ka24 build list help (parts)

[prokronic36]

howzit every1....

i've done my searches and whatnot, so any help you guys can give regarding the parts and/or setup would be greatly appreciated....

parts i have

greddy td06 kit

z32 maf

greddy arinix for z32

2.5 dp (megan)

3" tp and 3" jic xhaust

jwt ecu

safc 2

cometic hg

parts i need and question items

full bottom end kit... i'm assuming all of them are basically the same.. probably going cp pistons, eagle rods, clevite bearing, and arp studs..

timing chain kit i'm assuming oem is the way to go.

oil pump should i change just to be sure?

injectors.... should i use top feed injectors for the greddy rail, or should i jsut get 720cc sidefeeds for the stock rail? if top feed, what the hell do i buy? high impedance jdm type?

fuel pump probably going w/ a walboro... no problems there right?

intercooler probably going w/ the greddy one for the ka-t, for fitment purposes.... plus i don't want to move my batt... i don't know any good fab guys...

cams/ headwork my uncle is doing a free hand port and polish :)... i figuring i should change out the valve train components due to the age of the car.. 140k... should i go stock or w/ brian crower? and should i do s13 cams or go stage 2 bc?


can't think of anything else for now... looking to get a 350whp daily driver that won't blow up. any recommendations ? thanks for the time. pz.


ps. what do i do about the boost creep issue? if i boost 14psi +, will it still creep? i'm assuming so. i know there's the bigger flapper method and the external gate method... what should i do??? etd manifold is 600 bux almost.... and could probably ghetto rig a jgs for about 450 or so... and i don't know if i would trust anyone locally for doing the bigger flapper method... help on this issue would be super greatly appreciated...

[BigVinnie]

You should change the oil pump to a high volume one.
using the (z32) N62, or E60, or N60 MAF will allow you to make peak power into the 6500-7000RPM range. The stock oil pump usually starves the engine of oil usually around 5800RPM.
It would be wise to upgrade to a PAECO, or TOGA oil pump.

As far as fuel pumps circuit sports offers a much better fuel pump than the walbro for about the same price. You can find this pump at PDM racing. You wil also need a risng rate fuel pressure regulator.

With TD06 turbo you wouldn't need anything higher than 550cc injectors side feed with stock rail, or 550 top feed using project silvia rail or aem fuel rail.

With a TD06 you could also get by just using a E60 MAF (RB series maf) rather than the N62.

Shooting for 350WHP you would probably want to get cams that will still keep you streetable with a nice idle. Stock cams wont make 350 whp. You would probably want to get cams from PDM racing stage 2, brian crower stage 2, or paeco stage 2.

Boost controller and turbo timer are a must.

[prokronic36]

greddy kit comes w/ a top feed fuel rail....

and i already have the n62 maf...

i'm stuck on this island so used parts are kinda hard to come by.

[BigVinnie]

greddy kit comes w/ a top feed fuel rail....

Then go with 550cc top feeds.

[prokronic36]

dont' top feeds top out @ 300 or so? isn't it better to go bigger and get the tune donw?

[Katsumbhong]

dont' top feeds top out @ 300 or so? isn't it better to go bigger and get the tune donw?

Whoever you are getting your information about that from doesn't know what he's talking about

Research fuel systems and the design of top feed and side feed.

[prokronic36]

i've been using the fuel calculators and putting the % around 85 or so...

550cc seems to top out @ 300 right?

[umsports]

You DO NOT need a "high flow" oil pump. I still maintain a factory oil pump and have for the past 4 yrs from 350whp to 530whp. There isn't much of a reason to build your head unless you plan on revving beyond 7700rpms.. At that point you'd want dual valve springs, retainers, seats, etc but up until ~7700-7800 you'll be more than fine.

Also stock cams will make 350whp.. Good lord the misinformation posted about KA's on zilvia is mind boggling. I was still running factory cams up until 400whp before I switched over. I do recommend it but I do not recommend BC cams. If anything go Crower (yes there is a difference and I can prove it if need be) but I most prefer Kelford Cams after doing a cam test using their products to say I've been swayed is an understatement.

[umsports]

You should change the oil pump to a high volume one.
using the (z32) N62, or E60, or N60 MAF will allow you to make peak power into the 6500-7000RPM range. The stock oil pump usually starves the engine of oil usually around 5800RPM.
It would be wise to upgrade to a PAECO, or TOGA oil pump.

Stop it!

As far as fuel pumps circuit sports offers a much better fuel pump than the walbro for about the same price. You can find this pump at PDM racing. You wil also need a risng rate fuel pressure regulator.

Stop it!

With TD06 turbo you wouldn't need anything higher than 550cc injectors side feed with stock rail, or 550 top feed using project silvia rail or aem fuel rail.

With a TD06 you could also get by just using a E60 MAF (RB series maf) rather than the N62.

Shooting for 350WHP you would probably want to get cams that will still keep you streetable with a nice idle. Stock cams wont make 350 whp. You would probably want to get cams from PDM racing stage 2, brian crower stage 2, or paeco stage 2.

Stop it!

Boost controller and turbo timer are a must.

Please go build a few high HP KA's before saying stupid things like this. The cams will be fine. CS fuel pump is no better than a walbro (probably is a walbro) and factory cams will be fine. What are they going to break or something at a certain level? NO they will not. Now will you lose top end from not switching? Yes! But do not say they won't make 350whp. I can go to ka-t.org and post dozens of different dyno threads that say otherwise.

Please do more research before posting things like this.

Thanks!

[prokronic36]

howz the powerband on the kelford cams?

thx for the good info...

and i was under the assumption that td06 20g's are good till 450 or so...

dont' you need up to 800cc injectors for that?

[BigVinnie]

The cams will be fine. CS fuel pump is no better than a walbro (probably is a walbro) and factory cams will be fine. What are they going to break or something at a certain level? NO they will not. Now will you lose top end from not switching? Yes! But do not say they won't make 350whp. I can go to ka-t.org and post dozens of different dyno threads that say otherwise.

Thanks!

I have done my research.
With the A/R that a TD06 makes that means an extended rev range wouldbe needed if using the stock cams .

An e60 maf is just sutable as much as the N62MAf would be. Tuning with the E60 or N60 is better for idle. Idle will tend to be more rough with the N62.
The MAF is what changes you K value this is what will extend rev range, and the stock cams will run out of power in the high end with the range that any of these mafs have to offer.

Stock cams drop in power early. Stage 2 have an extended rev range.

You could make 350whp with stock cams. I just disagree that it could be done effeciently.

As far as oil pump I disagree with you as well. I rev the piss out of my ka for a few minutes with the e fans blazing, and am typically running way to hot. Stock oil pump is not effecient enough if you drift and stay in redline for awhile. Regardless if you only make 200whp or even 400whp.

As far as the circuit sports fuel pump being better than the walbro, PDM is making that claim.

Don't be an ass.

thanks

[BigVinnie]

[QUOTE=umsports;2566499] There isn't much of a reason to build your head unless you plan on revving beyond 7700rpms.. At that point you'd want dual valve springs, retainers, seats, etc but up until ~7700-7800 you'll be more than fine.

[\QUOTE]

Actually valve float starts as early as 7500RPM, doesn't mean the valve train won't work it just won't be as effecient. Stock redline is at 7200RPM for a reason.

[BigVinnie]

i've been using the fuel calculators and putting the % around 85 or so...

550cc seems to top out @ 300 right?

Several things have to be taken into account.
Actual crank HP
Number of injectors
Brake specific fuel consumption
maximum duty cycle (not to exceed 80%)
fuel rail fuel pressure (not to exceed 100psig)


So lets plug in the calculations.

HP at the flywheel about: 390 HP
Number of injectors: 4
brake specific fuel consumption: .60
Maximum injector duty cycle: 80%
Maximum fuel pressure: 85 PSIG


plug it into the calculator and you get.....
52.31LB.s per hour at exactly 550cc

There are fuel pressure regulators that will max at 100 PSI so you could calculate that number to as high as 100 PSI if you wanted to, which would lower injector cc to duty cycle.

[prokronic36]

you really want to run 85 psi in the fuel line???

[BigVinnie]

you really want to run 85 psi in the fuel line???


I don't know what that greddy fuel rail is rated at but most High Volume aluminum top feed fuel rails handle upto 100PSI.

[umsports]

[QUOTE=umsports;2566499] There isn't much of a reason to build your head unless you plan on revving beyond 7700rpms.. At that point you'd want dual valve springs, retainers, seats, etc but up until ~7700-7800 you'll be more than fine.

[\QUOTE]

Actually valve float starts as early as 7500RPM, doesn't mean the valve train won't work it just won't be as effecient. Stock redline is at 7200RPM for a reason.

Really? My head seems to tell me differently. Also stock redline is not 7200rpms. Maybe in a tuned ECU in which someone has changed the redline point.

Yes, you can make 350whp efficiently on stock cams. Hell on my old 57 trim .58 a/r setup I made 330whp @ 13lbs (mustang dyno) and 414/364 @ 20lbs (mustang dyno) and did so on OEM cams. I consider that to be extremely efficient considering the turbo on the small backside.

Again my main point is that you're only reposting what you've read, not what you've done. This is the main problem with forums is that people post things as fact (as you have) and then others repost that and the vicious cycle continues. I apologize for being an ass but this forum is notorious for this and its sad because many people on zilvia don't give KA's a chance because of all the incorrect information posted. Not sure about the CS fuel pump but a hardwired walbro is good for 550whp.

[umsports]

I have done my research.

As far as oil pump I disagree with you as well. I rev the piss out of my ka for a few minutes with the e fans blazing, and am typically running way to hot.

Then you have a water pump problem. That has absolutely nothing to do with the oil pump. Proving my point once more.

Stock oil pump is not effecient enough if you drift and stay in redline for awhile. Regardless if you only make 200whp or even 400whp.

Yes, it is efficient enough!

As far as the circuit sports fuel pump being better than the walbro, PDM is making that claim.

Let that be their claim, not yours unless you've tested it to prove otherwise


Don't be an ass.

Sorry, just setting the record straight

thanks

What do the electric fans have to do with the oil pump? That's water temp not oil temps! Since when does it starve at 5700rpms?? Again you're describing water temp problems. If you had an oil temp gauge on your car you'd see this wasn't the case.

[BigVinnie]

What do the electric fans have to do with the oil pump? That's water temp not oil temps! Since when does it starve at 5700rpms?? Again you're describing water temp problems. If you had an oil temp gauge on your car you'd see this wasn't the case.

Engine temprature in general.
When I check the oil pressure it's low and the water temp gauge starts to go up the longer I drive. I think it's a mix of both oil sarvation and coolant temprature.

I've googled ka24de and e oil pressure pump problems and seem to run across threads that the KA24e and de although using different pumps both have the same problems maintaining reliable and constant oil pressure in the higher RPM ranges. Even installing a turbo on these engines with oil return can reduce engine oil pressure and cause over heating.

[prokronic36]

if you haven't built it why post in the thread? ....

meen....

[BigVinnie]

if you haven't built it why post in the thread? ....

meen....


I've built KAs. I've helped build turbo set ups. I'm just not good at ecu tuning, but excellent with an SAFC. I'm even about to do the review on the TOGA oil pump I ordered, and do a comparison between the stock oil pump.

[umsports]

Engine temprature in general.
When I check the oil pressure it's low and the water temp gauge starts to go up the longer I drive. I think it's a mix of both oil sarvation and coolant temprature.

It really isn't though. You're describing water temp issues. The 2 are very different so go fix the water temp problem on your car before you try to blame it on the oil pump. Your oil pump may be old and worn out but a new OEM oil pump is MORE than sufficient for a 400whp weekend warrior. Like I said I drive mine around between 460-530whp and NEVER have I had starvation issues. I also rev way beyond 5700 which is where you say they begin to have problems and again I have ZERO issues.


Even installing a turbo on these engines with oil return can reduce engine oil pressure and cause over heating.

Turbo with oil return? I hope every turbo setup has an oil return otherwise it's going to spew out everywhere.

Look man I'm not trying to be mean but I think you've overstepped on this one. The issues that you're trying to blame on certain parts doesn't make sense. Maybe in a road race car at 7500 rpms in a long sweeping turn has some type of oil starvation problem. I could believe that but I have never seen such a thing before on any street car. Just isn't a problem.

I'm asking you to go to ka-t.org and go to the "Rides" section on the main page and look through all the featured cars and see who has an upgraded oil pump! Because if us 500+whp ka-t guys can do it I truly question your competence when you tell me that it's impossible.

You can probably prove my point by removing your thermostat and driving around and watching where your water temps are. I'd tend to bet they'll stay very cool which at that point you'd be stuck on trying to blame it on the oil pump.

[sac]

I do not recommend BC cams. If anything go Crower (yes there is a difference and I can prove it if need be)
please...pm me with this proof...

I would at LEAST get a 3" Downpipe. But your list looks pretty good.
But if your motor is still working. And installed, I would turbo it prior.. then when you have all parts to fully build in front of you, and $$ for machine work, THEN pull motor and build. But its your car. Do what gets you your jollies...

http://zilvia.net/f/group-buys/147882-built-internal-ka24de-rebuild-kit.html
i would buy that, turbo mani your talkin about seems good, LS1 ignition coils, OEM timing chain kit, Bore .030 over, areomotive fuel reg, z32 maf, E manage, have crank machined, get this.. http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/225370-oil-filter-adapters-replace-oe-shit-ka.html (check page 4) and i would not mess with valvetrain until it goes personally. But if you insist... i would go bc 2 cams, dual springs, and stuff. I used them before.. Worked GREAT for me.

You should EASILY put 350whp down..I have built 450whp ka-t's that i wouldnt hesitate to take on a 2,000 mile road trip on a whim.

[BigVinnie]

You can probably prove my point by removing your thermostat and driving around and watching where your water temps are. I'd tend to bet they'll stay very cool which at that point you'd be stuck on trying to blame it on the oil pump.


Replaced thermostat, checked ecu codes, had 2 shops check and tell me its the same thing.....My oil pump...

[prokronic36]

can't throw on the ls1 coils w/ a jwt ecu, does the emanage have coil capabilities?

[umsports]

Replaced thermostat, checked ecu codes, had 2 shops check and tell me its the same thing.....My oil pump...

Remove it not replace it. I bet you have air pockets in your cooling system. Notorious for many nissans in general and most people stop short of getting them all out. What happens is the air pockets get stopped right in front of the t-stat causing it to not open but the temperature isn't high enough to allow it to open. Your water temp problem cannot be contributed to your oil pump unless your oil pump seizes up causing the belt to not be allowed to spin but I'm sure you'd know that.

Soooo.. You have cooling issues and you may also have oil pump issues as well but please please please keep in mind they're 2 totally different issues and you cannot blame high water temps on an oil pump. Just doesn't add up and you will soon come to realize that. I apologize for sounding like an ass and do not pretend to know everything and if I have again my mistake. But as you further develop your mechanical skills things like this will become second nature and you'd realize that your problem isn't where you're wanting it to be.

Also the pump isn't the problem and if you're having high oil temps an oil cooler with a thermostat is a great idea but you'd need to have an oil temp gauge on your car to monitor the temps to make sure that a cooler is even necessary. As I said from rd 1.. The factory oil pump is great and I've proven it so far. Now if this was an RB26 I would be your biggest advocate and agree with you 100% but these are 2 different motors therefore they inherently have completely different issues. The KA DOES NOT have an oiling issue that the OP will encounter unless he changes his car to a race car and spends long intervals at a time at extremely high RPM's. In which case an oil cooler may be a viable option. Still not an oil pump issue.

[480sx]

Toga high volume pumps have been pretty much considered as snake oil by most for the Ka. OEM or bust. Neither AMS or anyone else who really builds a high hp Ka-T puts a Toga pump in their car. Theres no need. The toga pump uses the same freaken timing cover with same sized gears that are machined to slightly tighter tolerances(so basically, they wear faster and do little to nothing for flow). In addition, i have heard of a few horror stories about Toga pumps that makes me stay the fvk away. Yea its the heart of your motor. So why stray from OEM quality thats designed to last 200k+ miles?

You have problems with you drift because your oil is sloshing all over the place Vinny, not because theres anything wrong with your pump. Get a better oil pan and an accumulator.

350 hp is done on stock cams all day, in fact they have been taken beyond 450 hp repeatedly. 248/248 or 248/232 cam swaps are common place in the Ka-T world for builds 400+ hp with strong mid range along with top end power thats desired from a DD.

In addition, a TD06 will flow enough air for 430 HP. Thats far out of the range of 550cc injectors on reasonable fuel pressure. Nothing really surprising here you'v been posting garbage for years. I swear if i hear you talking about K values one more time im gona find a way to erase you from the internet.

[BigVinnie]

Nothing really surprising here you'v been posting garbage for years. I swear if i hear you talking about K values one more time im gona find a way to erase you from the internet.


Somebody here needs hugs and love....