Code P0443, Any Nissan Techs In House? - Intense -

[Pacman]

Heres whats happening: I need to smog my car for registration, which it passed the sniffer but failed the functional portion due to DTC P0443-Evaporative Emission Canister Purge Control Valve/Solenoid Valve (Nissan code 0807).

I replaced the Solenoid and the valve which pulls HC's from the canister. I ran the checks per the FSM (check solenoid for operation in 3rd/4th gear from 25-50mph with wheels off ground, etc). I don't have a scan tool to access tests that the Consult will allow (I'm stuck using the generic portion of the Toyota scan tool at my job). I verified the vacuum is switching ports properly when commanded and holding shut when turned off.

The kicker now, my monitors are running and all eight are PASSING! The code for the evap system turns on (with no CEL, odd) but the monitors are passing. The only thing I can come up with is the EVAP canister purge volume control valve may be stuck partially open. If that were the case, it should, hypothetically pop the code P1445. The stepper motor controls how much vapors go into the intake tract, if its stuck and incorrect flow happens shouldn't it also thow a code for incorrect flow? This OBDII system isn't as smart as the systems know-a-days and its kicking my ass! Look at ths picture and it will show where I'm getting vacuum at idle. Should vacuum exsist at that location all the time? All the lines are verified in the coorect location. Any help with this?
http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo2/Pacman240/IMG_0464-1.jpg

*Sorry for the lengthy post, just wanting to get it all down*

[bouncin_180]

hey wassup man so did u figure anything out for you problem yet ... ya i still got the same problem took it to a shop and they told me to replace my ecu ... i derno but if u find out a fix let me know ... atleast all you monitors are on and working i on got 5 lol

[Howlermonkey]

When the purge is activated, I believe the ecu looks for a pressure change in the gas tank.

[Pacman]

A few weeks old, but heres what I found out. I found that the charcoal canister (behind the RR tire) is coming apart. What confuses me is, if the canister is no good, why isn't the code for the canister coming on instead of a purge code, or both? Nissan logic, stupid.

Boucin_180, go to the canister and take off the purge line (it will say it on the canister housing iteself; the larger of the two hoses). Put a white piece of paper under the hose and tap the hose. If you see tiny black flakes (i.e. charcoal) the canister is no good. I'm buying one next week to see if it solves the problem (which I'm sure it will) but need Nissan to call there tech center to see which of the two I need (car is such an early '96 they can tell which one I need off the VIN in there database). I was told either $80 or $180 (depending which one I need) is what the canister runs, I work at a dealer so I get discounts, your price will be more but its a heads up on rough costs. I'll know more in a week or so after Nissan lets me know which one they need to order and get it on and monitors completed.

I still want to know if vacuum at the purge volume control motor at idle is normal? If you haven't done anything yet, DON'T! I'll keep this updated when I find more. Good luck!

[bouncin_180]

well only thing i did was take it to 2 places ... one was my homies uncles shop and the check for any kinda leaks in the lines etc and they ended up telling me my signal is low and it must be something in my ecu malfunctioning. i thought they were BSing me so i went straight to a smog shop had them look at it 3 days later they ended up saying the same thing ... i just say the post you made i guess ill check out that charcoal canister thing when i get the time to or maybe after you make a new post lol

[Pacman]

A small update. Nissan is on a two week national back order with these canisters. I just ordered one today ($206 with the o-ring for the valve which attaches to the canister, I get a discount working for a Toyota dealer; wholesale discount). I talked them and they told me that they just sent one back about a week ago and the warehouse may still have the one available. If not, I should see one in about two weeks.

When you say you had low signal? Is that low signal of purged gases through the lines or low voltage signal at the valves? If the the first, low purge can be blocked hoses. Hoses blocked from... Charcoal!!! If is low voltage, check resistance in wiring, don't condenm the ECU, they don't go out that often.

I'll pull the thread back up if the moderators will allow it even though its getting a little old. If not, I can make a new one as this can be vital information for others.

[bouncin_180]

well i did the ecu thing just to see and it wasnt it but thas aiight ... canister and line checked out good ... went to another shop, this which my girls grandpa told me about they checked it out i told them the situation etc they said the low voltage is due probably to the solenoid itself even though everthing check out ok ... like wtf but ya ... you ever get your parts yet

[bouncin_180]

so did your problem ever get fixed ... ive checked for leaks checked the canister replaced the purge n vent valve which shouldve solved my problems but didnt and this one thing i forgot what it is but its like the boost sensor and i still got p0446 and for some reason outta the blue i now have p1441 vacuum cut valve ???

[Howlermonkey]

Filling the gas tank too far is the biggest culprit in killing charcoal cannisters.

Gas under ground is around 55 to 60 degrees.

If you fill the car completely up and only run out a quart or so (5 miles at 20mpg) and then park it in the sun, then it is easily possible for the ambient summer temperature to cause the gasoline to expand to the point of purging all air and forcing the tank's pressure in liquid form through the cannister.

This is too much for the the charcoal containment and fails it.

I routinely see lexus cars that customers have floated charcoal all the way from the rear mounted cannister to the front of the car.

[Pacman]

Filling the gas tank too far is the biggest culprit in killing charcoal cannisters.

Gas under ground is around 55 to 60 degrees.

If you fill the car completely up and only run out a quart or so (5 miles at 20mpg) and then park it in the sun, then it is easily possible for the ambient summer temperature to cause the gasoline to expand to the point of purging all air and forcing the tank's pressure in liquid form through the cannister.

This is too much for the the charcoal containment and fails it.

I routinely see lexus cars that customers have floated charcoal all the way from the rear mounted cannister to the front of the car.

I do fill the tank up, but I don't do the whole 'top off to the nearest dollar' that some do. I'm aware of what you're saying. I've seen what you're saying with the Lexus', only with Toyotas at my job. Lexus tech? Toyota Tech here.

I'm still working on it. I've done the trouble tree and verified voltage from ecu to solenoids, continuity, vacuum routing, etc. The code came back. I searched Alldata and found a TSB from 1998 relating this code and a few more. The TSB states water contamination gets through the vent and sticks the solenoids, breaks the canister and causes all sorts of problems. I'm calling Nissan tomorrow and ordering the kit. I have three weeks (7/8/'09) to get the car smogged for completing the registration process, I'm on a time crunch. If this works, I'll post the part numbers, repair procedure, pictures (if I remember my camera), and drive cycle for the monitors to run. I'll keep you updated on my findings

Over and out.

[Pacman]

Okay, I think I have it all good now, I just hope I'm not counting my chicks before they hatch...

I finally said screw it and took the car to the dealership. After a day and a half of it being in there possesion, they found that the gas cap was leaking (also noted a possibility of the pressure sensor might be failing intermittantly). They used the Subaru pressurized smoke tester on the evap system to find it (its a Subaru/Nissan dealer) since the Nissan tester showed nothing without pressure. I still don't know why it didn't set a code for a small/gross leak, it has me confused and the Nissan tech.

Once back in my possesion, I installed the water separator kit and new cap. Unfortunately a Kragen special aftermarket cap since the gas cap for the 240SX is one of a kind, no other Nissan used that style and the two close dealers didn't have one in stock. I cleared the code and forced the monitors to run by performing the drive cycle (I'll write that down in the next post, super long and crazy). I was able to get all 8 monitors to run and pass without setting the code. I ran the car today approximately 10 miles and its still all good.

The test tomorrow is the real one where I have to drive the car to work (25 miles from my house) without setting a code so I can smog it. If I can get it there and smog it I'll be golden, if not, I have 'til Wednesday to get it figured out and smogged for registation completion or the car has to get off the road (thanks California).

Anyway, I hope this helps to anyone dealing with this (mainly bouncin 180) since its been a nightmare for me. Wish me luck on getting it to work tomorrow for smog!

Parts list replacment:
-Charcoal canister (came apart)
-Purge solenoid and valve (due to possible charcoal contamination, cleaned lines)
-Water separator kit installation (per tsb regarding code)
-Fuel cap

[Pacman]

Note: Two-Trip logic.
First Trip: Drive all sections 1-9.
Second Trip: Turn ignition off. Add 4 Gallons Fuel. Start engine and drive sections 4-9.
-It is better to perform this driving test when fuel is less than 1/2.
-If fuel is greater than 1/2, more time may be required to complete the evap sections of the drive pattern. Also you may be unable to add fuel as required.
-ASCD states to use cruise control
-*see note at bottom of page when getting to step 4 on 2nd trip.


Engine coolant temperature must be below 158*F (70*C) before starting either first or second trip.

Step 1: Idle 1.5 minutes. Start engine, idle at least 1.5 minutes.

Step 2: Drive 3 minutes. 4th gear; 2000-2200 RPM; A/C switch on; use ASCD

Step 3: Drive 1.5 minutes. Drive at 55-65 mph; 5th gear; 1800-2800 RPM; A/C on,

Step 4*:Idle for 10 minutes. Cycle key off for 10 seconds. restart engine and immediately begin next drive pattern section.

Step 5: Drive 3 minutes. Cruise at 50-60MPH; 4th gear; Keep engine speed over 3000RPM; Do not decelerate for more than 3 consecutive seconds

Step 6: Drive 3 minutes. Steady state cruise at 53-58MPH. Use ASCD or hold accelerator to keep road speed as steady as possible. 5th gear; 2100-2300 RPM; A/C On

Step 7: Downshift then declerate. Select 4th gear. Downshift to 4th then completely release accelerator more than 5 seconds without braking; idle 1 minute.

Step 8: Drive 2 minutes. RPM approximately 3000. 3RD gear; accelerate to 41MPH, declerate to 34MPH, accelerate to 41MPH (note, do this the whole two minutes); A/C switch off. Do not completely release accelerator when decelerating

Step 9: Drive 2 minutes. Steady state cruise at 31-44MPH. 4th gear; A/C switch off; use ASCD; Hold accelerator pedal as steady as possible. Allow road speed to change if necessary.

First trip done. Go to second trip.

*Trip 2 Parameters: Turn ignition switch off (cool to below 158*F), add 4 gallons of fuel. Start engine and allow idle 10 minutes, then cycle ignition key off for 10 seconds. Restart and immediately begin next drive pattern section (repeating steps 4-9).

Good luck. It worked for me, got them all to run yesterday. Read all the notes and step before attempting as its a PITA. Good luck! (And yes, it took me all thrity minutes to type this, I started right after the last post!)

[bouncin_180]

haha im having out with this problem now still haha suxs to be me but ya ...

still have the p0443 and after i replaced my vent n purge i still have that damn code and i picked up another one p1441 which said something like vacuum cut valve/bypass valve ...

how much did taking it to the dealer run haha damn ... my line n charcoal canister checked out still good to go ... i was thinking maybe something to do w/ the gas cap might be something but i haven't tried or looked up anything but ya pm me lemme know wassup maybe u can help me out ...

[steve shadows]

I honor your commitment to fixing the issue but seriously these cars are such tin cans, I would have just paid for a wink wink by now.

then throw on ITBs a 100 shot of nitrous into a custom fitted air box and some race headers with side exit.

lol

[Pacman]

I honor your commitment to fixing the issue but seriously these cars are such tin cans, I would have just paid for a wink wink by now.

then throw on ITBs a 100 shot of nitrous into a custom fitted air box and some race headers with side exit.

lol

I neither have the money nor the mentality to think of my car as a tin can. Some of us aren't rich. And, when you go to school and work for a shop/dealer, you get into a groove of fixing things the correct way and not hacking as I see so much of on this site. My guy that knows wink wink smog techs says the guys he knows don't do it anymore, so, yeah.

Anyway, Nissan where I took it to is $95/hr. Charged me 1.5 hours for the diagnostic. Let me check the FSM and that TSB again to see what the code is and if that water separator applies for what code(s) you have. I'll PM you later.