Wierd clicking noise from engine bay - pinging?

[DaPCWiz]

Okay so here is my setup:
stock ka,
z32 maf,
nismo 555cc injectors,
jwt tune,
t25 at stock boost,
smic (altho that shouldn't matter at low rpm / idle....)
full synthetic 5w-30,
93 octane.

So i started getting a clicking that goes up and down with the revs and goes away over 3k rpm. It only lasts 2-3 minutes after i start the car then completely goes away. Once it goes away, no matter how much I putter around or beat on it - the noise is completely gone with no trace of it coming back.

I was thinking its pinging... but now I'm not sure :-\ It doesn't seem much related to water temp - it just always happens when I start the car. I don't have an oil temp gauge so I don't know how it relates to that.

I first checked the timing, it was like at 25 degrees. I backed it off to 20 (stock). Seemed to make the problem alot better, but then again its hard to tell because it goes away very quickly.

Then I changed the gap on the plugs from .026 to .031. I think it helped a little.

I had NGK heat range 6 plugs (BKR6E) so then i swapped them out for heat range 7 (BKR7E) - gapped to .030. I still have the issue but its kinda less now.

Sounds like its coming from the back area of the motor exhaust side. Not sure if its from the motor or turbo? The major difference I seem to notice after doing the above changes - before it was alot and regular. Now its super short and kinda irregular. If I rev slowly it doesn't even do it... only if I give it a quick rev from 1k - 2.5k-ish

It also feels like I lost a lot of power after backing off the timing. The motor has been turbo less than 1000 miles.

[S14DB]

Get an oil pressure gauge.

[DaPCWiz]

Get an oil pressure gauge.

I do have an oil pressure gauge. Oil level is good.... oil pressure @ startup is ~60psi... and then eventually settles at ~20psi.

After its idling at 20 psi, it varies up and down with rpm. Is that normal?

I haven't checked oil pressure vs. clicking noise... I will do that next time i start the car.

[S14DB]

That sounds good for warm idle. Rev it up to 3000rpm when warm and get a reading. This is at the stock oil pressure switch location?

[DaPCWiz]

Its at a sandwich plate @ the oil filter - that's also where the oil feed for the turbo is. I will check oil pressure at 3k later today.

[rc1honda]

I was with S14 on the oil press cuz it sounds like it could be a lifter that needs bleeding. when the rpms goes up it goes away cuz the the lifter is getting a high pressure oil source. But now that the oil press is fine i was thinking it could be spark knock. Do you have wideband? I know it should be fine at idle and low rpms but you never know, it could be running lean in those low rpms ranges to save fuel and get good gas economym, then when the boost hits it leans out and knocks and then the tune kicks in and richens it up.

[DaPCWiz]

I was with S14 on the oil press cuz it sounds like it could be a lifter that needs bleeding. when the rpms goes up it goes away cuz the the lifter is getting a high pressure oil source. But now that the oil press is fine i was thinking it could be spark knock. Do you have wideband? I know it should be fine at idle and low rpms but you never know, it could be running lean in those low rpms ranges to save fuel and get good gas economym, then when the boost hits it leans out and knocks and then the tune kicks in and richens it up.

my knock sensor is bad (I have a check engine light for it)... I have ordered a new one... and it will go in as soon as it comes in.

afr @ idle is like 17-17.5 when warming up, ad 15.5-16 when warm (occasionally it goes up to 14.5 after a good run, but then it settles back down to 15.5-ish)
afr @ cruise is ~14.4
afr @ wot is ~11.4

I'm running an innovate lc-1 wideband

maybe the new knock sensor will fix it?

How do you bleed a lifter? lol. I'm a nub when it comes to motor internals.... :(

also! when changing the plugs I noticed a tiny bit of oil on the cylinder #1 spark plug threads... but I think that's just the inner part of the valve cover gasket maybe needs to be replaced.

[DaPCWiz]

Okay update:

Took the car out for a spin. Turned it on. clicking noise. Gave it a quick rev... no more clicking at idle, but clicks alot when I rev it. OIl pressure 62-63 psi.

Wait a minute or so... oil pressure drops to ~50 psi. Give it a rev... still hear clicking but less when I rev it.

Wait another minute or so... oil pressure drops to 41 psi. Water temp is 140 *F. Rev it all day long, no more clicking.

Oil pressure is ~60 psi at 3000 rpm once its warmed up.

[S14DB]

So, It's a clicking sound you can hear in the cabin not a ringing bell sound?

How many miles on the motor? Timing chain service done?

[DaPCWiz]

So, It's a clicking sound you can hear in the cabin not a ringing bell sound?

How many miles on the motor? Timing chain service done?

I did a timing chain service ~150k. Its not timing chain rattle. I know 100% what timing chain rattle sounds like. (I've heard it on like 10-15 KAs before, lol) I do have some timing chain noise... but this isn't it. Motor has 171k (yes I know thats mad high... but I have another block that will go in if this one decides to go)

edit: I also had my friend drive the car last night. Sitting in the driver's seat u can hear it clearly... its not as obvious from the passenger seat. WIth the hood popped and playing with the throttlebody its pretty easy to hear.

[DaPCWiz]

Bah. I tried to get the noise on camera. I turn on the car w/ the camera on... literally makes the noise for like 5 seconds and then stops on its own. The camera doesn't even pick up the noise. I try to rev it... no noise its perfect. So then I turn off the camera go to drive it.... guess what... it makes the noise again. I pull over, turn the camera on and go... guess what.... no noise. meh. I'll try again after I let it sit overnight and completely cool off I guess...:bash:

100% confirmed on the exhaust side.... wouldn't be surprised if it was the turbo. When I put a stethoscope to the turbo, I hear a mild rattling noise. I checked the turbo before I put it on and it had virtually no shaft play.... VERY slight.

[DaPCWiz]

okay - you can't hear it as clearly in the video as in real life... but if you listen for it everytime I push the throttle you can hear it. Had to borrow my friend's camera and this is the best I could get.

http://vimeo.com/4567036

it goes away once I start driving.

Also - I took out the car today, and idk... it jsut didn't seem right. I'll be driving and the power will kind of cut in and out randomly while I'm cruising... sometimes when I try to get on it... there is a "lag" in power where it does nothing... not even revs up, and then all of a sudden it goes.

this sucks :(

clicking doesn't seem to be related to oil pressure either... I was getting it after the car warmed up to 20-30 psi. It goes away once I start driving for a minute or give it a number of good revs.

[DaPCWiz]

update: took it to a local shop. apparently its a very small exhaust leak between the manifold and motor that seals up once the metal in the manifold heats up and expands...

looks like imma have to pull the manifold and reseal it.

[S14DB]

Sounds like an exhaust leak.

[rc1honda]

Yeah i still wonder what the clicking is though? Bleending the lifters is easy but it a pain to get to them. You have to take apart the head almost.

Remove valve cover
Remove cam bolts and cams
Make sure timing chian doesn't fall
Take a narrow cup or pop bottle.
Remove lifters one by one and submerge in oil (try to keep the lifter as staight up as possible)
The take a small allen key put it in the top and proceed to jerk the lifters off untill all the air is out.
Key part: make sure you do not tip the lifter over as you reinstall it.

[DaPCWiz]

Yeah i still wonder what the clicking is though? Bleending the lifters is easy but it a pain to get to them. You have to take apart the head almost.

Remove valve cover
Remove cam bolts and cams
Make sure timing chian doesn't fall
Take a narrow cup or pop bottle.
Remove lifters one by one and submerge in oil (try to keep the lifter as staight up as possible)
The take a small allen key put it in the top and proceed to jerk the lifters off untill all the air is out.
Key part: make sure you do not tip the lifter over as you reinstall it.

"clicking" is exhaust gas leaking out from tiny hole in the sealant between the manifold and motor. step 1: I'll check that all the bolts are tight, see if that fixes it... if not imma pull everthing and reinstall. Its just a super small leak, so it sounds like a clicking instead of a louder exhaust noise... its so small in fact, that when the manifold heats up, it seals up the gap.

[juniorjimenez]

so what was the solution to the problem i have the same situation happen to me and im still pulling my hair on this let me know thanks

[DaPCWiz]

Sorry i should have posted earlier. I took it to a local shop that specializes in turbo cars. Dude looked it it for 5 minutes and was like exhaust leak. Checked it, small leak between downpipe and elbow. When the metal heats up, the leak goes away. Its happening cuz my downpipe hits the chassis a bit and stresses the joint. Im gonna get the pipe extended slightly. I pulled the whole turbo setup to find no leak at the manifold. What a pita lol.

[JDM671]

hahaha both of our cars sounds the same. I have a leak on the manifold and cat. to lazy to fix it. lol