so how about this election

[BustedS13]

no matter what, there will either be a woman or a black man in the white house next year. pretty cool!

again, can we please stay upbeat, nobody likes political bashing, it's lame, and serves no purpose whatsoever.

[ALTRNTV]

Either a black man or woman? Last time I checked, it was
Obama vs McCain. Hilary isn't even in the running anymore.
They're also in the same party.

:tardrim:

[BustedS13]

Either a black man or woman? Last time I checked, it was
Obama vs McCain. Hilary isn't even in the running anymore.
They're also in the same party.

:tardrim:

mccain's running mate is Alaskan governor Sarah Palin. a woman.

[drift freaq]

Ah so McCain selected a women running mate, hmmmm interesting move. The question is will this gambit work?

[Vision Garage]

yea its McCain vs Obama. It will be a pretty crazy election. Altho I hope these threats against Obama stops. So we must choose the lesser of two evils :)

[ALTRNTV]

Oh shit. I heard that on the radio this morning.
Must have slipped my mind.

:keke:

Tupac is rolling in his grave.
"And although it seems heaven sent
We ain't ready, to see a black President, uhh"

[ryguy]

I am a Republican who doesnt really like Mccain or Obama, but I think I like Sarah Palin. I thought her speech was really good and plus for a 44 year old woman she looks pretty hot :hitit:.



http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0dJ81lnfGm7dM/610x.jpg
I have to look into her more but from what I've heard so far I like what she stands for.

[Mtndrifter14]

A woman btw that I'd def do.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/Mtndrifter14/small_pic_with_sarah_palin.jpg

[CrashQueen]

^^^Mccain chose a woman Sarah Palin to be his running mate/vice pres.



obama is probably like, "shit... i should have had hilary for my vp."

[drift freaq]

Oh shit. I heard that on the radio this morning.
Must have slipped my mind.

:keke:

Tupac is rolling in his grave.
"And although it seems heaven sent
We ain't ready, to see a black President, uhh"

Asleep at the wheel Simoun?

[drift freaq]

I am a Republican who doesnt really like Mccain or Obama, but I think I like Sarah Palin. I thought her speech was really good and plus for a 44 year old woman she looks pretty hot :hitit:. I have to look into her more but from what I've heard so far I like what she stands for.

You're from Chicago, you guys know more reality about Obama than the average American voter. Congrats to you. I don't like either of them myself. This is getting interesting though.

[ALTRNTV]

^I have dreams that I hear things on the radio,
and I think that's really what happened. I shouldn't
have my radio wake me up from now on.

:aw:

[Baka Sama]

Smart move... If he would have picked a white male to run with than he would have lost for sure. Picking a young woman (to offset his old white male ass) gives him some hope of the female voters. Too bad he still doesnt know how to work a computer :hide:

[flip3d]

mmm... sarah palin.

id vote for mccain and become her intern ;)


I dont care who wins though. Either way I'm still going to have to pay taxes. I'm still going to have to pay my bills. It's whatever.

[ryguy]

You're from Chicago, you guys know more reality about Obama than the average American voter. Congrats to you. I don't like either of them myself. This is getting interesting though.

It's amazing how any possible scandal that would have faced Obama is just swept under the rug by the national media. The thing that comes to mind for me is when Obama bought his new house and Tony Rezko, a friend of Obama's who is on trial for political corruption and is going to jail (is already in prison?) essentially paid for a large chunk of it. I just feel that deep down Obama is "another rich white politician." Not that I feel any different about McCain. But I digress, this thread is about how the political and cultural landscape is changing for the better.

[LeftNutOfGowd]

^^^Mccain chose a woman Sarah Palin to be his running mate/vice pres.



obama is probably like, "shit... i should have had hilary for my vp."

That's what I'm saying i thought homeboy was gonna have hilley as his vp oh well no matter what were going to make history

[Dirty Habit]

Damn.

I thought the thread title was "so how bout this erection?":keke:

[CrashQueen]

you know i think i refrain from my statement though.... i mean if you think about it it actually is a smart move on both their parts:

before this year, people would have said a black guy and a woman together would probably have the lowest statistical shot of winning the presidency. Obama is already out a fistful of bigots for being black, if he had a woman VP he'd alienate the rest of them. I think biden was a really lousy choice for a VP but he's a really WASPy (white anglo saxon protestant) guy and i think that's part of the reason he was chosen. Mccain on the other hand already is a token old white guy, so he stood to gain the most by picking up a woman or a minority


no disrespect here but it really was a wise scheme on both Obama and Mccains' part.









That's what I'm saying i thought homeboy was gonna have hilley as his vp oh well no matter what were going to make history

[LongGrain]

i like obama, i'll vote for him

but i'm not going to get my hopes up.

[LeftNutOfGowd]

http://askpang.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/sabine5.jpg


And she has 5 kids she just had her 5th

[Baka Sama]

Now that I think about it, Mccain should have picked an asian female to run with. That would have been pretty funny. So its either gonna be the oldest president ever and a woman or a semi black guy.

[Matej]

Eh, to tell the truth I don't really like any of these candidates. Out of the past three elections, the only candidate who seemed kind of appealing to me was Gore. I'm sure I'll catch some hate for that.
In my opinion choosing Palin was a smart move on McCain's part, many people will like her because of her looks, as I can tell from this thread already, and McCain will appeal more to people who have been calling him too old fashioned, and Obama can't call out McCain on being stuck in the old ways as much as he has been able to until now.
Although, it does also make McCain a hypocrit, who's been putting Obama down until now on the basis that he's too young to have any experience, and now he has chosen a VP three years younger than Obama, and a whole generation younger than himself, younger than his children even.
I personally don't like Palin, mainly because she's known for her strong anti-abortion stance, to me she just seems like a younger McCain/Bush, who happens to be a female.
Also, not putting down Alaska, I think that place is amazing, but whenever I've been there it didn't even feel like being in the U.S., it felt like a completely different country with its own problems and standards, I'm not sure how the governor of scarcely-populated Alaska would do as a VP of the entire country, but who knows, I guess the VP doesn't really do all that much anyway.
Personally, I'd still rather spend the next 4 years with Obama/Biden and see if Obama can put his money where his mouth is, as nothing about McCain/Palin's politics appeals to me.

[24Ochick<3]

all i can say is this debate sucks ass. why would i ever vote for someone (obama) who wont even put his right hand over his heart durring the pledge of allegiance. wtf is that! if your gunna represent our country, respect it. idk, that realllllyyyy made me mad! ohh and how supposably he's gunna try to make our country muslem? is that true or am i the only person who caught that! america is freedom of religion right? so whats the problem!!! :tweak:lol

[Future240]

I obama wins it will be epic, until he gets shot.

If mcain wins it wont be epic, until he dies of a heart attack 4 days later, and his woman VP take over, then it will be epic.

[WERDdabuilder]

whats funny is females will probably now vote for mccain because his VP is female. jump party time.

edit: not saying ALL females.
edit: im watching news and they are interviewing women from the the red hat society. this one lady is a die-hard democrat but now is having second thoughts on voting for her party since the VP of the other party is female.

you know for the most part that a large percentage of the women that voted for hilary is because she is a women and they want to back up the whole women's movement.

i see it also happening with the whole "im black im backing up obama".

they probably dont even read about where these candidates stand on issues.

but most important....she has the face of a person that loves the D.

[24Ochick<3]

whats funny is females will probably now vote for mccain because his VP is female. jump party time.

:tweak: not exactly. if females base their vote on that, they're complete idiots :D this person will be controling the us, i think before people vote, they should do some history searches on both... then compair.. after that, make their decision. i kno i'm not basing my vote ona stupid reason like a female VP, im an american; i don't want another idiot running our country ;)


:snoop:i think i'll go for president! :keke: jk, i sooo wouldn't win :p

p.s.. werd, nothing was taken personal..lol

[Gnnr]

all i can say is this debate sucks ass. why would i ever vote for someone (obama) who wont even put his right hand over his heart durring the pledge of allegiance. wtf is that! if your gunna represent our country, respect it. idk, that realllllyyyy made me mad! ohh and how supposably he's gunna try to make our country muslem? is that true or am i the only person who caught that! america is freedom of religion right? so whats the problem!!! :tweak:lol

Barack Obama Refused To Say Pledge of Allegiance? Someone Lied To You « Think On These Things (http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/barack-obama-refused-to-say-the-pledge-of-allegiance-youve-been-played-for-a-daggone-fool/)

[atom]

That picture yall are quoting isn't even her. That's the overstock.com girl. Fail @ google image search LOL.

[ryguy]

That picture yall are quoting isn't even her. That's the overstock.com girl. Fail @ google image search LOL.

What the hell, when you google "Sabine Ehrenfield" and "Sarah Palin" many of the pictures are of the same girl. Well, they look identical.
This is for sure her.
http://livingalaska.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/sarah_palin2.jpg

[drift freaq]

whats funny is females will probably now vote for mccain because his VP is female. jump party time.

edit: not saying ALL females.
edit: im watching news and they are interviewing women from the the red hat society. this one lady is a die-hard democrat but now is having second thoughts on voting for her party since the VP of the other party is female.

you know for the most part that a large percentage of the women that voted for hilary is because she is a women and they want to back up the whole women's movement.

i see it also happening with the whole "im black im backing up obama".

they probably dont even read about where these candidates stand on issues.

but most important....she has the face of a person that loves the D.

Another well informed and true post. Most people need to step back and stop listening to the speechs from either candidate. Speeches are not only scripted but are also based on Oratorical ability. Just because someone is a great Orator does not mean they have the qualifications or ability to run the country.
In the end you have to look at their track record what they have done and their achievements.
Honestly Obama does not have a track record, just ask ryguy about that. He lives in Illinois. Obama has done absolutely nothing but sound good and say what the people want to hear. That does not mean he might not be full of shit, he might have some kind of agenda we have no clue about.
McCain has said things some people don't like, and made political vote stumbles because of it. Though when you look at his track record it exists.
Of and for all you idiots who think McCain is just another Bush. Pull your head out of your Game computer and start studying his record in congress. You might find he opposed Bush on a lot things and has been known and is known as Maverick in congress. So before all you people being duped by the say good of Obama start speaking up study up on congress and get the fuck informed! Now of course all of you are going to say oh your voting for McCain! Actually I don't know who I am voting for! Its a tough decision but I do know this. I am making my decision based on facts and information not something a person says in a speech!

[WERDdabuilder]

say what the people want to hear. That does not mean he might not be full of shit, he might have some kind of agenda we have no clue about.


isnt this what being a politician is all about?:keke:

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

I would rock her all day loooooong. But she has literally NO experience. 20 months in office and only accounted for 110,000 votes to be Governor. Think about this seriously, McCain is 72. If he has a grabber in his first few months as president we'll have a woman who has 20 months of experience in politics. Not only that but she's being investigated for trying to fire her ex bro in law for divorcing her sister, which is a crime. Not only that but she's a religious FREAK! I don't know about anyone else but I think I've had enough with mixing church and state!
The choice should have been Charlie Crist.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

It's amazing how any possible scandal that would have faced Obama is just swept under the rug by the national media. The thing that comes to mind for me is when Obama bought his new house and Tony Rezko, a friend of Obama's who is on trial for political corruption and is going to jail (is already in prison?) essentially paid for a large chunk of it. I just feel that deep down Obama is "another rich white politician." Not that I feel any different about McCain. But I digress, this thread is about how the political and cultural landscape is changing for the better.
The thing you have to understand is that Obama is not just "another rich white guy." He grew up in a single family very middle class family and fought his way through life. Even now, he's CLEARLY the more qualified candidate, and he's fighting through this mostly because of his race. Sure he has a very nice house but compared to McCains multi-million dollar houses (8 of them) his seems like a shack. McCain's condo in Cali is 6 mil alone.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

all i can say is this debate sucks ass. why would i ever vote for someone (obama) who wont even put his right hand over his heart durring the pledge of allegiance. wtf is that! if your gunna represent our country, respect it. idk, that realllllyyyy made me mad! ohh and how supposably he's gunna try to make our country muslem? is that true or am i the only person who caught that! america is freedom of religion right? so whats the problem!!! :tweak:lol
If you really believe that you're an idiot. You're exactly what the republican party wants people to be, uneducated and believe everything that comes out. The right wings have come out with some VERY hateful things about Obama. If you believe all this then you would believe that Obama removed the American flag off his plane, not because American Airlines forced him to, but to put the North Korea flag on it. lol.

[ryguy]

Honestly Obama does not have a track record, just ask ryguy about that. He lives in Illinois. Obama has done absolutely nothing but sound good and say what the people want to hear.

Well actually, I live in Northwest Indiana (still a Chicago suburb and literally 5 minutes from the Illinois border and right in the thick of the Chicago media market), but I work in Chicago. I read Chicago newspapers, and all my news channels are Chicago news channels. Still, it doesn't take a genius to see through Obama's bullshit. Hell, for all i know he does have the best of intentions and all the love in the world for this country. But, I have yet to hear him say exactly how he plans to accomplish everything he says he will. You watch the news, you see Obama say "I plan to reduce the number of troops in the middle east, I plan to give every poor person healthcare, I plan to "change" America." I have yet to be convinced that he knows how to do any of these things. I like his message, but unless he can pull off half his promises without sending taxes through the roof, he can keep his change. I have been aware of Obama from the day he was elected, but even working IN his congressional district, I havent seen any spectacular change for the better.
*EDIT* I found a video that pretty much sums up my pessimism towards his platform.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBofMELuSMA&feature=related

It doesnt really matter if its McCain or Obama anyways, it takes more than a president to change the country. However, I see Obama's weakness and inability to lead in a somewhat positive light. In my opinion, Congress should be the most powerful branch of government. Bush has that balance of power all upended.

In all honesty, I like McCain's message better (eliminate wasteful spending, shrink government), but I dont know if I can believe anything the Republican party is putting out. After all, Bush ran on a small government, balanced budget, non-interventionalist platform when he won in 2000.

But she has literally NO experience. 20 months in office and only accounted for 110,000 votes to be Governor. Think about this seriously, McCain is 72. If he has a grabber in his first few months as president we'll have a woman who has 20 months of experience in politics.

And Obama has actually been the head of which governmental body? The way I see it, she has more leadership experience than McCain, Obama, and Biden combined. Dont try and tell me that his three or so years of being in the Senate makes him any more qualified than Palin. And, for a large chunk of that time, Obama was on the campaign trail. I realize that Obama has been in the State senate since 1997, but I put that on the same level as Palin being mayor of a town.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Well actually, I live in Northwest Indiana (still a Chicago suburb and literally 5 minutes from the Illinois border and right in the thick of the Chicago media market), but I work in Chicago. I read Chicago newspapers, and all my news channels are Chicago news channels. Still, it doesn't take a genius to see through Obama's bullshit. Hell, for all i know he does have the best of intentions and all the love in the world for this country. But, I have yet to hear him say exactly how he plans to accomplish everything he says he will. You watch the news, you see Obama say "I plan to reduce the number of troops in the middle east, I plan to give every poor person healthcare, I plan to "change" America." I have yet to be convinced that he knows how to do any of these things. I like his message, but unless he can pull off half his promises without sending taxes through the roof, he can keep his change. I have been aware of Obama from the day he was elected, but even working IN his congressional district, I havent seen any spectacular change for the better.
*EDIT* I found a video that pretty much sums up my pessimism towards his platform.
YouTube - Obama's Former Chicago District in ruins. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBofMELuSMA&feature=related)

It doesnt really matter if its McCain or Obama anyways, it takes more than a president to change the country. However, I see Obama's weakness and inability to lead in a somewhat positive light. In my opinion, Congress should be the most powerful branch of government. Bush has that balance of power all upended.

In all honesty, I like McCain's message better (eliminate wasteful spending, shrink government), but I dont know if I can believe anything the Republican party is putting out. After all, Bush ran on a small government, balanced budget, non-interventionalist platform when he won in 2000.
.....eliminate wasteful spending....shrink government....am I back in 2000 with Bush? That's the same ol' crap that Bush was spewing. If they want to get rid of wasteful spending then they'd pull out of Iraq.

But I agree with you that no one can fix the cluster fuck that Bush has created. The problem with McCain is that he was the biggest Bush supporter during Bush's administration. Obama might not "fix" our budget, but he might create a forward thinking plan to better our country. It's a better thought than McCain has by staying in Iraq.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

And Obama has actually been the head of which governmental body? The way I see it, she has more leadership experience than McCain, Obama, and Biden combined.
And this is what McCain will eventually start to say. The point is not necessarily experience, it's qualifications. All of which, Obama and Biden demolish the McCain abortion. She was a friggin beauty queen for gods sake! What law school did she graduate from? oh, that's right, none. She has a masters in journalism. hahaha. You're talking about a beauty queen that went to city councilman of buttfucktown, Alaska to possible Vice President and there's a very relistic chance of her being President in a matter of 2 years. It's just a HORRIBLE choice.

[24Ochick<3]

If you really believe that you're an idiot. You're exactly what the republican party wants people to be, uneducated and believe everything that comes out. The right wings have come out with some VERY hateful things about Obama. If you believe all this then you would believe that Obama removed the American flag off his plane, not because American Airlines forced him to, but to put the North Korea flag on it. lol.


who are you to say i'm an idiot? i'm veryy aware of what i posted about. it was spoken about on the NEWS and also filmed and replayed on the news, so before you go and BASH on anyone elses view on things, make sure what your BASHING on is truely , how do you say, UNTRUE! not everyone will have your opinion buddy, so chill on ur NEG. REPPING cause i have different thoughts. sorry, but your mind is not mine and my mind is not yours... don't expect everyone to feel the same way about issues sweety, your only setting yourself up for a letdown ;) ohh wait, i'm uneducated since i dont know every little detail of the debate.. i'm an idiot. sorry for giving my opinion ina PUBLIC FORUM where your supposed to give your views.. hahaha.. :down:

http://www.capveterans.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/obama_s_patriotism.jpg
http://www.granitegrok.com/pix/Obama%20Flag.jpg

THE VIDEO OF OBAMA REFUSING TO SOLUTE TO THE NATIONAL ANTHEM. so much for me being UNEDUCATED huh? :keke: hope you like it boys!
http://www.youtube.com/v/hU9iCANi02o&hl=en&fs=1

US Flag Code states the following:

(a) Designation.— The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.

(b) Conduct During Playing.— During a rendition of the national anthem—

(1) when the flag is displayed—

(A) all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart.

(B) men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart.

(C) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note.

(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

[98s14inaz]

Barack Obama Refused To Say Pledge of Allegiance? Someone Lied To You « Think On These Things (http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/barack-obama-refused-to-say-the-pledge-of-allegiance-youve-been-played-for-a-daggone-fool/)

Saying it and meaning it are two completely different things. When the national anthem plays you either (if you're in the military) stand at ease, stand at attention, or salute...(if you're a civilian) remove your hat, cover your heart with your hand or hat. Everyone knows that whether blue collar or white collar. It's disrespectful to say the least especially when everyone else around him has their hand over their heart during the anthem.

[98s14inaz]

I am a Republican who doesnt really like Mccain or Obama, but I think I like Sarah Palin. I thought her speech was really good and plus for a 44 year old woman she looks pretty hot :hitit:.



http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0dJ81lnfGm7dM/610x.jpg
I have to look into her more but from what I've heard so far I like what she stands for.

She kind of reminds me of the president in BSG...except hot :keke: In all seriousness it was genius on McCain's part to choose a woman. It is going to split even more votes away from Obama. The ignorant women's rights masses will vote for McCain just because the VP will be a woman. I'm not saying women are ignorant or that there is anything wrong with them having rights, just saying McCain will get a lot of their votes despite party.

[imotion s14]

.....eliminate wasteful spending....shrink government....am I back in 2000 with Bush? That's the same ol' crap that Bush was spewing. If they want to get rid of wasteful spending then they'd pull out of Iraq.

My argument in comparison with the Neocons and Liberal-Socialist is that wars end eventually. Defense budget can be cut. Just like they cut NASA's budget. You can't put a human face on these types of programs like you can on entitlements.

Can you name me a government entitlement program that has been cut or eliminated outright? Have we gotten any closer to the elimination of poverty when the Great Society declared war on it?

6 decades already. Someone read us the score card please.

Poverty 6, Welfare 0.

Or better yet, put a LED counter, like the national debt counter. Instead of counting the debt, this one will count the amount need it before we can totally eliminate poverty.

Or we can take a page from the commie book. Just say no one is rich and poof, poverty is gone because you can't be poor if no one is rich. :bow:

If Universal healthcare or any other entitlement program Obama promised becomes a reality. We'll be paying for that for it until the collapse of this country. And it it doesn't work, then obviously it's a funding issue. Throw more money at it!

Obama might not "fix" our budget, but he might create a forward thinking plan to better our country.Do you know what a budget is? A budget is a spending PLAN. It's just a plan that says you're going to spend this amount of money.

That's it.

If you plan on spending 50k in 2009 and at the end of the year, you only spent 40k. Congratulations, you just created a SURPLUS in your budget! But you only made 30k that year. So it's still deficit spending. Not that I'm defending Dubya's massive deficit spending.

Obama wants to cut taxes for the low income and middle class. Here's the kicker, the low end of low income earners don't pay taxes in the first place.

Generally low income earners don't pay much taxes at all. The middle class, well that's hard to figure out because the line where low income and middle income starts and stops keeps changing for Barry. But they will be getting tax cuts.

So you got tax cuts and you got entitlement program promises to make your life better. How are they going to pay for it while cutting taxes?

Borrow and spend. Business as usual.

[dat411kid]

Ultimately Mccain's choice of choosing a women VP is pretty damm risky...Considering the experience and lack of people knowing who she actually is...It makes some sense as he probably will score some the votes from disenfranchised Hillary supporters, Diehard republicans not sure...It sure is gonna be hard to make a Experience strike against Obama when you have a inexperienced VP...Ultimately I think his choice will hurt him in the long run...Also he met her only once prior to nominating her? Desperation or political strategy? You be the judge...

[imotion s14]

Ultimately Mccain's choice of choosing a women VP is pretty damm risky...Considering the experience and lack of people knowing who she actually is...It makes some sense as he probably will score some the votes from disenfranchised Hillary supporters, Diehard republicans not sure...It sure is gonna be hard to make a Experience strike against Obama when you have a inexperienced VP...Ultimately I think his choice will hurt him in the long run...Also he met her only once prior to nominating her? Desperation or political strategy? You be the judge...

It is but McCain is viewed as pretty damn suspicious by a good portion of the Republican base. Especially the neocon base. She's pro-life and a rural bumpkin, so I think she'd score well with that base of voters and reduce their suspicion of McCain.

[ESmorz]

who are you to say i'm an idiot? - it was spoken about on the NEWS and also filmed and replayed on the news

Funniest thing I read all day.

:keke:

So the fuck what if he doesn't put his hand over his heart. Neither do I. I don't feel in these times I am obligated to pledge my allegiance to a country that is doing the complete opposite of what it should be doing. I love America, we have it great but I do not swear to uphold any bum fuck policy that people far richer than I will ever be, uphold to get themselves more powerful.

[24Ochick<3]

Funniest thing I read all day.

:keke:

So the fuck what if he doesn't put his hand over his heart. Neither do I. I don't feel in these times I am obligated to pledge my allegiance to a country that is doing the complete opposite of what it should be doing. I love America, we have it great but I do not swear to uphold any bum fuck policy that people far richer than I will ever be, uphold to get themselves more powerful.


wow, you really do needa get your head outta your ass.:gives:the point is... DONT BE CALLING PEOPLE AN IDIOT jus because they have other views. grow the fuck up. honestly! anyways, i dont support anyone who doesn't respect our country, PERIOD... my WHOLE family (and i'm pretty sure others as well) didn't risk their fucking lives to keep this country's respect and freedom, jus for ignorant people like you, who live in america, and enjoy all the great privileges that come along with all the freedom we have, and not have any type of respect for the flag. i'm not gunna sit here and change my views cause a few of you guys on here have something against weathly people (republicans). my family and i, worked my ass off to be where we are today; wealth wasn't jus handed to me, i earned it by working hard... so for me to support obama's LIES, your outta ur mind. don't hate on us jus because we don't wana go along with his propaganda. if you can't respect america enough to solute to the flag, you have NO RIGHT to sit there and vote or give any type of judgement. period. sorry, but you FAIL.

p.s... you can neg repp me all you wan't; i'm not here on zilvia for your satisfaction or for repp's ;) if you don't like people's views, get the fuck off a public forum...:wcc:

[BustedS13]

who are you to say i'm an idiot? i'm veryy aware of what i posted about. it was spoken about on the NEWS and also filmed and replayed on the news, so before you go and BASH on anyone elses view on things, make sure what your BASHING on is truely , how do you say, UNTRUE! not everyone will have your opinion buddy, so chill on ur NEG. REPPING cause i have different thoughts. sorry, but your mind is not mine and my mind is not yours... don't expect everyone to feel the same way about issues sweety, your only setting yourself up for a letdown ;) ohh wait, i'm uneducated since i dont know every little detail of the debate.. i'm an idiot. sorry for giving my opinion ina PUBLIC FORUM where your supposed to give your views.. hahaha.. :down:

http://www.capveterans.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/obama_s_patriotism.jpg
http://www.granitegrok.com/pix/Obama%20Flag.jpg

THE VIDEO OF OBAMA REFUSING TO SOLUTE TO THE NATIONAL ANTHEM. so much for me being UNEDUCATED huh? :keke: hope you like it boys!
http://www.youtube.com/v/hU9iCANi02o&hl=en&fs=1

US Flag Code states the following:

(a)Designation.— The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.

(b) Conduct During Playing.— During a rendition of the national anthem—

(1) when the flag is displayed—

(A) all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart.

(B) men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart.

(C) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note.

(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

well, this thread turned into what i expected.

please stop spreading grandma's chain letters. thank you.

[24Ochick<3]

^^grandma's chain letters?

[BustedS13]

^^grandma's chain letters?

yes. are you going to post up something about him not being an american citizen next?

it's perfectly acceptable to fold your hands during the national anthem, and there are plenty of examples of him doing both. it's a non issue.

[24Ochick<3]

yes. are you going to post up something about him not being an american citizen next?

it's perfectly acceptable to fold your hands during the national anthem, and there are plenty of examples of him doing both. it's a non issue.


i posted that (if you would go back and read) because he called me an idiot &&uneducated; he said it never happened... thats the reason i posted what i did.

i'm allowed to give my thoughts &&views on things, jus like everyone else. if people don't like it, ohh well i'm not here to please them. (don't take that ina rude way) people jus irritate me :)

[ESmorz]

if you can't respect america enough to solute to the flag, you have NO RIGHT to sit there and vote or give any type of judgement. period. sorry, but you FAIL.

I don't plan on registering.

Jury duty.

Fuck that.

:cops:

There is a big difference between respecting your country and respecting the current regime running your country. I meet some people who voted for George Bush for both terms and I can only think to myself... really? They let you vote? I am all in favor of an IQ test when you register to vote.

i posted that (if you would go back and read) because he called me an idiot &&uneducated

I never said that, that's how you took it.

I simply said it was the funniest thing I read all day because you said you saw it on the news so it must be true...

Now I will though.

[24Ochick<3]

I don't plan on registering.

Jury duty.

Fuck that.

:cops:

There is a big difference between respecting your country and respecting the current regime running your country. I meet some people who voted for George Bush for both terms and I can only think to myself... really? They let you vote? I am all in favor of an IQ test when you register to vote.


well i wasn't one of those people who voted for bush, fuck that. agreed on the IQ test, some people shouldn't be voting period.:tweak:

obama was interviewed personally after that happened, he admitted to him not soluting. so i reasearch before i start believing... so what i post, is simply not bullshit. but moving on..

[aa87]

if you can't respect america enough to solute to the flag, you have NO RIGHT to sit there and vote or give any type of judgement. period. sorry, but you FAIL.


You serious? You want to talk about being wealthy republicans and otherwise is fail, while you want us to do this to our flag?

http://discover.edventures.com/images/termlib/s/solute/support.gif

Seriously, I think McCain choice is ridiculous. He is old, and probably will die in office, and i don't know about having a beauty pageant queen as president, especially one lacking true experience. Sure the bitch is governor but of fucking Alaska. What the fuck happens in Alaska!?? Oil drilling and fisherman and shit. Get legit people

Maybe i think we should bring the poll tests back and seriously try to filter out ignorant people that cant get the basics of spelling. PERIOD SORRY YOU FAILDURRR>

[BustedS13]

i posted that (if you would go back and read) because he called me an idiot &&uneducated; he said it never happened... thats the reason i posted what i did.

i'm allowed to give my thoughts &&views on things, jus like everyone else. if people don't like it, ohh well i'm not here to please them. (don't take that ina rude way) people jus irritate me :)


this is from the first post in this thread.

can we please stay upbeat, nobody likes political bashing, it's lame, and serves no purpose whatsoever.

this is not the platform for hatin'. please cease and desist.

[24Ochick<3]

well i wasn't one of those people who voted for bush, fuck that. agreed on the IQ test, some people shouldn't be voting period.:tweak:

obama was interviewed personally after that happened, he admitted to him not soluting. so i reasearch before i start believing... so what i post, is simply not bullshit. but moving on..

You serious? You want to talk about being wealthy republicans and otherwise is fail, while you want us to do this to our flag?

http://discover.edventures.com/images/termlib/s/solute/support.gif

Seriously, I think McCain choice is ridiculous. He is old, and probably will die in office, and i don't know about having a beauty pageant queen as president, especially one lacking true experience. Sure the bitch is governor but of fucking Alaska. What the fuck happens in Alaska!?? Oil drilling and fisherman and shit. Get legit people

Maybe i think we should bring the poll tests back and seriously try to filter out ignorant people that cant get the basics of spelling. PERIOD SORRY YOU FAILDURRR>

ahaha, your assuming im voting for mccain.. good shit; newsflash, i havent decided yet... both are fucking complete idiots. and i would NEVER base my decision on a certain party because there's a FEMALE representing. "duhhhh".

[24Ochick<3]

this is from the first post in this thread.



this is not the platform for hatin'. please cease and desist.


no sweety, whatever you quoted was NOT the first thing that was posted. and i'm not bashing anyone... people are gettin all butt hurt cause they dont like my views.. how old are we? exactly. everyone is entitled to their own opinions. jus like you and esmorz and all the rest. i dont understand why the guys are coming down on me for whatever i have to say... thats jus stupid!

[aa87]

ahaha, your assuming im voting for mccain.. good shit; newsflash, i havent decided yet... both are fucking complete idiots. and i would NEVER base my decision on a certain party because there's a FEMALE representing. "duhhhh".

So you haven't decided between independent or McCain, because obviously Obama's flag soluting-self(you cant dissolve into solution something with your right hand over your heart, DUH!) is at the top of your list.

no sweety, whatever you quoted was NOT the first thing that was posted. and i'm not bashing anyone... people are gettin all butt hurt cause they dont like my views.. how old are we? exactly. everyone is entitled to their own opinions. jus like you and esmorz and all the rest. i dont understand why the guys are coming down on me for whatever i have to say... thats jus stupid!

So What are your views that, demoralizing democratic candidates with garbage in this thread, promoting the republican party, and topping the cake with saying you haven't decided?! Get serious.

[shishcabobers]

So on another note....I finally registered to vote. Got a wake up call when there were education budget cuts, I felt it when i started my semester, made me regret. So I'm pretty excited that I can actually make some kind of difference.

[luftrofl]

wow, you really do needa get your head outta your ass.:gives:the point is... DONT BE CALLING PEOPLE AN IDIOT jus because they have other views. grow the fuck up. honestly! anyways, i dont support anyone who doesn't respect our country, PERIOD... my WHOLE family (and i'm pretty sure others as well) didn't risk their fucking lives to keep this country's respect and freedom, jus for ignorant people like you, who live in america, and enjoy all the great privileges that come along with all the freedom we have, and not have any type of respect for the flag. i'm not gunna sit here and change my views cause a few of you guys on here have something against weathly people (republicans). my family and i, worked my ass off to be where we are today; wealth wasn't jus handed to me, i earned it by working hard... so for me to support obama's LIES, your outta ur mind. don't hate on us jus because we don't wana go along with his propaganda. if you can't respect america enough to solute to the flag, you have NO RIGHT to sit there and vote or give any type of judgement. period. sorry, but you FAIL.

p.s... you can neg repp me all you wan't; i'm not here on zilvia for your satisfaction or for repp's ;) if you don't like people's views, get the fuck off a public forum...:wcc:

I like how you equate loving America to saluting the flag. That's the kind of thing that we want to vote on- not the real issues or any other bullshit like that. :keke:

Anybody remember that one Futurama episode?

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/5686/futuramaep59wp6.jpg

[BustedS13]

no sweety, whatever you quoted was NOT the first thing that was posted. and i'm not bashing anyone... people are gettin all butt hurt cause they dont like my views.. how old are we? exactly. everyone is entitled to their own opinions. jus like you and esmorz and all the rest. i dont understand why the guys are coming down on me for whatever i have to say... thats jus stupid!

yes. it was. LOOK AT THE FIRST POST IN THIS THREAD.

can a mod please clean up all this nonsense? i was hoping for an upbeat thread that doesn't resort to half truths and anecdotal nonsense. thank you.

[24Ochick<3]

I like how you equate loving America to saluting the flag. That's the kind of thing that we want to vote on- not the real issues or any other bullshit like that. :keke:

Anybody remember that one Futurama episode?

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/5686/futuramaep59wp6.jpg

its the respect factor.

[24Ochick<3]

im over this back and forth shit. if ANY of you guys cant handle other people's views (wether you AGREE or DISAGREE); stay the hell off of public forums! my intentions were not to have this thread end up in nonsense, but some people can't seem to handle other people's views that they disagree with. IM OVER THIS THREAD. if you wana discuss this further, you can come to me directly. jus because i'm a FEMALE doesn't mean i'm a complete DUMBASS (as you guys said on my rep's) i kno my shit, and i'm not afraid to speak how i feel. with that, all i can say is good luck on your decisions :)

[shishcabobers]

im over this back and forth shit. if ANY of you guys cant handle other people's views (wether you AGREE or DISAGREE); stay the hell off of public forums! my intentions were not to have this thread end up in nonsense, but some people can't seem to handle other people's views that they disagree with. IM OVER THIS THREAD. if you wana discuss this further, you can come to me directly. jus because i'm a FEMALE doesn't mean i'm a complete DUMBASS (as you guys said on my rep's) i kno my shit, and i'm not afraid to speak how i feel. with that, all i can say is good luck on your decisions :)

This has gone way off the deep end...Uhh I understand this is a public forum and you can express your public views. Everyone has their own point of views, but just out of courtesy of Busted S13 topic, we should respect the fact that he was not looking for political bashing.

[jonasblack]

who cares who McCain choose for a VP. Vp's are useless.

[ESmorz]

who cares who McCain choose for a VP. Vp's are useless.

Because he might

http://ebelongia.tripod.com/halloween/imageshalloween2002/casket.jpg

[luftrofl]

im over this back and forth shit. if ANY of you guys cant handle other people's views (wether you AGREE or DISAGREE); stay the hell off of public forums! my intentions were not to have this thread end up in nonsense, but some people can't seem to handle other people's views that they disagree with. IM OVER THIS THREAD. if you wana discuss this further, you can come to me directly. jus because i'm a FEMALE doesn't mean i'm a complete DUMBASS (as you guys said on my rep's) i kno my shit, and i'm not afraid to speak how i feel. with that, all i can say is good luck on your decisions :)

Sounds more like you couldn't handle other people's opinions :). If you're gonna attack a candidate, do it for reasons that are actually important- like how Obama seems like a lot of talk but doesn't go into how he's actually going to fix things. "omgwtfbbq he doesn't respektz uss" isn't acceptable.

who cares who McCain choose for a VP. Vp's are useless.
VP is 1st in line if the President dies and is a tiebreaker in the Senate. I'd hardly call that useless.

[Rayne]

who are you to say i'm an idiot? i'm veryy aware of what i posted about. it was spoken about on the NEWS and also filmed and replayed on the news, so before you go and BASH on anyone elses view on things, make sure what your BASHING on is truely , how do you say, UNTRUE! not everyone will have your opinion buddy, so chill on ur NEG. REPPING cause i have different thoughts. sorry, but your mind is not mine and my mind is not yours... don't expect everyone to feel the same way about issues sweety, your only setting yourself up for a letdown ;) ohh wait, i'm uneducated since i dont know every little detail of the debate.. i'm an idiot. sorry for giving my opinion ina PUBLIC FORUM where your supposed to give your views.. hahaha.. :down:

Picture 1 (http://www.capveterans.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/obama_s_patriotism.jpg)
Picture 2 (http://www.granitegrok.com/pix/Obama%20Flag.jpg)

THE VIDEO OF OBAMA REFUSING TO SOLUTE TO THE NATIONAL ANTHEM. so much for me being UNEDUCATED huh? :keke: hope you like it boys!
http://www.youtube.com/v/hU9iCANi02o&hl=en&fs=1

US Flag Code states the following:

(a) Designation.— The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.

(b) Conduct During Playing.— During a rendition of the national anthem—

(1) when the flag is displayed—

(A) all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart.

(B) men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart.

(C) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note.

(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

First off, the US Code, for the flag, does not state what you posted.
The actual "US Flag Code" can be found at Title 4 USC Chapter 1 Sections 1-10 (http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t01t04+11219+52++%28%29 %20%20AND%20%28%284%29%20ADJ%20USC%29%3ACITE%20%20 %20%20%20%20%20%20%20)

The US Code you posted is found in entirely different section. See the following link. Title 36 Subtitle 1 Part A Chapter 3 § 301 (http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t33t36+1622+1++%28%29%2 0%20AND%20%28%2836%29%20ADJ%20USC%29%3ACITE%20AND% 20%28USC%20w%2F10%20%28301%29%29%3ACITE%20%20%20%2 0%20%20%20%20%20)

Anyway, if you are going to post the US code find the actual governmental source for others to read, rather than hearsay.

[WERDdabuilder]

who cares who McCain choose for a VP. Vp's are useless.

......http://www.honda-tech.com/zeroavatar/192549

seriously has to be the #1 uneducated things ever said on zilvia and i see why you live in garbage grove.

but yeah, i remember back in high school when we would have to do the pledge of allegiance. im an atheist and i didn't stand and the teacher took me out to have a pep talk ha. she asked if i can just stand. and i LOVE AMERICA.

[jonasblack]

a vp has replaced a prez. only nine times in history. Ford being the last one to do so when Nixon resigned. IMHO vp don't due much. that is how the founding fathers designed it.

John Adams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Adams), the first vice president, described it as "the most insignificant office that ever the invention of man contrived or his imagination conceived."

[aa87]

9 times out of 43 is pretty significant. In your own opinion, logic fails. Are we getting trolled? Who cares what John adams said back then, its still a big deal.

[boro otaku]

I think I like Sarah Palin.
I agree. People keep saying "oh what if mccain dies and she takes office?" Ummmm, she'll kick butt. She doesn't put up with government waste and isn't afraid to challenge the "old boys" clogging up this country.

+1 for Palin :love:

[aa87]

I agree. People keep saying "oh what if mccain dies and she takes office?" Ummmm, she'll kick butt. She doesn't put up with government waste and isn't afraid to challenge the "old boys" clogging up this country.

+1 for Palin :love:

Irony isnt it, Will mccain be in her way then being the oldest boy there?

Doo doo che!

[jonasblack]

9 times out of 43 is pretty significant. In your own opinion, logic fails. Are we getting trolled? Who cares what John adams said back then, its still a big deal.


9 times in 219 years is NOT Significant.
People have served more than one term.

And I think we all care what people had to say back then. they did write our constitution.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

It's really idiotic to come on here completely uneducated about either candidate and start spewing nonsense about EITHER candidate. Someone should start reading bio's instead of their grandmas chain letters.....I'm staring at you 240chick

[boro otaku]

Will mccain be in her way then being the oldest boy there?
IMHO no, but I'm not going to e-argue to change anyone's mind :2f2f:

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Irony isnt it, Will mccain be in her way then being the oldest boy there?

Doo doo che!

Well, when she meant "good ol' boys" she referred to Alaska's previous corrupt regime, half of which might spend some time in jail. She was also referring to Ted Steven's "bridge to nowhere" which she is ON THE RECORD in 2006 to fully support. Now that Ted Stevens is definitely going to be spending time in jail, and on her biggest public speech mind you, she flat out lies and states that she "stared congress (Ted Stevens) in the face and said thanks but no thanks." She is a FLAT OUT LIAR.....but I'd still face pump the shit out of her :snoop:

[Gnnr]

US Flag Code states the following:

(a) Designation.— The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.

(b) Conduct During Playing.— During a rendition of the national anthem—

(1) when the flag is displayed—

(A) all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart.

(B) men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart.

(C) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note.

(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

Then they are ALL violating the code for having their backs to the Flag. So what is your point?

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Then they are ALL violating the code for having their backs to the Flag. So what is your point?
Her info is coming from right field. Pay no attention.

Here's something interesting. Palin might have been helped by....get this.....a blog (http://www.slate.com/id/2198949/?y=1)

[rubelcon]

......http://www.honda-tech.com/zeroavatar/192549

seriously has to be the #1 uneducated things ever said on zilvia

If it's not #1, it's near the top of the pile. :snoop:

[illvialuver]

what do i think? i think it sucks.
you got the dems with a guy who looks black but is more like a rich white guy. I would much rather vote for PHLIP than for obama. all in all its going to be the same.
the reps have a guy that is the same as bush but more hardcore. and angry and sneaky which is why he picked an inexperienced vp cause she is a woman from the oil state of alaska, and will help sway the old hillary voters that wanted to vote for a woman.
and I highly doubt that america will ever be a nation of one religion let alone turning muslem. i almost dont want to vote. the idea buts a bad taste in my mouth.

[imotion s14]

you have your opinions. My opinions are based on half of what I see and half of what I hear. I HOPE Obama can change and there's no disputing the fact that when Clinton was pres we were better off

It's not really an opinion. I can prove my "opinion" with hard data from the US Treasury.

One only needs to know what a budget is to understand what a budget surplus is.

Budget (from french bougette, purse) generally refers to a list of all planned expenses and revenues. A budget is an important concept in microeconomics, which uses a budget line to illustrate the trade-offs between two or more goods. In other terms, a budget is an organizational plan stated in monetary terms.

You can go look at the national debt at the US treasury website for each fiscal year Clinton was in office. To his credit he didn't have the massive deficit spending of previous presidents, nor the massive deficit from Bush II.

The "90s" were good because of 2 things. Little deficit spending (cold war was over) and the dot.com bubble.

The idea that there was a "surplus" during his years is nothing more than people not reading the "budget" in "budget surplus". People look at the world "surplus" and think the government took in more then it spent while not noticing that the national debt increased a bit during those years.

Let's look at it this way. If you spent $10 on scratch off tickets and won 8 dollars, did you REALLY win? That's basically Clinton in the 1990s. He didn't do the type of damage Bush II did, but there still was some deficit spending and he did come very close to balancing the budget. I'd say Bush II was winning 8 dollars after buying $100 dollars in scratch offs.

Yes we did have it very good in the 1990s but Clinton had NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to do with the tech bubble of the 1990s. The government didn't pump capital into all those dot.coms that made their investors rich overnight and boosted the entire economy. He also had nothing to do with it when the market corrected itself and these internet millionaires became poor as fast as they became rich and the economy felt the bubble pop.

It's funny how they take credit for the highs but never for the lows. :keke:

[rubelcon]

I agree. People keep saying "oh what if mccain dies and she takes office?" Ummmm, she'll kick butt. She doesn't put up with government waste and isn't afraid to challenge the "old boys" clogging up this country.

+1 for Palin :love:

umm.. Have you followed her track record in Alaska?


and on a whole other note, opinions should not be based on what you see and hear, rather what you read and research. Just don't drink the kool-aid.

[Matej]

Obama's campaign = Hope blablabla hope hope.
McCain's campaign = Don't vote Obama, vote me me me.

Oh great, thanks for the insightful information on what you two plan on doing.

The worst thing is that most people don't even care to research anything or educate themselves on the real world issues, their biggest concerns are who has more patriotism, who folds the flag correctly, who is what sex and skin color, who spent more time in the army, or who goes to church every Sunday. What's even more sad is that those people seem to be the majority in America.
A candidate who speaks of raising taxes? They're done. All while the national debt keeps growing, but hey, that's not our problem, the only things I care about is not paying higher taxes and that my president is able to recite the Pledge of Allegiance backwards in his sleep.

Sometimes I begin loosing faith in democracy, it doesn't work when most people are dumb or ignorant. Everyone should be required to take an IQ test before casting their vote.

[imotion s14]

Sometimes I begin loosing faith in democracy, it doesn't work when most people are dumb or ignorant. Everyone should be required to take an IQ test before casting their vote.

That's the thing tho.. we're not a democracy. We're a constitutional republic that uses a democratic system to choose our executive and legislative representatives.

The way mass media is set up to fed people information without them having to think much about it.

Fuck it, let's just blame the Baby Boomers.

[drift freaq]

Obama's campaign = Hope blablabla hope hope.
McCain's campaign = Don't vote Obama, vote me me me.

Oh great, thanks for the insightful information on what you two plan on doing.

The worst thing is that most people don't even care to research anything or educate themselves on the real world issues, their biggest concerns are who has more patriotism, who folds the flag correctly, who is what sex and skin color, who spent more time in the army, or who goes to church every Sunday. What's even more sad is that those people seem to be the majority in America.
A candidate who speaks of raising taxes? They're done. All while the national debt keeps growing, but hey, that's not our problem, the only things I care about is not paying higher taxes and that my president is able to recite the Pledge of Allegiance backwards in his sleep.

Sometimes I begin loosing faith in democracy, it doesn't work when most people are dumb or ignorant. Everyone should be required to take an IQ test before casting their vote.

Wow I am impressed by your post. Its one of the best I have ever seen you make. This was done with intelligence, now don't lose faith Matej learn more and work for it.

[shishcabobers]

Fuck it, let's just blame the Baby Boomers.

lol at baby boomers, thanks to them my social security is going to be useless when I'm old.

[drift freaq]

Well actually, I live in Northwest Indiana (still a Chicago suburb and literally 5 minutes from the Illinois border and right in the thick of the Chicago media market), but I work in Chicago. I read Chicago newspapers, and all my news channels are Chicago news channels. Still, it doesn't take a genius to see through Obama's bullshit. Hell, for all i know he does have the best of intentions and all the love in the world for this country. But, I have yet to hear him say exactly how he plans to accomplish everything he says he will. You watch the news, you see Obama say "I plan to reduce the number of troops in the middle east, I plan to give every poor person healthcare, I plan to "change" America." I have yet to be convinced that he knows how to do any of these things. I like his message, but unless he can pull off half his promises without sending taxes through the roof, he can keep his change. I have been aware of Obama from the day he was elected, but even working IN his congressional district, I havent seen any spectacular change for the better.
*EDIT* I found a video that pretty much sums up my pessimism towards his platform.
YouTube - Obama's Former Chicago District in ruins. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBofMELuSMA&feature=related)

It doesnt really matter if its McCain or Obama anyways, it takes more than a president to change the country. However, I see Obama's weakness and inability to lead in a somewhat positive light. In my opinion, Congress should be the most powerful branch of government. Bush has that balance of power all upended.

In all honesty, I like McCain's message better (eliminate wasteful spending, shrink government), but I dont know if I can believe anything the Republican party is putting out. After all, Bush ran on a small government, balanced budget, non-interventionalist platform when he won in 2000.



And Obama has actually been the head of which governmental body? The way I see it, she has more leadership experience than McCain, Obama, and Biden combined. Dont try and tell me that his three or so years of being in the Senate makes him any more qualified than Palin. And, for a large chunk of that time, Obama was on the campaign trail. I realize that Obama has been in the State senate since 1997, but I put that on the same level as Palin being mayor of a town.

Do not judge the Republican party on Bush. I am not Republican but I am intelligent enough to see that Bush was not your average or regular Republican. Beyond that Cheney and Rumsfield called a lot of shots.

Honestly you need a balance of either a Democratic president with a Republican congress or a Republican president with a Democratic congress for the sake of checks and balances.
Put a Republican president with a Republican congress and it would go to far one way its the same with a Democratic president with a Democratic congress. Right now we have a Democratic Majority in Congress. Now if that changes then a Democratic president would not be an issue. Though....

I will say this Palin has been the Governor of a State. In my opinion that can be a larger achievement than being a junior congressman aka Obama.
Obama has spent most of his time campaigning. Telling people what that want to hear.
Meanwhile Palin has been running a state. Oh and the funny thing about all of this is no one is talking about Biden. Why ? He is pretty much a hack. I said this before I will say it again, not in these exact words but McCain made a very savy move picking Palin.

[drift freaq]

lol at baby boomers, thanks to them my social security is going to be useless when I'm old.

LOL at you. You think the baby boomers wrecked your social security. Go back and start studying young man. Social Security is not even working for baby boomers. Oh and glad to see you hate your parents.

[shishcabobers]

LOL at you. You think the baby boomers wrecked your social security. Go back and start studying young man. Social Security is not even working for baby boomers. Oh and glad to see you hate your parents.

oops...i fail

[ronmcdon]

What I find most questionable about having Palin as VP, in terms of winning the election for McCain), is her overtly conservative stance. it's not the best choice if your intention is to win over the moderates and Clinton supporters (as indicated by the McCain ads of recent).

Ya, the women vote might be important, but I find it difficult to believe that there isn't another female choice that isn't so far to the right. With the endorsement of Bush, and the prospect of having Obama as president, I don't think it's the conservative voters that McCain should be worried about courting.

What I do like about Palin is her oratory skills (a quality obviously not to be underestimated), her executive experience, her disdain for corruption, and what I would consider to be a very charismatic personality. In some ways, it makes for some of McCain's perceived shortcomings, but I'm not so sure it is enough either.

Biden is a logical choice, but it is a bit dull. I am still not all that convinced with Obama's rhetoric either. The Democratic convention was entertaining, but not really all that informative either. Really kinda wish Hillary got the nomination instead. At least with the Clintons you know what to expect, and things can't get that out of hand either. I would have most likely supported them over McCain if she was the D candidate.

I'm still undecided, but I'm sure things will be fun to watch in the upcoming months (here in the US, as well as abroad). Unless something drastic happens, I'm putting my $$$ on Obama winning the election.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

I will say this Palin has been the Governor of a State. In my opinion that can be a larger achievement than being a junior congressman aka Obama.
Obama has spent most of his time campaigning. Telling people what that want to hear.
Meanwhile Palin has been running a state. Oh and the funny thing about all of this is no one is talking about Biden. Why ? He is pretty much a hack. I said this before I will say it again, not in these exact words but McCain made a very savy move picking Palin.
I am republican also and am disgusted by the pick of McCain and Palin. Palin is the Governor of the 47th most popular state and has only been in charge for 20 months! Her entire justification to why she was picked was because she helped end corruption in a very corrupt Alaska. Well....escuse me....but she's being investigated for firing her ex brother in law for divorcing her sister. She also approved the famous "bridge to nowhere" before Ted Stevens was indited. To me, she's a hail mary pass attempting to draw in the FAAAAARRRRR right wing and religious freaks. Those crazies will do their campaigning for the McCain camp and, what's the saying?....one person screams in a crowd of whisperers....something like that.

[98s14inaz]

Then they are ALL violating the code for having their backs to the Flag. So what is your point?

There was a flag on a pole off camera. The one behind them was just for effect. That is the one everyone was facing.

[ALTRNTV]

I watched Palin speak last night at the RNC. She sure
does have charisma and speaking ability. I would
also hit that, damn MILF.

http://i35.tinypic.com/34oob3m.gif
Clintowned.

[LeftNutOfGowd]

I watched Palin speak last night at the RNC. She sure
does have charisma and speaking ability. I would
also hit that, damn MILF.


MILF indeed i would do some nasty unspeakable things to her lol damn she looks good for being in her 40's

[ALTRNTV]

Yes, unspeakable things indeed. Sort of like porn-style.
ahahaha

[stiizy]

^^ I was thinking that as i watched it also like damn she could get it...

[RJF]

lol at baby boomers, thanks to them my social security is going to be useless when I'm old.

That's why we need privitization, where a portion of our social security tax can go into a private account that we can manage ourselves (stocks, bonds, CDs).

[ronmcdon]

privatization or not, everyone with ought to save for retirement anyways.
it's not as if you can pay for much with a social security check anyhow.

[jspaeth]

I don't plan on registering.

Jury duty.

Fuck that.

:cops:

There is a big difference between respecting your country and respecting the current regime running your country. I meet some people who voted for George Bush for both terms and I can only think to myself... really? They let you vote? I am all in favor of an IQ test when you register to vote.



I never said that, that's how you took it.

I simply said it was the funniest thing I read all day because you said you saw it on the news so it must be true...

Now I will though.


I would have voted for him both times, and can guarantee to you with 99.99%+ certainty (yes that number was chosen for a reason) that my IQ is higher than yours.

[exitspeed]

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, thank you very much, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, thank you very much,Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, thank you very much,Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, thank you very much,Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, thank you very much...

[Matej]

Sarah Palin:
War in Iraq is God's Plan.

:ugh:

[ESmorz]

Sarah Palin:
War in Iraq is "God's Plan."

:ugh:

Everything is Gods plan. :rofl:

I'm watching the speech right now. If I was any more un-enthused I'd start poking myself in the eyes.

Roberta McCain looks like the crypt keeper.

[ronmcdon]

Palin is really getting on my nerves. The recent speech she gave at the R convention had so much spite and lack of substance. There is something eerily fanatical about this woman. Truly terrible choice. McCain's lost this election for sure, and I have certainly lost all faith in his campaign. 'moderate' my ass. first the neo-cons, now this crap. the republicans might as well be the "religious right party". The GOP is a farce right now.

[Matej]

Palin is really getting on my nerves. There is something eerily fanatical about this woman. Truly terrible choice.
Weird, whenever I hear her speak, she makes me think of the religious lady from The Mist.


This was a very strange republican convention in my opinion.
Basically, what they were openly saying is, if you want change, vote republicans into the White House, so they can fix the eight years worth of damage done by republicans in the White House.

[ESmorz]

Palin is really getting on my nerves. There is something eerily fanatical about this woman. Truly terrible choice.

Yeah fuck Alaska and fuck Sarah Palin.

That is all.

:angel:

[lflkajfj12123]

i would lay pole on sarah palin

BBNR

[ESmorz]

i would lay pole on sarah palin

BBNR

I wouldn't

18-year old vagina

or

40 something year old vagina which has countless wieners and babies put through it.


:lfault:

[ronmcdon]

Sarah Palin:
War in Iraq is God's Plan.

:ugh:

and so will be McCain's inevitable defeat for choosing such a horrid VP.
sounds something like what Bin Laden would say.

[aa87]

So cash. Local republicans running for congress want to bring the kingdom back to washington. Ohweesomee.

[!Zar!]

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c391/TurboDrifterZar/O-FaceT.jpg
We hommies like that.

[98s14inaz]

I wouldn't

18-year old vagina

or

40 something year old vagina which has countless wieners and babies put through it.


:lfault:

At least you know she puts out :rimshot:

[stiizy]

Did no one else feel and understand what McCain was saying????

[LeftNutOfGowd]

PARTY

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg246/rborroel21/GIf/noname.gif

[WERDdabuilder]

YouTube - Sarah Palin: War in Iraq is "God's Plan" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H-btXPfhGs)

crazy bitch.

[Jimmy Up]

I like Obama on this one.

I think that his outlook and want for (I know its used WAY too much) CHANGE is what we, as a country, need right now- before World War III takes all our Nissans away...

With that said, I too EDIT: digg Republican VP nominee. :D

[SlideWell]

i'd pork Palin then go democrat
hellllooo mother would you like a-nother :bigok:

[Matej]

McCain and Palin were about a mile away from my house today. Out of all the places, they decided to have their rally at a retirement community haha, obviously their target voter group.

[Jimmy Up]

So I am watching Charley Gibson's interview on Palin and here is what I have concluded:

Palin INSISTS on saying "Charley" in every sentence.

Palin has no idea what is going on in the real U.S. (no disrespect to Alaska and Hawaii)

The words 'yes' and 'no' are not in her vocab

Charley Gibson could very well be Batman


ALL said:

Charley Gibson > Sarah Palin

[WanganRunner]

Charley Gibson > Sarah Palin

Yeah, her biggest goofs were:

1.) The Bush Doctrine thing. It's not necessarily that bad that she didn't know what it was, but it was bad that she tried to make a bunch of shit up. She also looked visibly annoyed when asked about it, and it's never good to look annoyed. Gibson called her on it hard though, so now he's my new favorite human.

2.) The part where Gibson effectively gets her to reverse her long-held conviction about man's impact on global warming on camera. She could have just as easily said that she & McCain disagree, but noooooo. She had to allow herself to get forced into switching positions right then and there, which was positively epic.

3.) That she had to revert to talking about things like how they can see Russia from Alaska. WHO GIVES A SHIT.

4.) She obviously gets a little flustered when forced to go off-message. This had been reported by the Alaskan press also, but it's good to see that it's true. I hope more people grill her.

[WERDdabuilder]

So I am watching Charley Gibson's interview on Palin and here is what I have concluded:

Palin INSISTS on saying "Charley" in every sentence.

Palin has no idea what is going on in the real U.S. (no disrespect to Alaska and Hawaii)

The words 'yes' and 'no' are not in her vocab

Charley Gibson could very well be Batman


ALL said:

Charley Gibson > Sarah Palin

haha i seen some parts of it..

"is that a YES or a NO"
asked her that like 20x ha.

[LeftNutOfGowd]

God damn this election crap is still going on man just pick someone and get it over with lol.

[cuddlesthesheep]

So I am watching Charley Gibson's interview on Palin and here is what I have concluded:

Palin INSISTS on saying "Charley" in every sentence.


Charley Gibson > Sarah Palin


this is bad news. psychology teachers will tell you that saying someones name, and not to mention what he was probably called as a child instead of calling his charles.. or even leaving his name out of it, is a way of showing dominance. Its kinda like i am the mother you are the child and i need to keep showing it that i am in control. Kinda fucked up and my psychology professor talked about it today and how this should be brought up in the media.

[Phlip]

YouTube - McCain's YouTube Problem Just Became a Nightmare (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c)

[sub9lulu]

ron paul might be the only one that know what he is talking about
where is he now ?

[bardabe]

i just dont liked palin's idea to consider birth control an abortion and trying put an end to it....

[Matej]

Palin seems like if she could have unlimited power she would be the female Stalin.

[deolio]

mccain needs to get off george's balls, not get him off...

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r163/InsultComicDog/mccain-g.gif

[ESmorz]

Fuck the election.

I just found out that if you make exhaust noises into a empty soda can it genuinely sounds like a honda.

[WERDdabuilder]

YouTube - Barack Obama is an Arab? "Keep 'em scared my friends!" The new McCain/Palin slogan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpE6ljPjSAk)

nice to know that these are the types of people that vote...

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

YouTube - Barack Obama is an Arab? "Keep 'em scared my friends!" The new McCain/Palin slogan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpE6ljPjSAk)

nice to know that these are the types of people that vote...
YouTube - "Obama Is An Arab"-Says McCain Volunteer In Letters (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8XmerZEyHE&feature=related)

And THAT's her explanation! sad to see that the local McCain supporters where she lives actually creates and distributes flyers that promote lies. Also, her local library knows something that the rest of the world doesn't know!!! :aw:

But did anyone hear the undercover camera at the McCain rally where people where interviewed saying "someone kill that terrorist!" and other things. FOX News has been saying all along that that doesn't go on and McCain rallies are peaceful. Well FOX News, you just got served a big helping of wrong.

IMPORTANT!!!

If you live in a state like Ca where Obama is going to win in a landslide then do this nation a favor and vote Bob Barr. If the Libertarians receive 5% of the popular vote then the party will receive equal funding from the government and will eventually we'll become a 3 party system instead of a 2 party system! Do it for the country!

[RJF]

And Obama supporters are such angels and do nothing wrong

Pair arrested after McCain sign torched in Sellwood | KATU.com - Portland, Oregon | News (http://www.katu.com/news/30847164.html)

WOW Staffers Also Wear Sarah Palin C*nt T-Shirts : Stop The ACLU (http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2008/10/13/wow-staffers-also-wear-sarah-palin-cnt-t-shirts/)

[mondojackal]

^thanks for that, RJF.. i'm glad that someone mentioned the other side of the "argument"

it seems that everyone just bashes the side they don't support, and then argues repeatedly.

i'm ready for the election to be over. i'm sick and tired of hearing about nothing but the election.

that being said, i hate having to vote for "the lesser of two evils" as i see it. i dont really like either candidate, and so i'm just having to decide which i dislike less. that's a really sucky way to have to choose the new leader and figurehead of our country.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Do what I do and try to stage a revolution.

So far it's gotten me nowhere but ostracized, but I'm still trying.

[RJF]

Proves a point....most don't even know the issues

iCipmnYCKB0

[Phlip]

How about the issue of throwing rocks and hiding your hands?

Former McCain Supporter: McCain Is "Unleashing the Monster of American Prejudice" | Rights and Liberties | AlterNet (http://www.alternet.org/rights/102837/former_mccain_supporter%3A_mccain_is_%22unleashing _the_monster_of_american_prejudice%22/?page=entire)

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

And Obama supporters are such angels and do nothing wrong

Pair arrested after McCain sign torched in Sellwood | KATU.com - Portland, Oregon | News (http://www.katu.com/news/30847164.html)

WOW Staffers Also Wear Sarah Palin C*nt T-Shirts : Stop The ACLU (http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2008/10/13/wow-staffers-also-wear-sarah-palin-cnt-t-shirts/)
so is it equal for someone to call a woman a cunt or to threaten someones life and even attempt to kill? not every mccain supporters are racist and not every obama supporter burns signs but truthfully there is no other side of the story. to try to discredit death threats by showing the word cunt on a tshirt is just false.
but remember rjf, i'm voting barr but i recognize obama to be the best of the two major candidates.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Proves a point....most don't even know the issues

iCipmnYCKB0
I think it's just retarded to say MOST don't know the issues. I think if you ask any 13 year old who McCain's and Obama's running mate they'd know at least that Palin was McCain's. MOST people in this country would know that Obama wants to get out of Iraq and McCain wants to stay. This was also the Howard Stern show where they probably came across 20 people before finding these gems. But next time please don't quote a radio show as fact, no matter how much that radio show kicks ass.

[RJF]

Who's playing the race card?

McCain or Palin have not mentioned anything once. McCain has even rebuked his supporters for using Obama's middle name of Hussein.

It's Obama or his supporters.

Obama - "I don't look like any of those Presidents on the dollar bill"

Rep. Lewis (D-Georgia) - comparing McCain to George Wallace


Find me one quote from McCain or Palin.

[Antihero983]

Proves a point....most don't even know the issues



Including Palin. Fucking christ listening to her speak makes me dumber by the minute I swear. :tweak:

[LeftNutOfGowd]

I'm with you on that Red she always does the run around. I'm just waiting for her porno to come out lol

[RJF]

I'm with you on that Red she always does the run around. I'm just waiting for her porno to come out lol

Point in case.....instead of talking accomplishments and experience....personal attacks and name calling against opponents.


Name three significant accomplishments of Obama during his career or actual reasons why you are voting for him.

[40daws]

This will give all you all the reason you need to NOT vote for Mccain.
Make-Believe Maverick : Rolling Stone (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain)

Now if I were a McCaintist---I would encourage them in this last few weeks to come out
with a sex tape. Palin and her hubby. Win column.

And for you Palinists.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/23318320/mad_dog_palin
Here's what Sarah Palin represents: being a fat fucking pig who pins "Country First" buttons on his man titties and chants "U-S-A! U-S-A!" at the top of his lungs while his kids live off credit cards and Saudis buy up all the mortgages in Kansas.



Happy reading.

[Antihero983]

Point in case.....instead of talking accomplishments and experience....personal attacks and name calling against opponents.


Name three significant accomplishments of Obama during his career or actual reasons why you are voting for him.

Ugh I swear RJF you don't read anything I post, you just skim it and forget about it.

I have previously stated in other threads I DO NOT LIKE ANY OF THE FUCKING CANIDATES.

But it just so happens that Palin's ignorant ass bothers there everliving fuck out of me.

do you want me to go in depth as to why I don't like any of them, or was this sufficient?

[RJF]

I have previously stated in other threads I DO NOT LIKE ANY OF THE FUCKING CANIDATES.


The question just wasn't meant for you but for everyone else who said they're voting for Obama and making disparaging comments against McCain or Palin.


But it just so happens that Palin's ignorant ass bothers there everliving fuck out of me.


Can you translate, please?

[Phlip]

This will give all you all the reason you need to NOT vote for Mccain.
Make-Believe Maverick : Rolling Stone (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain)

Now if I were a McCaintist---I would encourage them in this last few weeks to come out
with a sex tape. Palin and her hubby. Win column.

And for you Palinists.

Mad Dog Palin : Rolling Stone (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/23318320/mad_dog_palin)


Happy reading.
"Happy reading?"
I read that a while ago, I LOVE Matt Taibbi's writing, I've been reading his columns on another site for a couple years now.

[Antihero983]

The question just wasn't meant for you but for everyone else who said they're voting for Obama and making disparaging comments against McCain or Palin.



Can you translate, please?
Simple.

She opens her mouth about shit she has blantantly no idea about constantly, and the whole "oh i'm a hockey mom" thing is FUCKING OLD.

Ok so you got knocked up, popped out a fucking kid, and take them to sporting events. that is supposed ot make me rally behind you? :blah:

no.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

McCain now wants to bail out all the fuckheads that paid a zillion fucking dollars on a 2 bedroom house in buttfucktown, Ca and bail out their morgage. Who's the Democrat again? It just seems that Obama and McCain are now trying to outspend eachother! For FUCKS SAKE someone get a Libertarian in the presidency!

Also why does America always have to go from one extreme to the other like the grass is greener, not on the other side of the hill, on the complete opposite side of the earth!!! But then again, if we stay the course then we are all FUCKED!

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Simple.

She opens her mouth about shit she has blantantly no idea about constantly, and the whole "oh i'm a hockey mom" thing is FUCKING OLD.

Ok so you got knocked up, popped out a fucking kid, and take them to sporting events. that is supposed ot make me rally behind you? :blah:

no.
Not only that but she comes out and says "I'm afraid" about everything Obama stands for and that he doesn't love America as much as everyone in the crowd. Now THAT's a scare tactic. She might as well say "I don't like black people". Scare tactics tend to create fear in the simple minded and when the simple minded get scurred they get racist. That's a fact jack

[ESmorz]

We are fucked.

Plain and simple.

If you think otherwise. You are a damn fool.

Get out while you still can.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

We are fucked.

Plain and simple.

If you think otherwise. You are a damn fool.

Get out while you still can.
Also, what was wrong with Obama saying the US isn't what it once was? It certainly is NOT what it once was!

I found this hilarious
YouTube - Robert Gibbs takes on Sean Hannity (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgn6rjGbp0c)
I guess Hannity forgot how exasperating these arguments get.

[RJF]

Not only that but she comes out and says "I'm afraid" about everything Obama stands for and that he doesn't love America as much as everyone in the crowd.

You too should be afraid of what Obama stands for.

1. He was a member of the Socialist Party.

October 1996 Update (http://web.archive.org/web/20010306031216/www.newparty.org/up9610.html)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/SPGGJv1aQ6I/AAAAAAAAWWA/HtCcz9LBYHk/s1600/obama%2Bnew%2Bparty

An Obama link to The New Party first showed him seeking the Party’s endorsement back in 1996. Now an archive of the New Party website shows Obama as a member in 1996:

Three NP-members won Democratic primaries last Spring and face off against Republican opponents on election day: Danny Davis (U.S. House), Barack Obama (State Senate) and Patricia Martin (Cook County Judiciary).

Two other Socialist periodicals independantly confirm Obama as a member of The New Party in 1996. The “Progressive Populist” magazine in November 1996 wrote that Obama was a New Party member who had “won an uncontested seat in Chicago”, while the The Democratic Socialist Party of America published in their July/August Edition of New Ground 47 Newsletter that “the NP’s ‘96 Political Program has been enormously successful with 3 of 4 endorsed candidates winning electoral primaries [....] Barack Obama, victor in the 13th State Senate District, encouraged NPers to join in his task forces on Voter Education and Voter Registration.”

Barack Obama was confronted by a plumber in Ohio this past weekend who was concerned about Obama's proposed tax increases. The plumber asked Obama, "Why do want to raise my taxes?" Obama told the man, "I think when you spread the wealth around it's good for everybody."

If that's not socialism I don't know what is.


2. Rev. Wright, his pastor, friend and mentor hates America. And Obama sat in his church for 20 years and said nothing. Was married in the church and even had his children baptized by the man.


3. Wants to raise taxes. No matter what he says on the campaign trail, his numbers don't add up. 95% of Americans will get tax breaks, yet 40% of Americans don't pay taxes.

The top 25% of incomer earners pay 86% of the taxes in this country.

Taxes and Income - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119786208643933077.html)

Raising taxes will slow economic growth and impact small businesses.

4. Has a questionable relationship with a domestic and unrepentant terrorist, William Ayers, who on 9/11 said "He only wishes he had done more" when talking about his bombings of the Pentagon and other Government buildings, where people died.

A substantial portion of Ayers' book Fugitive Days discusses the author's penchant for building and deploying explosives. Ayers boasts that he "participated in the bombings of New York City Police Headquarters in 1970, of the Capitol building in 1971, and the Pentagon in 1972." Of the day he bombed the Pentagon, Ayers says, "Everything was absolutely ideal. ... The sky was blue. The birds were singing. And the bastards were finally going to get what was coming to them."

What would be said if John McCain had known Timothy McVeigh?

Name three significant accomplishments of Obama during his career or actual reasons why you are voting for him.

I still haven't seen a list of Obama's accomplishments.

[Antihero983]

honestly, I want someone unqualified in there.

why?

because everyone who has been "qualified" has done jack fucking shit.

[ESmorz]

honestly, I want someone unqualified in there.

why?

because everyone who has been "qualified" has done jack fucking shit.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/AvrilH8er13/political.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/AvrilH8er13/political.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/AvrilH8er13/political.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/AvrilH8er13/political.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/AvrilH8er13/political.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/AvrilH8er13/political.jpg

[MaD ViLLaiN]

Well I think for mcaine its become a publicity stunt picking palin to draw in some votes. truth is Palin is definately not ready to be VP, much less take over as president cuz mcaine is like 1000 anyway, and will definately not last his term. We dont want mcaine anyways because it would be exactly more of the same him being a Bush supporter and pretty much wanting to staty the same path, him saying health care is a responsibility, when it should be a damn right! Him and his crew are not what we want in the white house. As for Obama He is not out for publicity so to speak as mcaine, and I dont know much about his history but from what ive seen he has a plan and sticks to the issues But what this election needs to be about is not black not white not female, not making history in the white house. it should only be about whos got a god damn good plan to un-fuck what bush did to this country, we have the lowest employment rate since he took office, we have the highest homeless rate, and now we are heading to a obviouse depression. I served in the army i went to iraq there was no weapons of mass destruction it was about the damn oil! that we cant even take anyways cuz the UN would take a huge shit on us if we even tried. how do i know its about the oil cuz my first several missions over there were to clear occupy and gaurd the oil field/refineries. I feel that obama has shown he has a set plan to lead us out of this crap.

[KA24DESOneThree]

If either candidate says they know the issues, they're lying. There is one single, solitary issue.

Bring America back to its former glory.

That is the only issue we have.

You want to fight for freedom? You're not doing it in Iraq. Hussein's army wasn't about to come over here and censor our papers or search our belongings without our permission. You'll find many enemies of our freedom here. While we're at it, we need to get out of the IMF and tell the UN and NATO to take a hike.

You want your job back? Deregulate the industries and reduce taxes. Stop making it more cost-effective to ship raw materials to other countries so they can do our work for us. Once a country has lost its manufacturing base, everything else begins to crumble. Force the Fed to close and return our money to its true controller. Stop printing so much and stop trying to force band-aids upon the credit market.

You want less taxes? Do without "essential" handouts. Put your hands back in your pockets, or, better yet, on a keyboard, working. Wrap your mitts around a saw or screwdriver or ratchet or wrench; put them at 10 and 2 or on a stethoscope or the Harvard Law Review. Our predecessors didn't have handouts, and they had less technology at their disposal.

Worried about the national debt? John McCain and Barack Obama aren't. They aren't willing to cut back spending by the amount we need. Both of them have neoliberal/neoconservative/socialist views of government's size and scope. Health care is NOT a right. It is up to YOU to take care of YOURSELF. The government was not created to be a nanny for those who cannot care for themselves.

Want to avoid being kept out of your home by machine-gun-equipped troops when a fire or flood comes by? Force them to back the hell off and respect self-reliant people's rights to stay in their home, and let those people keep their firearms to ward off pests.

We need to rein in our representatives and senators and FORCE them to listen to us. We told them what we wanted as far as the bailout bill was concerned (NO!) and they ignored us. No more will our voice go unheard.

Let's face it: the two party system has run its course. On one side we have neoconservative, intolerant people, and on the other side we have neoliberal, intolerant people.

The time for change is now. We cannot continue to operate as the United States of America, a Constitutional Federal Republic, if we ignore the Constitution and have the government's greedy hands in every aspect of our lives.

[MaD ViLLaiN]

Simple.

She opens her mouth about shit she has blantantly no idea about constantly, and the whole "oh i'm a hockey mom" thing is FUCKING OLD.

Ok so you got knocked up, popped out a fucking kid, and take them to sporting events. that is supposed ot make me rally behind you? :blah:

no.

i fell the same dammn way, there using these types of things maybe to relate the the younger voters maybe, but that dont mean this qualifies you to run the damn counry, your the same as millions of other moms shit even single 2 job working moms that still pull this shit off, instead of playing the hockey mom bs how about you talk about how your gonna help the mom out there that cant enjoy what you get to cuz they working 2 jobs just to survive, while theyre kids have no health care, and are sucked into drugs and or gangs cuz theres not enough support to keep kids off the street, to keep kids interested in school and want an education, how about how your gonna make an education affordable to the common working class person. mcain and palin just horrible, i do support obama, but i dont think either one of the cadidates are worth a damn, but obama is the obviouse best pick!

[MaD ViLLaiN]

If either candidate says they know the issues, they're lying. There is one single, solitary issue.

Bring America back to its former glory.

That is the only issue we have.

You want to fight for freedom? You're not doing it in Iraq. Hussein's army wasn't about to come over here and censor our papers or search our belongings without our permission. You'll find many enemies of our freedom here. While we're at it, we need to get out of the IMF and tell the UN and NATO to take a hike.

You want your job back? Deregulate the industries and reduce taxes. Stop making it more cost-effective to ship raw materials to other countries so they can do our work for us. Once a country has lost its manufacturing base, everything else begins to crumble. Force the Fed to close and return our money to its true controller. Stop printing so much and stop trying to force band-aids upon the credit market.

You want less taxes? Do without "essential" handouts. Put your hands back in your pockets, or, better yet, on a keyboard, working.

Worried about the national debt? John McCain and Barack Obama aren't. They aren't willing to cut back spending by the amount we need. Both of them have neoliberal/neoconservative/socialist views of government's size and scope. Health care is NOT a right. It is up to YOU to take care of YOURSELF. The government was not created to be a nanny for those who cannot care for themselves.

Want to avoid being kept out of your home by machine-gun-equipped troops when a fire or flood comes by? Force them to back the hell off and respect self-reliant peoples' rights to stay in their home, and let those people keep their firearms to ward off pests.

We need to rein in our representatives and senators and FORCE them to listen to us. We told them what we wanted as far as the bailout bill was concerned (NO!) and they ignored us. No more will our voice go unheard.

Let's face it: the two party system has run its course. On one side we have neoconservative, intolerant people, and on the other side we have neoliberal, intolerant people.

The time for change is now. We cannot continue to operate as the United States of America, a Constitutional Federal Republic, if we ignore the Constitution and have the government's greedy hands in every aspect of our lives.
i agree with you it is our responsibility to take care of ourselves take initiative to go to a clinic hospitol etc... but when such a huge portion of americans are working a min wage job or cant even land a job, when inflation and costs of living are beyond even a middle class persons salary we have a huge problem,cause as it is our governments responsibility to make such necesities available to its citizens yet they are not. I have a HUGE problem not only with this war but we are also spending millions if not billions investing in providing power health aide food water stabilizing theyre economy and government when we have that same problem here!! and that country doesnt even fukin want us there and continue to try to kill us, this isnt worth the damage its caused over here not to mention the thousands of soldiers lives theyve claimed and families affected by that loss. when health care is out of reach for most families cuz the cost is to much and they chose to put food on the table instead and try there best to keep theyre homes, when so many families and multiple families share a 1 bedroom house with like 18 people living in it. in canada health care is free for all its citizens! we here in the usa live in a time where the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor! after the bailout AIG corporation sent several of its big wigs on a 400,000 dollar fukin vacation on our fukin dime! and claimed its a reward for theyre best employees and they always do this, well i say thats great do it when its from money youve generated not bailout money from our damn taxes used to bail your sorry ass company out of your bad business choices gone bad! not to mention the people said NO to a bailout. I for one think we have a corrupt government, to many people looking out for what gets them rich and keeps them rich, and in a position of power! it has been way pass due for change but when you got a government that can claim 9/11 wasnt an inside job and do a piss poor job of covering it up and yet with so much evidence it was our government that allowed this to happen, with so little evidence there was even a plane that hit the pentagon in the first place, when the official pentagon report of what actually happend had so many things either omitted our changed about witness reports. how are we to set in motion the wheels of change? when they have to much control. the systems is definately flawed! so we go on with our lives with the way things are cuz most people in this country can easily just forget ignore and move on cuz its convenient its nearly impossible to make things change the days of overthrowing a government are long gone at least in this country. but god knows we need it.

[KA24DESOneThree]

i agree with you it is our responsibility to take care of ourselves take initiative to go to a clinic hospitol etc... but when such a huge portion of americans are working a min wage job or cant even land a job, when inflation and costs of living are beyond even a middle class persons salary we have a huge problem,cause as it is our governments responsibility to make such necesities available to its citizens yet they are not. I have a HUGE problem not only with this war but we are also spending millions if not billions investing in providing power health aide food water stabilizing theyre economy and government when we have that same problem here!! and that country doesnt even fukin want us there and continue to try to kill us, this isnt worth the damage its caused over here not to mention the thousands of soldiers lives theyve claimed and families affected by that loss. when health care is out of reach for most families cuz the cost is to much and they chose to put food on the table instead and try there best to keep theyre homes, when so many families and multiple families share a 1 bedroom house with like 18 people living in it. in canada health care is free for all its citizens! we here in the usa live in a time where the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor! after the bailout AIG corporation sent several of its big wigs on a 400,000 dollar fukin vacation on our fukin dime! and claimed its a reward for theyre best employees and they always do this, well i say thats great do it when its from money youve generated not bailout money from our damn taxes used to bail your sorry ass company out of your bad business choices gone bad! not to mention the people said NO to a bailout. I for one think we have a corrupt government, to many people looking out for what gets them rich and keeps them rich, and in a position of power! it has been way pass due for change but when you got a government that can claim 9/11 wasnt an inside job and do a piss poor job of covering it up and yet with so much evidence it was our government that allowed this to happen, with so little evidence there was even a plane that hit the pentagon in the first place, when the official pentagon report of what actually happend had so many things either omitted our changed about witness reports. how are we to set in motion the wheels of change? when they have to much control. the systems is definately flawed! so we go on with our lives with the way things are cuz most people in this country can easily just forget ignore and move on cuz its convenient its nearly impossible to make things change the days of overthrowing a government are long gone at least in this country. but god knows we need it.

Jesus Christ, the enter key is there for a reason. Make paragraphs.

It is not the government's responsibility to make health care available to the citizen. The government governs, it does not coddle. If you want to be coddled, emigrate or hope some charity takes pity on you. Otherwise, work harder and work smarter.

In Canada, they pay 5% more per capita in taxes.

The rich stay rich and the poor stay poor? Oh please. People get where they want to get.

The top 1% pay about 33% of the taxes. Do they receive 33% of the benefits? The top 50% pay about 96% of the taxes. Do they receive 96% of the benefits? The rich pay for the poor. Have since 1913.

[Matej]

In my opinion it should be the government's responsibility to make sure that the people of their nation are happy and able to enjoy high living standards, which includes tax-funded health care.

It's easy to say if you don't like it here then get out, but it's not so easy to do. I'm pretty sure you'd actually see a steady stream of "emigration" if America wasn't surrounded by two oceans. You can't just drive or take a cheap bus or train across the border and try your luck in a different country, and if things don't work out you come back a few weeks later, as is common across Europe.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

I still haven't seen a list of Obama's accomplishments.
you could be afraid if you want but the smear campaign against Obama is reaching.

You want accomplishments? Here's a few:
His sponsorship of a bill that insured 150k ppl, including 70k cpreviously uninsured children
How about his contribution to the Ethics legislation while he was at the state house and in the senate
Or how about his work on the Illinois Immigration Bill?

There's 3 but there's much more, including election reform bills and the Cooperative Proliferation Detection reduction act.

There ARE some that do do their homework and actually chose which side they are going to lye on and not just follow the crowd. You pretend like if EVERYONE did their homework on Obama then they'd change their minds about him.
He'll make a good president, and with the polls the way they are it looks like that's going to be a certainty.

[ESmorz]

you could be afraid if you want but the smear campaign against Obama is reaching.

You want accomplishments? Here's a few:
His sponsorship of a bill that insured 150k ppl, including 70k cpreviously uninsured children
How about his contribution to the Ethics legislation while he was at the state house and in the senate
Or how about his work on the Illinois Immigration Bill?

There's 3 but there's much more, including election reform bills and the Cooperative Proliferation Detection reduction act.

There ARE some that do do their homework and actually chose which side they are going to lye on and not just follow the crowd. You pretend like if EVERYONE did their homework on Obama then they'd change their minds about him.
He'll make a good president, and with the polls the way they are it looks like that's going to be a certainty.

Seriously.

Stop defending Obama.

He is the exact same as any other candidate in the past 100 years. Screened and ok'd by the people who really run the show. Nothing drastic will happen because of him. He is nothing but someone ready to be a nice show figure with the powers that be hand up his ass.

:tinhat:

[RJF]

you could be afraid if you want but the smear campaign against Obama is reaching.

You want accomplishments? Here's a few:
His sponsorship of a bill that insured 150k ppl, including 70k cpreviously uninsured children
How about his contribution to the Ethics legislation while he was at the state house and in the senate
Or how about his work on the Illinois Immigration Bill?

There's 3 but there's much more, including election reform bills and the Cooperative Proliferation Detection reduction act.

There ARE some that do do their homework and actually chose which side they are going to lye on and not just follow the crowd. You pretend like if EVERYONE did their homework on Obama then they'd change their minds about him.
He'll make a good president, and with the polls the way they are it looks like that's going to be a certainty.

Oh wow...that changes everything. :keke:

1. Insurance legislation...more spending to bloat government
2. Ethics legislation....he must not have read that one since his biggest contributor is a convicted felon
3. Immigration Bill...another good one, I'm seeing results everywhere
4. Election Reform.....another fine example considering ACORN (who Obama paid $800,000) and their voter registration is the biggest fraud ever

He's the slickest "used car salesman" to ever come along. Talks a great game and makes everyone feel good, but when it comes down to it, we're all going to get screwed. I just hope everyone is ready for a bad time, because this is going to be "Jimmy Carter - The Sequel" and I'm old enough to remember the gas lines, unemployment at 8% and inflation at 12%

[MaD ViLLaiN]

Jesus Christ, the enter key is there for a reason. Make paragraphs.

It is not the government's responsibility to make health care available to the citizen. The government governs, it does not coddle. If you want to be coddled, emigrate or hope some charity takes pity on you. Otherwise, work harder and work smarter.

In Canada, they pay 5% more per capita in taxes.

The rich stay rich and the poor stay poor? Oh please. People get where they want to get.

The top 1% pay about 33% of the taxes. Do they receive 33% of the benefits? The top 50% pay about 96% of the taxes. Do they receive 96% of the benefits? The rich pay for the poor. Have since 1913.

geez sorry didnt realize i was being graded on this, sorry for the no enter then. So you mean to say its the citizens job to make sure health care is available? its the citizens job to make jobs available? well if its our job as citizens to do such things whos job is it to make these things realisticaly attainable for the average or better yet less than average family whos income wont allow such privilages so to say, if healthcare is not a right, they are privilages then?!?! i am no wise guy but i thought the government and those in power had a responsibility to represent the PEOPLE and demand that the american way of life is attainable. and if that is not theyre role than WTF?! it should be way to many people die each year cuz theyre turned away due to no health care!

Yeah the rich pay a lot more in taxes but they can afford it, im not saying that makes it right. but
Many of those people who paid no federal income tax paid no tax because they are barely supporting their families from paycheck to paycheck and they legitimately owed no taxes to the government.
They paid sales tax. They spent money. They paid unemployement. They paid medicare. They do all they can.
But Bush and the republican party does not want them to get any relief. Only if you made enough to support your family and still owed taxes should you get anything according to them.
Here’s the kicker. One guy works at mcdonalds and has taxes taken out of his check every week. He files his taxes. He gets all of it back because he was supporting his family just barely.
The other guy works construction. Doesn’t have taxes taken out of his check, but pays the amount that he owes at the end of the year. And hes owed only a little money because he made more than the fry cook. He deserves a break while the fry cook doesn’t?
Guy number three is a bigshot at XYZ corp. and makes over $100,000 per year. Doing well. So he gets the biggest break of all.
This is the bush logic of stimulating the economy? Give more money to the people that have more money? They have money in savings. The fry cook doesn’t.
my point is this system doesnt work well and its painfully obviouse now with the crap economy there is now, of course the rich are still rich, and the poor are getting poorer just trying to survive and keep from being homeless jobless carless etc.

[RJF]

This is the bush logic of stimulating the economy? Give more money to the people that have more money? They have money in savings. The fry cook doesn’t.
my point is this system doesnt work well and its painfully obviouse now with the crap economy there is now, of course the rich are still rich, and the poor are getting poorer just trying to survive and keep from being homeless jobless carless etc.

No, that's not how it works. We have a progressive tax system, where the more income the higher the rate.

So, your $100,000 earner pays 28% on his income, while the lower earners pay rates of 10%, 15% or 25%

With this system, the "rich" pay the majority of the taxes, with the top 1% paying 40% of the taxes.

Taxes and Income - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119786208643933077.html)

[MaD ViLLaiN]

How many of you make $2000 per month or less? the republican party don’t believe you should receive any relief from the recession they have created. You aren’t valuable to the economy because you didn’t owe enough in taxes. Giving you money will not boost the economy at all.
and families with incomes below $40,000 would at most receive partial rebates.
How many of you make $3333 per month or less? The Bush boys think you are worth giving some money to, but certainly not the full tax break.
But a household with an income of $100,000 or more could get back $1,600
How many of you make $8333 or more per month? You get to add a little more money into your savings account because you likely have one already. You do not need to spend that money right away. That does not boost the economy.
If you are in this category, you likely agree with Bush on this because you want a tax break. However, it’s the economy that needs the boost. What is good for you is not necessarily what is good for the country during a recession.
For the purpose of jump-starting the economy, economists want people to spend extra money as quickly as possible.
By putting that money into the hands of workers who need it, you give them money that will be spent right away and the recession will go away. You will benefit a lot more with the economy doing better than you will with a one-time payment of $1600.
“The president again is focused on broad-based tax relief for those who are paying taxes,” said Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. when asked at a news conference on Friday whether “everybody” would get a tax break. “This is something that has worked well before, has worked in 2001, worked in 2003.”
Administration officials and Republican lawmakers say it only makes sense to give tax rebates to people who actually paid taxes.
“You have to be a taxpayer in order to get a tax rebate,” said Representative Paul D. Ryan, Republican of Wisconsin and a member of the House Ways and Means Committee. “The White House is very clear that this is for people who pay taxes.”
POOR PEOPLE PAY TAXES TOO! The federal income tax is not the only way we are taxed in this country. Poor people and most middle class people also spend almost if not all of their paycheck every single week.
By percentage and by total amount, poor people and the middle class, (the real middle class that makes less than $100,000 per year, not the bush definition of the middle class that makes $200,000+ per year) put more money into the economy than those that make much more money.
Those that make $100,000 per year or more stimulate the stock market, which according to them and the bush administration will eventually boost the economy. Trickle down economics means give a lot of money to rich people and corporations and some of it will eventually trickle down to the middle class and poor of this country, but it should always go to the rich first so they can decide how much of it to give the rest of us.
Robert Greenstein, director of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a research group in Washington, estimated that under the Republican plan, as many as 65 million Americans with low or modest incomes would miss out on part or all of the payments.
“This approach fails on two counts,” Mr. Greenstein said. “It omits or partly omits those who need the help. And it omits the tens of millions of people who are living paycheck to paycheck and who would be most likely to quickly spend every dollar they can get.”

[Matej]

4. Election Reform.....another fine example considering ACORN (who Obama paid $800,000) and their voter registration is the biggest fraud ever
That happened locally. After further investigation it was found out that supposedly republicans were behind it. They knew such an obvious scam would get caught, it was done to make the democrats look bad.

[MaD ViLLaiN]

No, that's not how it works. We have a progressive tax system, where the more income the higher the rate.

So, your $100,000 earner pays 28% on his income, while the lower earners pay rates of 10%, 15% or 25%

With this system, the "rich" pay the majority of the taxes, with the top 1% paying 40% of the taxes.

Taxes and Income - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119786208643933077.html)

well you cant tax the lower income family any more than that cuz they aint got it in the first place! hehe like i said i dont think the system the way it is works well to the benefit of all americans.

We need to rebuild this system, we need to ensure american families arent struggling the way millions of them are! this is america! and sooooo many families are living like they were in 3rd world countries! our government will easily and happily with out a moments hesitation donate money to other countries to aide them in healthcare homes education etc. to look like heroes to some.

While right here on our own soil we dont have such willing aide! education costs an arm and a leg and a left nut! so unless your already wealthy or a whizz kid and get a full ride scholarship its really hard to get that education needed to make a good living. go to community college and work from there yeah, but out of the many that try that how many get buried in debt and fail to finish and follow through and finish school cuz its overwhelming and they need to drop out and get fulltime jobs to survive and pay theyre rediculose student loans!

i feel health care should be a right to american citizens! and why shouldnt it. and anyone that disagrees probably lives in a family that are better off or at least well off enough where theyre family works ok jobs and can afford healthcare. While there is way too many families that dont have this ability alot of low income families work jobs were health care isnt offered as a benefit.

the big picture here is this government and the way its ran needs to be restructured to strengthen not just the economy or its policies but the people in it from the rich to the poor! its clear the people are angry and feeling left out, im not saying turn america into a charity case and hand out awesome lives with fat checks, i think only the hard working and driven should earn such things in life. but make it realisticaly attainable.

[ALTRNTV]

http://i33.tinypic.com/2ahurrr.jpg

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f123/crosswalkernie/lol.gif

I'd hit it.

[MaD ViLLaiN]

^^ahhahahahahaha^^ funny!

[ALTRNTV]

Pinoy reppin'. ;)

[luckvx]

i agree with esmorz, but fuck mccain still voting for obama i mean shit republicans ran this country for 8 years nothing good came, we do need a change some democrats to run the show again,

and if mccain wins and dies, we will have a dumbass to run the country palin bitch stupid, she went to school for communications thats why she so great at speaches, anybody can bullshit

[Antihero983]

ok so a contributor to obama was a felon....so what?

how does that make it right or wrong?

I'm sure there are some mccain contributors who have some very fucked up skeletons in their closet, but got away cause theyre uber rich.

[Phlip]

ok so a contributor to obama was a felon....so what?

how does that make it right or wrong?

I'm sure there are some mccain contributors who have some very fucked up skeletons in their closet, but got away cause theyre uber rich.
Hell, there is one in McCaint's BED with him with some skeletons in her closet, how come no one is talking about that?
Let us not forget William Timmons (http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/102975/exposed%3A_mccain%27s_presidential_transition_chie f_aided_saddam_hussein/) (yes, that is a link, click it), if we're gonna discuss "palling around with terrorists" and such, since people you know and their pasts are apparently things that you're now culpable for and all.

[KA24DESOneThree]

There is no right to health care. Have you checked the Constitution, its amendments, the Declaration of Independence, or the Articles of Confederation? The right DOES NOT EXIST. We must fight to make enough money, to get an education, to get the skills required to get a job that pays well enough to live the American dream.

Taxing people more because they have more money is just about the most backwards idea in history. We do not reward success, we punish it. Make money on your investments? You must pay. Win a state-run game of chance? You must pay.

There have always been those who struggle to survive in the United States. There always will be. I understand that it's hard to bear and that you feel like it should not be happening here, but please also understand that destroying the ideals that the country was founded on will not make the problem better.

[sillyvia13]

There is no right to health care. Have you checked the Constitution, its amendments, the Declaration of Independence, or the Articles of Confederation? The right DOES NOT EXIST. We must fight to make enough money, to get an education, to get the skills required to get a job that pays well enough to live the American dream.

Taxing people more because they have more money is just about the most backwards idea in history. We do not reward success, we punish it. Make money on your investments? You must pay. Win a state-run game of chance? You must pay.

There have always been those who struggle to survive in the United States. There always will be. I understand that it's hard to bear and that you feel like it should not be happening here, but please also understand that destroying the ideals that the country was founded on will not make the problem better.

well if we lived by them once again and not by made up "rules" to better certain people we'd be goood!

[RJF]

That happened locally. After further investigation it was found out that supposedly republicans were behind it. They knew such an obvious scam would get caught, it was done to make the democrats look bad.

Proof?

And it wasn't local. There are investigations happening in 13 states.

Hell, there is one in McCaint's BED with him with some skeletons in her closet, how come no one is talking about that?
Let us not forget William Timmons (http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/102975/exposed%3A_mccain%27s_presidential_transition_chie f_aided_saddam_hussein/) (yes, that is a link, click it), if we're gonna discuss "palling around with terrorists" and such, since people you know and their pasts are apparently things that you're now culpable for and all.

Did McCain meet Saddam?

Obama "personally" worked with Ayers. And Obama's political career was launched in Ayer's living room.

[RJF]

There is no right to health care. Have you checked the Constitution, its amendments, the Declaration of Independence, or the Articles of Confederation? The right DOES NOT EXIST. We must fight to make enough money, to get an education, to get the skills required to get a job that pays well enough to live the American dream.

Taxing people more because they have more money is just about the most backwards idea in history. We do not reward success, we punish it. Make money on your investments? You must pay. Win a state-run game of chance? You must pay.

There have always been those who struggle to survive in the United States. There always will be. I understand that it's hard to bear and that you feel like it should not be happening here, but please also understand that destroying the ideals that the country was founded on will not make the problem better.

+imaginary rep :bigok:

You nailed it.

Like you said, according to Obama, healthcare is a right. That sounds like socialism.

I don't see that in the Constitution. The Constitution states:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

"Promote the general Welfare" means not impede, in other words stay out of the people's way.

More socialist rhetoric:

Barack Obama was confronted by a plumber in Ohio this past weekend who was concerned about Obama's proposed tax increases. The plumber asked Obama, "Why do want to raise my taxes?" Obama told the man, "I think when you spread the wealth around it's good for everybody."

0X0iBH7EEMs

Spread the wealth? In other words take what I have earned and give it to those that haven't earned it.


Regarding taxes, we see that here running Zilvia. Both Mark and I have full-time jobs and run Zilvia in our "spare" time. If we happen to make alittle extra money beyond our expenses and show a small profit, we get nailed with extra taxes, including self-employment taxes (plus potential penalties for not withholding during the year).

Investments are another story. If you have any savings or investments you in fact are being double-taxed. The first time when you made the money (payroll) and the second time when you get a dividend or interest. Is that fair?

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

+imaginary rep :bigok:

You nailed it.

Like you said, according to Obama, healthcare is a right. That sounds like socialism.

I don't see that in the Constitution. The Constitution states:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

"Promote the general Welfare" means promote not impede, in other words stay out of the people's way.

More socialist rhetoric:

Barack Obama was confronted by a plumber in Ohio this past weekend who was concerned about Obama's proposed tax increases. The plumber asked Obama, "Why do want to raise my taxes?" Obama told the man, "I think when you spread the wealth around it's good for everybody."

Spread the wealth? In other words take what I have earned and give it to those that haven't earned it.


Regarding taxes, we see that here running Zilvia. Both Mark and I have full-time jobs and run Zilvia in our "spare" time. If we happen to make alittle extra money beyond our expenses and show a small profit, we get nailed with extra taxes, including self-employment taxes (plus potential penalties for not withholding during the year).

Investments are another story. If you have any savings or investments you in fact are being double-taxed. The first time when you made the money (payroll) and the second time when you get a dividend or interest. Is that fair?
I think we agree on this one. Although, you have to understand that since 9/11 our Constitutional rights have been removed by this administration. Ben Franklin said it best ""people willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." the Bush administration has led a fear campaign and it frightened enough people to willingly give up those rights. I understand that Obama might not be the BEST candidate, which is why I'm not voting for him, but I also understand that we MUST NOT stay the course.
Also.........FUCK TAXES. The only thing about taxes though is that they will be needed to get out of our financial hole. But all the extra taxes, including the bailout, is nonscence to me! Number one rule of saving is to stop spending money and money will pile up.

[RJF]

What Constitutional rights have been removed?

[WanganRunner]

He is the exact same as any other candidate in the past 100 years. Screened and ok'd by the people who really run the show. Nothing drastic will happen because of him. He is nothing but someone ready to be a nice show figure with the powers that be hand up his ass.



This is conspiracy theory bullshit.

No one is "running the show". This is not Metal Gear Solid.



The inclination to somehow attribute the complexities of systems one doesn't understand (politics, the free markets) to some kind of "shadow figure" is the same inclination that motivated ancient people to invent religion to explain why the sun moved. You're fabricating fallacy to explain what you cannot otherwise comprehend because, for whatever reason, you're uncomfortable with the idea of not comprehending something.



NOTE: I'd like to see the quote from a RELIABLE SOURCE on that plumber conversation from Ohio. I somehow doubt that the plumber is making more than $250,000 per year, and if he isn't, he will get a tax BREAK under Obama's plan (well, under both plans, technically).

I'll take "Tax and Spend" over "Spend and Don't Tax" any day of the week. Using tomorrow's projected surpluses to fund tax cuts today is a huge mistake. Don't spend the money until you have the money.

[RJF]

NOTE: I'd like to see the quote from a RELIABLE SOURCE on that plumber conversation from Ohio. I somehow doubt that the plumber is making more than $250,000 per year, and if he isn't, he will get a tax BREAK under Obama's plan (well, under both plans, technically).


You can hear the quote straight from Obama in the video clip posted above.

What the scary part of that $250,000 number is that it has not been defined. What does it consist of? Gross receipts? Profits? He won't say and that makes the potential very scary.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

What Constitutional rights have been removed?
one word, the USA Patriot Act. You know, but I'll refresh everyone else. The Patriot act pretty much allows authorities to do whatever the fuck they want, including break into your home, bug your phone, search through email, medical records, financial records, and other records without permission or warrents to "fight terra". If you don't think that this is breaking any constitutional rights then examine the Natural Rights portion in the Constitution. The Natural Rights point out the "life, liberty and property" part of the Constitution. The simple FEAR of terrorism removed every aspect of the Natural Rights by imposing the Patriot Act.
thus "people willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."

[WanganRunner]

You can hear the quote straight from Obama in the video clip posted above.

What the scary part of that $250,000 number is that it has not been defined. What does it consist of? Gross receipts? Profits? He won't say and that makes the potential very scary.


Hm, I'll be damned. I can understand that he'd say that in regards to someone making over the $250k threshold, maybe that's what he was assuming, dunno. Stupid-ass thing to say, response should have been "if you make less than $250k AGI I won't raise them at all".

Anyway, on the $250,000 subject, with individuals that would plainly be whatever your adjusted gross income is.

In regards to small businesses, which is what McCain seems to be hammering on, it HAS TO BE bottom line, so net income. You cannot levy a business tax on gross revenues as all business types have wildly different expense structures. How are you going to tax a manufacturing company with a 4% industry-average gross margin the same on the top line as you would a service company with a 50% gross margin industry average?

It's "profits", i.e. net income, after you pay all expenses, all employees, and likely yourself (most owners take a salary and then also distributions from "profits").

I utterly positively absolutely fucking assure you and everyone that he isn't talking about gross revenues. It's just not possible or sensical.


As for the quote, not sure what to say there, he definitely fucked up. I think that's his honest answer for someone who's legitimately making a lot of money, and it IS admittedly a populist nearly-socialist message, but I don't read into that response that he plans a tax increase for people making less than his stated $250k.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

You can hear the quote straight from Obama in the video clip posted above.

What the scary part of that $250,000 number is that it has not been defined. What does it consist of? Gross receipts? Profits? He won't say and that makes the potential very scary.
but you act like that's going to matter. The fact is that 94 of the 95% of the people don't get anywhere NEAR $250k a year. So gross and Profits make no difference. The 1% that is near that number should talk about it with their tax men and see if they could work something out.

[RJF]

but you act like that's going to matter. The fact is that 94 of the 95% of the people don't get anywhere NEAR $250k a year. So gross and Profits make no difference. The 1% that is near that number should talk about it with their tax men and see if they could work something out.

Yes it does.

At its peak, my consulting company (small business) had gross receipts over that number. I had employees, office rent and other expenses....in the end my salary was under $100K after all those expenses and costs required to operate the business. So, yes Obama's definition of what the $250,000 consists of is very important.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Yes it does.

At its peak, my consulting company (small business) had gross receipts over that number. I had employees, office rent and other expenses....in the end my salary was under $100K after all those expenses and costs required to operate the business. So, yes Obama's definition of what the $250,000 consists of is very important.
I thought Wangan did a nice job at point it out. I agree that it's probably net.

[RJF]

I thought Wangan did a nice job at point it out. I agree that it's probably net.

But it hasn't been said publicly.

[MaD ViLLaiN]

ok maybe im wording this to vaugely, When i say health care should be a right i dont mean like its free for everyone. What i mean is it should be attainable for everyone, there are too many american families too poor to afford healthcare and therefore get turned away from medicines or treatment needed maybe even to save theyre lives. Are we as a society choosing that only the strong and people with enough cash survive is this the american way? if you aint got the money you aint worth a chance at a healthy life. Im not saying make it free but make it attainable make systems where if your living paycheck to paycheck just to barely exist, you will still have attainable healthcare.

maybe for some of you you never had to grow up with barely anything to eat, only the same 3 different pairs of clothes to wear to school each year that were hand me downs in the first place, maybe some of you didnt have to grow up walking miles just to get clean water, maybe some of you didnt have to grow up with out electricity. etc... but the reality here is that there are thousands of american families that live this way. And its not just cuz of health care but its because of a failed system as a whole. Is this how we want america to be?

I personaly dont agree with taxing the rich more than anyone else, i say maybe tax everyone the same, we are to be equal right?! put the taxes towards healthcare for all maybe?! maybe we spend some on being a self sustaining country and not be so hugely dependant on foreign energy. not bailout BS multi million dollar companies that made crap business choices. This country needs a change and i dont care what you label it democratic republican liberal etc. as long as it is a positive change for ALL thats is what we need, cuz the last 8 years has been the worst 8 years this country has ever seen.

We need a government that works for its people, that will do theyre honest best at benifiting all americans, not a government that looks out for just the ones in power and the ones with money. We need a government that wont treat us like were idiots and force us to think that 9/11 was a terrorist only job are very own government allowed this to happen, 9/11 was planed by the US. I know im going in all different directions now, its just bottom line change is a must or so many american families are going to be swept under the rug just lke 9/11 was.

[RJF]

cuz the last 8 years has been the worst 8 years this country has ever seen.


By what measure? The late 70's had higher unemployment, run-away inflation, high interest rates, plus real energy shortages, plus then there was the depression of the 30's where unemployment was 25%.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

By what measure? The late 70's had higher unemployment, run-away inflation, high interest rates, plus real energy shortages, plus then there was the depression of the 30's where unemployment was 25%.
In times like this, remember, there has always been times like this.

[WanganRunner]

But it hasn't been said publicly.


Not to sound condescending, but I think that's just because it's viewed as self-evident.

I cannot think of a single tax that is levied on the top-line, mainly due to the expense structure issue I listed above. It would be a wholesale change in how taxes are calculated and it would be, it appears, literally impossible to execute.


Take, for instance, a small business like a corner electronics store, or anything else that involves resale of goods manufactured elsewhere.

Their revenue numbers will be stratospheric in relation to their profits, as COGS (Cost of Goods Sold) will take out a huge chunk. They probably only make, at best, a 10% margin on sales, so for every $990,000 they sell, they've got $900k in expenses.

Compare this to, for instance, a real estate agent. They maybe have $500k in gross revenues but few expenses other than a license, an office, and the salary of the agent.

How could you levy the same top-line tax on both of these businesses? Now think of the thousands and thousands of different business types out there and it starts to become quite literally impossible to determine "correct" rates, from an administrative standpoint.

This is why we talk about "NIBT", i.e. "Net Income Before Taxes", and "EBITDA", i.e. "Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation and Amortization".

[MaD ViLLaiN]

By what measure? The late 70's had higher unemployment, run-away inflation, high interest rates, plus real energy shortages, plus then there was the depression of the 30's where unemployment was 25%.

well im an 80s kid, i dont follow politics very closely so i dont have set % facts. but i do know is lets say when clinton was president, maybe not the best by far but while in office our nation had a good % of employment, economy was doing ok, and our govenrment didnt destroy buildings in order to start a war, and cover it up, in natural disasters help actualy came, not like what happened in new orleans and that whole deal. now since bush has been in office, we are facing another depression, our rights have been violated wire wiretaps and such (dont remember the specifics off the top of my head but it was in direct result of bushes people) were at war over the wrong reasons and because of a huge lie! were more dependant than ever on foreign energy.

the bush crew are the biggest bunch of thugs and liers! Congress never aproved the war the way most think. They gave bush the ok as long as all peacful attempts were used up first, when bush got this ok he skipped the first part and went straight to the war part. against iraq?!?! i thought bin ladin and afganistan did it? i agree sadam needed to be dealt with but that shoulda been handled the first time over there in desert storm. when the towers went down, and all commercial air traffic was stopped who were the special VIP's bush authorized to fly out to afganistan, several members of bin ladins family. hmmmm, did you know that i think it was maybe 25-30% of american soil is actualy owned by middle east powers?! did you know that the world trade center buildings and wtc7 are the first steel structured buildings in the world to collapse due to fires?! and jet fuel burns hot yes, but still no where near hot enough to melt down steel framed building. look it up, you tube something called thermite! its what demolition crews use to implode buildings they are to get rid of, look at pics of ground zero how comes all the steel pillars left standing are cut at perfect slanted angles?! just like when a building is destroyed by a controled explosion. Look for info on ANY evidence of a plane ever hitting the pentagon, why is the hole only 16 ft in diameter, when a 757 would have made a hole about 30+ feet, a 757 is taller even with the landing gear in than the pentagon yet before the fires burned into it the pentagon roof was still intact? why just mere minutes after the pentagon blew up were survailence tapes from the gas station and the hotel near by were taken by fbi and secret service and then never realeased because they supposedly dont show anything?!?! they both had a clear and direct view of the area hit. and look at pics of the pentagon roof line theres arched cameras about every 10 15 feet, one of which is directly above the hole in the wall. wheres that footage?! how comes in the tape they do show the building explodes outwards?! well look at a video of like a car hiting a house you dont see much of anything flying outwards, everything goes inward.

why if this war is about terrorist and weapons of mass destruction was me and my unit ordered to clear and secure the oil fields and refineries? and still to this very day zero weapons of mass destruction were found! why when at the begining of the war in afganistan did we have been ladin cornered ( and i know this for a fact cuz i heard the damn radio chater, and my younger brother was friggin there!) and we were ordered to stand down, and by doing so allowed him to escape. why are military veterans that were severly injured in war not being taken care of, and instead being left by the wayside!?!?! (not all but alot)

this is only a small amount of the parts of the worst 8 years ive seen since this president took over, and if mcain and palin are a supporter of this type of policy and want to continue on bushes path. well i say fuk that.

it will take a president with a plan to unfuk this country and what bush did to it, and to me by watching these debates it seems like obama is the best choice. mcain does not seem fit and palin is just not ready, and from the looks of it abuses the power she has in alaska by firing a person cuz that peron happend to have a bad break up with her sister i think it was.

so in comparison to the 30's and 70's not the worst, but on the other hand times now a days arent like then we are a world super power so to speak and we have all the means necessary to not be in such a state were in now, we are not like this cuz we dont have the ability to be self sustaining and create systems that help the everyday average american, we are like this now simply cuz we havent had the HONEST leadership needed to keep america they way its supposed to be!

[MaD ViLLaiN]

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b286/stevewade/Performance_Index.jpg

[MaD ViLLaiN]

To avoid having to return to Congress for more debate on Iraq, Bush had pushed for and received authority to launch a war without further advance notice to Congress. Never before had Congress so trusted a president with this authority. But in granting this unprecedented authorization, Congress insisted that certain conditions be established as existing and that the president submit a formal determination, assuring the Congress that, in fact, these conditions were present. Specifically (and here I am summarizing technical wording; the actual language [is in section 3(b) (1) and (2) of PL 107-243]), Congress wanted a formal determination submitted to it either before using force or within forty-eight hours of having done so, stating that the president had found that (1) further diplomatic means alone would not resolve the "continuing threat" (meaning WMD) and (2) the military action was part of the overall response to terrorism, including dealing wtih those involved in "the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001." In short, Congress insisted that there be evidence of two points that were the centerpirce of Bush's argument for the war.
We now know, of course, that there were no nuclear weapons program and no WMDs in Iraq. And that the claimed connections of Saddam to al-Qaeda were bogus, and the notion that Iraq was involved in the 9/11 attacks even more so. And,of course, UN weapons inspections were under way in Iraq in 2003, but they were halted by Bush's decision to go to war anyway.

[ALTRNTV]

Having a debate on who to vote for?

Glassbooth - Quiz to help you choose best 2008 presidential candidate (http://glassbooth.org/)

"Non-profit, non-biased organization with no affiliation toward any political parties. "
Let's you see which candidates you have similarities with, concerning views/beliefs
on the issues.

I got:

Obama 71%
Nader 64%
Barr 63%

[ESmorz]

This is conspiracy theory bullshit.

No one is "running the show". This is not Metal Gear Solid.

Corporations and Lobbyists run this nation.

If you see how much power they have over both parties and the entire legal system, there is no way you can think Obama is some rogue, awesome, changeling candidate. He has been accepted. Just like the rest of them.

He and McCain are two peas in a very fucked up pod we call whats left of our nations Republic.

[RJF]

To avoid having to return to Congress for more debate on Iraq, Bush had pushed for and received authority to launch a war without further advance notice to Congress. Never before had Congress so trusted a president with this authority. But in granting this unprecedented authorization, Congress insisted that certain conditions be established as existing and that the president submit a formal determination, assuring the Congress that, in fact, these conditions were present. Specifically (and here I am summarizing technical wording; the actual language [is in section 3(b) (1) and (2) of PL 107-243]), Congress wanted a formal determination submitted to it either before using force or within forty-eight hours of having done so, stating that the president had found that (1) further diplomatic means alone would not resolve the "continuing threat" (meaning WMD) and (2) the military action was part of the overall response to terrorism, including dealing wtih those involved in "the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001." In short, Congress insisted that there be evidence of two points that were the centerpirce of Bush's argument for the war.
We now know, of course, that there were no nuclear weapons program and no WMDs in Iraq. And that the claimed connections of Saddam to al-Qaeda were bogus, and the notion that Iraq was involved in the 9/11 attacks even more so. And,of course, UN weapons inspections were under way in Iraq in 2003, but they were halted by Bush's decision to go to war anyway.


http://www.flashgiochi.org/materiale-per-forum/immagini-old/img/Not.this.shit.again.jpg

[Matej]

RJF and Hayden Panettiere have convinced me!

Hayden Panettiere PSA: Vote for McCain from Hayden Panettiere (http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/df8d1f5b7d)

[MaD ViLLaiN]

http://www.flashgiochi.org/materiale-per-forum/immagini-old/img/Not.this.shit.again.jpg

is it that your tired of seeing/hearing the truth about the above ^^. or that youve been blissfuly happy ignoring the truth and accept just eating the garabage the bush administration feed you and tells you to believe, just like the rest who support bush and further mcain since he will be more of the same!

he is a president that went to war despite what congress told him, went to war on a assumption and hopeful thinking that theyre were WMDs and that in turn hed turn out to be a big hero but the exact opposit happened! this is not the type of government we want running this coutry!

[ESmorz]

is it that your tired of seeing/hearing the truth about the above ^^. or that youve been blissfuly happy ignoring the truth and accept just eating the garabage the bush administration feed you and tells you to believe, just like the rest who support bush and further mcain since he will be more of the same!

:faint:

:bowrofl:

:w00t:

[MaD ViLLaiN]

Educate yourself on these links... yeah im harping on something old, but its also releveant i think cuz its still for reason not being heard by our government and we are left without answers, there is too much proof and evidence showing 9/11 was planned and our own government had a hand in it. Do we want this kind of leadership to continue, what will be the next cause american lives are sacrificed by the thousands for no good reason?!?!

YouTube - 9/11 CONSPIRACY:WERE THERMITE SHAPE CHARGES USED AT THE WTC? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J8ojEWlkrs)

YouTube - Zero : An Investigation Into 9-11- part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrj22lX8Bdo)

thermite used in 9/11 for controlled demolition ^^

[ESmorz]

Welcome to 2006

[RJF]

i
he is a president that went to war despite what congress told him, went to war on a assumption and hopeful thinking that theyre were WMDs and that in turn hed turn out to be a big hero but the exact opposit happened! this is not the type of government we want running this coutry!

Well, Congress authorized the military action.

Check your facts.

[Matej]

Why was the Sarah Palin thread locked?

What is this, communism?!


Freedom of speech!


1st amendment!


This


is


ZILVIAAAAAAAA!!!!


http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u154/squeakerblanchette/Dinosaur-Palin.jpg
http://zinasaunders.com/pages/illustration/images/Playing-House-Zina-Saunders.jpg

[soldiaboy]

lol at McCain referring to joe the plumber every 5 sec

[murda-c]

I changed my mind, i'm pro prop 8 now.

[Phlip]

I love McCaint's palling around with terrorist G. Gordon Liddy, who was making plans to firebomb a Washington think tank, assassinate a prominent journalist, undertake the Watergate burglary, break into the office of Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist, and kidnap anti-war protesters at the 1972 Republican convention while Bill Ayers was still in whatever group he was in and Obama was 8 years old.
Funny thing, here, is that Liddy RAISED FUNDS for McCaint to run for the senate in 98 and actually had Granddaddy McCaint on his syndicated radio show as recently as last year, where McCain said he was "proud" of Liddy and praised Liddy's "adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great."
Specifically, what McCain said was:
Well, you know, I'm proud of you. I'm proud of your family. I'm proud to know your son, Tom, who's a great and wonderful guy. And it's always a pleasure for me to come on your program, Gordon. And congratulations on your continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great.
"principles and philosophies"?
Word?
Which do we speak of, here?
Advocacy of break-ins?
Firebombings?
Assassinations?
Kidnappings?
Taking target practice with figures nicknamed Bill and Hillary? (let the record show that I actually agree with the "Hillary" one)
While we're on the subject of shitty associations with people who have "palled" around, as in meeting in person, as the rules have been precedented, how about Liddy's instructions to anyone who would listen on how to shoot ATF agents "who want to take your guns," and to "shoot in the head because they have on bulletproof vests."
Not to say that Liddy is any less of a "terrorist" than Bill Ayers is, but Bill Ayers has not been parading his terrorism about over the last 3 elections as standard republicanism, and is not a sponsor.

[Matej]

Has anyone else noticed how much McCain blinks?

He keeps blinking, constantly.

Weirdo.

[YoungGun]

Nailin' Palin, coming soon.

This really doesn't contribute to the thread, but look it up seriously.

[cuddlesthesheep]

haha i was laughin my ass off at the blinking. I actually counted how many times in one minute and the minute i chose was perfect, he went off on blinking. I counted 113.

[KA24DESOneThree]

I love McCaint's palling around with terrorist G. Gordon Liddy, who was making plans to firebomb a Washington think tank, assassinate a prominent journalist, undertake the Watergate burglary, break into the office of Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist, and kidnap anti-war protesters at the 1972 Republican convention while Bill Ayers was still in whatever group he was in and Obama was 8 years old.
Funny thing, here, is that Liddy RAISED FUNDS for McCaint to run for the senate in 98 and actually had Granddaddy McCaint on his syndicated radio show as recently as last year, where McCain said he was "proud" of Liddy and praised Liddy's "adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great."
Specifically, what McCain said was:

"principles and philosophies"?
Word?
Which do we speak of, here?
Advocacy of break-ins?
Firebombings?
Assassinations?
Kidnappings?
Taking target practice with figures nicknamed Bill and Hillary? (let the record show that I actually agree with the "Hillary" one)
While we're on the subject of shitty associations with people who have "palled" around, as in meeting in person, as the rules have been precedented, how about Liddy's instructions to anyone who would listen on how to shoot ATF agents "who want to take your guns," and to "shoot in the head because they have on bulletproof vests."
Not to say that Liddy is any less of a "terrorist" than Bill Ayers is, but Bill Ayers has not been parading his terrorism about over the last 3 elections as standard republicanism, and is not a sponsor.

I've advocated assassinations and what the general public would consider to be kidnappings. Castro, Chavez, Khamenei would all be better dead. Bernanke and Paulson should be nabbed by the citizens and thrown in jail or some guy's basement for being traitors to this country.

Telling people how to defend themselves against a corrupt and malevolent government is not a bad thing. Agents of the government willing to forsake their oath and invade private property are open to be shot. Anyone coming to get my guns will get them muzzle first.

Note: This is simply to argue the definition of "terrorist" and not to condone any actions by either Ayers or Libby. The term is bandied about too frequently without regard to its meaning. It is sensationalist and instantly puts those labeled in the "bad guy" category, destroying their reputation and public confidence in them. Some of those labeled "terrorists" by our government are simply freedom fighters who go about their private war in unconventional ways.

[40daws]

In a debate...far, far away, at the Hofstra system. Darth McCain and Jedi Obama meet once again. With the economy still in shambles, this seems to be a fight to the death. With key states in the balance both McCain and Obama scramble to fortify a strong hold for the votes of the people...Behind the scenes, the Empire has come up with a plan to reinvent their Death Star weapon, by turning the Republic into a socialist state. But the Jedi council has met and once again they are trying to keep a new threat from the bounty hunter BoBa Rush from spreading the word on his EIB network, about their secret of stealing the Death Star blueprint...

[MaD ViLLaiN]

Well, Congress authorized the military action.

Check your facts.

They authorized military force yes, ONLY if the president could provide proof that all peaceful attemps at solving the situation have been used up. The president provided no such proof and authorized a war! He authorized a war saying justifying it with Weapons of mass destruction and iraq is harboring terrorist. Well i was there personally there was no WMDS! there were terrorist, no terrorist camps, and when we'd pull id's and pappers on terrorist we'd capture a huge majority of them were from neighbooring countries, they would come from syria to fight us! we are extremely hated by several middle eastern countries. the ones that were natural to iraq were iraqi military doing what there supposed to fight for theyre country and theyre beliefs, they werent terrorists!

So in short there was ZERO justification to be in iraq, there is ZERO justification thousands of troops and my friends are dead. The one and only good thing to come out of it is that sadaam is dead and his regime is out, but that needed to be done years b4 in desert storm!

Mccain stated to obama last night "i am not president bush" blah blah well your exactly like him you support damn near all his policies and look where thats gotten us.

Congress insisted that certain conditions be established as existing and that the president submit a formal determination, assuring the Congress that, in fact, these conditions were present. Specifically (and here I am summarizing technical wording; the actual language [is in section 3(b) (1) and (2) of PL 107-243]), Congress wanted a formal determination submitted to it either before using force or within forty-eight hours of having done so, stating that the president had found that (1) further diplomatic means alone would not resolve the "continuing threat" (meaning WMD) and (2) the military action was part of the overall response to terrorism, including dealing wtih those involved in "the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001."

^^ theres your FACTS!! ^^

the so called proof Bush provided was a fukin LIE just to go to war, and in FACT he provided no less than a statement that there were terrorist and wmds no hard evidence no pictures of wmd/s or nuclear activity. Like i said I was in Iraq TWICE and on both counts found ZERO evidence to justify bush's war. The same war Mccain supports. My duties there were 1st to secure several oil fields/refineries. 2nd to drive all over iraq and CATALOG any and all weapons and military equipment. There were lots of small munitions, mass piles of 500 pound bombs (which is perfectly fine for him to have) although he lacked the equipment needed to use most of the bombs he had stockpiled.

back to the point tho If you want more of the same vote Mcain, if you want change vote obama. Obama may be lacking in experience but its obvious he has a plan that even in is short time in politics compared to mcain obama shows great leadership and the kind we will need to lead our country back onto the right track. thats just my 2 cents.

[RJF]

I love McCaint's palling around with terrorist G. Gordon Liddy, who was making plans to firebomb a Washington think tank, assassinate a prominent journalist, undertake the Watergate burglary, break into the office of Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist, and kidnap anti-war protesters at the 1972 Republican convention while Bill Ayers was still in whatever group he was in and Obama was 8 years old.
Funny thing, here, is that Liddy RAISED FUNDS for McCaint to run for the senate in 98 and actually had Granddaddy McCaint on his syndicated radio show as recently as last year, where McCain said he was "proud" of Liddy and praised Liddy's "adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great."
Specifically, what McCain said was:

"principles and philosophies"?
Word?
Which do we speak of, here?
Advocacy of break-ins?
Firebombings?
Assassinations?
Kidnappings?
Taking target practice with figures nicknamed Bill and Hillary? (let the record show that I actually agree with the "Hillary" one)
While we're on the subject of shitty associations with people who have "palled" around, as in meeting in person, as the rules have been precedented, how about Liddy's instructions to anyone who would listen on how to shoot ATF agents "who want to take your guns," and to "shoot in the head because they have on bulletproof vests."
Not to say that Liddy is any less of a "terrorist" than Bill Ayers is, but Bill Ayers has not been parading his terrorism about over the last 3 elections as standard republicanism, and is not a sponsor.

Did Liddy bomb Government buildings and kill people? No

Plus he actually served prison time for his Watergate involvement. Ayers got off on a technicality.

When you have information on McCain having lunch with Timothy McVeigh (also bombed Government buildings and killed people) then you can make the terrorist comparisons.

[RJF]

They authorized military force yes, ONLY if the president could provide proof that all peaceful attemps at solving the situation have been used up. The president provided no such proof and authorized a war! He authorized a war saying justifying it with Weapons of mass destruction and iraq is harboring terrorist. Well i was there personally there was no WMDS! there were terrorist, no terrorist camps, and when we'd pull id's and pappers on terrorist we'd capture a huge majority of them were from neighbooring countries, they would come from syria to fight us! we are extremely hated by several middle eastern countries. the ones that were natural to iraq were iraqi military doing what there supposed to fight for theyre country and theyre beliefs, they werent terrorists!

So in short there was ZERO justification to be in iraq, there is ZERO justification thousands of troops and my friends are dead. The one and only good thing to come out of it is that sadaam is dead and his regime is out, but that needed to be done years b4 in desert storm!

Mccain stated to obama last night "i am not president bush" blah blah well your exactly like him you support damn near all his policies and look where thats gotten us.

Congress insisted that certain conditions be established as existing and that the president submit a formal determination, assuring the Congress that, in fact, these conditions were present. Specifically (and here I am summarizing technical wording; the actual language [is in section 3(b) (1) and (2) of PL 107-243]), Congress wanted a formal determination submitted to it either before using force or within forty-eight hours of having done so, stating that the president had found that (1) further diplomatic means alone would not resolve the "continuing threat" (meaning WMD) and (2) the military action was part of the overall response to terrorism, including dealing wtih those involved in "the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001."

^^ theres your FACTS!! ^^

the so called proof Bush provided was a fukin LIE just to go to war, and in FACT he provided no less than a statement that there were terrorist and wmds no hard evidence no pictures of wmd/s or nuclear activity. Like i said I was in Iraq TWICE and on both counts found ZERO evidence to justify bush's war. The same war Mccain supports. My duties there were 1st to secure several oil fields/refineries. 2nd to drive all over iraq and CATALOG any and all weapons and military equipment. There were lots of small munitions, mass piles of 500 pound bombs (which is perfectly fine for him to have) although he lacked the equipment needed to use most of the bombs he had stockpiled.

back to the point tho If you want more of the same vote Mcain, if you want change vote obama. Obama may be lacking in experience but its obvious he has a plan that even in is short time in politics compared to mcain obama shows great leadership and the kind we will need to lead our country back onto the right track. thats just my 2 cents.

I suggest you find better, less biased sources of information.

Read the Law that was passed. There were no preconditions. Plus Iraq had chemical weapons. Saddam used them on his own people.

Congressional Resolution attached.

[Antihero983]

^lol like you are in ANY position to talk about finding/reading/using unbiased sources and information.

HAHAHAHAHA

[WanganRunner]

Corporations and Lobbyists run this nation.

If you see how much power they have over both parties and the entire legal system, there is no way you can think Obama is some rogue, awesome, changeling candidate. He has been accepted. Just like the rest of them.

He and McCain are two peas in a very fucked up pod we call whats left of our nations Republic.


Ok, it's one thing to say that special-interest money has an effect on policy decisions, as that's quite plainly true. Each interest pulls and tugs at their respective targeted politicians vis-a-vis lobbying efforts and campaign donations. Sometimes these efforts pay off with favorable legislation and sometimes they don't.

If you are saying that there is some mass collusion betwixt all these varied and disparate interests that is somehow meeting, coordinating, and running the country, I'm gong to recommend that you get some medication. That is, as I mentioned before, "conspiracy theory bullshit".

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

It honestly doesn't matter what any of us say on here, Obama will be the next president of the US. His lead is just too far for McCain to overcome. I just don't understand why Americans always want to go from one extreme to the other.

[WanganRunner]

It honestly doesn't matter what any of us say on here, Obama will be the next president of the US. His lead is just too far for McCain to overcome. I just don't understand why Americans always want to go from one extreme to the other.

It's political momentum. When the incumbent has made an undeniable fool of themselves, the opposition will benefit by fielding a candidate as opposite as possible to said incumbent.

Thus, the Democrats will actually fair BETTER with a farther-left candidate when Bush is unpopular than they will with a more centrist candidate. We've seen this made manifest in the Democratic primaries, as despite her populist rhetoric, Hillary Clinton is much more centrist than Barack Obama is, and yet he clinched the nomination.

I'm not convinced she'd necessarily be the better President, but her politics more closely represent "the average" than do BO's. He is, however, the more appealing and obvious contrast to Bush 43, and thus he'll probably be sitting at that desk at 1600 Penn Ave come January.


Bush 41 was just "somewhat unpopular", and so the Dems got away with fielding someone who was "somewhat different" (i.e. Big Willie). Bush 43 is profoundly unpopular, and thus this translates into requiring someone who is profoundly different.

I think BO would be a good President. I'm not sure he'll be as good as Bill Clinton was, at least not in the strict policy-wonk sense, but he may end up being a more important President just because of what he represents and what he inspires in people both here and abroad. He also seems to genuinely know his shit, which is commendable, even if his conclusions are sometimes a little left of where I stand.

[RJF]

^lol like you are in ANY position to talk about finding/reading/using unbiased sources and information.

HAHAHAHAHA

OK, so the House Joint Resolution from Congress is biased. My bad.

[MaD ViLLaiN]

Are you serioiuse?!?! I am a ARMY COMBAT VET IVE SEEN SHIT WITH MY OWN 2 EYES! biased info?!?! when kerry was running against him he was saying the same thing!!and kerry was on that same seat in congress telling him to produce proof b4 you go to war! and because obamas friend did some things doesnt make obama a suspect, im not saying its not fishey, but it doesnt mean obama cant run a country, and it definately doesnt mean hes a terrorist or supporter of one! but when thousands of poeple have died and are still dieing and our nation is now ran by fear of terrorist attacks that are funded and aided by our own government thats alot different!

sadaam used chemical weapons on his own people years b4 we came in. And who are we the fukin world police?!? we are not so if that backwords ass country wants to kill it self then let it.because the many years weve been there has changed absolutly nothing and ive seen it with my own eyes. those people are happy sadaam is out and theyve said it every fukin day now go home america you did your job we can take it from here! what are we still looking for WMDs? nope... theres no reason to be there and have more american lives lost.

you wanna talk about being in a bed with a terrorist. who created and funded al queda?!? USA did. we trained them we gave them money and weapons. bin ladin was an allie!

you wanna talk corruption how did bush get elected when gore clearly won the vote, hmm they demanded a recount in florida i think twice even, hmmm whos governer of florida Bushs brother, wow a bit of a coincidence there. not to mention all the vans full of lost ballets. not to mention the overseas military votes that werent ever counted on his 1st and 2nd election.

these are not biased facts. but only true facts. if you do not see it then you must be blind or completely brainwashed by bush and think that in the last 8 years we as a country have continued on a path to greatness and that bush and his crew have been a sucess. that we have moved forward and not light years backwards! that while bush was in office some of our rights were not violeted with wiretaps and etc... that our economy is not failing big time, that the war was not about oil. that 9/11 and the thousands that died and are still dieing as a result of it was not organized by our government and bush and his people let it happen!

What more evidence would you need to see that to elect mcain and continue down this same self destructive path that bush has us on, is the absolutly wrong thing to do??!!

[Antihero983]

OK, so the House Joint Resolution from Congress is biased. My bad.

It can be and you know it.

99% of shit you post is anti obama, and you act like McCain has done NOTHING WRONG ever in his political career.

im not saying obama hasnt made mistakes, trust me.

but I would love for you to post something that isnt so fucking one sided for once.

[MaD ViLLaiN]

It can be and you know it.

99% of shit you post is anti obama, and you act like McCain has done NOTHING WRONG ever in his political career.

im not saying obama hasnt made mistakes, trust me.

but I would love for you to post something that isnt so fucking one sided for once.

exactly!! ^^

and if the governement can cover up something like 9/11 well shit why would parts of congress not do so as well if theyre on the payroll?! not to mention i think not sure but more than half of congress are republican bush supporters anyhow! not to mention i dont think the spinless group of congress we have at the moment would stand up and do whats right now, cuz that would be admitting they fuked up and that therefore our system is fuked up and investigations and the whole 9 yards would follow, so they stay the course that theyre on, unfortunately...

nowa days its hard to believe any official document that comes from the government while bush is still in office because there integrity is so hugely tarnished! cuz like i stated b4 the 9/11 official pentagon report omitted and changed so many of the eye witnesses reports. why would your provided document not be touched by the same dirty hands.

[Phlip]

It can be and you know it.

99% of shit you post is anti obama, and you act like McCain has done NOTHING WRONG ever in his political career.

im not saying obama hasnt made mistakes, trust me.

but I would love for you to post something that isnt so fucking one sided for once.
*cough*
Keating 5
*cough*
goddamn, it's dusty in here... I think I will walk around the corner and vote early while this clears.
I expect that someone will have responded to say that John McCain was an angel in that as well.

[RJF]

*cough*
Keating 5
*cough*
goddamn, it's dusty in here... I think I will walk around the corner and vote early while this clears.
I expect that someone will have responded to say that John McCain was an angel in that as well.

*cough*
Exhonorated
*cough*

The Senate Ethics Committee's investigation began on November 17, 1989. It focused on all five senators and lasted 22 months, with 9 months of active investigation and 7 weeks of hearings. The committee was composed of three Democratic senators, Howell Heflin (chair), David Pryor, and Terry Sanford, and three Republican senators, Warren Rudman (vice chair), Trent Lott, and Jesse Helms. Washington attorney Robert S. Bennett was appointed as special outside counsel to the committee, tasked with conducting the investigation.

Initially the committee investigated in private. On September 10, 1990, Bennett submitted a confidential report, which soon leaked, that recommended that the committee continue its investigation of Cranston, DeConcini, and Riegle, but take no action against Glenn and McCain, as there was insufficient evidence to pursue the latter two

[aziankingz]

i vote for joe the pumbler or was it joe diploma? that shit was funny.. rambling on about this joe..

[Matej]

Plus Iraq had chemical weapons. Saddam used them on his own people.
How did that affect me?

[Antihero983]

*cough*
Exhonorated
*cough*

The Senate Ethics Committee's investigation began on November 17, 1989. It focused on all five senators and lasted 22 months, with 9 months of active investigation and 7 weeks of hearings. The committee was composed of three Democratic senators, Howell Heflin (chair), David Pryor, and Terry Sanford, and three Republican senators, Warren Rudman (vice chair), Trent Lott, and Jesse Helms. Washington attorney Robert S. Bennett was appointed as special outside counsel to the committee, tasked with conducting the investigation.

Initially the committee investigated in private. On September 10, 1990, Bennett submitted a confidential report, which soon leaked, that recommended that the committee continue its investigation of Cranston, DeConcini, and Riegle, but take no action against Glenn and McCain, as there was insufficient evidence to pursue the latter two

and?

It still happened and that's the point. fuck even OJ was found innocent, it doesnt mean that it didnt happen.

and again I find it a hypcritical that you piss and moan about people posting biased info from biased sources, but yet that's all you do.....

[Phlip]

Did anyone notice last night that McCaint is southpaw too?

We are totally and absolutely irretrievably fucked on this one, no matter who wins, we get a lefty president...

... again...
Take note:

Gerald Ford - C'mon, Gerald, how the FUCK could you pardon Nixon?!!?
Ronald Reagan - "Reaganomics," anyone? "The war on drugs," anyone else (which was more a war on class)? nothing has gotten any better to this day... Rot in pieces, fucker.
George H.W. Bush - Apparently not good enough a man to be re elected, not to mention his failure in the handling of Saddam 12 years short of his boy's completely fucking the whole country in pursuit of finishing the job.
Bill Clinton - [apply GOP fans' hate here]

That has been 4 of the last 5 presidents that were left handed, and each has left their indelibly shitty mark on the country...

-ALTHOUGH-

None left a mark as shitty as the past 8 years with the current right hander, which has perfectly paved the way for the failure of WHOMEVER wins this time. Nothing is saving us from this quagmire.
Me, I am seeing a girl who is fluent in Spanish now, I will look into moving to Europe, nice knowing you all, see you on the other side!

[RJF]

and again I find it a hypcritical that you piss and moan about people posting biased info from biased sources, but yet that's all you do.....

What's biased about that? Those are the facts from the Senate Ethics Committee or I guess three Democrats and three Republicans are biased.

i vote for joe the pumbler or was it joe diploma? that shit was funny.. rambling on about this joe..

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/SPc7nO9EZWI/AAAAAAAAWbw/lgOBrhXTR0U/s400/joe5.JPG

BdLPWfTczM4

Liberal media stricks again:

SCRANTON – The agent in charge of the Secret Service field office in Scranton said allegations that someone yelled “kill him” when presidential hopeful Barack Obama’s name was mentioned during Tuesday’s Sarah Palin rally are unfounded.

The Scranton Times-Tribune first reported the alleged incident on its Web site Tuesday and then again in its print edition Wednesday. The first story, written by reporter David Singleton, appeared with allegations that while congressional candidate Chris Hackett was addressing the crowd and mentioned Oabama’s name a man in the audience shouted “kill him."

News organizations including ABC, The Associated Press, The Washington Monthly and MSNBC’s Countdown with Keith Olbermann reported the claim, with most attributing the allegations to the Times-Tribune story.

Agent Bill Slavoski said he was in the audience, along with an undisclosed number of additional secret service agents and other law enforcement officers and not one heard the comment.

“I was baffled,” he said after reading the report in Wednesday’s Times-Tribune.

He said the agency conducted an investigation Wednesday, after seeing the story, and could not find one person to corroborate the allegation other than Singleton.

Slavoski said more than 20 non-security agents were interviewed Wednesday, from news media to ordinary citizens in attendance at the rally for the Republican vice presidential candidate held at the Riverfront Sports Complex. He said Singleton was the only one to say he heard someone yell “kill him.”

http://www.timesleader.com/news/breakingnews/Secret_Service_says_Kill_him_allegation_unfounded_ .html


.

[Antihero983]

^liberal media? thats not one sided posting at allllllllllllllll

i'm saying ALL of your fucking posts are one sided RJF.

[RJF]

I'm just stating facts.

Zogby Poll: Voters Believe Media Bias is Very Real
Zogby International (http://www.zogby.com/News/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1262)

[WanganRunner]

That has been 4 of the last 5 presidents that were left handed, and each has left their indelibly shitty mark on the country...

I'd love to hear your breakdown of Presidents in regards to who was left or right handed and who left a shitty mark versus a good one.

Ronald Reagan buried this country financially. He was great in our standoff with the Soviets, but he was a subpar President in most other respects. He had great "perception factor", but that doesn't get shit done.

Bush 41 was the most brilliant foreign policy mind in the White House since the latter Roosevelt, but his forced marriage to the supply-side "voodoo economics" that he so personally detested ultimately doomed him. Great man though, I admire him a great deal.

Bill Clinton was the most fiscally conservative President in the postwar period and possibly in the entire 20th century. He cut real spending, drastically slashed accumulation of debt, and pumped up the dollar. No Republican President in the postwar period has ever seriously endeavored to cut real deficit spending, only Bill did.

I won't start on GWB. His philosophical issues mirror those of Reagan, but his inability to execute anything competently place him in another class altogether.


Don't get me wrong, despite my Obama endorsement this go-round I'm still essentially a fiscal conservative. I just can't stand the modern GOP idea that you can spend money and not tax. "Trickle Down" doesn't work anymore, it still trickles, but it trickles to Bangladesh and China, not to Americans. Supply-Side economics is dead (if it was ever alive), time for us to actually go back to waiting to spend money until we've got it.

It's just that, since the Reagan Revolution, the GOP has been horribly off-track in economic terms.

Show me a GOP President who advocates cutting spending FIRST and then maybe cutting taxes (or better yet, paying down the deficit) and I'll show you my vote.



EDIT: All this nonsense about Ayers, Lewis, Wright, and for that matter the Keating Five or Cindy's pill-popping is fucking irrelevant. Americans don't care to hear about it anymore and whichever campaign is forced to focus on this drivel for lack of better material is in bad shape indeed. McCain KNOWS people don't want to hear about this shit (outside of his oft-obnoxious base), but he has to go with it for lack of having anything better to present. He's better than this. I mean, I still hope he loses, but it'd be nice to see him treat himself and his own legacy a little better than this. Negativity is one thing, it happens in campaigns, but he's just demonstrating poorly conceived politics.

[RJF]

Show me a GOP President who advocates cutting spending FIRST and then maybe cutting taxes (or better yet, paying down the deficit) and I'll show you my vote.

That would be John McCain.

[WanganRunner]

That would be John McCain.

I'm not sure how you can say that.

We're presently running a deficit in the budget, thus it is irresponsible to be proposing ANY tax cuts at all. If anything, we quite obviously need higher taxes unless we can demonstrate seriously lower spending.


I said cut spending BEFORE cutting taxes, but that's not what McCain is proposing at all. He is proposing a $300 billion tax cut to corporations and wealthy individuals.

The point is that tax cuts are immediate but spending cut promises are just that, promises. He needs to DELIVER on the spending cuts BEFORE even promising any tax relief, otherwise he's just another deficit spender.

Obama is a spender too, but at least he's willing to raise tax revenues in some hope of making the whole thing balance. He's not just spending borrowed money like the GOP does.

[MaD ViLLaiN]

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b286/stevewade/2.gif

[Antihero983]

I'm just stating facts.

Zogby Poll: Voters Believe Media Bias is Very Real
Zogby International (http://www.zogby.com/News/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1262)

YOU aren't stating shit.

you are doing nothing more than copying and pasting shit that favors your opinion.

[ESmorz]

Ok, it's one thing to say that special-interest money has an effect on policy decisions, as that's quite plainly true. Each interest pulls and tugs at their respective targeted politicians vis-a-vis lobbying efforts and campaign donations. Sometimes these efforts pay off with favorable legislation and sometimes they don't.

If you are saying that there is some mass collusion betwixt all these varied and disparate interests that is somehow meeting, coordinating, and running the country, I'm gong to recommend that you get some medication. That is, as I mentioned before, "conspiracy theory bullshit".

I am merely saying that with as much political pull as special interest groups and corporations have in this country. It would be virtually impossible for some "radical" to get into office. They will do anything to protect themselves and their money.

Not some conspiracy, not some secret meetings with Lee Raymond and a bunch of other CEO's in a torch lit cave wearing cloaks and making all the worlds decisions.

It's just common sense that they are the major barrier between you and the White House. Don't agree with them... well fuck you buddy. Have fun on the PTA.

[RJF]

YOU aren't stating shit.

you are doing nothing more than copying and pasting shit that favors your opinion.

So now Zogby polls are biased? Guess Obama isn't leading then.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Fuck all this horseshit.

Does everyone know that if a third party gets 5% of the popular vote then that party shall receive equal government funding, creating a viable third party for the next election?

‘Bob the Builder’

While Obama and McCain seek to put patches on leaks, Bob Barr hopes to rebuild America



"'Joe the Plumber' doesn't need Senators Barack Obama or John McCain'" says Bob Barr, the Libertarian Party's nominee for president. "He needs 'Bob the Builder.'"
"While Senators Obama and McCain seek only to put government patches on today's problems, 'Joe the Plumber' needs a leader who will rebuild our government into one that serves the interests of the people; not the interests of Washington," says Barr. "Senator McCain wants to make 'Joe the Plumber' responsible for his neighbor's mortgage, and Senator Obama wants to tax 'Joe the Plumber' for being successful. Both Senators Obama and McCain want to spend 'Joe the Plumber's' tax dollars on wasteful projects, such as the $850 billion dollar bailout of Wall Street."
"Senators Obama and McCain are no friend to 'Joe the Plumber,'" says Barr. "But 'Bob the Builder is.' 'Bob the Builder' says that Joe should be able to keep the fruits of his labor, and shouldn't be responsible for the mistakes of other people. 'Bob the Builder' says Joe shouldn't be asked to shoulder Wall Street, and shouldn't have his son sent off to die in a war that should have never been started. 'Bob the Builder' wants to build a government that is limited to its Constitutional authority, spends less of Joe's money and stays out of Joe's life."
"America needs a builder, not a patch-job," says Barr. "Senators Obama and McCain are a part of our problems—they are not the solution. America needs a leader with the vision and the courage to stand up against government, and truly reform it, where it once again begins serving the interest of every Joe and Jane across America. America needs Bob Barr."
Libertarian Party presidential candidate Bob Barr represented the 7th District of Georgia in the U. S. House of Representatives from 1995 to 2003.
The Libertarian Party is America's third largest political party, founded in 1971 as an alternative to the two main political parties. You can find more information on the Libertarian Party by visiting www.LP.org (http://www.lp.org/). The Libertarian Party proudly stands for smaller government, lower taxes and more freedom.


....I'm just saying :D

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

YouTube - 30 Second Television Ad - A New Direction (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA4LJhghi5s&eurl=http://www.lp.org/)

Yes we can

[WERDdabuilder]

did anyone see the political roast for the Al Smith dinner? ah it was great.

i love watching vids of supporters of both parties.

YouTube - The McCain-Palin Mob (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E)
part1
YouTube - Pt. 1 Barack Obama Supporters Unleashed! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv1EKBsPedo)
part2
YouTube - Pt. 2 Barack Obama Supporters Unleashed! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKQz0u4dbB4&feature=related)

:rofl: my fuckin brain hurts from watching this shit.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Obama presidency= Western Europe combined with Eastern Bloc

McCain presidency= Western Europe combined with Eastern Bloc

Barr presidency= Reports of frigid conditions in the land of fire and brimstone

Here's the deal: If you vote for either of the main candidates, you are doing this country a great disfavor.

We need no change from a socialist nor hope from a socialist. We need no vet with a "maverick" tendency to buck the trend and vote against the country.

What we need is a third-party candidate, and that party and its candidates MUST adhere to libertarian principles.

This country was founded using strict guidelines upon which government was formed. Because of people who ran on "hope" and "change," we now have an ailing economy, a war no one wants, rampant rights violations, an activist supreme Court (thanks to Marbury v. Madison), and government intervention and taxation in nearly every aspect of our lives.

This election isn't about the talking points McCain and Obama throw out like free candy to fat children. This election is about getting the country back. Vote for a third party, and encourage everyone you know to do the same. Please, please go to Libertarian Party | Smaller Government | Lower Taxes | More Freedom (http://www.lp.org/) and Libertarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism) and Libertarianism.com (http://www.libertarianism.com/).

Join the cause. Our country is failing and only you can get it back. There are millions of us interested in change, but without you, we're powerless. Vote for Bob Barr or write in Ron Paul in defense of liberty.

How did you feel about the bailout? What did your representatives and senators do? Did they listen to their constituents, Republican or Democrat? No, they ignored you. They ignored you because they can ignore you. They've gotten too big, too powerful. They will win elections without your support because their war chests are bursting at the seams with campaign contributions from "Political Action Committees," the legal way for corporations to give millions to political campaigns.

How can you stand idly by while our current government hands out over a trillion dollars in bailouts while we have an enormous national debt? If the government was using our tax dollars effectively, do you think we'd have that big a debt? Do you really want to hand over your hard-earned dollars to pay into a welfare system that rewards those who don't work?

Be proactive. The government won't change itself. If you're not willing to walk on Washington to demand change, at least demand it at the ballot box.

[Antihero983]

So now Zogby polls are biased? Guess Obama isn't leading then.

god dammit RJF READ MY FUCKING POSTS.

i'm not saying THEY ARE BIASED.

IM SAYING YOU ARE DOING NOTHING MORE THAN COPYING AND PASTING SHIT. NOTHING YOU POSTED IS FROM YOU, ITS FROM "SOURCES".

and stop trying to twist my words. if i wanted to call something biased i would.

YOU are biased. all you do is post shit that is biased towards your opinion.

jesus fuck i need a cold shower now.

[WanganRunner]

For the record, I think that Democrats in "safe" Obama states should vote for Barr.

I don't want to jeopardize Obama's chances at the White House, but if Barr got 5% of the vote he would re-write the American political landscape.

The reason the Libertarian party is run by wackos is because all the "normal" Libertarians know that the party can't field anyone electable, so they stick with the mainstream GOP. If both the GOP and the Libertarians got public funding, then the Libertarians would strip off a great deal of GOP support, all the small-government conservatives and many moderates, and then the GOP would be left with only the religious zealots.

Consequently, it could also force the GOP to change, the GOP would marginalize the religious zealots and once again become the party of small-government conservatives.

Either outcome would be fine, so long as the "Moral Majority" crawls back to the holes from whence they came. They've wielded disproportionate power for far too long.

[Phlip]

I am voting for Samuel L Jackson, of the "Bad Motherfucker" party myself.

*EDIT*
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/McCain_camp_hits_up_Russian_ambassador.html?showal l

[BustedS13]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/10/18/gall.stlouis.cnn.jpg

good turnout for the Obama rally in STL today

[Phlip]

Wow:

The 10 Dirtiest Election Tricks the Republicans Have Tried So Far | Election 2008 | AlterNet (http://www.alternet.org/election08/103670/the_10_dirtiest_election_tricks_the_republicans_ha ve_tried_so_far/?page=entire)

[KA24DESOneThree]

Phlip, please don't increase the partisan bullshit present in this thread. Most of what's in that link you just posted is exactly that: bullshit. If you read that and think it's actual fact, I am so very sorry for you. Alternet.org is so full of neoliberal propaganda that I'd expect it to be written in Cyrrilic.

Both sides have done nothing to help this country during the entire period leading to the election. Neither have said anything of any substance, and they both have skeletons in their closet and in their party. We have to choose between two evils, the lesser of which is horrible for the country.

[ESmorz]

Phlip, please don't increase the partisan bullshit present in this thread. Most of what's in that link you just posted is exactly that: bullshit. If you read that and think it's actual fact, I am so very sorry for you.

Both sides have done nothing to help this country during the entire period leading to the election. Neither have said anything of any substance, and they both have skeletons in their closet and in their party. We have to choose between two evils, the lesser of which is horrible for the country.

Substance doesn't win elections. I would guess waaaay more than half of this country couldn't even tell you who the 7th president was without google, or for that matter what year we invaded Iraq.

Appearances, bravado, and likability win elections. You have to appeal to the stupid. The stupid outnumber the smart, and in turn even the mentally capable fall in line with party tactics. Sad state of affairs.

:rolleyes:

[RJF]

^^ I was about to say the same thing. Everyone of those items has been proved as false.

Regarding the "supposed" shouts against Obama at McCain/Palin rallies, it never happened according to the Secret Service. Plus, why doesn't the media report that Palin's bus was shot at in New Mexico the other day. They found several bullet holes when the bus reached its stop in Colorado.