Trying to get SR20 engine to run right

[Otherworldview]

Hey guys,
I’ve been trying to knock out an issue with a 91 240 w/ SR20 that I just picked up and I just can't seem to get it right. The previous owner did a shit job with the engine not only with maintenance, but with install as well. Here’s what I’m looking at…
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b285/Otherworldview/Cars/1991%20Nissan%20240sx/engine%20temp/Engine9.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b285/Otherworldview/Cars/1991%20Nissan%20240sx/engine%20temp/Engine11.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b285/Otherworldview/Cars/1991%20Nissan%20240sx/engine%20temp/Engine2.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b285/Otherworldview/Cars/1991%20Nissan%20240sx/engine%20temp/Engine3.jpg

As you can see, it looks like ass. The car is running on stock injectors, stock MAF, supposedly has a Walbro fuel pump, FPR, and a huge top mount T3/T4 w/ external wastegate. What’s happening right now is that it’s not boosting or even running right over 3500. Right now the vacuum is from the top and bottom of the wastegate to a T which then goes to one of the ports on the intake manifold (other port is to the FPR). Is this correct? I’m not trying to do heavy boost, I just want to get it at least functioning before I tear it apart to rebuild it.
For the record though, I’ve got 740cc injectors, rom tuned ECU, and a z32 MAF waiting to be put on once things get ironed out.

[Sileighty_85]

damn that some ghetto piping, check MAF, and turbo for shaft play

you really need install those injectors, ECU and MAF

If you still have the Stock Fuel electrontics, check your ECU for Codes

[Otherworldview]

damn that some ghetto piping, check MAF, and turbo for shaft play

you really need install those injectors, ECU and MAF

If you still have the Stock Fuel electrontics, check your ECU for Codes

Yeah, the piping is rusted as hell. When I first got it I did notice a little bit of play with the turbo, but when I checked it again when it was cold it was gone. Couldn't tell if it was because of me wearing gloves the first time or what. I've got 3 of the 4 injectors atm with one at Deatschwerks for flow testing.

I would think though that those would be considered power adders for higher boost? I'm just trying to get the thing to at least boost stock so I know it's set up right.

[djcobra]

yikes.... might wanna get a new brake reservoir while your at it!

Steve.

[Sileighty_85]

yikes.... might wanna get a new brake reservoir while your at it!

Steve.

Oh shit! Yeah def

Get a turbo blanket and replace that thing. Def not safe at all

[Otherworldview]

Oh shit! Yeah def

Get a turbo blanket and replace that thing. Def not safe at all

Yeah, the whole thing is beat. That cylinder being half melted (still functional though), and a Gatorade bottle for a coolant overflow. This is going to sound bad on my part, but these are things I'm not too concerned with because I'm going to be selling the rolling chassy once I pull the engine. I just bought the car for the engine and the parts it came with.

[Otherworldview]

Alright, found this vacuum setup on NICO, but it still didn't help any:
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/images/wstgate.gif

Is it because I don't have an actual controller on it that it's not working or am I missing something else?

Thanks

[Otherworldview]

Alright, trying to wire in the z32 MAF I got and the color for the wiring doesn't seem to match the guides I've found online. I have two sets of wires: one set is a black with a silver ring on it and a thicker white. The other set is a black and another white (but smaller gauge then the other). The second set is in it's own wrapping that's shielded from the other set.
Could I get a hand real quick so when I get back from work I can solder this up?
Thanks

[Sileighty_85]

Not sure if if your Z32 MAF is the same as Mine, I've seen a few different style's depending on the Car you took the MAF off of.

Very simple I think I took mine off of a J30 But the wires seem to matchZ32 Plug SR Wires

Black w/ White stripe = Black with w/ Whit stripe
White = White
Solid Black and and Solid Orange = Black

Double check you wires before starting with a Mulitmeter because if wired wrong you will fry the ECU.

White wire should have 0-5 Volts (B)
Orange and Black Wire = Grounds (C&D)
Black w/ White Stripe = 12 Volts (E)

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/Neil_85/Misc/DSCN0629.jpg

Dont mind mine, I spliced my Z32 with my Stock SR plug so if my Z32 MAF went out I can up the stock one back on easily
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/Neil_85/Misc/DSCN0627.jpg

[Otherworldview]

Not sure if if your Z32 MAF is the same as Mine, I've seen a few different style's depending on the Car you took the MAF off of.

Very simple I think I took mine off of a J30 But the wires seem to matchZ32 Plug SR Wires

Black w/ White stripe = Black with w/ Whit stripe
White = White
Solid Black and and Solid Orange = Black

Double check you wires before starting with a Mulitmeter because if wired wrong you will fry the ECU.

White wire should have 0-5 Volts (B)
Orange and Black Wire = Grounds (C&D)
Black w/ White Stripe = 12 Volts (E)

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/Neil_85/Misc/DSCN0629.jpg

Dont mind mine, I spliced my Z32 with my Stock SR plug so if my Z32 MAF went out I can up the stock one back on easily
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/Neil_85/Misc/DSCN0627.jpg
Yeah, yours is different. Here's mine:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b285/Otherworldview/Cars/1991%20Nissan%20240sx/Parts/mafwire.jpg

It goes Big white, Black, Black w/ white ring, white

[Sileighty_85]

Go off the B,C,D,E wires then

[Sileighty_85]

Your plug is upside down

Yours appears to be

Big White wire = 12 Volt (E)
Two Middle Black Wires = Grounds (C&D)
Small Whire wire = 0-5 Volts (B)

Like I said, before applying power Check the wires with a multimeter

[Otherworldview]

First off, big thanks for Sileighty_85. I was able to get the MAF wired in. Now however, I've come into another problem. It's running really rich. I can't accelerate at all without it almost bogging out then backfires when I let off. Here's what I did:
z32 MAF
NGK BKR7EIX-11 (gapped to .03)
740cc injectors
ECU Rom tuned for 740cc injectors, t3/t4 turbo, z32 maf, and 264/264 cams

I adjusted the FPR down to 40PSI at idle. In order to get the thing to start, I had to crank the CAS to be fully clockwise. Once it warmed up I was able to drop it down to fully counter clockwise and it idled at about 800rpm. The only thing I could think of is that I'm not running the 264s, but I wouldn't think that would cause it to run that rich. Anything else I could look at?

Thanks everyone

[Sileighty_85]

Check for Vacuum leaks
plugs need to be gapped at .28 -.30

Cams could be an issuse, but make sure that your getting 12 Volts on the (E) Wire

[Otherworldview]

Sorry Sileighty_85 I still haven't picked up a multi meter just yet. I'll get to it soon. Did check vacuum on the plenum and looks good. Here's a video (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ASPZXL7E) of it running.

Edit:
Just went out with a multimeter and found I'm only getting 1-2 volts at idle on both E & B. I know when I first went to wire it up, the harness was already chopped and had new lines crimped on. Went ahead and cut out the crimps and just twisted them together with some vinyl and still no joy. Following your pictures and write up I came up with:
Harness ------------> Plug
White --------------> White (B)
Black & Black w ring -> Black (C&D)
Big White -----------> Black w/ stripe (E)

I'll go back out tomorrow and double check the plug gapping. I forgot about that till now.

Edit x2:
Plugs are gapped to .030. They were all quite carbon fouled from running rich. Cleaned them off with a shop rag before putting them back.

[Otherworldview]

Sprayed down the MAF with MAF cleaner and got a different multimeter. Got up to 30v on E and 2~3v on B. Still studders so I'm guessing it is the lack of cams that are doing it since that's the only variable left?

[toointoxicated62]

30volts? how accurate is your multi meter? :0

[Otherworldview]

30volts? how accurate is your multi meter? :0

Apparently not very. It is a $3 digital from Harbor Freight...

[Otherworldview]

Yeah... don't think the MAF is properly working. I can't rev over 2500 without it really breaking up.
Anyone have one I could borrow for 10min? lol

Went and double checked my work. Found I had the multi set to vAC not vDC :newbie:. Got 12v on E and 1v on B with the car just set to 'On'. Still doesn't explain WTH it's problem is.

[Otherworldview]

Went out again and pulled codes. Got 11 and 12 for CAS and MAF. For the CAS we pulled the valve cover, put the cams at 10 and 2 and put the CAS in the center of it's adjusting area. Now it won't start and is pulling Code 55.

[Sileighty_85]

needs to be set at more of a 9 and 3

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/Neil_85/180SX/PIC-0399.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/Neil_85/180SX/PIC-0398.jpg

[aNskY]

you sure you got the timing right? it's a little more complicated than 10 and 2. did you count the links?

[Otherworldview]

Major update:
Pulled valve cover again here's what I've got (9 links between marks):
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b285/Otherworldview/Cars/1991%20Nissan%20240sx/cams001.jpg

That's with the crank at the second mark from the left:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b285/Otherworldview/Cars/1991%20Nissan%20240sx/cams002.jpg

Well, pulled the CAS and reset the marks. Slapped it all together and fired it up on the first crank. Great! Got it running again, but still wouldn't go over 3500rpm... Having enough of that I went back and double checked the pin out to find out where the MAF went. Sure enough after going back the line for the MAF was cut. Not just cut, but a good 3" chunk of wire missing. Spliced in a temporary wire and once again fired it up....

Whelp, that did thte trick. She now runs all the way up to 7500rpm. The only problem I can identify right now is at 1500rpm it hesitates and stumbles. Once I get to 2k+ it pulls fine. Unknown boost right now which is my next question; vacuum. I still can't figure out where the compressor fitting goes? Should I "T" it onto the line from the intake to the wastegate?

Almost done guys! Getting excited.:bite:

[aNskY]

you were 180 off on the CAS.. good news..

you need to use shielded wires for the maf. that COULD be your 1500rpm issue, but could very well be a leak too.


The wastegate getting its signal from the IM is fine, however you are sacrificing a bit of response (and engine bay cleanliness) by not just tapping your compressor housing. try to use as FEW T's as possible.

[Otherworldview]

you were 180 off on the CAS.. good news..

you need to use shielded wires for the maf. that COULD be your 1500rpm issue, but could very well be a leak too.


The wastegate getting its signal from the IM is fine, however you are sacrificing a bit of response (and engine bay cleanliness) by not just tapping your compressor housing. try to use as FEW T's as possible.

So what you're saying is to switch from the IM to the compressor housing? What should I use the IM for? Gauge and BOV?

Yeah, it looks like a mess, but it's ok, it's temporary till I do the swap and everything.

[landins13]

use the IM for gauge and bov, the large vac line in on the manifold near the firewall should go to your brakemaster then the bov. your wastegate should be directly connected to your compressor housing.

[aNskY]

use the IM for gauge and bov, the large vac line in on the manifold near the firewall should go to your brakemaster then the bov. your wastegate should be directly connected to your compressor housing.


dont T your brake booster line and bov. bov gets one line (no t) from the larger nipple on the TB. brake booster gets one line (no t) from the bottom rear of the IM. you can T your guage and fpr from the smaller nipple on the TB, and tap the compressor for WG signal. any more and you should be running a vacuum plenum or tapping your IM.

[Otherworldview]

Just got back from leave and I dunno what happened during the 3 days I was gone, but it's back to it's old BS.
Went out and changed up my vacuum lines like thus:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b285/Otherworldview/Cars/1991%20Nissan%20240sx/engine%20temp/Proposedvacuumdiagramv2.jpg

Throttle body has only one nipple on it (to charcoal canister correct?) and that's currently capped off. The other two on the IM go to the FPR and BOV. Currently don't have a boost gauge or controller, but mocked them up anyways.

Get in the car, start it up and it idles at 1500, figure it's alright, it's just warming up. Let it warm up a little and pull off. The whole thing just bucks like crazy through all RPMs. If I'm about 1500 with with little throttle it's alright, but if I give it any more it just starts choking again.

Gimped it back to my parking spot and checked the codes. Gave me 55. I tear back into the wiring harness and double check to make sure the MAF wiring we did last Wednesday still held and it was there. Figured maybe it was the plugs; so pulled them and all were dry fouled (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b285/Otherworldview/Cars/1991%20Nissan%20240sx/engine%20temp/CarbonSpark.jpg) (running rich?). I haven't gone back to start it up after wiping down the plugs with a shop towel because I don't think that's exactly what the problem is.

Edit:
Pulled the coolant temp sensor because I read it will cause the car to run rich. I think it's in pretty condition:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b285/Otherworldview/Cars/1991%20Nissan%20240sx/engine%20temp/WaterTempSensor.jpg
Another thing I was considering were the o-rings on the injectors. They looked good and I put some of the grease deatschwerks gave me, but I'm considering anything really at this point. Would it also be because I'm using a red top 62 ECU cause issues? It has a topsecret daughter board.

[Otherworldview]

Curious if leaking coolant would also cause it to run bad? I know the U shaped hose on the back of the block near the turbo/brake cylinder hisses every time I turn the car off from running after a while.

[Sileighty_85]

you need to check the resistance on the coolant temp sensor (read FSM) not the physical appearance of it.

the leak will cause aiir bubbles in the system eventually, so you need to fix it before it starts to over heats

is the Daughter board you are using set up for use with the deatscherks? every brand injector has a different lag time.

[storey]

the ecu he is using was my ecu. i was using nismo injectors.

[Sileighty_85]

well he need to either use Nismo's or rechip or whatever you do to the ECU for using deatscherks.

Nismos probably have a differnt lag time compared to the deatscherks.

[Otherworldview]

Well that sucks if I have to do that... totally defeated the purpose, lol. Found NISMO's lag time here (http://www.rhdjapan.com/jdm-low/NISMO-740CC-Fuel-Injectors-SR20DET-Silvia-180SX-JDM-17694) (0.71msec, 11.3 ohms), Deatschwerks can't find.

Went out today though to go get a 92 Nissan Sentra SE-R CTS only to find that I have an oval plug and it's a rectangle. Went back and just put it in and filled the radiator with water and let it run to get some bubbles out.

Thunderstorm

Came back out to try replaicing the two 90* vacuum fittings on the back of the intake manifold (Brake booster & PCV lines), came back, but ended up getting the wrong size threads (fail). Put it all back together and fire it up. Took 3 times for it to start and stay running. Everytime I took my foot off the clutch it would run for a couple of seconds then just put out. When it finally held it was idling at 1500rpm. Went and checked to see if it needed more water and it was still pretty full.
Figured I would start disconnecting things and see what happens:
-Pulled the o2 sensor and nothing changed. The tip is also black just like the sparkplugs were.
-Pulled the TPS and while I was previously only able to rev up to 2500 in neutral, I was able to go all the way to 6000 (I'm sure I could go higher, but stopped).
Tried to take it around the parking lot, but still ran into the same problem from earlier; hesitation, studdering and lack of response. I'll pull it tomorrow and see what resistance readings I get for it (ref (http://zilvia.net/f/engine-tech/239067-take-look-my-tps-resistance-reading.html)).

Thoughts? Thanks again Sileighty_85, aNskY, and Storey.

[aNskY]

make sure you have the proper injectors for your tune before you start messing with other shit!!

[Otherworldview]

/sigh, very well. I never even considered lag time. Then again, I am a newbie...

I'll let this thread die out in the mean time since I can't do much till I get new injectors. I'll make a FS thread tomorrow after I pull them. Tomei / Nismo are the same correct? Thought I read that somewhere.

Thanks again

[Otherworldview]

Pulled the injectors and put them up in the marketplace (http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/258518-fs-ft-deatschwerks-740cc-sidefeed-injectors.html).
Asking $300 + paypay fee or if you're cool enough to trade for the Nismo/Tomei ones that'd be much helpful.

[Otherworldview]

I emailed Scott over at Enthalpy seeing about if it'd be easier to change the tune for the Deatschwerks and he told me that "Those injectors are similar enough that if everything else is the same you should be fine".
So... yeah...:hsdance:

[Otherworldview]

Went out and tested the TPS using the following info:


TPS Voltage Adjustment
Imagine that this picture is what the back of your TPS wiring harness looks like as it's plugged into the TPS:
-----
| A |
--------
| B | |
--------
| C |
-----
What you need to do is get a DVM and hook the positive lead through the back of the harness into "B" and hook the negative lead through the back of the harness into "A". It's easiest if you straighten a couple of paper clips (I used my wife's sewing needles...she nearly killed me) and shove them into the openings and hook onto 'em with alligator clips, but *DON'T* let them touch. Turn the ignition on (don't start the car) and check the voltage between "A" (-) and "B" (+). It should be between 0.45 and 0.55V. If it's not, you'll need to loosen (but not remove) the two screws or bolts that hold the TPS to the throttle body. Rotate the TPS until you get the proper voltage and tighten the screws, making sure it doesn't go out of adjustment when you tighten it down. As a final check, open the throttle all of the way. You should read around 4V. If so, great! If not, uh...my condolences.


Adjusted it to .5vdc and at WOT I got 4.23vdc.

I still haven't put the injectors back in yet. I'm going to order new o-rings and coolant temp sensor. Debating on o2 sensor... I'm running out of things to check :/