Electric fan info inside... [Archive] - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

drift_student

01-20-2008, 12:03 AM

I've been doing a bit of research on the electric fans that fit the S13.

The things I am looking into are the CFM, speed control, and AMP draw.

Today I stumbled upon a book from an electric fan company that we have at work (Advance Auto) that tells the approximate CFM and Amp draw of pretty much EVERY car made from 1972-2003. No, I did not find the 350Z/G35...?

Now, the stats of each fan are based on what fan setup this company recommends; which is based on factory specs, so please consider this. The stats may not be 100% accurate, but should give you a good idea about each fan.

Examples:

1998 Nissan Altima:
Dual speed
low: ~1200 cfm, Amp draw ~16.5A
high: ~1500 cfm, Amp draw ~22.5A

1995 Ford Taurus (3.8L)
Dual speed
low: ~2500 cfm, Amp draw ~23.75A
high: ~3800cfm, Amp draw ~46.5A

These are probably reposts, but the point of this thread is that I can find these ratings for people who have found electric fans that fit on our radiators. I'm trying to create new sources of electric fans that people can use.

Let me know if you have found a fan that fits, and want to get the specs on it. I think everyone looking for fans could benefit from this.

g6civcx

01-20-2008, 08:04 AM

Great post!

1995 Ford Taurus (3.8L)
Dual speed
low: ~2500 cfm, Amp draw ~23.75A
high: ~3800cfm, Amp draw ~46.5A

Taurus fan owners beware.

LA_phantom_240

01-20-2008, 12:01 PM

Seriously. Thats more CFM than any of us need, and on top of that, you're drawing more current than the alternator can produce under 3500rpm.

I have a 14" TorqFlo fan from AutoZone Part #733690, and it flows 1300cfm (iirc, possibly 1400) and pulls only 12 amps. I've never had any problems with it.

drift_student

01-20-2008, 12:40 PM

Yeah, we sell fans under the brand called Hayden at Advance. They are actually made by Siemens. I had their 16" fan that supposedly put out 1200cfm. My friend's Altima fans on low felt as if it put out nearly twice as much air. The amp draw was high as well; 19.5A

murda-c

01-20-2008, 01:28 PM

i just took off my clutch fan because i hated the noise...and left only the ac fan there.

temps didn't increase by any significant in 100+ degree weather, but then again i haven't tracked it.

I'll put a good electric fan on it before i track it though.

stinky_180

01-20-2008, 01:39 PM

i use a ford temp v6 electical fan on my car. i dont know the specs but it sure cools the car. also has two fan speeds and is shrouded. slight modification to shroud.

drift_student

01-20-2008, 02:12 PM

i use a ford temp v6 electical fan on my car. i dont know the specs but it sure cools the car. also has two fan speeds and is shrouded. slight modification to shroud.

What year Ford Tempo, and would you mind posting pics of your setup?

Also, how much did it cost?

I'm sure people are sick and tired of going to salvage yards and seeing Altimas and Tauruses with no e-fans and thinking that the only alternative is an expensive aftermarket setup. I'm not saying that people should be cheap with cooling mods, simply because of how vital proper cooling is, but there are tons of cost effective OEM fans from various manufacturers that could possibly work.

stinky_180

01-20-2008, 03:01 PM

What year Ford Tempo, and would you mind posting pics of your setup?

Also, how much did it cost?

I'm sure people are sick and tired of going to salvage yards and seeing Altimas and Tauruses with no e-fans and thinking that the only alternative is an expensive aftermarket setup. I'm not saying that people should be cheap with cooling mods, simply because of how vital proper cooling is, but there are tons of cost effective OEM fans from various manufacturers that could possibly work.

i have no idea what year, i just know it was an older model with a v6 engine. i was at the junk yard and all the 240sx were taken apart so i went ahead and walked the domestic isle. i found the fan and just took it without test fitting it. to my surprise, it covered the entire radiator. it cost 15 bucks at the yard :yum: . pictures can do some more talking:

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff319/stinky180/240sx%20installs/b1e45127.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff319/stinky180/240sx%20installs/890a7d98.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff319/stinky180/240sx%20installs/fc685d7e.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff319/stinky180/240sx%20installs/3eaa0e13.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff319/stinky180/240sx%20installs/8fb268f7.jpg

e-fan switch
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff319/stinky180/240sx%20installs/bdeca2a7.jpg

the switch burnt out on me so i replaced it using a relay and switch. the switch is for the highest setting. the low setting is wired up to the lower radiator hose a/c temp sensor or wahtever. the sensor kicks the fan on at some temp... i think 140? i dont know. but it works fine. i only use the highest setting in traffic.

drift_student

01-20-2008, 04:14 PM

Thanks stinky_180 (http://www.zilvia.net/f/member.php?u=25045), I will try to get the specs on these fans by next week. ( I only work on Saturdays during school. )

Did you have to do many modifications?

djcobra

01-20-2008, 04:58 PM

Keep it simple, clutch fan with fan shroud and a NISMO thermostat does the job! I've never hit over 80-85 degree C with my setup ~320whp SR20DET. As for noise, I thnk the Electric fans make way more noise than a clutch fan. Then again everyone have their own preference.

Steve.

stinky_180

01-20-2008, 05:02 PM

Did you have to do many modifications?

i had to trim a small piece of plastic so it will clear the drainage plug.

MegasquirtCA

01-20-2008, 05:25 PM

Stinky it looks like your fan is the same one from V6 3.8L Taurus.

stinky_180

01-20-2008, 06:51 PM

Stinky it looks like your fan is the same one from V6 3.8L Taurus.

it might be, i has no idea. i just know i took out the fan from a ford tempo v6

importdude

01-20-2008, 06:56 PM

it looks very similar
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/importdude/taurusfans.jpg

Anto

01-20-2008, 07:06 PM

That's the one.

I just picked up two of them at the junkyard for 1/2 off

yee haw

orion::S14

01-20-2008, 07:21 PM

I have a 14" TorqFlo fan from AutoZone Part #733690, and it flows 1300cfm (iirc, possibly 1400) and pulls only 12 amps. I've never had any problems with it.

Most the rating on FLex-a-lite, FAL, Autozone brand, etc...are with NO RESISTANCE. i.e....not mounted on a radiator. You mount them, and the flow rating drops in half when it has to move air through the core.

...so those rating are deceiving.

If it pulls really low amps, it's not moving much air. That's almost a guarantee.

Just an FYI.

the switch burnt out on me so i replaced it using a relay and switch...

Just a note:

DO NOT EVER use just a switch for a hot wire. Anything that draws more than a few amps ABSOLUTELY REQUIRES a relay.

I run 4 relays for my Altima fans - One for each speed (High and Low), so 2 for each fan.

That way, even if one fails...I'll still have one fan at full strength, and one with low speed, at least. Redundancy = reliability.

But I digress.

Running a fan straight off a switch, with no relay = DANGEROUS.

Use a relay, and trigger the relay via a ground with the switch. Just like factory, and pulls no current across the switch.

- Brian

importdude

01-20-2008, 07:22 PM

Most the rating on FLex-a-lite, FAL, Autozone brand, etc...are with NO RESISTANCE. i.e....not mounted on a radiator. You mount them, and the flow rating drops in half when it has to move air through the core.

...so those rating are deceiving.

If it pulls really low amps, it's not moving much air. That's almost a guarantee.

Just an FYI.

Just a note:

DO NOT EVER use just a switch for a hit wire. Anything that draws more than a few amps ABSOLUTELY REQUIRES a relay.

I run 4 relays for my Altima fans - One for each speed (High and Low), for both fans.

That way, even if one fails...I'll still have one fan at full strength, and one with low speed, at least. Redundancy = reliability.

But I digress.

Running a fan straight off a switch, with no relay = DANGEROUS.

Use a relay, and trigger the relay via a ground with the switch. Just like factory, and pulls no current across the switch.

- Brian

can u post ur wiring diagram?
tia would be awesome

orion::S14

01-20-2008, 07:35 PM

Try here:

http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=140628&highlight=altima+fan+wiring

You'll find this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/bdenton180sx/AltimaFanWiringDiagram.jpg

Just do that, but run the output (pin 30) to BOTH postive fan wires...green and blue. Do it for BOTH fans.

Bare minimum, you HAVE to use 2 relays...wired like in that post.

But 4 is better.

...

ANOTHER NOTE: That diagram shows pin 85 off the battery...so the fans will run with the ignition OFF.

If you wire pin 85 to a switched source, off the ignition...the fan will turn off with the key.

- Brian

stinky_180

01-20-2008, 07:59 PM

thanks orion for the wiring diagram. time to buy a relay.

g6civcx

01-20-2008, 08:20 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/bdenton180sx/AltimaFanWiringDiagram.jpg

Several comments:

* you need to switch pins 30 and 87. Source needs to go on 30. Load needs to go on 87. It's fine for now but get in the habit of putting load on 87 because when you have a 5-pin relay with an 87a pin, you won't know how to hook it up correctly

* you need to use #12AWG or larger wire to throughout the entire circuit that carries current from the battery to pin 30, 87 to fan to ground. Pins 85/86 to fuse and ground may use smaller wires since those 2 pins are not pulling much current

drift_student

01-20-2008, 08:50 PM

Yeah, I have the switch in the ground wire on my setup.

drift_student

01-20-2008, 11:15 PM

Most the rating on FLex-a-lite, FAL, Autozone brand, etc...are with NO RESISTANCE. i.e....not mounted on a radiator. You mount them, and the flow rating drops in half when it has to move air through the core.

...so those rating are deceiving.

If it pulls really low amps, it's not moving much air. That's almost a guarantee.

Just an FYI.

The ratings I posted are free-flow ratings. However, the actual amount of cfm while on the radiator depends on the radiator design. I wouldn't say that the flow rating drops in half though. It just depends on your setup. The disclaimer in the book I'm referencing says that the radiator will cause an average decrease of 15-20%.

Another thing to consider is that most companies display the ratings of a fan operating at a consistent 13.5 or more volts, so your fans will not be as effective at idle.

codyace

01-20-2008, 11:28 PM

Take note that the colors on the Later year Altima Fans and A32 Maxima fans are not the traditional early year Altima fan colors.

I have 2 bosch 30 amp relays on my setup, one for high speed on the one fan, and one high on the other. The one high speed is controlled by a Derale Fan controller to come on at a certain temp, and the other is to a switched source. The only time I ever need to switch the 2nd fan on is during track days, or very muggy days with my A/C on. Other than that, just the one on highspeed (with a koyo rad, upper cooling panel, and all lower plastics, JDM S14 OEM bumper and Greddy lip) has kept my car cool with no issue.

LA_phantom_240

01-21-2008, 03:16 AM

In any case, I ran my cheapie autozone fan at idle for over 2 hours in 80 degree 75% humidity weather and had no overheating whatsoever. Traffic jams suck penis.

orion::S14

01-21-2008, 07:33 AM

* you need to switch pins 30 and 87. Source needs to go on 30. Load needs to go on 87. It's fine for now but get in the habit of putting load on 87 because when you have a 5-pin relay with an 87a pin, you won't know how to hook it up correctly...

Agreed, 100%.

Also, here's another diagram, if someone is still unsure about Bosch relay wiring:

http://www.classictruckshop.com/clubs/earlyburbs/projects/bosch/foglite.jpg

(from here: http://www.classictruckshop.com/clubs/earlyburbs/projects/bosch/foglites.htm )

I like that one, EXCEPT...I prefer to put a switch on the ground (pin 86), and just run 85 directly off the fuse box / ignition switched (+) wire.

Just more food for thought...

- Brian

J ROK

01-21-2008, 09:05 AM

I have a Mustang fan, same as the Taurus one above, works great!

Gjohnson7

01-21-2008, 10:46 AM

Examples:

1998 Nissan Altima:
Dual speed
low: ~1200 cfm, Amp draw ~16.5A
high: ~1500 cfm, Amp draw ~22.5A

1995 Ford Taurus (3.8L)
Dual speed
low: ~2500 cfm, Amp draw ~23.75A
high: ~3800cfm, Amp draw ~46.5A

I had heard that the Tarus fans pulled alot of Amps at High speed, so I wired mine up with just the low speed. At low it pulls ~23.75A which is slightly above the Altima's high speed draw of ~22.5A, but moves over ~1000 cfm more. I'm happy with my setup, but will eventually learn how to wire up a relay for extra reliability.

superJoy

01-21-2008, 01:16 PM

Here's my fan set-up, it was pulled from a V6 Ford (either a Taurus or Sable, I don't remember). The shroud on mine seems slightly different than the one posted, hmm...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/decline1/IMG_3434.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/decline1/IMG_3435.jpg

It's pretty neat because it covers about 90% of the core and I was able to bolt it directly to the mounting tabs on the core with some simple brackets on top and some spacers on the bottom. Much better than through-core zipties. The only trimming required was a small notch for the upper radiator hose (you probably wouldn't even have to do that on SR)

I'm planning on wiring it up according to this diagram pulled from here (http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/efaninstall.htm):

http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/efaninstall2.gif

I bought an e-fan thermostat from Summit Racing for like $20 and was planning on hooking it up on low only due to the massive current draw on high. Looks like it should be okay considering on low it pulls more air than an Altima fan. Cool.

stinky_180

01-21-2008, 01:29 PM

ericcastro

01-21-2008, 01:31 PM

are any of these wiring diagrams for SOHC ?? I have a tauras fan, but want to wire it to a temp sensor. I dont want a relay switch, because I would have to ride it all day to keep my car from getting too cool.
But I would like to put the high speed on a switch for when i am on the track or the 405. :)

i was thinking I would have to take a extra temp sensor from a JY 240, and put it in line. And wire the low speed to that somehow.??

ANY SOHC GUYS??

orion::S14

01-21-2008, 01:34 PM

ok i have a quick question regarding relays. when using two relays, how do i wire them up using the schematics above? would i connect the second rely like this

first relay 87 ------> second relay 30?

No...wire them individually.

2 complete SEPARATE circuits for each fan (for the Altima fans, that is...)

One relay output (pin 87) goes to the blue wire (+), and the second relay's output (pin 87) goes to the green wire (+).

That way, if one fails...then one of the fan 'feeds' is still getting power, and the fan is still running on LOW.

For Altima fans...it takes both green (+) and blue (+) to get high speed...either green OR blue, and you get low.

...

What I mean is - There is a total of 4 wires that need +12v to get high on both fans...

You can group them, like in that diagram posted above...and use 2 relays...high on each fan.

Or use 4 relays, in case one burns out...and you'll still get some airflow from the low speed on that fan.

- Brian

deesz

01-21-2008, 01:42 PM

so are taurus fans good or bad?????

stinky_180

01-21-2008, 02:51 PM

ANY SOHC GUYS??

my pictures of my setup shows a sohc.... and i'll be using the same wiring diagram as well....

stinky_180

01-21-2008, 03:06 PM

No...wire them individually.

2 complete SEPARATE circuits for each fan (for the Altima fans, that is...)

One relay output (pin 87) goes to the blue wire (+), and the second relay's output (pin 87) goes to the green wire (+).

That way, if one fails...then one of the fan 'feeds' is still getting power, and the fan is still running on LOW.

What I mean is - There is a total of 4 wires that need +12v to get high on both fans...

You can group them, like in that diagram posted above...and use 2 relays...high on each fan.

Or use 4 relays, in case one burns out...and you'll still get some airflow from the low speed on that fan.

- Brian

you
is
da
man
:bigok:

cycloneskate

01-22-2008, 02:07 AM

g6civcx

01-22-2008, 07:21 AM

Agreed, 100%.

http://www.classictruckshop.com/clubs/earlyburbs/projects/bosch/foglite.jpg

My comments on this diagram:

1. Make absolutely sure that the IGN or battery power wire has a fuse on it. The fuse needs to be at the lowest rating from the group of: switch, indicator, relay, and all wiring touching these components. Protect the weakest link.
If you're running too much current through this circuit, it will burn out the switch, indicator, relays, and all the wires along the way.

2. Make sure you use at least 12gauge AWG along pins 30 and 87 and anything that touches these pins.

3. I would prefer to put the indicator on pin 87 to make absolutely sure that power is being delivered to the load. The way the indicator is wired up right now only lets you know that the switch is thrown. If the relay is busted you will not know unless you can check the fans.

It's okay for foglights because you can see when the lights are not on, but for a fan I would want to see that current is going to the fan.

ericcastro

01-22-2008, 01:15 PM

not flaming here but electricity runs the same no matter what engine you have. these very basic wiring diagrams really should work for any car. good luck!

But it doesn't

With the DOHC engine, you can wire the low speed to turn on automatically by running the wires into the AC part of the fusebox/relay box in the engine

With the SOHC engines, the relays are different in there and cannot be done this way.

So they are very different. Leaving the SOHC guys to put manual on/off swithces in thier cars. I dont want to do this, my car runs cool, and I run the risk of it being too cool If I am just guessing when to turn the fan on and off.
thats why I wanna know how to have it hooked up automatically for SOHC??

g6civcx

01-22-2008, 04:39 PM

With the SOHC engines, the relays are different in there and cannot be done this way. [/B]

Both engines use a wire to engage the a/c compressor, correct? Why not just tap this wire and use a relay to turn on the fan whenever the compressor is running?

ericcastro

01-22-2008, 07:30 PM

The DOHC engine gets wired through the relay. It wires through the AC fan/electric fan. iirc So it turns on when the engine gets too hot. The SOHC is not set up this way from what I could find out.

If I wanted to hook it to the compressor wire, I might as well just run it to my ACC, or a switch inside. I want my fan to come on only when the temp calls for it. And to turn off when the temp starts to cool.

I think I can get a sensor for a DOHC engine and put it in my radiator hose line. And this will control the fan through tempeture.

g6civcx

01-23-2008, 10:55 AM

If I wanted to hook it to the compressor wire, I might as well just run it to my ACC, or a switch inside.

Note that these options are not equivalent.

I'll check my SOCH FSM and report back.

ericcastro

01-23-2008, 03:01 PM

^thanks. I have been trying to get some info on "proper" SOHC wiring for a little while now.

s13 k3nrock

02-17-2008, 07:32 AM

great write up, i was actually lookin to do this today
and this was exactly the info i was lookin for
thanx again and awsome feedback

s13 k3nrock

02-17-2008, 09:19 AM

http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/efaninstall2.gif

I bought an e-fan thermostat from Summit Racing for like $20 and was planning on hooking it up on low only due to the massive current draw on high. Looks like it should be okay considering on low it pulls more air than an Altima fan. Cool.

i do have a question tho about doing it this way.
do i have to get and e-fan thermostat or can i hook it up to the one thats already on my car??
jus a lil confused on that one

superJoy

02-17-2008, 07:44 PM

i do have a question tho about doing it this way.
do i have to get and e-fan thermostat or can i hook it up to the one thats already on my car??
jus a lil confused on that oneAre you talking about the thermostat switch in the lower radiator hose for the A/C condenser fan? If so, I dunno. It depends on what temperatures that switch operates on... Maybe someone knows?

VoodooRhythm

02-06-2009, 01:28 PM

Hi guys, reall good thread here, very useful info.

Would anyone be able to confirm the spec of the twin fans from a '96-'98 Maxima???
They look almost identicle to the Altima fan but have a different part No. (21481-2L700)

ANVIL

02-06-2009, 03:38 PM

im using a SPAL E-Fan controller, with a 14" Misimoto fan, heres the specs for it:

CFM: 1900
Fan Diameter: 328mm
Fan RPM: 2200
Number of Blades :10
Current: ~5.5A
Voltage: 12V

wasnt enough to keep the RB as cool as id like so i went ahead and picked up another 14" from iLL garage

doesnt show the amp rating but the CFM is 2200 on it.

both wired to my spal fan controller, set it once and i dont have to fuck with any switches

Om1kron

02-16-2009, 02:27 AM

fuck, this was that simple... I couldn't find for shit what the fuck these wires were, finally a diagram that explains what the three wires are.

black - chassis ground
black/red - low speed
blue - high speed.

http://album.hybridz.org/data/527/9325100_0660.JPG

http://album.hybridz.org/data/527/9325100_0661.JPG

The two diagrams above show how to build and wire an auto relay switched 2-speed FORD TAURUS fan.
Parts needed......10 guage wire for the power circuit. 18 guage wire for the control cicuit.
Three relays..... 1) High speed relay, Tyco VF7-12V,70amps
2)Low speed relay and Aux relay, standard BOSCH relays
Two switches,,,,.1)Low speed temp. switch- Adj. Flexilite, FLX-31147 from SUMMIT.
2)High speed temp. switch from Standard Motor Products, TS-158 or TS-392.
I put the adj. low speed switch and the three relays in seperate relay boxes and mounted them in the engine comp. The high speed temp switch I mounted where one of the heater hoses went. Est. cost of parts, less the fan, is $50.00 . 10 guage wire is used in the power circuit and 18 guage in the control circuit. The 12V switched control circuit can be connected to any live connection with ignition on.
The control circuit shown is as follows..... When the temp. reaches your set low speed figure, let's say 190 deg.the low speed relay is energized thru pin 86, 85 connects to 87A of the AUX relay and pulls 30 of that relay, 87 of the low speed relay and 30 are closed sending power to the fan to run at low speed.
When the temp. reaches your high speed switch figure, let's say 210 deg. pin 86 of the AUX. relay energizes thru 85 and 30 releases from 87A of the low speed relay and connects with 85 of the high speed relay which thru 87 of that relay powers the fan to run at high speed.
ARE we confused yet?????
When the temp falls below the high speed swich figure the AUX relay will switch back to the low speed relay.
Therfore low and high speeds will never be on at the same time and you will have the following conditions...
1) No fan on.
2) Low speed on.
3) High speed on.

This set-up has worked great since installation of it and I fought heat problems for a year because of my blower set-up before this change and NO in dash switches.........

LARRY

opponheimer

02-16-2009, 05:12 AM

Taurus fan owns all. If you have an SR with A/C get it, you retard!

ppctx

03-14-2010, 08:34 AM

Now, the stats of each fan are based on what fan setup this company recommends; which is based on factory specs, so please consider this. The stats may not be 100% accurate, but should give you a good idea about each fan.

Examples:

1998 Nissan Altima:
Dual speed
low: ~1200 cfm, Amp draw ~16.5A
high: ~1500 cfm, Amp draw ~22.5A

1995 Ford Taurus (3.8L)
Dual speed
low: ~2500 cfm, Amp draw ~23.75A
high: ~3800cfm, Amp draw ~46.5A

Is the cfm and amp draw listed for the altima fans for the pair of fans combined or for each individual fan.

codyace

03-14-2010, 09:06 AM

Just a word to the wise, just be aware of how much draw that these fans use, and how much extra the Taurus ones do. With our weak alternators, and with me running a plethora of big draw items (meth injection, igintion amp, wideband, aftermarket head unit, etc etc) I noticed my altenator (while testing perfect off car) wasn't up to the ask.

(not to thread jack, but just something to consider) This is why I made my 125 AMP Quest Relocation brackets to deal with the problem. I logged my car at WOT with everything, and it was SAD to see how much draw everything had. This quest upgrade will have no issues.

PM me if you want a set

Off car
http://www.codyace.com/albums/quest_alternator/quest_10.sized.jpg

S13 (first protype, my final design is like above)
http://www.codyace.com/albums/quest_alternator/alt_10.sized.jpg

S14 (typical clearance will be same, but being my filter is there on the side rail, the hose is closer...still works great)
http://www.codyace.com/albums/quest_alternator/quest_20.sized.jpg