"Presidental Address"

[SiI40sx]

wtf? stupid ass president is going to "increase" the border partol for our nation, mainly "focused" on our southern border. wtf what about west east north?! did you guys hear his address? it kept contradicting itself and said nothing useful and left a lot of facts out. "The border patrol is doing a better job they caught and returned 6 million illegals" yeah but how many got in??

[L1ama]

Mexicans will still find ways to sneak in, why doesn't he improve schools, or fix pot holes with the money, roads in NYC kill struts within 6 months or less, sometimes its worth speeding over the bumps, even if you get a ticket, the car would take less punishment, well anyway he said something like he will put motion sensors, and use all the technology to prevent them from coming in, but still a lot will come in here some way.

[cheap_sticker05]

Why the hell does he have to interupt Prison Break?!

[ALTRNTV]

You should put a PW disclaimer on your thread title.

[SiI40sx]

Why the hell does he have to interupt Prison Break?!

off subject but +1 for prison break haha

[gorgasm]

Why the hell does he have to interupt Prison Break?!
I am anxiously awaiting that tonight. im glad im on the westcoast ^.^

[A Spec Products]

Why the hell does he have to interupt Prison Break?!

oh crap

i forgot its tonight

gotta go home im outta here ahhhh

[theicecreamdan]

or fix pot holes with the money, roads in NYC kill struts within 6 months or less, sometimes its worth speeding over the bumps, even if you get a ticket, the car would take less punishment,


no, speeding only makes it feel like less punishment, but you are in fact putting more strain on your suspension by going faster.

Wouldnt fixing the potholes be something you need to talk to your governor about? or mayor?

[L1ama]

no, speeding only makes it feel like less punishment, but you are in fact putting more strain on your suspension by going faster.

Wouldnt fixing the potholes be something you need to talk to your governor about? or mayor?
Eh, I just hope they fix the damn things, one time I accelerate off a light, next block the middle of the block, I notice something, and I always sit all the way back, and I come up and look, and I see literally like 4 inch inside the ground hole on the road, stretches through both sides of the road and is about 10 inches wide, because of some construction, so I nearly locked my tires trying to stop for those, I noticed some cars on the other side going really slow, so I was lucky enough to start looking for hazzards on the road, I rolled over it at like 2 mph or so, you won't imagine how bad the roads are here, maybe you are right, but some things like this, yes have to go really really slow, but I still kind of feel like I need to go fast over certain ones, since the car just flies over them, and interior shakes less, so I guess it takes less damage. I'm pissed because our tax money is going to improve our borders, fuck the borders, I want some smooth fucking pavement :madfawk:

[SiI40sx]

hahaha theres more responses about prison break than there is about the actual topic of this thread haha, +2 for prison break

[m072514]

you should take that up with the municipal or state government. the president has very little to do with the quality of the roads in NYC.

[OptionZero]

governor here already put a shitlaod of money into rebuilding crap

environmentalists and democrats wanna use it on healthcare, social services and education

you make the call

president's incharge of immigration..bitching to local government about it is pointless, really

the border needs to be strengthed, this is not deniable
on the other hand, the immigration system needs to be reformed and less corrupt

practically speaking you can't deport that many people anyways
illegal immigrant labor strains the government in law enforcement, social services, and education...but it also allows big business to keep prices labor thru cheap labor

really, we need a comprehensive study detailing the cost of immigrants to local and state government versus the economic benefit

illiegal immigration is illegal, but capitalism is capitalism

green talks

oh, and bitchign about government...you only get to do that if you vote, otherwise ur just a ignorant idiot spouting off like a coward thru the internet

research anything before you criticize it, do your civic duties (jury duty, military service if it comes to that), and you have the right to moan and whine all you want

what i hate is immigration protests demanding more rights and crap...well, fine, you want rights? well how bout being so eager to pay taxes and contribute as a a citizen?

on the other hand, people railing against immigrants...they dont exercise the rights they have, so they're hypocrites too usually

stupidity on every side, every aspect of society

[punkz]

stupidity on every side, every aspect of society

That sums up everything pretty nicely.

[HyperTek]

The main reason he is concentrating on the southern boarder is not of race, but just becuase majority of the illegal immigration comes from there. Its easier to put a fence up and gard it instead of monitoring the air traffic and sea patrol on the west or east coast to see who is coming over.

Bush to send up to 6,000 troops to border

By NEDRA PICKLER
Associated Press Writer


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WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush said Monday night he would order as many as 6,000 National Guard troops to secure the U.S. border with Mexico and urged Congress to give millions of illegal immigrants a chance at citizenship, as he tried to build support for a major overhaul of the nation's tattered immigration laws.

"We do not yet have full control of the border and I am determined to change that," the president said in pressing for his $1.9 billion plan in a 17-minute prime-time address from the Oval Office.

Bush gave strong support to a plan that would give many of the 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States an eventual path to possible citizenship - a move derided by some conservatives in his own Republican Party as amnesty. He rejected that term.

"It is neither wise nor realistic to round up millions of people, many with deep roots in the United States and send them across the border," he said. "There is a rational middle ground between granting an automatic path to citizenship for every illegal immigrant and a program of mass deportation."



The Guard troops would mostly serve two-week stints before rotating out of the assignment, so keeping the force level at 6,000 over the course of a year could require up to 156,000 troops.

Still, Bush insisted, "The United States is not going to militarize the southern border."

The White House wouldn't say how much the deployments would cost, but said the troops would paid for as part of $1.9 billion being requested from Congress to supplement border enforcement this year.

The president timed his speech hours after the Senate began intense debate on an immigration bill that has been getting increasing attention in a year when all House seats and one-third of Senate seats are up for election. The rare televised, prime-time Oval Office address signified the high stakes for Bush, who has been asking for an immigration overhaul since his the 2000 campaign.

President Bush says a temporary-worker program would go a long way toward reducing pressure on border security.
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House Majority Whip Roy Blunt, R-Mo., indicated Bush may have some trouble getting some conservatives on board with his overall plan.

"While I appreciate the president's willingness to tackle big problems, I have real concerns about moving forward with a guest worker program or a plan to address those currently in the United States illegally until we have adequately addressed our serious border security problems," Blunt said.

Bush said the National Guard troops would fill in temporarily while the nation's Border Patrol force is expanded. He asked Congress to add 6,000 more Border Patrol agents by the end of his presidency and to add 6,700 more beds so illegal immigrants can be detained while waiting for hearings to determine that they can be sent home.

For many years, the government has not had enough detention space to hold illegal immigrants, so they were released into society and most did not return for their court date. "This practice, called catch and release, is unacceptable and we will end it," Bush said

The Border Patrol would remain responsible for catching and detaining illegal immigrants, with National Guard troops providing intelligence gathering, surveillance and other administrative support. Yet the National Guard troops would still be armed and authorized to use force to protect themselves, said Bush homeland security adviser Fran Townsend.

They are to come from the four border states - California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas - but those states' governors may also seek Guard troops from other states. Reaction was mixed among the nation's governors.

California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said troops might provide short-term relief but he did not believe border protection was an appropriate role for the National Guard. California has thousands of Guard troops in Iraq and might need them in case of earthquakes, floods or other emergencies, he said.

"So if you have 6,000 in Iraq and send another 6,000 to the border, what do we have left?" Schwarzenegger asked.

But another Republican border state governor, Rick Perry of Texas, said he was glad the administration had decided the Guard had a role to play along the border. "We have the ability to multitask," Perry said.

The White House hopes deployments to the border will begin in early June.

Many congressional Republicans said they supported Bush's plan to use National Guard troops at the border. But he ran into criticism from Democrats and some other Republicans.

"Democrats are willing to support any reasonable plan that will secure our borders, including deploying National Guard troops," said Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill. "But Americans don't want a plan that's been cobbled together to win political favor. This cannot turn into another long-term military deployment with no clear plan."

Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid said Bush "got off to a good start tonight, but now he must stand up to right-wing members of his own party who are working to block Senate action." He called on Bush to "denounce the misguided approach of House Republicans" who won passage of a a tough immigration bill that would erect fences along the Mexican border and treat people who sneak across as felons to be deported.

Bush said the nation has more than doubled the size of the Border Patrol during his presidency and has sent home about 6 million people entering the United States illegally. Still, he said, that has not been enough.

"For decades, the United States has not been in complete control of its borders," the president said. "As a result, many who want to work in our economy have been able to sneak across our border, and millions have stayed."

He called for enactment of a guest worker program to allow immigrants to take low-paying jobs, and he said employers must be held to account for hiring illegal immigrants. He said that a tamperproof identification card for workers would "leave employers with no excuse" for violating the law.

And he stressed that those who want to earn citizenship should have to assimilate into society, learn English, pay fines for breaking the law and pay back taxes.

"What I have just described is not amnesty," Bush said. "It is a way for those who have broken the law to pay their debt to society and demonstrate the character that makes a good citizen."

The president's call for tougher border security is part of a broader plan to overhaul a system that he has described as inhumane, with desperate foreigners risking their lives for a chance to earn U.S. wages. The issue raises emotions on all sides, with many Americans and influential conservatives in Congress angry that foreigners are taking jobs and draining resources across the country.

The White House hopes that the tougher security will be enough to get House conservatives to support the work permits and citizenship proposals that they have been opposed to. A bill that passed the House last year ignored those ideas and instead would increase criminal penalties for illegal immigrants and construct 700 miles of fencing.

Bush addressed some of his comments to lawmakers, calling on the Senate to act by the end of the month so a compromise can be reached with the House. "I want to speak directly to Members of the House and the Senate: An immigration reform bill needs to be comprehensive, because all elements of this problem must be addressed together, or none of them will be solved at all."

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[Mr.S14]

Mexicans will still find ways to sneak in

I DID!!:Ownedd:

[jdm_s14_zenki]

You cant please everyone...some people like the border build up (cons) some people hate it (libs) no matter what, no one will ever agree. IMO Americans are losing jobs to Illegals because they work for less $ and we all know that. This will destroy our economy. Since Americans are Legal USA citizens, Americans should have the right to have a job over an Illegal, but business owners do not think that way, therefore Bush has to enforce this, so the Americans have first dibs. When i say Illegal, i do not mean mexican, vietnamese, canadian, or any one race. I mean ANYONE that is here in the USA illegally. There are green cards and work permits/visas u know..The USA has been more then leniant on this issue and it has been WAAAAY overly taken advantage of.

[S13SilviaGirl]

There is also the military. A LOT of people every year gain citizenship through HONERABLE military service. Personally, I think this is a great way to show support of the US while still gaining citizenship legally. Plus, it gives them a lot better living than that of a migrant worker or for working under the counter for less wages.

[yokotas13]

You know, i really dont see the need for people to argue about what our president is doing.
Either way, someone is gonna bitch....no matter what happens.

[jdm_s14_zenki]

There is also the military. A LOT of people every year gain citizenship through HONERABLE military service. Personally, I think this is a great way to show support of the US while still gaining citizenship legally. Plus, it gives them a lot better living than that of a migrant worker or for working under the counter for less wages.

i think this is a real touchy subject. people escape their own countries for the individual freedoms we have here, which is understandable. and thats why there is america, but you gotta do it by americas rules. thats all they ask. my mom came here from Korea, as well as her whole family, and they all gained their citizenship with no problems. while my dad is white and he was born here, hes got nothing to worry about, and neither do I.

You know, i really dont see the need for people to argue about what our president is doing.
Either way, someone is gonna bitch....no matter what happens.
no one is arguing, just expressing opinions in a debate.

[Lost_DriFter]

ehh i just hope bush is out of that position soon though i think hes got 2 yrs ugh prison break rules....
bush sucks
im hungry
and isnt there a way to get him out of presidency earlier b4 his erm is up??
if it wasnt for him none of this **** wuld be happening

[ALTRNTV]

and isnt there a way to get him out of presidency earlier b4 his erm is up??


Impeachment. It will not happen though.


if it wasnt for him none of this **** wuld be happening

Care to enlighten us on this shit that is happening?

[yokotas13]

i think this is a real touchy subject. people escape their own countries for the individual freedoms we have here, which is understandable. and thats why there is america, but you gotta do it by americas rules. thats all they ask. my mom came here from Korea, as well as her whole family, and they all gained their citizenship with no problems. while my dad is white and he was born here, hes got nothing to worry about, and neither do I.


no one is arguing, just expressing opinions in a debate.
it still like winning the special olympics...need i finish the rest. its wasted bandwith for somethign that will never come to a conclusion

[S13SilviaGirl]

^^he is just stating his opinion, wich is allowed.

Understandable on them leaving their countries, but, with the military (granted it isnt for everyone) it does provide them another option to US citizenship. I think it is after 3 years (I could be wrong) they are eligiable for the process. Then after their 4-5 years they are free to go and live as they choose. Plus, there are no application fees or anything. It is pretty much free to them, also, after they are citizens, they are able to bring their spouse/children to the states and in some cases ill family members are also able to come.

[DuffMan]

Ugh, this stupid address screwed up all my TiVoing for the evening. Worst president ever!

[S13SilviaGirl]

^^All the more reason for everyone to vote..

[D1champ]

EDIT: I love immigrants!

[OptionZero]

It's a problem when illegal immigrants commit crimes (murder, stealing, etc) and we have to prosecute or catch people that aren't paying taxes. They also occupy prisons and housing that should be going to American citizens.

The important thing to note is that this isn't a racial issue: playing that card is tire and shortsighted. Illegal immigration is illegal because it violates the law, not because of WHICH country you came from (any country thats not the US would make it illegal).

Lastly, just because people bitch doesn't mean they're right. Just because people WILL bitch doesn't mean the government stops trying to function.

Debate and disagreement is fine, but ineptitude and complacency are not. It takes a man to cut through the debate and decide which side is right; anyone can give up and say it's too complicated or useless to bother thinking about it.

Oh, and mindless bashing of any state official is getting tired. This is a democracy, if you have a problem it wasn't caused by one person, but rather a combination of officials, your fellow citizens, and your own self.

Now if it were a dictatorship, you could freely blame one guy for fucking up.

[axiomatik]

Here's the thing that I don't get. Conservatives want to shut down the border. Their plan is to just build a huge double wall and put more people and technology along the border. But the border is HUGE, so this costs loads of money. Now, back in the 80's, when Reagan gave amnesty to to all the illegals, he also signed stricter laws and penalties for employers who hire illegals. But these laws aren't being enforced. This is why so many people are crossing the border illegally, because it is easy to find jobs. If the INS would just enforce the existing laws and crack down on employers, we would have a lot fewer illegal immigrants because they would have a lot harder time getting a job. Plus, this is much cheaper than building the Great Wall of Mexico and posting 70,000 people to guard it.

Also, to those people who say, "why don't they just follow the legal process, my aunt so-and-so came here from England and had no problem", You don't know how the system works (not trying to be offensive, here, just informative). The immigration system is based on quotas. It says that a certain number of people are allowed to immigrate to America per year. I think it is around 140,000 people. However, no more than 7% of that 140,000 can come from any one country. So that means that (based on the 140,000 figure) only 9800 people are allowed to enter the country from Mexico LEGALLY each year. That isn't very many. So in countries like Korea, England, etc, there aren't many people looking to move here, so they don't run into the quota problem. The quota problem also exists in India and China. There are loads of highly skilled engineers there that want to move to the USA. And there are plenty of US companies that want to hire them because they cannot find anyone here in the states to fill the position (the US graduates fewer and fewer engineers every year). But they are stuck in a wating list a decade or more long because of the quota system.

[SiI40sx]

ugh god.... we never had this problem when hitler was around...

[jdm_s14_zenki]

we dont need to kill anyone, just stop them from crossing our borders. Hitler thought for some reason that he needed to kill everyone and take over everything.

[EchoOfSilence]

^^All the more reason for everyone to vote..
'voting' (or lack thereof) is what got him into office in the first place.

Anyway, it's not like voting in presidential elections directly places people in office. Electoral college does what we thought we were doing. nice facad.


Optionzero... if some immigrants were given some of the rights they ask for, i'm sure they'd be more than glad to service the country (taxes, jury duty, etc.) I know my family is.

[SimpleSexy180]

Hitler thought for some reason that he needed to kill everyone and take over everything.

used the germans like slaves, and wanted to create his perfect world.

[jdm_s14_zenki]

'voting' (or lack thereof) is what got him into office in the first place.

Anyway, it's not like voting in presidential elections directly places people in office. Electoral college does what we thought we were doing. nice facad.


Optionzero... if some immigrants were given some of the rights they ask for, i'm sure they'd be more than glad to service the country (taxes, jury duty, etc.) I know my family is.
We vote for the representatives that have electoral votes, they in turn use the electoral votes to vote for the president. in the end, the people vote but indirectly.

[EchoOfSilence]

We vote for the representatives that have electoral votes, they in turn use the electoral votes to vote for the president. in the end, the people vote but indirectly.
the state legislature appoints them, and then after the election the states go into 'winner-take-all' mode. bs.

[drift freaq]

ok guys we all seem to be missing a bigger part of the immigration picture. Mexico is fucked up. The Mexican goverment is corrupt, they rip off there own people big time. Vincente Fox encourages illegal immigration, so that the illegals will send money back to Mexico in the form American dollars. A big part of the problem is Mexico is not willing to reform. Its not willing to pay wage earners what they deserve and in turn that forces them to look and travel north to the U.S., to get paid more than they would ear in Mexico, even at the substandard wages illegals work for here. Fix the problem in Mexico and you solve a major portion of the problem. If people want to immigrate here become legal, learn our language and work to forward our economy. I am all for it. This is a country of Immigrants! Legal Immigrants! Who came through Ellis Island like my grandparents. We do have a problem with people coming here illegally and then demanding citizenship. You come here legally we give you citizenship. You want to work here we will consider giving you citizenship but don't come here illegally and then demand citizenship. Do it through proper channels the right way. If we need you then maybe we should consider amnesty but don't ask us to learn your language learn English just like my parents had to do just like my Grandparents had to do. There it is folks all in a nutshell.

[ALTRNTV]

^
That man speaks truth.

[SiI40sx]

im all for that, I wasnt born in the states, came here legally and legally became an American Citizen, I dont support illegals. Fix mexico fix a big part of the problem is true

[kognition]

I am very strong against illegal immigration. There is no need for further "nation building" in this country. Our President isn't even a retard, he is just a "tard".
I think i'm gonna vote for the independant party this time around. I am so sick of
both mainstream parties at this point.
I really think the "Minute Men" (http://www.minutemanproject.com/) and their cross country tour are spreading fear in Washington of a severe
revolt by the people that do not want to give citizenship to illegal aliens. I think this is forcing Bush to do these speeches because he knows what is about to happen. Total revolt.
The USA is more of a racial melting pot than any country on the planet, which squashes the theory that it is a racial issue.

[TheSquidd]

Best part is, Mexico wants to sue us for making it harder for illegals to cross the border. :goyou:

[jdm_s14_zenki]

ok guys we all seem to be missing a bigger part of the immigration picture. Mexico is fucked up. The Mexican goverment is corrupt, they rip off there own people big time. Vincente Fox encourages illegal immigration, so that the illegals will send money back to Mexico in the form American dollars. A big part of the problem is Mexico is not willing to reform. Its not willing to pay wage earners what they deserve and in turn that forces them to look and travel north to the U.S., to get paid more than they would ear in Mexico, even at the substandard wages illegals work for here. Fix the problem in Mexico and you solve a major portion of the problem. If people want to immigrate here become legal, learn our language and work to forward our economy. I am all for it. This is a country of Immigrants! Legal Immigrants! Who came through Ellis Island like my grandparents. We do have a problem with people coming here illegally and then demanding citizenship. You come here legally we give you citizenship. You want to work here we will consider giving you citizenship but don't come here illegally and then demand citizenship. Do it through proper channels the right way. If we need you then maybe we should consider amnesty but don't ask us to learn your language learn English just like my parents had to do just like my Grandparents had to do. There it is folks all in a nutshell.
amen!

---------

Best part is, Mexico wants to sue us for making it harder for illegals to cross the border.

Well then we should blow Mexico up to stop them from smuggling drugs across the border. Theyre even trying to legalize drugs in small quantities...lol

Not that i hate mexicans cus i dont, i have many mexican friends. But Mexico is an unethical shithole of a government. Corrupt, evil.

[SiI40sx]

the government shouldve invaded Mexico instead of Iraq

[kognition]

Vicente Fox is coming to So Cal next week. It's getting interesting by the day now.

[L1ama]

the government shouldve invaded Mexico instead of Iraq
Whats the point... Are there even any Mexicans left in Mexico? :fruit:

[OptionZero]

nbridley hit on an important piont:

you can't control the border with ANY amount of national guard, people will ALWAYS try to get in here as long as the situation remains as it is (democracy and jobs)

to stop illegal immigration you must control the supply of jobs. Make it expensive to hire illegal immigration and companies will stop doing it.

Proposal:
If you want to work here, you need to be documented extensively. You keep your job, you get some modicum of government recognition, and you can stay as long as you have a visa (presumably with some sort of fee).

Any employer caught hiring undocumented alien is fined, AND the person is deported. You have to demonstrate a willingness to deport otherwise any sanctions are pointless and hollow.

In combination with this, you also do need some force on the border, as well as some non-corrupt way of identifying whos legal and who's not.

Workers that stay X amount of time (7 years?) get a chance at citizenship (not guaranteed), and DO need to show some commitment to being somewhat american (minimal english, basic knowledge of american system). If you are in the army, that time is shorter (3.5 years?), with even more bonuses for time served in the armed forces if there's a war (gee...iraq? korea? iran?)

But enough with the giving them free shit stuff plz

[OptionZero]

echo: if you're willing to do all that stuff, more power to you. I appluad you for showing more enthusiasm than many americans do for their OWN country. Now go apply legally for citizenship.


FOx encouraging illegal immigration? Where's a CIA hit squad when you need one?

The mexicans should overturn their own government and install someone halfway brighter. I'm sure we have plenty of skill formeting rebellion in governments we don't like (middle east?), why not do it to mexico?

[Jonnie Fraz]

Lots of good points on the immigration issues. My boss immagrated here in the 70's from Germany, he could not speek a word of English. He got a job doing what others were not willing to do. Learned English, got his citizenship, and now one of the owners of the company I work for.
I agree that we need to enforce the laws that are in place for the employers, making it tougher to get jobs. If there is no money or no jobs then there is no reason to immigrate illegaly. In doing this we must be prepared for the reprocussions, in that alot of immigrants are willing to do any job to make money, where allot of Americans feel that they are above certain jobs, or can make more on welfare/disability.
I also agree we as a whole need to vote in order to be allowed to complain.
Lots of good food for thought.

[axiomatik]

For everyone who says they should just immigrate legally, let me give you an idea of how long that would take. There are currently an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants in the US. Lets say 6 million are from Mexico. Each year, no more than 7% of all immigrants can come from one country. I looked up the quota, that translates to 25,620 immigrants from ONE country per year. So only 25,620 Mexicans can legally come to this country each year. For the 6 million illegal immigrants to have all come here legally, it would have taken 234 years. See, it's easy to immigrate here legally!

[OptionZero]

thats right, the situation IS like that

but that does not excuse illegal immigration, not does that mean these people deserve to be given citizenship and life here on a silver platter (metaphorically speaking)

All of what you said simply means we should reform that immigration system and root out corruption AND/OR fix the Mexican state

Again: a flawed immigration system does not excuse illegal immigration

No one obligated a spot in America.

[SiI40sx]

Unfortunately its not just the job hunters that are immigrating, its also the drug dealers, prostitution, etc. What needs to happen is the southern country does need to be fixed because we dont want this country becoming a 90% spanish speaking do we? This country has been a melting pot all the way to its roots.

[Phlip]

When I read this thread and saw "Presidential Address", I immediately thought of:
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW in Washington, D.C.

... you know, where the president lives for us to overpay him to underwork for a few years of their lives?

[SiI40sx]

hahaha your an idiot, that was pretty funny though

On another note, doesnt the president NOT make a lot a year? only like 60k I believe? I heard this from an unknown source (becuz I dont remember who I heard it from) something like, its not the income that the president makes but all the perks and lobbyist offers they recieve that makes them look rich??

[ALTRNTV]

hahaha your an idiot, that was pretty funny though

Not a good thing to say to a moderator.

[SiI40sx]

Not a good thing to say to a moderator.

dont be such a kiss ass, I wasnt insulting him. I was complimenting on what he said, I found it humorous.

No hard feelings right philip?? :D

[Phlip]

No, I would have pinked you without hesitation if I had taken it the wrong way

[EchoOfSilence]

echo: if you're willing to do all that stuff, more power to you. I appluad you for showing more enthusiasm than many americans do for their OWN country. Now go apply legally for citizenship.


FOx encouraging illegal immigration? Where's a CIA hit squad when you need one?

The mexicans should overturn their own government and install someone halfway brighter. I'm sure we have plenty of skill formeting rebellion in governments we don't like (middle east?), why not do it to mexico?
woah there, I was born here, lol.

Anyway, Mexico has been in rebellion for DECADES. They've stormed the federal office a bunch of times, there are guerillas fighting for what they thing is just in Chiapas, as other things are happening. Don't think the majority in Mexico don't want change. I have friends of the family that live in Mexico that need to MOVE across the country just to find a menial job. Mind you, these are college educated people. Jobs are scarce because those that hold office do not want to reform... because of their greed. The rich-poor dichotomy there is 3X what it is here. Some store owners don't hire you if you're not a sub-25 looking girl.

Things are ridiculous over there. They're actually investigating the oil companies that Vicente Fox owns (ironic, eh?) for embezzlement. If the US were to take them down and establish another one of its puppet gov'ts there, it would probably be around the same, however.

Anyway, I totally agree with Dave (driftfreaq) if you haven't noticed by now.

[jdm_s14_zenki]

And thats why the USA is the best country in the HISTORY of mankind. And we aim to keep it that way.
-IMO

[EchoOfSilence]

And thats why the USA is the best country in the HISTORY of mankind. And we aim to keep it that way.
-IMO
Shit is currupt here too, don't get it twisted.

[jdm_s14_zenki]

Shit is currupt here too, don't get it twisted.
i dont got it "twisted"
live in another country...im confident that you'll come crawling back to the USA

Every government has corruption. Human nature.

[ALTRNTV]

I agree. There's not one country I would rather live in, than the US.

[Phlip]

I agree. There's not one country I would rather live in, than the US.
You know what?
I could wake up every morning and complain about 20-50 things about this country that bug me endlessly, but I STILL agree with you. I can't name anywhere else I would rather live in that same burst of thought, no shit.

[4thHorse]

Canada doesn't seem that bad, but I know how you feel. I can see myself any were else, but CA. Well maybe Hawaii(yes I know it's part of the US), my buddy from Hawaii said I should have no problem finding work there. I've lived in Norcal all my life and as far back as I can remember immigration has always been a huge issue. Also I don't vote for presidents, but I do vote for everything else. Bush and Gore election of 2000 was enough proof to me that every vote doesn't count. I don't think voting for independent is really voting for president.

[kognition]

I think Independent or any party other than Dem's and Repub's is becoming more
or a way to rebel than anything. Both sides are so far away from reality. You see all these republican cats going to prison for greed? Abramoff (Lobbyist) and Congressman Duke Cunningham? More to follow this summer because Abramoff cut a deal to testify against other Congressmen he has done dirty deals with.
It's like a realy bad dream where everything that can go wrong is going that way. Including kissing the asses of illegal protesters. A stupid President that would rather be home playing Play Station, and a V.P. that shoots people in the face on hunting trips.

[axiomatik]

When I read this thread and saw "Presidential Address", I immediately thought of:
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW in Washington, D.C.

... you know, where the president lives for us to overpay him to underwork for a few years of their lives?

Hey now..... as President Bush tells us all the time, it's a HARD job. And just to keep up with it, he has to work 24/7.































24 hours a week, 7 months a year! :rofl:

btw, the president makes $400,000 a year. The funny things is, back in 1789, the president made $25,000 a year. Can you imagine how much money that would be today?

[S13SilviaGirl]

You know what?
I could wake up every morning and complain about 20-50 things about this country that bug me endlessly, but I STILL agree with you. I can't name anywhere else I would rather live in that same burst of thought, no shit.


I can, Australia....yeah baby! Only other place I would even think of moving to!

[BigVinnie]

The fence was put up for a reason. Maybe it's time to add an electrical current to it..... J/K thats inhuman.
The problem with letting people south of the border in specifically is that they hinder our medical system. For one I work in the general construction field and my dad is a contractor. Now lets say that some one south of the boarder that isn't hurt claims workmans comp, now they have become a leech in our country and money more than likely is getting sent back to the south as well. Beyond that claiming there hurt and going back out to sit on the corner to collect more TAX FREE money!!!! Mind you that illegals don't pay taxes, while the majority of those visiting from other countries do. It's not just the people that are south of the border who are at fault, but it's also the slime ball shit head contractors that low balll bids to hire these people, they just took away from people that pay for things at the average expense. Either way you look at it, it doesn't work for hard working americans. If workmans comp rates go up, the fact is I make less money an hour. Right now I make $26.00 an hour, but because the workman comp rates have raised over 300% due to fraudulent claims I am now making less money i8n an inflated economy (I should be making $30.00 not $26.00) due to the fact that my employer pays higher rates. This is true especially if you look at workmans comp rates in the state of california, and look at the tremendous number of inexperienced illegals that file..... So in the long run the government loses additional tax dollars since I make less, and I inevitably make less, nobody of legal status wins in this situation. People are to stupid to figure this economical strategy out and wo0uld rather give up the additional on average $5000.00 a year that could of been in there own pockets, it's not smart and puts us more on a path of socialism more than anything.
Also keep in mind if we chose to make it easy for people south of the border to become legal citizens, then next thing you know we have provided to much lienency and all of Mexico and south america will want to be a U.S citizen as well, (that can't happen). So we might as well just own Mexico, but that obviously won't happen. So as a given it just can't be easy to become a U.S. citizen. Therefore there needs to be some form of established control with rules and regulations.
I don't mind that certain illegals want to be legal citizens, but here is the problem. They can't become a citizen unless they have paid taxes, now really how many people south of the boarder do you know that paid taxes and make uder $3.00 an hour. They don't and now it becomes more of a snowball effect.
I'm not a hater, to each there own, but maybe instead of people fleeing to our country because there's is so fucked up, maybe they need to take a stand for there people instead of running from the problem, and correct there own government. Our country is a melting pot and the fact is as far as economic stability is concerned we don't have room. As much as I don't like president Bush, I do agree with some if not many of his idea's and this is one of them.
Fact is we don't see canadians from up North runnin across our boarder do we.No because atleast Canadians bring some sort of economic stability to where they do not hinder or leech upon our system as a whole group of people....

[Nan Desu Ka?!]

I agree with a lot of people in this thread.

1. Mexico is a FUCKED UP place, politically/economically.

2. We have a HUGE illegal immigrant problem that is not easily solved any way you look at it. A wall will not work, making it easier to get legal will not work and lead to a MASSIVE influx of immigrants, which we simply cannot do.

3. The rules and regulations on corperations hiring illegals are NOT being inforced. We need this to happen if there are to be any concequences for corperations hiring at sub-minimum wage.

4. I am half mexican, my great grand parents legally immigrated not speak ANY english. They got jobs in texas, learned english, learned our political system and saved money to make their own business. They payed taxes and voted. This is not always possible, but I think it should be MANDATORY that immigrants learn the language, pay taxes etc. Im tired of us giving away money to illegal immigrants in terms of health care/workers comp, etc. That is money our LEGAL citizens are getting robbed of.

5. When illegals come over and make money, they send it back to Mexico. I know first hand. It is fact and the Mexican gov't loves it. Hence Vicente supporting illegal immigration to the US

6. Another thing that really bugs the hell outta me is illegal immigrants protesting for more rights. MORE rights?! Rights of what exactly? Legal citizens? HELLO, you have to be LEGAL to get the rights our citizens have. Basic human rights are all you are given as far as im concerned, anything beyond those rights must be earned through LEGAL immigration.

Subject: Immigration Laws
1. If you migrate to this county, you must speak the native language.
2. You have to be a professional or an investor. No unskilled workers allowed.
3. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools, no special ballots for elections, all government business will be conducted in our language.
4. Foreigners will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they are here.
5. Foreigners will NEVER be able to hold political office.
6. Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no food stamps, no health care or other government assistance programs.
7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.
8. If foreigners do come and want to buy land that will be okay, BUT options will be restricted. You are not allowed waterfront property. That is reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.
9. Foreigners may not protest; no demonstrations, no waving a foreign flag, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our President or his policies, if you do you will be sent home.
10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be hunted down and sent straight to jail.

Harsh, you think?
The above laws happen to be the immigration laws of . . . Mexico!

Still think Mexico doesn't know whats going on?

I almost NEVER agree with Pres. Bush, but I have the right to becuase I didn't VOTE for him. It is EVERY Americans privilege to vote, and it's very very very sad that so few citizens do... yet MANY complain about the way our government is ran. To those of you I say this, You have absolutly NO right to complain unless you take on your responsibility as a contributing member of our society and VOTE. The Greeks had a word for those who did not participate in the Society, Community and State/country politics : "IDIOT"

I do not know what the solution is, but I'm more that willing to support ANYONE who has a decent idea. It will not be easy, but its a big enough issue that it warants WAY more in-depth study, as OptionZero stated.

Quick idea... how about taking those jobs illegal immigrants use to supposedly support the economy and making our incarcerated population do it? I know that doesn't begin to cover everything, but it's a valid idea.

/rant.

[OptionZero]

I heard a pretty good point today:

There's people forced to migrate to California from other states because of Katrina. Some people are denied housing or medical services because...yep, illegal immigrants taking up space and money.

Is that right? No offense against illegal immigrants, but families and children shouldn't have to suffer because of people who hopped a fence, and i'd give them priority if i had the power to make a decision.

[EchoOfSilence]

I heard a pretty good point today:

There's people forced to migrate to California from other states because of Katrina. Some people are denied housing or medical services because...yep, illegal immigrants taking up space and money.

Is that right? No offense against illegal immigrants, but families and children shouldn't have to suffer because of people who hopped a fence, and i'd give them priority if i had the power to make a decision.
? It's not like immigrants are taking up EVERY bed and are using up EVERY last penny. There's room. I think the real issue is whether or not they're being turned away for other reasons... honest or not.

[OptionZero]

No, they're not taking up every bed and every penny everywhere, but in SOME PLACES, I would have no problem believing that local municialities were forced to turn down some Katrina survivors specifically and exclusively because of illegal immigration.

Remember, illegal immigration strains all aspects of society: public safety, law enforcement, as well as jobs, housing, medical, education.


Here's one thing everyone must realize:
You cannot help everyone. Period. We may want to, we may hope to, but the fundamental fact is that the United States, California, your city, will never be able to support and help every individual.

Is that right? Perhaps not, but it is reality. The faster that realization occurs, the less bullshit we have to put up with.

Trying to help everyone is a path to self destruction.

[L1ama]

Who cares if its right or wrong, who would do all the work in America if it wasn't for Mexicans, I'm sure you wouldn't wash my car for 25 cents.

[EchoOfSilence]

Who cares if its right or wrong, who would do all the work in America if it wasn't for Mexicans, I'm sure you wouldn't wash my car for 25 cents.
Or run companies like Alienware, Tradestation Securities, Proftech, Recourse Tech, Refense Tech., Network architects, Matterhorn Capital.... you want me to go on?

You're really asking for it, aren't you. I hope you're having fun.

[Nan Desu Ka?!]

Who cares if its right or wrong, who would do all the work in America if it wasn't for Mexicans, I'm sure you wouldn't wash my car for 25 cents.
STOP THE RACISM

ffs man, just stop. I cannot belive you are still un-banned...

lol Echo... my bro has an Alienware >.<

Oh you forgot CompUSA! It's owned by Carlos Slim... one of the richest men in Mexico. Cash flow business too. In other words, CompUSA never takes out bank loans. So they dont pay intrest or fees in American banks... so there is no investment in this country besides regular taxes...

[U12Bluebird]

Edited as requested.

[Phlip]

Why don't we ship them all to Spain?

They speak Spanish and they hold cultural ties to the Spaniards, not to mention they were the sluts and bitches of their Spaniard masters (flamesuit on lol), so it makes perfect sense for them to flock to Spain.

Now if only they could fly...

P.S. I'm brown so don't pull the racist card on me.
That would be just fucking gorgeous if Spain was as close as, say, Canada. The fact of the matter is that there would be great expense in transport and arranging to send illegals to Spain, and who is to say that they actually want to go there? Are the things that make them want to immigrate to the US present in Spain?

I can't speak from experience, I don't speak enough Spanish to want to go to Spain, or back to Mexico, EVER.
The fact of the matter is that sending them to Spain is just plain and simply an assinine idea.

[EchoOfSilence]

That's retarded, I'm sorry

[L1ama]

How the hell am I being racist, I give Mexicans props for how much work they do, when I go to my friends house there is always land scapers, we buy them pizza and stuff, how the fuck am I racist? My point is what difference does it make if they are here illegally or legally, I personally don't care. BTW I'm not talking directly to every single Mexican out there, I don't know why you take offense, you shouldn't unless your an illegal.

[drift freaq]

How the hell am I being racist, I give Mexicans props for how much work they do, when I go to my friends house there is always land scapers, we buy them pizza and stuff, how the fuck am I racist? My point is what difference does it make if they are here illegally or legally, I personally don't care. BTW I'm not talking directly to every single Mexican out there, I don't know why you take offense, you shouldn't unless your an illegal.

Your general attitude appears racist, even if you think your not. Your whole statement of who else would do the work.
Your statement of, we buy them pizza and stuff, while it may seem cool, also could be seen as condescending. In effect, your taking pity on them in a demeaning way.
It matters big time, that they are here illegally. If they get in a car accident, who pays? We do in higher insurance rates. Due to the fact that most illegals are unisured and usually have no license but drive anyways.
Who pays for bilingual stuff at the DMV and other places, because these people do not learn english and want us to communicate with them in their language? We do, as taxpayers. Who pays for these people injuries, when they get hurt and go to the local hospital to get care but can't pay so its charity? We do in higher health insurance costs.
The country cannot afford to support people that are not contributing to the system. We also cannot just give these people carte blanche citizenship just because they are already here. Our current infrastructure is already overtaxed as it is. If we allowed all the illegals citizenship our country would go broke, before they could start contributing to make up for the expenditures.
If you do not understand the complexities of the issue, you should not even be participating in this discussion. From your statements you really do not understand all of this.

[Nan Desu Ka?!]

Your general attitude appears racist, even if you think your not. Your whole statement of who else would do the work.
Your statement of, we buy them pizza and stuff, while it may seem cool, also could be seen as condescending. In effect, your taking pity on them in a demeaning way.
It matters big time, that they are here illegally. If they get in a car accident, who pays? We do in higher insurance rates. Due to the fact that most illegals are unisured and usually have no license but drive anyways.
Who pays for bilingual stuff at the DMV and other places, because these people do not learn english and want us to communicate with them in their language? We do, as taxpayers. Who pays for these people injuries, when they get hurt and go to the local hospital to get care but can't pay so its charity? We do in higher health insurance costs.
The country cannot afford to support people that are not contributing to the system. We also cannot just give these people carte blanche citizenship just because they are already here. Our current infrastructure is already overtaxed as it is. If we allowed all the illegals citizenship our country would go broke, before they could start contributing to make up for the expenditures.
If you do not understand the complexities of the issue, you should not even be participating in this discussion. From your statements you really do not understand all of this.
Bravo.
I was just about to comment with almost every idea you already said.

Llama, you have no place in this discussion. I'm guessing you are either under 18 years of age, or you do not participate in your community politicaly or otherwise. So you really DON'T understand the complexity of this issue.

The fact that you think its "cool" to buy them "pizza and stuff" is incredibly demeening. Your whole attitude towards "mexicans" is condecending and uncalled for.

That is the reason I am taking offense. NOT becuase I am illegal... I was born here and realize how lucky I am to have been. You seem to take that for granted.

Dave, I agree with the bilingual stuff. If I went to Mexico (or any other country) and demanded that someone speak to me in MY native tongue at a government agency (or anywhere else for that matter) I would be laughed at. Why on earth do (illegal)immigrants belive WE have to cater the THEIR needs. If you are going to come here legally or otherwise, LEARN THE DAMN LANGUAGE. It's the least you can do untill you start to contribute to the country you are immigrating to.

Im not going to go to Japan and expect their DMV to speak to me in english...

[L1ama]

Your general attitude appears racist, even if you think your not. Your whole statement of who else would do the work.
Your statement of, we buy them pizza and stuff, while it may seem cool, also could be seen as condescending. In effect, your taking pity on them in a demeaning way.
It matters big time, that they are here illegally. If they get in a car accident, who pays? We do in higher insurance rates. Due to the fact that most illegals are unisured and usually have no license but drive anyways.
Who pays for bilingual stuff at the DMV and other places, because these people do not learn english and want us to communicate with them in their language? We do, as taxpayers. Who pays for these people injuries, when they get hurt and go to the local hospital to get care but can't pay so its charity? We do in higher health insurance costs.
The country cannot afford to support people that are not contributing to the system. We also cannot just give these people carte blanche citizenship just because they are already here. Our current infrastructure is already overtaxed as it is. If we allowed all the illegals citizenship our country would go broke, before they could start contributing to make up for the expenditures.
If you do not understand the complexities of the issue, you should not even be participating in this discussion. From your statements you really do not understand all of this.
I see your point, but I guess on the east coast we do not have too much of a problem like that, there isn't a lot of illegals that I see here, me and my friend buy 2 pies, one for them one for us when they come to land scape at his house, you can't expect white folks to do the land scaping, I know I wouldn't.
Basically, it doesn't affect me as much as it affects you I suppose, thats why I can care less, and see them as useful people and don't mind their stay here.
Well, sorry if I offended anyone, I'm going to bail out of this thread now.
:ughd:

[S13SilviaGirl]

I see your point, but I guess on the east coast we do not have too much of a problem like that, there isn't a lot of illegals that I see here, me and my friend buy 2 pies, one for them one for us when they come to land scape at his house, you can't expect white folks to do the land scaping, I know I wouldn't.
Basically, it doesn't affect me as much as it affects you I suppose, thats why I can care less, and see them as useful people and don't mind their stay here.
Well, sorry if I offended anyone, I'm going to bail out of this thread now.
:ughd:


OK enough is enough... I tried talking to you, being nice, and tried to explain...but you sir are clueless. WTF..you "can't expect white folks to do landscaping" is BS. I know a lot of white people that do landscaping...in socal.
The other comments throughout zilvia are just as bad. Please, educate yourself. You may not seem to come across a certain way, but the complete lack of thought structure makes it incomprehendable. Pinked.

[Llamayo]

How the hell am I being racist, I give Mexicans props for how much work they do, when I go to my friends house there is always land scapers, we buy them pizza and stuff, how the fuck am I racist? My point is what difference does it make if they are here illegally or legally, I personally don't care. BTW I'm not talking directly to every single Mexican out there, I don't know why you take offense, you shouldn't unless your an illegal.
You racist motherfucker, glad you are banned.
:mephfawk:

You can try perm banning me, I'll just make a new username.
:fruit:

[Phlip]

You racist motherfucker, glad you are banned.
:mephfawk:

You can try perm banning me, I'll just make a new username.
:fruit:
Nice try there, buddy, you just got your pinked screen name permabanned, and I will ban this one as well.


... permanently, and don't get your IPs clipped too

[Llamaisracist]

Ban this one too

[Llamaisracist]

you will have a lot of fun, i can keep making them

[Llamaisracist]

fact is i can always make one that doesn say llama on it ull never know gg

[BigVinnie]

fact is i can always make one that doesn say llama on it ull never know gg

Actually Zilvia mods are smarter than you think jack ass, all they do is look up your I.P address. You have to live somewhere ass hole.....
You sir suck at life and your existence is pitifull.
You P.Med me asking how do I make $26 an hour in the construction bizz...Easy bitch it was given to me like a hand me down since my dad is a contractor LAME ass, I know enough to be a leader not a follower. One day I will be the contractor, and I will not stoop as low as you to hire illegal work, that sucks the life out of our economy. I was raised the right way, you sir just suck, you are beneath me....
I do grunt work but one day I will lead the people that do the grunt work, learn to respect it bitch...

[nistech]

Illegal immigration puts pressure on public schools and hospitals...strains state and local budgets...and brings crime into our communities. These are real problems, yet we must remember that the vast majority of illegal immigrants are decent people who work hard, support their families, practice their faith, and lead responsible lives..

First, the United States must secure its borders. Our objective is straightforward: The border should be open to trade and lawful immigration- and shut to illegal immigrants, as well as criminals, drug dealers, and terrorists....

America can be a lawful society and a welcoming one at the same time."

- President Bush

[Gnnr]

I had a very crazy idea when I wask joking around with my friends and I know I'm making this overly simple. But lets just take over Mexico, and protect the Guatemalen and Belize border instead. The wall would be much smaller, and we can employ the Mexicans to build it.

Here's a map to get an idea of the border sizes:
http://www.only-maps.com/mexico-central-america-map.jpg