is your business. I have been hit on by a gay dude blatantly and didn't care. Its not that big of a deal.

I judge a person by what kind of person they are, not what they do in the bedroom. I agree with Chris Rock on gay marriage. "Gay people have every right to be miserably married as the rest of us"

[FaLKoN240]

Last time I checked... a straight man and a gay man can both marry a woman and a straight man and a gay man cannot marry another guy.

Sounds pretty fair to me.

This statement to me is irrelevant.

What is the point in marrying someone you don't have real feelings for?

Also, why would you want the marriage rights to someone you don't care about.

The whole issue on gay marriage is the rights between the pair of gays don't exist.

I don't give a shit about a gay man marrying a woman, that's not what this is about.

Off topic: I know a gay man that married a woman and had 2 kids and after 30+ years of being married he came out that he was gay.

um mi beardo es loco, what the FUCK are you talking about???

can you try to stay on topic here. what the fuck does black men and drinking fountains have to do with gays at all??

being GAY is not a race. There are GAY black guys, GAY white guys and GAY asian guys believe it or not.


There was no RACISM involved here, RACE. Being gay is NOT A RACE you retard. You can't be of the BLACK race and the GAY race at the same time can you? NO.



And you know what jackass, if the laws aren't exactly the same then fight to make those laws equal. You are one of those of super liberal in your face assholes cause you are so damn passionate about this and is all pissed off. Seriously, you can't even contribute to a topic without going off on tangents.

Can you seriously not see what I'm saying? COMPROMISE.




And explain your comments jackass, united states and Thomas Jefferson? Like I'm suppose to know what you are referring to.

The reason he's bringing up the whole black rights thing is that black people are born black, and there's nothing they can do to change that.

They were discriminated on something they were born with. Not much you can do to change that.

Just like homosexuals are born being attracted to members of same sex.

You're not really trying here.

I don't even know why I'm replying to you, everyone's statements fall on deaf ears.

Also, the only one getting really up in arms over this whole thing is you.

You're getting all defensive when you came in here and stated your ideas and beliefs.

[ms!3]

I don't believe in gay marriage. But honestly I just stopped giving a fuck. Marriage really isn't even taken seriously now a days. I've got buddies in the marine corps that have been hitched just so they don't have to live in the barracks. Not to mention the extra cash. World is going to shit. I give up. Lol

[ronmcdon]

I have a good number of gay/lesbian friends. They are awesome people.

HONK IF YOU LIKE GIRLS KISSING!

hot (prefferably bi) girls making out is one thing.
beer-bellied butches doing their thing is, well, i'll just mind my own business.

[RUTH'LESSDET]

I agree with ms!3(what are you some fucking gangbanger or something)
I think gay people should be able to be domestic partners and share benefits just like a normal married couple and if they so chose but I think should be able to be LEGALLY married that is just out of the question....somethings just ain't right man...fu*k that two men being married just ain't right!!!! If you just listen to the vows that a pastor or officiant has to say during a wedding everything has to be modified for two men or even two women...its just weird......But at the end of the day when I think about this whole thing who really give a fu*k if you want to marry another man go ahead......everything else in this world is F'd up and going down hill anyway might as well be happy.

[SUPERSTAR]

Here is my suggestion to this and will help you guys understand it better.

Find a gay dude that you know and fuck each others brains out and see how you feel the next day. You might change your mind, you may not. But tell us after.

[Drift N Dragg]

Here is my suggestion to this and will help you guys understand it better.

Find a gay dude that you know and fuck each others brains out and see how you feel the next day. You might change your mind, you may not. But tell us after.


DUDE!!!! :hitit: only for you Ernie...

I love reading some of your Posts... Down right Funny...

[!Zar!]

Yeah, because gay guys take the first piece of dick offered to them.

[g-via]

guys marrying guys = more pussy for me.

most girls who turn gay aren't worth it anyways...(most)

[Matej]

Quite an ignorant statement dont you think? Do you even know any Catholics?
Yes, pretty much my entire family.

[RUTH'LESSDET]

Here is my suggestion to this and will help you guys understand it better.

Find a gay dude that you know and fuck each others brains out and see how you feel the next day. You might change your mind, you may not. But tell us after.

:rl::rl::rl::rl::rl::rl::rl::rl::rl::rl::rl::rl::r l:

[FaLKoN240]

Yes, pretty much my entire family.

Burn .

[Touge Noob S13]

Burn .

Yes, probrobly some ignorance on my part too for thinking the mid-west is nothing but protestents.

[Walperstyle]

Personally, think its kinda disgusting. But then again, I like some pretty kinky stuff with the mrs.

Whatever you do at home is up to you.

[cc4usmc]

Whatever you do at home is up to you.

Key word being home.

[Vision Garage]

Key question is once gays are allowed to married. Should they be allowed to adopt kids?

[yota man]

Key question is once gays are allowed to married. Should they be allowed to adopt kids?

They already can. You can be single and adopt. To be able to adopt you have to prove that you can provide a good and loving upbringing to a child. Single women or men can do this, so can gays or straights.

They even have there own adoption agency (its not uncommon for minorities to have adoption agencies that understand the unique problems that come with their particular group adopting children).

Information for Gay and Lesbian families seeking to adopt through open adoption. (http://gaylesbianadoption.org/gay_lesbian_adoption/?gclid=CLL62-SY2p0CFRaenAodEmXJrQ)

However they do have trouble in some states having the actual adoption being recognized when its a same sex couple. I think alabama and Utah are states where it is bared.

[RUTH'LESSDET]

They already can. You can be single and adopt. To be able to adopt you have to prove that you can provide a good and loving upbringing to a child. Single women or men can do this, so can gays or straights.

They even have there own adoption agency (its not uncommon for minorities to have adoption agencies that understand the unique problems that come with their particular group adopting children).

Information for Gay and Lesbian families seeking to adopt through open adoption. (http://gaylesbianadoption.org/gay_lesbian_adoption/?gclid=CLL62-SY2p0CFRaenAodEmXJrQ)

However they do have trouble in some states having the actual adoption being recognized when its a same sex couple. I think alabama and Utah are states where it is bared.

See thats, that bullsh*t now when your kids come home from school, their asking you why little Mikey has TWO FATHERS, or TWO MOTHERS...........don't you guys realized things aren't supposed to go this way. If everybody is gay man kind will seise to exist. Until one of you nasty pillow biting bastards can fuck another man and produce a baby then maybe they should allow you to get married but until then HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!

[dudermagee]

gay thread is gay

[ThatGuy]

Do you realize how overpopulated the world is these days?

Do you realize how many children are abused, or end up dead because their BIRTH parents can't or won't care for them?

Gay unions and adoption help in both of those situations. Now, if you can't explain to your kids that people are different, and that they don't deserve to be ridiculed and condemned for not being just like you, then maybe you shouldn't be allowed to marry anyone or procreate yourself.

So much hate for what's different.

[yota man]

Do you realize how many children are abused, or end up dead because their BIRTH parents can't or won't care for them?

Gay unions and adoption help in both of those situations. Now, if you can't explain to your kids that people are different, and that they don't deserve to be ridiculed and condemned for not being just like you, then maybe you shouldn't be allowed to marry anyone or procreate yourself.

So much hate for what's different.

Thank you ThatGuy for that post. I'm glad to hear that there are parents out there who are raising there kids the way I was raised and the way I WILL raise my kids when I have them. Some times I feel like I'm one of only people who feels that way in the south.

People need to get off their high horses and realize that just because a group of people is different than themselves that they aren't any better.

So what you live to a different set of morals RUTH'LESS DET. Who's to say that your morals are right.

I'm going to guess you've based your assumptions off of some sort of religious views. And if I'm wrong so be it. I went to a private school and took lots of religion classes. I can promise you in %90 of the religions we studied one of the biggest pillars of their teachings were that you were not to judge another person and deem yourself better than anyone else.

Does anything somebody being gay does to hurt you? Has your life ever been negatively affected by somebody being gay? The worst thing I can imagine is being in a somewhat awkward social situation that could easily be laughed off during or after the fact or solved with an easy apology.

So what if they raise their kid to be more open minded and accepting to peoples differences? Or that its ok to be who ever you really are and to be comfortable with yourself.

Kids can't be shielded for ever or from everything.

I don't see anyone getting upset when somebody adopts a baby and raises to some religion they don't agree with.

Sorry for the long rant. but living with someone who is gay and realizing the kind of stuff (esp being in the south) she goes through for being gay I'm amazed at how people act. People in her own family refuse to talk to her because she has a girlfriend now. I mean really to tell someone you no longer love them because of who they happened to fall in love with is b.s.

Also I want you to know that I KNOW I'm no better than any other person out there. I have my own problems and vices. I just believe that people need to learn to let others live there own live and to live your own. I try not to judge people by the mistakes they make and I could only hope others do that for me too.

To me a measure of a person is the good things they choose to do in life.

[Drift N Dragg]

So much hate for what's different.


That is the plain Truth right there.. History is full of this exact phrase.. War's were started based on that phrase.

[RUTH'LESSDET]

Thank you ThatGuy for that post. I'm glad to hear that there are parents out there who are raising there kids the way I was raised and the way I WILL raise my kids when I have them. Some times I feel like I'm one of only people who feels that way in the south.

People need to get off their high horses and realize that just because a group of people is different than themselves that they aren't any better.

So what you live to a different set of morals RUTH'LESS DET. Who's to say that your morals are right.

I'm going to guess you've based your assumptions off of some sort of religious views. And if I'm wrong so be it. I went to a private school and took lots of religion classes. I can promise you in %90 of the religions we studied one of the biggest pillars of their teachings were that you were not to judge another person and deem yourself better than anyone else.

Does anything somebody being gay does to hurt you? Has your life ever been negatively affected by somebody being gay? The worst thing I can imagine is being in a somewhat awkward social situation that could easily be laughed off during or after the fact or solved with an easy apology.

So what if they raise their kid to be more open minded and accepting to peoples differences? Or that its ok to be who ever you really are and to be comfortable with yourself.

Kids can't be shielded for ever or from everything.

I don't see anyone getting upset when somebody adopts a baby and raises to some religion they don't agree with.

Sorry for the long rant. but living with someone who is gay and realizing the kind of stuff (esp being in the south) she goes through for being gay I'm amazed at how people act. People in her own family refuse to talk to her because she has a girlfriend now. I mean really to tell someone you no longer love them because of who they happened to fall in love with is b.s.

Also I want you to know that I KNOW I'm no better than any other person out there. I have my own problems and vices. I just believe that people need to learn to let others live there own live and to live your own. I try not to judge people by the mistakes they make and I could only hope others do that for me too.

To me a measure of a person is the good things they choose to do in life.
you right i rest my case..........I just think its just absolutely sickening to think i man and another man should be married!!!!!
ADAM AND EVE, NOT ADAM AND STEVE!!!!!!

[Drift N Dragg]

you right i rest my case..........I just think its just absolutely sickening to think i man and another man should be married!!!!!
ADAM AND EVE, NOT ADAM AND STEVE!!!!!!


then stop watching Gay Porn.... :kiss:

[ThatGuy]

So your whole argument is simply against a Male/Male union?

Your fear and hatred seem to be based solely in ignorance.
The same thought process that said man should not sail the oceans, for FEAR that monsters would eat them.
FEAR that the world was flat, simply because ignorant men couldn't imagine anything beyond their sight range.
FEAR that allowing women to vote would lead to the overthrow of a male dominated culture.

FEAR that there really is a monster in your closet, and your right in there with him.

[yota man]

you right i rest my case..........I just think its just absolutely sickening to think i man and another man should be married!!!!!
ADAM AND EVE, NOT ADAM AND STEVE!!!!!!

The thing is these couples would be together with or without the title. No one is asking that every religion should honor their union. They want it from the state. The tax benefits, loan rates, the right to just be able to see the person they love if they are in the hospital and the family does not agree with their life style, or even to be able to make a critical decision when that person is in the hospital and they are the one that knows their partner the best. etc etc

Imagine your wife goes into a coma that she will never recover from. Shes on all kinds of life support. Machines are the only thing keeping her alive. Her wish was for you to pull the plug but her family, who may or may not have spoken to her in years and would have no idea what her views on the matter were, wont allow it and you have no say. She didn't get to write a living will but you know in your heart that you know her best and thats what she wanted. But still you have no say what so ever.

That is what it would be like if one of these couples were in that situation with out the title of a marriage.

I think all people should be allowed to be happy as long as it doesn't affect anyone but themselves. And if along the way they help some child who may have been doomed to be in the foster care system for their entire childhood then more power to them.

A loving home of any sorts is better than no home at all.

[Agamemnon]

I'm curious, what is a gay right and how will we give(or take) them away?

Can someone educate me on how a right differs according to sexual preference?

[FaLKoN240]

Do you realize how overpopulated the world is these days?

Do you realize how many children are abused, or end up dead because their BIRTH parents can't or won't care for them?

Gay unions and adoption help in both of those situations. Now, if you can't explain to your kids that people are different, and that they don't deserve to be ridiculed and condemned for not being just like you, then maybe you shouldn't be allowed to marry anyone or procreate yourself.

So much hate for what's different.

So your whole argument is simply against a Male/Male union?

Your fear and hatred seem to be based solely in ignorance.
The same thought process that said man should not sail the oceans, for FEAR that monsters would eat them.
FEAR that the world was flat, simply because ignorant men couldn't imagine anything beyond their sight range.
FEAR that allowing women to vote would lead to the overthrow of a male dominated culture.

FEAR that there really is a monster in your closet, and your right in there with him.

I have a new found respect for you now.

I'm curious, what is a gay right and how will we give(or take) them away?

Can someone educate me on how a right differs according to sexual preference?

Did you even read the post above yours?

They want it from the state. The tax benefits, loan rates, the right to just be able to see the person they love if they are in the hospital and the family does not agree with their life style, or even to be able to make a critical decision when that person is in the hospital and they are the one that knows their partner the best. etc etc

[cc4usmc]

They want it from the state. The tax benefits, loan rates, the right to just be able to see the person they love if they are in the hospital and the family does not agree with their life style, or even to be able to make a critical decision when that person is in the hospital and they are the one that knows their partner the best. etc etc


If that's what they want, why don't they just fight for the same benefits under a different title? They're not just fighting the state for this, they're fighting the people. I'm sure the people would be less likely to oppose them if their treasured "marriage" title wasn't in danger of being tarnished.

[drift freaq]

If that's what they want, why don't they just fight for the same benefits under a different title? They're not just fighting the state for this, they're fighting the people. I'm sure the people would be less likely to oppose them if their treasured "marriage" title wasn't in danger of being tarnished.

Ok I am going to say this. I think Gays should be allowed to be married. My father does not feel the same way. Its not so much that he hates them. He feels that they are born that way. He feels its not how God intended but he also feels God accepts things and cannot condemn them. Now he is a Devout Christian born in a very different time.

The only argument anyone can give against Gay marriage is solely based on a Religious reasons. Now honestly there is nothing in the Bible that says Gays should not marry. Their is wording that suggests men should not lie with men but that is as far as it goes. Of course their are statements about Sodomy but again that is not clearly delineated.

Now given that some things in the Bible may have been rewritten or warped by man to better rule or control his subjects one sometimes wonders where truth delineates from fiction.

In a sense the U.S. was founded on the basis of separation of Church and State. So in that sense the Government should have the right to allow gay marriage.

What galls me the most these days is how some of the religious in recent times have chosen to warp that separation and influence politics with their own agenda. In fact they push their religious views on others through politics these days.
Abortion rights, Gay marriage? If America really has true separation of state then these things should be allowed.

It has nothing to do with if you agree or not is has to do with staying true to what the founding fathers envisioned Separation of Church and State.

If they state can perform civil marriages then the state should be able to perform Gay marriages. Plain and simple.

[yota man]

If that's what they want, why don't they just fight for the same benefits under a different title? They're not just fighting the state for this, they're fighting the people. I'm sure the people would be less likely to oppose them if their treasured "marriage" title wasn't in danger of being tarnished.

The thing is what would you call it? The state calls it a marriage. They want what that comes with that. It would be the same thing no matter what its called, so why shouldn't they be allowed to have a marriage?

The real issue is that they want equal rights that we have. I feel that it would kind of be a slap in the face if we were like "ok you can have all the benefits but we're going to make a new legal standard that uses a different word because we don't want you to have the precious title of marriage."

Honestly it kind of sounds like to me "separate but equal." I imagine it would just open up a new can of worms there and people could use what title they have against them. Like if they went for a loan and a bank didnt want to give them the rate for a married couple they could just say "oh well this is for married couples not (insert what term they'd call it) couples. Sorry."

[cc4usmc]

drift-So you're saying the state should marry two men or women regardless of what the people want?

yota- If I was gay and just wanted the benefit a marriage offers, I wouldn't really care what it was called. Would you?

To me, it sounds like they want the marriage title because they want to force people to accept their relationship. Now, like drift said, many people are against it for only religious reasons. You might be able to separate Church from State, but you cannot force Church from the People of the State. If the majority of the people of the State of California do not want to allow gay marriages for whatever reason, then it shouldn't happen. And, with Prop 8 passing, it won't.

I'm no expert at this at all, this is just how I feel. I have bisexual friend, and I'm going to be honest, it makes me feel uncomfortable when he jokes about playing with men. I don't think it's right, but I'm not going to condemn someone just because that's how they are. But I don't appreciate when Mormon's come knockin at my door, trying to force their religion on me. Say thing goes for homosexuals. Do what you do, but have respect for those who don't accept, and from me you'll get respect. (Damn, I like the way that sounds. Time for a copyright lol)

[yota man]

So you're saying the state should marry two men or women regardless of what the people want?

There was a time when a majority of the population was ok with slavery. Finally some people had the balls to stand up and say "hey these people aren't the same as me but they are still people. And here in America we should all have the right be happy no matter what are differences are."

I know that my example is a little more extreme but I feel like it has the same foundation and problem. People even used some of the same arguments against gay rights that people used for segregation.

People denying others rights just because they are different is NOT what America is about. At least to me it shouldnt be.

[Bubbles]

How long did it take until people realized they shouldn't be mistreating people because of their skin color?


May be waiting a while for same sex marriages to be commonplace.

[drift freaq]

drift-So you're saying the state should marry two men or women regardless of what the people want?

yota- If I was gay and just wanted the benefit a marriage offers, I wouldn't really care what it was called. Would you?

To me, it sounds like they want the marriage title because they want to force people to accept their relationship. Now, like drift said, many people are against it for only religious reasons. You might be able to separate Church from State, but you cannot force Church from the People of the State. If the majority of the people of the State of California do not want to allow gay marriages for whatever reason, then it shouldn't happen. And, with Prop 8 passing, it won't.

I'm no expert at this at all, this is just how I feel. I have bisexual friend, and I'm going to be honest, it makes me feel uncomfortable when he jokes about playing with men. I don't think it's right, but I'm not going to condemn someone just because that's how they are. But I don't appreciate when Mormon's come knockin at my door, trying to force their religion on me. Say thing goes for homosexuals. Do what you do, but have respect for those who don't accept, and from me you'll get respect. (Damn, I like the way that sounds. Time for a copyright lol)

Prop 8 vote was rigged and abused by the religious right. It was pure bullshit. Oh and it has nothing to do with conspiracy. the Religious right campaigned and seriously mislead the general public with their commercials and statements about prop 8 . On top of that several out of state religious organizations dumper serious stacks of money into that campaign. It was not fair or truthful by any stretch of the imagination and the California public got duped by the Religious right.

As far as your bisexual friend being inappropriate around you? You should let him now that it makes you feel uncomfortable. It's like talking about girls private stuff around girls.
There are always going to be people saying inappropriate things in inappropriate places. This is not something that only happens with Gays or bisexuals.

[cc4usmc]

How exactly did they dupe people?

[drift freaq]

How exactly did they dupe people?

they said things in the advertisment that were not exactly what the prop said. On top of this I know where you are going with this. You do not agree with the idea nor are you going to. So rather than trying to argue it with you? I am going to end it here.

You don't agree with my views and obviously that means I do not agree with yours. No matter how much explaining I do you will find a way to argue you it as I would with you.
So in other words I will agree to disagree and leave it that.

Otherwise we will just down the road of back and forth which you are pushing so hard.

[cc4usmc]

What the fuck? You are terribly wrong with that assumption of yours, as I had no direction what so ever with that question. I have no idea what you were talking about, so I wanted hear your side. I don't think I've displayed any hostility at all in my, what, 3 posts, so I don't know what your problem is. I hope they make a ladder high enough to reach that horse you're on. Bye bye.

[Agamemnon]

The real issue is that they want equal rights that we have.

What rights do straight people have that gays do not?

[Agamemnon]

Did you even read the post above yours?
A better question is, did you even understand mine?

You never answered the two questions asked.

[Future240]

A better question is, did you even understand mine?

You never answered the two questions asked.

I got it, the answers are a "gay" right is the same as a "straight" right. There should be no gay rights as they people who are gay are still people and should be entitled to all the rights as non-gay people.

I see it very simply. To not give a person rights due to their age, sex, skin color, are all classic examples of discrimination. So how can people argue doing the same for sexual preference isn't discrimination?

[murda-c]

See thats, that bullsh*t now when your kids come home from school, their asking you why little Mikey has TWO FATHERS, or TWO MOTHERS...........don't you guys realized things aren't supposed to go this way. If everybody is gay man kind will seise to exist. Until one of you nasty pillow biting bastards can fuck another man and produce a baby then maybe they should allow you to get married but until then HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!


Nasty pillow biting bastards?

You're cutting it real close sweetheart.

[RNGWLD]

A loving home of any sorts is better than no home at all.

Is there a dire lack of straight couples waiting to adopt?


I agree with "gay rights", my only problem is that many gays are extremists in that you are either 110% with them in everything, or you are a "homophobic insecure bigot" :squint:

I have no problems with a man finding love with another man, if thats what makes him happy. Or with gay couples being granted visiting rights etc. Coming from south america, I find it sickening to attack someone because they are gay, or the bullying that goes on in schools against them.

BUT

I do have a problem with the mentality of encouraging kids to "experiment" to find out if they are gay or not, and I will have a huge problem when I come home and see my kids watching "Disney's Prince Charming and Prince Enchanting, a version for gays", which is what we are moving forward too.

I think that having both a female and male figure is crucial for the development of a child. No matter how much "love" you have, a man cannot fully replace a female mother for a little girl, and no matter how much "love" you have, a woman cannot take the full place of a father figure for a little boy. And I say this as someone who was raised by a mother and grew up with 3 sisters. Sorry, but that's reality. Whether you think that a secure and functional gay couple can provide a loving home to a child or not (which in many cases obviously is the case), it will never be the same as a secure and functional family where there is a mother/father figure.

Now I'll just sit here and wait being judged as a homophobic bigot :mepoke:

[Future240]

I agree with "gay rights", my only problem is that many gays are extremists in that you are either 110% with them in everything, or you are a "homophobic insecure bigot"

How many gay people have you actually met and talked to? While there are extreme gay people(there are extremes in all categories of people), all the gay people I have met and talked to have been just regular people.

The media makes it seem like the gay community is so extreme and demanding, when in truth the most of them don't try to force gay on others. There are several gay zilvia members, but have you seen them be the gay extreme and preach about how we are all bigots? No.

I am not calling you a bigot or saying your entire post is wrong. I am just pointing out one part that is a partial untruth.

[murda-c]

I think that having both a female and male figure is crucial for the development of a child. No matter how much "love" you have, a man cannot fully replace a female mother for a little girl, and no matter how much "love" you have, a woman cannot take the full place of a father figure for a little boy. And I say this as someone who was raised by a mother and grew up with 3 sisters. Sorry, but that's reality. Whether you think that a secure and functional gay couple can provide a loving home to a child or not (which in many cases obviously is the case), it will never be the same as a secure and functional family where there is a mother/father figure.

Now I'll just sit here and wait being judged as a homophobic bigot :mepoke:

Just wondering, do you believe single parents should be allowed to adopt?

[!Zar!]

If that's what they want, why don't they just fight for the same benefits under a different title? They're not just fighting the state for this, they're fighting the people. I'm sure the people would be less likely to oppose them if their treasured "marriage" title wasn't in danger of being tarnished.
So you want to trick a huge majority of the people by giving them marriage rights but without the title? That's no different than Jim Crow Laws.

Prop 8 vote was rigged and abused by the religious right. It was pure bullshit. Oh and it has nothing to do with conspiracy. the Religious right campaigned and seriously mislead the general public with their commercials and statements about prop 8 . On top of that several out of state religious organizations dumper serious stacks of money into that campaign. It was not fair or truthful by any stretch of the imagination and the California public got duped by the Religious right.


That whole vote no on prop 8 means you are for gay marriage was dumb. I know MANY, MANY people who voted YES thinking it would be FOR gay marriage. I even know a gay person who was going around pro prop 8 until I educated them.

How exactly did they dupe people?
See above. Not to mention gay marriage was legalized and then taken away.

What rights do straight people have that gays do not?
The ability to have life choices. The ability to adopt without the expensive and long drawn out process that it currently entails.

Don't forget that taxes as well as health care, ability to sue for death, property, insurance. So many things that straight people take for granted.

Gay people aren't trying to legalize marriage so they can fuck like rabbits on the streets.

Is there a dire lack of straight couples waiting to adopt?

I do have a problem with the mentality of encouraging kids to "experiment" to find out if they are gay or not, and I will have a huge problem when I come home and see my kids watching "Disney's Prince Charming and Prince Enchanting, a version for gays", which is what we are moving forward too.

I think that having both a female and male figure is crucial for the development of a child. No matter how much "love" you have, a man cannot fully replace a female mother for a little girl, and no matter how much "love" you have, a woman cannot take the full place of a father figure for a little boy. And I say this as someone who was raised by a mother and grew up with 3 sisters. Sorry, but that's reality. Whether you think that a secure and functional gay couple can provide a loving home to a child or not (which in many cases obviously is the case), it will never be the same as a secure and functional family where there is a mother/father figure.

Now I'll just sit here and wait being judged as a homophobic bigot :mepoke:
I haven't seen any, "forcing kids to experiment". Even gay couples that I know who have kids don't force their kid to be gay. I'm pretty sure they would rather them grow up without the headache and hardship that they went in to.

As for development, what's better, a kid stuck in foster care, or a kid who's been brought up in a loving home?

Honestly, knowing that you've been adopted at ANY age can fuck with your head. Be it to a straight or gay family. But I'm damn sure that a kid will end up better off knowing that they are in a loving family instead of bouncing between foster homes and adoption agencies.

How many gay people have you actually met and talked to? While there are extreme gay people(there are extremes in all categories of people), all the gay people I have met and talked to have been just regular people.

The media makes it seem like the gay community is so extreme and demanding, when in truth the most of them don't try to force gay on others. There are several gay zilvia members, but have you seen them be the gay extreme and preach about how we are all bigots? No.

I am not calling you a bigot or saying your entire post is wrong. I am just pointing out one part that is a partial untruth.
Pretty much. Good ol media. America likes to see fucked up stuff. That's why they always have one gay person, one ghetto black person and four other, "normal" people on Real World and stuff. Even on the news they seem to find the most flamboyant gay man possible to ask questions on tv. Or find the most ghetto, uneducated black person and ask them a question.

Why, because america likes making a mockery of it.

[drift freaq]

What the fuck? You are terribly wrong with that assumption of yours, as I had no direction what so ever with that question. I have no idea what you were talking about, so I wanted hear your side. I don't think I've displayed any hostility at all in my, what, 3 posts, so I don't know what your problem is. I hope they make a ladder high enough to reach that horse you're on. Bye bye.

Hmmm excuse me, it seemed all your questioning pointed towards a difference of opinion. Reread your own statements. I am not talking about hostility. It cracks me up that people on this forum immediately consider a debate or argument as a form of hostility.

I seriously was tired last night and did not feel like getting into a debate that I felt would go on for awhile. Based on your questions and statements of where you stood it looked that way. Again, reread your own posts.


I was pointing some basic facts about the vote and your general disposition proved you already would not have agreed.

So why debate or argue. I do the gentlemanly thing of bowing out and agreeing to disagree and you can call it hostile and stuck up? LOL

Do someone a gesture of not going down the road of disagreement and they get offended. LOL

Dude you seriously need to look at your reaction to this. What I did had nothing to do with me feeling you were hostile or hostility on my part. It did have to do with nothing more than feeling it that the debate would go nowhere.

I call your position which you had previous stated and you get upset about it? You accuse me of getting on a high horse?
Wow just fucking wow. Excuse me for trying to do both of us a favor.

[yota man]

Is there a dire lack of straight couples waiting to adopt?

I think that having both a female and male figure is crucial for the development of a child. No matter how much "love" you have, a man cannot fully replace a female mother for a little girl, and no matter how much "love" you have, a woman cannot take the full place of a father figure for a little boy. And I say this as someone who was raised by a mother and grew up with 3 sisters. Sorry, but that's reality. Whether you think that a secure and functional gay couple can provide a loving home to a child or not (which in many cases obviously is the case), it will never be the same as a secure and functional family where there is a mother/father figure.

Now I'll just sit here and wait being judged as a homophobic bigot :mepoke:

The problem is that there aren't alot of couples who adopt. With all the new ways a man and wife can have a kid of their own has drastically reduced the amount of couples who cant have a child at all. Which means less people going the adoption route.

I was raised by mother and sister also and I do agree with what you said but I take it back to what I said before any loving home is better than no home. I couldn't imagine having to grow up with with no mother or father. Being passed along between foster homes and hoping and waiting that someday someone would want to take me and give me a home.

[Agamemnon]

The ability to have life choices. The ability to adopt without the expensive and long drawn out process that it currently entails.

Don't forget that taxes as well as health care, ability to sue for death, property, insurance. So many things that straight people take for granted.

Gay people aren't trying to legalize marriage so they can fuck like rabbits on the streets.They can already adopt. They already receive the same tax benefits as a married couple. They can already sue for death, property, and insurance.

What does fucking like rabbits have anything to do your arguement.

[!Zar!]

They can already adopt. They already receive the same tax benefits as a married couple. They can already sue for death, property, and insurance.

What does fucking like rabbits have anything to do your arguement.

No they do not. Only a few states allow full marriage rights (Connecticut, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Vermont). These states can only provide this on a local level. So on a federal level same sex marriage will not have equal rights nor receive the full benefits of a marriage.

It is a drawn out and expensive process to gain domestic partnership legally. That costs a lot of money just to gain power of attorney and health care decisions and, inheritance that are normally obtained through marriage.

Same-sex couples are not eligible to file jointly or separately as a married couple and thus cannot take the advantages of lower tax rates when the individual income of the partners differs significantly

The sex comment was towards everyone who seems to think that fucking is all they care about which isn't true.

[cc4usmc]

So you want to trick a huge majority of the people by giving them marriage rights but without the title? That's no different than Jim Crow Laws.
Who said anything about tricking people? I'm pretty sure that the word marriage hasn't been around since day one, and that it was created just like any other word. If they can create a word thousands of years ago to describe the union between a man and a woman, we can create a word today to describe the union of two people of the same sex.

Insert smug post full of garbage and some "wow's"

First off, isn't the Loud Noises area for debating sensitive subjects? If you're not up for debate, gtfo. Instead, you come in here and cry because a bunch of idiots couldn't actually read Prop 8 for themselves to know what it was and they naturally had blame someone else when they realized they voted opposite of what they had intended. And then, because my questions point towards a difference of opinion, you make some assumptions on that horse of yours and then try to "do us both a favor" and bounce. [Insert vagina smiley] Sounds like you bitched out of a "debate" that wasn't even there.

Stop making assumptions. I asked a couple simple question's and you assumed I was gonna rant and rave against you for the life of this thread. This is was pissed me off, because I came in here and attempted to have a civil convo with people and then you go and make that stupid post.

As far as my posts go, I don't need to reread them, I know exactly what I was saying and where I was going with them.

Now I'm going pull a drift freaq, and do everyone a favor bitch outta this thread for good. drift, if you're not too tired, feel free to continue this in a pm.

[Agamemnon]

No they do not. Only a few states allow full marriage rights (Connecticut, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Vermont). These states can only provide this on a local level. So on a federal level same sex marriage will not have equal rights nor receive the full benefits of a marriage.

It is a drawn out and expensive process to gain domestic partnership legally. That costs a lot of money just to gain power of attorney and health care decisions and, inheritance that are normally obtained through marriage.

Same-sex couples are not eligible to file jointly or separately as a married couple and thus cannot take the advantages of lower tax rates when the individual income of the partners differs significantly

The sex comment was towards everyone who seems to think that fucking is all they care about which isn't true.
Yes they do. Any benefits they receive will always be on a state level before the federal government will recognize civil unions. Thusly, states like California allow and require that all domestic partnerships must file jointly. And just so you know, there are no such things as marriage rights in the United States.

Domestic Partnerships are cheap and easy to get. $33 in fees and you're done. Some say it's faster and easier than getting a marriage license.

As for the comment about fucking like rabbits. I think just about everyone here gets the idea that gays aren't just doing this to fuck in the streets.

[slothonaleash]

Homosexuality is truly the final frontier for civil rights. We are treated as second class citizens and it disgusts me to see what's going on in America. I have sat through classes where kids openly bash gay people, and teachers sit there and laugh along with it. Just last month a guy that I had dated in the past was violently beaten in the head with a hammer between classes--the kid with the hammer had his facebook status set as "fuck yall f*ggots." He ended up with swelling in his brain and a massive concussion--he's alive thankfully.

I've lost friends, family, and my personal safety over the issue of whom I happen to be attracted to. It's okay to hate us, judge us, hurt us because of something I cannot help. It's okay to limit our rights and debase us to second class citizens because America is afraid to break away from the church, break away from fear of differences.

I appreciate the discussion, especially the individuals seeking to keep gay marriage abolished federally, it's always interesting to see what people think; as well as their motives.

[!Zar!]

Who said anything about tricking people? I'm pretty sure that the word marriage hasn't been around since day one, and that it was created just like any other word. If they can create a word thousands of years ago to describe the union between a man and a woman, we can create a word today to describe the union of two people of the same sex.
You said
If that's what they want, why don't they just fight for the same benefits under a different title? They're not just fighting the state for this, they're fighting the people. I'm sure the people would be less likely to oppose them if their treasured "marriage" title wasn't in danger of being tarnished.

Making them give it another name is trying to trick people into voting in their favor. The whole reason they are fighting for equality is to be treated the same. Not treated differently and forced to start their own partnership-marriage-ordeal-that-isn't-a-marriage-because-people-can't-cope thing.

People reasoning like you are why Jim Crow Laws came into effect. To you it sounds like a good idea because it isn't affecting you directly.

Yes they do. Any benefits they receive will always be on a state level before the federal government will recognize civil unions. Thusly, states like California allow and require that all domestic partnerships must file jointly. And just so you know, there are no such things as marriage rights in the United States.

Domestic Partnerships are cheap and easy to get. $33 in fees and you're done. Some say it's faster and easier than getting a marriage license.

As for the comment about fucking like rabbits. I think just about everyone here gets the idea that gays aren't just doing this to fuck in the streets.

So according to you gay people are making all of this a big deal and marriage is pointless and they actually have an easier time being gay then straight people do.

Sweet. Lets start telling the gay community they are blowing everything out of proportion and what they are fighting is pointless because they already have what they are fighting fore.

[Agamemnon]

So according to you gay people are making all of this a big deal and marriage is pointless and they actually have an easier time being gay then straight people do.

Sweet. Lets start telling the gay community they are blowing everything out of proportion and what they are fighting is pointless because they already have what they are fighting fore.
Who said anything about gays having it easier than straights? Do you think that calling a domestic partnership a marriage will make their lives easier in some fashion?

It would seem you are the one blowing things way beyond the scope of the conversation.

I just want a simple explanation of rights gays do not have that straight people have. That's all. Very simple.

[ThatGuy]

I just want a simple explanation of rights gays do not have that straight people have. That's all. Very simple.

The right to walk down the street or through the mall, holding hands with or kissing their significant other, without being stared at, ridiculed, and possibly attacked, either verbally or physically.

[Vision Garage]

My friend asked me this the other day at work.

DO YOU THINK PPL ARE BORN GAY OR IT IS A LIFE DECISION TO BECOME GAY?

Tell us what you think. I say that ppl are not born gay but BECOME gay from life experiences or from how they were raised.

[ThatGuy]

My friend asked me this the other day at work.

DO YOU THINK PPL ARE BORN GAY OR IT IS A LIFE DECISION TO BECOME GAY?

Tell us what you think. I say that ppl are not born gay but BECOME gay from life experiences or from how they were raised.

I believe it varies by individual. The same way straight people develop their "taste" for certain body types, hair color, personality, etc. In that right, I think it is as much a choice as a straight man choosing to talk that ONE girl in the group. It's just that in this situation, the guy would chose that one guy in the group to talk to.

Why do some people prefer blondes, redheads, brunettes, tall, short, skinny, etc, etc?

If you can come up with an accurate answer to that, then you should be able to accurately answer why some women prefer women over men, and some men prefer men over women.



Now, I think there can also be extenuating circumstances that help to "sway" some individuals. For example, it has been documented that some abused women have lost their trust of men through their abuse. As such, they are unable to feel intimate with a man, so they turn to other women.

So many factors to consider, and so many issues of the human psyche that we can't begin to understand as of yet.

But the thought process of so many people today seems to be... why try to understand anything, it's so much easier to ridicule and hate what we don't understand.

[Agamemnon]

The right to walk down the street or through the mall, holding hands with or kissing their significant other, without being stared at, ridiculed, and possibly attacked, either verbally or physically.

They have those rights already. You cant force someone not to stare at you. You cant force someone not to say things to you due to freedom of speech(although this is starting to change due to hate speech laws). However, it is against the law to be attacked physically wheather you are straight or gay, so you cant say that straights are protected and gays are not.

Eventually gays will be able to walk down the street hand in hand without feeling uneasy, but it will take time. It's not like flipping on a light switch. It just doesn't happen like that when it comes to social change.

[slothonaleash]

My friend asked me this the other day at work.

DO YOU THINK PPL ARE BORN GAY OR IT IS A LIFE DECISION TO BECOME GAY?

Tell us what you think. I say that ppl are not born gay but BECOME gay from life experiences or from how they were raised.

For me, I feel as if I was mainly born the way I am. I was always more interested in boys--even at a young age. I fell in love with my best friend throughout middle school (a guy), and so I came to terms with my sexuality around ninth grade. I have had passionate feelings for a female; they were just not even close to as strong as they are for the males I have been passionate for.

Nurture has little to nothing to do with me being a homosexual. I grew up in a gay-bashing family, I grew up with gay-bashing friends, and so I was very confused as to what to do. I have 'tried to be straight,' but when it comes down to it, it's just not worth forcing yourself to do things you don't feel right about.

[Agamemnon]

For me, I feel as if I was mainly born the way I am. I was always more interested in boys--even at a young age. I fell in love with my best friend throughout middle school (a guy), and so I came to terms with my sexuality around ninth grade. I have had passionate feelings for a female; they were just not even close to as strong as they are for the males I have been passionate for.

Nurture has little to nothing to do with me being a homosexual. I grew up in a gay-bashing family, I grew up with gay-bashing friends, and so I was very confused as to what to do. I have 'tried to be straight,' but when it comes down to it, it's just not worth forcing yourself to do things you don't feel right about.
Just out of curiousity, what are your thoughts about bisexuals? I used to think homosexuality was an "at birth" kinda thing, but then I thought about how bisexuals have a choice. It got my mind turning.

[!Zar!]

Personally I think people who are bisexual have a preference be it man or woman, but they are comfortable enough to have relations with a man/woman. The comfort level depends on the person.

I believe that's why the whole metrosexual thing came to be. People who like to do slightly feminine/masculine things but without having relations with the same party.

Bisexuality is along the same line but they feel comfortable with all people.

I think that a majority of homosexuals are born that way; but there are cases where one was betrayed or done wrong so bad that they will never want to go back to whichever sex they were first interested in.

A majority of the time I think it starts as one questioning themselves, then going through a struggle to figure ones self out. Then after a while be it a long or short time acceptance happens (or at least hopefully) then one would advance feeling relief.

Bisexuality is something that I think comes from more comfort than birth.

[slothonaleash]

Just out of curiousity, what are your thoughts about bisexuals? I used to think homosexuality was an "at birth" kinda thing, but then I thought about how bisexuals have a choice. It got my mind turning.

I believe that many people are bisexual at some level. I am of a low percentage of bisexual--I strongly prefer guys over girls. Most people are on the other end of the spectrum--they strongly prefer the opposite sex, to the point where they will absolutely not even think about a same sex relationship. True bisexuals are somewhere in the middle--most that I have talked to say that they are a bit more attracted to one sex over the other, but they refuse to discriminate between relationships they want over gender. In fact, many that I have talked to have only dated members of one sex, but they find themselves attracted to both sexes; heavily enough that they would consider having relations with either.

I don't deny the fact that environment has some effect on sexual orientation. It most certainly has an effect on who comes out of the closet. I'm willing to bet that someone you know is gay or bisexual, but they are simply not ready to come to terms with it due to environment or other internal struggles.

For me, environment had no factor--all it did was impede me from being myself. I cannot speak for others, but I know that 99.99 percent of all gay people you talk to will say that they did not choose their sexual orientation and that their environment never persuaded them toward being homosexual. That remaining .01 percent is probably in it for the attention.

[slothonaleash]

A majority of the time I think it starts as one questioning themselves, then going through a struggle to figure ones self out. Then after a while be it a long or short time acceptance happens (or at least hopefully) then one would advance feeling relief.
.

Zar I really like the way you are stating this. Boys (I'm gonna use males for this comment, as we are the majority) grow up told that they like girls. Now, most of these boys certainly do like girls, but there's that percentage that will be confused. They know they're supposed to like girls, so they look at girls and gawk with other guys about their sexual fantasies or whatever the fuck we did in middle school, but then they start to notice that they're looking at other boys more often. This can be extremely troubling--they start to feel as if something is terribly wrong with them. They can't help it but they just find boys more attractive than girls, then they may end up noticing that they don't like girls at all, maybe they like girls just as much as boys, or maybe it's some sort of mix in between. If middle school wasn't already terrible enough, now they have another pile of shit to deal with. Many end up coming to terms with themselves in high school, which is great. Others come out in college, some in their mid twenties, some may never come to terms with their inner feelings--it's a very sad position to be put in to think about

[RNGWLD]

How many gay people have you actually met and talked to? While there are extreme gay people(there are extremes in all categories of people), all the gay people I have met and talked to have been just regular people.

The media makes it seem like the gay community is so extreme and demanding, when in truth the most of them don't try to force gay on others. There are several gay zilvia members, but have you seen them be the gay extreme and preach about how we are all bigots? No.

I am not calling you a bigot or saying your entire post is wrong. I am just pointing out one part that is a partial untruth.

I've been shouted down in a college class because not agreeing 100% with everything the gay agenda wants to push forward. And if you follow the trends you will see that a big part of what is being pushed for, at least in academic circles and colleges, is a defense of a mentality that says "gay couples are 100% identical to straight couples, there is no difference whatsoever".


Sorry, that is the point where I do not agree. If you put a perfectly functional, loving gay couple next to a perfectly functional, loving straight one, I will still say a child's development will benefit more from growing with a mother and a father than with two men, or two women. Men and women are different, and I think it is good for a child to experience these differences. No matter which way you try to spin it, there are ways a mother can love you and things she does that a father would never be able to imitate, and there are certain ways a father loves and things he does for you that a mother, no matter how much she tries, would not be able to imitate either. The perfect, most beneficial way for a child to grow is to be exposed to the love of a mother and father figure.

If you want to see how extreme the gay right movement can be look at the U.K. For decades, the Catholic Church has been the main provider of foster homes and adoption services. Because Church policy is not to allow gay adoption, not long ago a law was passed which forbid Catholic adoption agencies from operating, claiming they followed discriminatory practices.

If the argument is "a gay home is better than a foster home" why did the gay movement push for this ban, which resulted in adoption agencies shutting down and making it even more difficult for foster kids to find a home? This "with us or against us mentality" is what I have a serious problem with, and one which I will continue to oppose.


Im out of this thread...I joined Zilvia for the marketplace, not to debate gay issues or whatever over the internet.

[driftpolice]

larry johnson hates gays apparently..and is paying for it dearly.

[Walperstyle]

I dont believe anyone should adopt kids.

why? because its the parents responsibility to take care of the children. This includes teaching them, and bringing them up to be respectful hard working successful people.

If you cant do this, dont have kids.

I'll solve this debate right now
let the gays adopt everyone that is in need of adoption, then shoot any future parent in the western world that isnt taking responsibility for having a kid. Even the most f'd up people should be able to wipe a dirty ass or put some food in the mouth of a kid. Its a part of growing up. Some of you might have to do it quicker. There is no excuse for giving up on your children.

[ThatGuy]

You do realize that all the children who are up for adoption aren't necesarily just abandoned/neglected kids, right?

I mean, if no one can adopt kids, then I guess if Timmy loses Mommy and Daddy in a car accident, he'll just have to buck up and take of himself?

I think you've stepped off the path of this conversation into your own debate.

[Walperstyle]

I mean, if no one can adopt kids, then I guess if Timmy loses Mommy and Daddy in a car accident, he'll just have to buck up and take of himself?


In my family usually the aunt or uncle, cousins, whomever best suited would take on the job. I had godparents so I was told.

thatguy, i'm just busting balls here, I wish more threads like this were closed because they are re-posts aren't they? lol :zzz:

[Future240]

I dont believe anyone should adopt kids.

why? because its the parents responsibility to take care of the children. This includes teaching them, and bringing them up to be respectful hard working successful people.

This is by far the most ignorant statement I have read in a long time. In the year 2000. 127,407 children of various ages were adopted. (Info taken from How Many Children Were Adopted in 2000 and 2001?: 1. Findings: Children Adopted (http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/s_adopted/s_adopteda.cfm)) If no one adopted all those kinds would just be left sitting in foster homes.

You ever consider maybe the parents are not fit to take care of those kids? Or how about those kids whose parents are dead? You said you had cousins and all that, but obviously if they are being adopted that option may not have been available to them.

I have a close friend who was adopted. Her mother did not have the ability to take care of her and they were no other people to take care of her so she was put up for adoption. A loving family took her in and raised her to be one of the kindest people I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. I met her in college as we were both being "be respectful, hard working and successful people".

As I type this your ignorance actual offends me. I am quite literally glaring in anger in the sheer amount of stupidity that I see before. This is one of those rare times when I really do wish stupidity was damn near fatal.








Now back on topic

Question to pose to yall. How do you think it effects(or any effect at all) a child's mine to see too gay people kissing, holding hands, etc.? I think they may be confused but with a simple explanation they will understand that some people are different but that doesn't mean they are bad people.

[dudermagee]

Question to pose to yall. How do you think it effects(or any effect at all) a child's mine to see too gay people kissing, holding hands, etc.? I think they may be confused but with a simple explanation they will understand that some people are different but that doesn't mean they are bad people.


This is an issue with me as well
or at least it will be in the near future as "Gays" are becoming more accepted and are everywhere media wise
How do I expalain without getting into the reason why gays are really different
I mean the only reason why gays are different is because they have sex with the same sex
thats the biggest issue\only issue that americans and others have with them
Most straight americans don't even want to talk about their sex life let alone have someone else's thrust upon them
For example:
If a dude says he's gay he is saying "I make out with dudes, suck dick, and take it in the butt"
I really don't want to know that, and I don't want my kids to know that
and kids are quick, they'll start noticing that shit before they are 8yrs old
"hey daddy, why are those 2 men holding hands and kissing?"
"uh because they love each other......?"
"oh so I can hold hands with timmy and kiss him?"
"Fuck no!"
shit you shouldn't have to explain sex to your kid until they are at least 11-12

[SUPERSTAR]

In my family usually the aunt or uncle, cousins, whomever best suited would take on the job. I had godparents so I was told.


Not everyone has that, I speak for myself and from personal experience.

Adoption is a must, what is wrong with you? Don't believe kids should be adopted, WOW....JUST WOW!!

[dudermagee]

Not everyone has that, I speak for myself and from personal experience.

Adoption is a must, what is wrong with you? Don't believe kids should be adopted, WOW....JUST WOW!!
ya if anything the adoption system in the us is broken\too tedious
that is why many families go overseas to get babies
easier and faster
they need to streamline the system while maintaining safety

[SUPERSTAR]

I agree with you 100% on this. ^^

Gays should be able to marry and adopt kids. I am willing to bet a steering wheel that they do a better job than some strait couples.

[drift freaq]

This is an issue with me as well
or at least it will be in the near future as "Gays" are becoming more accepted and are everywhere media wise
How do I expalain without getting into the reason why gays are really different
I mean the only reason why gays are different is because they have sex with the same sex
thats the biggest issue\only issue that americans and others have with them
Most straight americans don't even want to talk about their sex life let alone have someone else's thrust upon them
For example:
If a dude says he's gay he is saying "I make out with dudes, suck dick, and take it in the butt"
I really don't want to know that, and I don't want my kids to know that
and kids are quick, they'll start noticing that shit before they are 8yrs old
"hey daddy, why are those 2 men holding hands and kissing?"
"uh because they love each other......?"
"oh so I can hold hands with timmy and kiss him?"
"Fuck no!"
shit you shouldn't have to explain sex to your kid until they are at least 11-12

it honestly sounds by your statement above you have some unresolved feelings about the whole Gay issue and or are reacting in a paranoid fashion.

I mean yes Gay men talking about sexual stuff in public and open mouth kissing is offensive to some. Though I can tell you most kids that are straight are going to even think about kissing a guy.

This is where you fail to understand the sexual dynamic. I first kissed a girl at the age of like 4 or 5 much to my sisters shock and my parents scolding. LOL
Fact is I have never been even interested in kissing a guy. LOL
Even If I do see it. Kids are no different. Most kids until the age of 11-12 find the whole interrelationship thing like love and kissing just plain icky.

Truth be told I do feel Gays are born that way. I also feel bisexual people are as well. Its not about a comfort level in my opinion. Some people are just wired differently. In a sense a guy could find a mans body attractive but not have any interest in a love relationship with a man. At the same time the same man could be completely attracted to Women and totally interested in loving relationships with them. I have met women that find womens bodies extremely attractive bu are not the least bit interested in having a love relationship with them. That is a form of bisexuality and I have seen it first hand. I.E. girlfriends. LOL

Let me state two things here that some Gays sometimes get real wrong.

One is a person coming out. A person can come to terms with their sexuality and not even come out and publicly state it. It really is their business and their business only.
I have a friend who I could swear was gay by the things he does and says but he will not say or tell anyone he is. Is he gay? Who knows? Its really his business, not ours.


The other thing Gays get wrong a lot of the time is the whole attitude that they have to be out and in peoples faces to promote their rights.

Sometimes getting in peoples faces, openly flaunting your sexual feelings and what not, getting extremely radical about promoting your agenda backfires. It scares the people that might accept it if it was not so aggressively pushed.

Also the whole business of the Gay community outing famous people, who are gay or anyone for that matter, for the sake of promoting the cause, is a violation of that persons personal rights. Its that's person decision not the gay community.

I think this backfires on Gays.

[dudermagee]

it honestly sounds by your statement above you have some unresolved feelings about the whole Gay issue and or are reacting in a paranoid fashion.

I mean yes Gay men talking about sexual stuff in public and open mouth kissing is offensive to some. Though I can tell you most kids that are straight are going to even think about kissing a guy.

This is where you fail to understand the sexual dynamic. I first kissed a girl at the age of like 4 or 5 much to my sisters shock and my parents scolding. LOL
Fact is I have never been even interested in kissing a guy. LOL
Even If I do see it. Kids are no different. Most kids until the age of 11-12 find the whole interrelationship thing like love and kissing just plain icky.

Truth be told I do feel Gays are born that way. I also feel bisexual people are as well. Its not about a comfort level in my opinion. Some people are just wired differently. In a sense a guy could find a mans body attractive but not have any interest in a love relationship with a man. At the same time the same man could be completely attracted to Women and totally interested in loving relationships with them. I have met women that find womens bodies extremely attractive bu are not the least bit interested in having a love relationship with them. That is a form of bisexuality and I have seen it first hand. I.E. girlfriends. LOL

Let me state two things here that some Gays sometimes get real wrong.

One is a person coming out. A person can come to terms with their sexuality and not even come out and publicly state it. It really is their business and their business only.
I have a friend who I could swear was gay by the things he does and says but he will not say or tell anyone he is. Is he gay? Who knows? Its really his business, not ours.


The other thing Gays get wrong a lot of the time is the whole attitude that they have to be out and in peoples faces to promote their rights.

Sometimes getting in peoples faces, openly flaunting your sexual feelings and what not, getting extremely radical about promoting your agenda backfires. It scares the people that might accept it if it was not so aggressively pushed.

Also the whole business of the Gay community outing famous people, who are gay or anyone for that matter, for the sake of promoting the cause, is a violation of that persons personal rights. Its that's person decision not the gay community.

I think this backfires on Gays.


Ya I admit it I'm a homophobe
It just wierds me out
but I'm that way with alot of things I don't understand, Just the way I am i guess
But the good thing is that I see that and try to be more understanding

I don't have an issue with gays as long as they're not
making out in front of me (but I don't like it when straight couples do that either)
or are flamboyant

personally I think it is wrong to be gay
immorally, religiously, even scientifically
but also I respect your free choice to do what you want in life
but also I expect the same respect of not pushing your beliefs on me

[dudermagee]

I agree with you 100% on this. ^^

Gays should be able to marry and adopt kids. I am willing to bet a steering wheel that they do a better job than some strait couples.


studies have shown that they (adopted kids) do just as well and in some cases better with same sex parents, I don't really approve, but I wouldn't vote for or against if a measure was brought up, as I don't feel strongly against it either.

They also said that kids raised by same sex parents don't "turn gay", they said that the chance of them being gay or not is unaffected, which leads to believe that it may be a thing your born with not something that is chosen

I dunno...I still think that they shouldn't be able to get married in the traditional sense
someone came up with a good idea
the government should just get rid of marriage and make it a civil union for EVERYONE, then you get all of the government stuff you get with marriage
then after that if you want to get married you go to the church of your choice (which has no legal bearing, effectively further seperating church and state)
as a christian I would be okay with that

[VROOOM]

my cousin is gay, i used to live next door to a gay couple(women) who adopted 2 kids and i used to work in a store that had quite a few gays that worked there.

ive seen the good and the bad of both sides. my old neighbors were awesome people and were great mothers to thier adopted kids. i dont think a straight couple would do any better job rasing kids than these two women have. the kids dont act gay or anything like that. i dont see a thing wrong with this. thses kids now have parents that love and provide for them in a way that a foster home couldnt. every kid needs that.


the place i worked at that had a large lesbian population was a bit different. the girls would try and "convert" every female that got hired at the store. they were extremely aggresive and it was kind of intimidating for some of the new hires. it kinda bothered me, but in a way its just the same as every guy hitting on the new girl.

i dont care if gays get married or not. i dont think its anyones decision but thiers. i dont see how someone can try and stop someone form doing something that isnt going to harm them in one way. you may not want to see 2 guys kissing, but there are alot of things i see everyday that i dont really want to see either. im not out trying to outlaw it. its not my place to do that.

[Future240]

studies have shown that they (adopted kids) do just as well and in some cases better with same sex parents, I don't really approve, but I wouldn't vote for or against if a measure was brought up, as I don't feel strongly against it either.

I am curious to know why don't you approve considering the bolded?

the government should just get rid of marriage and make it a civil union for EVERYONE, then you get all of the government stuff you get with marriage
then after that if you want to get married you go to the church of your choice (which has no legal bearing, effectively further seperating church and state)
as a christian I would be okay with that

As a Christian, I think if you want to get church married you should be able and get your benefits. I also believe that if you just want to be married, you should be able to have a wedding similar to the traditional church style weddings cept you use a judge to marry you, that way for those who are agnostic, atheist, gay (since the church is disapproving of them) they can all still be married and get benefits.

[Walperstyle]

nobody 'got' what I was saying, you read the first line of print then commented. Cheers for getting angry for no reason. lol.

let me know when you solve something on the internet ;)

[Matej]

We should go back to the olden ways of the hedonists. When men could be gay if they wanted to. But they would still get married to women, to make heirs and continue the lineage, and to have someone help out with the household. None of this emotional love business.
And women had no rights.

[drift freaq]

nobody 'got' what I was saying, you read the first line of print then commented. Cheers for getting angry for no reason. lol.

let me know when you solve something on the internet ;)

Ok, since you want someone to directly address your previous comments? I will.

First off, there is no doubt that people should not have children if they do not have the ability or desire to raise them.

Unfortunately when it comes to having sex, some people tend to not think about the consequences till after the fact.

So according to your logic these people should be killed. If they have kids and cannot raise them.

Wow genocide, that's a real brilliant idea to correct the problem of people having children and putting them up for adoption.

Lets just kill people for the sake of them being idiots. Eugenics FTW! NOT!

Now you use the above arguments as a way to solve the issue of if Gays should have the right to be married.

Your statement is does nothing towards that issue in fact it obfuscates it.

The issue is about marriage, people use the child raising issue to defer the main issue.

Therefore, your statement does not to solve the issue and is quite honestly patently ignorant of human righst and common sense.

[theicecreamdan]

My friend asked me this the other day at work.

DO YOU THINK PPL ARE BORN GAY OR IT IS A LIFE DECISION TO BECOME GAY?



Here's a question in response to that. Why does it matter? Whether people choose to be gay or are "born" gay doesn't change whether they deserve human rights.

"I mean the only reason why gays are different is because they have sex with the same sex"

That's the ONLY difference? Are gay virgins not actually gay? Human sexuality can never be made as black and white as this issue. We don't even completely understand gender and sex.

[BustedS13]

My friend asked me this the other day at work.

DO YOU THINK PPL ARE BORN GAY OR IT IS A LIFE DECISION TO BECOME GAY?

Tell us what you think. I say that ppl are not born gay but BECOME gay from life experiences or from how they were raised.


could go either way.
rule of thumb... if you meet some dude and you don't find out he's gay until you've known him for a while, he was probably born gay. if you see two dudes making out in a straight bar, it was probably a life decision.

gays should be able to marry, join the military after it comes out, live safely in Texas, etc etc etc.
anybody who disagrees is either a bigot or is letting their denomination of choice do their thinking for them. and nobody wants to think that maybe their religion is wrong about something, so it's hard to move on the subject.
i wish all religions could deus ex machina primitive laws and bullshit away the way Mormons do.
"uh, had a vision lol, polygamy isn't cool and native americans aren't red because satan marked them. write it down"

[Matej]

Going to write to a representative to see if he could put forth a motion to ban religion.

[Vision Garage]

it doesnt bother me if someone is gay as long as they keep it to themselves. Im not all for the hey lets go march in a parade and scream to the world that we are gay tho. Yes you can be proud about your sexuality but you shouldnt try to impose it on others. If a guy likes to take it in the butt so be it. just dont come telling me about it.

I honestly think that people are not born gay but that they either decide to be gay or something in their childhood pushed them into becoming gay. Society does shape how people become and it plays a large factor into whether a kid will choose a guy over a girl.

[!Zar!]

it doesnt bother me if someone is gay as long as they keep it to themselves. Im not all for the hey lets go march in a parade and scream to the world that we are gay tho. Yes you can be proud about your sexuality but you shouldnt try to impose it on others. If a guy likes to take it in the butt so be it. just dont come telling me about it.

I honestly think that people are not born gay but that they either decide to be gay or something in their childhood pushed them into becoming gay. Society does shape how people become and it plays a large factor into whether a kid will choose a guy over a girl.

If and when gay marriage is passed then you wouldn't hear as much about it. So they will keep marching forth until something happens. Why is it that the only time people talk about gay people, it's dudes giving it to another dude 8/10. Funny how most guys have no problem with lesbians.

There are many people including a few instances in this thread stating that they just happen to like the same sex. This isn't about a girl sucking some dick in an alley way because her dad was away from home drunk. This is something that many people feel inside. As I stated earlier there are a few instances out there that someone of the opposite sex did something to turn off a few people and drive them to looking for love in the same gender. But that's not anywhere close to the majority.

[BustedS13]

Funny how most guys have no problem with lesbians.



YES. that's one hypocrisy that never fails to piss me off.

also yeah, all the gay pride stuff will wear off once they get something. probably not so much in SFO.

[Vision Garage]

Zar I know some dudes say that they just feel a stronger attraction to guys over girls. but I doubt they will come on a forum and say that they were touched wrongly when they were a kid. So its kinda hard to say that they were just born gay. No one will openly admit that there are other factors that could have made them the way they are. It would be easier to say I think I was born gay on a forum than to say I was touched as a kid or I grew up in a house with no father figure. Get what im saying?

[BustedS13]

Zar I know some dudes say that they just feel a stronger attraction to guys over girls. but I doubt they will come on a forum and say that they were touched wrongly when they were a kid. So its kinda hard to say that they were just born gay. No one will openly admit that there are other factors that could have made them the way they are. It would be easier to say I think I was born gay on a forum than to say I was touched as a kid or I grew up in a house with no father figure. Get what im saying?

and certainly that may be the case for SOME gay people, but certainly not ALL gay people.

[!Zar!]

Zar I know some dudes say that they just feel a stronger attraction to guys over girls. but I doubt they will come on a forum and say that they were touched wrongly when they were a kid. So its kinda hard to say that they were just born gay. No one will openly admit that there are other factors that could have made them the way they are. It would be easier to say I think I was born gay on a forum than to say I was touched as a kid or I grew up in a house with no father figure. Get what im saying?

I already said earlier that there are some cases where people were driven to being turned off by the opposite sex. A majority of those people were driven away due to bad dating experiences. To segment this even further, this instance happens more so with girls that it does guys.

Not to mention they way you say it sounds as if male children were touched at an early age and were afraid of women? There are way too many homosexual men in the world for that to even hold remotely possible.

Personally I had a thing for women since an early age. Around the age of 4~ I had a thing for women with big breasts; told to me by my parents. At the age of five I was trying to kiss girls in school. Never once did I think about kissing guys; and remember, most kids around this age think girls have cooties. Does that mean they are gay? No.

Just two weeks ago I had a fairly long and personal conversation with a man who had me editing his autobiography. In his autobiography was him talking about how he felt towards girls/boys growing up and eventually coming out. I had no idea that he was gay until I edited his paper.

Science hasn't proven if one is truthfully born gay, but it's hard to believe otherwise. The argument that people force one to be a certain way is hard to understand.

I think people are born gay.
Though disliking gays is something that one is raised to feel.

As for the Castro in SF. Honestly, it isn't as gay as people make it sounds. Don't get me wrong, there is some pretty gay shit out there, but nothing like the cock parties that the media seems to make it sound.

Now during halloween/gay pride/ lovefeast. That's a different story.

[Vision Garage]

i see what you are saying zar. maybe people are born gay as in they have an imbalance of chemicals in the brain. I really have no idea. God really did give us freedom of choice and theres nothign wrong with that. Maybe people see being gay as a new trend. beats me! Like i said, as long as they keep it to themselves, let them be.

yes if the church refuses to marry a couple, they should have the right to do so as it goes against their beliefs. i do not think they should be penalized in anyway for saying no to marriages of same sex couples even if it is passed. Rather as stated above, have a judge take place of the priest.

[BustedS13]

i see what you are saying zar. maybe people are born gay as in they have an imbalance of chemicals in the brain. I really have no idea. God really did give us freedom of choice and theres nothign wrong with that. Maybe people see being gay as a new trend. beats me! Like i said, as long as they keep it to themselves, let them be.

yes if the church refuses to marry a couple, they should have the right to do so as it goes against their beliefs. i do not think they should be penalized in anyway for saying no to marriages of same sex couples even if it is passed. Rather as stated above, have a judge take place of the priest.

so either they choose to be gay and will burn in hell, right
or they have a chemical imbalance in their brain and aren't part of the "master race", right

dude not cool

[Vision Garage]

Haha busted im not saying they will be burned in hell. Im just saying that I really dont know if people are born or choose it. I believe that its more of a life decision or it has to do something with how related to how they were raised and their environment growing up. If a priest says that be believes marraige should only be between and man and woman, then that is his belief. He should not be forced to marry a couple that goes against his own beliefs. Im sure there are other priest who wouldnt mind but to actually say hey im going to fine you for not marrying this gay couple is complete BS.

Its kinda like making a doctor perform an abortion when they themselves are against it. You can always go to another priest who doesnt mind gay marraiges. So not saying they cant get married, but to respect the beliefs of others as well.

[drift freaq]

i see what you are saying zar. maybe people are born gay as in they have an imbalance of chemicals in the brain. I really have no idea. God really did give us freedom of choice and theres nothign wrong with that. Maybe people see being gay as a new trend. beats me! Like i said, as long as they keep it to themselves, let them be.

yes if the church refuses to marry a couple, they should have the right to do so as it goes against their beliefs. i do not think they should be penalized in anyway for saying no to marriages of same sex couples even if it is passed. Rather as stated above, have a judge take place of the priest.

LOL so now you have equated people who feel they were born gay as possibly having a chemical imbalance. LOL wow you are clueless. Do you realize people with chemical imbalances are mentally sick? As in Hallucinations, and or bi polar or manic depressive.
You really should go study Human Physiology and the Brain.

Your ignorance based on your religious beliefs is phenomenal. People seeing gay as a new trend. LOL
People deciding to be ostracized? LOL People deciding to be discriminated against? You really have no clue do you?
Nor do you really want to entertain one.

You have pretty much branded them wrong and that is the end of it.
I will say this yet again in this thread and this based on your own religious beliefs, do not judge others let you be judged yourself.

It blows my mind when people like you make the statements you make. Usually two different things happen with men who are touched by other men when they are young. They turn into alienated to society personalities more likely to commit violent crime or they become introverted reluctant types. Not gay.

It just cracks me up when people think a gay person male or female just makes a decision to change teams(like its that simple). Anyone that winds up going the other direction? Pretty much does so based on genuine feelings they have always had regardless.

Society puts women in the place that it feels they are supposed to be as it does with men.
These people quite often try to be what society wants them to be based on their upbringing.

Given all of that, to the average person it looks like they made a decision to become gay or lesbian. That is very short sighted. They made a decision to come to terms with their sexuality and accept it, so they could not be so conflicted and be happier about themselves.

Ever heard the term "you cannot love someone until you love yourself"? Well its pretty much true and quite often these people have to accept who they are, not what society tells them they must be, to actually start feeling ok with themselves and loving themselves.

Trust me ,if you do not feel good about yourself, you will never really have a loving a relationship with your opposite. Or even have an opposite to love.
People are not attracted to people who do not love themselves. Be it straight or gay.

Oh and more for the road "in order to receive one must be able to give"".

[Vision Garage]

man you guys sure are mad at people for giving their opinions. I dont really care of people are gay or not. How they become gay or if they are born gay is just an opinion. Stop getting all butt hurt from people expressing THEIR OWN OPINION. I already said if they want to get married then go do it but dont force a priest who is against it to do it.

All i did was post a question to see what people thought. Didnt know I would be crucified on the forums just for giving my opinion.

Man you girls sure are sensitive! ;) Carry on!

[drift freaq]

man you guys sure are mad at people for giving their opinions. I dont really care of people are gay or not. How they become gay or if they are born gay is just an opinion. Stop getting all butt hurt from people expressing THEIR OWN OPINION. I already said if they want to get married then go do it but dont force a priest who is against it to do it.

All i did was post a question to see what people thought. Didnt know I would be crucified on the forums just for giving my opinion.

Man you girls sure are sensitive! ;) Carry on!

Mad? Naw, not at all, dislike for ignorance and insensitivity? Yes. You like others on this forum have to stop thinking people are butt hurt when the express points that call in to question yours.

You fail at debate 101. Oh and no one is forcing a priest to marry them . Once again you show your ignorance. The proposal was over civil marriage and the law had already been passed allowing it.

The religious right chose to put up a referendum to repeal the law. That is exactly what the whole prop was about.

Like I have said and Zar has pointed out as well the whole prop and vote over it was a farce and full of shit.

Now if your going to come in here and talk politics you are going to have expect debate and people who disagree with you.
You like C4USMC can't seem to take a debate without feeling like we take it personally. Nothing personal just opinions, facts and differences. LOL

Maybe you should be the one not feeling butt hurt :rofl:

[FaLKoN240]

I forgot to add that some gays are religious, and that's why they want to be married.

Don't ask me why, or how it makes sense...

[Future240]

I forgot to add that some gays are religious, and that's why they want to be married.

Don't ask me why, or how it makes sense...


Probably how religous people can be religious yet still fornicate etc. because in some religions all sins are the same so that one they probably feel ok with.

I don't know that has mystified me too.

Here is something I want to know, What do studz(butch gay girls) wear to the beach or pool???

[!Zar!]

An over shirt.

[BustedS13]

I forgot to add that some gays are religious, and that's why they want to be married.

Don't ask me why, or how it makes sense...

Some denominations allow female pastors. Some allow gays. Some don't allow their religious leaders to marry. Some advise birth control, some condemn it. Westboro Baptist likes to ruin soldiers' funerals.
Point is, there's more than one religion. That's how it makes sense.

[SexPanda]

Some denominations allow female pastors. Some allow gays. Some don't allow their religious leaders to marry. Some advise birth control, some condemn it. Westboro Baptist likes to ruin soldiers' funerals.
Point is, there's more than one religion. That's how it makes sense.

I like that. You just made a whole lotta sense. Religion is on of those things created by man that can be used for good or bad. I personally think that religion is a huge tree lying in the road of progress... But don't get me wrong, I believe in God. I just think that human progress sometimes necessitates forgetting about what your God does or doesn't like, and instead focusing on what needs to be done.

[Future240]

I like that. You just made a whole lotta sense. Religion is on of those things created by man that can be used for good or bad. I personally think that religion is a huge tree lying in the road of progress... But don't get me wrong, I believe in God. I just think that human progress sometimes necessitates forgetting about what your God does or doesn't like, and instead focusing on what needs to be done.

Religion itself is not the problem. It is man's interpretation of said religion. Because of our different perspectives what I see in a book that makes me feel like I should be accepting to people and not judge them someone else sees it as its okay to stand at a street corner and yell at people with megaphones.

If religion wasnt there it would just be replaced by something else. People who are atheist or agnostic still can be just as hateful towards gays as religious people.

[theicecreamdan]

What if science found out that "gayness" is cureable, would you take the pill?

What about if science found out that being straight is abnormal, and it could be cured, would you take the pill?

Before you condemn something as wrong, scientifically, morally or religiously, I really think you need to define what "right" is and figure out what the actual difference is.

What makes X "wrong"?
-Evidence doesn't support X
-X hurts people (actually hurts, I don't give a shit if you are offended)
How else can you logically define what "wrong" means?

[BustedS13]

What if science found out that "gayness" is cureable, would you take the pill?

What about if science found out that being straight is abnormal, and it could be cured, would you take the pill?

Before you condemn something as wrong, scientifically, morally or religiously, I really think you need to define what "right" is and figure out what the actual difference is.

What makes X "wrong"?
-Evidence doesn't support X
-X hurts people (actually hurts, I don't give a shit if you are offended)
How else can you logically define what "wrong" means?

uh, hello, gays are bad because:
-gays are yucky (except lady gays, SOOO HAWT)
-bible SAYS gays are yucky, uh sodom and gomorrah, HELLOOOO (does not apply to lady gays)
-i think if a chick fucks a donkey you have to cut off her hand or something

[Matej]

What if science found out that "gayness" is cureable, would you take the pill?

What about if science found out that being straight is abnormal, and it could be cured, would you take the pill?
What if someone slipped it in your drink?

[afwfjustin]

That's my point exactly. The state should issue 'civil unions' with all the legal ramifications that 'marriage' carries. Leave marriage to the 'church' or whatever belief organization you hold. If gay people belong to a church that allows such a thing, great, allow them to be married through that avenue. Same for straight people.

I've thought this way for a long time. If marriage is a religious thing, then I don't want it.

For reference, I'm a gay loving, straight atheist who is a conservative libertarian..

[afwfjustin]

I honestly think that people are not born gay but that they either decide to be gay or something in their childhood pushed them into becoming gay. Society does shape how people become and it plays a large factor into whether a kid will choose a guy over a girl.

No offense but that's a pretty ignorant statement. My younger brother had the same upbringing that I did. When I was 2-3 I played with He-Man toys. When he was that age he played house, was obsessed with The Wizard of Oz, and wore my mom's high heels.

You are BORN gay, just like some people are born to have a preference for blondes or brunettes, like asses or tits, have a foot fetish (myself), or are lactose intolerant. It's in your genes dawg.

[SlideWell]

i think if ur gonna be gay and want to marry eachother, then you should be able to. i believe in those right and many others, but when i was in Seattle, the Gay Pride parade they have there every year, hmm, unknowingly walked thru that after a night of partying to a breakfast place, there were naked men on bikes, some naked women. i think thats neat they can do that, but is that really necessary? im not big on "pride," but am huge on rights. i think pride is a big downer to a person if exerted too much, if that makes sense.
on a side note, gay men can have sex in a safe manner if they choose.
what about the women? am i clueless or is syran wrap the only option? gross to think about if ur messin around with a bi-girl, and added that they are more suseptable to std's. these things concern me with "alternative lifestyles."
Florida has a lot of gay people, funny tho that theres so many homophobes here. If ur gonna be gay, be gay and get married if ur serious about commitment, have a gay wedding and ill try not to think of the honeymoon, haha. i personally, am not turned on by lesbians, nor gay men for that matter. all the various religions despising gays can suck my nuts. there is a thing such as evolution, sciences, GOD, who ever yours is, shouldnt strike down on you for any mutations within your genes or DNA or anything. thats enough thought on all that.

[afwfjustin]

what about the women? am i clueless or is syran wrap the only option?

The "eat pussy" contraceptive is called a dental dam.

http://islandsexualhealth.org/images/65.jpg

Not very erotic huh? :D

[Future240]

The "eat pussy" contraceptive is called a dental dam.

http://islandsexualhealth.org/images/65.jpg

Not very erotic huh? :D

If I have to use that shit I don't need to be eatin it.

[Walperstyle]

No offense but that's a pretty ignorant statement. My younger brother had the same upbringing that I did. When I was 2-3 I played with He-Man toys. When he was that age he played house, was obsessed with The Wizard of Oz, and wore my mom's high heels.

You are BORN gay, just like some people are born to have a preference for blondes or brunettes, like asses or tits, have a foot fetish (myself), or are lactose intolerant. It's in your genes dawg.


so your brothers gay, and you have a foot fetish. Tell us more of your parents involvement in your life....

[Rayne]

If a couple (hetero or homo sexual), with full and complete knowledge and understanding of all the legal implications, wants to become party to a legally binding and dynamic contract with the state without duress. I am not going to say they can't.

[drift_limo]

I say let them get married fuck it.

If anybody on here knows some one that has gotten divorced knows that at the end they are happier single or sad. let them get married. they will want to vote no at the end.

[Walperstyle]

man you guys sure are mad at people for giving their opinions. I dont really care of people are gay or not. How they become gay or if they are born gay is just an opinion. Stop getting all butt hurt from people expressing THEIR OWN OPINION. I already said if they want to get married then go do it but dont force a priest who is against it to do it.

All i did was post a question to see what people thought. Didnt know I would be crucified on the forums just for giving my opinion.

Man you girls sure are sensitive! ;) Carry on!

Its OK dude, he's one of those many types that figures 'if I type more, it makes me right and others wrong'. Its kinda a 'self-honor' that many time wasting keyboard commandos do. If he's lucky, he'll go over to supercars.net and fit in really well with people that have nearly 100,000 posts of the same repetitive nonsense. My advice, don't talk back to him, and use the internet to learn new things instead of seeking out repetitive and rhetorical topics.

[racepar1]

Personally I could care less if gay people get married. As far as the slurs go though, you fuckers take that shit too seriously. There are just as many slurs to describe a fat guy as a gay guy and I don't hear anyone campaigning for "fat rights". I honestly feel the same way about racial slurs as well, for the most part. Some people just go too far, like anything else. I can't stand homophobes and racist motherfuckers though, that shit is stupid.

[drift freaq]

Its OK dude, he's one of those many types that figures 'if I type more, it makes me right and others wrong'. Its kinda a 'self-honor' that many time wasting keyboard commandos do. If he's lucky, he'll go over to supercars.net and fit in really well with people that have nearly 100,000 posts of the same repetitive nonsense. My advice, don't talk back to him, and use the internet to learn new things instead of seeking out repetitive and rhetorical topics.

you're a fucking idiot and you stick your foot in your mouth quite a bit. Why don't you just shut the fuck up. You are not contributing to the discussion and you don't contribute to the forum with anything of relevance.

Oh, I should add you have already proven in your insane p.m.s that you are certified bonkers and a moron. So take your ass back to the nut house and stop mucking up Zilvia.

[Walperstyle]

Make sure to let me know when you add up the hours you spend wasting time on the internet talking about rhetorical subjects that never solve anything; because I really want to see the look in your face when you realize you wasted years away of your life.

I did a quick look at what you talk about, its simply amazing how oblivious you seem to be at just how much effort you put into it.

Whats more interesting is you will most likely reply to me, yet again, because you need to get the last word in. It makes you feel better, go ahead.

[racepar1]

Make sure to let me know when you add up the hours you spend wasting time on the internet talking about rhetorical subjects that never solve anything; because I really want to see the look in your face when you realize you wasted years away of your life.

I did a quick look at what you talk about, its simply amazing how oblivious you seem to be at just how much effort you put into it.

Whats more interesting is you will most likely reply to me, yet again, because you need to get the last word in. It makes you feel better, go ahead.

Right, and you aren't involved in the conversation or interested in getting the last word in yourself now are you? You are doing the exact same thing that you are accusing Dave of doing, only you use less words. Don't try to act all fucking innocent and better then thou kid, we can all see right through your bullshit.

[slowpo]

back to topic..

Why i dont agree with homosexual civil unions, gay marriage,ect..
If homosexuals are allow to marriege/civil union, They will start adopting kids....I call them recruits
Everybody know that Environment can cause sexual orientation in many ways....think about
Thats why I think queers shouldn't be allowed to reaise kids..
Did you guys know that 92% percent of CHILD MOLESTERS ARE GAY!! Your not goin to see that in the liberal control media.

Heterosexuality is the norm, otherwise we would not be here..homosexuality is a choice just like drug addiction.
MY Bible says that everything is according to God's Plan. He doesn't create "flaws," but sinners make poor choices. Choosing to be a sodomite/homosexual is like choosing to be a killer/rapist or an arsonist. That's why God gave us Free Will, so that we could freely make the choice to worship Him properly or spend eternity being tortured in hell.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them
That is pretty straightforward don't you think? God commands us to put homosexuals to death. He doesn't want us going out robbing liquor stores and killing clerks (that's what thou shalt not kill is about), but he is perfectly fine having us kill homosexuals or people who commit adultery
As for thou shalt not kill, that is only a commandment not to murder out of our own agendas. God has no problem having us kill others as per His law.
Of course I'm not saying we should go and kill a homosexual, I'm not goin to do that of course.. But Our lord God will, thats why he have the AIDS..

This is just my humble opinion

[drift freaq]

back to topic..

Why i dont agree with homosexual civil unions, gay marriage,ect..
If homosexuals are allow to marriege/civil union, They will start adopting kids....I call them recruits
Everybody know that Environment can cause sexual orientation in many ways....think about
Thats why I think queers shouldn't be allowed to reaise kids..
Did you guys know that 92% percent of CHILD MOLESTERS ARE GAY!! Your not goin to see that in the liberal control media.

Heterosexuality is the norm, otherwise we would not be here..homosexuality is a choice just like drug addiction.
MY Bible says that everything is according to God's Plan. He doesn't create "flaws," but sinners make poor choices. Choosing to be a sodomite/homosexual is like choosing to be a killer/rapist or an arsonist. That's why God gave us Free Will, so that we could freely make the choice to worship Him properly or spend eternity being tortured in hell.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them
That is pretty straightforward don't you think? God commands us to put homosexuals to death. He doesn't want us going out robbing liquor stores and killing clerks (that's what thou shalt not kill is about), but he is perfectly fine having us kill homosexuals or people who commit adultery
As for thou shalt not kill, that is only a commandment not to murder out of our own agendas. God has no problem having us kill others as per His law.
Of course I'm not saying we should go and kill a homosexual, I'm not goin to do that of course.. But Our lord God will, thats why he have the AIDS..

This is just my humble opinion


You are so ignorant of your own God you do not even realize. People do not choose to be gay, in fact we have gone over that. So your saying they are born making the choice to sin. You mention free will do you realize God gave nature free will? Do you think everything that was made in nature is perfect? Because if you believe your God made everything perfect like you state above than the abnormal things in nature would not exist.

Oh and your interpretation of the Bible is way to literal. I suggest you read God according to God to get a better understanding of God and the Bible.

[slowpo]

You are so ignorant of your own God you do not even realize. People do not choose to be gay, in fact we have gone over that. So your saying they are born making the choice to sin. You mention free will do you realize God gave nature free will? Do you think everything that was made in nature is perfect? Because if you believe your God made everything perfect like you state above than the abnormal things in nature would not exist.

Oh and your interpretation of the Bible is way to literal. I suggest you read God according to God to get a better understanding of God and the Bible.
Ok lady I'm tired of hearing The gay people saying the same thing 'oh gay is not a choice I was born like this bla bla bla'
That is complete bull crap! God created man after His own image and God is in no way a homasexual! To say some men are born as homos is calling God a homo which we will not accept in any way.

[!Zar!]

back to topic..

Why i dont agree with homosexual civil unions, gay marriage,ect..
If homosexuals are allow to marriege/civil union, They will start adopting kids....I call them recruits
Everybody know that Environment can cause sexual orientation in many ways....think about
Thats why I think queers shouldn't be allowed to reaise kids..
Did you guys know that 92% percent of CHILD MOLESTERS ARE GAY!! Your not goin to see that in the liberal control media.

Heterosexuality is the norm, otherwise we would not be here..homosexuality is a choice just like drug addiction.
MY Bible says that everything is according to God's Plan. He doesn't create "flaws," but sinners make poor choices. Choosing to be a sodomite/homosexual is like choosing to be a killer/rapist or an arsonist. That's why God gave us Free Will, so that we could freely make the choice to worship Him properly or spend eternity being tortured in hell.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them
That is pretty straightforward don't you think? God commands us to put homosexuals to death. He doesn't want us going out robbing liquor stores and killing clerks (that's what thou shalt not kill is about), but he is perfectly fine having us kill homosexuals or people who commit adultery
As for thou shalt not kill, that is only a commandment not to murder out of our own agendas. God has no problem having us kill others as per His law.
Of course I'm not saying we should go and kill a homosexual, I'm not goin to do that of course.. But Our lord God will, thats why he have the AIDS..

This is just my humble opinion

As I've stated before, I believe in God. But I will say, that MANKIND is the human race. Not just a male individual. As well, God did not tell US to KILL homosexuals. Lets just say hypothetically that if God did not want homosexuals to walk the same earth, they would be judged during the rapture and judgement day.

Since God gives one free will, what is stopping two people from having the free will to love each other of the same sex?

I mean really, your WHOLE post is telling people that it is ok to go out and kill people who love someone of the same race.

God is the one who shall be placing judgement. Not you.

[HalveBlue]

Ok lady I'm tired of hearing The gay people saying the same thing 'oh gay is not a choice I was born like this bla bla bla'
That is complete bull crap! God created man after His own image and God is in no way a homasexual! To say some men are born as homos is calling God a homo which we will not accept in any way.

Soooooo...if God created man in his own image...is God Asian, White, or Black?

What color are God's eyes? Hair?

back to topic..

Why i dont agree with homosexual civil unions, gay marriage,ect..
If homosexuals are allow to marriege/civil union, They will start adopting kids....I call them recruits
Everybody know that Environment can cause sexual orientation in many ways....think about
Thats why I think queers shouldn't be allowed to reaise kids..

WTF, dude? Recruits?

What, you think the gays are raising their own gay army to fight in the upcoming gay wars?

From personal experience, gay couples can provide as loving a home as any heterosexual couple.

And contrary to what you think I have yet to hear of any correlation between homosexual couples adopting children and those children "turning" gay as a result.

Did you guys know that 92% percent of CHILD MOLESTERS ARE GAY!! Your not goin to see that in the liberal control media.

OH NOES, NOT THE LIBERAL MEDIA!!!1! :ugh:

Also, I'd like some sources to back up your statistics there.

Heterosexuality is the norm, otherwise we would not be here..homosexuality is a choice just like drug addiction.

Seriously, dude. Pick up a book besides the Bible one of these days. Your ignorance is astounding.

MY Bible says that everything is according to God's Plan. He doesn't create "flaws," but sinners make poor choices. Choosing to be a sodomite/homosexual is like choosing to be a killer/rapist or an arsonist. That's why God gave us Free Will, so that we could freely make the choice to worship Him properly or spend eternity being tortured in hell.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them
That is pretty straightforward don't you think? God commands us to put homosexuals to death. He doesn't want us going out robbing liquor stores and killing clerks (that's what thou shalt not kill is about), but he is perfectly fine having us kill homosexuals or people who commit adultery
As for thou shalt not kill, that is only a commandment not to murder out of our own agendas. God has no problem having us kill others as per His law.

Ah, yes, the Bible. Book of books.

Funny thing, I remember somewhere in there Jesus talks about forgiveness (even though I don't consider homosexuality a sin; so the concept of forgiveness isn't really applicable).

Of course I'm not saying we should go and kill a homosexual, I'm not goin to do that of course.. But Our lord God will, thats why he have the AIDS..

This is just my humble opinion

So, you decided to write a huge paragraph about what God expects of us (you) and follow it up by stating that you refuse to obey Him?

And "the AIDS" afflicts more than just homosexuals.

But what the hell, maybe I've just been brainwashed by the liberal media into accepting/not caring, about behavior that doesn't affect me.

Or maybe I've been infected by the gay cooties... :ghey:

:rolleyes:

[racepar1]

LOL @ "gay cooties"!!! I mean seriously how is anyone going to turn you gay??? If you're gay, you're gay and that's it. Even those few that "turned gay" didn't really have a chioce. They were scarred by life experiences that are completely out of their hands. I in no way find being gay normal, but I certainly do not believe that these people are heathens and should automatically burn in hell for all eternity.

[ThatGuy]

Thats why I think queers shouldn't be allowed to reaise kids.

This comment right here, in your insulting context, is a derogatory insult, based solely in your closed minded opinion, and poorly written to boot.

You earned a month off for it.

If you can't make your point without acting like an ignoramus, then stay out of the conversation.

[murda-c]

Ok lady I'm tired of hearing The gay people saying the same thing 'oh gay is not a choice I was born like this bla bla bla'
That is complete bull crap! God created man after His own image and God is in no way a homasexual! To say some men are born as homos is calling God a homo which we will not accept in any way.

Some men are also born retarded....

I mean you're getting all your info from a book that has two different stories as to how the earth was created so it's not gonna make sense either way.

[racepar1]

back to topic..

Why i dont agree with homosexual civil unions, gay marriage,ect..
If homosexuals are allow to marriege/civil union, They will start adopting kids....I call them recruits
Everybody know that Environment can cause sexual orientation in many ways....think about
Thats why I think queers shouldn't be allowed to reaise kids..
Did you guys know that 92% percent of CHILD MOLESTERS ARE GAY!! Your not goin to see that in the liberal control media.

Heterosexuality is the norm, otherwise we would not be here..homosexuality is a choice just like drug addiction.
MY Bible says that everything is according to God's Plan. He doesn't create "flaws," but sinners make poor choices. Choosing to be a sodomite/homosexual is like choosing to be a killer/rapist or an arsonist. That's why God gave us Free Will, so that we could freely make the choice to worship Him properly or spend eternity being tortured in hell.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them
That is pretty straightforward don't you think? God commands us to put homosexuals to death. He doesn't want us going out robbing liquor stores and killing clerks (that's what thou shalt not kill is about), but he is perfectly fine having us kill homosexuals or people who commit adultery
As for thou shalt not kill, that is only a commandment not to murder out of our own agendas. God has no problem having us kill others as per His law.
Of course I'm not saying we should go and kill a homosexual, I'm not goin to do that of course.. But Our lord God will, thats why he have the AIDS..

This is just my humble opinion

Pennywise "My God"

People on the street they wannna find a god they'll never know,
organized religion pulls the blinds then they pull the wool,
they open up your head, they're fuckin' with your mind,
now you can't see because you're blind
You try to make amends but your heads still spinnin' round,
the church of Jesus Christ said it's time, don't fuck around,
you wanna go to heaven, you see it isn't free, give your money up to me
My god is not the one that you wanna see, your god is a mirage,
a conspiracy, you pray for forgiveness cause your sinnin',
scared to death so your money you'll be givin', yeah
(Ohoh) <i>[x2]

Holier than thou with your one way morality,
I think your shallow faith isn't based in reality,
you don't like how were live, we're sinful and obscene,
why are you judgin' me?
You're richer than God but you're cryin' out for more,
you're livin' like a king while you steal from the poor,
wanna be forgiven, get on your knees and pray,
send in your cash and be saved

My god is not the one that you wanna see,
your god is a mirage, a conspiracy,
you pray for forgiveness cause your sinnin',
scared to death so your money you'll be givin',
yeah, better hope you've been chosen to be saved
(Ohoh) <i>[x2]
Cause your empathy only goes so far today
Pay no mind to those in pain if you just want the souls
who are willing to pay
Their way, your god's not for me

My god is not the one that you wanna see,
your god is a mirage, a conspiracy,
you pray for forgiveness cause your sinnin',
scared to death so your money you'll be givin',
yeah, my god is not the one that you wanna see,
your god is a mirage, a conspiracy,
you pray for forgiveness cause your sinnin',
scared to death so your money you'll be givin',
yeah, stop


I couldn't have said it better myself...

[drift freaq]

Ok lady I'm tired of hearing The gay people saying the same thing 'oh gay is not a choice I was born like this bla bla bla'
That is complete bull crap! God created man after His own image and God is in no way a homasexual! To say some men are born as homos is calling God a homo which we will not accept in any way.

Ah excuse me does it make you feel better by calling a man a lady. I am not gay. Of course your ignorance can't even bother to notice the hottie in my avatar, that happens to be my girlfriend.

Oh wait your ignorance got you pinked. I am not surprised about that.

[slothonaleash]

back to topic..

Why i dont agree with homosexual civil unions, gay marriage,ect..
If homosexuals are allow to marriege/civil union, They will start adopting kids....I call them recruits
Everybody know that Environment can cause sexual orientation in many ways....think about
Thats why I think queers shouldn't be allowed to reaise kids..
Did you guys know that 92% percent of CHILD MOLESTERS ARE GAY!! Your not goin to see that in the liberal control media.

Heterosexuality is the norm, otherwise we would not be here..homosexuality is a choice just like drug addiction.
MY Bible says that everything is according to God's Plan. He doesn't create "flaws," but sinners make poor choices. Choosing to be a sodomite/homosexual is like choosing to be a killer/rapist or an arsonist. That's why God gave us Free Will, so that we could freely make the choice to worship Him properly or spend eternity being tortured in hell.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them
That is pretty straightforward don't you think? God commands us to put homosexuals to death. He doesn't want us going out robbing liquor stores and killing clerks (that's what thou shalt not kill is about), but he is perfectly fine having us kill homosexuals or people who commit adultery
As for thou shalt not kill, that is only a commandment not to murder out of our own agendas. God has no problem having us kill others as per His law.
Of course I'm not saying we should go and kill a homosexual, I'm not goin to do that of course.. But Our lord God will, thats why he have the AIDS..

This is just my humble opinion

Ahhh Leviticus

The same text which brought us writings such as

11:12-And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you.

25:44-46 However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.

Along with making sins out of planting two different kinds of seeds in your field, wearing cloth woven from two different materials, and clipping the edges off of your beard.

And as for the whole gay pride thing, I am not "proud" of my sexuality.

Just as I should not be proud to be caucasian, male, have brown hair, etc. I'm not proud of being homosexual because I feel as if I had zero decision; it's just the way I am.

I don't agree with all of the people at the gay pride parades flaunting their sexuality, and the public should not view the LGBT population as being so. For every flamboyant gay person at the pride parade, there are fifty others sitting quietly in their homes focusing on more important things than throwing their sexuality in the faces of others.

[FaLKoN240]

back to topic..

Why i dont agree with homosexual civil unions, gay marriage,ect..
If homosexuals are allow to marriege/civil union, They will start adopting kids....I call them recruits
Everybody know that Environment can cause sexual orientation in many ways....think about

The only reason you assume that gay people would try to make their children gay is because people like you view being gay as some sort of "end of the world disease" so they try to MAKE their children not gay.

A gay person trying to make their child gay shouldn't have children, I agree with that, but most people that adopt kids want to make sure that the kid has a BETTER life. Not so they can "recruit".

And what would be the point of recruiting kids to make them gay? What would they have to gain from that? Do you think before you... think? Seriously.

Heterosexuality is the norm, otherwise we would not be here..homosexuality is a choice just like drug addiction.
MY Bible says that everything is according to God's Plan. He doesn't create "flaws," but sinners make poor choices. Choosing to be a sodomite/homosexual is like choosing to be a killer/rapist or an arsonist. That's why God gave us Free Will, so that we could freely make the choice to worship Him properly or spend eternity being tortured in hell.


That slope you're on is greased VERY well, since you're comparing someone's sexual preference to everything that is wrong in society.

Being attracted to someone of the same sex isn't quite the same as choosing to burn up someone's personal property, kill someone, or force someone into sex without their consent.


This is just my humble opinion

There is nothing HUMBLE about your opinion in anyway.

You're completely self absorbed and self righteous in your ideals.

Not to mention offensive in all of your comparisons.

Ok lady I'm tired of hearing The gay people saying the same thing 'oh gay is not a choice I was born like this bla bla bla'
That is complete bull crap! God created man after His own image and God is in no way a homasexual! To say some men are born as homos is calling God a homo which we will not accept in any way.

Seriously, god created us in his IMAGE. Not his ideas, thoughts, or actions.

If we were completely the same as god we would be in act of a sin no?

No man can or will ever be as powerful as god.

God created us in his image, but to act on our own.

Apparently that's a gift and a curse in it's own because people like you abuse religion and it's teachings.

[fckillerbee]

using "god made man in his own image" is a bullshit way of saying that gay's are sinners.

what about God loves us sooo much that he gave his only son?

I'm religious...but I also believe that "gays" should be able to marry other gays. why? because god gave us that right.

If he loves us soooo fucking much, why allow us to go to hell. why allow us to shoot another man. He gave us that privilage.

you forget.....if god has the ability to give a "right" such as choice, then he also has the ability to take it away. We would never know the difference. So why allow us (which he loves so much to give his only son) the ability to condemn ourselves to hell?

people that literally live by the book without acknowleging this possibility in my opinion are far more ignorant!


my father is one of those people....because of my thinking...he has changed the way he acts....in the negative way. i.e...i told him smoking a cigarette is a sin. (think about that one)

[drift freaq]

using "god made man in his own image" is a bullshit way of saying that gay's are sinners.

what about God loves us sooo much that he gave his only son?

I'm religious...but I also believe that "gays" should be able to marry other gays. why? because god gave us that right.

If he loves us soooo fucking much, why allow us to go to hell. why allow us to shoot another man. He gave us that privilage.

you forget.....if god has the ability to give a "right" such as choice, then he also has the ability to take it away. We would never know the difference. So why allow us (which he loves so much to give his only son) the ability to condemn ourselves to hell?

people that literally live by the book without acknowleging this possibility in my opinion are far more ignorant!


my father is one of those people....because of my thinking...he has changed the way he acts....in the negative way. i.e...i told him smoking a cigarette is a sin. (think about that one)

People fail to realize the full implications of free will.

Oh and people fail to realize that God created many things that were imperfect. Homosexuality is something that is seen throughout the animal kingdom. Its not something that man just decided on. There are Genetics at play here.

On top of that drug addiction is not a choice. People get addicted to drugs and or alcohol because they are predisposed to it.

The American Medical Association has even admitted that. They have found Genetic differences in Alcoholics and Addicts.
Oh and please don't argue this with me because I have first hand experience with it.
I know all about addiction and alcoholism, more than most people could understand in their ignorance of it.

[fckillerbee]

I love the gay people raising children thing....haha...cause what...straight people raise straight kids? lmao!!!

[Csomme]

I believe that being Gay is a Sin, however, the Bible also says that God does not care whether you lie or kill, all sins are wrong, one is not worse than the other.

I am saying this to say: Being gay is a sin, but so is lying. So what? Being gay will in no way prevent you from being close to God, or getting to Heaven. I DO believe that being gay is a choice, but also, I wonder how little boys can like little boys. They seem to young to understand, and that would contradict my first statement. So I guess I'm not sure.

But as far as Gay people being married and adopting kids: If they truly do love eachother, then why shouldn't they get married? And almost everyone I know wants kids someday, so why should someone who's gay not be able to? It would be pure evil to prevent those to from happening in my opinion.

I grew up Southern Baptist, and believe me, I was not raised this way, but if I think about it, it's what makes sense.

The only thing about homosexuality that I DONT like however, is when someone is Flamboyant. I absolutely HATE this. And going around everywhere just talking about penises and taking it up the butt is very offensive, and retarded.

In my opinion, if being gay is just about the sex, that's stupid and ignorant of you. If being gay is about being attracted to the opposite sex in more ways than that, I can't stop you, and you can't help it. So go for it.

I have two friends who are gay. Both act very normal, a little girlish, but not bad. However, I hung out with my friend Drew one day, and he had a friend that was gay. Well, a group of us decided to go grab a bite to eat, and this kid plugged in his iPod, and all the songs were about blowjobs, and Sex between dudes, it was gross. Even if it was straight people music I would have been offended. Shit was retarded. So we get back to this dudes house, and he pulls out a dildo from under his pillow and smacks Drew in the face with it. All he talked about all day was him having sex with other dudes. It was gross.

I cannot stand the latter, and that is something that I cannot tolerate around me.

I hope that I didn't offend anyone, I just wanted to give my opinion, and I thought some of you would like to know that there are God-fearing people out there that aren't hypocrites and what not.

[!Zar!]

I was grown southern baptist as well and I nor my parents have animosity towards homosexual individuals.

As for how you say you can't understand how little boys like little boys, the answer is they do not.

All the kid knows is he rather play with the girls and might not show as much interest in things that guys his age are doing.

To a child that is somewhat confusing when he would rather pay something like house with some girls than play football or something with the boys. After a while it will turn into the individual questioning his confusion and thoughts. Then eventually or at least hopefully he will come to a conclusion and come to peace with ones self.

As for the guy who is whipped out his dildo, I have gay friends and even they don't do that. lol. Shit, not even girls I know do that.

[Csomme]

Ahh. Thanks for explaining that.

And for the dildo dude, yeah. I hated that. My gay friends would never pull that shit either, but I was giving an example.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

I'm sorry but I don't believe a WORD anybody said 2000 years ago. God is about as real as the tooth fairy or Santa Claus.
Seriously, what better way to run a business than religion? The ONLY way to completely disprove it is to die. That's a good business technique, don't you think?

And if god created everyone perfect then what about the mentally/physically challenged? What about hermaphrodites? Are they "the devils work"? And to be gay and to raise a child isn't to "recruit". That's the most ignorant thing I've ever heard. A PARENT SHOULD teach open mindedness and not ignorance to things they don't understand. Gay or not. Obviously SOME people in here was deprived of that in their upbringing.

[Csomme]

This is not a religion bashing contest, so please, do not bash. Especially about things that you obviously aren't even knowledgeable in. The Bible never teaches that God made people perfect. He made people in his image, and that can be interpreted multiple ways, however, after the fall of man every single human was born into sin. This created things such as natural disasters, pain in child birth, physically and mentally challenged beings, and hermaphrodites.

There could be a whole set of novels written on this one topic, but please, do not insult others beliefs.

[TommyBoy89]

Well I have a small input and didn't read most of this thread so apologies if it has been discussed or I am repeating items. But it is however what I think so...

I have zero problem with gays. I know some gay people and they are usually more energetic and usually have a strong sense of humor. The problem I saw some people here shared and others I know is the public expressions. We don't need to see it constantly, some do this and some don't. This is the same as when your in public you don't want to see a guy and girl making out hardcore. Like someone said before it seems as if the homosexuals are using the sexual preference for attention at times.

The gay pride parade in Toronto usually goes overboard with obscene displays and what not. Random question though if being gay is considered normal in culture why is there no straight pride parade to go with the gay pride parade? Serious question and would like some serious/educated responses.

[FaLKoN240]

I just LOL'd at the comment about gay people raising gay kids, and only straight people raise straight kids?

ZING.

[SexPanda]

Damn... I'd love to write a whole essay on this topic, but I just really don't feel like it. so here's where I stand.

There's nothing wrong with being gay. That have every right to be happy as everyone else. I have yet to see any scientific studies that prove that 2 same sex parents can't raise kids better than 2 "normal" parents. And honestly, with the way this country is going, with all the single parents and divorce, I think 2 moms or 2 dads has to be better than only 1 parent.

I you can give me a good number of studies that prove otherwise, then ok, you win. Otherwise, southern man, remember what your good book says.

[!Zar!]

Well I have a small input and didn't read most of this thread so apologies if it has been discussed or I am repeating items. But it is however what I think so...

I have zero problem with gays. I know some gay people and they are usually more energetic and usually have a strong sense of humor. The problem I saw some people here shared and others I know is the public expressions. We don't need to see it constantly, some do this and some don't. This is the same as when your in public you don't want to see a guy and girl making out hardcore. Like someone said before it seems as if the homosexuals are using the sexual preference for attention at times.

The gay pride parade in Toronto usually goes overboard with obscene displays and what not. Random question though if being gay is considered normal in culture why is there no straight pride parade to go with the gay pride parade? Serious question and would like some serious/educated responses.
Exactly, heterosexuals can go overboard just as much as homosexuals. Don't forget, things like Halloween and raves girls dress in next to nothing and that's about the same I figure.
Why aren't there straight parades? Because it is just that way. Same reason why there isn't a month or celebration for being white. Just is. Majority rule.

Damn... I'd love to write a whole essay on this topic, but I just really don't feel like it. so here's where I stand.

There's nothing wrong with being gay. That have every right to be happy as everyone else. I have yet to see any scientific studies that prove that 2 same sex parents can't raise kids better than 2 "normal" parents. And honestly, with the way this country is going, with all the single parents and divorce, I think 2 moms or 2 dads has to be better than only 1 parent.

I you can give me a good number of studies that prove otherwise, then ok, you win. Otherwise, southern man, remember what your good book says.

Too many variables to conduct a survey for something like who would make better parents.

I'm positive there are good parents, and I am positive there are bad parents for both types of parents. But I will say that the chances of bad parents are less for people who adopt than the chances of bad parents for people who have kids the conventional way.

[ronmcdon]

lot of existing celebrations (not just parades) have predominantly hetero sexual themes.
we just take it for granted cause there's so much of it.
it more or less becomes part of the everyday scenery.

[SlideWell]

you're a fucking idiot and you stick your foot in your mouth quite a bit. Why don't you just shut the fuck up. You are not contributing to the discussion and you don't contribute to the forum with anything of relevance.

Oh, I should add you have already proven in your insane p.m.s that you are certified bonkers and a moron. So take your ass back to the nut house and stop mucking up Zilvia.

Awesome. Hes from Canada, and an old school NWN member. so yes!
on a side and topical note, i like gay men, but gay women, NO, theyre fuckin asshole stabbing judgemental mother bitches.

[fckillerbee]

Well I have a small input and didn't read most of this thread so apologies if it has been discussed or I am repeating items. But it is however what I think so...

I have zero problem with gays. I know some gay people and they are usually more energetic and usually have a strong sense of humor. The problem I saw some people here shared and others I know is the public expressions. We don't need to see it constantly, some do this and some don't. This is the same as when your in public you don't want to see a guy and girl making out hardcore. Like someone said before it seems as if the homosexuals are using the sexual preference for attention at times.

The gay pride parade in Toronto usually goes overboard with obscene displays and what not. Random question though if being gay is considered normal in culture why is there no straight pride parade to go with the gay pride parade? Serious question and would like some serious/educated responses.

because things aren't equal. I'm a proud german/american...and even I know we can't have a white history month without a huge problem. So african americans have their month, hispanics have their day, and I'm more likely going to get out of a exhaust ticket.

You see a gay parade...and you don't see gay people killing straight people...yet if we had a "straight parade" i'm sure there would be gay bashing. The problem is control. It takes one asshole to mess everything up....I believe gay parades are made to have someone who isn't proud to be gay...to realize how he/she isn't alone. obviously there is that asshole making obscene gestures...there's one in every society.

please...if you read the bible...take it as it is....think about it to yourself.

[ronmcdon]

Idk about that.
you're still entitled to celebrate 'oktober-fest' for a whole month.
I know I celebrate (or use it as an excuse to drink to) my german heritage that way.

don't see remotely how celebrating one's heritage can be considered offensive,
and even if it is, that's their deal.

[!Zar!]

fckillerbee understands how it is.

[StaticX27]

The biggest question I have is why are people bringing religion into this whole thing? Religion doesn't decide right from wrong. Religion doesn't write our legislation. Religious organizations aren't the only ones who can conduct a marriage.

Everyone goes on and on about how immoral, wrong and sinful a gay relationship is, but seriously, who decides that? Isn't this the same type of hate that was going on against every other minority that the majority has hated on since the beginning of time? As far as the state and country is concerned, the gay community (male and female) are just another social group lobbying for rights. You could make them as choice oriented as Environmentalists, or you could compared them to racial equality groups, but the fact is, they are another social group that exists within the country.

As far as the state is concerned, being gay is no different than someone being black, in terms of legislation (not in terms of actuality, obviously). By making it so one social group does not have the same right as another (marriage, in this situation), its textbook inequality. Whether being homosexual is a sin or not is 100% irrelevant as far as law should be concerned (thus the whole idea of separation of church and state). Unfortunately, too many people take the bible as a guideline for being a "good" person. I don't believe in churches, the bible or what some guy in a funny dress preaches about on my day off. Does that mean I can't be a good person because I don't follow a book? I think not. I think the things that make me a good person are determined by the basics of humanity. The basic rule even the constitution of this country was founded upon: Don't do things that would infringe on the happiness of others.

No matter how much money the churches endorse into fighting against gay rights, this whole matter has nothing to do with religion, it's about rights of a social group; nothing more and nothing less. People think that giving gay's the right to marry, but calling it something else is fair. However, that's still acknowledging there's a difference between straight marriage and gay marriage, which comes back to the whole "Separate but equal" clause that existed in anti-african-american legislation. Even then, the supreme court ruled that Separate is not equal, yet we're saying it's okay now? Hypocritical.

Now, that doesn't mean there isn't a reason to oppose same sex marriage. I believe the movie that showed this was "I Now Pronounce You Chuck & Larry," where one guy was attempting to get benefits through gay marriage. These are the types of real issues that would come from allowing same sex marriage, and those are valid points in terms why same sex marriage shouldn't be allowed. But to sit there and say it shouldn't be allowed because you don't agree (which is basically the church's stance) with it is the same hypocritical, close-minded stance that was popular at every single act of segregation we've read about in history books.

People sit there and complain about gay orgies in public, yet no one remembers things like Mardi Gras that happens every year? They complain about Gay parents raising adopted children to be gay, I say that being raised by gay parents would be promoting open-mindedness to that child and teach that child a little thing many people lack; tolerance and acceptance. For a religious organization that preaches about tolerance and understanding of others, those same organizations are so quick to be intolerant of others and enforce their political persuasion. I wonder who's the evil in this situation? Who's oppressing the weak now?

You can put your positive and negative slant on the outcomes however you want to make yourself look better or the other guy worse. In the end, people are people. Straight parents have just a likely to screw up raising a kid as a pair of gay parents. Everyone hates those "flamboyant" gay men going around, like bruce the hair stylist, but think about how many of those guys we know, then compare it to those hyped up alpha-male marines and think about their attitude and how much it can piss you off too. People are people, and the quicker we can learn that and accept it, the faster we'll be able to move on to other things like getting our country out of debt.

[fckillerbee]

The biggest question I have is why are people bringing religion into this whole thing? Religion doesn't decide right from wrong. Religion doesn't write our legislation. Religious organizations aren't the only ones who can conduct a marriage.

Everyone goes on and on about how immoral, wrong and sinful a gay relationship is, but seriously, who decides that? Isn't this the same type of hate that was going on against every other minority that the majority has hated on since the beginning of time? As far as the state and country is concerned, the gay community (male and female) are just another social group lobbying for rights. You could make them as choice oriented as Environmentalists, or you could compared them to racial equality groups, but the fact is, they are another social group that exists within the country.

As far as the state is concerned, being gay is no different than someone being black, in terms of legislation (not in terms of actuality, obviously). By making it so one social group does not have the same right as another (marriage, in this situation), its textbook inequality. Whether being homosexual is a sin or not is 100% irrelevant as far as law should be concerned (thus the whole idea of separation of church and state). Unfortunately, too many people take the bible as a guideline for being a "good" person. I don't believe in churches, the bible or what some guy in a funny dress preaches about on my day off. Does that mean I can't be a good person because I don't follow a book? I think not. I think the things that make me a good person are determined by the basics of humanity. The basic rule even the constitution of this country was founded upon: Don't do things that would infringe on the happiness of others.

No matter how much money the churches endorse into fighting against gay rights, this whole matter has nothing to do with religion, it's about rights of a social group; nothing more and nothing less. People think that giving gay's the right to marry, but calling it something else is fair. However, that's still acknowledging there's a difference between straight marriage and gay marriage, which comes back to the whole "Separate but equal" clause that existed in anti-african-american legislation. Even then, the supreme court ruled that Separate is not equal, yet we're saying it's okay now? Hypocritical.

Now, that doesn't mean there isn't a reason to oppose same sex marriage. I believe the movie that showed this was "I Now Pronounce You Chuck & Larry," where one guy was attempting to get benefits through gay marriage. These are the types of real issues that would come from allowing same sex marriage, and those are valid points in terms why same sex marriage shouldn't be allowed. But to sit there and say it shouldn't be allowed because you don't agree (which is basically the church's stance) with it is the same hypocritical, close-minded stance that was popular at every single act of segregation we've read about in history books.

People sit there and complain about gay orgies in public, yet no one remembers things like Mardi Gras that happens every year? They complain about Gay parents raising adopted children to be gay, I say that being raised by gay parents would be promoting open-mindedness to that child and teach that child a little thing many people lack; tolerance and acceptance. For a religious organization that preaches about tolerance and understanding of others, those same organizations are so quick to be intolerant of others and enforce their political persuasion. I wonder who's the evil in this situation? Who's oppressing the weak now?

You can put your positive and negative slant on the outcomes however you want to make yourself look better or the other guy worse. In the end, people are people. Straight parents have just a likely to screw up raising a kid as a pair of gay parents. Everyone hates those "flamboyant" gay men going around, like bruce the hair stylist, but think about how many of those guys we know, then compare it to those hyped up alpha-male marines and think about their attitude and how much it can piss you off too. People are people, and the quicker we can learn that and accept it, the faster we'll be able to move on to other things like getting our country out of debt.

because...that is the only objective to why gay's can't marry. If you can name a reason other than religion... go for it....to make it easy...we should just eliminate marriage. Then what would happen? lol I mean...what do you "need" marriage for. As if two people can't have a binding agreement among themself?

[ronmcdon]

Well there 'ought' to be a separation in church & state.
In reality, I get the impression this is a feverently religious state.
At the very least, there are a good deal whom are voters.

The whole gay marriage thing is generally more accepted in Europe.
imo, they are 'generally' more secular and don't tend use religion as means to dictate policy.

[Enna]

American's are prudes.

[StaticX27]

because...that is the only objective to why gay's can't marry. If you can name a reason other than religion... go for it....to make it easy...we should just eliminate marriage. Then what would happen? lol I mean...what do you "need" marriage for. As if two people can't have a binding agreement among themself?

I supposed you didn't read the whole thing, because I answered that question. To answer your laziness, marriage provides a number of other benefits such as joint accounts, shared insurance policies (hey look, you can qualify for insurance through your work place by being married or being a child of the primary beneficiary), hospital visitation rights (family only?), immigration privledges (countries that don't have as detailed records about a family's geneology, cousins could marry each other for the purpose of getting a green card) and a multitude of other benefits extended to tax breaks all the way to getting free tickets to shows in Vegas (went with my girlfriend, and we couldn't qualify because we didn't live at the same address *tear*). Those are various things you can't qualify for with these "binding agreements among themselves."

As I mentioned, the movie "I now pronounce you Chuck and Larry" was a prime argument against same sex marriage that had absolutely no roots in religion. It provides loopholes to qualifying for various things in our society that are marriage concentric, which is a strong reason to oppose same sex marriage. However, if religion is your only reason for opposing it, as I stated, you're just enforcing your beliefs on other people and infringing on their happiness. In other words, if religion is your only reason for opposing gay marriage, then you're no different than the bigots who opposed African American rights, or Women's rights. No where does it indicate that law should follow religion, and no where is it defined that religion determines "right" and "wrong," so why is it religion is determining right and wrong in this situation? Fear and Closed-mindedness is the answer to that question.

[!Zar!]

Gay marriage is no more of a sin than masturbation. Both take place in privacy and does not involve anyone else other than the individual/s participating in the act.

Iirc the bible has things that hint towards not masturbating and how it is a sin. So does that mean that people who masturbate shouldn't be allowed to marry?

Same shit right?

[fckillerbee]

I supposed you didn't read the whole thing, because I answered that question. To answer your laziness, marriage provides a number of other benefits such as joint accounts, shared insurance policies (hey look, you can qualify for insurance through your work place by being married or being a child of the primary beneficiary), hospital visitation rights (family only?), immigration privledges (countries that don't have as detailed records about a family's geneology, cousins could marry each other for the purpose of getting a green card) and a multitude of other benefits extended to tax breaks all the way to getting free tickets to shows in Vegas (went with my girlfriend, and we couldn't qualify because we didn't live at the same address *tear*). Those are various things you can't qualify for with these "binding agreements among themselves."

As I mentioned, the movie "I now pronounce you Chuck and Larry" was a prime argument against same sex marriage that had absolutely no roots in religion. It provides loopholes to qualifying for various things in our society that are marriage concentric, which is a strong reason to oppose same sex marriage. However, if religion is your only reason for opposing it, as I stated, you're just enforcing your beliefs on other people and infringing on their happiness. In other words, if religion is your only reason for opposing gay marriage, then you're no different than the bigots who opposed African American rights, or Women's rights. No where does it indicate that law should follow religion, and no where is it defined that religion determines "right" and "wrong," so why is it religion is determining right and wrong in this situation? Fear and Closed-mindedness is the answer to that question.

I did read the whole thing jackass. obviously you answered the same way I did. You also asked a question. I said eliminate marriage...because of religion. Then people would just have to get into "legal" agreements. For health care....movie tickets...yada yada.

What stops someone from getting a legal marriage certificate if say...they change their name, dress up like a girl, and get married. Does someone actually look up their social...find their name change..and see who they were before and deny their marriage certificate?

I understand there are benefits to being married.... what I'm saying is....why does it have to be marriage that is a binding contract to those benefits? Because everyone will take advantage of it? As if they wouldn't when it becomes legal for gays to marry? As if straight people don't take advantage of "getting married" for reasons not related to love.

This eliminating marriage question...was for the one that is religious. for the one that is saying its a sin to live together if your not married....blah blah blah... What if we eliminated marriage. Then what would "his" argument be if he also couldn't get "married".

[!Zar!]

So far that is the most 'real' debate comment in this thread in a while.

[StaticX27]

I did read the whole thing jackass. obviously you answered the same way I did. You also asked a question. I said eliminate marriage...because of religion. Then people would just have to get into "legal" agreements. For health care....movie tickets...yada yada.

What stops someone from getting a legal marriage certificate if say...they change their name, dress up like a girl, and get married. Does someone actually look up their social...find their name change..and see who they were before and deny their marriage certificate?

I understand there are benefits to being married.... what I'm saying is....why does it have to be marriage that is a binding contract to those benefits? Because everyone will take advantage of it? As if they wouldn't when it becomes legal for gays to marry? As if straight people don't take advantage of "getting married" for reasons not related to love.

This eliminating marriage question...was for the one that is religious. for the one that is saying its a sin to live together if your not married....blah blah blah... What if we eliminated marriage. Then what would "his" argument be if he also couldn't get "married".

For purposes of this argument, I consider marriage to be the name in which this binding contract exists, not as a religious ceremony symbolizing the unit of two people, which is the way it's viewed now.

Now, if you're suggesting getting rid of the term marriage in reference to the religious meaning, then sure, go for it, it would have no effect on the contractual binding that is marriage now.

Just FYI, yes, when you file your marriage certificate, it is tied to your social security number, which would effectively null your marriage to whomever it is you're marrying in the eyes of the government. Can you imagine the look of surprise on a guy's face when he gets a letter in the male saying his marriage certificate has been declined because his spouse was a transsexual? I would probably hang myself....

In essence, I do agree with you in many aspects, marriage as a whole has been too closely identified to be synonymous with religion in general that the Religious Reich feels it belongs to them and their laws should dictate what's acceptable. Having been to 3 weddings in this past year alone that were not held at a church, I consider it complete and utter zombie-bullshit that the churches are all up in arms over same sex marriage, moreover, that their opinions are affecting policy because of their own opinions on how people should live. You don't see me trying to pass laws that put the bible in the fiction section of a book store, why should they get to affect policy that has absolutely no affect on themselves?

[fckillerbee]

For purposes of this argument, I consider marriage to be the name in which this binding contract exists, not as a religious ceremony symbolizing the unit of two people, which is the way it's viewed now.

Now, if you're suggesting getting rid of the term marriage in reference to the religious meaning, then sure, go for it, it would have no effect on the contractual binding that is marriage now.

Just FYI, yes, when you file your marriage certificate, it is tied to your social security number, which would effectively null your marriage to whomever it is you're marrying in the eyes of the government. Can you imagine the look of surprise on a guy's face when he gets a letter in the male saying his marriage certificate has been declined because his spouse was a transsexual? I would probably hang myself....

In essence, I do agree with you in many aspects, marriage as a whole has been too closely identified to be synonymous with religion in general that the Religious Reich feels it belongs to them and their laws should dictate what's acceptable. Having been to 3 weddings in this past year alone that were not held at a church, I consider it complete and utter zombie-bullshit that the churches are all up in arms over same sex marriage, moreover, that their opinions are affecting policy because of their own opinions on how people should live. You don't see me trying to pass laws that put the bible in the fiction section of a book store, why should they get to affect policy that has absolutely no affect on themselves?

i have always looked at marriage as a ceremony between two people. But then again...i was raised christian...and my father is a firm believer of marriage. He actually gave me tons of shit when he found out I was living with my gf (now my wife) at the time.

more so getting rid of marriage as a legal aspect. Meaning...no marriage certificate. nothing stating two people are "jointed in marriage". So if one person wanted to get insurance under their spouse...documents should be given....or verified. Not a marriage cert.

kinda like the amount of shit given to people who try and marry a philipino woman...that doesn't speak english...so the court systems have to prove "love" or something along those lines. I just want to see equality. That is what this is about....right. Cause "god" made everyone equally. So we should have equal rights. Regardless of what a book may say.

Now I don't believe people should marry animals. Regardless of how much love one may have for their animal. lol

haha...on a side note...there was a movie kinda like this. but didn't go in detail about the messed up transexual marriage. The movie was more about a woman trying to kill her husband for insurance money. But the guy helping her...got married...went to have a honey moon...and BLAMO! penises on both sides! lol

haha<---right brain thinking color coordinated lol

I would like to see someone challenge the bible as fiction or non fiction....just to see the controversy. lol

[StaticX27]

I would like to see someone challenge the bible as fiction or non fiction....just to see the controversy. lol

I think that's why it's in the "Spiritual" section of the book store to avoid the whole controversy all together. I've been to bible study groups and such and honestly, some people are closed-minded to an extreme. My theory, if you can sit through Dogma without getting offended, you're cool in my book. They made a lot of really good points through the whole movie that poked fun at religion, but still would make an open minded person go "Hmmmmm."

So you're saying get rid of the marriage contract entirely, and go with separate forms, say filing insurance jointly, almost like a cosigner on a credit card? Interesting concept, it would require a complete revamp of everything that we do now. Although I think it would be bad ass to see a complete disbanding of green card marriages. Love your wife? Help her meet the immigration requirements necessary to come here then! Don't bust out the hax and marry her :P

[fckillerbee]

I think that's why it's in the "Spiritual" section of the book store to avoid the whole controversy all together. I've been to bible study groups and such and honestly, some people are closed-minded to an extreme. My theory, if you can sit through Dogma without getting offended, you're cool in my book. They made a lot of really good points through the whole movie that poked fun at religion, but still would make an open minded person go "Hmmmmm."

So you're saying get rid of the marriage contract entirely, and go with separate forms, say filing insurance jointly, almost like a cosigner on a credit card? Interesting concept, it would require a complete revamp of everything that we do now. Although I think it would be bad ass to see a complete disbanding of green card marriages. Love your wife? Help her meet the immigration requirements necessary to come here then! Don't bust out the hax and marry her :P


haha exactly....people are soooo closed minded...I dated a girl for 4 years where her dad was on the board for calvary chapel in coasta mesa....some of those people are just surprising...and yes...I was there every sunday...and monday services. My dad is one of them....so for the people that didn't understand my posts about making my dad quit smoking....I told him this.

ME: So....dad...is committing suicide a sin? (i obviously know the answer)
DAD: yes....
ME: Did you know that smoking is the 4th leading cause of death in the US.
DAD: Looking confused right now...
ME: ....so....your going to hell!
DAD: No, I'm not going to hell.
ME:really? cause you knowingly put the cigarette up to your mouth...which could lead to death...that's suicide!
DAD: puts the cigarette out...hasn't smoked one since.
and I laugh my ass off everytime I tell that story!

[Bubbles]

Iirc the bible has things that hint towards not masturbating and how it is a sin.



The sins I would publicly commit if I didn't knock one out every now and again.


It'd be bad.

[slowpo]

For me, I feel as if I was mainly born the way I am. I was always more interested in boys--even at a young age. I fell in love with my best friend throughout middle school (a guy), and so I came to terms with my sexuality around ninth grade. I have had passionate feelings for a female; they were just not even close to as strong as they are for the males I have been passionate for.

Nurture has little to nothing to do with me being a homosexual. I grew up in a gay-bashing family, I grew up with gay-bashing friends, and so I was very confused as to what to do. I have 'tried to be straight,' but when it comes down to it, it's just not worth forcing yourself to do things you don't feel right about.

listen young man your just confused. Um, well you see son. Being a Christian and all I really don't have time to listen to your whining and complaining. At the end of the day I get to watch you roast in the lake of fire for eternity while sipping on a nice cold beer with Baby Jesus. So is your call son if I was you I repent now. Godbless you.

[Enna]

The sins I would publicly commit if I didn't knock one out every now and again.


It'd be bad.

The truth.

[ESmorz]

The fact that this thread exists and that this is a legitimate talking and debate point for a lot people is exactly what's wrong with our states, this country, and every other country like us or worst than us. (Mind you I am aware and thankful that we have the freedom to do so)

But seriously;

They are just like us, except they like the same sex... "oh no the sky is falling because some dudes making out with another dude, and this book (written thousands of years ago in a section filled with tons of shit that is no longer relevant) tells me that's bad and that we should condemn them not only in our churches but in their everyday public life, and prohibit them from doing everything we can do". Yes, I also realize the ensuing shit storm that the churches shouldn't be forced into allowing it be a marriage and the sanctity of their word. It's just that though, a word. I think and would hope your God would like you to put aside the meaning of a word that is harmful to no one in the pursuit of a groups happiness and inclusion into society.

If not... Get the fuck over yourselves.

[BustedS13]

listen young man your just confused. Um, well you see son. Being a Christian and all I really don't have time to listen to your whining and complaining. At the end of the day I get to watch you roast in the lake of fire for eternity while sipping on a nice cold beer with Baby Jesus. So is your call son if I was you I repent now. Godbless you.

Matthew 7.
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mk. 4.24
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.now, i think the bible is a box of horseshit. but that's just me.
but you'd think that you would know the rules, being a devout Christian and all.



....wait, were you just being ironic? my bad.