What the EFR turbos should have been - Page 6 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

LuckyX2 · 05-02-2014, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Def

I wonder what the hold-up is? Seems like they should be using the same housing casting as the xx58 B1 turbos and machining for the slightly larger turbine.

At least they have some turbos coming in...

The 7163 is the first of the B1 framed models to come in a twin scroll iirc. So they would need new castings for that but not the single scroll.

PoorMans180SX · 05-04-2014, 07:04 AM

Considering the exhaust hits the turbine at a 45* angle vs the standard 90*, I don't think it's as easy as machining out the same housings.

Def · 05-05-2014, 04:04 AM

I could be wrong, but I think the turbine volute is the same, and all the "magic" is in the geometry of the turbine blades.

FullRaceGeoff · 05-05-2014, 07:40 AM

Def is correct, the mixed flow turbine wheel uses the same volute as a radial flow turbine wheel. the "tip shape" and "blade contour" are what makes this wheel design so unique

Mannykiller · 05-05-2014, 01:28 PM

Long runner smooth entry on this externally gated 8374!!

PoorMans180SX · 05-05-2014, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullRaceGeoff

Def is correct, the mixed flow turbine wheel uses the same volute as a radial flow turbine wheel. the "tip shape" and "blade contour" are what makes this wheel design so unique

Ahhh interesting.

LuckyX2 · 05-07-2014, 01:17 PM

More people with 7163's are slowly rolling in...

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gr-membe...-many-wow.html

Listen to the induction sound, the turbo basically is always spun up. Also keep in mind he's at 1 mile elevation.

Quote from the owner: "damn thing wants to spool so early literally any time you are above 3k rpms in any gear the car will want to generate 3-5lbs of boost instantly with the lightest of throttle inputs...
It's fun and pretty zippy, can you believe this same car was at 608whp before? In the end the trade off from horsepower to spool was worth it."

RalliartRsX · 05-07-2014, 02:17 PM

^^ Actually, some of that sound at the beginning is the dyno rollers and not the actual turbo on boil

I like the dyno graph. But a little biased in spool since those scoobys are a 2.5 liter bottom end (although the heads are not the best flow wise).

Def · 05-07-2014, 02:29 PM

They actually don't spool up turbos much faster on the average dyno pull than an SR. They have so much piping length that the difference between a run immediately following another, and one 30 seconds later can be on the order of 5-10% of spool RPM. They have that much heat loss before the turbine unless everything is close to steady state.

Their heads do suck something fierce as well when it comes to flow.

RalliartRsX · 05-07-2014, 02:30 PM

^^ Yep, that I do know

DRFT180 · 05-07-2014, 02:31 PM

This 6758 should be strapped to my built KA in a few weeks, along with meth injection. Things will get interesting...

LuckyX2 · 05-07-2014, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

^^ Actually, some of that sound at the beginning is the dyno rollers and not the actual turbo on boil

I like the dyno graph. But a little biased in spool since those scoobys are a 2.5 liter bottom end (although the heads are not the best flow wise).

Yep, but if you listen closely you can hear the turbo whistling over it. Even just on light throttle, you can hear the whistling pick up quickly.

khmerpimpin · 05-08-2014, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullRaceGeoff

^thx i love my evo! my all-time favorite daily driver, evoM banned me because a vendor complained my build thread was unsolicited advertisements.. oh well I thought i had some good info posted in it. im planning to pull the twinscroll 8374 off the car and try a twinsroll 7163 soon should really liven up the lowend tq curve. i run it on E85, there is a taxi refill near the shop, so I plan to keep iwg slammed shut at all times lol

Are all EFR's getting the aluminum chra's?? If so what is the ETA on them, and going from 8374 to 7163 is a big jump!

I wish they made something in between the 7670 and 8374 with MFT. that would be an awesome turbo.

FullRaceGeoff · 05-09-2014, 07:11 AM

8374 to 7163 is a big jump. my twinscroll 8374 spools identically to a singlescroll gt3076R, and while that is incredible and allows me 700+hp worth of airflow, ~500 on the top end but spooling 1000+rpm earlier is very hard to argue with... plus it will roast all (4) tires more easily. Im not into highway or drag racing anymore and really just want my evo to have a "response monster" type powerband. the chassis and differentials are sorted and it slides very predictably so i look at this as a powerband that's more fun. I think these guys putting big singlescroll turbos on their evo's are nuts 6466, 6766, hta37, etc for dyno # and drag racing gets old to me

aluminum CHRA is only for the 7163 at this time. We are still hearing from many installers who can not or dont want to connect water lines -- the steel center section is crucial for these installs (obviously the alu needs to be watercooled). Ive requested that they extend the alu option to the largest/heaviest EFR first (9180 and 8374) and we expect that option to become available around SEMA later this year

as for the larger dia MFT rotor option on a B2 EFR turbo, its been discussed. Based on the results we're having with the 7163 we know there is potential for something like that, but in the lab it appears the 7163 is sort of a "sweet spot" for that blade design. There is some interest amongst the team to try out a couple other technologies, but the existing B2 turbos perform *so well* in the lab its pretty hard to top right now, so it remains to be seen what will eventually get approved and make it to market. More than likely it will be 2 years away... the good news is these guys are working on EFR stuff for 8-10 years from now already too, they are committed for the long haul

Def · 05-09-2014, 03:37 PM

Now they just need to work on their production capacity and being more turbos to the market!!!

LuckyX2 · 05-20-2014, 12:10 PM

Here's some footage of the 7163 equipped Jager Racing STI at Road Atlanta. Skip to 2:05 for the good stuff.

Notice how quickly he's back in boost after a shift and when he's coming out of a corner too. The moment after you hear the RPM pick up, you hear the turbo too.

FullRaceGeoff · 06-11-2014, 01:42 PM

hey guys - just wanted to bump this for anyone looking for a 7163, we have them in stock as twinscroll IWG and vband EWG. im planning to spend my july 4th weekend putting one on my evo

LuckyX2 · 06-16-2014, 02:20 PM

More dyno results coming out of the 7163!

Green is the stock turbo and red is the 7163. 557wtq / 535whp is what it came up with and much much more area under the curve than the stock unit.

Some bad new tho, I'm not the first autocrosser with a 7163 now, he's even in my class too...

Def · 06-17-2014, 06:53 AM

That's a pretty tasty dyno. Looks like full boost around 3.7-3.8k, and very high boost at that.

Sounds like an SR with a twin scroll and more heat delivered to the turbine can do ~25 psi around the 3.8-4.2k RPM range depending on a few different factors.

FullRaceGeoff · 06-17-2014, 02:23 PM

fyi - that chart is the singlescroll vband 7163. they will try a twinscroll at the end of this season, I suspect it will spool 400rpm quicker but lose ~30whp on the top end. we will see..

huffandpuff00 · 06-17-2014, 03:56 PM

bimmer/sr20/efr - at local shop getting finished up and then dyno'd soon!

spooled240 · 06-17-2014, 05:27 PM

these turbos already have built in bypass valves and some sort of electric boost controller built in the compressor housings?

huffandpuff00 · 06-17-2014, 06:06 PM

yes
http://www.turbos.bwauto.com/files/p...nical_data.pdf

LuckyX2 · 07-02-2014, 03:48 PM

Here's a nice quarter mile run in an STI equipped with a 7163. Doesn't show off the transients where the EFRs really shine, but still a good video.

Kingtal0n · 07-02-2014, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huffandpuff00

yes
http://www.turbos.bwauto.com/files/p...nical_data.pdf

Wait, whats that? A bypass valve as close as possible to the compressor?

Put there by the manufacturer?

say it aint so!!!

"Integrated compressor recirculation valve (CRV) to help avoid compressor surge and backflow during a throttle lift event."

RalliartRsX · 07-02-2014, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyX2

Here's a nice quarter mile run in an STI equipped with a 7163. Doesn't show off the transients where the EFRs really shine, but still a good video.

Wow! Really dig it! What did he run?? According to my stop watch, around mid-high 11s??

LuckyX2 · 07-03-2014, 12:54 AM

Nope, try mid-high 10's. He ran a 10.70 at 131.39 mph (It's in the title of the video btw...)

RalliartRsX · 07-04-2014, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyX2

Nope, try mid-high 10's. He ran a 10.70 at 131.39 mph (It's in the title of the video btw...)

Nice time (and yeah, my comp at work blocks all tag line sans video, so never even saw the description)!

Mannykiller · 07-05-2014, 12:37 PM

FInished.......Dyno results coming after this wed. EFR 8374 Dual Turbosmart comp gate 40's Turbosmart upgraded BOV (not sure if it'll even perform better than the recirc) And All Powered by Flex fuel E85. 4" straight through exhaust...should give me something exciting!!

Mannykiller · 07-12-2014, 03:52 PM

Had to cut the session short due to an obvious over boost problem. But man this turbo is an incredible piece of engineering.

05-04-2014, 07:04 AM	#152
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 33 Posts: 5,430 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	Considering the exhaust hits the turbine at a 45* angle vs the standard 90*, I don't think it's as easy as machining out the same housings. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

05-05-2014, 04:04 AM	#153
Def Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,701 Trader Rating: (16) Feedback Score: 16 reviews	I could be wrong, but I think the turbine volute is the same, and all the "magic" is in the geometry of the turbine blades. __________________ S13 Hatch - Goes around tracks quickly DEFSPORT

05-07-2014, 01:17 PM	#157
LuckyX2 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Philadelphia Age: 30 Posts: 850 Trader Rating: (7) Feedback Score: 7 reviews	More people with 7163's are slowly rolling in... http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gr-membe...-many-wow.html Listen to the induction sound, the turbo basically is always spun up. Also keep in mind he's at 1 mile elevation. Quote from the owner: "damn thing wants to spool so early literally any time you are above 3k rpms in any gear the car will want to generate 3-5lbs of boost instantly with the lightest of throttle inputs... It's fun and pretty zippy, can you believe this same car was at 608whp before? In the end the trade off from horsepower to spool was worth it." __________________ My S13 SR Street Mod Build

05-07-2014, 02:29 PM	#159
Def Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,701 Trader Rating: (16) Feedback Score: 16 reviews	They actually don't spool up turbos much faster on the average dyno pull than an SR. They have so much piping length that the difference between a run immediately following another, and one 30 seconds later can be on the order of 5-10% of spool RPM. They have that much heat loss before the turbine unless everything is close to steady state. Their heads do suck something fierce as well when it comes to flow. __________________ S13 Hatch - Goes around tracks quickly DEFSPORT

05-07-2014, 02:31 PM	#161
DRFT180 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Louisiana Posts: 655 Trader Rating: (7) Feedback Score: 7 reviews	This 6758 should be strapped to my built KA in a few weeks, along with meth injection. Things will get interesting... __________________ S14 Build

05-05-2014, 07:40 AM	#154
FullRaceGeoff Leaky Injector Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: az/nj Posts: 123 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Def is correct, the mixed flow turbine wheel uses the same volute as a radial flow turbine wheel. the "tip shape" and "blade contour" are what makes this wheel design so unique

05-05-2014, 01:28 PM	#155
Mannykiller Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Quartz Hill Age: 36 Posts: 833 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Long runner smooth entry on this externally gated 8374!!

05-07-2014, 02:17 PM	#158
RalliartRsX Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 4,753 Trader Rating: (32) Feedback Score: 32 reviews	^^ Actually, some of that sound at the beginning is the dyno rollers and not the actual turbo on boil I like the dyno graph. But a little biased in spool since those scoobys are a 2.5 liter bottom end (although the heads are not the best flow wise).

05-07-2014, 02:30 PM	#160
RalliartRsX Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 4,753 Trader Rating: (32) Feedback Score: 32 reviews	^^ Yep, that I do know

05-09-2014, 07:11 AM	#164
FullRaceGeoff Leaky Injector Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: az/nj Posts: 123 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	8374 to 7163 is a big jump. my twinscroll 8374 spools identically to a singlescroll gt3076R, and while that is incredible and allows me 700+hp worth of airflow, ~500 on the top end but spooling 1000+rpm earlier is very hard to argue with... plus it will roast all (4) tires more easily. Im not into highway or drag racing anymore and really just want my evo to have a "response monster" type powerband. the chassis and differentials are sorted and it slides very predictably so i look at this as a powerband that's more fun. I think these guys putting big singlescroll turbos on their evo's are nuts 6466, 6766, hta37, etc for dyno # and drag racing gets old to me aluminum CHRA is only for the 7163 at this time. We are still hearing from many installers who can not or dont want to connect water lines -- the steel center section is crucial for these installs (obviously the alu needs to be watercooled). Ive requested that they extend the alu option to the largest/heaviest EFR first (9180 and 8374) and we expect that option to become available around SEMA later this year as for the larger dia MFT rotor option on a B2 EFR turbo, its been discussed. Based on the results we're having with the 7163 we know there is potential for something like that, but in the lab it appears the 7163 is sort of a "sweet spot" for that blade design. There is some interest amongst the team to try out a couple other technologies, but the existing B2 turbos perform so well in the lab its pretty hard to top right now, so it remains to be seen what will eventually get approved and make it to market. More than likely it will be 2 years away... the good news is these guys are working on EFR stuff for 8-10 years from now already too, they are committed for the long haul

05-09-2014, 03:37 PM	#165
Def Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,701 Trader Rating: (16) Feedback Score: 16 reviews	Now they just need to work on their production capacity and being more turbos to the market!!! __________________ S13 Hatch - Goes around tracks quickly DEFSPORT

05-20-2014, 12:10 PM	#166
LuckyX2 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Philadelphia Age: 30 Posts: 850 Trader Rating: (7) Feedback Score: 7 reviews	Here's some footage of the 7163 equipped Jager Racing STI at Road Atlanta. Skip to 2:05 for the good stuff. Notice how quickly he's back in boost after a shift and when he's coming out of a corner too. The moment after you hear the RPM pick up, you hear the turbo too. __________________ My S13 SR Street Mod Build

06-11-2014, 01:42 PM	#167
FullRaceGeoff Leaky Injector Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: az/nj Posts: 123 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	hey guys - just wanted to bump this for anyone looking for a 7163, we have them in stock as twinscroll IWG and vband EWG. im planning to spend my july 4th weekend putting one on my evo

06-16-2014, 02:20 PM	#168
LuckyX2 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Philadelphia Age: 30 Posts: 850 Trader Rating: (7) Feedback Score: 7 reviews	More dyno results coming out of the 7163! Green is the stock turbo and red is the 7163. 557wtq / 535whp is what it came up with and much much more area under the curve than the stock unit. Some bad new tho, I'm not the first autocrosser with a 7163 now, he's even in my class too... __________________ My S13 SR Street Mod Build

06-17-2014, 06:53 AM	#169
Def Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,701 Trader Rating: (16) Feedback Score: 16 reviews	That's a pretty tasty dyno. Looks like full boost around 3.7-3.8k, and very high boost at that. Sounds like an SR with a twin scroll and more heat delivered to the turbine can do ~25 psi around the 3.8-4.2k RPM range depending on a few different factors. __________________ S13 Hatch - Goes around tracks quickly DEFSPORT

06-17-2014, 02:23 PM	#170
FullRaceGeoff Leaky Injector Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: az/nj Posts: 123 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	fyi - that chart is the singlescroll vband 7163. they will try a twinscroll at the end of this season, I suspect it will spool 400rpm quicker but lose ~30whp on the top end. we will see..

06-17-2014, 03:56 PM	#171
huffandpuff00 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: oregon Age: 35 Posts: 835 Trader Rating: (9) Feedback Score: 9 reviews	bimmer/sr20/efr - at local shop getting finished up and then dyno'd soon!

06-17-2014, 05:27 PM	#172
spooled240 Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 4,138 Trader Rating: (27) Feedback Score: 27 reviews	these turbos already have built in bypass valves and some sort of electric boost controller built in the compressor housings?

06-17-2014, 06:06 PM	#173
huffandpuff00 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: oregon Age: 35 Posts: 835 Trader Rating: (9) Feedback Score: 9 reviews	yes http://www.turbos.bwauto.com/files/p...nical_data.pdf

07-02-2014, 03:48 PM	#174
LuckyX2 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Philadelphia Age: 30 Posts: 850 Trader Rating: (7) Feedback Score: 7 reviews	Here's a nice quarter mile run in an STI equipped with a 7163. Doesn't show off the transients where the EFRs really shine, but still a good video. __________________ My S13 SR Street Mod Build

07-03-2014, 12:54 AM	#177
LuckyX2 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Philadelphia Age: 30 Posts: 850 Trader Rating: (7) Feedback Score: 7 reviews	Nope, try mid-high 10's. He ran a 10.70 at 131.39 mph (It's in the title of the video btw...) __________________ My S13 SR Street Mod Build

07-05-2014, 12:37 PM	#179
Mannykiller Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Quartz Hill Age: 36 Posts: 833 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	FInished.......Dyno results coming after this wed. EFR 8374 Dual Turbosmart comp gate 40's Turbosmart upgraded BOV (not sure if it'll even perform better than the recirc) And All Powered by Flex fuel E85. 4" straight through exhaust...should give me something exciting!! __________________ IG:@AAPARKAH #ThisIsTheWolf

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