Sway bars for Drifting?

[JohnnyDrfiter22]

Are stock swaybars good enough. If i do upgrade can i do just the rear and keep the front or will the create or more nuetral feeling. What are you guys running on your drift set ups?

[singlecamslam]

this has been covered many times. If you just get the rear sway bar that will cause the car to oversteer. After market sway bars are not really necessary.

[DeeJay1337]

Singlecamslam... if you spent that time just answering the question he'd be happy... now someone else has to answer it. Stop telling people to search and just simple answer that simple question.


Johnny... Stocks are good. but dont' go just rear, if you uprage go fronts and rears as it will stifffen up your boddy.

[Dousan_PG]

keep stock
dont waste yoru money
its not necessary

[626 FC3S]

I dont run bars on my fc at all:mephfawk:

[s13 @ fullboost]

not necessary My friend Jason drifts for RMJ and he has a fully built race car he runs stock sways tho you really do not need bigger ones.

[davirene]

A hi-performance anti-sway bar kit is one of the most important suspension upgrade buying decisions you can make. Once installed, you immediately reduce body lean and roll during normal and agressive driving. Lane changes at highway speeds becomes safer, quicker and with less risk of sloppy performance. Tire performance is greatly improved, particularly if you have upgraded wheels and tires. You will notice that handling becomes crisper and sharper. If you drive aggressively in high performance situations like drifting events, track events or weekend club events.

[Dousan_PG]

where u cut and paste that one?

[s13 @ fullboost]

where u cut and paste that one?

lol at that. thats what came up in my mind when i read that haha

[lflkajfj12123]

sway bars should be upgraded when you have nothing else to buy

like in aarons case haha

[Dousan_PG]

waste

of


money

i sold my sway bars back in the day
uselesss for my setup

[LongGrain]

its even in a different font lol.

[YoungGun]

A hi-performance anti-sway bar kit is one of the most important suspension upgrade buying decisions you can make. Once installed, you immediately reduce body lean and roll during normal and agressive driving. Lane changes at highway speeds becomes safer, quicker and with less risk of sloppy performance. Tire performance is greatly improved, particularly if you have upgraded wheels and tires. You will notice that handling becomes crisper and sharper. If you drive aggressively in high performance situations like drifting events, track events or weekend club events.

High -PERFORMANCE Anti-Sway Bars for the Audi A4 S4 and Audi S4 B5 - Sport Suspension for the Audi A4 B6 and Audi S4 B6 (http://www.lltek.com/bars.htm)

[brndck]

i have largus front and rear and i love them. i feel like the car is more predictable with them, but thats just my .02

[racepar1]

The only upgrade that makes sense is the 21mm hicas rear sway bar. Anything more than that is overkill. Hell grip guys are running without any rear swaybar sometimes and with stock front bars.

[Dousan_PG]

^^^^^
exactly

[racepar1]

I've got a hicas rear bar F/S too!

*please excuse tasteless advertising*

LOL!!!

[Shaminii]

The only sway bar I've experienced that made a difference were Whiteline sway bars that came with adjustable endlinks. I immediately noticed that changing lanes felt a lot smoother. I also accidentally spun out in my friends neighborhood while I was still getting used to them. This was when I was running AGX's with Tein S-tech springs so I'm not sure how much of a difference the Whitelines would make on coilover set ups.

Right now with my current S14, I'm running Stance coilovers with Godspeed swaybars and I hardly felt a difference when I first installed the sway bars. Then again, the Godspeeds didn't come with any endlinks and had shitty bushings to come with it.

[!Zar!]

I ran stock front and whiteline rear.

Cheap setup that I use to do back in the day was remove the front and run stock rear.

Shit, base models didn't even come with a rear sway.

haha.

[imnotmatt1189]

I've got a hicas rear bar F/S too!

*please excuse tasteless advertising*

LOL!!!

how much bigger is the hicas rear bar from the stock one?

[SlideWell]

anyone i know with aftermarkets that has a properly set up car runs fully adjustable sway bars for optimal suspension tuning. er some shit. i think stocks are good enough tho unless youre building a D1 car, haha. wait, arent we all? bahah

[Blackparade]

stock is fine. anything more is a waste like dousan was saying. Im running a jdm 180sx bar in the rear. i didnt notice a difference when i changed to it.

[!Zar!]

It depends how you set your car up.

I liked the way the car felt with a soft damper setting while running a whiteline rear sway.

Some people have their coils so stiff they don't notice/need one because the car has no roll as it. That's just a setup issue.

So I call bs on saying it's a waste.

[GSXRJJordan]

Hell grip guys are running without any rear swaybar sometimes and with stock front bars.

That's right! Take my car for instance. Totally stripped S14, SR, carbon bits, etc. Should be right around 2500lbs. Running 8k/6k springs, I have absolutely no need for a sway bar - the coils are stiff enough that there is zero body roll. I use a stock front with no rear, and the car is extremely predictable coming into and out of a slide, as well as sliding over bumps/etc.

Anti-sway bars are much more important on cars that are undersprung, like Zar was saying - it's not a waste for everyone, just everyone who's into drifting (because drifters are always overly stiff with their suspension).

[revat619]

waste

of


money

i sold my sway bars back in the day
uselesss for my setup

didn't i buy the rear one off you? hahahaha

anyway, i didnt have a rear sway bar so yeah, it helped, but with any kinda power/decent suspension set up, depending on what you're doing, yeah...its totally pointless. Stock is fine.

[rb25_s13*CHUKI]

So wait. I can count my sway bars as part of my massive weight reduction?

[cfrost]

keep stock
dont waste yoru money
its not necessary

that's the most simple way to put it, it's not necessary

some people might like them, some don't, but you don't NEED them

I've run my car on stock sway bars for years, no issues ever :bigok:

[JohnnyDrfiter22]

Wow thanks for all the responses guys, and see everyone has different opionions on them. I think im going to keep stock as i am stitch welding the chassis and adding a 6 point.

[justaKAiswear]

A lot of good info in there! I thought it was going to be a flame thread there for a sec. but a lot of good answers!

[racepar1]

how much bigger is the hicas rear bar from the stock one?

Hicas is 21mm stock is 15mm and I ha ve seen 17mm stock rear sways. You can easily feel the difference with the hicas rear sway.

[EDacIouSX]

on my old s14 that i bought (nissan4u2nv's old car if you remember his/him) when i removed the sways from Suspension Techniques to stock, the front bumper started scratching in normal turning.

That goes to show you how much of a difference sways can make but everyone here is giving you a definite no or yes as to whether or not to run them.

Personally, i liked upgraded sways.

But my recommedation to you is to find a setup that suits your taste.

It's kind of like using a baseball bat. Each hitter has their own style and stance(though some styles can be argued better than others). It really comes down to what you like.

[SilviaSR20DET]

Is it just me but.. i was expecting a ****load of oversteer running stance coilovers with stock fronts and tanabe rear sway bars. It never oversteers at all.. i can't even kick the rear end out -_- but it may be because im at full soft on the coilovers. I also have a welded diff and pretty good tires.

[racepar1]

Is it just me but.. i was expecting a ****load of oversteer running stance coilovers with stock fronts and tanabe rear sway bars. It never oversteers at all.. i can't even kick the rear end out -_- but it may be because im at full soft on the coilovers. I also have a welded diff and pretty good tires.

If you can't get oversteer with that swaybar set-up then there is either something wrong with your set-up somewhere else or you are afraid to use the throttle. I get on-throttle oversteer with a cusco 28mm front sway and NO rear sway whatsoever. Not a lot of oversteer, but it is there. I am switching back to the stock front sway and the stock rear sway. Hopefully that will aid with the mild corner entry understeer and keep the on-throttle feel of the car manageable.

[nrgotenks]

This should give you a better idea...

S13


OEM Sway Bar Options

S13: (Abs/lsd package) Front bar 25mm, 21mm in the rear.
S13: (se without Abs/lsd package) Front bar 25mm, 17mm in the rear.
S13: (non se) Front bar 24mm, 15mm in the rear.

Aftermarket Sway Bars

Largus - Front bar 31.5mm, 27.5mm in the rear. 3 way adjustable front only. Tubular steel construction. Stock type endlinks. Largus includes new bushings with purchase. ^Will not clear SR20DET oversize oil pans (eg; greddy oil pan, not sure about ARC's). It will also not clear the Yashio Factory Tension Rod braces...
Whiteline - Front bar 27mm, 22mm in the rear. Solid steel construction and 3 way adjustable. Whiteline users their own specific blade type endlinks
Tanabe - Front bar 30.4mm, 22mm in the rear. Tubular chromoly construction. Stock type endlinks
Godspeed - Front bar 30.5mm, 28.29mm in the rear. Tubular chromoly construction. Stock type endlinks. Note this bar uses CRUSH bends instead of mandrel on higher quality bars.
Progress - Front bar 27mm, 22mm in the rear. 3 way Adjustable front & back. Solid steel construction. Progress supplies a heims type endlink on these swaybars.
Cusco - Front bar 28mm, 18mm in the rear.
Suspension techniques - Front bar 27mm, 20.64mm in the rear. Solid steel construction. Stock type endlinks
Intrax - Front bar 29mm, rear bar 22mm. Comes with greaseable bushings/brakets. Stock type endlinks. Adjustable.
Addco - Front bar 28.6mm, rear bar 22.2mm.

[racepar1]

The only sway bars on the above list worth buying are the progress bars. Anything else is a waste of money.

[niSm095]

The only sway bars on the above list worth buying are the progress bars. Anything else is a waste of money.

I think that's a bit of a stretch. I wouldn't call Whiteline sway bars a waste of money...the others on that list however I cant vouch for.

[OptionZero]

progress ones come with spherical bearings for the endlinks

[racepar1]

I think that's a bit of a stretch. I wouldn't call Whiteline sway bars a waste of money...the others on that list however I cant vouch for.

The progress bars come with spherical endlinks, the whiteline's come with janktastic urethane endlinks that look like they were designed by a 5 year old.

The progress bars have a wider range of adjustment.

The progress bars come out $34.18 CHEAPER and have more features!!!! (prices from progress online store and PDM racing)


NEED I SAY MORE!!!???

[jquest]

hey guys im new to this forum, but i like to think i know a bit about cars. now when we switched the rear hicas swaybar into our 240 you can tell there was a diff. the whole thing with combinations though if you hadn't notice yet is:
1. with a smoother ride like with not all the best road conditions in your town. the tien springs and kyb's will give you a smoother ride, what i got. thus the car will still have some body roll. the sway bars will make a better upgrade to help stabalize the car. so you will feel more of a difference.
2. now with coilovers, they are a lot stiffer. putting in swaybars are a plus but to really feel the difference your butt better be really sensitive. i ran a turbo neon and did coilovers then the full swaybar upgrade and the car never felt any different after the coilovers.
overall if you go with more agressive suspension all you are going to feel is that its alot stiffer and almost every crack in the road. and you won't feel a need for bigger swaybars.
if you plan on something a little less aggressive. the swaybar upgrades are going to make a big difference in the way the car feels. but there is a big performance difference in the cars.
plus/minus

my $0.20
john

[McRussellPants]

Dunno, I've driven cars with Tanabe and Progress bars and liked them.

But technically they're not ideal since countersteering cross weights your suspension and sway bars will make the difference in loading on the tires more exaggerated.

That being said i've been told cars with no bars suck to drive since they're lazy.

[McCoy]

The progress bars are hollow, the whiteline's are not. A hollow bar is the proper design for an aftermarket swaybar, solid bars are too heavy.

Not sure where you got that one at, but they are NOT hollow. I should know since I have a full set on my S13 and from the weight I can tell you that they are solid. Also the f/r set I had on my B13 (purchased in 2001)were also solid.

[Matej]

Use the money to buy something cooler.

[bl3ujay07]

where u cut and paste that one?

Exactly what i was thinking to myself and then, someone beat me to it. lol

[racepar1]

Not sure where you got that one at, but they are NOT hollow. I should know since I have a full set on my S13 and from the weight I can tell you that they are solid. Also the f/r set I had on my B13 (purchased in 2001)were also solid.

I forget where I got that info. As far as I know the s-13 bars are supposed to be 27mm front and 22mm rear and they are both hollow. The s-14 front is 30mm solid. Maybe I am wrong, but I thought I got that from NRR.

[Baron Fel]

I've got the tanabe bars with 9k/8k springs and it feels pretty solid. It was a huge improvement over stock bars... not a waste of money at all

[McCoy]

I forget where I got that info. As far as I know the s-13 bars are supposed to be 27mm front and 22mm rear and they are both hollow. The s-14 front is 30mm solid. Maybe I am wrong, but I thought I got that from NRR.
I just searched NRR, and the only one mentioning hallow bars + progress was you. I have a full S13 progress setup and both are solid.

Yes, the S14 bar is solid too.

____________________________
edit - I guess if my word is not good enough... from one of those wikibook sites for aftermarket swaybars for 240's... here (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Nissan_240SX_Performance_Modification/Sway_Bars)

For the S13...
Progress - Front bar 27mm, 22mm in the rear. 3 way Adjustable front & back. Solid steel construction. Progress supplies a heims type endlink on these swaybars.

And the S14...
Progress - Front bar 30mm, 24mm in the rear. 3 way Adjustable front & back. Solid steel construction. Progress supplies a heims type endlink on these swaybars.

[MrChow]

It depends how you set your car up.

I liked the way the car felt with a soft damper setting while running a whiteline rear sway.

Some people have their coils so stiff they don't notice/need one because the car has no roll as it. That's just a setup issue.

So I call bs on saying it's a waste.
Agreed and ditto for me too. I have whiteline F&R and my damper setting are like 4/3 feels great and is also great for spirited driving.

I also agreed with the setup issue. Some people that have not so sticky tires they just turn up there dampers to try to get rid of roll but then there losing grip for the suspension to work with the tires that'll lead to understeer or oversteer. Or they think that stiffer is better....

Anyways I love my whiteline rear sway bar. No regrets.

[spikNspan]

Just goes to show how much false information is being spewed about in this thread...

[shishcabobers]

Just goes to show how much false information is being spewed about in this thread...

so what makes you such an elitist?

[racepar1]

I just searched NRR, and the only one mentioning hallow bars + progress was you. I have a full S13 progress setup and both are solid.

Yes, the S14 bar is solid too.

____________________________
edit - I guess if my word is not good enough... from one of those wikibook sites for aftermarket swaybars for 240's... here (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Nissan_240SX_Performance_Modification/Sway_Bars)

For the S13...


And the S14...

I edited my post. I guess I was mistaken.

Agreed and ditto for me too. I have whiteline F&R and my damper setting are like 4/3 feels great and is also great for spirited driving.

I also agreed with the setup issue like some that have not so sticky tires they turn up there damper to get rid of roll but then there losing grip for the suspension to work with the tires that'll lead to understeer or oversteer.

Anyways I love my whiteline rear sway bar. No regrets.

Dampening has NOTHING to do with roll stiffness, sorry but you are both mistaken. IF you have actual good double or triple adjustable shocks, which almost nobody does, you can use the dampers to control the speed of the load transfer. Roll STIFFNESS however is determined pretty much solely by spring rates and sway bar rates.

[MrChow]

Dampening has NOTHING to do with roll stiffness, sorry but you are both mistaken. IF you have actual good double or triple adjustable shocks, which almost nobody does, you can use the dampers to control the speed of the load transfer. Roll STIFFNESS however is determined pretty much solely by spring rates and sway bar rates.
Um... clam down. My bad I typed that all fast and didn't read it. I edit here.

Agreed and ditto for me too. I have whiteline F&R and my damper setting are like 4/3 feels great and is also great for spirited driving.

I also agreed with the setup issue. Some people that have not so sticky tires they just turn up there dampers to try to get rid of roll but then there losing grip for the suspension to work with the tires that'll lead to understeer or oversteer. Or they think that stiffer is better....

Anyways I love my whiteline rear sway bar. No regrets.

There better? I wasn't trying to state a fact just my opinion and agree with zar.

[singlecamslam]

I personally like to keep stock sway bars and run my stance coils on the softest setting. I can keep more speed while drifting by increasing the grip. I think that makes sense.

[!Zar!]

Racepar1: If a car goes into a corner with without a swaybar and a single adjustment damper, it would roll though the corner quite a bit if set on full soft.

Now if the car with out a swaybar and the single adjustment damper were to be set on full stiff, it would resist more and not roll as much allowing it to stay flatter.

The downside to that is the car would not be able to maximize traction depending on the surface you're racing on due to being set too stiff.

Now if you have a car with a swaybar as well as the dampers set on full soft the car would stay flatter for a short time due to it taking longer to resist gas/fluid...

If the car has a sway bar and is fairly stiff, then that's pretty much defeating the purpose of a sway.

Of course everyone has different driving preferences.

Some people like to have a soft car for grip/drift.

Others like stiff.

PERSONALLY I love to drift with a stock sway up front and a whiteline set to the softer setting in rear while my dampers were set to something fairly on the soft side.

Fyi, this isn't an attack on you, nor am I disagreeing with anything you stated. I'm purely saying this to see if we are on the same page.

[MrChow]

^^
<3 you Mel =D

Thanks for the answer I wish I could think up =P

[SochBAT]

I've got ST fronts n rears. They're good at chopping boulders in half.

[racepar1]

Um... clam down. My bad I typed that all fast and didn't read it. I edit here.
There better? I wasn't trying to state a fact just my opinion and agree with zar.

I am calm. Your assesment of the effect of dampers and their relationship to total roll stiffness is fundamentally wrong and I was just pointing that out.

Racepar1: If a car goes into a corner with without a swaybar and a single adjustment damper, it would roll though the corner quite a bit if set on full soft.

Now if the car with out a swaybar and the single adjustment damper were to be set on full stiff, it would resist more and not roll as much allowing it to stay flatter.

The downside to that is the car would not be able to maximize traction depending on the surface you're racing on due to being set too stiff.

Now if you have a car with a swaybar as well as the dampers set on full soft the car would stay flatter for a short time due to it taking longer to resist gas/fluid...

If the car has a sway bar and is fairly stiff, then that's pretty much defeating the purpose of a sway.

Of course everyone has different driving preferences.

Some people like to have a soft car for grip/drift.

Others like stiff.

PERSONALLY I love to drift with a stock sway up front and a whiteline set to the softer setting in rear while my dampers were set to something fairly on the soft side.

Fyi, this isn't an attack on you, nor am I disagreeing with anything you stated. I'm purely saying this to see if we are on the same page.

That is not really how it works. The total amount of roll will be the same. Shocks do not prevent suspension movement, they control it (slow it down). The shock setting that works best without a sway bar will be almost exactly the same, if not EXACTLY the same, as the shock setting that works best with a sway bar. The guy running his dampers at full stiff, whether or not he has a sway bar, is a moron. The whiteline bar with the softer shock setting feels better because the bar encourages oversteer and the softer shock setting helps the car absorb the bumps "better" and makes it more stable. I underrstand that a stiffer rear bar will probably feel better for drifting to the vast majority of drifters out there. You linking the sway bar setting to the damper setting is the part that I disagree with. Sway bar settings and shock settings are COMPLETELY different and do not have much to do with eachother as shocks have no real effect on total roll stiffness. Shocks make the suspension FEEL stiffer as the suspension is initially more resistant to movement with stiffer damper settings, even though it is actually not any stiffer in reality, springs and swaybars actually make it stiffer. I am not trying to attack anyone, I just feel that the relationship between shocks, swaybars, and roll stiffness was misrepresented and wanted to present a more correct explanation of how it actually works.

[Brian]

I will get Tanabe ones.

I like the new color and new look as compared to OEM bars.

I wish I could get Largus, but apparently there are no more available!

[txrxs]

My front sway bar is just hanging down in the front because I lost the brackets. Drove it on the track and it felt exactly the same as before.

[!Zar!]

*posted above*
I agree with you.

My statement is true that it will only hold up in initial stiffness.

I just poorly worded what I said to sound as if was absolute.

[EDacIouSX]

I am calm. Your assesment of the effect of dampers and their relationship to total roll stiffness is fundamentally wrong and I was just pointing that out.



That is not really how it works. The total amount of roll will be the same. Shocks do not prevent suspension movement, they control it (slow it down). The shock setting that works best without a sway bar will be almost exactly the same, if not EXACTLY the same, as the shock setting that works best with a sway bar. The guy running his dampers at full stiff, whether or not he has a sway bar, is a moron. The whiteline bar with the softer shock setting feels better because the bar encourages oversteer and the softer shock setting helps the car absorb the bumps "better" and makes it more stable. I underrstand that a stiffer rear bar will probably feel better for drifting to the vast majority of drifters out there. You linking the sway bar setting to the damper setting is the part that I disagree with. Sway bar settings and shock settings are COMPLETELY different and do not have much to do with eachother as shocks have no real effect on total roll stiffness. Shocks make the suspension FEEL stiffer as the suspension is initially more resistant to movement with stiffer damper settings, even though it is actually not any stiffer in reality, springs and swaybars actually make it stiffer. I am not trying to attack anyone, I just feel that the relationship between shocks, swaybars, and roll stiffness was misrepresented and wanted to present a more correct explanation of how it actually works.

i think what you are trying to say is shocks deal with verticle movement as sways deal with horizontal movement of the car.








Oh yea, someone forgot to mention. Some sway bars come hollow while others are solid. so 30mm front solid is different than 30mm front hollow sway bar. also, the type of material used in the sway bar will also determine the characteristics of the bar. IE 30mm front strutbar that has a stiffer/better alloy than a 32mm front swaybar may outperform the 32mm because of better engineering/material

come on guys, simple physics!