spooled240

ok well you seem to be the knowledgeable one here, why don't you tell all of us how much a 21 year old SHOULD be able to afford. I guess where you live a brand new 370 ain't shit? I'm sorry I live in reality where 40K dollar cars aren't in my grasp without mommy and daddy's money.

drift freaq

You seem to be personalizing this. Are you feeling a little less than? Excuse me a 370 is not a 40k car. I also did not say 21 year old and your perspective seems to be somewhat skewed towards yourself.

Maybe you should open up your eyes and raise your expectations? Maybe you should realize most 21 year old's are not buying new cars period! Most are still in college getting degree's, so when they do graduate they can buy 30k cars.

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upsdude

so i went to the nissan site and did a "build your own Z" thing...with absolutely no options...no sport brakes or mudflaps..hell not even floor mats-a little over 30k. what's the sales tax rate in los angeles...almost %10? then you gotta add the bullshit insurance and the lovely california registration fees....i'm guessing around 33-34k at least? i wouldn't be surprised to see the top of the line 370z hit the 40k+ price tag after all the fees/taxes. anyways, i think 240sx replacement would be a nice affordable rwd to have in the nissan lineup IMO. and i resent the "bum fuck nowhere" statement...it's tweaker town...get it straight goddamit. :P

spooled240

lol, not at all. But I think you missed my statement about most of the 21-"ish" year old kids that buy new cars don't buy new 350's/370z's but rather cheaper cars like srt-4's and civic SI's. But let's say you didn't want these FWD cars and you were looking for a brand new RWD Nissan for around 22K. Well, you would be shit out of luck cuz like filiperuvian said, the cheapest 350z you can order is well over 30. The only other equivalent that is out there would be the Genesis 2.0 turbo, that is all I am arguing here.

ronmcdon

My uncle drove a Ferrari 308 in his twenties.
But this is in Beverly Hills, so things are a bit different.

upsdude

so i went to the nissan site and did a "build your own Z" thing...with absolutely no options...no sport brakes or mudflaps..hell not even floor mats-a little over 30k. what's the sales tax rate in los angeles...almost %10? then you gotta add the bullshit insurance and the lovely california registration fees....i'm guessing around 33-34k at least?
Not calling you a liar, but just based on the pricing on a nismo 370 with all the trimmings, it's $40,9000 before all the taxes and fees. well either way, i think 240sx replacement would be a nice affordable rwd to have in the nissan lineup IMO. and i resent the "bum fuck nowhere" statement...it's tweaker town...get it straight goddamit.

drift freaq

Ah the Nismo edition is a special edition and not really representative of the whole 370 line price wise. To use it as example is ludicrous because the average 370 buyer will not even think about the Nismo edition.
That's like saying a 92 s13 cost almost 20k because the Super Hicas edition was priced their but the average 240 sold for 15k.

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upsdude

^ok i'll agree with that premise. still, if the "average" 370z buyer is looking at the entire line for this car from the base, to touring, sport, touring+sport packages that's a range of $30,000 to $37,660. toss in the options and fees/taxes/dealer markups and this car can turn expensive quick. Maybe i've been spoiled by the fact that i haven't had a monthly car payment for about a year now (all 3 cars paid off finally) or just plain out of touch; but if i'm pricing cars and i'm looking in the mid to upper 30k range approaching $40k, i might as well start looking at audis or something...personally, i'd pay 30k for a decked out for the 240 replacement over a base model Z. but hey that's just me. you mentioned being able to buy a used Z at a decent price. if i'm gonna spend around 20k on a car, it might as well be brand spankin' new with a warranty you know?

ps. i like the genesis. you can get one that's got the nice brakes and hid's and leather and stuff. if nissan doesnt bring an s-chassis replacement and the genesis is still around in a couple years, i'd consider buying it-or the ft86 if it looks anything like the pics floating around.

but hey to each his own-if you got 30k for a base-Z by all means get it and enjoy it

exitspeed

Man you are totally missing the point here. The Z is around $30k (Dave lets just call it $30 to START). With any kind of actual options out the door you're looking at low $30's call it, $33k.

Toyota is projecting the FT86 to START at $20. That in NO way would be a car competing with the Z. It's also going to be a small MAYBE 200hp 4cyl engine. Again, NOT competing with the Z. It's not even close. That's like saying the Z competes with a Vette. It really doesn't.

The SX can range from $20k to $29K and still be placed perfectly fine in Nissans' lineup.

The problem I think you're having is that you are comparing it to the old SX. The OLD Nissan made the OLD SX. This is a new Nissan. With better engineering and a more clear idea of who they are and what they need to do to truly be competitive. The GTR is the epitome of that.

Lets be honest, the SX failed hard in the US because it was under powered and over priced. We know, and Nissan knows this.

But there's also another reason the Nissan failed, and that was actually the lack of direct competition. Think about it, there was the far more expensive GT cars on the market like the Supra, RX7, 3000GT, and Nissan's own 300ZX. Those cars were well over $10k more then an SX. The SX's more direct competition was the ford Probe, and Mazda MX6. And come on, those cars failed even harder then the SX. At least the SX had the right chassis.

So fast forward to 2008 and things are much different. There are actual cars that would compete with a new SX. The Genesis, which starts at $22, the FT86 which will start at $20.

I could ramble on and on about how many ways this works. But I think I've said enough.

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ronmcdon

Idk, I think 20k-something dollar range rwd was dominated by the Mustangs and Camaros.
the Miata was also popular with certain customers.
These weren't terrible cars either at the time, and much better handling than muscle cars of old.

I know I would have gladly taken a Camaro over the 240.
Older Miatas still dominate several diff types of track events till this day.

exitspeed

I don't see a Miata as a 240 competitor.

I don't think people were cross shopping muscle cars with Japanese secretary cars either.

Even now, I really don't think there are a lot of people that would be cross shopping the Genesis and Camaro. They are just too different as far as personality goes.

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Bushido

^ FYI, Hyundai used the Mustang as the target for the Genesis during development.

you better believe that Nissan will take into consideration the competition of the v6 neo-muscle cars out now.

even though i foresee the new SX to be lighter and less powerful...

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drift freaq

Ya and as a result the Genesis is a big car. Its the freaking size of a G37. The G35/Skyline Gt350(In Japan a Syline GT350 would be considered a entry level vehicle for its model) did not sell well in Japan due to its size. The 350z sold better.

Size is a big deal(when it comes to entry level sports oriented vehicles) and its why both the 350 and the 370 are visually smaller cars. I would agree with on the a New SX being smaller and lighter and definitely less powerful.

Though at the same time it would wind up being the better tuner over the Hyundai.

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upsdude

Yup, it probably would since Nissan is a more established brand. the aftermarket support would be there for sure, even if they screw up and put in another truck motor hah. People still have that "eh? it's a HYUNDAI!?" kinda reaction to the genesis-which sucks since I think it's a nice car, even if it is overweight. it comes with a kick-ass warranty, nice creature comforts, and I personally like the leather interior...that and you have a good number of trim levels to choose from. At least Hyundai is trying to make an affordable RWD car that's geared towards the tuner folks, you know?

Walperstyle

ewww, fanboy talk

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spooled240

the genesis is big...but then again there aren't very many small cars out there anymore. My s14 looks like a toy when I park next to a lot of these new cars lol

upsdude

yup, and people nowadays like comfort and all the little gadgets...

drift freaq

Regardless the Genesis has yet to prove itself and is to large. Its larger than a used 350z and you can have a used 350Z for 10k shit 4 years ago people were still paying 10k for Kouki s14's.
I will take the used 350Z long before I would touch the Genesis(hell I would not even touch a Genesis, LOL). No payments less hassle I could care less about Hyundai's warranty. I am gonna go with a company I know has sports car history when it comes to Sports cars.

Hell even when Nissan introduced the 240Z they had already had sports car experience for years withe 1600 and 2000 Roadster.

Oh and if Nissan brings out a dope SX replacement I would consider.

Sorry guys but nothing you say is going to make even think twice. Hyundai a Korean economy car maker that has decided they want to play Sports car, but can't even get it right with the first car. IMO

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mad-ass

I have a feeling that I'll own my S14 for good 5 more years before I even consider to buy 350/370Z.

Nissan really just needs to start making S14's and S15's again and call it good.

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kingkilburn

When you can look at what made certain cars successful over the years it can't be too hard to get it in the ball park on your first try. Look at all the start up super car companies that come right in with 200+ mph cars that still manage to look and sound good. I would think that a sporty coupe couldn't be that hard to get right if the market is there.

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98s14inaz

^this. That concept looks like utter [email protected] Thanks but no thanks.

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spooled240

lol even the new civics and corolla's are getting big! compare the original 86 corolla to a new corolla S haha

I love Z's and G's but they are too big for me. IF nissan makes another silvia/SX I hope it's not a big car but I'd say it will definitely be bigger than the old s13/s14's

kingkilburn

The 86 was not the original.

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upsdude

hmm, well no one's forcing you to like the genesis, but that kind of closed mindedness is what doomed the Titan when it went up against the die hard brand loyalty of the "big 3" truck makers . Rhys Millen seems to be doing a good job of building up the Genesis' racing rep by winning Pike's peak. It's true-Nissan has the sports car heritage. but that didn't seem to play a role when they decided to screw the USDM market by fitting the s-chassis with a KA instead of the SR that the rest of the world got.

OK, so america got the Z-sports car. what else did WE get from Nissan? Skyline? nope. Pulsar gti-r? nope. hell we didn't even get the s15. Finally we get the GTR, but seriously, how many of us can afford one?
No matter how prestgious Nissan's "racing heritage" is, here in the states we don't really get to benefit from it. I don't know about you but the sentras, with the bubble but design, wasn't doing it for me. even if it did come with the "se-r" badge-what is the chassis code? b13 or something? either way...just fugly. they couldn't even do the 200sx right...is just morphed into the damn sentra lol. Racing heritage doesn't mean a damn thing if the people in charge can't put together a good lineup.

Lastly, say what you like about the genesis...not just you freaq, but to everyone else who doubts it. Everyone has to start from somewhere. if it fails, it fails. but hey at least Hyundai's trying.


that's my main gripe with nissan. aside from the infiniti division, the nissan cars the past few years have been ugly. the maxima and altima coupe look nice, but that's about it. and personally i don't like the design of the Z.

Just checked the build your own altima deal on the interwebz. for 3k less than the base 370 you can get a coupe that's got the same engine. Nissan could just make this sucker RWD and call it a day.

P.S. people used to make fun of anything and everything that was made in Japan...well we know how that turned out

drift freaq

It really has nothing to do with being close minded. Fact is I feel Hyundai failed and I am just not a fan of Hyundai. Never have been. I would buy a Corvette C6 before I ever bought a Hyundai.
As far as your whining about the whole racing heritage thing LOL. Kids these days. I started out with Datsun 510's and then moved to 240Z's yes I am older.

Sure anyone can throw tons of money at a platform and make it perform better. Like your example of Rhy's Millen and of course he is going to take the car and play with it since they sponsored it. I.E. free car and financial backing.

Hell Mitsubushi makes terrible cars but people still love the EVO though I would not own one. May perform great but also will fall apart in a few years. LOL

Oh and as to your argument about the KA there are several reasons we got it.

1. Americans love of torque VS HP which the Japanese have taken note of.
2. At the time the unpopularity of Turbocharged cars by the American consumer
3. Nissan North America's at the time unfounded fear that a turbocharged SX would upstage the NA Z car sales. ( Which actually happened in Japan with the 180sx and turned out to have been a true fear)
4. Nissans wish to rekindle the entry level feel of a sports car with the 240 moniker because of the Z hence a 2.4 putting out 150 hp. Aka same numbers as the S30 Z.

Now given all those factors is why we got the KA. Plus Nissan was not exactly in good financial shape in the 90's due to upper level mismanagement.

as far as what Nissan is doing now company wise they are striking on all cylinders i.e. they have performed through this recession a lot better than A their largest competitor Toyota and B Honda. Don't believe me? Look at the financial data. The company is in much better shape than it has been and is poised to easily deliver on yours all the fanboys wishes.

Whether it works for you guys is purely up to your personal taste. Personally I do not like the Genesis and theirs is nothing anyone can say that would change my mind. It looks ugly and big to me.
Larger than a 350 or a 370. I consider 350's to have slipped into the easily obtainable range as well.

Lastly I said this before and I will say it again. Any car I am going to be playing with Performance wise is not something I would buy new to begin with. Payments, factory warranties, excess costs to modify because its new all add up. These are all factors that would make me wait till damn near any sports car is a few years old before even buying it.

If you want to buy something new and drive it right out of the box and do nothing more? Buy something new. If you want to start going done the modification road? Stick to something used and save yourself some headaches.

I would buy a GTR new for that very reason. I would just drive it as it is and be happy.
I cannot say that about most new cars. Most new cars I would want to modify.
I can say the 370 could be bought new and driven as well. Then again I would wait a couple of years to let someone else eat the depreciation on it. LOL

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upsdude

wasn't whining about racing heritage, just rebutting your statement:
and i'm not a kid...i have a kid, but i'm no 20-something...so please refrain from the name calling.

you have some good points, but if Nissan decides to bring in a 240 replacement that looks anything like that blue concept car it's gonna fail IMO. how much of nissan doing well during the recession is due to the success of infiniti? it's not a rhetorical question...seriously i'm curious what nissan did that made it fare better.

and i still think the 350/370's are just ugly, attainable or not.

spooled240

The genesis is pretty big, and the front styling is pretty weird-looking IMHO.

it looks like: \ _ /

But I have to give props to hyundai for putting a considerably cheap RWD car with some performance and a soon-to-be huge volume of aftermarket support.

yea i know, idk why i put original lol

irax

unsubscribbed.. i'm sure if there is any good info on the return of the SX dave would call me about it.

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drift freaq

That Blue concept was a concept from like 4 years ago. Trust me I have seen renderings( out of Japan not the U.S.) for the 240sx replacement and they are not the Fiora concept.

I find it completely funny that you think the 350 or the 370 are ugly but love the Genesis. Seeing as the Genesis bites off the whole 350 and G35 design and does it worse. LOL

On and sorry you took offense to the statement about kids. It was not directed solely at you. Plus its hardly name calling and if you think it is then you're pretty damn sensitive. lol

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murda-c

I think the genesis looks more like a tiburon or supra.

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