new Michael Moore movie sicko

[drifting_changed_mylife]

so i saw this movie over the weekend and it was pretty good. did anyone else see it? and if so, what did u guys think?

[ThatGuy]

Fuck anything and everything Michael Moore does. His fabricated "documentaries" are the lowest forms of propaganda. He makes money off of reinforcing your fears. He falsified info in "Bowling For Columbine", he falsified info in "Fahrenheit 911", I'm sure this is just more of the same. If he hates America, or the way things are done here, he can leave whenever he feels like it. But he doesn't. He stays his fat ass in Hollywood, making money off the weak minded individuals who buy into his bullshit. Do his movies present some ACTUAL facts and problems with this country? Certainly. But he wraps them up in bullshit and lies to make them more "entertaining" and make a dollar.

Yet, you accuse me of being brain washed.

In other words.. No, I have not seen it, nor do I ever plan to give his fat ass a single dollar at any point in my life.


This thread will not end well.

[Farzam]

The OP must be one of the dumbest people ever.

Maybe that's why I like neg repping him.

[steve shadows]

I love people who rock the soviet symbol...

That would be like me rocking a swastica, ok maybe not that bad, but to some people thats what it represents.

[opponheimer]

http://www.th-photo.com/images/michael_moore_460.jpg

[Ian]

he's a fucking slob...smart guy though



i enjoyed farenheit 911 because i don't like george bush


but that's about it


people who buy into his bullshit are fucking idiots

[Phlip]

I find Michael Moore entertaining on an "entertainment" level, but I prefer to draw my own conclusions about most things, without having to be fed it by someone with ulterior motives...
I don't need coaching to know how shittily things are being run, nor should anyone with a brain capable of real thought. Some people NEED Michael Moore and his shit, I find it only optional.

[drifting_changed_mylife]

how did this become a tread about me?!? lol

[Phlip]

No, it was a thread about Michael Moore's movie and an conversation about how we feel about it, or him in cases where we have (or will) not seen the movie

[sr20steve]

Michael moore isn't fat, he is just big boned :D


http://www.th-photo.com/images/michael_moore_460.jpg

God that is a dugusting man....

[bamaboy]

how did this become a tread about me?!? lol
because you are a fucking idiot who has no respect for anything and you believe some social misfits idiotic views on behind the scenes political topics:fawk:

[LongGrain]

whats the new movie about?

[BustedS13]

michael moore cashes in on tragedy. he sensationalizes and fabricates to draw crowds.

he appeals to the lowest common denominator. that's why you get highschool shitheads talking about how awesome his movies are.

[Phlip]

whats the new movie about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicko

[drifting_changed_mylife]

Wow I didn’t know talking about this movie can make all the girls on this tread to have their period all simultaneously. All I asked was what you guys thought about the movie. And no I don’t believe everything I see or hear from this guy, but I do agree on some points that he makes. In all his films he makes very vivid points and uses facts, documents and video that backs up what he’s saying. And yes I AM A SOCIALIST!! For you meat heads that don’t know the difference. And proud of it! And I don’t believe Michelle Moore hates America, I think he LOVES America he just hates the way America is ran. I feel the same way I was born and raised here, and I love America I just think some things need to change and that people need to lend a helping hand and worry about the COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE and not just there self’s.

[bamaboy]

to the OP, you realize your shitty little rep has no effect on me right. try suicide, I heard it's a rush

[kdashy]

I downloaded it.

I enjoyed it.

I don't take it seriously though.

[drifting_changed_mylife]

to the OP, you realize your shitty little rep has no effect on me right. try suicide, I heard it's a rush

LOL your so cool with all ur little green dots one day i hope to be just like you :fawk: get a life dude

[SimpleSexy180]

ill probably check it out.

[bamaboy]

LOL your so cool with all ur little green dots one day i hope to be just like you :fawk: get a life dude
I'm glad you figured out I base my life on little green dots on zilvia, I was hoping someone would notice before I ended it all.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

I heard that tool set up outside Kaiser Permanente's (The HMO I belong to) head offices in Oakland, CA and projected his movie on the side of the building.

But his sound system didnt work. :keke:

FAIL!

[Phlip]

Perhaps I am just as guilty here, but can I ask everyone to please stick to the topic, Grimmace's new movie?

[steve shadows]

And yes I AM A SOCIALIST


Then sell your car, your promoting commercialism by modifying it.

Your not even close to a real socialist.




in referrence to the OP

I saw Glen Beck interview Micheal Moore on this movie and he said that he trust the Government with his money more than big business. The government has been very efficent in managing social security checks for his ailing grandmother so why not give them control of Health Care...

is he fukcing retarded?

[TheWolf]

You can't claim to be socialist unless you've made 100k in a year and paid taxes on it. Till then you're just playing.

This movie is a terribly one sided movie even from the socialist view. The only attempt at explanation of the cost associated with this FREE coverage and how much medical guys get paid in this new gov't owned healthcare was a doc who owned a house and made payments on an audi. That was considered "successful" in france, that, I guess, he had that much disposable income. House and car = success. I must be ballin because I've got a house and 2 cars all without 8 years of med school. If the cost of healthcare is so finite as the film states then it should be a flat tax on everyone and never a percentage of income. Just say rich or poor, everyone is going to come up with 3k a year for FREE health care. Of course then you couldn't label it FREE like he repeats no less than 30 times. It's not FREE if it involves a 15% income tax. That might be ok for joe the construction worker who makes 30k a year. That's only 4.5k in lost income. Fair trade for FREE healthcare. What about people who run successful businesses and make 250k a year. 37.5k doesn't sound as good of a bargain. Especially when he shelled out a previous 37.5k for social security. A guy who makes 250k a year gets to spend 70k for FREE! health care and a promise that when he turns 67 he'll get maybe 900 a month. WOW. Sign me up!! God forbid he dies before then while chugging a cigar and driving his big yacht because surprise. Yes uncle sam wins and gets to keep all of it!! JACKPOT! To bad michael more didn't do a film on social security and the scam that it is. Healthcare atleast has to give you something for your money.

BTW. I spend 425 a month on insurance because I have a heart condition. It's cheap compared to a trip to the ER or surgery. When I sit down at the beginning of the month, I make sure I have it covered or I work extra. If people spent half the time trying to figure out ways to make money instead of save it. Everyone would be alot richer.

[mRclARK1]

Michael Moore is so full of shit in a whole new way, that it actually shows in his weight. lol

He completely lies, and makes up "statistics" His Bowling for Colombine movie was so full of them. I've lived in Canada and the US, and frankly most of his "stats" about the lower crime rate in Canada are pure BS. Yes, there are less guns in Canada, but the amount of violent crime per capita is actually higher then the US.

Don't even get me started on Fahrenheit 911.

This new movie is no different. Michael Moore just has an axe to grind with ANYONE who is even remotely to the right of center, a capitalist, and/or doesn't agree completely with his, so called, facts.

[s13rookie]

The reason his movies are so succesful is simple: too many americans are becoming lazy and want people to think for them. They dont want to spend hours reading the paper or watching the news. Thats too much work, its easier to pay $10 for a movie ticket and stare at a screen for 2 hours. Thats a reason why the nightly news spends more time talking about britney spears new haircut than they do about the war we are in.

I havent seen any of moore's movies, and i dont plan on it. I have read and heard enough about them to know that i dont need someone else thinking for me.

[Farzam]

Socialism isn't that bad IMO...

This OP needs to REALLY get off this forum.

What really bites ass is tax breaks. I wouldn't mind a really high sales tax if they obliterated income taxes and such. Then the people who make bank and buy yachts pay up and then broke people who are broke and people have to save their money and shti.

Sure it wouldn't work but I could imagine.

Edit: Yes I posted this just to see what someone could say to disbar the idea. I just want another view on it.

[eastcoastS14]

ugggg I swear zilvia is right wing lol. Michael Moore is very smart and does make a very good argument about things in all of his movies. Yes he manipulates some statistics I'm sure but just about every statistic about everything is manipulated. The fact of the matter is we live under a government and an administration that manipulates information all the time, yet it seems like every one here is content to swallow that down but when some guy makes a movie and presesnts statistics that are slightly skewed you call him a liar. Statistics about absolutely everything are skewed to make the side that is making its case seem like it has the correct point of view. In this country we are fed skewed statisics about drugs, crime, poverty...you name it and politicians lie all the time. Even in this current war there is no clear estimate on how many deaths have occured in Iraq, the US govt says one number while Iraqi hostpitals are claiming it to be much higher etc. The fact is that Michael more is making movies focusing on issues that are wrong in our country that very often go unnoticed...and I am very thankful that he brings these things to light. Now....the problem is that people assume that he is presenting an unbiased argument, but he never even states that his arguments are unbiased. Moore does not say this is the gospel truth and that his side is 100% correct with no political bias, he makes his argument that is clearly a biased one and manipulates certain facts to support his argument. Theres nothing wrong with what he does because once again the US govt and many other news outlets etc do it every day with a much bigger budget and audience....if michael moore is a bias asshole then FOX news should be off the air, along with don Imas and o'Riely and all those other dipshits. Moore always presents and interesting case, that is for the most part true, then people nit pick apart the facts, find a couple that are wrong or partially true and call him a liar....all those who feel this way I challenge you to listen to one speech by bush and then check the facts against what he said and get back to me. You should never let someone make up your mind for you, dont take what you see in moore's movies to be the gospel truth because he never even claims it to be; and dont take what the government says to be gospel because it may be false as well, instead listen to both arguments, go to the library or sit online do your own research and make up your own mind


come on zilvians...come to the liberal side......we have cake and punch over here :keke:

[s13rookie]

What really bites ass is tax breaks. I wouldn't mind a really high sales tax if they obliterated income taxes and such. Then the people who make bank and buy yachts pay up and then broke people who are broke and people have to save their money and shti.



Edit: Yes I posted this just to see what someone could say to disbar the idea. I just want another view on it.

it wouldnt happen due to the fact that the same people buying yachts and making bank are the same people that make the tax laws

We dont need higher taxes, we need more responsible gov'mt spending, and im not talking about decreasing military or anything "tree hugger-ish". Shit like $400 screwdrivers has got to end.............but save that for another thread.

[Wahl 136]

If I remember correctly, Michael Moore had to go in front of a govt. comittee because he took 9/11 workers who were sick to Cuba for medical treatment and his paperwork didn't cover the time he was there or allow him to travel for medical.

I don't recall exactly what happend, but I do know he was in a good amount of trouble for it. Does anyone else remember reading that?

[Baka Sama]

Socialism isn't that bad IMO...
What really bites ass is tax breaks. I wouldn't mind a really high sales tax if they obliterated income taxes and such. Then the people who make bank and buy yachts pay up and then broke people who are broke and people have to save their money and shti.

Sure it wouldn't work but I could imagine.

Edit: Yes I posted this just to see what someone could say to disbar the idea. I just want another view on it.

Its a good read and a great idea on exactly what your saying. Increasing sales tax and getting rid of income tax.

http://a6.vox.com/6a00c225290e8a8fdb00c225291b16604a-500pi


On Topic....

No I havent watched the movie yet but I will when it comes to video. His movies are entertaining and makes you atleast think about current issues.

Its interesting how people like ThatGuy are quick to jump down someones throat about Moore and how hes full of lies and propaganda to feed on your fears. But this administration does the same thing only worse and no one says a thing about it. Take a recent example of how Cheney (The fucking vice president) is saying how hes not part of the executive branch, so he doesn't have to comply with executive secrecy rules. wtf?!

Im not a fan of Michael Moore but I rather paint a life size picture of him on my car than ever ride around with a Bush/Cheney bumper sticker.

[S14DB]

Wait, I can't hate Moore AND Cheney?

[Baka Sama]

Nope.

~~~~~~~~~~

[HalveBlue]

Wait, I can't hate Moore AND Cheney?

Of course not.

In this world there is only the Right and the Left. Black and White.

So make up your mind, hippie.

[drifting_changed_mylife]

im glad SOME people agree with me lol

[drifting_changed_mylife]

now back to the movie... i watch it, i liked it.. i went to see that movie cuz i think he makes decent movies.. i am very open minded and belive me if thatguy or mrclark1 made a movie about how much shit michael moore is full of, belive me i would be 1st online.

and if you havent seen the movie please dont post cuz thats what this thread is all about in the 1st place. you guys cant tell me socilizing medicine is mot a bad idea. i work in medical billing and this stuff can ruine lives! for example... thatguy lets say god forbid, u get injured and u have no health insurence, and it ends up that u need a operation.... do u know that 1 1/2 hr is the or will cost you 3,697.00 and 5 hrs in the recovery room is around 3,513.00, not including the drugs to get you to sleep and the doctors fee and depending on the procedure your bill in total can run up to 80,000 for that 1 procedure????? can you aford that?

[Phlip]

Wait, I can't hate Moore AND Cheney?
I run a fine line, here... I have been presented with NO reasons to like Cheney, but at least Michael Moore is entertaining and makes a good point from time to time.
Nope.

~~~~~~~~~~
Why not? I believe they call it "progressive"
Of course not.

In this world there is only the Right and the Left. Black and White.

So make up your mind, hippie.
See above
now back to the movie... i watch it, i liked it.. i went to see that movie cuz i think he makes decent movies.. i am very open minded and belive me if thatguy or mrclark1 made a movie about how much shit michael moore is full of, belive me i would be 1st online.

and if you havent seen the movie please dont post cuz thats what this thread is all about in the 1st place. you guys cant tell me socilizing medicine is mot a bad idea. i work in medical billing and this stuff can ruine lives! for example... thatguy lets say god forbid, u get injured and u have no health insurence, and it ends up that u need a operation.... do u know that 1 1/2 hr is the or will cost you 3,697.00 and 5 hrs in the recovery room is around 3,513.00, not including the drugs to get you to sleep and the doctors fee and depending on the procedure your bill in total can run up to 80,000 for that 1 procedure????? can you aford that?
See, but he has insurance, and so do I... One time I was in the hospital for 16 days, 5 of which was spent in a morphine-induced coma, had 2 MRIs and various other tests and enough drugs to break Columbia, it felt like. I had surgery to wire my broken jaw shut, then I was sent home. 3 days after arriving home, I got a bill for FIFTY SEVEN THOUSAND FUCKING DOLLARS, mostly for the drugs. 5 days after that, I got an amended bill for $275 (yes, two hundred and seventy five). 3 years later, a friend of mine works for United Healthcare and did a little recon, I would find that $57k I would have had to pay was only worth $13k when they had to pay it?
I think before we begin looking into socializing healthcare, something should be done about the gouging of people who obviously CAN'T afford shit. If socializing is the answer, then the answer needs to be a little better than what was presented. I am in agreement with TheWolf, on this one, and I don't pay NEAR what he does a month in insurance either.

[steve shadows]

ugggg I swear zilvia is right wing lol. Michael Moore is very smart and does make a very good argument about things in all of his movies. Yes he manipulates some statistics I'm sure but just about every statistic about everything is manipulated.

You dont study law much? Const History? anything like that?

You cant lie about statistics or patch bold faced lies together to make a claim, They have to have some backing.

You say we live under an administration of liars? Like Clinton was any better?

Its selective political hatred.

If the current president was green party you would spread your legs.


and in regards to saying this forum is "rigth wing"

well no, but i think people who work on cars and fix things that break themselves and build their cars with their money and blood sweat and tears tend to agree on many virtues and ethical fiscal responsibilities advocated by the right.

When your car breaks does the govt fix it? No you have to do it yourself. Do you buy parts from the govt? Fuck no, no one would trust parts made with the lowest liability burden on the producer of those goods ie the govt.

So why would you fucking trust them to manage healthcare. If they can't manage invading a dust bowl shithouse like Iraq we can entrust "American Beuracratic institutions" to promote advances in cutting edge competitve market medicine?

There is a reason why every other country flys their leaders here for invasive medical procedures at the higher cost but great wealth of technological and medical know-how and leading edge procedures. These procedures were not born from burdening medical companies and forcing them to combine into a govt non-competitive, psudo-merit based system where no competiton in the capitalist sense is available to fuel further advances and landmark discoveries.

Look at any attempt at socialized medicine or socialism systems in the last 500 years. They have all lead to complacency within the nation in regards to economy and innovation, hence you get these mixed systems or psudo-socialist regimes taking their place, like Stalinist Russia and after, Curretn Chinease govt, which by all accounts are not very socialist at all.

[Baka Sama]

You dont study law much? Const History? anything like that?

You cant lie about statistics or patch bold faced lies together to make a claim, They have to have some backing.

You say we live under an administration of liars? Like Clinton was any better?

Its selective political hatred.

If the current president was green party you would spread your legs.


and in regards to saying this forum is "rigth wing"

well no, but i think people who work on cars and fix things that break themselves and build their cars with their money and blood sweat and tears tend to agree on many virtues and ethical fiscal responsibilities advocated by the right.

When your car breaks does the govt fix it? No you have to do it yourself. Do you buy parts from the govt? Fuck no, no one would trust parts made with the lowest liability burden on the producer of those goods ie the govt.

So why would you fucking trust them to manage healthcare. If they can't manage invading a dust bowl shithouse like Iraq we can entrust "American Beuracratic institutions" to promote advances in cutting edge competitve market medicine?

No its not selective political hatred. Clinton may have been a liar like ALL presidents but this admin is by far the worst I have seen in my lifetime. I expect to be lied to to some extent but this admin is just full of BS. The worst part is that everytime someone calls them out on it, they find some way to throw the blame on someone else or come up with some rediculous way of not getting questioned. Im so sick of hearing Right wing this or Left wing that.. We're all the same!

Im not saying that the government needs to take 100% control over health care, but our health care system is failing and SOMETHING needs to be done about it. I work in the ED and last week at work I watched a lady in her early 30's crying over the phone with her husband. Her 5yo son had fell one story and she was trying to decide if they had enough money for the CT scan and xrays. She obviously loved her son but imagine the situation she was in. She had ins but still couldnt afford the deductible for it.

Then.. on the same day a mexican guy came in who was hurt "working construction at home" (12am). The guy gave us a fake name, no ssn, a fake address, and was treated and sent home. Sometimes it pays to be illegal.

[drifting_changed_mylife]

^^ your so right the way the health system is ran, you have to choose. you shouldnt have to. i really wish ppl would just go watch the movie. a socialist health system works. we are the only modernized country that dosent have that kind of system. france, london, canada, cuba and even IRAQ has that kind of system.

[s13rookie]

^^ your so right the way the health system is ran, you have to choose. you shouldnt have to. i really wish ppl would just go watch the movie. a socialist health system works. we are the only modernized country that dosent have that kind of system. france, london, canada, cuba and even IRAQ has that kind of system.


last time i checked, london is a city, not a country. I guess a socialist education sucks too huh?

[drifting_changed_mylife]

u know what i mean dick head

[lok]

I finally figured out that OP stands for original poster.

Everyone can skew facts and stats but it is just one persons opinion and they are entitled to it.

I think the only way to change things now is to have a revolution.

To bad the world economy would crash if the U.S. fell into civil unrest or maybe not.

Just my op though.

[s13rookie]

.

Everyone can skew facts and stats but it is just one persons opinion and they are entitled to it.




That is true, but when people pass their opinions off as facts, and fabricate details to support said "facts" that problems arise.

[lok]

That is true, but when people pass their opinions off as facts, and fabricate details to support said "facts" that problems arise.

very true but people have to be willing to check into things on there own but like it was said before that would involve real work.

it is easier just to take things at face value, which most people do.

[Ian]

DOWN WITH AMERICA!!!


LET THE UPRISING BEGIN!


Nah fuck that, i'm too lazy for an uprising...I'm just gonna move to a different country that's cooler

[steve shadows]

DOWN WITH AMERICA!!!


LET THE UPRISING BEGIN!


Nah fuck that, i'm too lazy for an uprising...I'm just gonna move to a different country that's cooler

from what I hear this place beats everywhere else.

everywhere else is alreay 3x the police state.

[Ian]

Meh...I donno.


I'm just tired of BS politics here...I feel like England would be better...even though it's ugly as hell there


Maybe Italy...somewhere off in the countryside where it's nice and warm all the time

[Baka Sama]

I hear New Zealand is nice this time of year lol

[Farzam]

I dont' see why we're talking about it.

I don't think e-debating will do anything.

If you have a belief try and win over the people who need to be won over and achieve it.

Self heroics CAN be a good thing.

[jilo]

[/quote] See, but he has insurance, and so do I... One time I was in the hospital for 16 days, 5 of which was spent in a morphine-induced coma, had 2 MRIs and various other tests and enough drugs to break Columbia, it felt like. I had surgery to wire my broken jaw shut, then I was sent home. 3 days after arriving home, I got a bill for FIFTY SEVEN THOUSAND FUCKING DOLLARS, mostly for the drugs. 5 days after that, I got an amended bill for $275 (yes, two hundred and seventy five). 3 years later, a friend of mine works for United Healthcare and did a little recon, I would find that $57k I would have had to pay was only worth $13k when they had to pay it?
I think before we begin looking into socializing healthcare, something should be done about the gouging of people who obviously CAN'T afford shit. If socializing is the answer, then the answer needs to be a little better than what was presented. I am in agreement with TheWolf, on this one, and I don't pay NEAR what he does a month in insurance either.[/quote]




bingo, last year while moving my roll away tool box the damn thing flipped over on me and almost ripped my middle finger off. i went and waited in the emergency room, which by the way is just a place to wait at my hospital.
got myself i think 7 stitches and was out in quick time.

later i got a check for roughly 1000$ and flipped shit. see my hospital has a program for people without money and i filled out for it (i was without a job at the time). well after seeing that dollar amount i planned on not paying it and i still plan on not paying it. now im glad i flicked that piece of finger fat at the wall to see if it would stick! (it did, i wonder who found it?)

i for one dont trust the medical industry very much due to what happened to my mother. she had a fucking quack for a doctor and ended up getting perscribed tons of pills that made her crazy. i mean she literally ate pills for breakfast and dinner, like enough to make a damn sandwich out of. i can remember when i was little, asking her why she did it and she told me if mommy dosent eat these shell die. that does some shit to a kid. i can also remember a few years ago when her addiction got to its worst point and coming home with my girlfriend to find her convulsing on the floor because she was so fucked up. that definatley does something to ya. she still owes tons of money to the hospital for all the times shes been in and will continue to owe untill she dies.

my girlfreind is another perfect case. she has chrons disease and when she has a flare up she absolutely neeeds to get to the hospital. the amout they charge her is staggering. although she is sitting beside me as i type this, im not even gonna ask her for a ball park amount for fear of making her cry.
even worse is the way they treat her when she is there. i cant count how many times ive wanted to hit people for just straight up hurting her to try and gain useless info. if your intestines were swelled shut and one side had a whole shitload of stuff under pressure, would you enjoy someone poking around your belly trying to see if it hurts? she crying and screaming from the pain and youre gonna poe her in the fucking stomach? shes going for an xray in 2 godamn minutes wtf? i need to stop typing before i get really mad.

this situation has taught me soo much about living with a disorder. i consider myself very lucky and almost non deserving of the way i heal.
i dont go to the doctor, i dont have health insurance and dont want it. dont need it. when i get hurt i take care of it, when i get sick i take care of it. i heal very fast and living with megan (gf) i almost feel like an asshole for my body being better than hers. its hard to see someone you love in pain and know theres absolutely nothing you can do about it. i keep telling her that someday well find something, just to ease her mind.

the way i see it is, going to the doctor is like going to a mechanic in the way that its always better to know the situaton youre going into. not all doctors are bad but there are a pack of assholes that dont mind turning you out for your money.

moral of the story: i dont trust doctors so i watch my ass around them, they have power.

[eastcoastS14]

You dont study law much? Const History? anything like that?

You cant lie about statistics or patch bold faced lies together to make a claim, They have to have some backing.

You say we live under an administration of liars? Like Clinton was any better?

Its selective political hatred.

If the current president was green party you would spread your legs.


and in regards to saying this forum is "rigth wing"

well no, but i think people who work on cars and fix things that break themselves and build their cars with their money and blood sweat and tears tend to agree on many virtues and ethical fiscal responsibilities advocated by the right.

When your car breaks does the govt fix it? No you have to do it yourself. Do you buy parts from the govt? Fuck no, no one would trust parts made with the lowest liability burden on the producer of those goods ie the govt.

So why would you fucking trust them to manage healthcare. If they can't manage invading a dust bowl shithouse like Iraq we can entrust "American Beuracratic institutions" to promote advances in cutting edge competitve market medicine?

There is a reason why every other country flys their leaders here for invasive medical procedures at the higher cost but great wealth of technological and medical know-how and leading edge procedures. These procedures were not born from burdening medical companies and forcing them to combine into a govt non-competitive, psudo-merit based system where no competiton in the capitalist sense is available to fuel further advances and landmark discoveries.

Look at any attempt at socialized medicine or socialism systems in the last 500 years. They have all lead to complacency within the nation in regards to economy and innovation, hence you get these mixed systems or psudo-socialist regimes taking their place, like Stalinist Russia and after, Curretn Chinease govt, which by all accounts are not very socialist at all.

meh your first comment is questionable, I have found that this administration has lied pretty much outright to the american people about who said this or that and whatever else....this administration seems to feel that as long as they repeat something enough it becomes the truth, after all stats are only false if someone is willing to go check them and contradict you. As for clinton I am not under the illusion that clinton told the truth about everything infact I will admit that any politician republican or democrat lies, however according to TIME magazine I believe Bush has been named the worst president in US history....and he also has a 20something% approval rating, maybe 30% actually. Now the govt obviously doesnt help you fix your car if its broken...but wouldnt it be nice if they did? The truth is that we all fix our cars because we can afford it, while other cannot. Same deal with health care, nationalizing health care would help both the privaleged and less fortunate to recieve the care that they need. I believe that the US should be a country of brothers, that Ill pay more taxes to help you out when you need it and youll pay more to help me when I need it rather than every man for himself. I feel like people in the US are so distant and have this "well fuck the other guy" attitude about things. As for the foreign leaders argument, it's interesting that you would say that because interestingly enough the US has the best extreme medicince system. We are very good at treating extremely rare diseases and preforming ridiculously complicated operations. Unfortunately, that is not what the majority of medicine is and we have a pretty poor healthcare system compared to other nations when it comes to treating the common cold etc. So yeah we can seperate conjoined twins but europe is better if you need a cat scan or have the flu. We should all be open to change and aknowledge the fact that maybe the US isnt the best at absolutely everything...Our nation needs to learn how to take care of our fellow man rather than turn a profit from absolutely everything including peoples pain and suffering

[kuramaya]

ugggg I swear zilvia is right wing lol.

come on zilvians...come to the liberal side......we have cake and punch over here :keke:


Your not alone Brother. I am A PROUD DEMOCRAT!!!!

[articdragon192]

Want better medical? Privatize it all. Competition between companies leads to advancement and lower prices. And from what I know, "socialist" medical systems suck and have a major waiting list of patients. Try to make an appointment in England and see how long it takes for a doctor to see you.

[S14DB]

Want better medical? Privatize it all. Competition between companies leads to advancement. And from what I know, "socialist" medical systems suck and have a major waiting list of patients. Try to make an appointment in England and see how long it takes for a doctor to see you.

Hell just goto Canadia on vacation and get injured. You'll be running for the border.

[articdragon192]

Lol, isn't Canada just as bad?