25 Reasons Why John Sidney McCain III Sucks

[soreballz]

From here:
[Election 2008] 25 Reasons Why John Sidney McCain III Sucks - News - OC Weekly page 1 - OC Weekly (http://www.ocweekly.com/2008-10-23/news/john-sidney-mccain/1)


1. He’s a closet neocon.
According to Rolling Stone, McCain privately calls himself “the original neocon.” McCain began pushing for war with Iraq in the ‘90s, and within hours of the World Trade Center attacks he was on talk shows insisting Iraq was developing WMDs. Pre-war, he repeatedly stated we would win easily. Later, after the war became a disaster, McCain pretended he’d always been against it. “The American people were led to believe this could be some kind of day at the beach,” he said in 2006, “which many of us fully understood from the beginning would be a very, very difficult undertaking.”

2. Elect McCain, and you can expect more pointless, bloody wars.
McCain clearly has his sights set on Iran, for starters. Retired general John H. Johns, McCain’s former friend, says if McCain’s elected, he’ll be “Bush on steroids... He puts military at the top of foreign policy rather than diplomacy.”

3. He doesn’t know when to hold ’em or fold ’em.
McCain’s got a gambling jones. He blows thousands per game playing craps. John Weaver, McCain’s former chief strategist, told Time, “Enjoying craps opens up a window on a central thread constant in John’s life... Taking a chance, playing against the odds.” Suddenly it makes sense why McCain chose a moose-hunting beauty queen for his running mate: It was a huge gamble. We can’t risk McCain “rolling snake eyes” with America’s future.

4. He’ll destroy what’s left of the economy.
McCain has admitted that “economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should.” With the economy so grim that every morning you pray your corner ATM still dispenses cash, do you want to hand things over to a guy who declared this March he’s “always for less regulation”? One of the Keating Five? Mister “The fundamentals of our economy are strong”? Elect McCain, and blame yourself when your family is staying warm by burning your useless checkbooks.

5. That awful woman.
I don’t even want to get started on Sarah Palin, or this list will quickly turn into 25 reasons why she sucks. Let me just say that Palin is so horrible that people who like her are a danger to themselves and others, and shouldn’t be allowed to walk around without protective headgear.

6. When Karl Rove says your campaign’s lies have gone too far, you’ve gone too far.
McCain’s running a revoltingly sleazy campaign, but it’ll be tough to sink lower than his commercial suggesting Obama wanted to teach kindergartners about sex. (“Learning about sex before learning to read?”) The ad implies teachers would be telling kids how to find the G-spot before naptime, but the bill Obama co-sponsored would actually have focused on age-appropriate topics like how to avoid molestation. Imagine if Obama’s ad people were willing to twist the truth like that: “John McCain doesn’t want little kids to know about the dangers of pedophiles. Does John McCain like pedophiles?”

7. He’s Charles Keating Jr.’s ex-BFF.
In the late ‘80s, Charles Keating Jr., owner of Irvine-based Lincoln Savings and Loan, also owned McCain’s ass. McCain and four other senators (the infamous “Keating Five”) received ample campaign contributions from Keating. McCain partied like a pimp on Keating’s dime, enjoying what he called “Charlie Keating’s Shangri-La.” Keating actually boasted to reporters about buying McCain’s loyalty. The Keating Five pressured regulators to overlook Keating’s illegal activities, leading to a bank failure costing taxpayers over $120 billion by some estimates. It was a dress rehearsal for our current horror show, with McCain at center stage. McCain officially cut ties to Keating in 1987. His wife’s business partnership with Keating lasted until 1998, but McCain insists he didn’t know.

8. He agrees with Bush 95 percent of the time.
McCain’s trying to distance himself from the unpopular Bush, but in 2007 McCain voted with Bush 95 percent of the time, according to Factcheck.org. Seriously, your dog doesn’t even agree with you 95 percent of the time.

9. He’s very old.
Things McCain is older than: Life Magazine, World War II, the Golden Gate Bridge and Keith Richards. In 2000, McCain himself suggested he’d be too old to run by 2008, saying, “I think I might be ready to go down to the old soldiers’ home.”

10. He’s in lousy health.
He’s endured four bouts of malignant melanoma, the deadliest form of skin cancer. Ominously, McCain refuses to allow full access to his medical records.

11. His age and health really matter.
It’s not unlikely McCain would croak in office. Then we’d be stuck with Palin, and W’s administration would seem like the good old days.

12. He’s such an asshole, other Republicans hate him.
Various Republican senators have described McCain tantrums where he shouts profanity and shoves people. “It was incidents of irrational behavior,” said Bob Smith. John LeBoutillier calls McCain a “vicious person,” adding, “Nearly all the Republican senators endorsed Bush because they knew McCain from serving with him in the Senate.” Thad Cochran claims that during 1987 diplomatic talks in Nicaragua, McCain went nuts and grabbed a Sandinista official. This January, Cochran said, “The thought of [McCain] being president sends a cold chill down my spine.” (Cochran has since endorsed McCain. You can’t really blame him... would you want to be on McCain’s bad side?)

13. Seriously, he’s a total asshole.
“At least I don’t plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you cunt.” —McCain to his wife in 1992, in full earshot of reporters, after she joked about his thinning hair.

14. Wow, is he an asshole.
“Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because Janet Reno is her father.” —A McCain joke from 1998. (Karma in action: Little Chelsea grew up to be a stone fox, while the once-handsome McCain now has a head like a moldy biscuit.)

15. He’s an asshole, asshole, asshole.
When McCain returned from Vietnam, his then-wife had been in an accident that left her five inches shorter and on crutches. While the mother of his children was undergoing painful physical therapy, McCain cheated on her and eventually dumped her for a younger, prettier and richer girl (the current Mrs. McCain).

16. Did we mention he’s an asshole?
McCain has repeatedly clashed with families of POW-MIAs, and in 1996 one clash turned particularly ugly. A woman in a wheelchair equipped with portable oxygen approached him to ask about her son. Witnesses say McCain raised his arm to strike her before shoving her wheelchair away. Forget running the country, you shouldn’t trust McCain to watch your cat.

17. No abortions for you.
McCain has said, “I do not support Roe v. Wade. It should be overturned.” Palin, meanwhile, wouldn’t let you have an abortion even if your dad raped you.

18. If McCain wins, expect more Katrinas.
McCain swears he’d never mismanage a disaster response like Bush mismanaged Katrina. But after Katrina, McCain actually voted against emergency funding for Louisiana and Medicaid and unemployment for Katrina victims. (And where was McCain the day Katrina hit? In Arizona, celebrating his birthday with Bush. Cameras captured the pair cutting into a big cake and grinning like newlyweds.)

19. He’s a self-described “computer illiterate.”
In an age when a cyber-terrorist attack could cripple America, should we elect a dude who doesn’t understand what the kids are doing with those infernal machines?

20. “Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.”
McCain criticized Obama for publicly discussing his plans for Pakistan... after McCain announced his own aggressive intentions toward Iran in song form.

21. His “senior moments.”
McCain’s had troubling memory lapses. He referred to the “Iraq/Pakistan border,” forgetting Iran is between those countries. He addressed a rally as “my fellow prisoners,” suggesting he may be having ‘Nam flashbacks on the campaign trail. In an interview, he mistook Spanish Prime Minister Zapatero for the head of a Latin American dictatorship, refusing to say if he would meet with him.


22. His environmentalist talk is a bunch of greenhouse gas.
He told The Orange County Register “addressing climate change effectively” is one way he’ll distinguish his administration from Bush’s. But in 2007, McCain earned a zero score from the League of Conservation Voters, and if he dies in office, we’ll be stuck with Ms. Drill-Baby-Drill.

23. He “palled around with terrorists.”
In the ‘80s, McCain was on the advisory board of the American branch of the World Anti-Communist League, an ultra-conservative group linked to Nazi collaborators and Central American death squads. McCain claims he resigned in 1984, but the group has no record of his ever leaving. And McCain has the stones to attack Obama for briefly serving on an educational board with a ‘60s radical-turned-tweedy professor?

24. He supports torture.
In 2007, McCain rightly denounced waterboarding as torture, noting that it was used in the Spanish Inquisition. But he later hailed Bush for vetoing an anti-waterboarding bill, and voted against it himself. McCain’s been tortured himself, he knows firsthand how horrible it is... and he supports torture.

25. Mr. “Straight Talk” has no integrity.
McCain has cozied up to the fundamentalists he once dismissed as “agents of intolerance.” He’s pushed for the tax cuts and oil drilling he once opposed. He’s hired the guys who sank his 2000 presidential bid with a whisper campaign about his “illegitimate black child”—the same guys he once said deserve a “special place in hell.” And, oh yeah, he now supports torture. During McCain’s August appearance at OC’s Saddleback Church, he described himself as a “very imperfect person.” Well, at least we know he’s honest about something.



Discuss.
:hide:

[niSm095]

kind of a liberal slant on that one...either way. he's a d-bag. I hate politics.

[Gnnr]

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e367/gambit25/boo.jpg

[HalveBlue]

What's there to discuss?

The race is already decided. Obama will win.

It never mattered what McCain stood for, as much as what he stood against. He was unable to distance himself enough from Bush and his policies.

McCain is seen simply too much like Bush. And nobody wants at least another 4 years of Bush's policies.

Think about it, in the chronicles of history the Bush administration will forever be associated with the following: the war in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan, failures to care properly for those Soldier injured in those wars, the Patriot Act, Hurricane Katrina (the arguably greatest natural disaster in American history), Sept. 11th, A gas hike from $1.25 to $4.00 a gallon, an economic disaster, distancing itself from every other Western nation, lying and cheating the American people, a widening gap between rich and poor (the middle class is disappearing).

Face it, there's a huge demographic shift going on in this country now and A LOT of things have happened since 2000 that have shaped young people's minds. Young people that would have graduated college and would now be old enough to start making babies, starting families, you know, become established. I don't know any of them that are saying 2008 is exactly the way I imagined it to be.

Who's in the mood for more of the last 8 years? Not me. And not anybody I know either.

[98s14inaz]

From here:
[Election 2008] 25 Reasons Why John Sidney McCain III Sucks - News - OC Weekly page 1 - OC Weekly (http://www.ocweekly.com/2008-10-23/news/john-sidney-mccain/1)





Discuss.
:hide:

How cute, did you get that in an email and then post it here?

How about citing some sources for some of those accusations instead of this liberal diarrhea of the mouth. Any idiot can cut and paste. Discuss.

[RJF]

I could post 100 reasons why Barrack Hussein Obama sucks, except my reasons would be based on facts.

[Matej]

Haha the republicans are here.

How about you disprove all 25 of those statements with facts?

[RJF]

How about you name some real accomplishments for Obama? My previous challenge in another thread has gone unanswered, except for some BS Illinois senate laws or resolutions. What has he done for this country?

[Matej]

Nothing.

And nothing is better than McCain's "accomplishments" in my book, because nothing at least doesn't affect the country and its people in a negative manner.

[spikNspan]

LOL, here we go again.
:jerkit:

And it's not about what he has done, but what he will do.

[RJF]

And it's not about what he has done, but what he will do.

Raise taxes and kill the economy....nice plan for the future.


Explain to me exactly what he is going to do?

[Matej]

Raise taxes and kill the economy....nice plan for the future.


Explain to me exactly what he is going to do?
http://www.stefanhayden.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/obama_mccain_taxcut.gif

INCOME TAX

Overall Strategy
OBAMA: progressive taxation, tax poor/middle classes less and upper class more, stop wasting billions in Iraq
MCCAIN: flat taxation - leave tax cuts for upper class, then eventually move towards taxing all taxpayers at same rate, keep wasting billions in Iraq
Drac: Progressive taxation is simply more reasonable than flat taxation. Obama's plan will generate more tax revenue and support a more equitable distribution of wealth. McCain's revenue reducing tax policy contrasts with his promise to stay in Iraq as long as he's willing to produce intelligence which states there are a few people running around Iraq calling themselves al Qaeda. How can he reconcile these dogmatic approaches? Obamas plan just makes more sense (not that it is the perfect plan, just that it's better than McCains which isnt saying much at all).

Specifics:

under $75k
OBAMA: cut taxes
MCAIN: same
Drac: cutting taxes for those who's taxes represent the highest % of disposable income currently makes better sense than not doing so. Positively effects millions of lives while not costing the gov't much revenue.

$75k-$250k
OBAMA: same
MCCAIN: same
Drac: candidates agree

$250k+
OBAMA: raise by 3%
MCCAIN: same
Drac: raising more tax revenue by raising the tax rate on the wealthiest 1% of americans by 3% is a good idea.

SENIOR CITIZENS <$50k
OBAMA: eliminate taxes
MCCAIN: same
Drac: Drac: eliminating taxes for the elderly frees up their money and takes financial burden from families who have to support their aging relatives.

PAYROLL TAX
OBAMA: eliminate cap for those making over $250k per year, provide $500/$1000 credits to reduce payroll tax liability
MCCAIN: same
Drac: raising the cap will have negative consequences on the people making over $250k (about 1% of workers), but it will increase tax revenue. this is necessary to provide the tax credits to effectively lower payroll tax liability of most americans.

CAPITAL GAINS TAX
OBAMA: 20%
MCCAIN: 15%
Drac: We are currently on the left side of the laffer curve, and studies show raising capital gains tax to 20% would increase revenue without discouraging investment. Ignoring this is a bad idea, especially given McCain's desire to continue wasteful spending while siumultaneosly reducing tax revenue, particularly the wasteful Iraq war he seeks to prolong indefinitely. By raising the tax back to 20% some studies estimate that an additional $100 billion in revenue could be generated for the federal government without reducing investment.

SPENDING CUTS
While Obama and McCain both propose their fair share of spending cuts, and Obama has more spending planned than McCain domestically, these facts are overshadowed because McCain wants to continue spending billions on the Iraq war and wishes to increase military spending to continue expanding the war on terror. As far as offering a balanced approach to budgeting Obama is clearly the more desirable candidate.

[RJF]

How about BHO's plans to raise Capital Gains taxes? And Corporate taxes?

Who do you think creates jobs? If I were a corporation, I would outsource jobs overseas and incorporate my company in Bermuda to avoid those higher taxes.

His plans are going to cost jobs.

[Matej]

Corporations are outsourcing domestic jobs mainly because of unions and labor laws. Unions are one of the main reasons why domestic automakers are having a hard time, there have been countless White House meetings about this. It would be far from cost effective to outsource just to avoid slightly higher taxes.

[Agamemnon]

support a more equitable distribution of wealth

And thats where I get off the Obama train.

[spikNspan]

Oh man, I have so many things to say back, but there's no point in arguing on this forum anymore so I'll just watch and laugh.

keep :jerkit: guys

[DOOK]

guess what Obama supporters?

He's not the second coming...

guess what McCain supporters?

He's not either

guess what?

They are both so full of shit it's rediculous

[Matej]

Yeah I don't even care for Obama.
The only reason I defend him is because I can't stand McCain, I cringe when I imagine that man as the head of a country.
Thanks for posting the list soreballz.

[raz0rbladez909]

So since none of us seem to like either one of these guys why vote for either? I honestly don't know how they got so popular in the first place but its pathetic how we say "I'm voting for this one because i can't stand the other" Vote for a third party or something but don't help either one if you don't like them. I can't wait til this bullshit is over. :mephfawk:politics:mephfawk:

[240trainee]

Yeah I don't even care for Obama.
The only reason I defend him is because I can't stand McCain, I cringe when I imagine that man as the head of a country.


Yep, I agree with this 100%

[Agamemnon]

So since none of us seem to like either one of these guys why vote for either? I honestly don't know how they got so popular in the first place but its pathetic how we say "I'm voting for this one because i can't stand the other" Vote for a third party or something but don't help either one if you don't like them. I can't wait til this bullshit is over. :mephfawk:politics:mephfawk:

Because that would just throw away your vote. Vote for the lesser of two evils.

[DOOK]

Because that would just throw away your vote. Vote for the lesser of two evils.


so is that like saying... well I'm going to have to kill myself... will it be by gunshot or overdose?

retarded logic

[HalveBlue]

So since none of us seem to like either one of these guys why vote for either? I honestly don't know how they got so popular in the first place but its pathetic how we say "I'm voting for this one because i can't stand the other" Vote for a third party or something but don't help either one if you don't like them. I can't wait til this bullshit is over. :mephfawk:politics:mephfawk:

The two party race is a direct consequence of the structure of America's political system. The way the system operates allows to parties to effectively monopolize the political process from federal level political posts all the way down to local government positions.

The Republican and Democratic Parties are like two huge corporations that are so equally rich and powerful that they can never win clear dominance over one another. But they are brutally quick and efficient to erradicate, or in rare cases reduce to political insignificance, any independent or third party political movements that vie to reduce their market share: YOU!

It's not that there aren't better candidates out there. It's that they can't consistently manage to grapple enough of the market share away from the two big parties to stay alive. The winner-take-all system found in the American electoral system isn't conducive towards creating a mult-party Congress like you'd find in many other democratic countries.

Until another political party can consistently receive 30% in elections nothing will change and you'll continue to see more or less only Democratic or Republican politicians in office. The inevitable consequence of this process is the further ingraining of traditional party values and platforms in the American political process -no matter how out of touch with reality- and the stifling of intelligent political discourse.

[Agamemnon]

so is that like saying... well I'm going to have to kill myself... will it be by gunshot or overdose?

retarded logicThat's an easy one. Overdose. You just said you have to kill your self. President has to be elected. Choose the lesser of two evils.

If you think a third party will ever get elected, then you're the pie in the sky retard.

[Phlip]

Don't forget to say "Barack Hussein Obama," just the way McCain taught you to, then stand behind the fact that once his sheep were afraid, the way BUSH taught them to be, took the high road of "repudiating" anyone who does so.
Don't let that stop you.
McCain and Palin will join you by talking about "palling around with terrorists," ignoring that McCain has "palled around" with terrorists of his own and Palin's own husband was a member of a group who tried to secede. Keep saying "Barack Hussein Obama" so people that won't care enough to look for more information will think that he is an Arab, which John McCain suggested makes him NOT a "decent, family man." Do what you must to keep him out of office, you must continue to protect the right of the uber rich to continue to fuck those who must live without.

Gentlemen, that is colloquially known as "throwing rocks and hiding your hands."
As a child, when caught doing shit like this, my parents BEAT MY ASS... I know better than to do this shit now. The asswhooping this time comes in the form of a vote against of a McCain/Palin presidency.


Personally, as high profile GOP people (not shit talkers on the internet who believe every morsel of bullshit fed to them in stump speeches) continue to bail on McCain, largely BECAUSE of Palin, I am looking for GWB to try something drastic, like stupidly bombing another country or something like that.
However, with W's fleeting popularity, the best thing he could do for a McCaint victory is to support Obama.

[Omarius Maximus]

How about BHO's plans to raise Capital Gains taxes? And Corporate taxes?

Who do you think creates jobs? If I were a corporation, I would outsource jobs overseas and incorporate my company in Bermuda to avoid those higher taxes.

His plans are going to cost jobs.

Sorry dude, it's hard to take you seriously when you have that ridiculous sig. Looks like someone's been duped by Rethuglican talking points. It's the McCarthy/Red Scare era all over again.

[murda-c]

The fact that no one believes a third party will ever get elected is probably the main reason one never is.

[Phlip]

The fact that no one believes a third party will ever get elected is probably the main reason one never is.
The onus of proving one's self electable falls squarely on the candidate looking to be elected.
Losing your own party's primary is a step AGAINST that. Inability to maintain a profile high enough to compete against the big dogs is the next.

[ESmorz]

http://www.retrotuckshopsweetsdirect.co.uk/images/hancocks%20040.jpg

[ranger240]

"With the economy so grim that every morning you pray your corner ATM still dispenses cash"


all you need to read to understand how under-informed and stupid the author is. FDIC 250k deposit insurance? whats that?

[raz0rbladez909]

The fact that no one believes a third party will ever get elected is probably the main reason one never is.

Quoted for truth, if enough people stopped going with the traditional Dem/Rep bullshit maybe we would actually get a "Change" because as long as one of the major two get into office there isn't shit that will "Change".

[Matej]

all you need to read to understand how under-informed and stupid the author is. FDIC 250k deposit insurance? whats that?
Dramatization.

Middle school English.

[RJF]

He truly believes in redistribution of wealth.

Interview from 2001

iivL4c_3pck

[Phlip]

Quoted for truth, if enough people stopped going with the traditional Dem/Rep bullshit maybe we would actually get a "Change" because as long as one of the major two get into office there isn't shit that will "Change".
If I had read this 10-12 months ago, I would be more inclined to believe it, but the dirty tricks being employed by one side here, the side taking the side of those looking to maintain the upper hand for those who have it now, common sense/"country first" be damned is an act of desperation... REPEATED acts of desperation. It either means that, as Sam Cooke once said "change is gonna come," or shit is about to get VERY ugly before it will get any better, THEN maybe someone will actually take a third party seriously... In such, change STILL comes.
Different means to an ends.

[SexPanda]

Honestly.........

who the fuck cares? Same shit, different face. Im voting for McCain simply because I hate liberals. They always talk a big game, but 99% of them are just asshats, in contrast to only 98.99% of conservatives.

[UfoZ8myCow]

Blah Blah Blah

Everyone knows Obama is going to win already so can we stop with the political threads already??????? Would I vote for him? Not in a million years. But I live in California, a place where my vote wont count for shit because this state hasnt been won by a Republican once in my entire lifetime. So I just wont vote, and Jon Stewart will be the only thing keeping me sane until 2012.

[innovation]

George W Bush will go down in history as the greatest president in history.

[innovation]

^^ Want to know why? Because he f*cked it up so badly that he made it possible for an African American to be elected as president. Thats pretty cool no. In the course of 55+ years we went from a segragated country to inevitably having a Black president.
(Btw I think it is awesome that people can see past racial differences)


P.S. Im voting for McCain. Not that it will do me any good since I live in California (F'ing democrats)

[ronmcdon]

SPENDING CUTS
While Obama and McCain both propose their fair share of spending cuts, and Obama has more spending planned than McCain domestically, these facts are overshadowed because McCain wants to continue spending billions on the Iraq war and wishes to increase military spending to continue expanding the war on terror. As far as offering a balanced approach to budgeting Obama is clearly the more desirable candidate.

what I find most uncomfortable about about Obama's spending, is that idea about free healthcare for everyone. regardless of whether or not you find that idea personally palatable, the fact remains that it's going to be extremely expensive if it flies. it's really a bit too ambitious, if not downright disastrous in this day and age.

About the war, I admit I do agree with Obama's stance a bit more. however, I don't think it's plausible we'll be pulling out of the Afghan mess anytime soon, regardless of whomever gets elected.

With regards to taxation, I'm not so sure there should be any further tax decreases period given the deficit we're in. I'm also a bit worried about increasing the taxes 8-11% for businesses making 25k-1mil. If that's on revenue, it could be a huge problem for those who don't even make a 10% profit margin. seriously, a company making even 1 mil profit, isn't all that big. I wish Obama would have just left that alone. with the economy struggling the way it's projected to be, that isn't going to be doing anyone favors.

That being said, I'll throw my vote for the Libertarian party. Where I live in CA, it's going D anyhow with the votes. I don't like McCain anymore than I like Obama, but I will say I'm very disappointed in McCain's performance. I would have much preferred that he put up a good fight instead of the farce that his campaign has become.

[Agamemnon]

what I find most uncomfortable about about Obama's spending, is that idea about free healthcare for everyone. regardless of whether or not you find that idea personally palatable, the fact remains that it's going to be extremely expensive if it flies. it's really a bit too ambitious, if not downright disastrous in this day and age.

About the war, I admit I do agree with Obama's stance a bit more. however, I don't think it's plausible we'll be pulling out of the Afghan mess anytime soon, regardless of whomever gets elected.

With regards to taxation, I'm not so sure there should be any further tax decreases period given the deficit we're in. I'm also a bit worried about increasing the taxes 8-11% for businesses making 25k-1mil. If that's on revenue, it could be a huge problem for those who don't even make a 10% profit margin. seriously, a company making even 1 mil profit, isn't all that big. I wish Obama would have just left that alone. with the economy struggling the way it's projected to be, that isn't going to be doing anyone favors.

That being said, I'll throw my vote for the Libertarian party. Where I live in CA, it's going D anyhow with the votes. I don't like McCain anymore than I like Obama, but I will say I'm very disappointed in McCain's performance. I would have much preferred that he put up a good fight instead of the farce that his campaign has become.
Well said good sir!

Obama's plan for the economy and how it relates to small business will be the straw that broke the donkey's(no pun intended) back.

[SochBAT]

Ron Paul!!!

[fromxtor]

^^Exactly, I wrote him in a month or so ago and was very suprised to see quite a few other people I had never heard of running. Don't like McCain/Obama vote for someone else.

Something I did find odd about that jibberish the OP posted was a Chelsea Clinton referrence...she is not a stone fox by any means.

[WanganRunner]

The whole "Barack Hussein Obama" thing really pisses me off.

What does it matter what the guy's middle name is? Do you and the conservative columnists that so often invoke that moniker have so little of substance to deliver that you have to rely on an underhanded jab based on the man's middle name?


The GOP is going to be hugely re-organized following their upcoming crushing defeat. The social conservative are going to get hung out to dry as the party refocuses on capturing fiscally conservative "Blue Dog" Democrats. The GOP of Karl Rove and Dick Cheney is effectively dead, you'd better be able to find yourself a place in a new GOP that more closely resembles the "Rockefeller Republicans" or else you'll find yourself marginalized.

Social conservatism is dead in America.

[DOOK]

That's an easy one. Overdose. You just said you have to kill your self. President has to be elected. Choose the lesser of two evils.

If you think a third party will ever get elected, then you're the pie in the sky retard.

how about not voting at all when you don't feel either candidate is worth a damn? That way you don't waste your vote or contribute to stupidity.

[KA24DESOneThree]

The GOP is going to be hugely re-organized following their upcoming crushing defeat. The social conservative are going to get hung out to dry as the party refocuses on capturing fiscally conservative "Blue Dog" Democrats. The GOP of Karl Rove and Dick Cheney is effectively dead, you'd better be able to find yourself a place in a new GOP that more closely resembles the "Rockefeller Republicans" or else you'll find yourself marginalized.

Social conservatism is dead in America.

Oh no, my friend, social conservatism is NOT dead in America. Not by a long shot. There are too many born-agains and bible-thumpers out there to allow social conservatism to die. I live in a bastion of conservativism with a bunch of Orange County transplantees. It sickens me.

You would be appalled by how many "Yes on 8" signs I see around here. (For those who don't know, Yes on Proposition 8 in California means that you want to add an amendment to the state constitution banning gay marriage.) Churches around here are gigantic, and the number of attendees corresponds.

This country was founded as a secular country. A quick look through the Constitution yields no mention of god other than "in the Year of our Lord." The neoconservative, socially very conservative Republicans do not understand this. They are attempting, through legislation, to force their religion upon us. They are attempting to force their morality on us. They are doing exactly that which caused the first pilgrims to make their way here.

The social conservatives will probably continue to dominate the GOP, but there will be a defection of the social liberals/fiscal conservatives to the Libertarian party, a new version of the Democratic-Republican party, or even the Democratic party. The Libertarians are a bit too hardcore for anyone who's been a member of the GOP for a while; they've gotten used to spreading "freedom" and big military spending.

John McCain is a poor choice for president because he doesn't believe in the Constitution, plain and simple. The same goes for Barrack Obama. This country needs no more deviations from the plan.

[mRclARK1]

...This country was founded as a secular country...

My beliefs, yours and anyone else's notwithstanding, that's a fairly hard arguement to make. Nearly all of the founding fathers and names who signed the decleration of Independence were professing Christians, or of a very Christian backround simply because of the time period they lived in.

Also: "One nation under God." "In God we Trust." etc... I just don't see how someone can make that arguement. Not to mention many laws are based and referenced to religious beliefs. The United States is most certainly a secular nation now, but its founding was not. Whether directly or indirectly, intentionally or unintentionally doesn't really matter.

[WanganRunner]

Oh no, my friend, social conservatism is NOT dead in America. Not by a long shot. There are too many born-agains and bible-thumpers out there to allow social conservatism to die. I live in a bastion of conservativism with a bunch of Orange County transplantees. It sickens me.

You would be appalled by how many "Yes on 8" signs I see around here. (For those who don't know, Yes on Proposition 8 in California means that you want to add an amendment to the state constitution banning gay marriage.) Churches around here are gigantic, and the number of attendees corresponds.

This country was founded as a secular country. A quick look through the Constitution yields no mention of god other than "in the Year of our Lord." The neoconservative, socially very conservative Republicans do not understand this. They are attempting, through legislation, to force their religion upon us. They are attempting to force their morality on us. They are doing exactly that which caused the first pilgrims to make their way here.

The social conservatives will probably continue to dominate the GOP, but there will be a defection of the social liberals/fiscal conservatives to the Libertarian party, a new version of the Democratic-Republican party, or even the Democratic party. The Libertarians are a bit too hardcore for anyone who's been a member of the GOP for a while; they've gotten used to spreading "freedom" and big military spending.

John McCain is a poor choice for president because he doesn't believe in the Constitution, plain and simple. The same goes for Barrack Obama. This country needs no more deviations from the plan.



I didn't mean to say that I thought that social conservatism as a movement was dead, but I DO believe that they will no longer be at the helm of a major party.

They have allowed themselves to become too tightly controlled by a few extremists and thus rendered themselves too unpalatable for mainstream America. Centrist America is still who decides Presidential elections, by and large. Palin's negative influence on the GOP campaign is proof positive of this. "Rally the Base" doesn't work anymore in the GOP as the base is too fractured and the religious right isn't the huge majority that they used to be.

They'll still be there, but they won't be putting anymore of their guys in the White House, at least not in the foreseeable future.



As for the US being a "secular nation", that all depends on one's reading of the establishment clause, although most readings do generally reach the conclusion that legislation based on religious principle is unconstitutional.

Everything about how religion interacts with government in the United States is based on interpretations of the establishment clause. The fact that various founding fathers may have been Christian is immaterial, it has to be in the documents.

[Phlip]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."
Anyone?
Anyone at all?

[98s14inaz]

Haha the republicans are here.

How about you disprove all 25 of those statements with facts?

I don't have to. One thing that is nice about America right now is that you are innocent until proven guilty. If you are going to charge someone or accuse them of something the burden is on the accuser to prove it. The socialist countries you liberals love, the system works the other way.

[Grendel]

You would be appalled by how many "Yes on 8" signs I see around here. (For those who don't know, Yes on Proposition 8 in California means that you want to add an amendment to the state constitution banning gay marriage.) Churches around here are gigantic, and the number of attendees corresponds.

I don't even understand why gay marriage is an issue. For a country full of people running around saying freedom this and freedom that, why can't two people in love get married?

I was talking to some guy at work about this, he is a pretty religious dude. He was saying how he doesn't think it would be right for two dudes to get married and raise a kid, because the kid might turn out to be gay. Said some garbage about afraid if his son is exposed to gay people, he might turn gay too.

Some people... wow. I sure am glad I got stationed in the south. :(

[98s14inaz]

guess what Obama supporters?

He's not the second coming...

guess what McCain supporters?

He's not either

guess what?

They are both so full of shit it's rediculous

Personally I want a "none of the above" choice and just start over with new candidates. Since we can't have that I've found the biggest difference between the candidates...one is a socialist. I cannot vote for Obama.

[98s14inaz]

You would be appalled by how many "Yes on 8" signs I see around here. (For those who don't know, Yes on Proposition 8 in California means that you want to add an amendment to the state constitution banning gay marriage.) Churches around here are gigantic, and the number of attendees corresponds.


It's a common misconception that religion has a large hand in this. In all honesty they don't, they don't have the money to back such initiatives. The real bad guys here are the businesses that don't want to pay for benefits when civil unions are officially recognized. Religion is used as a disguise, no one would vote for this nonsense if they knew big business was behind it. Just ask yourself, "is this good for the company" and you will see the truth.

[FaLKoN240]

I CAN'T WAIT TIL THIS ELECTION BULLSHIT IS OVER SO I CAN STOP SEEING THREADS LIKE THESE AS "HOT TOPICS"

seriously.

[stiizy]

^^ :werd:


I hate all these shits too

[Grendel]

I CAN'T WAIT TIL THIS ELECTION BULLSHIT IS OVER SO I CAN STOP SEEING THREADS LIKE THESE AS "HOT TOPICS"

seriously.

Yea because off topic is full of important threads like "what did you eat for dinner" or "hey look at my pink nikes!"

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Don't forget to say "Barack Hussein Obama," just the way McCain taught you to, then stand behind the fact that once his sheep were afraid, the way BUSH taught them to be, took the high road of "repudiating" anyone who does so.
Don't let that stop you.
McCain and Palin will join you by talking about "palling around with terrorists," ignoring that McCain has "palled around" with terrorists of his own and Palin's own husband was a member of a group who tried to secede. Keep saying "Barack Hussein Obama" so people that won't care enough to look for more information will think that he is an Arab, which John McCain suggested makes him NOT a "decent, family man." Do what you must to keep him out of office, you must continue to protect the right of the uber rich to continue to fuck those who must live without.

Gentlemen, that is colloquially known as "throwing rocks and hiding your hands."
As a child, when caught doing shit like this, my parents BEAT MY ASS... I know better than to do this shit now. The asswhooping this time comes in the form of a vote against of a McCain/Palin presidency.


Personally, as high profile GOP people (not shit talkers on the internet who believe every morsel of bullshit fed to them in stump speeches) continue to bail on McCain, largely BECAUSE of Palin, I am looking for GWB to try something drastic, like stupidly bombing another country or something like that.
However, with W's fleeting popularity, the best thing he could do for a McCaint victory is to support Obama.
Keep saying "Barack Hussein Obama" because hating on a Arab will make you feel better inside instead of hating a black guy because most are closet racists.

[98s14inaz]

Keep saying "Barack Hussein Obama" because hating on a Arab will make you feel better inside instead of hating a black guy because most are closet racists.

I hate everyone equally. I DO NOT hate him because he's black or a closet arab. I hate him because he is a socialist. The same kind of hate I have for Ted Kennedy...he's as white as they come.

This is so typical though, "if whitey doesn't vote for the black guy he's a racist". I'm offended by that generalization.

[exitspeed]

Yea because off topic is full of important threads like "what did you eat for dinner" or "hey look at my pink nikes!"

While they might not be more important in the whole skeem of things, at least they are not dividing us.

Politics and religion are things that shouldn't be discussed on car forums IMO.

[98s14inaz]

While they might not be more important in the whole skeem of things, at least they are not dividing us.

Politics and religion are things that shouldn't be discussed on car forums IMO.
Goes to show how much people are obsessing about this stuff. I bet there is more activity in offtopic political threads than there is on the rest of the board.

[opponheimer]

I'm in WV, nearly everyone (dem and republican) here is an ignorant fucking prejudice redneck, real sad...

They believe the earth is 6000 years old
man walked with dinosaurs
and women should mother their rape children
only in WV baby, where unemployment is like 30% lol


I cast my absentee ballot early, OBAMA!

[Matej]

I don't have to. One thing that is nice about America right now is that you are innocent until proven guilty. If you are going to charge someone or accuse them of something the burden is on the accuser to prove it.
Hey it seems to be working fine for the government. WMD's in Iraq anyone? Saddam responsible for 9/11? Democrats blaming the economy on the republicans, and vice versa. Even the political campaigns are continuously spewing out accusations based on only rumors.

[Phlip]

Hey it seems to be working fine for the government. WMD's in Iraq anyone? Saddam responsible for 9/11? Democrats blaming the economy on the republicans, and vice versa. Even the political campaigns are continuously spewing out accusations based on only rumors.
The court of public opinion works the other way around.

[Ryzin]

How cute, did you get that in an email and then post it here?

How about citing some sources for some of those accusations instead of this liberal diarrhea of the mouth. Any idiot can cut and paste. Discuss.

Whats your email address? I have a great article from Rolling Stone by Tim Dickinson. Its too big to paste here, hope that doesn't scare you away.

[KA24DESOneThree]

It's a common misconception that religion has a large hand in this. In all honesty they don't, they don't have the money to back such initiatives. The real bad guys here are the businesses that don't want to pay for benefits when civil unions are officially recognized. Religion is used as a disguise, no one would vote for this nonsense if they knew big business was behind it. Just ask yourself, "is this good for the company" and you will see the truth.

Religion has a huge part in it. The false morality taught by intolerant religions creates a feeling that being gay is either a mental defect or a choice, and regardless of which it is, being gay is immoral.

This false morality drives people to donate huge sums of money supporting what is, essentially, deprivation of rights because of religious difference.

If you want to see exactly how awful it is, visit this website:

Homosexual Stats (http://believershomepage.com/homosexual_stats.htm)

That is some hateful, bigoted stuff right there.

"One nation under god" was written in 1892 by a Christian Socialist. The words have no meaning to me.

"In god we trust" first appeared on currency (a two-cent coin) in 1864.

The Founders may have been religious, but their country is not. They understood the dangers of religion.

[98s14inaz]

Religion has a huge part in it. The false morality taught by intolerant religions creates a feeling that being gay is either a mental defect or a choice, and regardless of which it is, being gay is immoral.

This false morality drives people to donate huge sums of money supporting what is, essentially, deprivation of rights because of religious difference.

If you want to see exactly how awful it is, visit this website:

Homosexual Stats (http://believershomepage.com/homosexual_stats.htm)

That is some hateful, bigoted stuff right there.

"One nation under god" was written in 1892 by a Christian Socialist. The words have no meaning to me.

"In god we trust" first appeared on currency (a two-cent coin) in 1864.

The Founders may have been religious, but their country is not. They understood the dangers of religion.

It's still a bunch of rich business owners not wanting to pay benefits. Yes religion is against the gays (something about not lying with another man) but it is all smoke and mirrors to hide a corporate agenda. Personally I could care less. Let them get married, it's obvious the straight couples can't get it right.

[Phlip]

Whats your email address? I have a great article from Rolling Stone by Tim Dickinson. Its too big to paste here, hope that doesn't scare you away.
PM me that link, I need some reading.

[mRclARK1]

It's still a bunch of rich business owners not wanting to pay benefits. Yes religion is against the gays (something about not lying with another man) but it is all smoke and mirrors to hide a corporate agenda. Personally I could care less. Let them get married, it's obvious the straight couples can't get it right.

People seem to forget there's a difference between opposing something, and simply not agreeing with it. Myself personally, do not agree with gay marriage. Would I OPPOSE it's legal passage? No. I would simply abstain on any vote either way. I may not agree with it for religious reasons, but I also know that religion and state do not mix. Not everyone follows my beliefs, and it's not my place to force them to. More religious people feel that way then you would think. You only ever hear about the "zealots" or "fundamentalists"

On the flip side however, there's a large crowd of people out there so opposed to religion for it being "intolerant" that they themselves are probably the most intolerant people in society. Usually the first thing that goes out the window with the proclamation of complete tolerance is zero tolerance for anyone who does not agree with you. ;)

They won't tolerate anyone who is intolerant, or anyone who tolerates intolerance. Anyone else see the problem there?

Mature and reasonable people can agree to disagree. Unfortunately today not many people with both those qualities seem to exist.

[Paul2x]

Here's some interesting Obama info...


2.) His Father Was A Goat Herder - NOT EXACTLY, he was a privileged, well
> educated youth, who went on to work with the Kenyan Government.

3.) Father Was A Proud Freedom Fighter - NOT EXACTLY, he was part of one of
the most corrupt and violent governments Kenya has ever had.

4.) My Family Has Strong Ties To African Freedom - NOT EXACTLY, your cousin Raila Odinga has created mass violence in attempting to overturn a
> legitimate election in 2007, in Kenya. It is the first widespread violence
> in decades. The current government is pro-American but Odinga wants to
> overthrow it and establish Muslim Sharia law. Your half-brother, Abongo
> Obama, is Odinga's follower. You interrupted your New Hampshire campaigning
> to speak to Odinga on the phone. Check out the following link for
> verification of that....and for more.
> Obama's cousin Odinga in Kenya ran for president and tried to get Sharia
> muslim law in place there. When Odinga lost the elections, his followers
> have burned Christians' homes and then burned men, women and children alive
> in a Christian church where they took shelter.. Obama SUPPORTED his cousin
> before the election process here started. Google Obama and Odinga and see
> what you get. No one wants to know the truth.

5.) My Grandmother Has Always Been A Christian - NOT EXACTLY, she does her
> daily Salat prayers at 5am according to her own interviews. Not to mention,
> Christianity wouldn't allow her to have been one of 14 wives to 1 man.

6.) My Name is African Swahili - NOT EXACTLY, your name is Arabic and
> 'Baraka' (from which Barack came) means 'blessed' in that language. Hussein
> is also Arabic and so is Obama.
> Barack Hussein Obama is not half black. If elected, he would be the first
> Arab-American President, not the first black President. Barack Hussein
> Obama is 50% Caucasian from his mother's side and 43.75% Arabic and 6.25%
> African Negro from his father's side. While Barack Hussein Obama's father
> was from Kenya, his father's family was mainly Arabs.. Barack Hussein
> Obama's father was only 12.5% African Negro and 87.5% Arab (his father's
> birth certificate even states he's Arab, not African Negro).

7.) I Never Practiced Islam - NOT EXACTLY, you practiced it daily at
> school, where you were registered as a Muslim and kept that faith for 31
> years, until your wife made you change, so you could run for office.
> 4-3-08 Article 'Obama was 'quite religious in islam''
> Obama was 'quite religious in Islam' (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=60559)

8.) My School In Indonesia Was Christian - NOT EXACTLY, you were registered
> as Muslim there and got in trouble in Koranic Studies for making faces
> (check your own book).
> February 28, 2008. Kristoff from the New York Times a year ago: Mr.
> Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting
> them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully
> uncalculated (it'll give Alabama voters heart attacks), Mr. Obama described
> the call to prayer as 'one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.'
> This is just one example of what Pamela is talking about when she says
> 'Obama's narrative is being altered, enhanced and manipulated to whitewash
> troubling facts.'

9.) I Was Fluent In Indonesian - NOT EXACTLY, not one teacher says you
> could speak the language.

10.) Because I Lived In Indonesia, I Have More Foreign Experience - NOT
> EXACTLY, you were there from the ages of 6 to 10, and couldn't even speak
> the language. What did you learn, how to study the Koran and watch cartoons.

11.) I Am Stronger On Foreign Affairs - NOT EXACTLY, except for Africa
> (surprise) and the Middle East (bigger surprise), you have never been
> anywhere else on the planet and thus have NO experience with our closest
> allies.

12.) I Blame My Early Drug Use On Ethnic Confusion - NOT EXACTLY, you were
> quite content in hi gh school to be Barry Obama, no mention of Kenya and no
> mention of struggle to identify - your classmates said you were just fine.

13.)An Ebony Article Moved Me To Run For Office - NOT EXACTLY, Ebony has
> yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn't, and never
> did, exist.

14.) A Life Magazine Article Changed My Outlook On Life - NOT EXACTLY, Life
> has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn't, and never
> did, exist.

15.) I Won't Run On A National Ticket In '08 - NOT EXACTLY, here you are,
> despite saying, live on TV, that you would not have enough experience by
> then, and you are all about having experience first.

16.) Voting 'Present' is Common In Illinois Senate - NOT EXACTLY, they are
> common for YOU, but not many others have 130 NO VOTES.

17.) Oops, I Misvoted - NOT EXACTLY, only when caught by church groups and
> Democrats, did you beg to change your misvote.

18.) I Was A Professor Of Law - NOT EXACTLY, you were a senior lecturer ON
> LEAVE.

19.) I Was A Constitutional Lawyer - NOT EXACTLY, you were a senior
> lecturer ON LEAVE.

20.) Without Me, There Would Be No Ethics Bill - NOT EXACTLY, you didn't
> write it, introduce it, change it, or create it.

21.) The Ethics Bill Was Hard To Pass - NOT EXACTLY, it took just 14 days
> from start to finish.

22.) I Wrote A Tough Nuclear Bill - NOT EXACTLY, your bill was rejected by
> your own party for its pandering and lack of all regulation - mainly
> because of your Nuclear donor, Exelon, from which David Axelrod came.

23.) I Have Released My State Records - NOT EXACTLY, as of March, 2008,
> state bills you sponsored or voted for have yet to be released, exposing
> all the special interests pork hidden within.

24.) I Took On The Asbestos Altgeld Gardens Mess - NOT EXACTLY, you were
> part of a large group of people who remedied Altgeld Gardens. You failed to
> mention anyone else but yourself, in your books.

25.) M y Economics Bill Will Help America - NOT EXACTLY, your 111 economic
> policies were just combined into a proposal which lost 99-0, and even YOU
> voted against your own bill.

26.) I Have Been A Bold Leader In Illinois - NOT EXACTLY, even your own
> supporters claim to have not seen BOLD action on your part.

27.) I Passed 26 Of My Own Bills In One Year - NOT EXACTLY, they were not
> YOUR bills, but rather handed to you, after their creation by a fellow
> Senator, to assist you in a future bid for higher office.

28.) No One on my campaign contacted Canada about NAFTA - NOT EXACTLY, the
> Candian Government issued the names and a memo of the conversation your
> campaign had with them.

29.) I Am Tough On Terrorism - NOT EXACTLY, you missed the Iran Resolution
> vote on terrorism and your good friend Ali Abunimah supports the
> destruction off Israel.

30.) I Want All Votes To Count - NOT EXACTLY, you said let the delegates
> decide.

31.) I Want Americans To Decide - NOT EXACTLY, you prefer caucuses that
> limit the vote, confuse the voters, force a public vote, and only operate
> during small windows of time.

32.) I passed 900 Bills in the State Senate - NOT EXACTLY, you passed 26,
> most of which you didn't write yourself.

33.) I Believe In Fairness, Not Tactics - NOT EXACTLY, you used tactics to
> eliminate Alice Palmer from running against you.

34.) I Don't Take PAC Money - NOT EXACTLY, you take loads of it.

35.) I don't Have Lobbysists - NOT EXACTLY, you have over 47 lobbyists, and
> counting.

36.) My Campaign Had Nothing To Do With The 1984 Ad - NOT EXACTLY, your own
> campaign worker made the ad on his Apple in one afternoon.

37.) I Have Always Been Against Iraq - NOT EXACTLY, you weren't in office
> to vote against it AND you have voted to fund it every single time.

38.) I Have Always Supported Universal Health Care - NOT EXACTLY, your plan
> leaves us all to pay for the 15,000,000 who don't have to buy it.
> 'Qui non intelligit aut discat aut taceat'
> Who does not understand should either learn, or be silent.

Quite an eye opener.........remember this when you vote.

Humm... :snoop:

[98s14inaz]

Whats your email address? I have a great article from Rolling Stone by Tim Dickinson. Its too big to paste here, hope that doesn't scare you away.

I heard Rolling Stone and started rolling on the floor laughing. I'm sorry, we would like credible sources.

[240vision]

This coming from one of the most liberal magazines out there. I am so sure that there is a 85% degree slant on this one. The celebs back Obama and he is called "The celebrity senator", "The Rock Star candidate". The same goes for NBC,CBS,MSNBC, the Clinton News Network (CNN). These are all slant artists.

[Matej]

Quite an eye opener.........remember this when you vote.

Humm... :snoop:
Wow, I bet some people actually believe all that.

[RJF]

Wow, I bet some people actually believe all that.

It's all factual and true. Do your homework.

[Phlip]

Factual and true, because everything in the comments from Fox News is factual and true.

And McCain being behind in every poll means they "got 'em right where we want 'em," I love it.

Seriously, people...
Look at Kwame Kilpatrick in Detroit... Hell, he was just the mayor in one of the physically shittiest cities in the country, and he fucked that off. This is all we need to know to show that you can't give them anything. Gave them jazz, they made "hip hop," gave them good food, they make "chicken and waffles," gave them drivers licenses and they make "donks."
If THIS, people does not keep you from voting for him, just remember to repeat "Barack Hussein Obama," and that he likes to pal around with terrorists, and think of what the terrorists did on 9/11. Ignore McCain's terrorist friends and that Sarah Palin knows approximitely jack shit about anything, just remember to vote for a maverick who puts country first and will keep us at war for at least 4 more years.

[RJF]

If THIS, people does not keep you from voting for him, just remember to repeat "Barack Hussein Obama," and that he likes to pal around with terrorists, and think of what the terrorists did on 9/11.

William Ayers - Bombed Pentagon, US Capital, NYC Police Headquarters.

Rashid Khalidi — former mouthpiece for master terrorist Yasser Arafat

The L.A. Times Suppresses Obama’s Khalidi Bash Tape by Andrew C. McCarthy on National Review Online (http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=ZDFkMGE2MmM1M2Q5MmY0ZmExMzUxMWRhZGJmMTAyOGY)

Who are McCain's terrorist friends? Did he have lunch with Timothy McVeigh and I missed it?

[ESmorz]

William Ayers - Bombed Pentagon, US Capital, NYC Police Headquarters.

Rashid Khalidi — former mouthpiece for master terrorist Yasser Arafat

The L.A. Times Suppresses Obama’s Khalidi Bash Tape by Andrew C. McCarthy on National Review Online (http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=ZDFkMGE2MmM1M2Q5MmY0ZmExMzUxMWRhZGJmMTAyOGY)

Who are McCain's terrorist friends? Did he have lunch with Timothy McVeigh and I missed it?

http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/story/81601_contra.jpg

[Phlip]

William Ayers - Bombed Pentagon, US Capital, NYC Police Headquarters.

Rashid Khalidi — former mouthpiece for master terrorist Yasser Arafat

The L.A. Times Suppresses Obama’s Khalidi Bash Tape by Andrew C. McCarthy on National Review Online (http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=ZDFkMGE2MmM1M2Q5MmY0ZmExMzUxMWRhZGJmMTAyOGY)

Who are McCain's terrorist friends? Did he have lunch with Timothy McVeigh and I missed it?
The fact that G. Gordon Liddy did time at club fed does NOTHING to trivialize his contact with McShame.
If "well, just because he knew him, and he did his time yaddayaddayadda" is enough, then you're going to have to produce better information yourself.
It's cool, though. I am not changing your mind, you're not changing mine... NEITHER of us are right, but that is only because NEITHER of us have a choice that is worth a shit. You're not changing anyone else's mind either, but I am not even trying to.

[RJF]

The fact that G. Gordon Liddy did time at club fed does NOTHING to trivialize his contact with McShame.
If "well, just because he knew him, and he did his time yaddayaddayadda" is enough, then you're going to have to produce better information yourself.
It's cool, though. I am not changing your mind, you're not changing mine... NEITHER of us are right, but that is only because NEITHER of us have a choice that is worth a shit. You're not changing anyone else's mind either, but I am not even trying to.

Granted Liddy did time, but admitted guilt. But he didn't work with McCain and McCain's political career was not launched in Liddy's living room

Ayers got off on a technicality and is still unrepentant and in 2001 even said he wished he bombed more. His wife Bernadette Doerhne was actualy convicted.

Los Angeles Times sitting on a videotape of the 2003 farewell bash in Chicago at which Barack Obama lavished praise on the guest of honor, Rashid Khalidi — former mouthpiece for master terrorist Yasser Arafat.

Khalidi (PLO) advocates and works for the destruction of Israel.

[Phlip]

Granted Liddy did time, but admitted guilt. But he didn't work with McCain and McCain's political career was not launched in Liddy's living room

Ayers got off on a technicality and is still unrepentant and in 2001 even said he wished he bombed more. His wife Bernadette Doerhne was actualy convicted.

Los Angeles Times sitting on a videotape of the 2003 farewell bash in Chicago at which Barack Obama lavished praise on the guest of honor, Rashid Khalidi — former mouthpiece for master terrorist Yasser Arafat.

Khalidi (PLO) advocates and works for the destruction of Israel.
Nope, not buying it.
Liddy hosted fund raisers at his house for McShame's reelection in 98, calls McCaint an "old friend," and apparently McLame is proud of Liddy's accomplishments as an American and that he since he has done his time, that all wounds are healed.
Things being equal, Ayers got off because of a technicality, is largely a non threat to this day and there should really be no reason that Obama should be taken to task for shit that happened when he was in elementary school if McCain is not similarly rapped for his connection to Liddy. Hell, if we're "getting off on a technicality," how many old people lost their entire life savings when Obama was "cleared of impropriety, but criticized for poor judgment"? Sure, you will say he was "exonerated," but that does NOTHING to UNfuck those people out of their shit.

Now please, fabricate some more unsubstantiated rumors about Obama and sell them as "true and factual," when anyone can see that McCain is clearly a bad person, and his vice president pick is even worse. We could talk about her as well, and how people who firebomb abortion clinics are "not necessarily domestic terrorists," but no one needs any more reasons to hate her. I look forward to her being scapegoated for a GOP loss, then NOT getting reelected in Alaska based on it. I honestly do look forward to the ruining of her life based on this shit.

[yokotas13]

but really, at least neither of them are good at public speakign without a teleprompter

such a simple skill, and they both fail

[Phlip]

but really, at least neither of them are good at public speakign without a teleprompter

such a simple skill, and they both fail
Good point, neither seems to be able to handle the word "proliferation," not to mention that bitch Palin is having all kinds of trouble with "nuclear," as we've been captive audience to for 8 years now.

*EDIT*
(trying not to tack on a bunch of extra posts)
http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/104368/is_john_mccain_stupid%2C_or_does_he_think_we_are/

[40daws]

From New York News and Features:

Every day (or close to it) until November 4, a series of writers and thinkers will discuss the election over instant messenger for nymag.com. Today, Rolling Stone's Matt Taibbi and New York's Michael Idov discuss why John McCain is “one of the worst” presidential candidates ever, Russian glee over American's problems, and what happens after a possible President Obama is hammered for what he doesn't manage to achieve (and how that relates to The Wire).

M.I.: So, will Ayers work? In terms of getting some "undecideds," of course, not just ginning up the rabid base.

M.T.: I don't think so. And I think they're working on other avenues of attack right now. They seem to be pushing this campaign-contributions story pretty hard now.

M.I.: Right, and that there's early-voting fraud in the states where Obama (coincidentally) leads the most.

M.T.: The thing is, Republicans in the last 40 years have ALWAYS gone the race route when things got tight. Nixon did it with his "law and order" commercials. Reagan used "welfare queens." Then there was Willie Horton, the immigration debate … so they're doing it again, but it won't work this time, and that's historic.

M.I.: I agree. I am most struck by the anecdotal evidence that the same people who don't hesitate calling Obama "n****r" also say they're leaning toward voting for him. That's pretty much it in the nutshell, isn't it?

M.T.: Right. This financial thing just wipes away all of the usual effectiveness of dirty politicking. People are more scared of being broke than they are of black people. In terms of "undecideds," this is a disaster for Republicans, because they picked Palin — had they gone the more moderate route, they might have had a chance to campaign against the Bush administration more. But now the ticket is firmly associated with the same kind of right-wing politics that got us here.

M.I.: The other truth that I think we haven't even realized yet is that people don't really give a shit about "terrorists" anymore. For most of America, 9/11 is just some historical thing that you're forced to remember once a year.

M.T.: Right on the terrorists thing. Again, it's all about fear. The typical election-season choice is between the candidate who plays on your fears (i.e., Bush warning about terrorists) and the candidate who plays on your sense of optimism (i.e., a Clintonian type). But now the crisis has taken the fear card away from the Republicans. Their tactics are trumped by circumstances. The real world, the crisis, is just more scary than their fake goblins.

M.I.: So let's look past the Obama victory. How vicious will the 2010 congressional race be, when the Republicans will be able to hit President Obama for FAILING to "deliver on his promises" (i.e., get us out of a massive depression in one year — the promise that no one's actually making right now)?

M.T.: That's hard to say on 2010. If Obama actually pulls us out of this somewhat — or if it just happens on its own, which I think is possible — he might do okay. But they're going to punish him hard in the advocacy media no matter what happens. It'll be like '94 probably.

M.I.: That's what I'm afraid of. Although, of course, with a Senate super-majority a not-unrealistic prospect, the Democrats should be able to ram some things through fairly fast.

M.T.: Again, the problem they have right now is that even Rush Limbaugh has almost no material to work with. When there's an Obama administration, they'll be hammering every last thing. And of course mistakes will be made. What kind of things do you think they'll ram through?

M.I.: Energy. Probably not national health care: There's just not going to be the money for it. Bush will have spent it all on banks.

M.T.: Yeah, it'll be like the mayor in The Wire. Gets elected and finds out the government is fifteen trillion in debt, can't do any programs.

M.I.: Speaking of energy — here's something I'm surprised McCain is not hitting Obama on: Obama is more emphatic about weaning us off Middle Eastern oil and less enthusiastic about domestic drilling. That leaves Russian oil, no? So McCain can slip into his comfy Cold War shoes on that one. But I haven't seen him make that argument.

M.T.: And Venezuelan oil. The Obama people would argue the issue is (a) domestic consumption and (b) lack of investment in alternative energy. McCain's would be a bit of a tough argument to make — i.e., I think it's hard to argue that weaning us off Middle Eastern oil puts our balls on Russia's chopping block. The issue is being dependent on oil generally.

M.I.: I hope that's the case. Yesterday I had an interview with some woman from Komsomolskaya Pravda [a Russian newspaper] who was practically delirious with glee at "the end of the American hegemony."

M.T.: They wish. I remember being with Russian journalists during the Florida mess in 2000 and everybody was just so psyched that America was falling apart. I tried to explain that America never goes away; we just keep fucking up upward.

M.I.: That's what I usually say in these situations, too. Except Russia has become a political buzzword in this cycle, so it's harder to explain to them that Obama and McCain don't actually wake up at night in cold sweat thinking of Putin.

M.T.: The really embarrassing thing is that Bush has made Putin look like Bismarck. Putin has played things almost perfectly since 9/11. Russia was 50 years away from being a superpower again at the end of the last century, and now they're five years away. And the Russians are even going beyond just exporting resources now — they're manufacturing again, while our economy is just dying.

M.I.: They have earned a bit of Schadenfreude. Especially now that we're nationalizing banks, etc. Hey, GM is near bankruptcy — maybe by next year it will be Gosudarstvennoe Mashinostroenie [Government Machine Works — Rus.]. They can keep the acronym.

But let's bring it back to our dear friend Ayers. So we're in agreement that it won't work? And when the next week shows a slight bump for McCain, we won't have heart attacks about it, right?

M.T.: I don't think McCain gets a bump. I think he goes into freefall and it's a landslide.

M.I.: Ooh, tell me more.

M.T.: He's been a terrible candidate, one of the worst ever. And the press hates him. His people treat the reporters like cattle — even worse than usual. That revolt over the pool and Sarah Palin shows you where the heads of everyone in the media are. They're tired of McCain's bullshit, and they're going to let him have it in the last weeks. (For readers who didn't hear, the McCain camp tried to prevent a reporter from following Sarah Palin at the U.N., because they didn't want her exposed to questions. The traveling press refused to cover her if they didn't back off and go back to the usual policy on pool coverage.)

M.I.: So one last thing: The current inhabitants of the White House don't seem to WANT McCain to win. Obviously, Bush would be toxic as a campaigner, but they still have enough juice to manipulate an event or two to "validate" some of McCain's points. An orchestrated statement from Iraq or Afghanistan endorsing his positions. Something. Yet the Bushies won't lift a finger. What's your take on that?

M.T.: Bush's name is like the Marburg virus on the campaign trail. The McCain people won't even mention him, let alone appear with him.

M.I.: Sure, but I'm talking about more subtle ways of helping. Does Bush hate McCain enough to genuinely prefer Obama? That's a mindfuck the Palin base might not recover from pondering.

M.T.: I think Bush is just cooked and politically isolated right now and what he thinks is irrelevant. You might remember he once said something about how the presidency sucks because there's so much work that you don't have time to just stare at your portrait and worry about your legacy. Well, he's about to have that time now, and he's not loving it. I do think you're right, though — he seems to genuinely dislike McCain. As do a lot of Republicans. I talked to one congressman this summer, a Republican, who said to me, "McCain is an officious prick."

A lot of Washington guys think he's a grandstander and an ego case. They remember stuff like the time he passed a bill yanking the special parking spaces for congressmen at Dulles.

M.I.: It's endlessly amusing to think Huckabee might have been a better bet. (At least he wouldn't need a Palin.)

M.T.: Huckabee wouldn't have won either. But at least he could have done a Goldwater, i.e., run a pure ideological race that sets the stage for something even bigger later.

M.I.: Right.

M.T.: But it would have been fun to see all those old fatty pictures on the Web.

M.I.: So our Wonkette-style takeaway is, Obama wins, things still suck for a while, the end.

M.T.: Sounds good.

M.I.: I can live with that.

[RJF]

The LA Times has no problem releasing videos of politicians it doesn't like

In 2006, the Los Angeles Times decided an audio tape it had obtained of California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, an apologetic Republican, in which he said of latina Assemblywoman Bonnie Garcia (R-80), "She seems to me like Cuban ... She maybe is Puerto Rican or the same thing as Cuban. I mean, they are all very hot. They have the, you know, part of the black blood in them and part of the Latino blood in them that together makes it,” was front-page news.

"The governor is heard on a six-minute recording, obtained by The Times, of a meeting with some members of his inner circle last spring," wrote Robert Salladay in the page A-1 story on the recording. "At the time, Schwarzenegger was struggling to persuade Republican lawmakers to embrace his plan to place billions of dollars in borrowing on the November ballot."

Now, I know commenting on heritage is, to our P.C.-police media, a far worse crime than palling around with terrorists (or even than committing terrorist acts, to judge by recent events like the LAT's call for a full pardon of "American Taliban" John Walker Lindh).

However, its history of baring all when it comes to tapes - both audio and video - that it obtains once again begs the question asked repeatedly here on RedState: Why won't the Times allow the public to see its video of Barack Obama, along with Weather Underground terrorists Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn, toasting former Palestinian Liberation Organization spokesman Rashid Khalidi at a 2003 event honoring the Arafat disciple and his wife?

Peter Wallsten, writing in the Times about the video this past April, said speakers at the 2003 event celebrating Khalidi "recited a poem accusing the Israeli government of terrorism in its treatment of Palestinians," threatened that Israel "will never see a day of peace," and "likened Zionist settlers on the West Bank to Osama bin Laden, saying both had been blinded by ideology."

However, wrote Wallsten, Obama "adopted a different tone in his comments and called for finding common ground."

On the latter, we are expected to simply take Wallsten's word for it, as the Times continues to steadfastly refuse to release the video of the event.

McCain spokesman Michael Goldfarb today called on the Times to release the video, saying, "A major news organization is intentionally suppressing information that could provide a clearer link between Barack Obama and Rashid Khalidi. The election is one week away, and it's unfortunate that the press so obviously favors Barack Obama that this campaign must publicly request that the Los Angeles Times do its job -- make information public."

Based on its decision so far not to let the public see what its staffers claim is a completely innocuous video of the Democratic presidential nominee at an event celebrating a former terrorist mouthpiece, it appears to be a pretty safe bet that this is going to continue to be kept under wraps until after next Tuesday at very least.

This video could very well have nothing on it that would hurt Obama's chances next week. If that is the case, then the LAT and the Obama campaign are doing their collectively-chosen candidate a disservice by allowing speculation to continue about what exactly is on the video.

Much like the Obama campaign could have nipped the lunatic fringe's obsession with his birth in the bud by simply releasing his birth certificate -- something it continues to inexplicably refuse to do -- the LAT would be best served, if this tape really is as innocuous as the public is expected to believe, by simply getting this over with and letting it be seen.

Likewise, the Obama campaign would seem to benefit more from leaning on the Times to go ahead and release the tape already, so as to end the mounting speculation about its contents and prevent more fallout from the perceived coverup of this event -- if, that is, the video's contents are as innocuous as we have been led to believe.

After all, they might not be, and until the LA Times and the Obama campaign deign to release the video for all to see, we will have nothing to do but continue speculating about just what it may contain that so many are so desperate that none ever see.