Full Race's Project R14

[S14DB]

Has anyone seen Full Race's Project R14? Full GTR drive line conversion.
http://www.full-race.com/r14/images/photos/_H0J0132.jpg
http://www.full-race.com/r14/images/photos/_H0J9352.jpg
http://www.full-race.com/r14/images/photos/_H0J9505.jpg
http://www.full-race.com/r14/

[sncs14]

Yeah, skimmed throught the Modified Mag article. All I can say is that shit is crazy!

[g6civcx]

My inquiry about their pending patent application has been ignored. They may be violating federal law. You can't use the patent-pending designation if you don't actually have one pending.

[brown eyes]

I don't see the point in having an AWD RB26DETT-powered S14.

I like the corner lights. I wonder where they got them from.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/br0wn_eyes/s14ambercorner.jpg

[kove]

im prety sure the owner of that car is on this forum

[IronMonkey]

I dont if hes here, but Im pretty sure hes over at freshalloy.

[Boney]

i saw this car at HIN in phoenix 2 weeks ago.. its hot.

[vanish1]

Old news, but that shiz is hot...I want video immediately

[A Spec Products]

Full Race is gnarly.

[corey240]

I don't see the point in having an AWD RB26DETT-powered S14.

I like the corner lights. I wonder where they got them from.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/br0wn_eyes/s14ambercorner.jpg
your fucken retarded

[Gnnr]

My inquiry about their pending patent application has been ignored. They may be violating federal law. You can't use the patent-pending designation if you don't actually have one pending.

Haha, didn't know that. Fight the Power!

Anyways, so besides the AWD what are the major advantages to this?

[blackflag_Rms13]

Repost, but it deserved it's own topic anyways ;)

[PITCH]

Haha, didn't know that. Fight the Power!

Anyways, so besides the AWD what are the major advantages to this?

My take is that it's basically a GTR in S14 clothing. It think they pretty much used every thing that was worthy from the GTR and placed them in a 240. Suspension front/rear, drivetrain, ect. And made improvments where nessary. AWD + 1000HP + 240 =:2f2f:

[drift freaq]

Sick? No doubt. Impressive yes. Cost effective? hehehehe no. Though I give them a A+++++++ for bad ass and doing and doing it well.

[Dousan_PG]

full race rules
always quality products and work
super nice too!

[CKAMC]

Geoff and Jon are still looking into weather or not to mass produce the kit to make a S14 AWD... hence why its patent pending.

saw the car 2 months ago ...I passed out when I first saw how clean and great it was :) . Its still not completely done as its not fully tuned and possible upgrade of the quaif (sp?) diffs.

props to the locals for putting in a lot of hard work to make a quality one of a kind product... if you want to call the car a product of their work.

[atom]

I guess it's pretty wicked engineering wise but what's the point. Why buy a GTR that looks like a s-chassis when you could just get a real GTR which is like 10 times sicker.

[g6civcx]

Geoff and Jon are still looking into weather or not to mass produce the kit to make a S14 AWD... hence why its patent pending.


Can you put Geoff and Jon in touch with me, please? I'm not trying to bust their balls or anything, but the federal statute is very clear on it. Unless they have an application number, they should not put the "patent-pending" designation on that site. Refusing to acknowledge whether they have an application is at least unethical, if not misleading and bad business practise.

It will mean trouble for them if somebody finds out. It's like putting (TM) on something you don't actually own a trademark on.

[exitspeed]

I don't see the point in having an AWD RB26DETT-powered S14.

I like the corner lights. I wonder where they got them from.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/br0wn_eyes/s14ambercorner.jpg


This is one of the most amusing posts I've read all week.

[S14DB]

I guess it's pretty wicked engineering wise but what's the point. Why buy a GTR that looks like a s-chassis when you could just get a real GTR which is like 10 times sicker.It weighs about 1,000 lbs more.

[nonissan]

Can you put Geoff and Jon in touch with me, please? I'm not trying to bust their balls or anything, but the federal statute is very clear on it. Unless they have an application number, they should not put the "patent-pending" designation on that site. Refusing to acknowledge whether they have an application is at least unethical, if not misleading and bad business practise.

It will mean trouble for them if somebody finds out. It's like putting (TM) on something you don't actually own a trademark on.

are you the trademark police? those guys are pretty smart. i doubt they would do anything against federal laws (like drive a car on the street that is modified with a non-us legal engine/suspension/etc).....

[zenki-217]

Can you put Geoff and Jon in touch with me, please? I'm not trying to bust their balls or anything, but the federal statute is very clear on it. Unless they have an application number, they should not put the "patent-pending" designation on that site. Refusing to acknowledge whether they have an application is at least unethical, if not misleading and bad business practise.

It will mean trouble for them if somebody finds out. It's like putting (TM) on something you don't actually own a trademark on.
With the car being posted everywhere and mags knockin on the door for a photo shoot Im sure they have got all there legal squared away and if not more then likely in the process.. Why the hell do u keep bugging about it...? You think some one is gonna give you blu prints on this...:keke:

[S14DB]

Why the hell do u keep bugging about it...? You think some one is gonna give you blu prints on this...:keke:
Yeah, the patent office.

[upSLIDEdown]

I'd be a lot more impressed if they'd been able to get the ATESSA system to work.

[nonissan]

I'd be a lot more impressed if they'd been able to get the ATESSA system to work.

damn, they almost had you.....

if you look on fa, you can see why they CHOSE not to use "attesa" and also went with a manual/manumatic torque split among other things (also maybe in that mag article?).

[fliprayzin240sx]

I just read the article 30 mins ago...pretty interesting. I wanna see what they meant by 2 e-brakes...and how the hell does it actually work as far as shifting the power between the front and rears.

If they actually decide to build the kits, i wonder how much it would be. If i use the Mckinney setup as a reference, this will prolly cuz atleast $8k just for th kits before the engine and GTR setup.

[EDacIouSX]

your fucken retarded

i scrolled down to post #9 and said to myself "wow no one has flamed yet." then... i got to #10 and go figure................................ :-/.

ANYWAY, this car and concept behind it looks pretty dope

[atom]

It weighs about 1,000 lbs more.

An R34, which is the heaviest of the recent GT-r's is about 3300-3400 lbs. So they are actually claiming that this car weighs in at 2300-2400 lbs? I call bullshit.

EDIT : Re-read the thread on FA and Geoff said it weighed in at 2980. So it weighs about 300 lbs less than a completely bone stock R32.

[zenki-217]

I saw that all modifications to the chassis with twin down pipes everything needed and done minus the engine and tranny installed is
12k-14k

[g6civcx]

are you the trademark police? those guys are pretty smart. i doubt they would do anything against federal laws (like drive a car on the street that is modified with a non-us legal engine/suspension/etc).....

The discussion is about patents, not trademark. Do you know the difference? If not, post up and I'll be glad to educate you.

I am posting in my capacity as a consumer. I will not support companies who use false advertising to mislead the public. If it's indeed a mistake, they need to consult with their attorneys ASAP before irreparable damage is done to their business.

People lose their whole life's work over dumb stuff like this every day. I'd hate to see a good company go down over this stuff.


With the car being posted everywhere and mags knockin on the door for a photo shoot Im sure they have got all there legal squared away and if not more then likely in the process.. Why the hell do u keep bugging about it...? You think some one is gonna give you blu prints on this...:keke:

Yeah, the patent office.


S14DB has the right idea, but it also depends on what kind of protection they're looking for. They may or may not disclose the "blueprints".


Listen up, all you kids who have never set foot inside a court room need to sit down and shut up. I'm trying to help out this company. If they can pull it off, and can get the whole swap federally legal, it will be a HUGE HUGE step forward for 240 owners. It would be one more option we would have. Whether you like it or not is a different story, but it will mean another vendor who can support the platform, which means more options and possibilities exist. Get that through your feeble brain.

Again, stupid things like this can and has brought down companies much bigger and much smarter than Full Race. I am very fond of their products and I don't want to see the company disappear.

Move on to the next topic of discussion, please.

[NemeGuero]

yummy.............

[kerosinek]

To the guy with the bug up his ass about the patent... Go to Full Race's website, click on the "contact us" button (it may be called something different but you seem smart so you should be able to find it), and send them an email. Zilvia is not the place to bring this to Full Race's attention.

The car is sick. I saw it at HIN in Arizona and about crapped my pants when I realized it was AWD. Props to Full Race.

[g6civcx]

To the guy with the bug up his ass about the patent... Go to Full Race's website, click on the "contact us" button (it may be called something different but you seem smart so you should be able to find it), and send them an email. Zilvia is not the place to bring this to Full Race's attention.


Done many times many months back. All my correspondence have been ignored.

This is to let the people know what the company is doing, not to bring it to Full Race's attention.

I'm not knocking the company or the product. I want them to succeed. I don't want them to fail because of stupid things. Get it through your head.

[TurDz]

Done many times many months back. All my correspondence have been ignored.

This is to let the people know what the company is doing, not to bring it to Full Race's attention.

I'm not knocking the company or the product. I want them to succeed. I don't want them to fail because of stupid things. Get it through your head.

Yeah, I think g6civcx has made it clear he just wants them to suceed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_pending

...

[FrickU]

I bought the magazine last night, and that is a crazy conversion.
I would love to see that on the track.

[S14DB]

Fines would suck:
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/documents/appxl_35_U_S_C_292.htm

[ixfxi]

there were a few things i didnt like about the car, but nothing that cant be changed or fixed....

1) stock S14 cloth seats with racing harnesses? jesus, are R32 seats that hard to find? Maybe time was putting pressure on them. I just think that changing the seats would do a lot for that type of car.

2) Ebrake bias splitter? Weird. A simple control knob splitter sounds like the way to go. Again, I am sure they just ran out of time and needed to get the project presentable.

3) J-spec headlamps in the US? First of all, they are plastic. Second, I dont know why they called them "black housing" I dont recall the J-spec lamps being darker, unless they were disassembled and painted. But either way, get rid of those crap headlamps.. atleast pickup a pair of German E-code lamps.

4) I wasnt really happy with the wheel/tire choice on that car. Its not bad, I just think a nice 3-piece wheel would be better. Not a fan of 18's, but hey.. it works.

5) Brakes. I believe the Z32/R32 brakes are sufficient for our cars under light to medium loads. Under heavy braking (or RB powered car), I would go with a real big brake system (wilwood or better).

Anyway, all of the above is all easily changeable. I like Full Race, I think they are a good company and should do very well in selling buildups like this. From a business perspective, I think its a smart venture and should provide a good service for people wanting a Skyline-esque S14.

From a personal perspective, I've always felt that the 240SX in general should be appreciated and modified for maximum lightness. I've respected cars like Russ's because I think its the epitome of quality enthusiasm from someone who has spent WAY too much time learning the chassis (much like myself).

The R14 is an attempt to make the 240SX battle with the heavyweight GT cars, this means G35, 350Z, Z32, Supra, etc. Fun stuff, just not my taste. I follow the Lotus Elise/Exige mentality.

Best of luck to Full Race, respect on building a very interesting machine.
- Mike / ClearCorners.Com

[fliprayzin240sx]

I saw that all modifications to the chassis with twin down pipes everything needed and done minus the engine and tranny installed is
12k-14k

Wow...that just made it out of reach of 98% of 240 owners. I just need to win the lottery to do this shiet. I can bring back a RB setup from japan in 4 yrs.

[g6civcx]

Fines would suck:
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/documents/appxl_35_U_S_C_292.htm

S14DB hit it exactly on the head. Although $500 per offense doesn't seem like much, they may charge you with each page hit as an offense because each hit represents one customer who was misled.

Also, defending yourself in federal district is horribly expensive. It still costs a buckload even if you "win".

The other important law is United States Code, Title 35, Chapter 10, Section 102, subparagraphs (a) and (b), which states:

A person shall be entitled to a patent unless -

(a) the invention was known or used by others in this country, or patented or described in a printed publication in this or a foreign country, before the invention thereof by the applicant for patent, or

(b) the invention was patented or described in a printed publication in this or a foreign country or in public use or on sale in this country, more than one year prior to the date of the application for patent in the United States

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/documents/appxl_35_U_S_C_102.htm#usc35s102

They would immediately lose their patent rights if they tried to sell before applying.

If I were the official Examiner of Record on their case, if they ever filed one, and I stumbled on that page, I would not hesitate to issue a final rejection and immediately close prosecution on their case.


And while we're at it, I'll respond to this:

With the car being posted everywhere and mags knockin on the door for a photo shoot Im sure they have got all there legal squared away and if not more then likely in the process.. Why the hell do u keep bugging about it...? You think some one is gonna give you blu prints on this...:keke:

United States Code, Title 35, Chapter 11, Section 112, first paragraph states:

The specification shall contain a written description of the invention, and of the manner and process of making and using it, in such full, clear, concise, and exact terms as to enable any person skilled in the art to which it pertains, or with which it is most nearly connected, to make and use the same, and shall set forth the best mode contemplated by the inventor of carrying out his invention.

That means that their patent claims must be supported by adequate disclosure that enables one of ordinary skill in the art to make and use the invention. This should include "blueprints", if by blueprints you mean technical specs so that anybody with ordinary skill who picks up their patent can go out and build an R14 of their own.

If they do not disclose a blueprints, their application will be immediately rejected, and they cannot add new matter for support that was not originally in the application.

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/documents/appxl_35_U_S_C_112.htm#usc35s112


The other thing is if they use the patent-pending designation falsely, they're being dishonest and misleading the public, which is us. That's not right, and I refuse to support dishonest companies. All of this is pretty normal stuff for patents and their attorneys should have already dealt with it.



Personally, I am rooting for them to succeed with their car and be able to pull it off and make it street-legal; however, I don't know if they have the budget to get it EPA-exempt. So technically it may pass state and local inspection, but it would still be federally illegal, especially in OBDII S14s.

I think ixfxi brought up very valid points, but I think Full Race was more interested in demonstrating the drivetrain than any of the other issues you brought up, although they are very valid issues and do need to be addressed. I think they know that people know enough to know that those things are easily fixed, like R32 seats, Wilwood brakes, etc.

It would open the door for many interesting options. 1,000-bhp R13, anyone? :)

[Jonnie Fraz]

Wow! Pretty interesting stuff. The car looks amazing, and I am shure it has a few bugs to work out. Full Race does some truly amazing work on there products.
One thing I am interested in, is if they want to make this a kit how they will get around the engine switching law for the RB, since it was not offered in any configuration imported to the US. This would require crash testing several cars to meet Federal DOT standards.
Truly I like g6cvics wish Full Race the best, and he is right if this gets done it would be a huge step forward for 240 owners.
Best of luck.

[g6civcx]

They can try to get EPA-exempted, but as far as I know they got much stricter thanks to Motorex. You may still get it if you're patience and have money. Same goes with DOT.

BTW, Geoff from Full Race informed me that they do have a pending provisional application, and they're working on the nonprovisional application. He would not tell me the application number though. I guess we shall see after his 39 months :)

[ixfxi]

BTW, Geoff from Full Race informed me that they do have a pending provisional application, and they're working on the nonprovisional application. He would not tell me the application number though.

Just curious, why WOULD or SHOULD they give that type of information out? Its nice you are caring and trying to help as you pointed out in this thread.. but dont you think this is something that they can handle on their own?

You cant just trust people off the streets and forums. If someone wanted that type of info from me, i'de tell them to go pound sand.

[kognition]

They are claiming Patent Pending? Even if they tried, it wouldn't fly. It isn't NOVEL. Cool definitely. I have been thru it with Patent Attorneys myself. I own a
registered trademark as well, and framed on my office wall. You can legally put TM. after anything you like without filing for it now. It has little hold up in court though. My patent search, (yes, you need to do one) was $1,500 just to search for similar inventions. Their best investment would be in just doing a great job on their customers cars, and get the referrals. But when you say Patent Pending, you must at least file the new streamline "Provisional Patent" application. It gives you the legal right to claim Patent Pending for 12 months. At which time, you must file for a full patent or it is null and void.
Remember that a company must pay attorneys to defend their patents in court. Filing the provisional is about $75.00
uspto.gov

Can you put Geoff and Jon in touch with me, please? I'm not trying to bust their balls or anything, but the federal statute is very clear on it. Unless they have an application number, they should not put the "patent-pending" designation on that site. Refusing to acknowledge whether they have an application is at least unethical, if not misleading and bad business practise.

It will mean trouble for them if somebody finds out. It's like putting (TM) on something you don't actually own a trademark on.

[kognition]

Besides, a provisional never gets logged into the USPTO system for access by the public. It gets filed for future use in litigation or proving who filed first. By asking them that information, you are just making them paranoid probably. I hope they make the right choice. It is expensive to defend a patent. Many companies break apart for that reason. It breaks the bank, and the losing defendants go belly up and nobody to pay your legal costs.

Just curious, why WOULD or SHOULD they give that type of information out? Its nice you are caring and trying to help as you pointed out in this thread.. but dont you think this is something that they can handle on their own?

You cant just trust people off the streets and forums. If someone wanted that type of info from me, i'de tell them to go pound sand.

[thetopcow]

the only thing I dont like about the kit is the price. i would love to roll up on someone unsuspectingly and smoke them...but for 13400 or 14600...not a chance i will ever have that much cash. somebody else read their FAQ on projectr14.com, but i dont think that even includes the engine. Just installation and some of full races custom parts.

[SochBAT]

You gotta remember, its not just plug-and-play. For the most part, everything seems custom. And, as we all know, custom work = customized amount of money. More power to the FullRace guys.

AWD Gokart, someone make one.

[usdm180sx]

Yay for choosing a zenki z14 instead of a kouki :D

[g6civcx]

You can legally put TM. after anything you like without filing for it now. It has little hold up in court though.

You are absolutely correct. The TM designation may be used without discrimination. It has little value in court, as said above. I am not a trademark attorney so thank you for the schooling.

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/doc/basic/register.htm

I will now amend my post to say:

It's like putting (R) on something you don't actually own a trademark on.

[g6civcx]

Just curious, why WOULD or SHOULD they give that type of information out? Its nice you are caring and trying to help as you pointed out in this thread.. but dont you think this is something that they can handle on their own?

You cant just trust people off the streets and forums. If someone wanted that type of info from me, i'de tell them to go pound sand.

Again, I'm asking in my capacity as a consumer. They don't have to disclose the content of the application if it's never published. They should acknowledge whether or not they have a pending application. If they refuse to, it's not nice to tell your customer something, and then not backing it up, as explained above.

It's like I'm trying to sell you something, and I say, "this has never been done before, and no one can sell it but me". You then ask, "can you at least give me some proof?". To which, I reply, "go pound sand".

Think about it. That's not very courteous to your customer. Again, all I wanted was for them to acknowledge or remove the designation. It's my legal right as a consumer.


People who don't understand the patent system want to keep everything secretive. The whole purpose of a patent is to get legal protection for public disclosure. It would be highly favorable for them to disclose everything after their filing date. This has 2 benefits:

1) Since everybody knows about it, anybody who wants to challenge may do so. This makes the patent stronger if it issues.

2) Since everybody knows about it, they won't try to sell it because they know you'll sue them.


The purpose of the whole system is to issue strong patents. You can keep everything a secret, and get a weak patent that will not hold up in court. That's worse than not having a patent at all because you spent a lot of money and you are now exposed to law suit because you hold a patent.

The whole purpose of getting a patent is to use it to sue people. If you can't sue with it, it's not worth the money to get one.

Again, if you don't want to disclose your invention, don't file a patent. Keep it a trade secret and risk the invention getting stolen. Filing a patent means you have to tell the public in exchange for legal protection. If you don't tell the public everything (how to build it, use it, the best mode to build and use, etc), your patent may be invalidated.

They are claiming Patent Pending? Even if they tried, it wouldn't fly. It isn't NOVEL. Cool definitely. I have been thru it with Patent Attorneys myself. I own a
registered trademark as well, and framed on my office wall. You can legally put TM. after anything you like without filing for it now. It has little hold up in court though. My patent search, (yes, you need to do one) was $1,500 just to search for similar inventions. Their best investment would be in just doing a great job on their customers cars, and get the referrals. But when you say Patent Pending, you must at least file the new streamline "Provisional Patent" application. It gives you the legal right to claim Patent Pending for 12 months. At which time, you must file for a full patent or it is null and void.
Remember that a company must pay attorneys to defend their patents in court. Filing the provisional is about $75.00
uspto.gov

How could you say if it's novel or not without even seeing the claims because the nonprovisional doesn't exist yet? Do you have insider information? :D

The other benefit is just file the provisional ASAP and abandon it after 12 months. At least you will have an official document for use as a defense in case somebody sues you. You can't use it to sue anybody else, but at least you can use it to defend yourself.

[CylonFrakker]

PLEASE TAKE THIS TO PM THIS IS TO DISCUSS THE CAR NOT THE LEGALITIES BEHIND ITS PATENT. CONSIDER IT A FUCKING CONCEPT. PLEASE SHUT THE FUCK WITH THIS LEGAL DRIVEL! I WANNA READ ABOUT THE CAR NOT FULL RACE'S INCONSISTENCIES. THANKS AND HAVING A FUCKING GREAT DAY.


Again, I'm asking in my capacity as a consumer. They don't have to disclose the content of the application if it's never published. They should acknowledge whether or not they have a pending application. If they refuse to, it's not nice to tell your customer something, and then not backing it up, as explained above.

It's like I'm trying to sell you something, and I say, "this has never been done before, and no one can sell it but me". You then ask, "can you at least give me some proof?". To which, I reply, "go pound sand".

Think about it. That's not very courteous to your customer. Again, all I wanted was for them to acknowledge or remove the designation. It's my legal right as a consumer.


People who don't understand the patent system want to keep everything secretive. The whole purpose of a patent is to get legal protection for public disclosure. It would be highly favorable for them to disclose everything after their filing date. This has 2 benefits:

1) Since everybody knows about it, anybody who wants to challenge may do so. This makes the patent stronger if it issues.

2) Since everybody knows about it, they won't try to sell it because they know you'll sue them.


The purpose of the whole system is to issue strong patents. You can keep everything a secret, and get a weak patent that will not hold up in court. That's worse than not having a patent at all because you spent a lot of money and you are now exposed to law suit because you hold a patent.

The whole purpose of getting a patent is to use it to sue people. If you can't sue with it, it's not worth the money to get one.

Again, if you don't want to disclose your invention, don't file a patent. Keep it a trade secret and risk the invention getting stolen. Filing a patent means you have to tell the public in exchange for legal protection. If you don't tell the public everything (how to build it, use it, the best mode to build and use, etc), your patent may be invalidated.



How could you say if it's novel or not without even seeing the claims because the nonprovisional doesn't exist yet? Do you have insider information? :D

The other benefit is just file the provisional ASAP and abandon it after 12 months. At least you will have an official document for use as a defense in case somebody sues you. You can't use it to sue anybody else, but at least you can use it to defend yourself.

[Boney]

Nice article in Modified guys.

[kognition]

Hey if they have developed new technology, go for filing. If you are filing on a concept of swapping this cars drive system into that car over there, it doesn't seem novel because it doesn't sound like a true invention. BTW, "Novel" is a word used in patent language by the USPTO. It isn't just a word i threw out there. You are asking the USPTO to patent your idea of the swapping around of allready patented car parts made by Nissan.
There are just too many questions that will arise. From a business POV, and any industry guy will say the same thing... build the concept on referral based business. If they make unique parts that are required for this swap, that is their key to success. And we all know too well, fabrication and engine swaps are referral driven anyway. I just think that their time and money would be better spent stocking up on these conversions. Because guys are allready going crazy wanting them. He who has the most conversion parts is in control
of the market, not the owner of a patent. It takes 2 to 3 years for a patent to be approved. And about 15 months expedited for a higher fee. Meanwhile, you can't stop anyone from doing it. And when your patent goes into effect (If it does), Joe Dirt will just fold up shop when you serve him his infringement papers. Thats the real world on patents.
A friend of mine owned a chain of 13 health stores, with a patent on a suppliment. Another company copied it, and was infringing, but the in house legal dept. said to defend the patent would be 500 grand. It was not worth the money to defend their patent. So they did nothing. It was a logical decision they had to make, because that particular product was not pulling in the profit to justify defending the patent. Sorry write such a long bit about this. But i hope i shed some light for those who have considered doing the same thing.
As for you who are inquiring so much to Full Race's filing, why are you so insistent on them explaining themselves to you? Seriously. I hope they make a killing.


How could you say if it's novel or not without even seeing the claims because the nonprovisional doesn't exist yet? Do you have insider information? :D

[FullRaceGeoff]

Hi guys, thanks for the thread. I dont get on here too often

I am the owner/founder of full-race and the R14 is my personal car. I oversaw the project from concept to finish and i had 4 mechanical engineers (one is a master's student) working on it, along with 1 full time mechanic and 2 fabricators with me for 4-8 months. We are still working on it daily. We have accepted no orders. I have been asked by many who wish to place orders and i was even offered an obscene amount of money for my personal car (which i turned down)

g6civcx -- sorry about not getting to your email the instant it was sent. We were EXTREMELY busy getting ready for SEMA (i had to build another R14 cutaway chassis just for the show) and could not respond to most of the emails I received. I was not blowing you off, i was not giving you inconsistent answers, i was simply extremely busy.

As far as the patent filing goes, we have a very well known firm who we are working on this with. They are very expensive, and very good. The provisional application has been filed, the non provisional wil be filed in 2007. We would not risk losing our business, deceiving our customers, or hurting the whole community with the words "patent pending" if we were not serious about this.

We are educated, formally trained mechanical engineers. We really do know what we are doing.

thanks for the discussion. if anyone has any *TECHNICAL* questions i would be happy to answer. I will not discuss patent stuff, as that is what i pay our friends for.

[g6civcx]

Geoff, I got your email. Thanks for the reply. What firm are you working with? Your project looks very interesting and I'm excited to see your application when/if it publishes. Best of luck to you.


kognition, with all due respect, I have no idea what they're claiming. It is the claims that define their legal ownership. Just because you know what the R14 looks like, that doesn't mean they will claim the whole thing or nothing at all. Writing claims is an art in and of itself. No offense, but lawyers who went to law school and practised for years still don't get it quite right.

That is why I am very excited to see what the application looks like. If you would like to submit art, file an interference, etc., you're always strongly encouraged to do so. It is ultimately up to the Examiner of Record to decide if it's novel, nonobvious, and statutory. If you have references you would like to submit, you're always welcome to do so through the proper channel.


The car itself is very interesting. I hope it gets EPA-exempted and parts be easy to get.

[aznpoopy]

g6 knows his shit. i'm actually taking patent law in law school right now. you can trust me, because everyone knows lawyers and law students are trustworthy.

the only thing i would add is we have no idea what they are actually claiming under the 'I Claim' section. i would guess its the mods and custom bits and pieces that actually make this swap work in a s14 chassis. with that (admittedly) fuzzy concept in my head, it seems like it would have a high chance of flunking the non-obvious requirement for patentability.

[FullRaceGeoff]

there were a few things i didnt like about the car, but nothing that cant be changed or fixed....

1) stock S14 cloth seats with racing harnesses? jesus, are R32 seats that hard to find? Maybe time was putting pressure on them. I just think that changing the seats would do a lot for that type of car.

STATUS had promised us seats in time for the photos. The day of the shoot no seats. It was either S14 seats or mismatched sparcos, im sure you would have complained either way :jerkit: j/k



2) Ebrake bias splitter? Weird. A simple control knob splitter sounds like the way to go. Again, I am sure they just ran out of time and needed to get the project presentable.


This is actually the same setup used in many other GTRs. In fact veilside sells a kit similar to this, mine just happened to be integrated into the center console so you cant see it.

Regardless, we do have the electronic system, testing will begin very shortly.



3) J-spec headlamps in the US? First of all, they are plastic. Second, I dont know why they called them "black housing" I dont recall the J-spec lamps being darker, unless they were disassembled and painted. But either way, get rid of those crap headlamps.. atleast pickup a pair of German E-code lamps.


it was actually an inside joke. Im not going to go into details, but they are the stock US 95 headlights (painted black on the inside) with 232k miles on them. Another thing to piss you off is that one bulb is a super white, the other is a stock bulb :fawk: lol

Ill get the german lights once i finish upgrading my oiling system, get some penske's on all 4 corners, and eat something besides ramen noodles.


4) I wasnt really happy with the wheel/tire choice on that car. Its not bad, I just think a nice 3-piece wheel would be better. Not a fan of 18's, but hey.. it works.


rims = mismatched volks that were free. I had the centers powdercoated flat black becuase they were 3 different colors

tires = free. there are now advan a048Rs on 10.5s 285x35x18


5) Brakes. I believe the Z32/R32 brakes are sufficient for our cars under light to medium loads. Under heavy braking (or RB powered car), I would go with a real big brake system (wilwood or better).

r32 brakes = on my clip. just becuase i own full-race doesnt mean i dont have a budget. There are some r34 brakes on the floor of my office tho :)


From a personal perspective, I've always felt that the 240SX in general should be appreciated and modified for maximum lightness.

The R14 is an attempt to make the 240SX battle with the heavyweight GT cars, this means G35, 350Z, Z32, Supra, etc. Fun stuff, just not my taste. I follow the Lotus Elise/Exige mentality.


i feel the s2000/elise/exige is the car to build for maximum lightness...

the r14 is absolutely a heavyweight, just in sheeps clothing.

[fliprayzin240sx]

How much power did you guys ended up making with the current setup. Also, when you dyno it, do you guys dyno it AWD or RWD? Just curious, i figured when it runs RWD, it should put down more power to the wheels than it would AWD since there will be less drivetrain loss.

[S14DB]

When are we going to see the R14 on Pinks?

[g6civcx]

BTW, welcome to Zilvia, Geoff.

[Slidin240Wayz]

When are we going to see the R14 on Pinks?

That will be the day.

G6- if it all goes through, would this be like the special edition z31 convertibles?

Carlos

[FullRaceGeoff]

How much power did you guys ended up making with the current setup. Also, when you dyno it, do you guys dyno it AWD or RWD? Just curious, i figured when it runs RWD, it should put down more power to the wheels than it would AWD since there will be less drivetrain loss.

The car has not yet been dynoed. When it is dynoed, we will do it on a 2wd Dynapak hub dyno. I Just got my jun oil pump in, and am going to install it before dynoing. I had put the motor together with an N1 oil pump, only to have 2 freinds blow up N1 oil pumps on high boost pulls.. I dont want to risk it. I expect ~800-850 on the 42R, 750 on the 4094 and 650 on the 35R

We will dyno the car with the GT42R, GT4094R, and then a GT35R. Once it is tuned for all three we will have solid performance data and tunes, then bring it over to the local AWD dynojet. AWD will definately have more losses

[fliprayzin240sx]

Wow...imma be waiting for that 42R dyno sheet please. Which turbos on the car right now? Also, 3 turbos, so 3 different manifold too?

[S14DB]

Should all be T4.

[FullRaceGeoff]

all turbos are T4, so they use the same manifold, same downpipe, same charge piping. Just slightly modify all turbos to be 4" Vband turbine outlet and 3" coupler compressor outlet

[PowerHungry240sx]

As well...a proper GTR-34, imported to Cali runs around $55k +. How cheap can you find some 240 chasis? That is another factor. I doubt that all of this work cost them up to that price.

[Ian]

Uhh...R34 GTR for 55k?

That's all they go for?


I'm pretty sure that # is way off

[Jonnie Fraz]

rims = mismatched volks that were free. I had the centers powdercoated flat black becuase they were 3 different colors

tires = free. there are now advan a048Rs on 10.5s 285x35x18

:)


.

Geoff,

Great build, I would love to see this put into production...Very nice I do have a very important question...How do I get on the free Volks program that you are on...LOL
Keep up the great work, and best of luck.

[S14DB]

So, When does the SR20 Z32 come out?

[thejapino]

Here you go Geoff, why not:

Pulsar GTI-R drivetrain

into

B13 Sentra 2-door

If you could throw an R32 drivetrain into an s-chassis, this combo would be a cakewalk!

Think about it;

Lightweight 2-door chassis w/ AWD TURBO!!! just a thought.

[fliprayzin240sx]

You want a sleeper, get a 2nd gen altima and do the bluebird conversion with awd.

[CylonFrakker]

You want a sleeper, get a 2nd gen altima and do the bluebird conversion with awd.


that would be a sleeper but the whole point of this S14 is clean performance styling and aggressive brutal performance. Think of the look on the Murcielago owner's face when this S14 keeps up with him from a launch and pulls on him in second gear? Wow that would make the 20K price worth it.

[KA-T_240]

that would be a sleeper but the whole point of this S14 is clean performance styling and aggressive brutal performance. Think of the look on the Murcielago owner's face when this S14 keeps up with him from a launch and pulls on him in second gear? Wow that would make the 20K price worth it.


quoted for the trutch

[Chemical Whore]

20k for all this?

[azndummie]

Dayum talk about going to the extreme. Simply amazing.

[Chrischeezer]

The car has not yet been dynoed. When it is dynoed, we will do it on a 2wd Dynapak hub dyno. I Just got my jun oil pump in, and am going to install it before dynoing. I had put the motor together with an N1 oil pump, only to have 2 freinds blow up N1 oil pumps on high boost pulls.. I dont want to risk it. I expect ~800-850 on the 42R, 750 on the 4094 and 650 on the 35R

We will dyno the car with the GT42R, GT4094R, and then a GT35R. Once it is tuned for all three we will have solid performance data and tunes, then bring it over to the local AWD dynojet. AWD will definately have more losses

you guys are so hardcore,

:bowrofl:

[ronmcdon]

I really like the idea a lot, esp adding the awd setup.

would there be any possibility of simply doing an awd conversion for the s14, while retaining the use of a sr20det or ka swap? id imagine that would prob be a more affordable alternative a lot more of us, including myself. Im satisfied with my sr swap, but id be really tempted to go awd with an adjustable f/r torque split setup.

It would be great for those of us who already have somewhat built cars to add awd and other parts, instead of starting from scratch again.

[300hp owen]

old old thread but I opened up a new calendar out of Modified Mag and saw the R14 and checked the FullRace site, low and behold it was updated just a few days ago to say they wont be building cars for people but they will offer the kit for the DIY kinda guy. very cool and should keep costs down and let more people be capable of this project.

if I didnt have my LS1FC then I would think very seriously about building an R14. I think its a great way to run the GTR drivetrain in a US-legal and somewhat inexpensive chassis. even in tough states you can use an OBD1 '95 S14 and not have major issues with emissions and still use it as a streetcar. I must say, even with 400hp at the wheels it would be one hell of a fun car... I sure wouldnt need 1000hp to go have a blast at a trackday, that would probably be too fast and go thru tires too fast for my wallet.

man I cant believe how off topic this thread went with the patent pending bullshit that shoudl have been taken to PM, it only needed to be brought up in here once if anything then laid to rest.... wtf... gotta love the intArWebs, durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

with the passing of time I wonder if FullRace has made any improvements or changes and logged any track time in the car at all or if they have been too busy to do anything at all? I look forward to seeing some updates!!!

[CursedGTR]

old old thread but I opened up a new calendar out of Modified Mag and saw the R14 and checked the FullRace site, low and behold it was updated just a few days ago to say they wont be building cars for people but they will offer the kit for the DIY kinda guy. very cool and should keep costs down and let more people be capable of this project.

if I didnt have my LS1FC then I would think very seriously about building an R14. I think its a great way to run the GTR drivetrain in a US-legal and somewhat inexpensive chassis. even in tough states you can use an OBD1 '95 S14 and not have major issues with emissions and still use it as a streetcar. I must say, even with 400hp at the wheels it would be one hell of a fun car... I sure wouldnt need 1000hp to go have a blast at a trackday, that would probably be too fast and go thru tires too fast for my wallet.



man I cant believe how off topic this thread went with the patent pending bullshit that shoudl have been taken to PM, it only needed to be brought up in here once if anything then laid to rest.... wtf... gotta love the intArWebs, durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

with the passing of time I wonder if FullRace has made any improvements or changes and logged any track time in the car at all or if they have been too busy to do anything at all? I look forward to seeing some updates!!!

AWD for the DIY?????? Looks like an S15 is about to be converted in the future.

[bziggers13]

that'd be pretty badass.. awd kits eh?? must cost a pretty penny...

[bloodangels13]

I would be interested in a awd kit in the future but for s13 and i would retain the atessa ets pro .... i heard that some of awd control on the r14was taking from a subaru?... i did here any comfermation of that but atessa has proved its self as an amazing system .. its all about sensor placement from what ive read... i jus wanna build a awd s13 coupe .. I like the r32 but im in love with the s13 silvia

[300hp owen]

from what I have read it was all nissan stuff (no word on subaru, that would probably be even harder to utilize).

yes you can build an R34 out of an S13 if you wanted to. it would be sick in an S13 coupe, not many people would guess you'd have a 400hp AWD fire breathing dragon of a powerplant and drivetrain under that old style body... but putting the power down would warrant some 255's at all four corners so look forward to wide front fenders and some $$$ wheels to make it all happen.

[a_ahmed]

What would be awesome if they did an LS1 AWD hehe, with all the drivetrain technology of the GTR but thats just dreams :P The LS1 imho is such a better more potent/cheaper engine to make go crazy... just my opinion and much lighter too...

Too bad you guys never finished the R13...

The only thing that would intrigue me most would be the front end suspension swap... from mcpherson strut design to doubleswishbones... if u could sell that as a diy only kit for cheap that'd be neat and i would consider it but alas.

I'm an s13 :)

[g6civcx]

Since someone dragged up this old thread, I think it deserves an update.

Full Race pulled their patent-pending designation from their Web site. This means that all of my comments posted above are moot.

I hope they can get this kit together, although I'm not sure if an S13 chassis can handle it without investing some money in restoration, or if S13 owners have/want to spend money on this.
That will be the day.

G6- if it all goes through, would this be like the special edition z31 convertibles?

Carlos

I'm not sure what this question means. What do you mean be "like" the Z31 le vert?

[bloodangels13]

from what I have read it was all nissan stuff (no word on subaru, that would probably be even harder to utilize).

yes you can build an R34 out of an S13 if you wanted to. it would be sick in an S13 coupe, not many people would guess you'd have a 400hp AWD fire breathing dragon of a powerplant and drivetrain under that old style body... but putting the power down would warrant some 255's at all four corners so look forward to wide front fenders and some $$$ wheels to make it all happen.

i figure the whole suby thing was wrong .... as far as putting the power down im all ready running 18x8.5 255/40 in the front and 18x9.5 275/35 in the rear so im not afraid of sticking some meats under the wheel wells of a s13... a stitch welded chassis and a good cage with some nice sus reforcement will take care of ridgity issues ill buy another chassis to do this project