Abortion doctor murdered at church in Kansas (who would have thought)

[Matej]

Arrest made in slaying of Kan. abortion doctor - Crime & courts- msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31029377/)
Guns, church, abortion. A Kansas tale.

WICHITA, Kansas - An arrest has been made in the slaying of late-term abortion doctor George Tiller, who was gunned down Sunday morning at his church in Wichita, Kan., according to an FBI spokesperson.

Tiller, a prominent advocate for abortion rights wounded by a protester more than a decade ago, was serving as an usher and his wife was in the choir at the time of the shooting, his attorney said.

Tiller was shot during morning services at Reformation Lutheran Church, attorney Dan Monnat said. FBI said the suspect was apprehended without incident. An earlier manhunt was focused on a car registered to a Kansas City suburb nearly 200 miles away.

National anti-abortion groups had long focused on Tiller, one of the nation's few providers of late-term abortions. In 1991, the Summer of Mercy protests organized by Operation Rescue drew thousands of anti-abortion activists to this city for demonstrations marked by civil disobedience and mass arrests.

Shot in the arms in 1993
Some abortion opponents had resorted to attacks against Tiller and his Women's Health Care Services clinic long before Sunday's shooting. A protester shot Tiller in both arms in 1993, and his clinic was bombed in 1985.

The women's clinic run by Tiller is one of three in the nation where abortions are performed after the 21st week of pregnancy, when the fetus is considered viable, and has repeatedly been the site of protests for about two decades. A protester shot Tiller in both arms in 1993, and his clinic was bombed in 1985.

Monnat said Sunday that Tiller had asked federal prosecutors to step up investigations of vandalism and other threats against the clinic out of fear that the incidents were increasing and that Tiller's safety was in jeopardy.

Tiller's attorneys issued a statement on behalf of his wife, four children and 10 grandchildren.

"Today's event is an unspeakable tragedy for all of us and for George's friends and patients. This is particularly heart-wrenching because George was shot down in his house of worship, a place of peace," the statement said.

"Our loss is also a loss for the city of Wichita and women across America. George dedicated his life to providing women with high-quality heath care despite frequent threats and violence."

Operation Rescue denounces shooting
Anti-abortion group Operation Rescue issued a statement denouncing the shooting.

"We are shocked at this morning's disturbing news that Mr. Tiller was gunned down," said Troy Newman, Operation Rescue's president. "Operation Rescue has worked for years through peaceful, legal means, and through the proper channels to see him brought to justice. We denounce vigilantism and the cowardly act that took place this morning."

Tiller began providing abortion services in 1973. He acknowledged abortion was as socially divisive as slavery or prohibition but said the issue was about giving women a choice when dealing with technology that can diagnose severe fetal abnormalities before a baby is born.

"Pre-natal testing without pre-natal choices is medical fraud," Tiller once said.

After the 1991 protests, Tiller kept mostly to his heavily guarded clinic, although in 1997 he opened it to three tours by state lawmakers and the media.

Tiller remained prominent in the news, in part because of an investigation started begun by former Kansas Attorney General Phill Kline, an abortion opponent.

Jury acquitted him in March
Prosecutors had alleged that Tiller had gotten second opinions from a doctor who was essentially an employee of his, not independent as state law requires. A jury in March acquitted Tiller of all 19 misdemeanor counts.In the past, his clinic has been bombed, he has been shot in both his arms, and his property was vandalized constantly.
The life of an abortion doctor must be rough.

[HyperTek]

wow that sucks! id rather people do abortions than try to raise a kid that they cant even raise properly in a good environment.. these piece of shits who disliked him will just reproduce =(
RIP

[Bubbles]

The life of an abortion doctor must be rough.


It would seem choosing a profession that ends peoples' lives isn't so easy.

[Bubbles]

id rather people do abortions than try to raise a kid that they cant even raise properly in a good environment..


I'd rather people use a rubber or two.

[SexPanda]

Wow, that sucks.

As far as abortion goes... Well, lets just say Im all for survival of the fittest and natural selection.

[jamg]

I'd rather people use a rubber or two.

wouldn't we all?

but the fact is that people don't, and will not pull out. they make babies on accident. babies who grow up to either be successful, or the scum bags of this earth.

[Matej]

It would seem choosing a profession that ends peoples' lives isn't so easy.
Don't know, it doesn't seem difficult for the stereotypical Midwest-mentality pro-life patriots to join the army in order to "shoot themselves some [insert racist slur for people living in the Middle East]."

[ronmcdon]

I think that you have to consider the circumstances, where-ever you choose to live.
Given that, I don't think it's wise to open up a business in place that doesn't welcome you.
I don't know if the doc did this to be a martyr of ideals, or if he was just reckless.

[Matej]

I think that you have to consider the circumstances, where-ever you choose to live.
Given that, I don't think it's wise to open up a business in place that doesn't welcome you.
I don't know if the doc did this to be a martyr of ideals, or if he was just reckless.
From a business perspective, the demand was always there and has only been growing, and he had virtually no competition in Kansas.
Perhaps it was truly idiotic, or perhaps it seemed like a genius idea, he just did not count on what extremes people would be willing to go to.

[Kouki_Love]

danmm that sucks!!! i dont really agree with aborting, adoption is a way better way to go but hey, to each their own i guess.

R.I.P

[brndck]

+1 for rubbers and birth control.
+1 for alternatives to a child being raised by someone who is completely incapable/unwilling to put forth the necessary effort to do a good job. (caylee anthony ring a bell?)
procreation is completely unnecessary at this point.
are we running short of humans?

no.

so why do we need more?

i boycott having kids until there is a shortage of people.

[Matej]

There will not be a shortage of people. Shortage of intelligent people, perhaps.

[SexPanda]

We need to just lose everything we rely on for day to day life. Give us a year of anarchy, and then when all the stupid/weak/unnecessary people are dead, give it all back, the same as before... except better.

[Ralliart4]

wow that sucks! id rather people do abortions than try to raise a kid that they cant even raise properly in a good environment.. these piece of shits who disliked him will just reproduce =(
RIP


I agree and as long as the government supports a sysem where it is a financial incentive to BREED like wild animals.. they will continue to bleed the system.

[SexPanda]

So what your saying is that we should fix all the stupid people like we do dogs?

Because I'm down like a clown charlie brown. I don't want to toot my own horn, but I'm safe.

[FaLKoN240]

Yay a thread where ZILVIA is arguing about morals, this is going to go REALLY far.

[Shmex]

wow, that really sucks.

Too many people push their opinions on people. This guy felt the badside of that.

I agree with abortion if their is an unstable family life, and no means to bring up a decent human being.

I dont believe in adoption, unless its a private adoption and its going to an actual family(thats how i was adopted when i was born)....

[murda-c]

We need to just lose everything we rely on for day to day life. Give us a year of anarchy, and then when all the stupid/weak/unnecessary people are dead, give it all back, the same as before... except better.

Do you think that the people who thrive in that situation will the be the ones who are the most intelligent or just the most ruthless and willing to hurt others?

It'll just turn us into a society full of assholes.

[Bubbles]

but the fact is that people don't, and will not pull out. they make babies on accident. babies who grow up to either be successful, or the scum bags of this earth.


Pulling out is a myth.

It's not anyone's choice whether the baby becomes 'successful' or a 'scum bag.'

That's irrelevant.




Don't know, it doesn't seem difficult for the stereotypical Midwest-mentality pro-life patriots to join the army in order to "shoot themselves some [insert racist slur for people living in the Middle East]."



You're making a huge assumption that all 'stereotypical Midwest-mentality pro-life patriots' only join the army to shoot certain people.




It'll just turn us into a society full of assholes.


We're not that far off.

[Matej]

You're making a huge assumption that all 'stereotypical Midwest-mentality pro-life patriots' only join the army to shoot certain people.
No.
Only the stereotypical ones.

[SexPanda]

Like busteds13 bubbles and I. Were gonna go over there, freebase, listen to Conway Twitty, and smack around some arabian women.

[Matej]

No, you guys are not stereotypical Midwesterners.
I can tell because you are on a Nissan forum.

[SexPanda]

I've been found out!

Play me off Sal!

lol I also own a suba... Um... I've got a beat up Rx7 with a SBC350? That work?

[HyperTek]

ok guys lets not turn this into a abortion debate lol. We all have our beliefs. This guy didnt deserve to die tho because his career was still helping people out who seeked it.

[flip3d]

Jesus Christ. Shit's ridiculous. Why protest? They aren't aborting YOUR child. Mind your fucking business.

Let the guy live his live and do what he chose to do. Fuck.

[Bubbles]

It's not healthy to get so worked up over reading stuff on the internet bro.


Keep that heart in check and chill.

[!Zar!]

http://420.thrashbarg.net/abortion_yay_omelets.jpg

[hOngsterr]

shit,
plan b homie!
effective in the first 72 hours!
lol

[!Zar!]

Plan B?

Fuck that.

Plan P for punch that bitch in the stomach.

[qwikspool]

that sucks.
yeah what happend to the good ol pull out method or using a jimmy hat :goyou:

[SoCal-s130]

Is it fucked up that there was a "Pregnant?" ad in this thread?

[meteorite_flo]

Is it fucked up that there was a "Pregnant?" ad in this thread?

No, it's just a AD.

[RiversideS13]

if the killer is thinking about saving the world, he should have gone to china!

[Jimmy Up]

I dont believe in abortion.

Jimmy Up

But to kill somebody that is doing something that is legal and he is getting paid to do is pretty fuckin stupid. Another Doctor is going to come in and do the same shit. -personal opinion

[Grendel]

But to kill somebody that is doing something that is legal and he is getting paid to do is pretty fuckin stupid. Another Doctor is going to come in and do the same shit. -personal opinion

The real issue here is these hypocrite fanatics preach all day about the evils of taking a life, then (most of them) have no problems with this lunatic that killed this doctor. Its sick.

[Felipe]

Plan B?

Fuck that.

Plan P for punch that bitch in the stomach.


Plan P + K just to make sure...

[TheWolf]

The real issue here is these hypocrite fanatics preach all day about the evils of taking a life, then (most of them) have no problems with this lunatic that killed this doctor. Its sick.

Yeah see the real deeply religious people will just introduce him to a predator..

You know.. Break his knees then drag him offshore in a boat.. 4 cans of catfood really get sharks moving.. then toss him overboard..

If he lives... well it was divine intervention cause no one else was gonna save his ass...

I thought about shedding a tear but I knew better...

Late term abortions are sick. you rip the arms and legs off with surgical salad tongs. then while it's bleeding out you crush the skull because it's to big to come out otherwise except piece by piece. Do this day in and day out at a clinic?

[BustedS13]

how is babby formed >: (

[s14unimog]

Late term abortions are sick. you rip the arms and legs off with surgical salad tongs. then while it's bleeding out you crush the skull because it's to big to come out otherwise except piece by piece. Do this day in and day out at a clinic?

And IF there is any validity to this comment, I'll agree. Not being the foremost expert on abortions or time lines involving such, I can't say those are lies. What I will say is for everyone to mind their own business and all you bible thumpers should take a look in the mirror. I don't think your God had THIS is mind....

I'm on the side of pro choice. Anything to control this out of control population growth is a good idea. So many fu*king idiots in this world...

[BustedS13]

Yeah see the real deeply religious people will just introduce him to a predator..

You know.. Break his knees then drag him offshore in a boat.. 4 cans of catfood really get sharks moving.. then toss him overboard..

If he lives... well it was divine intervention cause no one else was gonna save his ass...

I thought about shedding a tear but I knew better...

Late term abortions are sick. you rip the arms and legs off with surgical salad tongs. then while it's bleeding out you crush the skull because it's to big to come out otherwise except piece by piece. Do this day in and day out at a clinic?
yes, you've proven Grendel's point. you are an enormous hypocrite.

[highwaystar22]

I don't agree with abortion at all.

*NOT MY VIEW* I can see someone rationalizing killing an abortion doctor for the greater number of lives they would save from that doctor not being able to practice. Would another doctor step right in? Most likely. Would this action, killing an abortion doc, serve as a deterrent to people who are considering this field? Yes it most likely would. Thus in the end, the person who did this most likely felt that he would be saving more lives.

Is this guy a complete nutter? Yes he is.

If you feel strongly and disagree, there are ways to protest civily without resorting to violent behavoir.


Last point and I'm off the soapbox. Ultimately people do what they do. I don't force my views on other people, I have my views as everyone does. I find late-term abortions absolutely disgusting and repugnant. If you care to, research how they are preformed, and check more then one source to corraborate what you find. It's really sick what they do to those children (or fetus. whatever you call it).


Done with the box now. I hopefully pass it off to more intelligent and civil discourse.

[98s14inaz]

Oh the irony. "thou shalt not kill" is the chant of the anti-abortion activists and then they do stupid crap like this and murder someone. lol

[98s14inaz]

http://420.thrashbarg.net/abortion_yay_omelets.jpg

That made me lol!

[highwaystar22]

Oh the irony. "thou shalt not kill" is the chant of the anti-abortion activists and then they do stupid crap like this and murder someone. lol

Before you try and turn this into an anti-christianty thread, there are more religions and denominations around the world who are vehemently anti-abortion.

[S14DB]

fJzgSDOJAfA

[98s14inaz]

Before you try and turn this into an anti-christianty thread, there are more religions and denominations around the world who are vehemently anti-abortion.

...Reformation Lutheran Church...

WTF are you talking about? This church believes in "thou shalt not kill" and one of their members killed someone in cold blood. Irony found. I'm not anti-Christianity and I never indicated that. For the record I was adopted instead of being aborted by my unwed teenage biological mother. I am definitely anti-abortion and pro adoption unless rape or incest is involved. Think before you type jackass.

[highwaystar22]

WTF are you talking about? This church believes in "thou shalt not kill" and one of their members killed someone in cold blood. Irony found. I'm not anti-Christianity and I never indicated that.

I don't believe in the story they identified the attacker as being from this church. The Doc went to this church. He served as an usher. The alleged attacker is from Kansas City and not a member of this congregation.

I didn't say you were anti-christiantly, but some people can take things out of context from your statement, and I didn't want this thread to spirial out of control going in that direction.

[98s14inaz]

meh

msglength

[FaLKoN240]

Jesus Christ. Shit's ridiculous. Why protest? They aren't aborting YOUR child. Mind your fucking business.

Let the guy live his live and do what he chose to do. Fuck.

You can't do that, this is America!

[Matej]

Personally, I believe in abortion up to 8 years of age.

[murda-c]

The guy should get the death penalty...lulz

[98s14inaz]

Personally, I believe in abortion up to 8 years of age.

Exactly, some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill them.

[spoolandslide]

The guy should get the death penalty...lulz


an eye for an eye

he should be aborted from the earth and into the atmosphere :w00t:

[Koopa Troopa]

Plan P + K just to make sure...
I prefer Plan Falcon Punch


Late term abortions are sick. you rip the arms and legs off with surgical salad tongs. then while it's bleeding out you crush the skull because it's to big to come out otherwise except piece by piece. Do this day in and day out at a clinic?

Have you seen one conducted? Speak from personal experience?





All I'm saying is you should get a smishmorshin at a smishmorshin clinic.
http://www.canmag.com/images/front/movies2007/knockedup12.jpg

[amdnivram]

It would seem choosing a profession that ends peoples' lives isn't so easy.

to each his own opinion, it can also be seen as preventing misery. It does suck that he had to go through so much crap while working to help those who needed/wanted it.

[SochBAT]

There was this story I read a few months back from the perspective of an abortion doctor.

People always protesting, hatin' on his grind.

Numerous times, protesters would be sitting in his babykillin office, getting the procedure done. Mid-way, they yell out "MURDERER!!!"

Why I am an abortion doctor (http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=283931&p=1)

[LimeLite Racing]

Personally, I believe in abortion up to 8 years of age.

LMAO!!! True Dat!!!

[Bubbles]

The men who kill these doctors will go to prison, as they should.

Abortion doctors(obviously assuming they don't get murdered) will not go to prison.


Do you see the difference?

[FaLKoN240]

The men who kill these doctors will go to prison, as they should.

Abortion doctors(obviously assuming they don't get murdered) will not go to prison.


Do you see the difference?

Why don't people get put in jail for animal abuse when they euthanize dogs or cats?

"Because it's humane"?

I'm not saying that people are of the same value as an animal, but we're talking about the sanctity of life, they're living, they're innocent, they didn't CHOOSE to be brought into this life.

Why is that considered humane to kill something that no one wants to take care of, before it is considered a nuisance.

Sounds like an abortion to me.

People have the option of bringing life into the world, and obviously I'm not trying to say that they have the RIGHT to bring an end to that life, but the option is there.

[Bubbles]

I'm not saying that people are of the same value as an animal



Sure you are.

Read it again.

[Matej]

Put a litter of puppies in a box for people to take. The healthiest prettiest ones go to a 'good home' first, and by the end of the day the unwanted ones are left behind.

Adoption dumbed down.

[TheWolf]

Have you seen one conducted? Speak from personal experience?


Late term abortions are not the normal type. It's not the "whoops your girlfriend is pregnant". Goes to the doctor. Given an injection. Goes home and bleeds for 3-4 days and passes chunks of tissue out. Then crys and most are rather emotionally scarred from it. This is the rather graphic to discuss abortion and I don't want another trip to the pinked house(mods be forgiving). I feel people should be made aware of the procedure though. The essentials are. She is given a large dose Pitocin to induce labor prematurely. This will cause painfull contractions. She's given a localized pain releaver so she doesn't endure mind wrenching pain. Baby receives none of it. Since this procedure is not designed to produce life. Certain safeguards can be removed. Fetal heart rate is not monitored as it's not desired. Since normal delivery is a multi hour ordeal. This procedure is designed like the Patriots hurry up offense. It's designed to override the bodys natural hormonal system to create a 2 minute drill of labor if you will. This large dose of pitocin, (other drugs work to the same effect but this is the most comon) create literally crushing contractions. It is not uncomon to have multiple ribs of the baby broken upon completion. Soreness and brusing of the mothers diaphram are common. Once dilated enough the baby is "delivered" but no life sustaining treatment is performed. There is a good chance none is needed as pitocin and the contractions will usually cause some level of a heart attack or thorasic/cerebral damage. Babies can't sustain high heart rates for very long before cardiac failure. This also causes their o2 stats to drop and either they drop dead from a heart attack or die from suffocating. Sometimes the delivery is assisted in a piecemeal fashion if there is not enough dilation produced by the drugs. (Aprox 10% of procedures) The Salad tongs. The mother requires observation as there's a good chance she can hemorrhage substantially. There is a slight chance that she will never be able to have kids again. I have seen one conducted on video, it's something you can't mind bleach.

Many doctors will perform abortions but will not perform selective (mother's not going to die in the next 2 minutes) late term abortions. You must be a believer that life starts when a baby exits the birth canal and starts breathing on it's own. As after about 6 months. Drugs can help the lungs fully form and it's quite common to have premies live at 2lbs.

If it were anything but a baby. Say it were puppy dogs.. kittens.. baby elephants...Then the same procedure applied above to them. It would be universally condemned.

It is true poverty when a women must decide that she must kill her unborn child so she can continue to live. -Mother Theresa

I don't think anyone here is that poor in wallet, heart or spirit.

[BustedS13]

i really hate to disagree with somebody who thinks i'm awesome and puts it in their signature.

so now this thread is about kittens in boxes.

http://www.cutecats.tv/cute_cat_poptarts.jpg

[Koopa Troopa]

*a bunch of nasty stuff


Honestly dude I see your point however if someone wants to do it then they'll do it. At least these clinics provide a safe and clean way of doing it. It's other people's decisions, who cares? The way I see it is less traffic in the morning.

[illvialuver]

It is always the religious crazies that do this kinda stuff. I find it kinda ironic that a woman kills her own son by shooting him in the back of the head at a shooting range for the belief that he is the anti Christ and then kills herself. All the while under the belief that she was following the beliefs of her religion, and than someone else kills someone at a church for their religious and moral beliefs.

People are crazy. It is sad, and I think that the woman that went to see him made there own choices and now they have one less choice, and they just killed someone.
One of the big no nos of their religion.

But he knew nut jobs were afterhim and he should have watched his back.

[BoostSlideWayz]

I personally dont see why its such a big deal... I mean... he basicly gets paid to kill human beings... just not when there fully formed.. I think he deserved what he had comin.

[sr20sean]

Personally, I believe in abortion up to 8 years of age.
people up to age 8 can have abortions or you can abort a person anytime before theyre 8? lol could be taken either way... just how the fuck does an 8 yr old get pregnant?

[Matej]

Abortion is older than religion.

I believe in abortion.

[S14DB]

Masturbation is Murder. The Sperm is alive!

[SochBAT]

"You have to swallow it. It's a live damn it! Think of the lives you will save!!!"

I'm going to start using that. lol

[illvialuver]

Masturbation is Murder. The Sperm is alive!


The best response yet. You can think about what your religious beliefs tell you to think or do but in the end , they only matter to you. So you can not uphold other people without those beliefs to the same standards as yourself.


The same people that are anti abortion, are the same people that are against same sex marriage and are against pre marital sex, and the same people that send missionaries to other countries and bribe the less fortunate and starving with food and medicine for their allegiance to their god.

[mrflip69]

http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a767/a767_thumb.gif

Try searching those pro-life sites (or even youtube) for late term abortion videos. Disturbing shit. Watched it in high school for a mock trial of roe vs. wade.

Pulling out is a myth? :( Had this argument with a friend. If you do it correctly, how could it NOT work??? At the very least, it's still got a better chance than just a good ol creampie with no pill/protection. It's not like everytime you ejaculate, the woman becomes pregnant. More reason to go anal? LOL

[TheWolf]

It's not like everytime you ejaculate, the woman becomes pregnant.

Actually there's only about 5 days a month that a woman can become pregnant. The rest of the time there's a solid plug that forms which blocks any sperm from traveling up. During these 5 days the PH changes to where it's not acidic to sperm. The rest of the month it rips their tails off in a matter of minutes. Other Things guys didn't know. Girl only ovulates one egg only once a month from one ovary. The other ovary fires one egg off the next month. They take turns. Unless she's on birth control then most likely they are chemically shut down and placed in a dormant phase.

The other way is just figure out when those five days are and then you can have sex whenever and not have kids. Just catch up on your socom on those 5 days.

[mrflip69]

+1 for the rhythm method. (no, not that rhythm)

Planned parenthood--exactly what the doc's patients needed.

What do you do for a living Wolf? *sniffs hands* hahaha

[TheWolf]

+1 for the rhythm method. (no, not that rhythm)

Planned parenthood--exactly what the doc's patients needed.

What do you do for a living Wolf? *sniffs hands* hahaha

Heh. Rhythm is like 1970's tech and not very effective. I build diesel engines for a living. Going to school for pre-med while working FT.

My wife who's a RN and I teach people how to find those days scientifically. It's called NFP. Specifically Marquette method. The method is just as effective as a condom and doesn't involve shutting down a body organ chemically. Cathlocs and Hippies like it. If you have any infertility issues, your doctor will probably prescribe something similar to what we do because it's more effective than any drug on the market at getting you pregnant when you want to have kids. (Screw like rabbits on those days if you want kids, play GT5 on those days if you don't) About 1 in 5 couples we see has some serious underlying issues with infertility. I have nothing against other people that use birth control but you can't shut down an organ for 10+ years and expect it to hop back online right away to pump out 1.73 Children then toss it back on ice. The sadder part is when the girls that come in, had some issue when she was 15 but her doc just put her on BC because it would "mask" the symptoms. Like throwing 50wt motor oil in to quiet a rod knock. So it's been just festering for 10-15 years. She gets married and it's like shazam. You thought you were healthy but your systems loaded with PCOS or something good luck fixing it now and having a kid. Sad in a way. Hard to talk to teens and early 20's kids about this as it's a bridge most kids don't cross till they get married and want to have a kid. There's very much a "won't happen to me" outlook.

[98s14inaz]

Masturbation is Murder. The Sperm is alive!

I think it said in the bible somewhere that "it is better for your seed to land on the belly of a whore..." or something like that. Works for me lol

[HyperTek]

go fire off some knuckle children lol