TURBO:.. custom,, questions

[AJ]

Is it cheaper to go custom with your turbo set up. &nbsp;It seems like all the kits replace a lot of stuff when some of it is unnessisary. &nbsp;Is it possible to get a turbo up and running for less than 3g's if you do the installation and find a good used intercooler etc. &nbsp;And then slowly upgrade things as you go? &nbsp;I'm so lost,, answer what you can <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> thanks!

[whateverjames]

i think it's possible. i can't give you answers for your car but for my SOHC, i'm buying a $1500 kit that comes with the bare minimum. &nbsp;oil lines, manifold, t3/t4 turbo. get a used intercooler for a few hundred, intercooler piping for 100. fuel pump for 125. ECU re-prorammed is a must 600. injectors ??. you're looking at 2500-3000, i'd guess, i haven't done the math.

[sykikchimp]

Sure, with USED parts. &nbsp;Check out this guy...<a href="http://dave_240sx.tripod.com/240sxdaperformance/" target='_blank'>http://dave_240sx.tripod.com/240sxdaperformance/</a>

He supposedly has a turbo kit starting at $1000 bucks for the KA. &nbsp;Haven't talked to him yet though. &nbsp;I think he's a list member over on FA.

[daperformance]

DAPerformance (Dave)
We don't sell just used turbos, we sell new also it just depends on how much you want to spend. The used turbo is a starter kit and all of the turbos are guaranteed. These are legit kits and we are a reputable company. All manifolds are new Rev-Hard. If you have any questions please go to my site and contact me through e-mail link.
Http://dave_240sx.tripod.com/240sxdaperformance/

[DSC]

I was just checkin that site out a little while ago, someone over at NICO asked about it. With ECU and exhaust and everything, looks like I could get my (realistic) dream setup for under 3k <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> I have about two hundred dollars now so I don't think that'll happen any time soon, but the site is bookmarked for future reference.

[sykikchimp]

Hey Dave.. &nbsp;cool. &nbsp;I didn't realize you were on the Forum. &nbsp;I sent you an email already with a bunch of questions. &nbsp;It might be cool if you (or I ) posted your answers on here for informations sake?

[Takumi]

Wow, if this isn't too good to be true...hmm..that opens up a lot of possibilities for custom turbos for the KA. So far, it sounds good. Plus you can stay in your budget and still get the good parts like HKS, Blitz, and GReddy blow off valves, intercoolers, and wastegates while managing to still have change for gauges, turbo timer, and a boost controller. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

It would be SO awesome if I could accomplish this around $3,000-3,500 total. A T25 turbo sounds pretty good, even though it seems rather small for an engine like the KA. However, the characteristics of it sounds like something I'd use. It spools up quick and it pulls decent power (I'm not into higher HP setups, just something a bit over 200 at least). I'd hate to put up with turbo lag on a road course while trying to drive through hairpins. x_x

I just have one question. How are the Revhard manifolds? I keep hearing negative things about them and people would be better off with custom welded manifolds instead. Unfortunately, not everyone has that alternative, but I know people are seeking the most efficient and dependable manifold they can find. So what's up with the Revhard units? What can be done?

(Edited by Takumi at 12:15 pm on Feb. 1, 2002)

[daperformance]

I havent heard anything negative about Revhard. I havent had any problems myself on my cars. There is a problem with a custom manifold. The welds tend to brake often. Beleive me i have tried this one. We are also looking into other companies for maifolds and have talked to a few but there prices are high. The point of this turbo kit is to keep it affordable. &nbsp;We are going ot be considering other companies for those who would rather have a different manifold.
The reason our prices are goodis because we put kits together ourself with ot the 100% mark up. We dont include BOVs and intercoolers because we want you guys to have a choice in wha you want to your prefferences. I preffer TurboXs myself but some of you would prefer something different. &nbsp;Some people say that you get what you pay for. &nbsp;Lets stop and think about that really. Who are the ones who say that? I would think its the people who paid that much for there stuff and the people who sell there stuff for that much. So in other words... You are getting a good conscious for spending what you did.
Thanks for the business of you guys who have already purchased from us.

[luke20]

I was (and still am - to an extent) considering turboing my KA24DE. &nbsp;Here's what I figured out, and you really should get ALL of this, esp. fuel management:
1. T3/T04E turbo &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;$600 used
2. manifold &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; $400 new (Rev Hard)
3. injectors &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; $400/4 (72lb/hr)
4. fuel pump &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; $50 (300ZX TT)
5. Jim Wolf ECU &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;$675
6. MAF sensor &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;$325 (mustang cobra)
7. fuel rail &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; $225 (Jim Wolf)
8. con. rods &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;$650 (Crower)
9. pistons &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; $650 (JE 8.5:1)

For a grand total of under $4000 (excluding block and headwork) you can have a killer turbo set-up, capable of super-high HP, and low 1/4 mi. times. &nbsp;Or you can buy a kit that limits your boost to around 10lbs, max, and still get beat by SR20's. &nbsp;Your call. &nbsp;You can make a small boost set-up for less, but DON'T cut corners with fuel management. &nbsp;the stock injectors can only flow enough for about 5 lbs, max. &nbsp;The blocks' strengths in stock 240's are debatable, too. &nbsp;That's why if you're going to do it, do it all. &nbsp;

[daperformance]

wow! where did you find those prices? Those are unheard of! Those are way better than what i get them for. That revhard manifold is in no way the right price, no offense, neither are fuel injectors or turbos, or fuel pumps. If they were, i would be able to sell my kits for less. Those are way cheaper than what you should be ready for. Even a used TT Fuel pump is at minumum $100. Injectors i have found were RCs for $175 a peice for 370cc- not much more than stock.
I havent heard of a kit that limits boost to 10lbs. There isnt a turbo KA i have ever seen get smoked by a stock sr20. You are comparing an Sr20-200hp at the flywheel, against a turbo Ka- 215-225HP at the rear wheel at 6 lbs of boost. Stock KA injectors are in my other 240 with this turbo kit and are holding 7.5 lbs very well as the same as the stock fuel pump. KA blocks are very strong! The pistons are great for N/a motors., but not turbo motors. However, stock Ka internals can easily hold 11-13 lbs of boost as long as you do upgrade fuel &nbsp;managment and thats near 240-260hp with a KA. An Sr can only handle safely 14 lbs stock but still needing the same fuel upgrades. Hp numbers are very similiar. I love the Sr20s and Ca18s, but numbers are numbers. and the Kas are still bigger displacement motors. &nbsp;You may have to change KA internals for high boost, but the market is becoming more popular for them as the Sr parts market still fairly small. Both are excellent Nissan motors. It just comes down to peoples prefferences and know how.
Also, i can all those parts you listed Luke special order if you are needing them. Thanks

[Takumi]

Hmm...how badly will the mpg decrease with a turbo kit? I just know an SR20DET is around 21-22 mpg. My shitty 'teg (it's just got intake and exhaust) is around 20-22 mpg so I can sorta put up with decreased mileage. Just as long as it doesn't go below 20-21 mpg, it's cool. Just sorta worried about the car being daily driven to work or school on the weekdays and out cruising around on the weekends.

Don't get me wrong, the turbo isnt' for my 'teg. &nbsp;I'm getting another car in a few months and I'm just planning ahead.


(Edited by Takumi at 4:45 pm on Feb. 1, 2002)

[AJ]

this is the greatest topic ever,, i love it.. this info is sWeet,, thanks for you all that are responding. ur awesome..

now my question.. &nbsp;I want about 200 or so hp to the ground. &nbsp;What is the cheapest i can go to get to this end?

also. How hard is this stuff to install?

and do the kits come with the piping required?

how much r used front mounts?

thanks <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'> answer what u can.. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> &nbsp; -AJ

[anthony240]

That's a good list Luke, but you're missing critical components there. You'll also need a custom downpipe and custom i/c piping, and intercooler of course. And a BOV and Wastegate is a must for a durable system. Also, a boost controller, turbo timer, and other management devices must also be considered. A good book I learned to follow is &quot;Maximum Boost&quot; by Corky Bell, a very good book that focuses on the right and wrongs of a turbo setup, and mostly on maintaining the system, which is most important.

[daperformance]

AJ-
Cheapest isnt the best way to look about a turbo kit. Sure ours is affordable, but we dont sell complete kits in order to let you decide on what you want to add with it. We can put a kit toether for you. Just email me about it if you are intrested.
It really isnt hard to install a turbo kit. Its really just time consuming.
Some kits come with piping and etc like Nsport and Xs-engineering and Revhard kits. But then you only get there choice of items with there kits. Its not a bad idea, but can get expensive. Its your taste on what you want to do. We can install the kit also if you would like. So if you need help, bring it to us and we can do it for you. I would definatly start off with some small boost applications though. and work your way up from there. It also gives you a chance to learn your car all over again.

(Edited by daperformance at 8:54 pm on Feb. 1, 2002)

[DSC]

I can't believe I'm asking this <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>
What the difference between a boost controler and a turbo timer?

Hehe, Dave, you may be selling some of your kits to people who ask quesitons like this :biggrin: hope it comes with good instructions...

[Takumi]

Boost controller, you can up the boost electronically (Blitz Dual Solenoid, HKS, GReddy Profec, Apex'i AVC Type R etc) or manually (it's a small knob thing that you hook up to your wastegate(?)). So yea, how's the miles per gallon and how's the turbo kit on daily driving? How much is it to install a turbo kit?

Thanks for paying lots of attention to our questions, this is really informative.

(Edited by Takumi at 6:26 pm on Feb. 1, 2002)

[whateverjames]

why is a downpipe needed? downpipe replaces the cat right? &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;replacing that won't be good for emissions laws here.

[DSC]

Thanks Takumi, I knew it was something like that but whats a turbo timer then?

[Takumi]

The turbo timer keeps your engine running for whatever amount of time you set it to after you turn of the ignition. &nbsp;This gives your turbo some time to spool down after you've turned off your car. &nbsp;Cuz if the engine stopped running the moment you took your keys out and the turbo is still spinning, that'll mess up your unit.

[MrMigs]

If you have a turbo timer, you can take the key out of the ignition when you're done driving, and the device will let your car idle for a little bit to allow oil to cool down using your engine's cooling equipment, instead of just letting it just sit there.

When the timer is ends, it shuts off your motor.

I'm pretty sure it goes something like this...

[DSC]

Oh, heh, ok. A friend of mine left his car running outside my house for like an hour (with his keys in) because he is soo used to hearing his engine running when he walks away <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[anthony240]

I just talked to a friend of mine about this, and he says you don't have to go all out, just start on a simple setup. Use interchangeable parts from other cars, like the 300zx (fuel pump, filter, injectors) and a muffler shop can provide mandrel bent pipes. Also, he said that you don't necessarily have to get a big turbo, but in the KA's case, a turbine of at least T4 must be used because the only manifold I know (Revhard) uses a T4 flange, so a T3/T4 turbo is probably best.

And, he told me that a manual boost controller is actually better than an electronic, because you have more control and it reacts faster.

A downpipe connects the turbine outlet to the exhaust system. You can make it as long as you want, because it'll be custom anyway. I'm not sure, but from what I've seen, the downpipes of Nsport, Fmax, and XS are short, so they must have connected to the cat (on S14s). And if you're concerned about getting rid of the cat, replace the hollow resonator with a real cat.

[alchemist]

I always thought a T3/T4 was a T3 exhaust side, and a T4 compressor. &nbsp;so it would fit a manifold with a T3 flange...right? &nbsp;

A downpipe is needed because its the pipe that goes from the out side of the turbo to the rest of the exhaust system.

[AJ]

where and from who can you get the custom piping that is needed if you go with a custom setup from daperformance?

[daperformance]

Wow, everyone beat me to answering! lol
but yes, the timer lets your engine idle for 1min up to ?
boost controller allows you to change your boost from 3-4 psi and up. Most will not let you go below 3-4 psi.
Revhard makes manifold to fit T3 housings and up. however, we make an adapter flange to fit the T25 also. Its just a plate we customized. T25s spool up faster. Many people preffer them for those only looking to get around 220hp. &nbsp;
Anythony is right about part interchanging. It is the most cost effective way to upgrade.
All our downpipes are small also to give those an option to use a cat or not.
Takumi- We still get around 30 mpgs in regular driving. Of course, getting on the gas alot decreases the mpg, but it does that with or withut turbo. Daily driving with the turbo kit is really no different than without. You dont really know its there until you give it gas, hear the BOV, and in fifth on the interstate will feel like you are in 3rd with the power it delivers. For us to install the turbo kit is $450 in labor + extra parts like the piping and exhaust not including the IC &nbsp;for just the turbo kit or $480 labor inclues the cost of installing the intercooler and IC piping as well as the turbo kit. &nbsp;Email me if you want us ti install one.

[AJ]

your in tennesee!.. damnit... i'm in Ohio.. that won't work to well...

[daperformance]

We have had one guy come down form Ohio last week. Its not too far to come to get something done right for the money. :)

[ice240sx]

this is forwarded from 9591 on FA's forum:

I keep getting kicked off the register page at Zilvia.net, so would somebody that is already registered (I know there're some of you here) tell those poor people in the recent Turbo thread (in the Tech Talk forum), that are real impressed by daperformance's &quot;beginner&quot; kits, that they seem to be Way Over-Priced. You can use these facts:
1) RevHard manifold can be purchased directly from RevHard http://www.revhard.com for $450.
2) *New* T04E turbo can be purchased from Performance Techniques http://www.turbonetics.com for $750.
3) The hardest part of modding the oilpan is in removing/reinstalling it, which you'll have to do, anyway, with the one they provide.
4) That's $1200; $800 less than what they want for the same thing, unless they include a downpipe (they're not too clear on that), but even then it's too much.
Used turbo prices are harder to pin down, but let's say $400. Plus $450 for the manifold, and that's still $425 less than their price. somebody please enlighten those folks at Zilvia before they waste their money.

Sorry for the weird post. For those that are curious about who I'm talking about: http://dave_240sx.tripod.com/240sxdaperformance/id6.html

[240racer]

One thing you guys have to remember is that when a company puts together a kit they have to make some money or they wouldn't have time to do that. &nbsp;What you are paying for is their time, knowledge and support. &nbsp;This isn't a large volume market so Dave is probably buying the parts for the same prices we can get them for. &nbsp;However, when you buy them from him, then he can help you with things later on. &nbsp;If you want to buy them yourself and save some cash now, that's fine, but you better not expect to get any help from him or anyone else without paying them for their time. &nbsp;Most shops charge $50/hr or more so expect to pay dave that much for his time looking at your car or fixing it when you screw up. &nbsp;Now if he charge a couple hundred more for the kit, that's about 4hrs of his time, which I'm sure you will find to be benificial. &nbsp;Personally I plan to peice together my kit, but I'm definatly not going to go whinning to Dave with every problem I have, unless I want to pay him. &nbsp;So go cheap if you want, but only if you know your stuff, cause otherwise it's only going to cost more in the long run.

Adam

[Takumi]

Personally, it just looks like a similar deal to the other aftermarket turbo kits like F-Max, Nsport, XS Engineering, and GReddy. Except you have much more of a choice of which components you want instead of having them chosen for you. It seems like the people who don't have the resources or the time to dig around info and prices to piece together their own turbo kit would say this guy's services are a rip off. People (like me) who hasn't quite learned his/her way around their own engine bays or learned enough about what goes into a good turbo kit, we don't mind paying the extra money for someone to do it for us. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

Yes, some of us are lazy.

Out of curiosity, what REALLY IS needed for a basic turbo kit that'll run with no problems? I just know I'd need the turbo (duh), manifold (do you guys do any kind of high temp. coating? hate for that thing to crack), blow off valve (do brands matter? Which one's reliable?), wastegate (how much are those?), various proper fluid lines (not really sure what they are), intercooler (I dunno what size would work well with a small turbo like the T25), new injectors (whether it be bored out factory units or aftermarket ones, not sure what's the minimum size to use for a turbo application), retuned ECU (Jim Wolf), or some fuel management unit, and a boost gauge (at least).

Sorry Dave, I live all the way in California, that'd be quite a drive to get a turbo kit set up. However, I do have friends who own shops to do the work. One of them mostly works on hybrid and force inducted Hondas, but I'm sure Nissan cars wouldn't be too much of a problem. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

(Edited by Takumi at 1:41 pm on Feb. 2, 2002)

[daperformance]

ice? where did you get those figures? I wish i could get stuff that cheap. It funny how some people have nothing better to do but trash a new comapny. i dont see anyone trashing Nsport, XSEngineeering or anyother company. If anyone is over charging, its those companies, not me. &nbsp;Also, My beginner kits are the only ones coming with used turbos. I have new turbo kits also. It does tke time to peice these kits together and make instructions for others. Really, i am not making hardly anything on them.
A few things that Ice or whoever originally said that stuff
left out was oil lins and cooling and other parts crucial for this upgrade. Sure people can get a kit together themselves, but do they really know turbo systems to get one built right? I am not going to argue about this. I was invited to this site to reply. I have replied. i have several very satisfied customers that would beg to differ with those who arent customers.
You arent suppossed to bring a reply like that to a forrum. &nbsp;I could say that Injen sucks. Would that change peoples mind about buying from them? I doubt it. That reply was a waste of valuable reading time.

[daperformance]

also, i beleive you got my pricing wrong. You might want to go back and check our prices again. I dont know where yo got that other price.

[ice240sx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from daperformance on 10:15 am on Feb. 2, 2002
ice? where did you get those figures? ... That reply was a waste of valuable reading time.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

i'm sorry you felt that way, but please get your facts straight, i olny posted this as a favor to somone who could not log on. the original thread is here <a href="http://forums.freshalloy.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=009463

in" target="_blank">http://forums.freshalloy.com/cgi-bin....63

in</a> all honestly however (not a bash, just constuctive criticism) if you plan on selling from your site i would suggest using clearer pics, the burry ones will turn people away real fast. people want to be able to see what they're buying.

edit: forgot the link

(Edited by ice240sx at 10:53 am on Feb. 2, 2002)

[daperformance]

Oh ok, i saw what it was. I can see why the guy was so upset. An employee just called me and said he saw that post over at fresh alloy forums. The guy that posted that has an XS engineering kit and probably paid over $3000 for it. A freind here in our local 240 club has the XS engineering kit also and says he paid too much for what he got. I think he got a good kit for what he got. Xs engineering makes good kits anyways. &nbsp;At first, i just thought it was another competitor bashing us. Now i see its soeone who has a competitors kit more or less saying he has better. Anyway, no big deal. Thats normal. Everyone should be proud of what they have. They just shouldnt say they have better unless they have bought both kits and tried them both.

[9591]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from daperformance on 4:44 pm on Feb. 2, 2002
Oh ok, i saw what it was. I can see why the guy was so upset.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

No, apparently you can't.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">An employee just called me and said he saw that post over at fresh alloy forums. The guy that posted that has an XS engineering kit and probably paid over $3000 for it.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

$3K exactly (including IC), so what?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> A freind here in our local 240 club has the XS engineering kit also and says he paid too much for what he got. I think he got a good kit for what he got.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

And you think this because... why? Did you buy and install the kit? Or are you relying on second-hand information? You don't know *what* I got, do you?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Xs engineering makes good kits anyways. At first, i just thought it was another competitor bashing us. Now i see its soeone who has a competitors kit more or less saying he has better.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

eh Huh? When, where, or how did I ever say anything about better? I didn't ever mention any kit companies, or even kits, other than yours, which ISN'T A KIT. You sell a few components, which anybody can easily assemble on their own, and charge a hefty premium for the convenience of getting it all in one place. That's fine. You make a point on your website that you try to save people money by not selling them stuff they might not need or want. That's admirable. I'm also trying to save people money by showing them where they can buy the same stuff for less. The difference, in my case, is that I don't have your profit motive. I also don't lie or mislead about things like, oh, I dunno, ... manifold prices?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Anyway, no big deal. Thats normal. Everyone should be proud of what they have. They just shouldnt say they have better unless they have bought both kits and tried them both.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Whoops, here we go again, I never said what I have is better than something else. Go back through FA's archives, I never even said that what I had was good. I've always been fully aware that I only had experience with one kit, and so was not qualified to compare &quot;goodness&quot;. But what's this got to do with your &quot;kit&quot;, anyway? A manifold, turbo, and a coupla oil lines don't make a kit. It's a starting point, for sure, and I wasn't trying to denigrate your effort, but just point out that you charge Way Too Much.

Edit: I made a big mess with the formatting

(Edited by 9591 at 7:41 pm on Feb. 2, 2002)

[9591]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from daperformance on 3:15 pm on Feb. 2, 2002
ice? where did you get those figures? I wish i could get stuff that cheap.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

That was me, not ice240sx. I got those figures from the websites of RevHard and Performance Techniques, both of which I provided links for. Yes, you too can get stuff &quot;that cheap&quot;.

[daperformance]

Look , I said i am not argueing about it. There again, there is alot more to a turbo kit than what you think there is. Why are you trying to bash this company and my employees?
Yes, what we have is a turbo kit. &nbsp;All you keep reffereing to is the used turbo kit. &nbsp;You have also avoided my other questions.
Reguardless of what you are saying, you look like you are just upset that you paid so much and that you think yours is better. I'll prove it. &nbsp;Look at your arguement. &nbsp;&quot;What you have isnt kits&quot;. &nbsp;Who are you to know what we have and what our kits are made of? Have you ever seen them? Its more than just a manifold and a turbo and oil pan. We do some of our own fabrication. If you are going to argue that we dont have kits, then you might need to take another look at yours. There are no differences! Xs Engineering sent you some piping and chose a BOV for you and a turbo for you. You didnt get to chose that. Ok, i can throw all that in and not let anyone chose also. Either way, it is still a kit. The base kit is from my company, the rest is something our customers have bought and gotten to chose from which they all love that idea. &nbsp;You dont really think XS Engineering really made anything for what you have do you? They peiced a kit together themselves and sold them as a unit (kit). Its like this. Injen intakes again for instance. Do you think they really made the pipe? No, they just cut it and put there name on it and sold it with some coupler hoses and hose clamps. Does that not make it an intake kit? Really, think about it. Can all of us not od that ourselves? XS went out and bought there turbos form Turbonetics and manifolds from another company, piping from a machine shop, oil lines from another shop, intercoolers form another, etc etc etc. They didnt make anything. They just peiced it together and sold it as a whole, as a kit. &nbsp;How is that any different than what i am doing? and dont keep reffering to my used urbo kits. So you are saying that Xs engineering can peice a kit together also and its ok for them to charge over $3000 for it? yet i cant charge my price which is incredably lower and it be considered a kit? Sure everyone can peice together a kit, but it can be a struggle at times and a hassle. Not to mention, not everyone is a rocket scientist about turbo kits, in other words, not everyone knows what is needed. Dont be a hyppocrite. You bought an XS kit. You are trying to say that everyone can peice a kit together cheaper than me. Maybe it could be true, maybe not. (not everyone has the rescources). &nbsp;And then you have already spent the money on someone elses peiced together kit. Thats being a hypocrite. &nbsp;Instead of downing yourself or any other company, you would rather down mine. And i dont appreciate it. &nbsp;You have no knowledge of my company nor my employees. We are no different than any other company that peices kits together, other than i offer alot more options and am way below there cost. &nbsp;I have the people in mind. We are just trying to keep cost down. I could throw a whole kit together just like other companies without customers choices, and charge for it and still be cheaper than the other guys. But what if people want to chose something cheaper like in BOV etc or already have some parts off of another car or etc. They would be wasting money on something they didnt need. Thats another reason why we give people the choice to get what they want. Not everyone can afford a complete kit. Not everyone has that much money. &nbsp;When i was a teenager and even into my early 20s, I would have loved to have seen a company like this. I would have jumped on it right a way. Cant beat it. I didnt know enough about turbos and etc back then to even try to peice something together. I would have paid that much for an incomplete kit and put the little stuff together myself. I have had more customers than you could even think of who would take the time to argue with you about it. &nbsp;I have a friend at Unstable that would agree with me. &nbsp;Can you really show me a real reason why my kits arent turbo kits? A real reason excluding the used turbo kits. Prices are irrelevant to this discussion also. You have no leg to stand on about a price arguement. &nbsp;I can admit it if i am wrong, if you can honestly show me where this kit i peice together is not a kit.

[daperformance]

Forgot to add that Revhard no longer sells manifolds to the public. They used to sell the manifolds to the public for $450 but now, you have to go through someone else to get them and pay more. Update your opinions 9591. Also, i dont deal with Performance Techniques. They just get there stuff from another comapny and mark it up also. &nbsp;Hmm, i bet what they have arent real kits or anything either.

[9591]

Wow.

A few observations:

That was a really long post;

If you're &quot;not arguing about it&quot;, then why are you arguing?;

You've said that XS makes a good kit, and you know that I own one, so why do you say there's a lot more to a kit than I think there is?;

I think I was only &quot;bashing&quot; your prices, not your company or your employees;

I based my price comparison on your new-turbo kit, only mentioning your used-turbo kit as an afterthought;

If I've &quot;avoided&quot; any of your questions, please repeat them, as I must've missed 'em (sorry 'bout that);

The &quot;kits&quot; I've been referring to are your &quot;beginner kits&quot;, with either new or used turbos, which are what were sparking the interest of those in this forum. And no, I still don't consider them &quot;kits&quot;. Perhaps you now offer a complete kit, since your website seems to be changing by the hour (what happened to &quot;most turbos include a downpipe&quot;, btw?);

The difference between what F-Max, nsport, &amp; XS eng are doing and what you are doing with your Beginner Kit (you *do* know this is what we've been discussing here, don't you?), is all that stuff that you mention like IC piping, BOV, wastegate, stuffs, and more stuffs.

That last paragraph was the first time I've compared your offering with any other kit, or anything else for that matter. All I commented on was the price, and then when things got testy, my opinion that your kit (again, &quot;Beginner Kit&quot;) was not a real turbo kit.

I really had no intention of &quot;downing&quot; either you or your company; I was just pointing out that your prices weren't as good as everybody seemed to be thinking.

Your post was too long and repetitive, I'm not going to respond to any more of it. If there's something there that you'd really like my response to, go ahead and fire it on up again.

Oh, and about that &quot;friend at Unstable&quot; comment, who gives a squat? Jason seems cool, judging from FA, but what's that got to do, got to do with it?

[9591]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from daperformance on 8:35 pm on Feb. 2, 2002
Forgot to add that Revhard no longer sells manifolds to the public. They used to sell the manifolds to the public for $450 but now, you have to go through someone else to get them and pay more. Update your opinions 9591. Also, i dont deal with Performance Techniques. They just get there stuff from another comapny and mark it up also. Hmm, i bet what they have arent real kits or anything either.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Upon further review, I concede your point that RevHard no longer sells their manifolds to the public. Also, I agree that Performance Techniques gets their stuff from somebody else, but they still sell it for the price I mentioned. Neither I nor they suggest that what they sell are kits; in fact I merely said that you could buy a turbo from them. I didn't even say that they were the best place, but I *do* think they wouldn't be a bad bet.

[misnomer]

wow, play nice guys. It's not news that you can but components and build your own turbo setup cheaper than buying a kit. Just like it's not news tha building a computer is cheaper than buying one prebuilt. Reason to buy a complete one is because you don't need to hunt and peck for what you might need down the road. Reason to piece together is to get your hands dirty, learn something new, and save a bit of money.

Now, a good, informative thread has turned to bickering. . .

[daperformance]

Well then why didnt you just say that it is of your opinion that you dont think the beginer kits were worth there price, instead of straight out bashing? Everyone is going to have their own opinion.
I wasnt argueing in my last post, but merely trying to explain a point.
&quot;The most used turbos come with downpipes&quot; was removed because all our used turbos are coming with downpipes now. Just adding more to our beginner kits for our customer benefits.

[DSC]

looks like at first glance its possable to get 225 to the wheels for only 1000 plus install. But then you see the &quot;kit&quot; doesn't include everything for 1000 but lets you pick and choose what you want for an aditional price for each peice. Still ends up being a complete kit (used or new) for less than an xs. Comes with a warranty and instructions. Me not knowing much more about turbos than basics on how they work, I'd never peice together my own kit. So this is a good way to get a complete kit for cheaper than the name brand kits while still using name brand parts.

[9591]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from daperformance on 11:15 pm on Feb. 2, 2002
Well then why didnt you just say that it is of your opinion that you dont think the beginer kits were worth there price, instead of straight out bashing?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

WTF? How many posts have I made that didn't harp on the price? What was the sole subject of my first post (the one that was forwarded from FA)? You did a little &quot;background research&quot; on me, found that I have an XS kit, and then proceeded to go crazy with it, making me out to be an XS fanatic. More power to ya'.

[Takumi]

Man..before it gets any more pointless and unhelpful, this must be said.

http://a2.cpimg.com/image/3A/AF/8322362-fbee-013B01D2-.jpg

Have a nice day. Thank you for hijacking the thread.

[9591]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Takumi on 3<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>0 am on Feb. 3, 2002

Have a nice day. Thank you for hijacking the thread.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

&quot;Wow, if this isn't too good to be true...&quot;. That was your statement, and it's what caused me to want to point out that it is, indeed, too good to be true. I'm sorry, in the future I won't interfere as you and dave run around tag-teaming the forums with your sales pitch. G'day.

[daperformance]

Well too good to be true is just your opinion and your opnion only. &nbsp;Everyone has there own opinions and are going to make up there own minds. These forums are here to talk about the good and bad things of the 240sx and ideas on where to get things, not to bash companies. &nbsp;I dont remember saying anything myself about too good to be true other than making a hypothetical and repeating what you said. &nbsp;Anyway, I am over all of this.

[gsrcamel]

takumi, u get 20-22 mpg in your teg??? that sux IMO, I get 28-30 city in my 95' gsr. I think there is something wrong with you teggy?

[AJ]

start a new thread if you want to argue... i'm really looking for informtaion here... (so i dont' want any more rebutles,, no more,, i ment this,, not that... take it somewhere else! pleaaase)

[AJ]

so daperformance, how much can u get the bigginer kit along with all the other necisary parts NEEDED to run the turbo successfully for?.. &nbsp;1000+ &nbsp;intercooler, blowoff valve etc.. could u just give me an average quote for the cost concious?! thanks.. &nbsp;I want to be able to build up my kit slowly with better parts.. i want to start cheap and reliable. &nbsp;thanks again.

[DSC]

Unfortionately I think this thread has been hijacked beyond repair but I'll give it a shot...

How much PSI can a t25 turbo push before it just runs out of air? Can it push this much daily or will it kill the turbo after a while? If running at its max will kill it, what PSI can you run safely on this turbo everyday? To reach 235RWHP (100hp over stock), would you be better off with a t3/t04 or can the t25 push enough to get you there?

[Takumi]

I'd like a turbo kit that spools up fast and something I can use around 5-7 psi daily using stock internals. What would be the ideal set up? Exactly, which parts would I need for it to run anyway? I don't want anything to explode.

(Edited by Takumi at 12:40 pm on Feb. 3, 2002)

[daperformance]

Well, for one, an itercooler is not a requirement for low boost up to 6 lbs. There are many stock turbo cars that didnt come with an intercooler such as the 84-89 300zx tubo. &nbsp;Well starting off cheap would be getting the T25 kit. &nbsp;Its a great starter kit. I would say an approx figure depending on how much your local exhaust shop charge you can do it for about $1200-1300 total without including intercooler and BOV. &nbsp;BOVs are not necessarily required for low boost applications but I recomend them anyway jsut to keep the pressure down in the intake pipe and off the throttle body when you let off the gas. The only other thing you would need to get with this kit to get around 200 hp is the exhaust and intake piping which is what any exhaust shop can do. &nbsp;You must remember to have them keep your Mafs and put it before the turbo with the air filter.
T25 turbos can push 20 - up lbs. Regular daily driving would be a good idea at 14 lbs to make the turbo last and can easily get well over 235 Hp at that psi. In order to run 14 psi, you would need to upgrade your internals for sure ECU, and fuel system. 7-8 psi can easily get you 240 hp and still be able to use your stock fuel and internal systems. The T25 is plenty to work with. Sure a T3/T4 would be better and can get into higher boost, but how many people are going to make a street driven safely machine at that much boost?
Boost controller is a must. &nbsp;You want to be able to turn the boost down for sure on stock internals. How amny of you have been to 240sx.org in the installs section and have seen the SDS turbo setup? They ran 3.5 lbs of boost and reached well over 200 hp with a T3/T4 i beleive. Yep i jsut looked at it. They replaced the fuel system anyway to start with. &nbsp;They didnt have to with just 3.5 psi. They said they dynoed at 284 HP at 7.5 psi with the T3/T4 hybrid. That is alot of Hp for a lightweight 240!
A price for a complete setup. hmm, well it really depends on what you get and where ya get it. I have the following: TurboXs BOVs for $129. Custom Boost controllers w/built in gauge for $40. Boost gauges 20psi for $30. Used Starion intercoolers for $100 (or smaller intercoolers for $40-90). Gauge pods-dual&gt;$35-single&gt;$25. Air filters-$40. Then the exhaust shop can charge $100-200 for piping work. &nbsp;Most also have stainless steal polished for more. then $1000 for the kit. &nbsp;Fuel pumps TT- $140. Fuel injectors 370cc for $400. JWT ECU remapping anywhere from $400-700. Add all that up and that would be a complete kit that you could safely run near 12 lbs of boost on and get well over 325 hp at the wheel. Thats the beginer kit built all up which is not necessary for those looking to get around 200-230hp at the wheels. Subtract the fuel injectors, ecu, fuel pump, intercooler, and BOV-optional boost gauge is not a requirement either but is recomended to know your boost pressure. So for a full complete kit, which i can sell for a little over $2600, which would comewith the fuel system, ecu etc and am still better than other companies that dont include injectors and ECU. &nbsp;At HIGH cost, the basic install and parts shouldnt cost more than $1500.

[AJ]

i'm not sure that there are any shops that can do custom piping like that in cincy.. i know there aren't any close to my house.. maybe FFI in columbus? anyone know.. this is starting to look like in a few months i could come up with this money... i'm going to pick up some hours at work <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> ..

[daperformance]

We are only 3.5 hours away from Cincy. Any exhaust shops ther in Cincy can do custom work. Call them and get prices.

[misnomer]

Custom piping, do you mean for the exhaust or for the air intake system (filter to turbo to IC and onwards)?

[daperformance]

Exhaust shops can do all the intake and exhaust and IC piping. Exhaust shops are really just weld and piping shops. 90% of people and more only need exhaust weldings, so therefore, they are called exhaust shops. We are planning to eventually make our own piping and peice a complete kit together. That will probably be at the earliest in the Spring.

[AceInHole]

Aaargh... I missed out on all the fun...
I'll start with my gripes on this:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from daperformance on 3:17 pm on Feb. 3, 2002Well starting off cheap would be getting the T25 kit. Its a great starter kit. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> A T25 would be straining itself to get 5-7 psi on a KA....
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I would say an approx figure depending on how much your local exhaust shop charge you can do it for about $1200-1300 total without including intercooler and BOV. BOVs are not necessarily required for low boost applications but I recomend them anyway jsut to keep the pressure down in the intake pipe and off the throttle body when you let off the gas.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> A Bosch unit is only $30, so why skimp on it?? &nbsp;It seems like the problem would be more wear/damage to the turbine than anything else.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The only other thing you would need to get with this kit to get around 200 hp is the exhaust and intake piping which is what any exhaust shop can do. You must remember to have them keep your Mafs and put it before the turbo with the air filter. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> I'd expect a bit less than 200rwhp with anything under 7psi... let alone without a BOV or intercooler (since with that small turbo, you're going to be pushing a lot of hot air).
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">T25 turbos can push 20 - up lbs. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> show me an SR that has a T25 pushing anything over 10psi, let alone a KA doing that. &nbsp;
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Regular daily driving would be a good idea at 14 lbs to make the turbo last and can easily get well over 235 Hp at that psi. In order to run 14 psi, you would need to upgrade your internals for sure ECU, and fuel system. 7-8 psi can easily get you 240 hp and still be able to use your stock fuel and internal systems. The T25 is plenty to work with. Sure a T3/T4 would be better and can get into higher boost, but how many people are going to make a street driven safely machine at that much boost?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> This is being said while a T3/4 can barely keep 14.5psi without trailing off??? &nbsp;A T25 will NOT push 20psi, let alone 10, especially on a KA.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Boost controller is a must. You want to be able to turn the boost down for sure on stock internals.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> depending on what kind of boost controller.... &nbsp;why is a boost controller a &quot;must&quot;?? &nbsp;EBC's are used for better wastegate control... the wastegate spring will determine the boost setting for the most part.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How amny of you have been to 240sx.org in the installs section and have seen the SDS turbo setup? They ran 3.5 lbs of boost and reached well over 200 hp with a T3/T4 i beleive. Yep i jsut looked at it. They replaced the fuel system anyway to start with. They didnt have to with just 3.5 psi. They said they dynoed at 284 HP at 7.5 psi with the T3/T4 hybrid. That is alot of Hp for a lightweight 240!
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> Those numbers sound like crank figures.... and really high crank figures at that. &nbsp;

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A price for a complete setup. hmm, well it really depends on what you get and where ya get it. I have the following: TurboXs BOVs for $129. Custom Boost controllers w/built in gauge for $40. Boost gauges 20psi for $30. Used Starion intercoolers for $100 (or smaller intercoolers for $40-90). Gauge pods-dual&gt;$35-single&gt;$25. Air filters-$40. Then the exhaust shop can charge $100-200 for piping work. Most also have stainless steal polished for more. then $1000 for the kit. Fuel pumps TT- $140. Fuel injectors 370cc for $400. JWT ECU remapping anywhere from $400-700. Add all that up and that would be a complete kit that you could safely run near 12 lbs of boost on and get well over 325 hp at the wheel. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> &nbsp;all fine and dandy.... but for over 7 psi... wouldn't you want larger injectors... maybe a Cobra MAF?? Otherwise you're looking at raising fuel pressure a lot... &nbsp;


If you can do your own work and do the research.... a person could easily peice together a low boost kit for around $2000. &nbsp;At the very minimum, using used parts... it could be done for around $1000 (including a small SMIC, BOV, and A/F, Fuel Press, and Boost gauges).

['91 D21 beater]

yup, yup, it's all in theory...

DAperformance, it's been proven that KA24DE does not need to be rebuilt to run daily at 14psi... Stock internals are sufficiently fine... Definetly good for 318rwhp with more margin to go... and this is with dyno charts to back up the claim, vs &quot;my dog ate my homework&quot; excuse.

[daperformance]

i agree. there are several theories on the KA motors, and also what to do, how to do it and where to get it from. &nbsp;Running low boost will keep you in the safe house though.

[AJ]

i know the t25 came stock on the 2G DSM's. &nbsp;Will the t3/4 push more air at the same psi?.. i'm not sure i follow. &nbsp;If i want to only run 7-8psi a t25 will work fine correct?

[daperformance]

T25 is great for 7-8 psi and even up to 14 psi. T25 will not take anytime to get there either. T25s spool up really quick. T3/4 doesnt spool as fast but has more velocity. Neither will push more air than at what you set either the boost controller or waste gate. &nbsp;Boost controllers are a must for people who do not understand waste gates. Plus, many waste gates are harder to get to, because they are attached to the turbo. Boost controllers can be put anywhere even at the dash.

[AJ]

so daperformance, u say u are only 3.5 hours out of cincy? that is awesome, are there places down by you that can do all the piping required for the turbo setup? &nbsp;Chances r i can make the money in 3 months.. (convincing my dad is the hard part <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>)

[daperformance]

anywhere from 3.5 to 4 hours away. We are a half an hour from the TN/KY line. You would just have to go through one state-KY.

[AJ]

what must be done with the ecu with a turbo runnign under 7psi? &nbsp;

[misnomer]

The engine will be running way more air than the ECU is used to, running lean. You'd need either an ECU reprograming to supply more fuel or separate fuel management. Running low low boost, you should be OK, but the ECU is expecting the engine to pull in x amount of air at a particular rpm, forced induction changes that, air is being pushed in, rather than pulled.

[AJ]

how much are stand alone fuel systems? and do ecu upgrades work for any turbo setup.. or only for a specific boost... because i'd liek to run 5psi now.. but would want the option of runnign more later..

[Drift Style S14]

Ok lets say i wanted to get at least 250hp and be able to eventually move up to 350 on the same turbo. which turbo should i get and what would i need for the setup?

[AJ]

if those numbers are at the fly... then a t3/4 should make it there.. &nbsp;That would be at the top end of it's capacity however.

[DSC]

Weren't west and PSI both using t3/t04's to push their car well past 300hp? I thought PSI had ~350whp with his t3/t4.

[daperformance]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from misnomer on 11:43 pm on Feb. 5, 2002
The engine will be running way more air than the ECU is used to, running lean. You'd need either an ECU reprograming to supply more fuel or separate fuel management. Running low low boost, you should be OK, but the ECU is expecting the engine to pull in x amount of air at a particular rpm, forced induction changes that, air is being pushed in, rather than pulled.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

As long as the Mafs is located before the turbo, you will not have to replace the ecu or upgrade for sometime.
AJ-fuel systems are on average for all about $600 max.
Drift-style- A t3/T4 has more than a sufficient amount of boost to push you to near 400 hp and then some. Topping out a T3/T4 isnt very easy. They go along way.

[240booster]

Hey daperformance, I am amazed that i actually found someone close to me who knows alot about KA-t I'm in alabama and there's always unstable-hybrids but they r $$$ exspensive. I'm planning on goin KA-T this summer, where exactly in Tennessee r u?? I need to get in touch with u cause i like ur little plan u got goin. I was goin to build my own turbo set up and try to assemble it myself and i pretty much know what im doing but i can't do the tubing and stuff like that plus, Im not absolutely positive on all the specs of everything that im looking for yet. Neway, I guess i just need to get in touch with u a and c what's goin on. &nbsp;

['91 D21 beater]

I'm gonna call BS on this one. Some sort of fuel management is neede for anything over 4psi of boost. Stock injectors can only realistically handle 5psi.

A RRFPR would be needed or a tuned ecu with larger injectors, mafs.

The BS is on your statement that no ecu tuning needed if the MAFS is kept in the same location... Stock MAFS can only handle so much flow before being maxed. It will need to be changed.

Also, Dennis in Atlanta has his cobra mafs moved aft of the intercooler between the i/c outlet and the throttle body. No special tuning required for the blow through setup, plus he now can run his bov back to atmosphere without operability issues.

What you said pertains to low boost, 7psi-ish. The experience from us folks that are running 14psi on stock internal KA's are quite different. My setup has been on for 2+ years now...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from daperformance on 10:21 am on Feb. 6, 2002
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As long as the Mafs is located before the turbo, you will not have to replace the ecu or upgrade for sometime.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

[daperformance]

What ever you say. I guess thats why you were deleted.
Stock Ka mafs are fine. I never said anything about not ever having to replace them. You dont have to replace them for up to 8-10 psi not 4! I know what Dennis has. I saw it up close myself when he came up here. &nbsp;Dennis runs more than 8 psi, at least whe we were at the drag strip up here. Dennis has lots more upgrades and a motor from a 97 in his s13. He has a really good setup.
14psi on stock internals will not make the motor last for long. Good luck.
I am not going to down unstable-hybrids. They do excellent work. However, i amnot going to promote them, because i have my own business to run.
240booster, just email me. We are located in Knoxville, Tn.

[AceInHole]

#1 &nbsp;A T25 will not push a reliable 7-8 psi on a KA. &nbsp;Go look at the T25's flow map, it just doesn't push enough air, plain and simple.

#2 &nbsp;If you're going over 7-8 psi on a KA, you WILL need to upgrade the MAF of raise fuel pressure. &nbsp;Raising fuel pressure that much will seriously affect the injectors capability to atomize fuel.

#3 &nbsp;It doesn't matter what side of the compressor the MAF is on, since the same amount of air is flowing through both sides (the same amount of air has to be drawn in to be blown out). &nbsp;The only problem with having the MAF on the compressed side of the intake is its ability to correctly measure air flowing, since (IIRC) the piping on the compressed side doesn't always allow for air to flow as smoothly as the MAF would like.

#4 Doesn't Dennis (the guy using the MAF on the compressed side [blow-through setup??]) use an aftermarket Cobra MAF as the normal Cobra MAF wouldn't read properly??

#5 &nbsp;Stock injectors can barely handle over 4 psi without any modification to the fuel system, which is what I was told.

#6 &nbsp;D21 beater : I thought your setup had a T3/4 on it... and it looked like it was pretty much maxing out at 320 rwhp....

[AJ]

ace, u seem to know ur stuff, where do you find out about all this? got any books i should read?.. and also, if i want to run 5psi with stock injectors.. do i need to upgrade ecu in order not to run lean.. i don't want to hurt my engine...

[saga240]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from AJ on 4:33 pm on Feb. 6, 2002
ace, u seem to know ur stuff, where do you find out about all this? got any books i should read?.. and also, if i want to run 5psi with stock injectors.. do i need to upgrade ecu in order not to run lean.. i don't want to hurt my engine...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

hrmm &nbsp;maximum boost by corky bell.. &nbsp;thats the turbo bible.. &nbsp;i dont think you need to upgrade the ecu if youre only running 5 psi.. &nbsp;i think a fpr will do.. &nbsp;but once you start boosting more.. id recommend higher flow injectors and ecu reprogram..

[daperformance]

We are not having any problems running 8 psi with stock injectors and stock Ecu with a T25 turbo on one of our customers cars. Fuel starts to fall off from there though. &nbsp;Stock injectors can hold more than 4 psi easily.

The T25 actually can push 14 psi out very well &nbsp;on the Ka motor. We have tried that already. &nbsp;At 14 psi it begins to fall.

AJ- I would recomend upgrading if you plan to run more than 7-8 psi. An ecu upgrade isnt necessary to run 7-8 psi.

Running the Mafs before the compressor side is great for cars running no more than 8-9 psi. It doesnt have a problem reading correctly there.

I dont know if Dennis' car has an aftermarket cobra MAfs, i didnt notice. I dont think its aftermarket though. It seems he told me that it was stock. I am not sure.

[Drift Style S14]

well lets just say the t25 can handle 14 pounds of boost what kind of hp figures would we be looking at?

['91 D21 beater]

Again, you fail to mention that you are running a higher fuel pressure at a risk of bad fuel atomization. 4 Psi on stock fuel system with stock fuel pressure is the limit... You are making things sound like it's easier... The 4psi limit have been long established by may KA+T pioneers, and as far as I can remember, that was around '95...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from daperformance on 9:47 pm on Feb. 6, 2002
We are not having any problems running 8 psi with stock injectors and stock Ecu with a T25 turbo on one of our customers cars. Fuel starts to fall off from there though. Stock injectors can hold more than 4 psi easily.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

As for UH, I'm not affliated with them. Dennis's isn't running with anything special. He's running what I got. He's ridding my coat tail to get to the power level.

I've been running my car at 11psi + for the past year, and 1.0bar for past several months. My car is used for weekend warrior duties at open track events.

So far, it's #### reliable... It's nice an stuff that you are trying to sell parts for the KA market, but be more humble... You are fairly defensive about it...

My role in the KA world? I'm a nobody. I'm not really deleted, just in stealth mode. I'm the guy on the stock internal power frontier. First to have a documented 300+rwhp KA. Beat Dennis to our common goal.

So before you go on about how this won't work, that's unreliable, go learn up more about what's been done with a KA, and take it easy when folks question your knowledge...

As for running the MAFS, Dennis is now at 13psi with his Gatenalli (yes, aftermarket replacement type MAFS) cobra MAFS.

['91 D21 beater]

Yes, T3/T4. I'm choking on the 0.63 A/R turbine housing at the top end. I'm also using narrower than typical cams for throttle response and fuel economy. A 0.83 A/R housing and a nice set of 256/256 cams will really open up the top end, and I figured about 340rwhp is possible.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from AceInHole on 4:39 pm on Feb. 6, 2002
#6 D21 beater : I thought your setup had a T3/4 on it... and it looked like it was pretty much maxing out at 320 rwhp....
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

[AceInHole]

Yeah.... Maximum Boost is supposed to be the turbo bible, but it's not the end all of everything turbo. &nbsp;Actually, everything I know can be attributed to pestering one FA member named asad (who is actually supposed to be welding my manifold together for me since I'm a lazy bastard and he's a nice guy). &nbsp;

I'd like to know what kind of HP a T25 pushing 14 psi on a KA can get.... &nbsp;AFAIK, the T28 maxes out at around 14 psi, barely pushing enough air in a 2 liter engine.... &nbsp;we're talking about filling an extra .4 liters with a smaller turbine?? &nbsp;Sounds unlikely, and as the common phrase would have it, you're just pushing hot air at that point. &nbsp;

D21 beater: &nbsp;you've got a '91 intake cam for better throttle response right?? &nbsp;That's better than the stock 232.... so how is that narrower than typical?? &nbsp;I remember reading your impressions on the power dropping off after peak boost... and you even run an Apexi GT spec exhaust (4&quot; right?). &nbsp;I'd imagine a T25... let alont a stock T25, would choke waaay before that... no matter how well it's controlled with a boost controller or how big the exhaust is.

AJ: 5psi with an FMU should be relatively safe. &nbsp;It's been said you can go up to 7 psi, but as stated before, the injectors won't be able to atomize the fuel efficiently at that point. &nbsp;Right now, the setup I'm building will use an 8:1 rising rate fuel pressure regulator, and a T3 turbine (I have a TD06 off of a Volvo but I might just get a new turbine... the one I have now needs to be rebuilt). &nbsp;I'm attempting to build the whole thing with a budget of $1000k, which is the main reason the project has taken so long so far.... &nbsp;in the future, I'll most likely follow D21 beater's (Fmax's) setup with a JWT ECU, 50lb injectors and Cobra MAF.

[sykikchimp]

ok, question
#1 &nbsp;I know what an FPR does, but no idea how it is implemented. &nbsp;Can someone please explain?

#2 &nbsp; If you put the maf before the turbine, do you have to route the BOV back in front of the maf?

#3 &nbsp;Would a nice big (say skyline) FMIC make it easier to run a blow-thru setup? or harder?

#4 &nbsp;What is the most common way to set up the MAF?

Question for Daperformance:

Can you please list EXACTLY what one would recieve when purchasing your kit, so that we may know what your kit is all about? &nbsp;Maybe more pics of all the stuff included. &nbsp;Your site is a little lacking in viual aids, and information about what exactly the kit contains.
I ask b/c I'm confused. &nbsp;First I thought it was just Turbo/oil pan/and manifold. &nbsp; Now Down pipe.. &nbsp;possibly oil lines? &nbsp; &nbsp;does it include fittings? clips, gaskets, etc.. that are required to install the pieces you receive?

Thats why I ask for an exact parts list. &nbsp;So I can look at what else is needed, and make an informed decision about total cost to setup a turbo on my car with your starting materials.

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from sykikchimp on 12:10 am on Feb. 8, 2002ok, question
#1 I know what an FPR does, but no idea how it is implemented. Can someone please explain?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>FPR is placed on the fuel return line to restrict fuel flow and increase pressure based on vacuum/boost in the intake manifold.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">#2 If you put the maf before the turbine, do you have to route the BOV back in front of the maf?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
to help keep from stalling... yes. Otherwise, air would be drawn through the MAF instead of from the BOV's released/ recirculated air.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">#3 Would a nice big (say skyline) FMIC make it easier to run a blow-thru setup? or harder?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> possibly easier since the air will be cooler, but not necessarily. As long as the MAF can get a good reading of the air flow in the intake, it will work. The problem is, not all MAFs can read airflow in two directions, and not all work with a blow through in general (for unknown reasons).

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">#4 What is the most common way to set up the MAF?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> before the turbo.




(Edited by AceInHole at 8:34 am on Feb. 8, 2002)

[daperformance]

We arent pushing to complete our current site, since our own and new website will be up and running within the next couple of weeks. We will have a full catalog with pictures and also our customers wil be able to order direct online. We will have a complete listing of and complete kits available on our new site complete with pics.

[sykikchimp]

cool. thanks

[240turboIam]

Hey Ace, I have read some of your replies. Some of what you said arent exactly facts but more so theories. I am a mechanical engineer for a leading turbo company, one which i will not mention. My job is to test theories on certain cars. I love the 240s since we have found them to be the most powerful bang for the buck. We have been testing turbo Ka motors for well over 5 yrs now as well as other Nissan cars and trucks. I own a turbo KA myself. A T25 is capable of 14 psi. We have tested the T25s on Jspec sr20 motors. If you work through the calculations using x for max air flow paterns versus y for minimum boost in a &quot;chart&quot; of the T25, you will see that it is capable. However, a T25 is not capable of running much more. 14 PSI is probably the most a stock trim T25 will flow. We have run test on these figures and researched the information for ourselves. We have gotten nearly 300hp from a T25 on a KA motor(with a good match of fuel, ecu,and intercooling systems).

Deleted: If you are choking at that psi on your T3/T4, it wouldnt be because your turbo is maxing out. I dont know the system you are using so I cant give you an exact answer on what it would be. You might be getting more fuel than what you need. If you dont change your ECU to each time you change something else on your motor, your ecu might be sending the wrong information therfore not operating properly causing the problems you might be having. Its just a possibility, but i havent seen your car in operation nor what you have.



(Edited by 240turboIam at 4:14 am on Feb. 9, 2002)

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from 240turboIam on 3:13 pm on Feb. 8, 2002
Hey Ace, I have read some of your replies. Some of what you said arent exactly facts but more so theories. I am a mechanical engineer for a leading turbo company, one which i will not mention. My job is to test theories on certain cars. I love the 240s since we have found them to be the most powerful bang for the buck. We have been testing turbo Ka motors for well over 5 yrs now as well as other Nissan cars and trucks. I own a turbo KA myself. A T25 is capable of 14 psi. We have tested the T25s on Jspec sr20 motors. If you work through the calculations using x for max air flow paterns versus y for minimum boost in a &quot;chart&quot; of the T25, you will see that it is capable. However, a T25 is not capable of running much more. 14 PSI is probably the most a stock trim T25 will flow. We have run test on these figures and researched the information for ourselves. We have gotten nearly 300hp from a T25 on a KA motor(with a good match of fuel, ecu,and intercooling systems).

Deleted: If you are choking at that psi on your T3/T4, it wouldnt be because your turbo is maxing out. I dont know the system you are using so I cant give you an exact answer on what it would be. You might be getting more fuel than what you need. If you dont change your ECU to each time you change something else on your motor, your ecu might be sending the wrong information therfore not operating properly causing the problems you might be having. Its just a possibility, but i havent seen your car in operation nor what you have.

Good luck Da Performance on your new business. Hope things go well for you. Your business looks like it should do very well. If I could start a business, I would go about it the same way. God Bless.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

You just lost all respect/credibility in my eye's <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'>

[AJ]

why?

[sykikchimp]

lol.. &nbsp;way to be blunt about it. &nbsp;I was trying to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but ####.. &nbsp;

[AJ]

haha i was thinkin the same <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>..

[240turboIam]

why lose respect for me? i was just throwing my 2 scents in.

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from 240turboIam on 10:11 pm on Feb. 8, 2002
why lose respect for me? i was just throwing my 2 scents in.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Since you work for a leading turbo company you and daperformance should get together, since your both from the Knoxville area. #### surpised you guys don't know each other http://forums.off-topic.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif What at good way of instilling confidence in a consumer, you should be ashamed!!! &nbsp;Why don't you buy some advertising space and build a reputation instead of making one up.

(Edited by ca18guy at 11:32 pm on Feb. 8, 2002)

[240turboIam]

You caught me. Ya i am with Da performance and all you are suck ass losers who are stupid and have a whore as a mom that i did last night. Dont buy from us cuz we have crap. Go &nbsp;somewhere else for real deals on stuff. We dont know anything here and are so inaccurate. We are too good to be true.




(Edited by 240turboIam at 4:11 am on Feb. 9, 2002)

[Takumi]

Gee, so much for customer service, huh? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

There COULD have been SOMEONE who was willing to purchase a kit from DA Performance on this board, you'll never know. However, with that kind of attitude, they'll think otherwise, nice going. Especially when one of your first posts suggested that we're all idiots or something when it comes to turbos. Then you just posted that last statement. Tsk, tsk. ENJOY YOUR FAILING BUSINESS, ASSCAKE! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

[AJ]

i was allready saving up... ####.. guess i'll have to build my own now.

['91 D21 beater]

Wow, Mechanical engineer for a leading turbo company.... Geez, I also a mechanical engineer that works for a company that owns the leading turbo company... Last time I checked, the R&amp;D folks are in California, and someone mentioned you are from TN... What gives?

Anyway, I'm a mechanical engineer that gets to play with bigger turbos, namely turbofan engines. 8,000lb thrust class. Too bad those are too big to fit my car...

Oh yeah, who's the WE that finds 240sx...? DAPerformance?

Sure, T25 sized turbo is capable of 14psi, but way out of it's effeciency range. If you worked for a major turbo firm, you would know that, and common convention is to pick a turbo that would live in it's operating effeciency zone. And on that note, 7psi for a T25 is much more appropriate. Great spooling for a flat powerband.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from 240turboIam on 3:13 pm on Feb. 8, 2002
I am a mechanical engineer for a leading turbo company, one which i will not mention. My job is to test theories on certain cars. I love the 240s since we have found them to be the most powerful bang for the buck. We have been testing turbo Ka motors for well over 5 yrs now as well as other Nissan cars and trucks. I own a turbo KA myself. A T25 is capable of 14 psi. We have tested the T25s on Jspec sr20 motors. If you work through the calculations using x for max air flow paterns versus y for minimum boost in a &quot;chart&quot; of the T25, you will see that it is capable. However, a T25 is not capable of running much more. 14 PSI is probably the most a stock trim T25 will flow. We have run test on these figures and researched the information for ourselves. We have gotten nearly 300hp from a T25 on a KA motor(with a good match of fuel, ecu,and intercooling systems).

Deleted: If you are choking at that psi on your T3/T4, it wouldnt be because your turbo is maxing out. I dont know the system you are using so I cant give you an exact answer on what it would be. You might be getting more fuel than what you need. If you dont change your ECU to each time you change something else on your motor, your ecu might be sending the wrong information therfore not operating properly causing the problems you might be having. Its just a possibility, but i havent seen your car in operation nor what you have.

(Edited by 240turboIam at 4:14 am on Feb. 9, 2002)
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Well, I've gotten 365 crank hp on my car... Why I say choking? SR20 folks are choking on a 0.62 A/R housing T3/T4, and I have 0.4L displacement advantage... Also, car spools too soon. My power band is right in the middle. Peak torque of 329ft-lb at 4,300rpm. Would like to shift it to 5,000rpm or reconfigure it such that the torque curve won't fall off that fast.

As for ecu tuning... I would highly doubt you... Mass air based engine tuning system can account for changes in cams, inlet piping, etc., much more than a speed density system. From what you are describing, it seems like you only know about speed density system, and not about the Mass air based system... Shame on you.... Trying to pass of as a Nissan tuning expert... No turbos for you!!!

As long as the MAFS sensor is within operation range, MAFS based system or more so, Nissan's 16 bit system is more than capable and flexable to handle the changes.

['91 D21 beater]

'91 exhaust cam repinned as intake cam. It's a 248 duration cam. Exhaust cam is still the oem 232 duration cam.

The narrow 232 exhaust cam keeps the exhaust gas in the cylinder longer, extracting more work out of them. The wider intake cam is used to allow more time for the turbo to cram more charge air into the system.

Great for fuel economy, and midrange throttle reponse. Not ideal for top end power. I've gone with the 248 intake and 248 exhaust cam as well. Fuel economy went down, midrange throttle response not as sharp, but top end definetly shined. Even though it felt better, power up top is still the same with hp lost in the midrange, thus went back to the 248/232 setup.

Next step is to change the turbin A/R housing since I can't get more power with the larger cam setup.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from AceInHole on 8:10 pm on Feb. 7, 2002
D21 beater: you've got a '91 intake cam for better throttle response right?? That's better than the stock 232.... so how is that narrower than typical?? I remember reading your impressions on the power dropping off after peak boost... and you even run an Apexi GT spec exhaust (4&quot; right?). I'd imagine a T25... let alont a stock T25, would choke waaay before that... no matter how well it's controlled with a boost controller or how big the exhaust is.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

It is apparent that people (competitiors?) are still out there trying to bash us. That was a definate planned out way to bash us. We are in no way related to 240turboiam.
We really dont appreciate people claiming to be us or saying they are working with us. I am the only one in Da Preformance that post on this forum.
People, please dont beleive that i would let someone like that work for us. &nbsp;Apparently, their scheme/plot is worked for a couple of you.
240turboiam, are you happy now? Did you accomplish what you wanted to in this? Whoever you are, please stop. I wouldnt do that to anyone and would appreciate it if you didnt to us. &nbsp;
People please feel free to email me apposed to posting &nbsp;in this forum. Thank you. &nbsp;
And to let you know, The only post you would see from us, would be under this name and no other.

[White240sx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from '91 D21 beater on 11:59 am on Feb. 9, 2002
Anyway, I'm a mechanical engineer that gets to play with bigger turbos, namely turbofan engines. 8,000lb thrust class. Too bad those are too big to fit my car...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

That would be a good thing; so when you send those to their mechanical graves no other road going motorists will be injured.;):biggrin:

[AJ]

ahh good to know.. i will now start saving more money.. umm turbo <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

also, ace, how are you building a turbo system for under a 1000.. i would be happy to get one running for under 1500... are you getting ur manifolds for free or what? &nbsp;can i get them for cheap from you?. hehe,, just let me know how ur doing it! i want a turbo too!

[DSC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from ca18guy on 11:28 pm on Feb. 8, 2002
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from 240turboIam on 10:11 pm on Feb. 8, 2002
why lose respect for me? i was just throwing my 2 scents in.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Since you work for a leading turbo company you and daperformance should get together, since your both from the Knoxville area. #### surpised you guys don't know each other http://forums.off-topic.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif What at good way of instilling confidence in a consumer, you should be ashamed!!! Why don't you buy some advertising space and build a reputation instead of making one up.

(Edited by ca18guy at 11:32 pm on Feb. 8, 2002)
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>ca18guy, you should probably check the IP before saying something like that.

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ca18guy, you should probably check the IP before saying something like that.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

:confused: How do you think I found out there both from Knoxville or that they have the same ISP! &nbsp;It's a shame cause I seen there site there prices look good, if there credible then it should'nt take long to get a good reputation. I just saw on another board that they seem to be doing this too. daperformance, please don't debate on the forums let your buisness speak for it's self!

(Edited by ca18guy at 4:44 pm on Feb. 9, 2002)

[DSC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from ca18guy on 4:32 pm on Feb. 9, 2002
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ca18guy, you should probably check the IP before saying something like that.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

:confused: How do you think I found out there both from Knoxville or that they have the same ISP! It's a shame cause I seen there site there prices look good, if there credible then it should'nt take long to get a good reputation. I just saw on another board that they seem to be doing this too. daperformance, please don't debate on the forums let your buisness speak for it's self!

(Edited by ca18guy at 4:44 pm on Feb. 9, 2002)
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>Oh, my bad <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('> I just figured it was in the other guys profile when he first posted cauz the other guys were saying they were suspicious too. sorry about that...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from ca18guy on 6:32 pm on Feb. 9, 2002
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

:confused: How do you think I found out there both from Knoxville or that they have the same ISP! It's a shame cause I seen there site there prices look good, if there credible then it should'nt take long to get a good reputation. I just saw on another board that they seem to be doing this too. daperformance, please don't debate on the forums let your buisness speak for it's self!

</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I am assuming you didnt read my last post? We dont know this guy. &nbsp;Also, there are competitors that bash us on every board because they would like to see us go out of business. We are not going to close up over something someone tries to do to us. our prices are low and will always be low.
We dont try to debate on the forums. We just like to try to answer questions and be here for help etc. If we arent invited then we wont post. &nbsp;However, we were invited by a moderator in this forum. &nbsp;

[sykikchimp]

I am also interested in your kit, and wanted you to post here. &nbsp;I figured it would be good for the whole of the forum. &nbsp;Please let us know when the new site is up with all the information we will need to make decisions. &nbsp;Needless to say, your current site is VERY inadequate for the products you are supplying

[sykikchimp]

Who is &quot;deleted member&quot;?? &nbsp;I think he should show his real face. &nbsp;This is just a forum. &nbsp;Not like its a court of law.

[daperformance]

We realize that the current site is really not enough. It was a test site more or less to see what kind of response we were going to get from the internet. It really has taken off, therefore we decided to continue to pursue a full web site. We are near done with setup of the site. We will continue to use the site we have as a direct link to our new site. I wanted to let you guys know that in case one day you type in our current sites address and it pulls up another, dont be suprised, it will still be us.

[drift freaq]

if you follow deleted members posts and you know anything about who is who in Turbo'd KA's . Then you will realize who deleted member is. Better yet read FA and you will know immediately who he is. Hey deleted not trying to blow your cover(do you really have one??) . Actually deleted member is just having fun being deleted member because he discovered he could do it about a week ago.

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from DaPerformance on 5:25 pm on Feb. 9, 2002
I am assuming you didnt read my last post? We dont know this guy. Also, there are competitors that bash us on every board because they would like to see us go out of business. We are not going to close up over something someone tries to do to us. our prices are low and will always be low.
We dont try to debate on the forums. We just like to try to answer questions and be here for help etc. If we arent invited then we wont post. However, we were invited by a moderator in this forum.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Whatever I'm not arguing with you or whom ever. If there's more BS i'll just Lock the thread. I don't feel like arguing over who is who. For those of you with a short memory &quot;Deleted member&quot; is D 21. I would assume that glitch will probably be fixed with the new forum software.

[AJ]

this has been a good thread all in all. lets keep it going that way gentleman

[mbmbmb23]

Hey DAperformance, if people are knocking your kit and calling it a &quot;misrepresentation&quot; (because people assume they can plug-and-play for $1000, and yet run the same HP numbers as the &nbsp;people who paid $3500), why dont you rename it. &nbsp;Call it a &quot;barebones&quot; turbo kit. &nbsp;I think people would understand that....because the term is used when building a computer system meaning that you still have to buy other components &nbsp;to have a standard setup. &nbsp;Also, why not try and research some turbo companies and give an online link to their dynoed research, that way when people argue about the output of the T25 (with or without an upgraded ecu and fuel system), you can give them that link, and have it argue for you instead of wasting your breath on here.

Just a thought.


M

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from ca18guy on 8:56 pm on Feb. 8, 2002
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You just lost all respect/credibility in my eye's <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'>
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so in a way... that was almost some &quot;props&quot; in my direction.... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

[AceInHole]

Seriously, I don't not like daperformance in any way. &nbsp;I just want to get across the straight facts. &nbsp;It's possible that there's been some misunderstandings, or that daperformance just plain didn't know the flow map of the T25 (in any trim). &nbsp;Hopefully, coming out of this, we'll learn something, and daperformance will learn something, and everyone will be happy. &nbsp;Knowledge, not bragging rights, are why we're supposed to be on this forum.

Anyways, someone on the NiCos boards says he has a kit from daperformance, and is up in the Boston area. &nbsp;Hopefully he'll be able to come to the meet on Feb. 17, and a credible source will be able to confirm dapreformance's products at the very least (although some of the info is still very misleading). &nbsp;
(BTW: If I'm not a credible source... is Drifting Ricer?? Or maybe Yury will show up again . . . <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> )

It's not a glitch... I'm just using a loop hole to be in stealth mode...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from ca18guy on 11:33 am on Feb. 10, 2002
Whatever I'm not arguing with you or whom ever. If there's more BS i'll just Lock the thread. I don't feel like arguing over who is who. For those of you with a short memory &quot;Deleted member&quot; is D 21. I would assume that glitch will probably be fixed with the new forum software.
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[Drift Style S14]

hacker??? i think not skilled??? maybe...