OG's: Critique my build (please)

[JacksonBrown]

Fellas,

Please reply if you have experience building SR's and/or have something constructive to add to this thread. I've searched a number of threads and have found varying degrees of similarities between my potential set-up, but each build is different. I'm not requesting exact, empirical data/outcome, but rather from peeps experience if there's something that I'm missing (I've not yet pulled the trigger on ALL of the parts).

Thanks in advance!

SET UP

S14 SR
2871 .64
Tomei Poncams 264 Intake & Exhaust (10.5 lift/duration)
Tomei headgasket 1.6mm 86mm bore
Sard 850cc's
ProEFI 48 Box (http://proefi.com/)
Sard fuel pressure regulator
Koyo Rad
GReddy oil pan
Turbo elbow
Downpipe
3" exhaust (no cat)
FMIC
Pulsar 70mm Throttle body
Stock manifolds

Goals:

Daily driven
350whp
Powerband more aggressive in the mid-top range
91 pump

QUESTIONS:

1. Valve springs are a good insurance policy, but are they necessary given my goals/set up?
2. Considering my goals, am I on the right track with 264 cams?
3. Is there any glaring deficiency that I'm not taking into account?
4. What are other alternatives that can/should be considered, given my goals?

Thanks in advance!!!

[Dousan_PG]

id go w/ the valve springs they dotn cost much and its worth it with the bigger cams
but id do like 256/264 cams. i have that w/ a 3071 as did my friend w/ his t3 turbo. works great.

what clutch u using???
what tune/computer??

[JacksonBrown]

Aaron,

Thanks for your prompt reply. Answers:

RPS 6-Puck Max
ProEFI engine management:
ProEFI (http://www.proefi.com)

ProEFI is a fairly new company who's founder/President is Jason Siebels. Jason was one of the head developers of the AEM EMS and left AEM about 3 years ago to start ProEFI. It's a true stand alone. I've had it on my car for almost a year now and it's doing well. My current set up is stock cams, t28, Sard 550s, Sard fuel pressure reg, Walbro 255, Walbro.

So, do you believe that it's better to go w/ 256 intake and 264 exhaust then?

[MADE]

Tomei doesn't make 264's for an SR, also any thing over thier 256 will require springs.
You should be able to lose the upgraded TB and FPR and come about with the same HP.

[JacksonBrown]

Actually, Tomei does:

Camshaft (http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-catalogue/e076_cam_SR20DET.html)

I talked to Dennis at Kure today and he recommended* but didn't require valve springs for the set up. Regardless, now that a couple people have confirmed what he suggested, I will also do the valve springs.

Now that I've decided on that, what are peeps thoughts about doing 264's (both intake and exhaust) vs doing a 256/264 or doing both 256?

(Thanks everyone again)

[MADE]

Actually, Tomei does:

Camshaft (http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-catalogue/e076_cam_SR20DET.html)

I talked to Dennis at Kure today and he recommended* but didn't require valve springs for the set up. Regardless, now that a couple people have confirmed what he suggested, I will also do the valve springs.

Now that I've decided on that, what are peeps thoughts about doing 264's (both intake and exhaust) vs doing a 256/264 or doing both 256?

(Thanks everyone again)

:ddog: Did you look at your link?

I have a S14SR with 260's I say stick with those and the Turbine you suggested. I planned to do the Full Race 3071 like Dousan mention but for me it would be overkill. So more than likely I'm going with the 2871 w/ Tomei mani.

[JacksonBrown]

Doh!

Apparently I was blinded by my convo w/ Dennis @ Kure and didn't inspect the Tomei page to reveal that they're 260s rather than 264s. Strange. This makes me wonder why Dennis didn't advise me that Tomei doesn't make them when I specifically asked him about em... He must have been talking about the 260s the whole time, even though we were chatting via AIM.

I like the idea of 260s anyways, as a happy median between 256 and 264. This should make an awesome mid mid range set up w/ the 2871 .64 and stock manifolds.

You really don't see much gains to be had w/ the 70mm Pulsar TB? The stock SR TB is teeeny. I have a GReddy intake manifold too, but don't want to put it in the equation as I don't want to sacrifice any low end.

[waynehead05]

The throttle body is fine. It'll help response as well as total power a little. Why 850's?

[TheWolf]

Are you planning to drift with this motor?

[JacksonBrown]

The throttle body is fine. It'll help response as well as total power a little. Why 850's?

I ordered 850s because at the time my goal was to also run E85 100% of the time. The idea was axed when I discovered that 40% more fuel is required when running E85. My point in running it was safety (as originally I was shooting for 330+ w/ stock cams). The ProEFI can control injector duty cycle at any load, so there won't be a problem with idle on light load with such a big injector. I'm keeping the injectors for that reason, as well as being able to keep duty cycle low(er) even at WOT.

My goal for the throttle body was response, so I'm glad you brought that up. I don't believe that it will make a great impact in overall horsepower either.

Are you planning to drift with this motor?

At this time, no. If I ever do, it will be when I retire the car as a 100% daily driven vehicle. Given the set ups that my friends why drift professionally (Ryan Hampton, Marc Bergeon) have, as well as a few pro/am's, I think this set up would be sufficient for drifting if I chose to do so.

So, I'll be keeping the throttle body and going 260s all around with valve springs.

[slociv]

Rocker arm stoppers are a must imo. I prefer the HKS cams because I've used them a lot. We used a 2871/peak performance manifold with hks step ones Springs/ retainers, rods/ pistons, gasket and studs and aem it made 343whp/318tq on 18psi. The motor was built about 4 years ago and is still holding stong, was used in FD, Nopi and many other series.

We also did a 3071 w/ 264/272 hks steps twos, full build motor and made 460whp/388tq on 20psi on 93 octane.

I would also recommend a proper exhaust maifold.... We use Peak Boost on majority of our builds.

I've build about 30 sr's with a range of different setups, this one was one of the most fun to drive.

[JacksonBrown]

Thanks for your reply.

There's obviously several methods/set-ups to attain my goals. I want to maintain as much OEM parts as possible, while keeping it reliable, to obtain 350whp. In my estimation, I see no need to throw everything at it (pistons, rods, valves) to reach 350whp. I think that my hp goals are actually very conservative, given that many peeps try to go for high 300s w/ this turbo.

Regarding AEM/PowerFC, the ProEFI, while new to the SR world, is making huge numbers in the 2jz-gte and VQ35de world. My car, as well as another local car to me are the two test platforms for SR for the ProEFI.

There's a local guy who has a Skyline GTR V-SpecII w/ twin 28r's. He had a PowerFC on it for a couple of years and was tuned at XS Engineering. With the ProEFI, I personally saw that it took .3 bar (4.3 psi) less boost to make 30 more whp (vs PowerFC).

Edit: I will be doing GReddy rocker arm stoppers as well.

[TheWolf]

Since your not going sideways oil control is fine. Your setup looks good. I'd keep stock manifold if it will work for your turbo. Less to break.

[waynehead05]

I've seen rocker arm stoppers for an sr... Do they really work? It just looks like it won't if a rocker is actually thrown.

[speedfiend]

Tomei doesn't make 264's for an SR, also any thing over thier 256 will require springs.
You should be able to lose the upgraded TB and FPR and come about with the same HP.

If you are referring to the 264 cams from hks, then I am going to have to disagree with you on having to change your springs. I have been running the 256/264 hks setup on my s14 sr for about two and half years now with stock springs and hks ras with absolutely no problems.

To the OP I would really suggest looking into the staggeredd 256/264 hks cam setup for your build. They are a fabulous compromise between mid-range and top-end power like you are looking for. I believe with your turbine setup and power goals this cam setup would probably suit you perfectly. Oh and like mentioned above I definately suggest purchasing the rocker arm stoppers as well. Just my .02.
Cameron

[JacksonBrown]

Hellos,

Thanks for all of the input lads and germs. In addition to this thread, I've been discussing this with some local pro/am and pro drifters -- some peeps that work with us and/or just hang out at the shop.. ahhaah..

Anyways, this is where I'm at after all discussion:

S14 SR
2871 .64
Tomei Poncams 256 Intake & Exhaust (11.5 lift/duration)
Tomei headgasket 1.2mm (87mm bore?)
Sard 850cc's
ProEFI 48 Box (http://proefi.com/)
Sard fuel pressure regulator
Koyo Rad
GReddy oil pan
Turbo elbow
Downpipe
3" exhaust (no cat)
FMIC
Pulsar 70mm Throttle body
Stock intake manifold
Megan Exhaust manifold

Basically, this differs from the original potential set-up by:

A. Adding the Megan exhaust manifold (I got it for free so why not?)
B. Keeping the Pulsar throttle body
C. Using a 1.2mm headgasket rather than 1.6mm (I don't want to drop the compression too much..)
D. Going 256 Poncams all around vs 264 or 260 cams

Whatcha all think now?

(Thanks everyone again):kiss:

[MADE]

Ok some of the stuff you already have and some your interested in purchasing?

[kensreliableb18b]

256's is good for low to mid-range. depending on how much you're gonna boost daily, is your heart set on 350whp (unsure of your 256 and 2871 .64 combo)?

glad to hear you changed the 1.6 to 1.2. everything on the list looks good. i'd still get valve springs and RAS cuz they're cheap and i'm anal like that. good luck!

[JacksonBrown]

Ok some of the stuff you already have and some your interested in purchasing?

Yes, of that list I have already on the car:

S14 SR
Sard Fuel Pressure Regulator
Sard 550cc's
ProEFI Engine Management
GReddy Oil Pan
FMIC
Turbo Elbow
3" Downpipe
3" Exhaust
Walbro 255 HF
RPS 6-Puck Max
Stock manifolds

It's been street tuned by Jason Siebels, but never on the dyno

Parts I own, but haven't installed:

2871 .64
Pulsar Throttle Body (need Tomei adapter)
Megan Exhaust Manifold
Sard 850s

Parts I am/was on the fence about and/or don't own yet:

Cams (256 or 260)?
Whether or not to use the Pulsar Throttle body
Whether or not to use the Megan manifold

What I've decided on:

Tomei 256 Poncams (Intake and Exhaust)
Using the Throttle body
Using the Megan manifold

The Tomei cams and throttle body adapter are 3 weeks out, so this won't get done until mid-August. I just dropped off the turbo to Jet Hot for 1700 degree hot side coating and am thinking about doing the same for the Megan manifold.

[JacksonBrown]

256's is good for low to mid-range. depending on how much you're gonna boost daily, is your heart set on 350whp (unsure of your 256 and 2871 .64 combo)?

glad to hear you changed the 1.6 to 1.2. everything on the list looks good. i'd still get valve springs and RAS cuz they're cheap and i'm anal like that. good luck!

My goal is 350whp daily, yes. Do you disagree w/ running the 256's for both intake and exhaust given this goal?

I may even go to the Apexi 1.1mm 86mm bore headgasket. All I've heard from my friends is rave reviews about their headgaskets and haven't heard any reviews about Tomei. I trust Tomei as a manufacturer, obviously, but I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on the Apexi 1.1mm.

Thanks again eveyone's of you's!!!

[speedfiend]

Im personally running a Tomei 1.2mm HG on my S14 blacktop. Havent had a single problem with it. I would highly recommend it but you cant go wrong with the Apexi either. Just for future reference if you find the Tomei cheaper or something.
Cameron

[fliprayzin240sx]

Get rid of the MR manifold, and spend the money on a Tomei Elbow...makes more difference than the shitty MR manifold.

[fromxtor]

^^ That and using a OEM headgasket is good insurance after spending all that money. A friend of mine (Matt Martin), ran a OEM gasket on his 400+hp KA-t and never had a problem. Are you not thinking about using ARP headstuds?

[JacksonBrown]

^^ That and using a OEM headgasket is good insurance after spending all that money. A friend of mine (Matt Martin), ran a OEM gasket on his 400+hp KA-t and never had a problem. Are you not thinking about using ARP headstuds?

(waking up this thread after a few weeks of hiatus!)

In addressing your post: I've axed the idea of going with an aftermarket headgasket at this time, and I will be running stock head studs as well. After a lengthy discussion with my friend, and am drifter, Champa, who has built a few SR's (the last one being bone stock, except a 2871 .64 that's seen countless track events on 20+ psi and ethonol, making 380whp and running like a bat outta hell) I've decided to just run the Tomei 260s, Tomei valve springs and keep everything else stock.

Shit I'm keeping stock:

Headgasket
Head studs
Bottom end
Intake, exhaust manifold, throttle body

So, my final set-up will consist of:

S14 SR
Sard Fuel Pressure Regulator
Sard 850cc's
ProEFI Engine Management
GReddy Oil Pan
FMIC
Turbo Elbow
3" Downpipe
3" Exhaust
Walbro 255 HF
RPS 6-Puck Max
GReddy rocker arm stoppers
Stock manifolds
2871 .64
Tomei 260 Poncams
Toemi valve springs
Either full time E85 or a mixture of 91 pump and E85

Basically, I decided to keep as much possible stock to maintain OE reliability, while at the same time adding insurance in the form of the weekest link of the valve train for (valve springs). The E85 and/or E85 mixture (ProEFI in conjuction with a GM fuel sensor can run different fuel blends!) will be awesome in obtaining 350whp safely, and the 260 cams will get the job done without requiring valves. I'm not drifting the car and/or bouncing off the rev limiter all the time -- in fact it's not very often that I do bounce it off the limiter now that I think about it. I will take my luck, in conjuction with some technical probability, that the stock head gasket will suffice for now (I'm REALLY not wanting to pull of the head to get this all done anyways..).

So, I just got my exhaust housing back from Jet Hot, in Tempe. My turbo is getting a new exhaust wheel and all new seals on it (I bought it from a friend who only used it in 8 events but somehow the exhaust wheel looked rough when we pulled it apart so I'm having it and the seals replaced while they're at it). The cams and valve springs are still in the Tomei boxes, but if all goes as planned, I should be on the dyno in the next couple of weeks.

Getting stoked as the finality of the build is def coming to its climax.. lol. The car just came back from paint since I've updated this thread and I've changed up the cooling set-up (ditched the Taurus fan in favor of an S14SR shroud, RB25 clutch and fan, and an aftermarket electric fan for the condensor). I was going through those 30amp? big blue Nissan relays too often because when the Taurus fan was on high it was pulling too many amps (prob around 40-50 amps) and frying relays! I also had to move my Tial blow off valve to the hot side because the shroud is so big that the Tial was in the way. So far (for a week now) the coolant temps, even on the freeway when it's 110+ out, don't go above 187F. I realize that's getting towards the "oh shit I'd better turn off the a/c and/or turn on the heater!" but it's an SR in 110+ temps, on the freeway, with the a/c blowing! Not sure if it's just the pure stoopid heat outside, or I need a re-charge, but unless I'm moving over 60mph, the a/c SUCKS..

Anyways, I'm rambling now (it's Friday and I'm partying by my lonesome, if you dig..).:cool: If anyone has more input, etc, please don't hesitate. I'm looking forward to updating this thread shortly with the dyno results.. tick tock..