Sunroof vs. Hardtop - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

RanciD · 09-06-2003, 10:32 AM

How much difference in chassis stiffness and weight does the sunroof on an S13 fastback actually make? I've been looking and looking for a hardtop because I want to use it as a track car but every one in a 100 mile radius has a sunroof.

If it doesn't make that much difference then I'll probably just settle for a sunroof.. but I'd really so much rather have a hardtop. Would I notice the difference on a typical autocross course?

*HaLo* · 09-06-2003, 10:35 AM

I do know that thanks to the sunroof, I fit in my car with my helmet. I don't know if it would be the same without the sunroof.

RanciD · 09-06-2003, 10:51 AM

Is the hardtop roof lower? Or you mean cause you can stick your head out of the sunroof? How tall are you without the helmet? I may have this problem too, I'm about 6 feet and hadn't even thought about that.. Thanks dude!

*HaLo* · 09-06-2003, 11:03 AM

5'10" about... give or take an inch. I can stick out my head in the sunroof spot. I dunnon about the hardtop. If it's the same height as the rest of my roof, I wouldn't fit confortably with the helmet.

Nismo 180sx Tuner · 09-06-2003, 11:16 AM

I am 6'4 and i dont have a problem and i have owned a 240 with and without a sunroof and have not had a problem with clearance. If you do have a problem you can get racing bucket seats you sit lower in those and then you can also make the seat lower by cuttung the bracket a little.

Nerfdude · 09-06-2003, 12:14 PM

hmm. i HAVE a hardtop and wish i had a sunroof....

MadChild · 09-06-2003, 12:27 PM

I've drivin a hard top with a helment and my sunroof with a helment they feel pretty much the same. It just that if you go past like 80-90 mph the wind creeps in really hard so i have my sun roof open all the time, and also if you planning to by a sun roof make sure it doens't leak water through the seals. Thats is whats happening to mind and it sucks. Everytime i slam on the breaks i would have a water fall

*HaLo* · 09-06-2003, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nismo 180sx Tuner
I am 6'4 and i dont have a problem and i have owned a 240 with and without a sunroof and have not had a problem with clearance. If you do have a problem you can get racing bucket seats you sit lower in those and then you can also make the seat lower by cuttung the bracket a little.

With or without helmet?

floater · 09-06-2003, 07:59 PM

I sit at about 5'11 and was constantly banging my head against the sunroof. If you can find one w/o a sunroof it will be a little stiffer and a little lighter, but I am not sure by how much. Installing a full cage would probably take care of a lot of the stiffnes problems, though.

Legacy · 09-06-2003, 08:51 PM

I believe a slicktop has more headroom than one with a sunroof. There's nothing you have to put between the roof and the headliner if you don't have a sunroof and no need for extra reinforcments.

I'm 6'4" and with plenty of headroom in my S13 (slicktop). I have not tried on a helmet yet... but there shouldn't be any problems with the amount of headroom I have.

To answer your question. I hear the body is more ridgid... but I don't know how much you'll actually notice. Just tune the car right and everything will be fine.

Red · 09-06-2003, 10:34 PM

Well if your 6'4" and have a sunroof... In my S14 I know my head hits.. So I slouch.. alot..

I was thinking about looking for a wrecked S14 and cutting the roof off.

or just the middle section and putting it in mine.. (tho it does let the heat out fast)

Without a sunroof the inside should be like an inch taller..

Danio · 09-06-2003, 10:53 PM

There is definitely more room without a sunroof. I'd say at least an inch more but feels like more. And yeah it's so hard to find an S13 without a sunroof. :(

Toahk · 09-06-2003, 11:35 PM

Im' 6'1 and dont have Any problems with my 89 240, its a total base model no power anything, no options at all. Its a blessing and a curse. Sometimes I wish I had a SE with all those fancy do da electric stuff but then I like the lightness of my car and not having to worry about electric motors going out and power locks not working and stuff.

drift freaq · 09-07-2003, 12:11 AM

well if anyone wants one I have a black 92 coupe base model no sunroof.

Chernobyl · 09-07-2003, 12:32 AM

On the weight issue, a guy I know took the power sunroof and all of its associated parts out of his '93 coupe and weighed it all, and got 40 lbs. Add about 2 (high estimate) lbs of sheet metal that would go in place of the sunroof, and you have just about a 38 lb diffence in weight. Not to metion that weight is at the highest part of your car, raising the CG.

thx247 · 09-07-2003, 01:00 AM

I dont think the sunroof detracts much from the structure of the car. There was a post on FA about it not that long ago and no one really was able to prove or disprove sunroofs being weaker or not.

Imo just get whatever you like more, sunroof or not. There are alot of other things about a car that I would worry about more than if it had a sunroof or not hehe.

twitchy · 09-07-2003, 02:44 AM

sunroofs are great.

there is some convention to the structural stiffness concerned with a hole in the roof, although I think you could easily overcome this with a strut tower brace. On the downside, they can be a pain in the arse, mine rattles like mad when its open, its more of a decoration for now when the car is parked

Theres less headroom with a sunroof

adey · 09-07-2003, 06:49 AM

Allow me to just differentiate between sunroofs (the one that only pops open, pivoting at the front and that are removable) and moonroofs (the ones that actually slide back and open; non-removable)... the moonroof would weigh a good deal more (requiring the mechanisms and all that) while the sunroof may weigh less with the roof glass removed. (probably weighs more with it in, though).

MadChild · 09-07-2003, 10:02 AM

You guys also have to considerate that some people have long legs then their upper body, or vise verse. I'm 6'0 230 and i have no problem at all...My body portion is about equall so there is no problems at all.

RanciD · 09-07-2003, 11:04 AM

If the sunroof were completely taken out would the loss in rigitidy be noticeable?

*sykikchimp* · 09-07-2003, 11:25 AM

When you remove the glass sunroof from a Fastback, (since that was what the original question was about) you see no change is structural stiffness. the peice just lays in the hole.

Add a couple stbs, and a couple good chassis braces.. TAADAA, no more rattling sunroof.

I'm 6'4" with pretty long legs. My knees are in the steering wheel, and when I'm on the track, my helmets sticks into the sunroof opening (we aren't allowed to remove the sunroof, must be closed, and latched.) I don't notice when I'm on track. What I do notice is my knees in the wheel. I really need some sort of steering wheel spacer to bring it out closer to me.

drift freaq · 09-07-2003, 01:25 PM

well the big problem with the sunroof is not that it exists. I actually like having them for the sake of ventilation and light.BUT and a big one at that, is Nissans hinge design and seal design in their sunroofs, was such that they tend to not seal correctly above 70 mph, hence whistling. They are also prone to abruptly slamming shut over bumps or incongruities in the road. If these problems could be overcome I would welcome the sunroof. As it is I prefer non sunroof because of these issues

Rennen · 09-07-2003, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sykikchimp

I'm 6'4" with pretty long legs. My knees are in the steering wheel, and when I'm on the track, my helmets sticks into the sunroof opening (we aren't allowed to remove the sunroof, must be closed, and latched.) I don't notice when I'm on track. What I do notice is my knees in the wheel. I really need some sort of steering wheel spacer to bring it out closer to me.

I am also 6'4" and have the exact same problem.

I fit in my car(fastback with flip up sunroof) with helmet, but the helmet sticks up out of the sunroof a lil bit. And the thing that I hate is that the lip of the sunroof hole tends to want to close my visor all the time.

Here is a pic of me being 6'4", wearing a helmet, and driving the car. add .orig.jpg to get big pic:

Oh, I love the sunroof, I don't think I would want the car without it, having the wind in my hair even on days that its raining is so worth it. And if you have the flip up sunroof, and it whistles over 70 like mine used to, there is an easy fix. Just unscrew the plate that has the latch on the back, add a couple washers, then reattach. It gives the latch more leverage and stops the whistling.

-Matt

Red · 09-07-2003, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adey
Allow me to just differentiate between sunroofs (the one that only pops open, pivoting at the front and that are removable) and moonroofs (the ones that actually slide back and open; non-removable)... the moonroof would weigh a good deal more (requiring the mechanisms and all that) while the sunroof may weigh less with the roof glass removed. (probably weighs more with it in, though).

I thought that...

(Sunroof) Was solid...

and

(Moonroof) Was glass..

?? was I way off?

Pignose_Jorge · 09-16-2016, 04:34 PM

Hey guys my sunroof on my 89 fastback is shit and wont even open, i know i can fix it but i rather have a full hardtop any ideas on where to make that happen?

KAT-PWR · 09-16-2016, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pignose_Jorge

Hey guys my sunroof on my 89 fastback is shit and wont even open, i know i can fix it but i rather have a full hardtop any ideas on where to make that happen?

Cut the skin off a hard top car, cut your sunroof top off, section the hardtop roof in by welding, body work, paint, done

Pignose_Jorge · 09-16-2016, 04:37 PM

Well that makes sense but i cant find a hardtop 240 around here where i would be able to cut it out

supersayianjim · 09-16-2016, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drift freaq

well if anyone wants one I have a black 92 coupe base model no sunroof.

where are you located, and how much do you want for said coupe?

drift freaq · 09-16-2016, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supersayianjim

where are you located, and how much do you want for said coupe?

You do realize you guys necro'd a 13 year old thread? Lol no I no longer have that car and have not owned it for a good 12 years.
Seriously guys look at post dates.

KAT-PWR · 09-16-2016, 07:26 PM

I was 10 years old when this thread was made HAHAHA

09-06-2003, 10:32 AM	#1
RanciD Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Nashville Posts: 375 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Sunroof vs. Hardtop How much difference in chassis stiffness and weight does the sunroof on an S13 fastback actually make? I've been looking and looking for a hardtop because I want to use it as a track car but every one in a 100 mile radius has a sunroof. If it doesn't make that much difference then I'll probably just settle for a sunroof.. but I'd really so much rather have a hardtop. Would I notice the difference on a typical autocross course? __________________ '92 240SX, '07 G35S 6MT, '09 CBR600RR

09-06-2003, 10:35 AM	#2
HaLo from Canada, eh! Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Montreal, Quebec Age: 42 Posts: 5,199 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: HaLo Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I do know that thanks to the sunroof, I fit in my car with my helmet. I don't know if it would be the same without the sunroof. __________________ -> HaLo Race Car: '98 E36 BMW M3 Daily Driver: '08 Fiji Blue Honda Civic Si SOLD: 01 GPW Honda S2000 PARTED: 93 Pearl White 240SX LE Fastback w/SR20DET SOLD: 93 Super White 240SX SE Convertible w/Silvia Front

09-06-2003, 10:51 AM	#3
RanciD Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Nashville Posts: 375 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Is the hardtop roof lower? Or you mean cause you can stick your head out of the sunroof? How tall are you without the helmet? I may have this problem too, I'm about 6 feet and hadn't even thought about that.. Thanks dude! __________________ '92 240SX, '07 G35S 6MT, '09 CBR600RR

09-06-2003, 11:03 AM	#4
HaLo from Canada, eh! Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Montreal, Quebec Age: 42 Posts: 5,199 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: HaLo Feedback Score: 0 reviews	5'10" about... give or take an inch. I can stick out my head in the sunroof spot. I dunnon about the hardtop. If it's the same height as the rest of my roof, I wouldn't fit confortably with the helmet. __________________ -> HaLo Race Car: '98 E36 BMW M3 Daily Driver: '08 Fiji Blue Honda Civic Si SOLD: 01 GPW Honda S2000 PARTED: 93 Pearl White 240SX LE Fastback w/SR20DET SOLD: 93 Super White 240SX SE Convertible w/Silvia Front

09-06-2003, 12:27 PM	#7
MadChild Leaky Injector Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: MN Age: 36 Posts: 58 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I've drivin a hard top with a helment and my sunroof with a helment they feel pretty much the same. It just that if you go past like 80-90 mph the wind creeps in really hard so i have my sun roof open all the time, and also if you planning to by a sun roof make sure it doens't leak water through the seals. Thats is whats happening to mind and it sucks. Everytime i slam on the breaks i would have a water fall __________________ '90 240SX w/SR20DET

09-06-2003, 11:16 AM	#5
Nismo 180sx Tuner Leaky Injector Join Date: May 2003 Location: Green Bay, WI Age: 37 Posts: 114 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I am 6'4 and i dont have a problem and i have owned a 240 with and without a sunroof and have not had a problem with clearance. If you do have a problem you can get racing bucket seats you sit lower in those and then you can also make the seat lower by cuttung the bracket a little.

09-06-2003, 12:14 PM	#6
Nerfdude BANNED Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 495 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	hmm. i HAVE a hardtop and wish i had a sunroof....

09-06-2003, 07:59 PM	#9
floater Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: spokane Posts: 7 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	sunroof I sit at about 5'11 and was constantly banging my head against the sunroof. If you can find one w/o a sunroof it will be a little stiffer and a little lighter, but I am not sure by how much. Installing a full cage would probably take care of a lot of the stiffnes problems, though.

09-06-2003, 08:51 PM	#10
Legacy Zilvia Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hacienda Heights, CA Posts: 193 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I believe a slicktop has more headroom than one with a sunroof. There's nothing you have to put between the roof and the headliner if you don't have a sunroof and no need for extra reinforcments. I'm 6'4" and with plenty of headroom in my S13 (slicktop). I have not tried on a helmet yet... but there shouldn't be any problems with the amount of headroom I have. To answer your question. I hear the body is more ridgid... but I don't know how much you'll actually notice. Just tune the car right and everything will be fine.

09-06-2003, 10:34 PM	#11
Red Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Vancouver, WA - Portland, OR Age: 40 Posts: 734 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Well if your 6'4" and have a sunroof... In my S14 I know my head hits.. So I slouch.. alot.. I was thinking about looking for a wrecked S14 and cutting the roof off. or just the middle section and putting it in mine.. (tho it does let the heat out fast) Without a sunroof the inside should be like an inch taller.. __________________ http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/509537 http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4287415487 http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=21036

09-06-2003, 10:53 PM	#12
Danio Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: SJ Bay Area Posts: 1,002 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	There is definitely more room without a sunroof. I'd say at least an inch more but feels like more. And yeah it's so hard to find an S13 without a sunroof. :(

09-06-2003, 11:35 PM	#13
Toahk Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: N. Cali Age: 35 Posts: 434 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Im' 6'1 and dont have Any problems with my 89 240, its a total base model no power anything, no options at all. Its a blessing and a curse. Sometimes I wish I had a SE with all those fancy do da electric stuff but then I like the lightness of my car and not having to worry about electric motors going out and power locks not working and stuff.

09-07-2003, 12:11 AM	#14
drift freaq R.I.P. Aya, always love Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Los Feliz/Hollywood Posts: 18,558 Trader Rating: (215) Rides Gallery: drift freaq Feedback Score: 215 reviews	well if anyone wants one I have a black 92 coupe base model no sunroof. __________________ "Having a lot of tracks on a song is like putting stickers on a car to get more horsepower" New Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uebV1OnbRsw Buy my mounts! http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/51531...ns-mounts.html http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/317539...e-mouts-6.html

09-07-2003, 12:32 AM	#15
Chernobyl Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Denver, CO Age: 38 Posts: 1,563 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	On the weight issue, a guy I know took the power sunroof and all of its associated parts out of his '93 coupe and weighed it all, and got 40 lbs. Add about 2 (high estimate) lbs of sheet metal that would go in place of the sunroof, and you have just about a 38 lb diffence in weight. Not to metion that weight is at the highest part of your car, raising the CG.

09-07-2003, 01:00 AM	#16
thx247 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: bay area Posts: 1,455 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I dont think the sunroof detracts much from the structure of the car. There was a post on FA about it not that long ago and no one really was able to prove or disprove sunroofs being weaker or not. Imo just get whatever you like more, sunroof or not. There are alot of other things about a car that I would worry about more than if it had a sunroof or not hehe.

09-07-2003, 02:44 AM	#17
twitchy Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ontario Posts: 1,579 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	sunroofs are great. there is some convention to the structural stiffness concerned with a hole in the roof, although I think you could easily overcome this with a strut tower brace. On the downside, they can be a pain in the arse, mine rattles like mad when its open, its more of a decoration for now when the car is parked Theres less headroom with a sunroof __________________ Who the hell needs a sig anyhow

09-07-2003, 06:49 AM	#18
adey Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 3,061 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Allow me to just differentiate between sunroofs (the one that only pops open, pivoting at the front and that are removable) and moonroofs (the ones that actually slide back and open; non-removable)... the moonroof would weigh a good deal more (requiring the mechanisms and all that) while the sunroof may weigh less with the roof glass removed. (probably weighs more with it in, though).

09-07-2003, 10:02 AM	#19
MadChild Leaky Injector Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: MN Age: 36 Posts: 58 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	You guys also have to considerate that some people have long legs then their upper body, or vise verse. I'm 6'0 230 and i have no problem at all...My body portion is about equall so there is no problems at all. __________________ '90 240SX w/SR20DET

09-07-2003, 11:04 AM	#20
RanciD Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Nashville Posts: 375 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	If the sunroof were completely taken out would the loss in rigitidy be noticeable? __________________ '92 240SX, '07 G35S 6MT, '09 CBR600RR

09-07-2003, 11:25 AM	#21
sykikchimp WOW addicted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the moon Age: 40 Posts: 6,518 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	When you remove the glass sunroof from a Fastback, (since that was what the original question was about) you see no change is structural stiffness. the peice just lays in the hole. Add a couple stbs, and a couple good chassis braces.. TAADAA, no more rattling sunroof. I'm 6'4" with pretty long legs. My knees are in the steering wheel, and when I'm on the track, my helmets sticks into the sunroof opening (we aren't allowed to remove the sunroof, must be closed, and latched.) I don't notice when I'm on track. What I do notice is my knees in the wheel. I really need some sort of steering wheel spacer to bring it out closer to me. __________________

09-07-2003, 01:25 PM	#22
drift freaq R.I.P. Aya, always love Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Los Feliz/Hollywood Posts: 18,558 Trader Rating: (215) Rides Gallery: drift freaq Feedback Score: 215 reviews	well the big problem with the sunroof is not that it exists. I actually like having them for the sake of ventilation and light.BUT and a big one at that, is Nissans hinge design and seal design in their sunroofs, was such that they tend to not seal correctly above 70 mph, hence whistling. They are also prone to abruptly slamming shut over bumps or incongruities in the road. If these problems could be overcome I would welcome the sunroof. As it is I prefer non sunroof because of these issues __________________ "Having a lot of tracks on a song is like putting stickers on a car to get more horsepower" New Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uebV1OnbRsw Buy my mounts! http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/51531...ns-mounts.html http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/317539...e-mouts-6.html

09-16-2016, 04:34 PM	#25
Pignose_Jorge Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Bell gardens CA. 90201 Posts: 27 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Hey guys my sunroof on my 89 fastback is shit and wont even open, i know i can fix it but i rather have a full hardtop any ideas on where to make that happen?

09-16-2016, 04:37 PM	#27
Pignose_Jorge Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Bell gardens CA. 90201 Posts: 27 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Well that makes sense but i cant find a hardtop 240 around here where i would be able to cut it out

09-16-2016, 07:26 PM	#30
KAT-PWR Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: US Posts: 2,040 Trader Rating: (11) Rides Gallery: KAT-PWR Feedback Score: 11 reviews	I was 10 years old when this thread was made HAHAHA __________________ MRP Manufacturing

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