For the love of Silvias!!! Aftermarket Industry rant....

[Teknolust72]

*Mods, I hope this thread becomes a decent conversation, but if it gets out of hand, please feel free to close it. Thanks!*

First off, let me say that I LOVE ZILVIA. It is always a good place for information and tough love. I've met lots of cool people along the way, and I want to say thank you to everyone that help the S-chassis scene grow. A 240sx is a relatively affordable car, and its nice that people put their heart and souls into driving and buidling cars.

But what seriously worries me is where will the industry be in 5, 10, or even 20 years?!? When I first began working in this industry 14 years ago, there were sooo many people with genuine intent to build this industry. I even remember when Turbo and Sport Compact Car magazines were a NECESSITY for every garage. Some of you guys might even have friends that started from NOTHING, and have now built an awesome career out of their passions (i.e. Dr. Charles).

So why is the current state of things different? I believe it to be lack of passion and respect for cars in general. I personally, always try to buy products from the big brands because I stand behind their tuning philosophy, passion, and reputation. If I want them to continue to make great products, the least I can do to pay them my respects is by buying their products. I know someone is gonna say "A strut bar is a strut bar!", but then I'm gonna say "Are you proud to tell all your friends you bought a $20 generic strut bar? Did you get it from the same store as your fake Louis Vuitton wallet?"

Especially with the economy in a dire situation, I feel that we, as a community(as a Zilvian), need to support the companies that literally designed everything we desire for our cars. I know this topic has been covered before, and it will probably end up in a stale mate like all the other times. But what would you feel if one of your OWN community members was responsible for replica's and knock offs?

Recently, I became aware of some individuals (ON THIS FORUM) that had the audacity to replicate Super Made body kits. I understand its expensive, but if you guys enjoy having Japanese parts brought into the U.S., then why would you want to have hundreds of copies floating all over the place....

I've worked all these years in an effort to bring the U.S. tuning scene to the same level as Japan, but now I seriously question "what's the point?" If no one is thankful to have nice parts on their cars, why even bother...

Industry old-schoolers to new schoolers, please discuss....

(sorry for the huge rant)

[LongGrain]

i agree with what you are saying

i cannot honestly say that my car is knockoff free, but i do my best to buy legit parts. just when it comes to aero, i generally go with "quality" knockoffs. i drift, so naturally i destroy fiberglass like its my job, and buying a $500+ new front bumper every month or two is just not in the cards when i can get good, disposable knockoffs for a fraction of the price. and at the same time i am not destroying a rare expensive part after only a month of use...

but as far as my engine, suspension, interior, etc. i stick to brand names as much as possible. i also try to buy all my parts from local shops such as touge factory and ill garage to keep the midwest scene alive.

[ThatGuy]

There are fewer enthusiasts in the market today. Sure, there are more 240s being driven and tracked, but there are LESS "Enthusiasts".

Instead we are over run with individuals of the "Disposable parts for a disposable car" mind set. They buy a decent chassis for cheap, slap on crap parts, then wrap it around a light pole behind Wal-Mart with their dreams of being the new "Drift King". Or they are actually smart enough to take in a track day, however they aren't smart to "crawl before they walk", so they initiate the slide at the wrong time/speed/angle etc, and slide off in to a wall, tire barrier, etc. They don't care that they wrecked the car because they found a chassis for >$1000 and put another $2500 worth of second hand knock-off parts on it. What do they care?

Thus there is an influx of crap parts and crap owners. Welcome to being main stream and the commercialization of Drifting.

[rps13drift]

i agree with what you are saying

i cannot honestly say that my car is knockoff free, but i do my best to buy legit parts. just when it comes to aero, i generally go with "quality" knockoffs. i drift, so naturally i destroy fiberglass like its my job, and buying a $500+ new front bumper every month or two is just not in the cards when i can get good, disposable knockoffs for a fraction of the price. and at the same time i am not destroying a rare expensive part after only a month of use...

but as far as my engine, suspension, interior, etc. i stick to brand names as much as possible. i also try to buy all my parts from local shops such as touge factory and ill garage to keep the midwest scene alive.

Word! Engine/suspension/wheels and everything but my aero is quality parts or stuff me and my friends fabbed up on my car.
I also cant afford to break $1200 kits on the reg. If i had a legit BN or Super made kit on my car i would probably hard park it

[slider2828]

You know what, the car industry as a whole is dying not just to say aftermarket. Heck you are seeing diminishing numbers of tuned cars in Japan. You know what, people just have bigger priorities in life and cars just aren't that high any more. Things around life just cost more therefore less money for cars. Standard of living have increased beyond what people salaries can support hence a squeeze on disposable income. Fuel and public transportation is getting more expensive and better, respectively. Oh wellz....


At least people buy generic or real car parts. In Japan, no one is buying car parts period in general and its noticeably contracting. As life.... time to move on.... LOL

[Flicktitty]

I agree. i used to be a huge brand name backer.

then i had to build my girlfriends coupe, and she doesn't have the money for the best of the best stuff. so she spent her hard earned money where she could, Yes the car has knock off parts on it, Yes the car has Ebay junk on it. Is she/we proud of it? NO. But it's the best SHE could do at the time. she has put over $11,000 into her 240sx in the last year in parts. So even though she isn't keeping all companies afloat she did buy alot of brand name things and took the car to alot of local shops and have other people help with the car.

When/If i build a car it will be a brand name car. i don't care if i have to wait longer to get what i want done. I've noticed with my girlfriend buying some less then good parts that she should have waited and gotten better stuff, but meh, a little to late. i'm sure the "junk" parts will be taken out in favor of good brand name stuff in the future.

[brndck]

lol i laughed hard when i was told by one of the employees of that company that they were having knockoffs made. o well. like in every industry, if someone makes the "same" thing for cheaper, there will always be someone who will buy it. imo there is an increasingly fine line between a cheaper product (ie megan or godspeed) and a knockoff (freddy etc). and while more and more people are increasingly vocal about disapproving of "knockoffs" alot of those same people have their entire car decked out in 2nd string parts.

[CrimsonRockett]

Word! Engine/suspension/wheels and everything but my aero is quality parts or stuff me and my friends fabbed up on my car.
I also cant afford to break $1200 kits on the reg. If i had a legit BN or Super made kit on my car i would probably hard park it

+1.

I can't honestly say I've never rocked knock off parts, but I learned my lesson through them.

Cheaping out on suspension/engine pieces isn't exactly smart. Shit fails and you're F'd. Now, a body kit on the other hand, I'm not one to spend $1,500 on a full aero kit, slam my car to the ground, track it, and watch it all explode.

I don't exactly have disposable income.

However, I will always try my best to support the industry by buying name-brand parts.

I may be young, but I never had the drifter "whatever works" attitude.

I prefer doing things right the first time.

[Teknolust72]

Whats great about the aftermarket industry in Japan is that everyone knows everyone. And if you catch your friend doing something that is not tolerated, he will get SMACKED. I've heard so many stories of how "less-than-friendly" people will take care of shops that even attempt to copy, say, a BN Sports kit. Its an unspoken law; if you cross the wrong people, there will be retaliation.

I sometimes wish we could utilize those "laws" here, and call it "tough love"

[Sleepy240]

Its funny I also used to be all about the "brand name" parts and supporting the industry. But after awhile it just becomes kinda ridiculous. I mean most of us (me included) do not have copious amounts of dollars to spend on parts. Most of us do this as a hobby or just for pleasure and it simply comes down to what we can afford. In my mind there is a real hypocritical problem with people saying "I'll spend the money on a greddy manifold but won't buy a BN body kit that is to expensive." Why even buy the greddy manifold then? Because its name brand?? Because your supporting the industry?? And buying a quality brand name body kit isn't? Oh it must be because it costs 3 times that of a knock off kit. Well guess what your manifold cost the 3 times as much as the other knock off manifold. I'm not gonna sit here and say I only run name brand parts but I get really tired of people bitching and then using knock offs. I don't have a problem with it, the industry is stupid, everybody gets copied just like any other industry. Guess what your certainly not taking any money out of the multimillion dollar pockets at Greddy, or Apexi, or Megan for that matter. I'll continue to buy what I can afford, don't matter whether YOU like whats on my car or not

[A Spec Products]

I need to take a nap before I can muster up the energy to bust my rant haha...but I'll give it a shot cause I have an opinion about everything lol...

I think its hard to really understand the industry's side of it unless you actually have been on our side of the fence.

Consumers care about their own wallets and their well being, which is definitely understandable. People are self-serving by nature, and our "buy in bulk" type of lifestyle with huge conglomerates has brainwashed people into thinking that those practices extends to smaller niche industries such as the aftermarket auto industry (which it does, but should not, in my opinion).

What they don't care about (which they should) is the resulting industry that occurs due to their actions.

I think the biggest issue at the moment (besides the suffering economy) is the sheer AMOUNT OF AVAILABLE PRODUCTS in the USA.

You have a JDM part, a domestic alternative, a knockoff of those products, then the knockoffs of that knockoff! The worst part is that they'are all vying for market share. So there is just this huge overload of parts, and that's why our industry is suffering...because there are too many players, and a lack of consumers to buy all these players' items.

To side with the consumers though, sometimes they don't know better. If you are fresh to the market, you might see a knockoff product and not be aware its even a knockoff, or who is the originator of that part. Still though, I think it's just the general throwaway nature of the U.S consumer that makes people buy based on price rather than functionality of quality. I think you can play off the naive "I don't know any better" for a while, but after you make mistakes using lower quality items and seeing the frustration of it, it should be your nature to seek better quality products, even if it costs more.

There's so many cliches that go through my mind, like

- "do it right the first time"
- "you get what you pay for"
- "quality doesn't come cheap"
- "if it's too good to be true it probably is"

But really, these cliches are there because they really hold true. You cannot shop around always based on price. The dangers of shopping for the lower price is that you might get scammed, you might purchase an inferior quality product, you might just make a hasty decision, or possibly miss a great deal that came along afterward.

Obviously it's hard to live your life without being a hypocrite at some point, and I'm not saying "if you run anything fake you are wack," but rather just make educated decisions. There are going to be cases where a product and its knockoff are going to be almost the same in regards to functionality, and also cases where practicality outweighs getting the real deal.

Either way, my main sadness in regards to Zilvia (or just the 240 market in general) is a lack of pride and quality in one's car. Just because a car is worth $XXX amount of money doesn't mean you modify the car accordingly. Regardless of what car you modify, you should still want to put in the same amount of quality and attention that you would put with a car twice its value. If your response to that is "well this is only a beater," then why are you even modifying it in the first place?

Doing stuff the ghetto way is cool for about 5 minutes, you get a laugh or two, then realize "oh crap," since you just made my car worst that it was previously.

But yes, just like the OP, I have a lot of love for Zilvia as well, and I have been on Zilvia and involved in the 240 community for some time now. It just makes me sad when the scene is slowly becoming less and less like the scene I was excited about back when I first started.

+1.

I can't honestly say I've never rocked knock off parts, but I learned my lesson through them.

Cheaping out on suspension/engine pieces isn't exactly smart. Shit fails and you're F'd. Now, a body kit on the other hand, I'm not one to spend $1,500 on a full aero kit, slam my car to the ground, track it, and watch it all explode.

I don't exactly have disposable income.

However, I will always try my best to support the industry by buying name-brand parts.

I may be young, but I never had the drifter "whatever works" attitude.

I prefer doing things right the first time.

http://www.omni-ts.com/_common/img/winner.jpg

Yay

Thumbs up to you sir!

Good attitude, and still realistic!

I don't have a problem with it, the industry is stupid, everybody gets copied just like any other industry. Guess what your certainly not taking any money out of the multimillion dollar pockets at Greddy, or Apexi, or Megan for that matter. I'll continue to buy what I can afford, don't matter whether YOU like whats on my car or not

The thing that also gets me is that people have this preconceived notion that th eindustry is just swimming in money and everyone is sharks and eat babies for breakfast.

But this industry works off some of the LOWEST margins I have ever seen.

And then you factor in lowballers, and fly by night dorm room online stores whoring things out?

I've said it before and I'll continue to say it...businesses need to make money (you can all GASP now).

In order to operate and keep bringing in the parts that you guys want, businesses need to support themselves...so if you continue to lowball and eat away any chance of successful profit for a company, what do you think is gonna happen?

There is a happy medium where the seller and consumer should meet, and where the result is one that is satisfying to both parties involved.

Some of you probably think that it doesn't matter who or where your product comes from, but as more shops become less and less brick and mortar stores, who are you going to physically go to? Who is going to help you with your car? Will there be a quality replacement for the quality shop that had to go out of business?

This extends beyond just parts distribution, but also to the service side. People complain about labor rates, and how expensive it is to mount tires, etc etc...fighting over DOLLARS. Quality work costs money, and the guy mounting your tire has to eat too. Putting money into the industry isn't a BAD thing. That's why I said that until you work in this industry, you will not really see the bigger picture of why so many of us in it are frustrated at times.

[lucky7]

i have 1 knockoff piece on my car. and its only because i didnt want to swing the price for the real deal. its my manifold. other than that, everything is namebrand on my hoopty.

[whatda]

ohh man all the stuff on my car is legit

[Sleepy240]

+1.

I can't honestly say I've never rocked knock off parts, but I learned my lesson through them.

Cheaping out on suspension/engine pieces isn't exactly smart. Shit fails and you're F'd. Now, a body kit on the other hand, I'm not one to spend $1,500 on a full aero kit, slam my car to the ground, track it, and watch it all explode.

I don't exactly have disposable income.

However, I will always try my best to support the industry by buying name-brand parts.

I may be young, but I never had the drifter "whatever works" attitude.

I prefer doing things right the first time.

See this is what I mean about people being hypocritical, and I don't mean this to necessarily single you out (Nothing against you this is going to more of a generalization). It's OK to drop 500$ on a manifold but 1500$ on a body kit? No thanks I stick with my $500 knock off. But then the same people will turn around and knock on people for having a freddy manifold. I honestly don't see the difference, a knock off is just that a knock off. It doesn't matter whether its aero, manifolds, or seats.

Again I'm not gonna sit here and claim to be a purist and only use name brand parts but honestly whats the point? 99% of parts serve the same purpose nowadays. Why would you choose one company over another? Such as what makes Teins $1500 coilovers better than Stances $1200 coilovers? Yet most people will spend the 300$ less on a cheaper coil because guess what, they are VERY similar. Obviously there are differences I'm not claiming part A = part B. But when part A is very comparable to part B its not a very difficult decision.

[ESmorz]

This happens everywhere. Hell, even the cereal market is overrun by imitations.

I am sick and tired of hearing this shit. If you want quality and a guarantee get the brand you love and trust, if you want it now and you want it cheap get a lower priced item or knock off. To me the people who are buying the cheap knock off's are the type of people who wouldn't buy the original anyways. If anything I think the whole of the aftermarket needs a reboot. There just isn't as much innovation anymore and thus leaving the market stagnant and over saturated.

The 240 scene sucks. Personally I think most peoples cars are ugly as fuck. Dumping money into rusted up and twisted shit boxes that should be crushed for the sake of Nissans name anyways so they can take it out at night for cheap thrills .

So here's my advice. Suck it the fuck up and build cars for yourself. Not for the scene, not so your buddies think you're cool, and don't be a fuck tard. If the aftermarket tuning scene dies. It will start all over again and people might actually have to start doing some of the work themselves instead of whipping out the credit card and adding every shiny new bell and whistle from Greddy to their shopping cart.

[LongGrain]

Either way, my main sadness in regards to Zilvia (or just the 240 market in general) is a lack of pride and quality in one's car. Just because a car is worth $XXX amount of money doesn't mean you modify the car accordingly. Regardless of what car you modify, you should still want to put in the same amount of quality and attention that you would put with a car twice its value. If your response to that is "well this is only a beater," then why are you even modifying it in the first place?



this.

should be a sticky.

I'm active on more than one type of car forum, and I see this attitude EVERYWHERE, and honestly it makes me sick. it just begs the questions "if you really dont care enough to do things right, why even put time, money, and effort into doing them at all?" its really terrible.

[BoostedCoupe]

I fill the same way. Yeah i havent been in the 240 game long. I bought my first 240 when i was 15 which was like 4 years ago. So im by far no OG but i hate seeing people buy nothing but knock off parts and make/treat the car like shit. Like in the dope vert thread where everyone was jocking that black vert that looked like trash. I mean broken aero all over. Trunk not even on the car, the car was all rattle canned. I mean i know some people cant afford the best parts but that dosent mean you have to just thorw a car together.

Yes i would be one to buy a 500 knock off body kit. But i would buy a bn sport if i had the funds to buy it. Just because i know when i buy bn sports the bumper will fit perfect like OEM. Where when i buy that knock off kit its a hit or miss with fitment. But when it comes to parts that are important. Intake manifold. exhaust manifold etc. I wouldnt cheap out. I dont think you should ever cheap out on parts that matter. I have no problem with people buying ebay catbacks as to buying a 500+ exhaust. But when people buy cheap china made parts then complain about why it broke a month later i cant stand that.

I just wish people with 240s wouldnt destroy them just because they got them for cheap. Im sick and tired of some kid that buys a 240 goes out and destroys it because he wants to drift it. Yes i like drifting and i do some sliding on back roads and in parking lots, but i do not do it where i put other people in danger our risk destroying my car.

I also dont understand why only in the 240 game it is "cool" to do tacky mods. Like painting the interior all diffrent colors and stuff like that. Since when is that cool? i thought that is what people got called ricers for. And the whole JDM thing needs to die. I hate when people by things just because its "JDM" i will buy the quality made part, no matter what country makes it. Hell if a company in iraq made a better intercooler then a company in japan did i would buy the iraq. People just buy quality parts. Save the compaines.

Dont let the car culture die. Yeah the economy might be bad at this time but it will get better. I see the 240 scene cleaning up in the next couple years. People will move on. The 240 is the new civic. Everyone wants one. The 240 will be just like the civic itll get old to the fanboys and then the people who really like the car will still be around. Im done with my rant. A 5 paragraph post on zilvia wow.

[driven_]

"used" brand name > "new" knockoff.

my brother learned his lesson. Haha.

he has like $15,000 into his hatch.
$5,000 of that is probably wasted to him buying knockoffs.

live and learn.

[Teknolust72]

From an industry stand point, we work really hard to bring you guys GREAT products. Products that will make you proud of your OWN car. Products that have been tested through numerous environments to ensure that you end up with a quality piece that will fit and work well. But when someone blatantly copies those efforts, and the consumers buy it, it is a straight slap in the face.

Passion and respect is all I'm asking for. Just ask yourself when you look at your car "is this the BEST I could do?"

[CrimsonRockett]

See this is what I mean about people being hypocritical, and I don't mean this to necessarily single you out (Nothing against you this is going to more of a generalization). It's OK to drop 500$ on a manifold but 1500$ on a body kit? No thanks I stick with my $500 knock off. But then the same people will turn around and knock on people for having a freddy manifold. I honestly don't see the difference, a knock off is just that a knock off. It doesn't matter whether its aero, manifolds, or seats.

Again I'm not gonna sit here and claim to be a purist and only use name brand parts but honestly whats the point? 99% of parts serve the same purpose nowadays. Why would you choose one company over another? Such as what makes Teins $1500 coilovers better than Stances $1200 coilovers? Yet most people will spend the 300$ less on a cheaper coil because guess what, they are VERY similar. Obviously there are differences I'm not claiming part A = part B. But when part A is very comparable to part B its not a very difficult decision.

To make things perfectly clear, I would spend the money to buy a $1,500 kit, but I wouldn't exactly take it to the track and watch it blow up. It would be more of a hard parker(like stated above).

It's not that I'm cheap and prefer rocking a knock off kit that fits like shit. If anything, I have the same standards when it comes down to exterior parts as well(hence the reason why i'm running OEM Aero).

Your comparison to Tein and Stance is just personal preference. Both are great coilovers. Some people like Tein's more than Stance and Stance more than Tein.

I'm not one to knock on people for rocking knock-off parts either. I can understand with certain people because I've been in their shoes. They don't exactly have the money to buy Cusco this, or JIC that. They try to mod their cars with their allowed income.

People learn from their mistakes.(That's a true enthusiast). You realize how much your previous knock off part sucked compared to your new legit part. For example, I rode on D2 coilovers for about half a year. That was my first coilover...ever. I made $7.50/hr back when I got those. Sure, I had heard JIC's were the shit, but I just couldn't afford them back then. I worked hard, got out of that crappy job, got myself into an office job making loads of money(for someone still living at home with no real bills). What's the first thing I did? Got rid of my D2's and bought my current JIC FLT-A2's. WORLD of a difference.

From then on, I tried my best to replace all of the crappy parts I was only able to afford with my allowed income. I had the whole new car feel to it. No random clunks here or there.

I build my car for my own pleasure. I chose to use the best parts I can afford.

I'll never talk down to someone running knock off parts.

I simply suggest to do some research. That's really all it takes to know what parts are worth the money.

[A Spec Products]

If anything I think the whole of the aftermarket needs a reboot. There just isn't as much innovation anymore and thus leaving the market stagnant and over saturated.


This is true.

I'd say right now the industry is sorta reaching something like that and is currently self cleaning/regulating itself with closings and such.

Hopefully more of the bad companies get weeded out, and the good ones can continue to do business. For all of our sakes, trust me.

[cc4usmc]

i have 1 knockoff piece on my car. and its only because i didnt want to swing the price for the real deal. its my manifold. other than that, everything is namebrand on my hoopty.

That's probably the main reason why people use knock off stuff.. they don't wanna swing the price for the real deal. Sooo... yeah..

[Sleepy240]

I fill the same way. Yeah i havent been in the 240 game long. I bought my first 240 when i was 15 which was like 4 years ago. So im by far no OG but i hate seeing people buy nothing but knock off parts and make/treat the car like shit. Like in the dope vert thread where everyone was jocking that black vert that looked like trash. I mean broken aero all over. Trunk not even on the car, the car was all rattle canned. I mean i know some people cant afford the best parts but that dosent mean you have to just thorw a car together.

What I don't get is why people complain about OTHER peoples cars. Its not yours who cares what the hell person A buys. All you can control is what YOU buy. Its not like your gonna talk this guy into making his vert into what you WANT it to be. IMO I think it looks stupid but its not my call, hes the one who has to drive it.

Yes i would be one to buy a 500 knock off body kit.[...] I wouldnt cheap out. I dont think you should ever cheap out on parts that matter.

This is what I mean by hypocritical, you bash the guy with a rattle canned vert with a bad fitting body kit and you'll go and buy the same damn bad fitting kit. "Oh well my car is getting tracked and the kit will probably get broken". Guess what? Manifolds crack, things break it doesn't matter whether they cost $50 or $500.


To make things perfectly clear, I would spend the money to buy a $1,500 kit, but I wouldn't exactly take it to the track and watch it blow up. It would be more of a hard parker(like stated above).

It's not that I'm cheap and prefer rocking a knock off kit that fits like shit. If anything, I have the same standards when it comes down to exterior parts as well(hence the reason why i'm running OEM Aero).

Your comparison to Tein and Stance is just personal preference. Both are great coilovers. Some people like Tein's more than Stance and Stance more than Tein.

I'm not one to knock on people for rocking knock-off parts either. I can understand with certain people because I've been in their shoes. They don't exactly have the money to buy Cusco this, or JIC that. They try to mod their cars with their allowed income.

People learn from their mistakes.(That's a true enthusiast). You realize how much your previous knock off part sucked compared to your new legit part. For example, I rode on D2 coilovers for about half a year. That was my first coilover...ever. I made $7.50/hr back when I got those. Sure, I had heard JIC's were the shit, but I just couldn't afford them back then. I worked hard, got out of that crappy job, got myself into an office job making loads of money(for someone still living at home with no real bills). What's the first thing I did? Got rid of my D2's and bought my current JIC FLT-A2's. WORLD of a difference.

From then on, I tried my best to replace all of the crappy parts I was only able to afford with my allowed income. I had the whole new car feel to it. No random clunks here or there.

I build my car for my own pleasure. I chose to use the best parts I can afford.

I'll never talk down to someone running knock off parts.

I simply suggest to do some research. That's really all it takes to know what parts are worth the money.

Like I said it wasn't directed DIRECTLY at you but atleast I believe you got the jest of my post. I used Tein/Stance just for an example you can almost replace those with any two companies, Zeal or HKS Hypermaxs etc. Everybody lives to what you can afford your car is no different, I'm not gonna knock anybody for using a knock off part. I don't know what kind of situation that person is in, think about it this way maybe that person only makes 7.50/hr like you did.

[Maxstyle]

I myself try so hard to work for the parts that I have. I am currently in the industry and every month a company has to let people go because some one else wants to dip in for cheaper. I personally think that tuning your car is a privilage that is earned by hard work. I better myself to be able to afford the products produced by either original artists or engineer that created it. I know that if i sat down drawing out a product and began selling it, and someone took my ideas and gained a profit from it, I'd be upset. I'd even be compelled to eventually stop. Not only that, but cars have become fashion. It's now as disposable as ladies clothing. It's like when I used to see Tommy Sports or those Nike's that had the swoosh backwards. HAHA. Knock off's are Fike's.

[ESmorz]

240's are dead.

Tiburons are the new rage.

[BoostedCoupe]

What I don't get is why people complain about OTHER peoples cars. Its not yours who cares what the hell person A buys. All you can control is what YOU buy. Its not like your gonna talk this guy into making his vert into what you WANT it to be. IMO I think it looks stupid but its not my call, hes the one who has to drive it.



This is what I mean by hypocritical, you bash the guy with a rattle canned vert with a bad fitting body kit and you'll go and buy the same damn bad fitting kit. "Oh well my car is getting tracked and the kit will probably get broken". Guess what? Manifolds crack, things break it doesn't matter whether they cost $50 or $500.
I didnt say anything about him rocking a knock off kit. For all i know is it is name brand. I was talking about how the car is rattle canned. I mean hell factory paint is better then can. and the kit was all hanging off. it looks like he just therw the car together in 10mins or so, it just looks tacky. With the manifold. Go buy a tomie manifold and a cheap ebay one. I bet you the tomie will last alot longer than the ebay one will. Thats all im saying. I dont see how you say im hypocritical. I wasnt knocking him for something i would do. I was knocking him on making the car looks tacky. But who knows he might think my car looks like shit. everyone dosent like the same thing. o well.

[Farzam]

I meannnnnnn

I believe in doing your thing

"scenes" and "crews" and shit like that...not my taste

I guess i'm like Eminem in 8 mile or something, yo. JUST DOIN MA THANG YO

I love legit parts. But sometimes an 18 year old like me can't afford $2000 sets of wheels, or new paint. So i'm willing to take a risk in looking into getting knockoff parts. Sure, I haven't actually bought any yet, but i'm damn set on getting some sportmaxx and spacers right now. I'm not gonna brag about my wheels, and i'm definitely gonna respray em some color that won't grab much attention, but damnit i'll be happy with my purchase I bet.

Some things i'd rather dish out $$ on, and some things i'll take a hit for. If I find some nice, FIA-approved seats, and they aren't Recaro/Bride/Sparco/Status/ballerbrand i'll probably not care. IF there's a logo on the seat, i'll try to take it off...but I wont' act like i've got hot shit.

Just be humble, support your peers, have fun, and be care free! This is a passion, not a UN meeting!

[S14DB]

So there is only Boutique or Flea Market? No middle of the road options like any other industry?

[TheWolf]

there is a HUGE! stack of crap part inventory right now..... with margins getting tighter and tighter and some manufacturers don't enforce price agreements so there's nothing like competing with people in their garage..

[Sleepy240]

So there is only Boutique or Flea Market? No middle of the road options like any other industry?

EXACTLY! Everybody acts like if you don't purchase Greddy this or HKS this your car is just gonna fall apart and fail.

I am currently in the industry and every month a company has to let people go because some one else wants to dip in for cheaper. I personally think that tuning your car is a privilage that is earned by hard work.

Every other industry is experiencing layoffs and people are trying to blame "knock offs" like its the only problem. How about the fact that your company is PROBABLY knocking off a product from another company etc etc, regardless the auto industry is not the only one being effected. Tuning your car is by far NOT a privilege, anybody able to own a car should be able to tune it. What does it matter whether it cost me $5,000 or $50,000?

[BoostedCoupe]

EXACTLY! Everybody acts like if you don't purchase Greddy this or HKS this your car is just gonna fall apart and fail.



Every other industry is experiencing layoffs and people are trying to blame "knock offs" like its the only problem. How about the fact that your company is PROBABLY knocking off a product from another company etc etc, regardless the auto industry is not the only one being effected. Tuning your car is by far NOT a privilege, anybody able to own a car should be able to tune it. What does it matter whether it cost me $5,000 or $50,000?
I agree with you on all of that but. Atleast have some pride in the parts you buy. With a manifold if you can buy a megan or so dont cheap out and buy the cheapest one on ebay. IF you do buy a knock off kit atleast try and make it fit decent and paint that matches the car. just dont put it on the car and leave it with horrible fitment. Its the people who buy shitty parts where it counts then wonders why the part failed. I understand people cant buy the best of the best but dont buy the cheapest just because its cheap.

[Matej]

Ugh, another one of these crybaby threads.

Do what you want with your own car, don't worry about mine.

[ESmorz]

Ugh, another one of these crybaby threads.

Do what you see fit with your own car, don't worry about mine.

Uh oh, this was supposed to be a civilized thread to whine in.

:yum:

[Matej]

Some of the best looking cars on here are built with knockoff parts. As someone always says, money doesn't buy taste. Spend on what's important to you. And just because someone's car looks like garbage to you, it doesn't mean anything, the owner might love it more than you will ever love your car with all of your authentic parts. (This isn't directed at ESmorz, he's cool.)

[Bubbles]

Nothing is ever accomplished with these threads.

[ESmorz]

Some of the best looking cars on here are built with knockoff parts. As someone always says, money doesn't buy taste. Spend on what's important to you. And just because someone's car looks like garbage to you, it doesn't mean anything, the owner might love it more than you will ever love your car with all of your authentic parts. (This isn't directed at ESmorz, he's cool.)

Of course it isn't.

I don't buy parts anyways.

Suck my dick aftermarket.

[Bubbles]

This thread could go JDM fanboy at any moment.

Be advised and keep your eyes open.

[HyperTek]

i always thought "if i cant afford the real deal, ill just wait it out, or not even participate".

Not soo many people appreciate the guy who invests and treasures his car any more. General conscious towards those people now is "you dont drift, you fail" attitude.

I dont really care, as long as the individual has a down to earth attitude and is cool, speaks with respect and is knowledgeable, then thats great... IF their car is built with all legit parts, thats a plus.

As long as the individual wont be cocky about it, or have a "i would never pay $$$ for that when i can get the ebay part"... it does kinda ruin the fun.

Also with the popularity of these cars, Vehicle theft is at a higher risk now. Even stock s13s get jacked.

[Teknolust72]

Ok...lets get back on track....

How do you guys feel about your friend, someone you expect to be reputable, is directly responsible for copies? Meaning he literally bought 1 of part number, to send to a factory to copy. And I'm not talking about just some random person, but someone that many Zilvian's respect.....

[soreballz]

^Who cares? The people that buy knockoff aero would never be able to afford the real deal aero anyway. And chances are, the people that CAN afford real deal aero will buy the real deal aero rather than the knockoff. With that said, people aren't hurting the real deal aero makers by buying knockoffs because they never would've paid for the real thing anyway.
Get it?

And stop pussyfooting around. If you're gonna put someone on blast, just do it and get it over with.

[Matej]

Also, many people who like to boast about supporting the "industry" don't seem to realize that they're doing nothing for the companies by buying secondhand parts, no matter how authentic they are. As far as supporting the industry goes, buying brand new knockoffs probably helps more than buying used real parts.

[FaLKoN240]

I think what you guys fail to realize is that without the companies that ORIGINATED the designs that are being knocked off... the map.

They won't be there anymore.

It won't mean much to them to leave a scene of ungrateful people that don't give a shit about them and would sooner buy a cheaper product.

If they're not there, they won't be putting in the big dollars to research and develop new parts.

I will continue my rant later...

[Matej]

I think what you guys fail to realize is that without the companies that ORIGINATED the designs that are being knocked off... the map.

They won't be there anymore.

It won't mean much to them to leave a scene of ungrateful people that don't give a shit about them and would sooner buy a cheaper product.

If they're not there, they won't be putting in the big dollars to research and develop new parts.

I will continue my rant later...
As soreballz said, the people who buy the knockoff wouldn't have bought the real part anyway. The people who want the real part will buy the real part. As long as the company keeps making good products and smart business decisions, they will stay around. If not, blaming the consumer is the last thing they should do. You build a business around what there is a demand for, not what you want there to be a demand for. That's what GM has been doing, and look how that worked out for them.

[Bubbles]

I will continue my rant later...


One can only hope. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Maxstyle]

As soreballz said, the people who buy the knockoff wouldn't have bought the real part anyway. The people who want the real part will buy the real part. As long as the company keeps making good products and smart business decisions, they will stay around. If not, blaming the consumer is the last thing they should do. You build a business around what there is a demand for, not what you want there to be a demand for. That's what GM has been doing, and look how that worked out for them.

YOu are correct MATAJ: Currently the market reflects the hard times the industry suffered in '82. These times will seperate the strong from the weak. Those that have structured in such a way that protects themselves and those that misses a step. To answer the question asked by Teknolust's question..Although it would not be ground for me to terminate my friendship, I would not be very happy to hear he is replicating original products.

[DMaxUSA]

I think what you guys fail to realize is that without the companies that ORIGINATED the designs that are being knocked off... the map.

They won't be there anymore.

It won't mean much to them to leave a scene of ungrateful people that don't give a shit about them and would sooner buy a cheaper product.

If they're not there, they won't be putting in the big dollars to research and develop new parts.

I will continue my rant later...

FaLKoN240 is correct once again!!!

D Max made the move to open up an office in the U.S. to support the growth of the drift scene in America, and literally, not more than 2 weeks after that, I see people asking Chaser Aero to copy our D Max wings.

PATHETIC!!!

For years, we held off on coming to the U.S., and when we finally do, some of you guys ask for a knock off. If that keeps up, then we will no longer WANT to be in the U.S., nor would be able to continue as a business.

[smokin 14]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matej http://zilvia.net/f/images/zilvia/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://zilvia.net/f/230868-love-silvias-aftermarket-industry-rant-2.html#post2525160)
As soreballz said, the people who buy the knockoff wouldn't have bought the real part anyway. The people who want the real part will buy the real part. As long as the company keeps making good products and smart business decisions, they will stay around. If not, blaming the consumer is the last thing they should do. You build a business around what there is a demand for, not what you want there to be a demand for. That's what GM has been doing, and look how that worked out for them.

^^^^
this is what im talking about


So let's say hks makes a part fist of it's kind then u see apexi, greddy, jic, and who ever else starts making the same part to, and u start buying the part from the other compainys other than the original compainy. That too is a knock off so where does it end ?

[brndck]

So let's say hks makes a part fist of it's kind then u see apexi, greddy, jic, and who ever else starts making the same part to, and u start buying the part from the other compainy other than the original compainy. That too is a knock off so where does it end ?

a big name company like that wouldn't directly copy another companies product. they would re-engineer it and try to improve on it. do you see hks selling "greddy-style" intake manifolds? companies that actually invest $ into R & D are what separates them from those who just sell ______-style products.

[smokin 14]

It's still a knock off just a brand name company is knocking it off . Im not saying buy knock offs just get in where u fit in.

[blitzkrgCT9A]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matej http://zilvia.net/f/images/zilvia/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://zilvia.net/f/230868-love-silvias-aftermarket-industry-rant-2.html#post2525160)
As soreballz said, the people who buy the knockoff wouldn't have bought the real part anyway. The people who want the real part will buy the real part. As long as the company keeps making good products and smart business decisions, they will stay around. If not, blaming the consumer is the last thing they should do. You build a business around what there is a demand for, not what you want there to be a demand for. That's what GM has been doing, and look how that worked out for them.

^^^^
this is what im talking about


So let's say hks makes a part fist of it's kind then u see apexi, greddy, jic, and who ever else starts making the same part to, and u start buying the part from the other compainys other than the original compainy. That too is a knock off so where does it end ?

All of the companies you have mentioned do not copy each other's products.

The most copied parts are Aeros and wheels in this aftermarket industry.

[HyperTek]

the people who buy knock offs.. well.. more then likely probably wouldn't even be involved in the scene in the first place if parts weren't cheap for them or there was a scene to look forward to in the first place.

Laughing at all the people sticking up for knock offs.

To the OP , i see where you are coming from, i once worked at a bodykit company so i know the ins and outs.. They see a jdm bumper, figure no other company has it, buy it, send it to china, few weeks later recieve a container full of copies, sell for profit.. But eventually other companys would catch on, make a copy of your copy to add to their catalog.

You see it as "a quick easy buck, the kids will buy tons of these, and i can make em cheap ", but at the same time you are contributing to the knock off market.. and then add the multiplier of all the other guys who figured this out and want a piece of the action.

[HyperTek]

Im kind of oldschool with it.. if you been around before the flood of knock off parts, you could appreciate legit parts and guys with build ups.

If you havent been around that long, then I would think you may not understand why the older guys think this way.

[smokin 14]

Not directly the same thing but come on a company makes coilovers then the next company come along changes the color and spring rate but it dose the same thing, but just cuz it a name brand compainy it all right.

[SexPanda]

If I had an s chassis, with my current job, I'd be full of name brand, quality parts. Because thats what your paying for with a name brand part.

Ex. Volk Vs. Rota.

Same design, round, holds a rubber tire that holds air... But one is better than the other, because one is name brand. And when you have a "name brand" you have one because people trust that company, and that company uses quality materials and tons of R&D. You get what you pay for.

But alas, I have a BMW. The only name brand I have is Dinan. The rest is DDM, IE Knock-off. But they are quality as well, with great customer support. But thats little things. Fog lights, grills, headlights, blah blah blah. When it comes time to do some serious work, I will only trust the name brands.

You can thank those ricetastic movies for alot. Truely a double edged sword. Alot of my friends who got into cars after seeing that movie the first time, now have nice cars with quality parts. Except my brother. he has a DSM. So he just does free shit like crushing the BOV and what not.

But at the same time, there are the people who saw those movies and wanted to be just like it, but without the cash. People who buy ebay "coilovers" and knock off wheels, just to get the look. And when they learn their cars are still slow, they get knock-off performance parts.

HOWEVER... I can't hold the reputable companies innocent 100%. They should have done what many other companies have done to survive. Unfortunately thats to sacrifice quality for quantity while still offering the good stuff for the premium price (see Chrysler circa 1980's). Great business ethics? Not quite. But nice guys finish last. You have to keep up with the market. The people who can and want the good stuff are few and far between. You gotta expand to the cheap asses.

[Teknolust72]

a big name company like that wouldn't directly copy another companies product. they would re-engineer it and try to improve on it. do you see hks selling "greddy-style" intake manifolds? companies that actually invest $ into R & D are what separates them from those who just sell ______-style products.

Brndck is correct here!! All the big brands spend time and money to develop new products for their customers.

Lets look at coilovers for a moment, since we always debate this. We know there are top brands that specialize in suspension, such as Endless, JIC, Tein, Cusco and so on. And then there are what people consider "branded" coilovers, such as Greddy, Apex'i, HKS, etc. Some of you guys would call these coilovers as cheap knockoffs. However, just because they are not specifically made at that certain manufacturer, doesnt make it less quality. What it means is that those companies accept that they are not suspension experts, and instead ask an outside reputable manufacturer to produce these components for them to their own specific requirements. For example, Yashio Factory coilovers are made by HKS. Does that make Yashio a knock off company? Definitely not, since Okamura-san spent the time and money to develop a component that meets his requirements.

On the other hand. Companies like Megan, God Speed, etc, also contact similar suspension companies for their coilovers. Which is why soooo many of you guys are quick to believe that Megan=Apex'i. WRONG! That is what these manufacturers in China say as a sales pitch; "Our factory is very good quality. We make suspension for Greddy/Apex'i too". How are you gonna verify that information?? Just because a friend of friend who knew some guy in Taiwain told you.....bullshit!


the people who buy knock offs.. well.. more then likely probably wouldn't even be involved in the scene in the first place if parts weren't cheap for them or there was a scene to look forward to in the first place.

Laughing at all the people sticking up for knock offs.

To the OP , i see where you are coming from, i once worked at a bodykit company so i know the ins and outs.. They see a jdm bumper, figure no other company has it, buy it, send it to china, few weeks later recieve a container full of copies, sell for profit.. But eventually other companys would catch on, make a copy of your copy to add to their catalog.

You see it as "a quick easy buck, the kids will buy tons of these, and i can make em cheap ", but at the same time you are contributing to the knock off market.. and then add the multiplier of all the other guys who figured this out and want a piece of the action.

Thanks HyperTek, I'm glad a couple of the old schoolers understand where I'm coming from. What sucks nowadays too, is that there isnt anything out there to teach the next generation...

[kingkilburn]

Who knocked off what kit? We can confront this head on.

[flip3d]

Where will the market be in 20 years? Uh... HKS will be making 48V batteries that make our electric cars go 0-60 in 2.4s. 100% tq off the line, yo.

[DataXUnknown]

I must agree with just about 100% to the op.

The only thing that gets to me...is that I can't afford to even save up for somthing so expensive, which is why I think some people buy knock offs. They want to try and get to the top as quick as possible. Kids are on a budget (I would know), so they want anything they can get their hands on that is a mod to their cars.

[ESmorz]

Kids are on a budget (I would know), so they want anything they can get their hands on that is a mod to their cars.

Well those kids are idiots.

:whip:

[usdm180sx]

Fuck knock offs. Not my style. Oh well everyone is different.

[ZilviaKid]

Where will the market be in 20 years? Uh... HKS will be making 48V batteries that make our electric cars go 0-60 in 2.4s. 100% tq off the line, yo.
haha i lol'd

[C. Senor]

it sucks that shit happens, but that is the nature of people and the nature of business. some one always tries to bring something similar for a cheaper price.

i dont think i can say i dont have any knock off parts on my car. and i dont have stuff like jic or cusco suspension....which consists of most the aftermarket stuff that is on my car. i can't afford some of the top-of-shelf stuff like that. but i do what i can. pertaining to this specific topic. i dont think i would buy knock off parts. they are close, but i (personally) dont think it's the same. but that's why i have the oem crap.

the majority of the people that buy 240's are kids. they dont have a lot of money, and are in the state of yeah i got this kit or part for my car...i'm so cool. so that' doesnt really help with buying the "good" stuff.

i say "good" stuff because you never know with the knock off stuff. like my suspension, the multi links in the rear are from a brand i never heard before, and i've only heard of one other person running them on a 240. but they have lasted me for almost 2 years dailying. i got them for availability. for every other brand in my price range...for comparison i was originally going to go with battle version once again not jic or cusco, but rather decent i believe...i would have had to wait a full week more to get the parts. at the time my 240 was my only means of transportation, so i needed it up and running as soon as i could get it. that may also have something to do with people buying certain parts.....for availability.

[Ethix]

First, let me just say that I honestly don't care if people run knock-off parts.

Now, here's what I think the problem is.

It all comes back to Form over Function. The 240sx scene (and pretty much the whole import scene) seems to be more interested with looking good than having a car that performs well.

People say they run knock-off aero because they can't afford real aero or because they don't want to destroy $1500 kits......so don't run aero. It isn't helping your car (most likely) perform better.

You're trying to look cool like those pictures you see in all the Japanese car magazines and videos without spending lots of money. Sometimes the cars come out looking good, but you definitely lose the cool factor when everyone knows you only paid like $500 on ebay for your aero and the cars you're trying to replicate had real aero.

The car doesn't have to have aero and 19x12 wheels and candy paint to look good and perform well. I think everyone would be more impressed if you took that $500 you spent on ebay aero and bought some quality performance parts with it.

Example: CrimsonRockett's car in his sig looks awesome. A kouki front bumper on that thing and it'd look perfect. No knock-off aero required.

Anyway, I can't believe I typed all that and I'll be surprised if anyone actually reads it all but that's just what I think.


Now, does anybody know where I can get some knockoff aero for my Subaru?:2f2f:

[kingkilburn]

How about the real deal companies come out with nice gear with less features at a lower price point? Some one could make a kit out of materials with drifting in mind so when you do bash it oh well. Still made by the name brand, but out of lesser materials.

[HyperTek]

^^ factor in import costs and fees..

It would be easy for those ebay companies to make their own kits and just sell those cheap.. but usually they lack creativity, or resources to make their own shit, since copy and paste is pretty easy.... or their designs just suck, or the market mostly catering to "JDM" looks

I made the rear spoiler for my fc, had someone contact me about making it in cf and giving me one.. ive yet to consider giving it up because once I do, i no longer own the piece and dont get anything out of it really.

[SlideWell]

like Logan said, if you choose to use a knock-off product, choose wisely.
i know a guy with an S14 that loved the fact he used knock-off parts on the whole car.
i know a guy with an R32 GTR that cant stay away from ebay and is always lookin for the better deal.
i know a guy with a real rhd s14 silvia that uses knock-off shit and rattle cans his car.
what i do know about these 3 people is they havent been in the scene as long as us older members. does age have something to do with it? maybe, maybe not. all around, i think its simply the person. no matter how bad i want a FMIC, i wont settle for an ebay interfooler. ill wait and save for the Blitz i want, the one that is dyno proven to give me the most gains, even when a ex-employee of the shop pushed me to just get a Greddy. most people these days arent into waiting for a supreme product, not paying for it. they want what looks just like the others and does the same thing, whether it be coilovers, seats, or a steering wheel. what bugs me is i see too many trying to be Dori Dori, and yet...does anything about their car truly represent them as a person? i believe a car should, and i have chosen my parts accordingly. from an industry standard, working in the business, its very hard to cope with. i buy the best of the best, recommend the best of the best, but in the end, you have to work with peoples budgets and personalities. i factor in greed. within the past few years, a lot of people wanted to get rich, and quick. and look what happened...for those who know the market values in Japan, will know that they really arent much more here. i think we are so fortunate to have this great forum with awesome people on here that hook us up with the real stuff at great prices.

[Sleepy240]

What really gets me is you people think that knock offs are destroying these HUGE companies. Greddy did the whole bankruptcy thing not because of knock offs, how about because of a piss poor economy, ZERO marketing especially here in the states, maybe they should have been a little smarter with their R&D. Sure people knock them off, it happens in EVERY single industry. I'm not worried if Greddy or HKS or some "big" player like that drops out of the US market or ANY market for that matter, frankly I think its for the better. If they drop out somebody else will be FORCED to develop "new and innovative" products. They will be forced to use some money on R+D and those companies that are truly a waste will simply fade away. Starting back from square one certainly can't make things much worse than right now

[aznpoopy]

i've heard alot of rhetoric and very little in the way of facts

how much does it actually cost to develop an aero set
what kinds of costs are being subsidized by the higher price tag associated with genuine aero
to what extent is the higher cost attributed to the fact that the manufacturer lacks efficient US distribution infrastructure

if those costs are minimal, then knock off makers aren't undercutting manufacturers. instead, manufacturers are pricing themselves out of the market. who would buy knock off when genuine is the same price?

[Om1kron]

I build my car for me, and only me.

as far as knock off parts and non knock off parts I would have to weigh the functionality of that product vs the functionality of the knock off and then compare the quality of the part.

For instance, Stance just released an oil block adapter that is pretty much without a shadow of a doubt a knock off of the tomei oil block adapter, and includes fittings and o rings and stuff just like the tomei block does...

For the price and the function of this part. I have no problem picking stance over tomei, nobody is going to jack my car up, and give me a +1 rep on a tomei oil block running to my filter relocation lines. It's just not going to happen.

The seat that came in my car is some shitty knock off bride seat, and the sad thing is granted the seat is faded all to hell. It's more comfortable than my old RECARO SRD (before they became recaro sports or whatever) and it doesn't move itself everytime I get in and out of the car so I have to re-adjust it.

Does it burn a hole in my ass that it's big and fake and i'm doing a lot of quality work on my car right now, candy apple volks, authentic vertex kit, 250 dollar lug nuts. I think I'm at least 100 dollars in on just materials I've purchased to sleeve my engine harness and as much as I would like to address that shit for peace of mind.

that shitty seat can stay right where it is until I can do it right and just get my bride gais low max seats and rails shipped to me all at once. But please believe If I sit in those panda garage or car part hook up knock off's and they feel just the same as the low max seats for 80 percent less than the brides (since i'm not even buying fia compliant seats) then I'll go with those seats and call it a day.

Doesn't bother me one bit, someone is always going to down you for buying some fake shit to validate what they spent on parts. This isn't a fashion show, not everybody here makes 20+ an hour and gets to spend a check and a half on their car's every month.

Some people have kids, rent, mortgages, school loans, credit cards, stupid shoe habbits, social lives and those things cost money too.

Try spending some knock off money trying to get some pussy and see where that gets you on a friday night. So you gotta cut the budget short somewhere, I don't promote the wackness and I seriously don't condone a fully built megan racing car especially when they pawn the products off to be original when they're blatant knock off's.

Just build your car for you and have respect for your fellow man, and if you cant afford shit, do what you can within your means and stop stealing other peoples cars for shit regardless of the reason. - that's to the thiefs reading as I know you guys post here too.

that's all I gotta say on this topic.

[Maxstyle]

What really gets me is you people think that knock offs are destroying these HUGE companies. Greddy did the whole bankruptcy thing not because of knock offs, how about because of a piss poor economy, ZERO marketing especially here in the states, maybe they should have been a little smarter with their R&D. Sure people knock them off, it happens in EVERY single industry. I'm not worried if Greddy or HKS or some "big" player like that drops out of the US market or ANY market for that matter, frankly I think its for the better. If they drop out somebody else will be FORCED to develop "new and innovative" products. They will be forced to use some money on R+D and those companies that are truly a waste will simply fade away. Starting back from square one certainly can't make things much worse than right now

What about that new company? The company that was built after Greddy and HKS fell. Is that company only allowed to grow to a certain point before you believe they should fall as well? And wouldn't you want a company with experience and history as a manufacture? It seems like you are just anti big business. I'm sure that's not what you meant by it, but it really does sound that way. As a person in the industry (and I know many others like me) I've taken a pay cut to insure that products. And look at the value of Yen to Dollar. right now it's only at 90yen. And imagine trying to pay the engineers that developed the product for the next one. How about the artist that designed the bumper they have to get paid to continue the work. I'm an advocate of education. You go to school, you earned the pay. I really don't like that whole well I don't have a good job thing either. I used to make about $8 an hour and still found a way to get a deal on new quality parts.

[EroGori]

Isn't buying used parts just as bad for the industry as buying new knock off stuff?

[Teknolust72]

What really gets me is you people think that knock offs are destroying these HUGE companies. Greddy did the whole bankruptcy thing not because of knock offs, how about because of a piss poor economy, ZERO marketing especially here in the states, maybe they should have been a little smarter with their R&D. Sure people knock them off, it happens in EVERY single industry. I'm not worried if Greddy or HKS or some "big" player like that drops out of the US market or ANY market for that matter, frankly I think its for the better. If they drop out somebody else will be FORCED to develop "new and innovative" products. They will be forced to use some money on R+D and those companies that are truly a waste will simply fade away. Starting back from square one certainly can't make things much worse than right now

I understand your economic theory here, but if you tried to apply it to the Aftermarket industry, then it will not hold up. The major reason why knockoff companies are detrimental to most industries is that they can maximize their profits by minimizing their developmental costs. Megan, God Speed, Circuit Sports, etc will always be cheap because they stole EVERY design aspect from the qualified engineers of reputable companies, and then go even further to reduce costs by having products made in sweatshop conditions with inferior parts.

If you remove the reputable companies from the equation, do you think Megan Racing will hire a TEAM of Race Mechanics/Engineers to develop their product. I highly doubt it. And I dont see how as a consumer you can "force" them to do so...and honestly, would you WANT them to?

You might even liken this situation to your current job. Have you ever had a manager, or someone in a high position, who clearly is not suited for that position, but yet he is still manager? Most of the time, that dumbass got promoted because all the good people in front of him either moved on to something else, or got fired. So can you FORCE him to step up his game? I highly doubt it...and honestly, wouldn't you want him to still be your manager?

[HyperTek]

Om1kron i understand that your car came with the seat, and it happens to work/not broken, so you have the idea to keep it since it works just fine.. no problem with that.. Now would it have been your first choice to get that seat if it was originally up to you? Following your build, you seem to be a guy of good tastes/quality of parts etc.

[datboibrad]

what i never understand is why people cant seem to save up for the parts they want? be it knock off or big name brand? you buy what you can afford, true. BUT whats so hard about saving up to get what you really want? its seems as tho most people i know who settle for the first thing they can get is because they feel that they have to have things NOW. whats the point of an overnight project?

[Om1kron]

Om1kron i understand that your car came with the seat, and it happens to work/not broken, so you have the idea to keep it since it works just fine.. no problem with that.. Now would it have been your first choice to get that seat if it was originally up to you? Following your build, you seem to be a guy of good tastes/quality of parts etc.

I don't even know the difference between real brides and fake ones, so I would probably be that stupid guy that picked up a pair on the cheap to find out they're re-covered nrg seats or something and have everyone point and laugh.

I'm not the type of guy who has taken a lot of pride in caring for the vehicles I drive. I wash my cars with shit from wal mart, I have NEVER used zaino... wtf people spending 150-600 dollars to wax their cars, wtf is that shit. I just like driving!

If I can mod my car to do that then I am happier than a pig in shit, only when I want to go over the top and do an exhausting "i'll never want to do this shit again" build like my s14 will I go and look for nothing but authentic shit.

I'm trying to get a masa motorsports aero bonnet for my s14, RHDJapan is working with me to get the hood, anybody here spend 2000 dollars on a hood for their car before.

didn't think so.

my s13... oh yeah siebon and stock junk yard hoods are looking REAL GOOD right now. You feel me?

My s13 most likely will have a vertex kit on it as well unless there is a god and I can get my hands on an m sports aero kit without sacraficing my left nut to get it. It's going to be my daily so i'm looking for "I DONT GIVE A FUCK IF IT GETS STOLEN" mods to it.

so if some cocksucker takes my car, i'll laugh at them like I knew the car was a piece with fake ass rainbow skittle flavor colored bride seats or whatever in it.

If it's a track whore who gives a fuck, let them spend double the money on replacing failing knock off's. If I am at the track and something breaks on my car, i'm not going to be "oh those are megan tie rods and i'll need that to get home, nah it's knock off I don't play that shit"

fuck it a tie rod is a tie rod. All you need is some slap ass who can copy your cnc specs and pump it in a machine, it's not like anchient monks at the top of mt fuji hand engrave the threads on the bolts holding my car together lol.

sigh i'm just bored and at work, how is everyone else doing.

OH AND GO DOLPHINS!!!

[ESmorz]

what i never understand is why people cant seem to save up for the parts they want? be it knock off or big name brand? you buy what you can afford, true. BUT whats so hard about saving up to get what you really want? its seems as tho most people i know who settle for the first thing they can get is because they feel that they have to have things NOW. whats the point of an overnight project?

Because you might die tomorrow.

[Teknolust72]

Because you might die tomorrow.


Which is why I hurry to spend all my money..!!! :rofl::rofl:


OFF TOPIC:
Om1kron, I dont think a MASA hood should cost that much. Don't place your order yet until I get back to you. I think I should be able to get that hood cheaper.

And I can get M Sports aero for sure, so if you want a quote let me know!

[Sleepy240]

What about that new company? The company that was built after Greddy and HKS fell. Is that company only allowed to grow to a certain point before you believe they should fall as well? And wouldn't you want a company with experience and history as a manufacture? It seems like you are just anti big business. I'm sure that's not what you meant by it, but it really does sound that way. As a person in the industry (and I know many others like me) I've taken a pay cut to insure that products. And look at the value of Yen to Dollar. right now it's only at 90yen. And imagine trying to pay the engineers that developed the product for the next one. How about the artist that designed the bumper they have to get paid to continue the work. I'm an advocate of education. You go to school, you earned the pay. I really don't like that whole well I don't have a good job thing either. I used to make about $8 an hour and still found a way to get a deal on new quality parts.

No where I did a say that the company can only grow to a certain point but all these "big" companies could have made sacrifices to control THEIR costs along with THEIR profits especially in these dire times. I'm not anti-big business I actually work for a big business company. Frankly I've taken a paycut, I have friends who have lost their jobs. Hell my own mother lost her job after 35 years with a company. You talk about having new products developed and I haven't seen jack in recent years. Blah blah I like education too etc, I have a college degree and I make more than $8/hr does that mean I should only buy top shelf parts? Should I only live in a house I can barely afford month to month? Quality is what you want it to be and what you expect it to be, people don't buy Megan parts expecting HKS quality they know what they are getting yet people still wanna harass and bother them.

I understand your economic theory here, but if you tried to apply it to the Aftermarket industry, then it will not hold up. The major reason why knockoff companies are detrimental to most industries is that they can maximize their profits by minimizing their developmental costs. Megan, God Speed, Circuit Sports, etc will always be cheap because they stole EVERY design aspect from the qualified engineers of reputable companies, and then go even further to reduce costs by having products made in sweatshop conditions with inferior parts.

If you remove the reputable companies from the equation, do you think Megan Racing will hire a TEAM of Race Mechanics/Engineers to develop their product. I highly doubt it. And I dont see how as a consumer you can "force" them to do so...and honestly, would you WANT them to?

How do you figure this economic theory does not apply to the aftermarket? It applies to EVERY market. The aftermarket tuner industry isn't all by its lonesome, sure it has some unique aspects to its problems but they are generally the same as other industries. Person A makes something, person B makes it cheaper, person C still makes that even cheaper. And I don't see why your going to put certain companies down notches simply because they LACK the R+D of companies that are currently going bankrupt. Guess what there IS a reason for that and not all of it the knock off aspect.

If the big players are removed these companies for your example Megan, will either HAVE to use some R+D and produce new HIGHER quality products or they will simply fail as a company. And absolutely I would want them too. Competition is what creates new innovative products, even HIGHER quality products because people want their share of the market. I think the biggest problem is large companies just EXPECT to own a certain percentage of the market and now guess what they are shit outta luck, part of it is their fault. In all honesty if you DO NOT believe the profit margin on a $1500 body kit mass produced out of fiberglass or urethane products is INSANE then you sir are mentally ill. (Just an example I could easily rattle off a few more) These companies have certainly made their money and long passed the cost of the R+D now its just money out of their pockets and they are not happy.

You might even liken this situation to your current job. Have you ever had a manager, or someone in a high position, who clearly is not suited for that position, but yet he is still manager? Most of the time, that dumbass got promoted because all the good people in front of him either moved on to something else, or got fired. So can you FORCE him to step up his game? I highly doubt it...and honestly, wouldn't you want him to still be your manager?

This statement is pretty confusing, people do not get promoted simply because the people above them get promoted. That is absurd, I'm sure it can happen but your gonna say the majority of the time? Performance and work ethic always have something to do with it. Any company, no matter how small or large is going to be smart about promotions. And of course you can FORCE him to step up his game by stepping UP your own game. Especially if by your logic hes a total dumbass it should be a cake walk.

[Om1kron]

Which is why I hurry to spend all my money..!!! :rofl::rofl:


OFF TOPIC:
Om1kron, I dont think a MASA hood should cost that much. Don't place your order yet until I get back to you. I think I should be able to get that hood cheaper.

And I can get M Sports aero for sure, so if you want a quote let me know!

Remember no commercial sales unless you're an advertiser. but that doesn;t mean you cant pm me info about s14 kouki masa motorsports aero bonnet (not the s14.5 front end conversion hood) and an m sports aero kit for an s13. That would be greeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaat.

[ESmorz]

Want to know why cars suck?

I paid a thousand dollars for my Corolla. The wheels I want for it are two thousand dollars. Unless Rota makes some knock off's lmao.

[Teknolust72]

How do you figure this economic theory does not apply to the aftermarket? It applies to EVERY market. The aftermarket tuner industry isn't all by its lonesome, sure it has some unique aspects to its problems but they are generally the same as other industries. Person A makes something, person B makes it cheaper, person C still makes that even cheaper. And I don't see why your going to put certain companies down notches simply because they LACK the R+D of companies that are currently going bankrupt. Guess what there IS a reason for that and not all of it the knock off aspect.

If the big players are removed these companies for your example Megan, will either HAVE to use some R+D and produce new HIGHER quality products or they will simply fail as a company. And absolutely I would want them too. Competition is what creates new innovative products, even HIGHER quality products because people want their share of the market. I think the biggest problem is large companies just EXPECT to own a certain percentage of the market and now guess what they are shit outta luck, part of it is their fault. In all honesty if you DO NOT believe the profit margin on a $1500 body kit mass produced out of fiberglass or urethane products is INSANE then you sir are mentally ill. (Just an example I could easily rattle off a few more) These companies have certainly made their money and long passed the cost of the R+D now its just money out of their pockets and they are not happy.



This statement is pretty confusing, people do not get promoted simply because the people above them get promoted. That is absurd, I'm sure it can happen but your gonna say the majority of the time? Performance and work ethic always have something to do with it. Any company, no matter how small or large is going to be smart about promotions. And of course you can FORCE him to step up his game by stepping UP your own game. Especially if by your logic hes a total dumbass it should be a cake walk.


I understand your point, and I also agree that knock off companies are not the ENTIRE reason of things like Greddy going bankrupt.

I guess deep down, I'm a sucker for for the old school way of doing things. You build a car out of passion, and you put on parts from companies that share/embody your passion.

I just wish more people had the same philosophy.

[Erjay1]

I say buy what you can afford and stop complaining and worrying about what other ppl buy. If you can afford brand name parts, good for you, you will probably have the better car. If you cant afford brand name parts and have to resort to knockoff's, then good for you, it might not be the best car out there but its your car and you put it together.

Seriously, why does it matter what ppl buy? Knockoffs are everywhere and here to stay. No matter what you or anyone else does, they will never, ever go away. Just worry about what YOU put on YOUR car and move on with your life. You might live longer with one less thing to stress out about.

Companies are going bankrupt because ppl just arent buying stuff anymore, knockoff or not. With the world's economy the way it is all businesses are affected. People prefer to spend money on life's necessities rather than car parts. That's life and there is no point in ranting about it because it wont change and quite frankly, most people dont care. Im here putting in my 2 cents because Im bored and have nothing to do at work.

[turtl631]

I'm not gonna touch on everything covered here, but a lot of parts being made by Japanese companies aren't the best engineering by any means (almost all coilovers, Tein's travel consuming camber plates, etc.). I'd like to see more American companies make legit parts...there are already some, e.g. Battle Version. Veilside180SX started making housings for some pretty nice dampers, someone else was designing spherical bearings. I feel no allegiance to Japanese industry at all. Whoever can produce the best designed and most functional part gets my dollar vote. Aero I really don't give a shit about. It'd be cool if somebody tried to make something with some actual emphasis on *gasp* aerodynamics, but obviously it's all about style, so that probably won't happen. I've never seen so much hatred for "knockoff" stuff though. Do you resent Kohl's for selling a collared shirt with stripes since some designer company sells something almost identical for 10x as much?

[DMaxUSA]

I'm not gonna touch on everything covered here, but a lot of parts being made by Japanese companies aren't the best engineering by any means (almost all coilovers, Tein's travel consuming camber plates, etc.). I'd like to see more American companies make legit parts...there are already some, e.g. Battle Version. Veilside180SX started making housings for some pretty nice dampers, someone else was designing spherical bearings. I feel no allegiance to Japanese industry at all. Whoever can produce the best designed and most functional part gets my dollar vote. Aero I really don't give a shit about. It'd be cool if somebody tried to make something with some actual emphasis on *gasp* aerodynamics, but obviously it's all about style, so that probably won't happen. I've never seen so much hatred for "knockoff" stuff though. Do you resent Kohl's for selling a collared shirt with stripes since some designer company sells something almost identical for 10x as much?

I only resent Kohl's because they enslave my asian brethren in sweatshops....:D

That and the stuff they sell doesnt turn me on....

But that's off topic....

[Om1kron]

I only resent Kohl's because they enslave my asian brethren in sweatshops....:D

That and the stuff they sell doesnt turn me on....

But that's off topic....

I bought 3 pairs of pants at kohls and a pair of shoes, all 4 items equally suck and I regret these purchases.

that is all...

back on topic!

I'm going to buy a stance oil block adapter... engine failure is soon imminent.

[ESmorz]

I just wish more people had the same philosophy.

And I wish I had an Aston Martin and at the end of a 10 hour shift burning confiscated marijuana come home and bang Mila Kunis.

However, life sucks and shit sucks.

Everyone get the fuck over it and do what you want. The market will take care of itself if it's meant to stay around. If it doesn't... oh well to bad so sad. You're a human, adapt.

[HyperTek]

so lets all appreciate and increase knock off parts!!! cheap 240sx for everyone!!! Ill tell my lil cousins and their friends to buy 240s, get the parts on ebay.. boooyah!!!!!! Ill be 40 years old and still driving 240sx !!

do what you want. theres no prestige in that. oh well ive already moved on and accepted that the game will not be the same. Im more worried about theft in a daily driver i probably wouldnt consider another 240sx..

[Jakob]

guess why my s14 is still stock? right i cant afford good coilovers so i keep it stock instead of putting some megans on it. there is a saying that i think fits to some people here:

"if you dont have the time and money to do it right the first time, how do you want to afford to do it a second time?"

im saving up to do it right the first time, no matter how long it takes.

it makes me sick because on the german forums there is a guy who really has some fabrication skills and he copies bride consoles, ikeya bearings and what not. and now he even wants to copy the ikeya formula sequential shifter and the bee-r rev limiter just to sell it cheaper and make his pockets full for the cost of other companies. i mean wtf seriously? why steal their ideas?

i rather keep my car stock then get fake and/or cheap shit.

to me my car means a lot. and it deserves something better then an ebay short shifter etc...

[PANGES]

You're all posers. You should all sell your cars and buy Fords, since they were the originators of cars. When you buy your Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Chevy, etc, those are all knock off copies of the original Fords that were invented first. I hope Ford doesn't get emo and close down. Then no one will ever figure out how to make a car ever again and we'll all be stuck walking. :Ownedd:

Hell, even if HKS, Greddy, Cusco, Whatever the hell goes out of the business and closes down, someone will eventually need to make more go fast parts and put the R&D into it and make it as new cars come out. People need to eat so they'll make quality parts when the big names are gone, because customers will want them, because everyone wants to look good or go fast. Then after they do, someone else can come along and copy their idea and the cycle continues. Welcome to earth. Who was the first company that came out with the telephone again? :ddog:

I agree you should pay your respects and support your local shops, who work very hard and don't hesitate to help you out when you need it though, but I doubt anyone will pay $1000 for a part when a $500 part works exactly the same and makes you the same or more power for half the price. It just doesn't make sense. If you really feel bad, maybe you can buy the $500 part that makes more power and then mail the extra $500 you have burning in your pocket to the original company that came up with the original design.

But wait... Wont your wife and kids be unhappy this x-mas that daddy spent $1000 on a part when he could've just bought a $500 part that works just as well and bought them that Xbox 360 they've been wanting all year? Congratulations! Now you've hurt your family AND Microsoft!

Cliffsnotes: Just buy cheap shit if you want. Someone will hurt in the end whether it's the restaurant you can no longer afford to eat at because you paid $800 for an HKS manifold vs. a $400 Megan manifold, or maybe the 76 gas station you can no longer go to, because you don't have enough money and have to go to Arco. Or fuck, maybe Coach will hurt, because now you're too broke to buy your girlfriend a quality purse, because you just bought an expensive Cusco strut bar vs. Megan and now you gotta goto Hong Kong and buy her a knock off purse. Congratulations! No matter what choice you make, you hurt someone. You should all just go kill yourselves now.

Merry Xmas! :w00t:

Love,

PANGES

[Teknolust72]

guess why my s14 is still stock? right i cant afford good coilovers so i keep it stock instead of putting some megans on it. there is a saying that i think fits to some people here:

"if you dont have the time and money to do it right the first time, how do you want to afford to do it a second time?"

im saving up to do it right the first time, no matter how long it takes.

it makes me sick because on the german forums there is a guy who really has some fabrication skills and he copies bride consoles, ikeya bearings and what not. and now he even wants to copy the ikeya formula sequential shifter and the bee-r rev limiter just to sell it cheaper and make his pockets full for the cost of other companies. i mean wtf seriously? why steal their ideas?

i rather keep my car stock then get fake and/or cheap shit.

to me my car means a lot. and it deserves something better then an ebay short shifter etc...

A million posi rep for you!!!!

Keep that passion, cuz thats whats gonna bring you and your car to the next level....

[ESmorz]

There is no next level.

[PANGES]

The next level sucks, because that's always the more expensive one.

[soreballz]

so lets all appreciate and increase knock off parts!!! cheap 240sx for everyone!!! Ill tell my lil cousins and their friends to buy 240s, get the parts on ebay.. boooyah!!!!!! Ill be 40 years old and still driving 240sx !!

Fool, you don't buy parts anyway. You just buy prebuilt cars. :keke:

[ESmorz]

Zoom, Zoom, Zoom

[steve shadows]

I was thinking about something the other day...

If I built a car right now - RIGHT NOW for 400 whp - with my knowledge and competence, I could probably reach 500 whp with an sr20det with a budget of about 8000 bucks- for everything + maybe 2000 for the car.

The cheap IC, IM, injectors, EMS everything soo cheap lol

so crappy but soo sooo cheap

hence the market goes -

Luckily the only thing you cannot skimp on is the EMS- you cant get a "knock off Standalone"

Which you shouldnt, but hard parts - as long as they don't melt crack or leak are just hard parts -

Not what I believe but that's what peoples wallets say...:ughd:

[azndoc]

Blah blah blah blah blah

Such a boring thread.

Could we please just skip to the part where you tell us who this person is?

PM me I'm just fucking curious.

[kingkilburn]

/\ I second that, again.

[bboyoracle]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^:werd:

Whats great about the aftermarket industry in Japan is that everyone knows everyone. And if you catch your friend doing something that is not tolerated, he will get SMACKED. I've heard so many stories of how "less-than-friendly" people will take care of shops that even attempt to copy, say, a BN Sports kit. Its an unspoken law; if you cross the wrong people, there will be retaliation.

I sometimes wish we could utilize those "laws" here, and call it "tough love"

Everyone knows everyone on zilvia. So let us know who this guy is and let the "virtual smackdown" begin ;)

[Om1kron]

Yeah because like it's him personally that devised an evil plan to replicate supermade parts... LOL!!!

[Teknolust72]

Yeah because like it's him personally that devised an evil plan to replicate supermade parts... LOL!!!


Om1kron, you might know him, since he's part of VRT....

I thought everyone in VRT was cool people, but I guess there is always a bad apple....

I don't want to call him out like that until Super Made Japan has personally contacted him. But if he wants he is more than welcome to speak up, cuz I think he's following this thread....

[YoungGun]

Wait so someone is trying copy Supermade bodykits? And Supermade is going to try and stop them? Is this even possible?

Oh and about the knockoff parts. Like some have said there are some parts that you can spend A LOT less money on rather than buying name brand and being broke. I've learned my lesson and have broken a pair of EBAY toe arms. Was this a wise purchase? no. I bought them because I bought a bunch of other suspension parts at the time and was running out of money. After that I bought some toe arms from a reputable company. I still have cheap parts on my car, but i'd rather have cheap parts and actually be driving my car on the track every month rather than buying expensive parts and hardpark. I mean thats just my situation, I know some people have more money and they spend it on name brand stuff, good for you.

[ByeByeSti]

Come onnnn just let it outt :)

oh and the fact that people insist on blaming kids for shit like this? negative. im 19 and have owned s14's for the past 3 years. yes i have a cheap knock off uras kit i think its actually a chaser kit. but it was an hour from my house, and i just picked up the car which had alot more rust issues then ive ever seen on an s14. well i picked up the kit with over fenders and fenders for 400.... cant complain. yes its junk. no its without a doubt not staying on there. bought something for the mean time... my last s14 had autentic vertex. and now this winter this one will also be either getting origin or some more vertex. knockoffs- fitment is without a doubt an issue, my sideskirts where they go into your door jam had an extra inch of fiberglass that was in the way.... sure enough they had to be cut and look like shit. this kit will become a donation to the track in the spring while my good aero will be for other times. since the age of 16 ive been able to paint cars without a problem, single and 2 stage with ease... not all kids are retarded so dont group us all together like that thank you. and i went performance before show.. i bought my first s13 sr years ago and have been picking away at it over time. quality parts such as tanabe medallion exhaust, exedy hyper single, greddy fmic, vertex, origin, deatchwerks, hks and much more. yes, i admit i did spend the money at first and buy a p.o.s megan turbo mani... that lasted about a week before it was back out of my door because i had regretted it..

yes knockoffs do effect the economy and the income of the other producers. stuff like those junk ebay turbo kits that dont last for shit. that all the "fanboys" insist on buying just so that they can have a turbo'd car thats not going to last to long or put out that much...
if you cant afford the parts you want, and buy knockoffs. just dont brag about your car, and dont sit there and complain when it breaks.. or when you buy knockoff kits, dont whine if the fitment sucks. i knew my kit would suck, and i knew what its purpose is for in the spring time..

oh and built not bought, big believer in that one right there..

[S13_Nightkid]

I just try to get OEM quality shit. But there isn't really a complete arguement for either side.
Im not supporting knockoffs but how many of you have and AEM or whatever CAI?
Ebay has em for like 30$ and it does the SAME exact thing. You could also argue knockoff shit makes your car break down etc. If you wanna take that risk to fuck up your shit go ahead. If you wanna be baller and have Greddy, HKS, etc go ahead. Like someone said earlier, its either the boutique or the flea market?Maybe

kthxbye

[Brian]

I really really held off on contributing to this.
I figure, now is the time though. I know if I started the thread it would have been locked...


Anyways,

90% of you just do not get the bigger picture of any of this. You are selfish, individualistic people who just cannot see outside your own little box.

Enjoy.

[CrimsonRockett]

I just try to get OEM quality shit. But there isn't really a complete arguement for either side.
Im not supporting knockoffs but how many of you have and AEM or whatever CAI?
Ebay has em for like 30$ and it does the SAME exact thing. You could also argue knockoff shit makes your car break down etc. If you wanna take that risk to fuck up your shit go ahead. If you wanna be baller and have Greddy, HKS, etc go ahead. Like someone said earlier, its either the boutique or the flea market?Maybe

kthxbye

AEM is guaranteed quality fitment.

eBay is hit or miss.

AEM is CARB legal.

eBay isn't.

That's the difference.

[ESmorz]

:wtc::wtc::wtc::wtc::wtc::wtc:

The people who care... care.

The people who don't... don't.

They know what they are doing and some threads on Zilvia aren't going to change that fact. What we DO need is something said by the REAL companies. Fight this shit, let the consumer know you are the top dogs for a reason and why they should buy their crap and that you need our money to give us new and better stuff. Put these knock off companies on blast and maybe try and get a little bit innovative with some new products that the market isn't already flooded with. A multi-pronged attack on the knock offs if you will.

This entire time I have never heard a press release or whatever you want to call it of any of the major players calling these shit companies out. At this point what do you have to lose? I want to see their fighting spirit, I want to see that they will do whatever is necessary to have me as a customer.

Not just some company that sits back and takes all this crap. Take the aftermarket by the balls and take charge.


Or we can just wait till all the 240's are wrecked or rusted out and then a few hundred thousand miles later, all the honda's and not have to worry about this.

[Om1kron]

Om1kron, you might know him, since he's part of VRT....

I thought everyone in VRT was cool people, but I guess there is always a bad apple....

I don't want to call him out like that until Super Made Japan has personally contacted him. But if he wants he is more than welcome to speak up, cuz I think he's following this thread....

I'll stop you right here....

Violent Running Tribe is a group of friends and I would prefer if the name would not be associated with this thread in any manner. If you want to call someone out for replicating body parts then call him out.

I mean you would basically be slandering another company, and you as a business man should know better. (Since they can take legal action against you for that.) The person you're trying to flame is only involved in this because the company he works for deals with after market parts and is an aero manufacture... And instead of waiting for distributors like yourself and everyone else to get off of their ass with 6 month waits and ridiculous shipping was prompted with the opportunity to put his jobs ability to obtain these items for him directly cutting out the middleman.

All his company asked for in return was to mold the items in return for him to use their services....

Most people like to act like it's some ancient secret how they obtain hard to get parts or don't want to share information on who supplies their shit so they can make max profit off of the items they bust their ass to bring over here.

So really do you want to fault him for using his resources and saving some money at the same time.

Go for it, be my guest. I don't judge...

He has real super made on his car, he has sold nothing but real super made during this transaction. So if you want to hate him for buying a super made kit for every nissan model they make a kit for and in return sold what he didn't need to the public and friends. Then please blast him for selling the real super made aero.

People want to make things trendy and blow it in other peoples faces that they have the hottness and nobody else can have it, someone else makes it available and then everyone is over it and jumps on the next bandwagon.

I don't care for super-made aero, and unless that company this thread is slandering is producing these kits and selling them currently at the moment I dont understand why you persist to even mention "the culprit" like it's his fault supermade shall be disgraced.

Please start with attacking Version Select and Origin for copying vertex and uras and making slight changes to the designs so not to infringe...

but it's ok because it comes from japan right?

I don't want to flame or start arguments, but it will be a never ending life cycle and it's not Extreme Dimensions for once.

Support real products and continue to buy them, or spend your money as you please, it does not affect me in any way. Does it affect supermade and companies who made this rad stuff in japan...

maybe, but what can we do about it?

someone get me m-sports and a fucking juicebox!

pronto

[ByeByeSti]

:wtc::wtc::wtc::wtc::wtc::wtc:

The people who care... care.

The people who don't... don't.

They know what they are doing and some threads on Zilvia aren't going to change that fact. What we DO need is something said by the REAL companies. Fight this shit, let the consumer know you are the top dogs for a reason and why they should buy their crap and that you need our money to give us new and better stuff. Put these knock off companies on blast and maybe try and get a little bit innovative with some new products that the market isn't already flooded with. A multi-pronged attack on the knock offs if you will.

This entire time I have never heard a press release or whatever you want to call it of any of the major players calling these shit companies out. At this point what do you have to lose? I want to see their fighting spirit, I want to see that they will do whatever is necessary to have me as a customer.

Not just some company that sits back and takes all this crap. Take the aftermarket by the balls and take charge.


Or we can just wait till all the 240's are wrecked or rusted out and then a few hundred thousand miles later, all the honda's and not have to worry about this.

Well said man! and sorry there will still be no love for hondas even after all 240s are wrecked and rusted out.. save them. in the end, rust can be fixed :)

[bboyoracle]

Soooooo? Who is it lol

[DMaxUSA]

Super Made is fully instock in the U.S. now, so there is no reason to pay exorbant shipping prices and to wait many many months.

And Super Made was even willing to sponsor some local drivers....

[irax]

lol everyone is up in arms about knock off body kits for drift cars that are going to crash anyways. I would care more if this was a VIP forum and talking about knock off Junction Produce or other high quality 99.99999999% perfect fit kits. I got authentic Bai-westco s14.3 fenders and the fit isn't perfect. who cares right? but when I thought about making copies of a fixed version of these fenders a few friends put me on blast, and others said go for it, its not like tones of people would buy it. fucking hilarious.

besides, it sounds like a company is going to be making the knock offs and not the individual.


what about attacking the companies that sell copies as authentic? Why don't we list them and name names of companies that are supporting knock offs...

i'm sure your favorite might be on there.... except if its speed alliance/vertex all their shit is legit, not being sarcastic, I know they don't sell knock off stuff I just don't know any other company that sells only 100% authentic stuff and 0% chinese/eGay/knockoff... well other than Powered By Max.

[HyperTek]

Id hate to see this thread get closed because someone got offended.

This thread kind of relates to http://zilvia.net/f/chat/229095-s-chassis-nostalgia-no-bandwaggon-jumpers.html in my opinion.. If you been around the game before the whole knock off game, you might be a little more respectful of why some wish this way.

I suppose if you stepped into the game when the 240s have already hit their recent popularity in the past recent years, then you might not mind the cheap knock offs.

JDM Insider *the dvds* are very informative about the whole knock off game, theres such passion behind car tuning. There was a interview with Ueno speaking in regards to knock offs *im tryin to find that clip on youtube*, Basically Ueno has to eat too! everyone is taking food away from him lol

[irax]

Id hate to see this thread get closed because someone got offended.

This thread kind of relates to http://zilvia.net/f/chat/229095-s-chassis-nostalgia-no-bandwaggon-jumpers.html in my opinion.. If you been around the game before the whole knock off game, you might be a little more respectful of why some wish this way.

I suppose if you stepped into the game when the 240s have already hit their recent popularity in the past recent years, then you might not mind the cheap knock offs.

well to me a knock off kit is semi-justifiable... but other knock off products are not (function over form type of products). At the same time, you could just say never crash your car while drifting lol

[ESmorz]

Id hate to see this thread get closed because someone got offended.

This thread kind of relates to http://zilvia.net/f/chat/229095-s-chassis-nostalgia-no-bandwaggon-jumpers.html in my opinion.. If you been around the game before the whole knock off game, you might be a little more respectful of why some wish this way.

I suppose if you stepped into the game when the 240s have already hit their recent popularity in the past recent years, then you might not mind the cheap knock offs.

You know you guys sound like our generations parents saying our generation destroyed rock music.

You're afraid of change. We get it.

:rofl:

[HyperTek]

Theres also the idea that maybe alot of those companies main target goals is only japan, with no real set goals to expand to America, so i can see that the knock offs are only affecting the US market.. In japan im sure its easy to obtain original parts then it is out here.

[Teknolust72]

I'll stop you right here....

Violent Running Tribe is a group of friends and I would prefer if the name would not be associated with this thread in any manner. If you want to call someone out for replicating body parts then call him out.

I mean you would basically be slandering another company, and you as a business man should know better. (Since they can take legal action against you for that.) The person you're trying to flame is only involved in this because the company he works for deals with after market parts and is an aero manufacture... And instead of waiting for distributors like yourself and everyone else to get off of their ass with 6 month waits and ridiculous shipping was prompted with the opportunity to put his jobs ability to obtain these items for him directly cutting out the middleman.

All his company asked for in return was to mold the items in return for him to use their services....

Most people like to act like it's some ancient secret how they obtain hard to get parts or don't want to share information on who supplies their shit so they can make max profit off of the items they bust their ass to bring over here.

So really do you want to fault him for using his resources and saving some money at the same time.

Go for it, be my guest. I don't judge...

He has real super made on his car, he has sold nothing but real super made during this transaction. So if you want to hate him for buying a super made kit for every nissan model they make a kit for and in return sold what he didn't need to the public and friends. Then please blast him for selling the real super made aero.

People want to make things trendy and blow it in other peoples faces that they have the hottness and nobody else can have it, someone else makes it available and then everyone is over it and jumps on the next bandwagon.

I don't care for super-made aero, and unless that company this thread is slandering is producing these kits and selling them currently at the moment I dont understand why you persist to even mention "the culprit" like it's his fault supermade shall be disgraced.

Please start with attacking Version Select and Origin for copying vertex and uras and making slight changes to the designs so not to infringe...

but it's ok because it comes from japan right?

I don't want to flame or start arguments, but it will be a never ending life cycle and it's not Extreme Dimensions for once.

Support real products and continue to buy them, or spend your money as you please, it does not affect me in any way. Does it affect supermade and companies who made this rad stuff in japan...

maybe, but what can we do about it?

someone get me m-sports and a fucking juicebox!

pronto

I apologize for bringing in VRT name into it. It is not my intention to bring the name down, I still have high expectations for you guys, but its just dissapointing this scenario has come about. Like many others, I've always thought as VRT as an awesome street group that was "keeping it real".

I dont expect you to justify his actions, I expect HIM to justify his actions. He surely must know the impending results of allowing the company he works for to copy Super Made. Also, he specifically said, before he purchased the kit, that he would not allow the kit to become copied. I just think his move to allow the kit to be copied to be in "bad taste".

Some of you guys may not know this, but Super Made, like many other Japanese companies, are not really big. Super Made only has 3 people working there. The president, Yoshida-san, is a hard working man, and he built that brand from the ground up. His dream is to be in top 10 in D1GP, and he loves drifting to death. He has even competed in international drift competitions, and won. But due to his poor health, he cut back on practicing and decided to focus his efforts on developing products. He is an individual person, who scrapes by month to month just to support his love of drifting. He is not some huge company who's main goal is to get massive products.

My heart goes out to the guy, and he has done alot for the scene in Japan. It just sucks that someone decides to belittle his efforts....

[HyperTek]

I sold my origin stylish fc kit to some guy (legit, i was gonna put it on my fc but faced some tough times so cash was more a priority) and when the guy picked it up and loaded it into his car, he says hes gonna have some company copy it.. At first he told me that hes going to put it on his car because its in the shop getting painted at the moment.... I really couldnt say anything, awkward moment for me, didnt want to see its replicated since there are no copys of it yet. I dont know any thing else other then that.

But the whole legit jdm parts deal was what made 240s cool.. an affordable car that has tons of *imported from japan* parts. Compared to hondas where majority of the bodykits for those *for the longest time* have mostly been american designed parts and aftermarket.

[Phlip]

This argument, and the ensuing witch hunt is pure bullshit, so the fact of the matter remains that I am drawing this shit to a close. I have an idea who the person in question is, but it is none of my business to make it known, fuck I could call him and ask him if it so bothered me enough to do so.

I will keep my opinion to myself.

This thread dies now, on the merit of we're all sick and fucking tired about arguing over knockoffs.

Do not PM me about this.

[CrimsonRockett]

It's pretty obvious that this thread was meant to put the said person replicating Supermade parts on blast. I'm not here to defend anybody, but if you want to talk about companies producing knock off parts, why not put them all on blast?

There's Extreme Dimensions for example, Raceonusa, Carparthookup(doesn't produce knock-off to my understanding, but advertises a lot of it), etc.

By mentioning him, you make VRT look bad as a whole even though they had nothing to do with it.

Most people agree, a company running knock off parts is like slapping the legit companies in the face because they didn't go through the steps they had to take to produce said parts. All they simply did was hit copy/paste, but whether you like it or not, they're here to stay.

I've already stated my views on knock off parts as well as everybody else, but I can't allow this thread to go on.

If you're going to put someone on blast for copying something, put them all on blast. It's not fair to single someone out simply because he's known and on this forum.