|
Home | Rules & Guidelines | Register | Member Rides | FAQ | Members List | Social Groups | Calendar | Mark Forums Read |
Tech Talk Technical Discussion About The Nissan 240SX and Nissan Z Cars |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
06-18-2012, 12:21 PM | #271 | ||
Premium Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 5,824
Trader Rating: (13)
Feedback Score: 13 reviews
|
Quote:
Placement of the top bung should be above the drilling holes I have marked in red. Quote:
__________________
Turn and Burn! |
||
Sponsored Links |
06-18-2012, 02:39 PM | #272 |
Zilvia Addict
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Philadelphia
Age: 30
Posts: 850
Trader Rating: (7)
Feedback Score: 7 reviews
|
This thread has gotten me thinking about catch cans and what I personally want from one.
Goals: -Scavenge gasses off of the valve cover and crank using the intake as a vacuum source -Let little to no oil into the intake -Recirculate the oil from the valve cover and crank (I don't want to worry about a catch can filling up...) Here's what I came up with that I believe will meet these goals. The view of the separator is cross-sectional btw. Oil should flow with gravity back down to the crank while gasses are suctioned off from the valve cover and crank through the intake port. Think of it like the stock oil/air separator but with a third fitting for the intake instead of at the T where the intake will suck in oil. Thoughts? |
06-18-2012, 03:19 PM | #273 |
Premium Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 5,824
Trader Rating: (13)
Feedback Score: 13 reviews
|
I like the idea, but where is the crank case going to get suction from?
In a sealed/scavenged environment, you want to create suction from the crank case under boost.... Then allow your system to scavenge when there is excess pulled up from the crank case to flow back down..... With the system design by Luke and I, it just makes things easier... I use a greddy catch, which is a fucking useless catch can except that its sealed.... There are other ones with an actually baffle which would help a lot more. The below from Evolution.Net is pretty good.... A function nice catch can.... Wish it was bigger though and after its done, I would probably silicon the sides to make sure EVERYTHING is air tight..... How To: Another DIY Catch Can mod - Dual, with baffles and extended inlet tube - evolutionm.net
__________________
Turn and Burn! |
06-18-2012, 05:51 PM | #274 | |
Zilvia Addict
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Philadelphia
Age: 30
Posts: 850
Trader Rating: (7)
Feedback Score: 7 reviews
|
Quote:
I tried to show this with the "air flow" arrows. And that's a crazy catch can setup haha. I'm more of a K.I.S.S. guy myself but I appreciate the work put into that. |
|
06-18-2012, 06:10 PM | #275 | |
Zilvia FREAK!
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Woodinville
Age: 39
Posts: 1,412
Trader Rating: (5)
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
|
Quote:
|
|
06-18-2012, 06:17 PM | #276 | |
Zilvia Addict
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Philadelphia
Age: 30
Posts: 850
Trader Rating: (7)
Feedback Score: 7 reviews
|
Quote:
And that wool dramatically reduces the holding capacity... |
|
06-18-2012, 06:28 PM | #277 |
Zilvia FREAK!
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Woodinville
Age: 39
Posts: 1,412
Trader Rating: (5)
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
|
For me, I've been having trouble with keeping the oil in the god dam can. I added some baffle, still coming up, added steel wool and some more baffle, still getting in the intake.
I'm going to leave the stuff in there, tired of it, even with the extended tube, maybe he had the same thought lol. |
06-18-2012, 09:22 PM | #281 |
Post Whore!
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SWFL
Age: 47
Posts: 3,318
Trader Rating: (3)
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
|
ok fella's, in a perfect world with a good working engine(system) the blow by gasses are just that! Gas or air or oily air .etc! So a filter in the system is a no no! (Not saying it won't work for you, just not ideal.) So anyway, if you are spitting out oil... liquid oil, then your system could really benefit from the mod luke and slider2828 came up with. The pro's are less oil in catch can, faster rotating assembly and probably more power! Con's I haven't seen any from the systems I modified with their information.
Why I think it works: The rear fitting that leads to the catch can is on top of the valve cover, and in a low pressure location, the liquid oil has to travel up and out of the valve cover, fighting gravity. This alone equal less oil in catch can, vs the side exit of the stock configuration The small holes, if drilled correctly allow the oil to drain away from the area quickly. It's a really a good design. I think you understand a lil better now! di-devol Take the T and turn the fitting 85deg or 11 and 5 o'clock see if you have less oil in your catch can after a few hard pulls and or some cornering. My system is working really good, I do get a few drops from my catch can hose. The can itself has about a 4-5mm layer of sludge in it, I check it every other oil change and it is getting higher. I'm not currently running this mod myself, but it's one of those things that does work. so why not?
__________________
LoverTechnologies "Half Broken Things!" |
06-18-2012, 11:28 PM | #283 |
Zilvia FREAK!
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Woodinville
Age: 39
Posts: 1,412
Trader Rating: (5)
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
|
I dunno, all I know is I got like 4k on this built motor. I beat the fucking piss outta it when drifting. I pulled about a tablespoon or two from the catch can after 12-15 runs.
Dunno why it does it, everything is great, good compression, great power. All I know is following some of these steps to just help get the oil from going into the intake tract, them I'm happy haha. |
06-18-2012, 11:32 PM | #284 |
Post Whore!
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SWFL
Age: 47
Posts: 3,318
Trader Rating: (3)
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
|
If your system doesn't spit out oil? You are probably a conservative driver and probably get 28-30mpg! j/k
Connect the Front of the T to the intake! if you don't spit out liquid oil or vapor, you pipes won't be oily and octane level will not be compromised. The OEM routing would suit you best! You're running a filter on the front of the Valve cover T. You can benefit from a regular catch can setup and also the Luke and slider2828 mod. There is probably something wrong with your system because the design is flawed and allows oil and air to pass by the T regardless of engine wear, age or usage. So if that filter is not nasty and you don't change it ever other oil change. Something is wrong. Oily air would quickly clog that filter, if the car is driven with any kind of passion! So if you don't spit out liquid oil from the valve cover T, you still want to create a negative pressure situation in the crank case. That's were the More HP in the mod title comes from. If you have oil pressure and the cams are flinging oil all over the place, that big hole in the front of the engine, chains, cam gears, rocker arms and springs going crazy. Why do you thing there should be no oil at the valve cover T With a filter in the system we just say, your system is not setup correctly.
__________________
LoverTechnologies "Half Broken Things!" |
06-19-2012, 12:10 AM | #285 |
Premium Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 5,824
Trader Rating: (13)
Feedback Score: 13 reviews
|
Beating the piss out of the car in the straight line doesn't do anything LOL.... In competitive drifting and tracking... SUSTAINED G's are what causes the oil to spit out of the crankcase..... Occasional 2-3 corners is nothing, we talking run after run after run, 20 minutes to 40 minutes of sustained track use at 5500 RPM or above.....
This is just a nice mod for people... If your catch currently works, no biggy.... But some people no longer have the luxury to use the stock black air/oil separator cause of an aftermarket intake manifold. Regardless, I just hope this helps some people out.... Easy and cheap mod I think....
__________________
Turn and Burn! |
06-19-2012, 12:33 AM | #286 | |
Zilvia FREAK!
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Woodinville
Age: 39
Posts: 1,412
Trader Rating: (5)
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
|
Quote:
|
|
06-19-2012, 01:08 AM | #287 |
Post Whore!
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SWFL
Age: 47
Posts: 3,318
Trader Rating: (3)
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
|
I've witnessed a catch can fill, after a few quarter mile runs. I really don't know what else to say about that, but this mod cured that situation for him.
That little brass fitting stops the oil from shooting across the T. I have no liquid oil in my catch can after drifting. I can literally watch the oil condense in my hoses after a session.
__________________
LoverTechnologies "Half Broken Things!" |
06-19-2012, 03:15 AM | #288 |
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Townsville AUS
Age: 42
Posts: 6
Trader Rating: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
|
Just got the cover off and was concerned about where the swarf from the drilling is going and how to ensure it is cleared? Maybe cotbu or slider who has done this could help me out, as not sure if the mesh baffeling goes all the way down to where the nww bung will be etc? Any info asap would be great as keen to get a good run on it tonight, track day coming up.
|
06-19-2012, 08:17 AM | #289 |
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Townsville AUS
Age: 42
Posts: 6
Trader Rating: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
|
Just drilled the holes for the cover, will post pics up asap, the small ones in the baffel don't line up with the main bung as such, if i were to drill the main bung directly above where 'slider' had the 1/8th holes markes it would'nt line up with his in the pictures (a little back from the last spark plug hole)
So is it a problem if the small holes are not directly under the top bung? Or is it better them be slightly off ? Sorry for all questions but would like to know for sure. Thanks again peoples. |
06-19-2012, 10:14 AM | #290 |
Premium Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 5,824
Trader Rating: (13)
Feedback Score: 13 reviews
|
Sorry, I don't have the exact pictures, its like a 2 year old thread, so its been awhile.... be directly under is the best....
Just drill it relatively slowly with a sharp drill bit. The shards should come off pretty cleanly and its pretty thin, so you are good.... But yeah under is best.....
__________________
Turn and Burn! |
06-19-2012, 04:19 PM | #291 |
Post Whore!
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SWFL
Age: 47
Posts: 3,318
Trader Rating: (3)
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
|
The tools I use are, sharpie, punch, cam lube and drill bit. None of my drill bit are that sharp. The lube catches those little shavings, the other stuff travels up the flutes.
__________________
LoverTechnologies "Half Broken Things!" |
06-19-2012, 04:42 PM | #293 | |
Premium Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 5,824
Trader Rating: (13)
Feedback Score: 13 reviews
|
Quote:
I was thinking about the scavenging system.... I haven't thought about it too much as I haven't had time. I think scavenging back to the crank would be nice. I think having oil go back to the oil pan is nice idea as I it shouldn't have position pressure at any time unless you have busted rings that will cause pressure in the crank case and pan and causing it to blow oil back into your can.... So I am on the fence about scavenging back to the pan for those just in case moments. When I cracked my ring landing on my 1st motor, the dipstick blew oil everywhere.... I don't want it to do the same with a catch can.... thats all I am saying, but I don't see why not.
__________________
Turn and Burn! |
|
06-19-2012, 05:01 PM | #294 |
Zilvia Addict
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Philadelphia
Age: 30
Posts: 850
Trader Rating: (7)
Feedback Score: 7 reviews
|
Yeah, it's basically a catch can that's sealed, under vacuum and drains back into the crankcase.
I wanted to keep it as close to the OEM setup but not suck oil into the intake. If you think about it, it's really doing the same thing as the crank->separator->T->intake setup that's stock but mine won't suck oil into the intake so long as I baffle it correctly inside. Hopefully I'll get time to weld it up in the coming weeks and try it out at a few autocrosses. I'll throw a clear hose on it temporarily and post the results. |
06-20-2012, 02:56 PM | #295 |
Premium Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 5,824
Trader Rating: (13)
Feedback Score: 13 reviews
|
Sure.... you if it is long enough..... at least have a good 1.5"..... I dun remember that thing between that long..... There is a pressure so don't forget.
__________________
Turn and Burn! |
06-20-2012, 04:09 PM | #296 |
Zilvia Addict
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Philadelphia
Age: 30
Posts: 850
Trader Rating: (7)
Feedback Score: 7 reviews
|
Another issue is that you won't have a ridge at the end for the hose to grab onto, leaving it prone to sliding off.
Should work though if you clean the tube well with a good solvent to get some grip and clamp the shit out of it. |
06-25-2012, 05:56 AM | #297 |
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Townsville AUS
Age: 42
Posts: 6
Trader Rating: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
|
***UPDATE***
Done this mod last week ready for my next track day on Saturday just gone, in the previous rounds I was getting 450ml of oil in my catch can after the days racing aprox 25 laps. With a less than 10% leak down and good compression test. Very happy to say on Saturday after the days racing with this mod no oil at all in my catch can 30 laps and even went across to the drags for 5 runs still no oil. 12.5 @ 115 (track rubber and setup) So big thumbs up to the pair (Blu808 & slider2828) for sharing this mod Last edited by benson93; 06-26-2012 at 06:24 AM.. |
06-25-2012, 09:08 AM | #298 |
Bandwagon.
|
hey what hoses do you guys use that can stand the heat, heater hoses that are used for coolant? or would PS hoses work, fuel wont work, they become hard and brittle.
Also, benson, from looking at your pics, you didnt need to weld? And the best way to get metered air is from the maf piping? |
06-25-2012, 09:49 AM | #299 |
Premium Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 5,824
Trader Rating: (13)
Feedback Score: 13 reviews
|
Awesome Benson!!! Thanks for sharing.... Yeah it works for sure and its nice its scavenging the oil into the head....
I've gone about 4 hours of road tracking and have droplets before, so I would still check it from time to time, but yes it greatly reduces those how much oil is spit out on the S13. @hOngsterr. That orange oil line has a high temp (2000 F) shield on it. That barrier for lines you can get from like a summit racing and stuff....
__________________
Turn and Burn! |
06-25-2012, 09:53 AM | #300 | |||||||
Bandwagon.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
everything summed up for the lazy fools, if you want to know technical, then you gotta read the pages lol. |
|||||||
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|