silviatunersr20

I cant wait for the next car battle lol! Like the 09 C6 Z07 (ZR1) 700hp or 2010 base model C7 LS7 which is the Z06 now. Whatever it may be I still love my car battles!

kouki_s14

exactly why i called it a 240 forum, you're the one that wanted to get technical

I brought up 911 because it's been tested against a 911. You dont see Nissan taking the GTR around the world with an Evo in its tracks. If Nissan wanted to build a car to beat the Evo, i doubt they would have to try very hard.

It's being compared to something twice its price to show that it can do what the 911 can do, but luckily you dont have to pay for a 911. Why cant you compare similiar performing cars? Seems like a good platform to me. It's the best way to see which is the best bang for your buck kind of thing.



Why would i want a GTR to be luxurious? Why wouldnt i want a car to be luxurious? I dont care if the navi, stereo, seats are heavy. If it performs while being heavy and keeps me comfortable then thats a big plus.
If i didnt want a luxurious car then i would build a car myself and make it fast, but i cant build a luxury car.


Then you're obviously in the market for something else, Nissan isnt pricing it for you. Nissan is making this car for the people who want a luxury performance car and that dont need to haul a family around. If you got the money for this car then you can probably afford to get a SUV for other duties.



But you still have to adjust it manually at the track to get it to perform the way you want. Eh some people are just lazy.

Tire size doesnt mean anything unless you can get heat into them, most drivers cant ever use the full potential of 305 tires all around. You better be running some high hp numbers for that heat and to keep it at temp, so that means high boost, which then plays into the reliability factor. You're not going to weigh 3000lbs with thick comfortable leather seats, navi, etc(remember from my point of view it's supposed to be as luxurious as a GTR).

wth? are you still considering buying parts from the dealer? come on....
endless, pbr, project mu, etc will have replacement parts within months if not sooner. Not to mention it may perform better or just as well for low costs. Just stop looking at those dealer prices already...it's a pointless fact



So how is this car going to have AC? Again remember your "built evo" has gotta have AC. I love my AC. So you will have a fully built 4 cylinder running 500+hp? Little less? Little more? That motor is going to run HOT, which means you need a thick radiator and FAT FMIC, which means it'll block the AC, which mean......no AC. To me, that is no longer a car that can be daily driven.

You cant really say that youre working on your own car since you're paying $8000 to someone to build your engine. You will probably pass a GTR on a track sooner or later, but that driver was obviously not putting it to its full potential. You will need to strip even more amenities, sacrific more reliability, comfort, etc on your Evo to compete with a driver that can take the GTR to its limits.

you have one hell of an uphill battle against the GTR.

If i had the money i could probably build an Evo to compete with a GTR too. but there is no way in hell i would want to drive it everyday. You cannot take $68,000 and build an Evo with the same characteristics as the GTR, period. Is anything i'm saying getting through?

Slam

I recall seeing your quote, but I probably forgot since I had to just skim much of the content in this thread.

I can see Porsche being a little bent that their flagship 911 is getting out gunned by a Japanese sports car. But, I don't think they really care that much. Most Porsche customers that can afford a 911 turbo don't really care about these nitty gritty details such as Nurburgring times, 1/4 mile ET's, which car one the last time attack etc..

Most of these guys are too busy with their lives making money and don't hesitate dropping the dough on expensive vehicles such as the 911 turbo. They want the Porsche for the prestige. Most (not all) of Porsche's customers for the Turbo don't really care about cars that cost less that are just as fast or faster.

When I was at the Porsche dealer a few months ago, most of the guys I saw there were just more concerned with: what color to get, tiptronic or manual, should they opt for the sport seats or not.

I was chatting with the sales guy about the GT3 RS on the lot and how low the fascia was to the ground for a production car. He said that most (not all) of the guys that buy the car don't even know how to really drive them and they don't really care to leave the driveway at an angle!

An example is the 350Z compared to the Boxster S. Performance is close, price gap is significant. It's just a different customer. I don't think Porsche is that concerned with the Z car.

I think the car's that will be impacted most are performance cars such as the Z06, M3, Cayman. All Performance oriented vehicles with close price points with less overall performance vs. the GTR.

StaticX27

Why are we even comparing modified cars to stock cars? That's on par with masturbation.

Sure, I can build a 240 to keep up with a Ferrari, and probably for significantly less than the Ferrari's value. Comparing an Evo anything to the GT-R is like comparing chocolate and shit.

0100

Yeah and that is why I am comparing a built evo to a gt-r because it's the best way to see which is the best bang for the buck.




Like I said that is on your pro list as back seat is on my pro list. I can't believe lux and gt-r are in the same sentence...



I know they aren't marketing it to me, probably the reason I didn't buy it. If the price was 10k lower and the weight was 500 less I probably would have looked over no back seat and bought one.

This is a very tough car to compare something to because of it's awd, price and performance. I said earlier I don't think the 997tt is a good car to compare the gt-r to, not because of performance but price, and Slam brings up a great point on why it really shouldn't be compared to the 997tt.

New car it's the z06 and m3. I think it will beat the m3 but not the z06.




Takes 2 seconds, but like most porsche owners I can see them thinking it's a hassle to pop the hood and turn a dial. Most would have no clue what to do. This is why I don't agree with phreze. Most of the people who buy this are just going to drop it off and have a $216 oil change.




It will have more than 500hp less than 800hp to the wheels which will be plenty to get heat into the tires. Yes I am running a bigger more efficient yet lighter radiator and oil cooler. Bigger intercooler that weights little heavier than stock. Bigger intercooler piping which are lighter than stock. Everything swain BBE coated for heat removal. Will have no heat issues running hard on the track or road.

Ok if you want all that lux crap add 500 so 3500 vs 3800.


Ok it's pointless for you and me but not for everyone buying or looking to buy this car. Not everything will be able to be bought aftermarket. Wonder how much hubs are going to cost when they need replacement? How much are 21" tires going to cost?




It will have a more efficient radiator, and the intercooler is a lot thicker but not a lot wider. So it doesn't really block that much more air flow. I see no problem running ac at all. That said I never use ac and looking at the weight I may remove it. Maybe it's because I am up north but I never use it. I like the windows down, but I know some can't live without it. Running around town with the ac on or down the highway would be no problem. You are not even really on boost in those situations. Don't even see a problem in spirited driving with the bigger radiator and oilcooler. If you are at the track or mountain running hard no one is going to be running ac not even the gt-r and if they are they are insane.




You know what I mean by "working on my own car", even top race team have an engine builder. Like I said I am not fucking around and went to the best 4g63 builder in the world. Lot's say better than jun or cosworth. Yes I could do it for myself but I wouldn't save that much more and it wouldn't be as close to as good.


I love uphill battles, it just makes the victory that more sweet. I promise it will be full interior, heat, radio, carpet, no cage, abs, airbags when I post time slips and in car track video.

Performance characteristic I think you can match(exceed) that of the gt-r and that is what I am trying to prove with my build. I think your view of this car is a little slewed. I mean you are comparing it to a stock 997tt which if you have ever been to a pca event is no way even close to the fastest car on the track. I know you guys think I am insane but I didn't just come up with built evo > than $68k gt-r out of thin air, and to top it off I won't even be close to $68k or even $58K with no tax. Plus ball up a built evo much easier to re-coop your total cost selling off parts vs gt-r. I bend the evo chassis it's junk so I am out 10k. Bend a gt-r chassis it's going to be a lot more than 10k. Yes you can part out both but you won't re-coop as much of your total investment with a new car. Just rolling it off the lot you are in the hole.

Nothing else really to say, will just have to wait and see in 08.

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bardabe

damn so buying the new gtr is probably cheaper than what some paid for an R32 GTR. hm yeah I wanna see this car in person. LA Auto Show Anyone?

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xpl2007

Who cares. ZO6 will spank it all day long and for the same price. There using the wrong car to compare it to... Im not a corvette fan but the new corvette coming out smokes the old even sicker. Nothing like the old school cars sorry,,,,, Supra,,,,Silvias,,,,Skylines,,,Hondas,,,,Volkswago ns,,, Mazdas,,, pick any one of those from Japan 1992 and you win... $70,000 for the new GTR? Crazy price. I have seen the new GTR on the track. Not impressed. I will take a RHD one though. I would take the 350z with swapped out skyline motor any day over the new GTR. Thats all they had to do in my book. Of course im bias on touge a drift cars...lol

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kouki_s14

You're only proveing the performance aspect of the whole matter. That can easily be done with countless cars, but again that was never my point. Like i said before it wont have the qualities the GTR has to offer.




If you dont want the luxury items and you want a pure track GTR, strip the thing and there you go. But for the market Nissan wants to sell the car to, it has to have luxuries and i sure as hell am not going to complain. Again i emphasize the car being well rounded, not lop-sided like your Evo.


Nissan doesnt want everyone and their mom to have one, so they added comforts to the car. Unfortunately those comforts add weight and cost, which Nissan didnt mind since it helps makes it a bit more exclusive. It puts it in a difference class.

Slam's reason to not compare the 997 can be applied to you comparing it to an Evo as well. People will buy the GTR for its name, maybe not like a Porsche but in another sense. The GTR is a prestigious name, so prices can be inflated to reflect that. IMO the evo has no where near the same presitige as a GTR.




Then that's their fault for being incompetent, still your pricing doesnt apply to us. Thinking that any of us would pay that is condescending.



Since you're not even done building it, you really have no idea how it will perform. 500-800hp? You really think that 4 cylinder Mitsubishi block can last as long as an average car? ie 100,000+ miles? You will have to do some expensive overhauling. 500-800hp on 1000cc injectors(according to your page), you're already going to foul plugs every thousand miles or so.

And now, can your suspension, brakes, etc handle that extra weigh properly on the track? You cant just throw weight in there and not factor in details (as Nissan has already done for you in the GTR)



How often do Nissan hubs really need replacement? This car is not a Mitsubishi. I'm at 150k on my car, no major hub problems here. 150k is way longer than your 500+hp motor will last.

285/30/21 inch tires wont cost much more than your 305/30/18 series tires. 18 and 19 inch tires with low profile used to be expensive too, but once the sizes hit mainstream prices dropped. The industry is already regularally seeing 19/20s. Not to mention the base model has 20's iirc.


intercoolers that are thick cool your intake air more, which means the air that passes through them gets hotter(more distant through the IC results in more heat taken out with it into the rest of the cooling systems, width wasnt my point), which in turn blows warmer air at your radiator, but wait! if you turn on your AC the air gets even warmer before hitting your radiator. That's even if your AC is still working properly with the lack of airflow.

If you remove your AC then again i cannot consider the car drivable on a daily basis.

Dam are you getting mad? Cussing already. Anyways I'm sure if Jun or Cosworth focused ONLY on the 4G63, they would beat the pants off your builder, but they have bigger and better things to worry about.


It can be faster, more fun, but still lacks being well rounded. It still wont be as comfortable, quiet, smooth, etc. Basically it still wont be a GTR.

You can do that, but you sacrific the luxuries. Again the Evo will NEVER have the same characteristics of a GTR.

Most people who take that car to the track cant drive it, you should know that. If you've driven one then you know how smooth it is around the track, it's even hard to tell when the back end is going to give out.

Just a bit insane, because i stress the fact, it will never have the same qualities as a GTR EVER.

I dont think anyone plans on crashing the thing and of course it's going to cost more to fix, it's a new car and it's worth more. What was that supposed to prove? I think all that really said was the Mitsubishi's arent worth much.


i cant wait.

SimpleS14

edit: all I can say is this thread is an interesting read haha

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bamaboy

i'm tired of reading the multi quoting.....you guys should just call each other.....good debate though.

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bardabe

u made me laugh just had to get it out tere lol

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SimpleS14

I instantly thought about Initial D and Nitekids when I read this lol

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WILDACEX187

my eyes hurt. GOOO gt-r!!!

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90KAcoupe

ok im going to go ahead and say i havent read the whole thread basically cause im lazy and tired right now.

With that being stated.... I think the GT-R is a complete waist of money for nissan to bring this back. Yea its a sweet car.... Yea its a GT-R.... but who all on here is gonna jump out and buy one.... Many of the nissan fans wont get to own one...and only a select few will even get to ride in one.

To me coming from a more market-able standpoint. They need to offer a cheap 4 cylinder RWD platform. Kind of like the 240's were. A econ rwd car. (with plenty of potential) I think something along these lines would be a great investment for any motor company. When i say cheap rwd platform. I'm not referring to the solsitce or sky. In which both cars are completely over priced. If Nissan offered a low priced RWD 2 door sporty economical car. I personally think it would sell like crazy. If they designed it so it could be possible to offer a let say "GT-R" or "V-Spec" package that might come either 4cylinder turbo or v6. It would give nissan more of an oppritunity to grow on this line of vehicle.

just my $0.02 but why does it matter im a stupid 16yr old kid....

StaticX27

Hey kouki_s14, just one question. Will his evo ever have the same qualities as a GT-R? Wasn't quite sure from your responses :P j/k

To 0100. If you really want to compare the same thing, maybe you should be planning at the brand new price of an Evo instead of the price of a used car. That might lend a little more credibility to your stance on the issue. Otherwise you're not even talking the same thing :P

0100

Don't feel like doing quoting everything. Sorry getting lazy.


If you think the suspension on the gt-r is going to ride like a caddy and perform like a porsche you are insane. It's not possible to have both, you have to compromise something in the valving especially if it isn't adjustable. It's probably somewhere in the middle of a caddy and race car(more to the race car end I am sure). With double adjustable shocks I bet you can get the evo to ride as nice(ok pretty close) on the street as the gt-r and even better on the track. If we can find a gt-r owner this can be tested also.

I don't know why you think the ac will be that big of a deal. Especially with the bigger radiator and oil cooler. I see no problem running ac, many built evo's have with no problem. We will never find out on my car because I don't use ac, so it is wasted weight and hp sitting there for maybe two times I would really say "damn I need to put the ac on". This isn't an e-battle car I am talking about. I am talking about an actual car I am building so it's pointless for me to argue the ac and try to prove it. The car I am building is obviously a car that you wouldn't be in the market for, just like the gt-r isn't for me(after they gayed it up). Doesn't mean I can't compare it to the gt-r(price and performance wise).

I am the guy who would order the gt3 with ac delete. That is just badass, I mean new car with no ac, sick. If you and I were looking at the gt3 or 997tt you would probably go 997tt for the lux and I would go gt3 for the rawness. Different strokes that is all.

Again for me to try to point out that the evo could be made lux is stupid because the actual car I am going to test against a gt-r will not be lux so I can't prove it. You could always go mr leather interior in the evo with nav and sick stereo. Plenty of money left over use the cash to fly penske out to design a specific suspension for the car's weight yes this is completely asinine and just making a stupid point. Trying to build a car like that is stupid. My proposal is for the guy who likes the raw gt3 type cars. I mean a stock evo interior is the nicest car interior I have ever owned. Still would love to gut it and throw a race seat in it but my wife would have my balls and my son would have no where to sit. I also personally think the gt-r seats look horrible.

I wasn't trying to sound all great that I am having my engine built by the top 4g63 engine builder. It definitely came off that way though, my bad. I am trying to say 68k is a TON of cash and you can go best of the best and still be less than the gt-r. You can have a full long block from cosworth, 10k triple penskies, blah, blah. Yeah if you are putting it on a civic your are stupid, but a quality chassis and you have a nice car. Any 911 chassis going back to 73, evo, skyline, etc.


Replace fucking with messing and you will see it was in no way directed at you.

I wasn't being condescending look at what I wrote I said you or I wouldn't pay those prices. You will have to buy replacement parts at some point, this isn't made from the gods to run forever. Just pointing out it looks like it's not going to be like zo6 replacement parts.

This is all crap what it comes down to is power to weight ratio. I don't care what kind of wizardry you think nissan is going to put in the car it all comes down to P/W.

I raced tin tops and formula cars for a long time. 3 years in a formula car. FC formula cars are so primitive you would be amazed. Simple bike cable for throttle, rear wheel drive no abs or traction control. How can they run so fast... down force and power to weight is all that matters. The real wizard is behind the wheel and a good one doesn't need tricks. Just for reference this 30k formula car that I built ran 0:50 at lrp and I suck at driving.

I know for you personally the evo is not what you would be in the market for but let's just get down to brass tacts for shits and giggles.

Both cars have similar brake setups and pads, even allow the gt-r to run similar tire compound, and lets say the gt-r stock suspension is so amazing that it is on par with double adjustable ohlins, and both cars are abs and awd with an advantage to the gt-r. It comes down to p/w.

gt-r 3800 500hp to the wheels
evo 3000 500hp to the wheels

You honestly think the gt-r will beat the evo with the same driver...

Haha... Seriously I wish we were all sitting at a tavern or something talking about this. It would be so much easier and I know some of the things I type come off wrong, in real life it would sound different. It's hard to convey your point over the internets. I know drift took me the wrong way in real life I am sure we would have been laughing at eachother. I get in heated debates with my buddies and we say all kinds of fucked up shit and call each other everything you can think of. It's just funner that way.

Also this week long thread would have been less than 1 hr in real life. lol

You have no idea how hard I was laughing at this. It's fucking true and I didn't even realize I did it. I need to pop initial d in and try to find this, I haven't watched inital d in years. It's probably a perfect quote. lol It sounds like something the dude in the yellow fd would say, can't remember his name.

Kinda confused on what you mean, sorry. Not hard to do.

Edit I think I see what you are saying, my build cap would be whatever the new evo X sells for at the stealership. That is a good idea. Will have to crunch numbers still have a long way to go but I think I will be over. Will have to see though. Very good idea.

kouki_s14

I never said it was going to ride like a caddy, but i wouldnt be surprised if the suspension was adjustable with a button inside the cabin. Either way i'd still prefer the smooth powerband versus a 4 cylinder that wont hit boost until 4000+rpm.

How many 500+hp evos have AC? Well i guess it doesnt matter since youre not using it, which already means it shouldnt be compared to the GTR.

You're right the GTR is obviously not for you. It does mean u cant compare it to the GTR. Why? Because you seem to think that the Evo can be better or equal than the GTR in every aspect, when in reality the Evo can only match bits and pieces.

Different strokes, exactly, but that still doesnt mean you can compare the Evo to a GTR.

My point exactly. Even if you tried to make it luxurious, it wouldnt be up to par.

Exactly.

I have a raw car as well, but this is an entirely different matter.

Trust me, it gets A LOT better than an Evo.

I dont think the looks of a seat have much to do with comfort.

My point exactly again. The way we see it, GTR vs Evo, is the way you see a Civic vs Evo comparison. Okay maybe not a fwd, but for example a 1998 Subaru Impreza L AWD. To me a GTR vs Evo comparison is as ridiculous as a impreze L vs evo comparison.


Your Evo isnt made to run forever too, but im sure a GTR will last way longer than your 500+hp engine. I want to see that motor run 100,000 miles without a hole in the block from a shooting rod.

You forget, my argument is that you need all that extra weight from the amenities. You estimated 3500 vs 3800 so your Evo has a 300lb advantage that is just about what the 911 has on the GTR. If that is the case then your Evo will be compared to a Porsche? come on....(keep in mind the weight added)

Eh P/W ratio for this perspective is thrown out the window since this is never going to happen, it's irrelevant.

What does any of this have to do with my argument?

When did it get back down to 3000lbs? Add all that things you need to for the Evo to START comparing to the GTR and like you said maybe it'll weigh 3500lbs. That's what a 911 weighs and even with the 300lbs the GTR still clocked better track times. That's out the window then isnt it?

I've been trying to watch what i say, not sure if ive been successful, but i dont mean to offend anyone. It would be a million times easier to do this in person, but that wont happen so the forums will have to do i guess. It's been enjoyable so far.

It's hard to explain my points over the internet, but i can see what you're trying to say. I think i understand you, but logically in my head it doesnt make sense because the two cars are in completely different classes. I wouldnt compare a GTR to a Ferrari F430, even though it has about the same power, it's pointless. The two names just dont deserve to get compared.

0100

Brought up the formula car just to show p/w is really all that it comes down to when you are talking performance. That was all.

I did 3000 vs 3800 because that is what my evo will weight. I know you don't think it can be compared to the gt-r, but it will be whether you or I like it. For the simple fact at some point it will be at the same track, strip and road as a gt-r.

Well I think we pretty much exhausted this topic. lol

I can't wait to see some dyno sheets of the gt-r, I bet the tq and hp curve will be very nice.

SimpleS14

This is extremely off-topic...but since its a Nissan and its currently a heavy car...

I'd like to see what Nissan does with the next Z (possibly 370Z).


The guy with the yellow FD from Initial D is Keisuke.

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Kn1ves

So I'm going to build this go-kart and it'll be faster than any EVO ever. Think mid-engined twin turbo LS7. It's only going to cost $10k. It'll weigh 1000lbs. Lets race best 2 out of 3!

/throws fuel into the fire

PS. Oh and I drive for SCCA and Open wheel racing and formula 1. just thought you kids would like to know.

/+1 to my ego

God I hate being late to the party.

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0100

-----------------------------------------

Kn1ves

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StaticX27

Actually no, what I meant was the fact that you're building your car with the base price of a used evo. As you've said, just driving the vehicle off the lot will depreciate it's value significantly. Thats what I mean, you're using used car pricing, and then applying your thousands of dollars in mods and after that, comparing it to a new car's price tag. Of course it'll be cheaper, Why don't you apply your thousands of dollars of mods to an Evo based on it's original new car pricing?

drift freaq

Well he finally admits he has an ego which was pretty much what was fueling this whole debate.

I stepped out of it because I had made my points. I had called him on his mistakes and accusations. True that, in public it would not have gone on,because everyone would have been rolling, when I proved his points were baseless without true facts.

0100 I will say this nicely as other people have said to you as well. You cannot take a car built mostly as a track machine only and then base it against a production vehicle, any production vehicle! Its not a rational scientific comparison.

Now putting aside everything like I,Static,S14_kouki and several others pointed out as well, comparing a different class used vehicle to a new vehicle is not a logical or reasonable comparison as well.
Ok lets sum this up:

You think the GTR is overpriced

You think its a great car

You think your EVO is the absolute tits to the world

You think your tits to the world EVO with insane amounts of cash can beat the GTR.

The only two valid points to the whole thread are your thinking the GTR is overpriced and you thinking its still a nice car. Unless of course your lieing in one of your previous statements about how you respect it.

Everything else has been speculation on your part which I had proved and others had proved several times. Instead of just saying ya I don't have figures but I think I can do it, you insisted it was a fact. Yet you submitted no proof. (speculative HP build numbers are flimsy proof)

When proven with facts by others and I, you started throwing other cars into the mix to avoid admitting you had been exposed on the speculation front. That is a Ego manauver which you finally admitted you had and exposed that for it.

Had you only sucked it up originally and said you know what guys I will go out and get the figures to show this would not have gone on for as long as it did.
Honestly, if you think you can do it and go out and do it, I would prop you. I won't prop or respect anyone that makes wild assumptions like you have without doing the footwork.

As it stands the points that should end this discussion right now are:

the GTR has lapped the ring 1 second faster than GT2

You do not have any ring lap figures for the EVO compared to the GT2( let alone your EVO)

You feel the GTR is overpriced . A valid point from your point of view

Some of us feel its a a lot of car for the money. A valid point from our point of view.

The latter two points will not be proven wrong or right until the car is released and real world tests against other cars besides the GT2 prove points and value and reliability show it was worth the asking price.

In final to do your comparison right . We would have to take a new EVO and bolt on parts to bring it up to the cost of the GTR and then start the testing.

In the end though most people would still cry foul. Though they are both AWD, they are two completely different classes of cars. That will never fall into the same catagory and were built with two different purposes in mind.

Now maybe you could build a EVO to beat it. It would never be the kinda of car the GTR is going to be.
That pretty much renders the basis of your arguement irrelevant to reality.
Its been fun but once again its pointless.

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FRpilot

i dont know what you expect for a cheap rwd econo car.. but whatever company takes this on will probably market it around 20,000+. it will not be too cheap to many by then. when the s14 was available in the US market, it was going for 22000+ and at the time many people felt that it was overpriced and spent their 22k on an integra GS-R instead. that's why the s-chasis faded out in the US.

production cost of a rwd car is more than fwd layout due to driveshafts, differential, and other parts. part of the reason why most econo cars out today are fwd layout.

the rwd cars available today are upwards of 20K+. to produce and market a car comparable to jdm s13-s15 silvia for today's society, motor corps would have to sell the car for around 22-25k to be profitable. at that point, most people in the market for a new car would probably spend an extra 5-8k and buy an evo/sti, 350z, s2000, etc compared to an ECONO rwd car. i mean, what did the mazdaspeed turbo miata go for when it was available, like 24k (since i recall every generation brand new miata msrp is always around around 18-20k)? even the mazdaspeed turbo mazda 3 and mazda 6 are starting at 22k.

although i admit i would like some kind of silvia revival and it sounds like a good idea, i have come senses that no motor corp will likely take it on.. above are my reasonsings. no turbo rwd car will be available that cheap. and the ones out on the market today are ugly.

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VTECommie

I dont honestly even feel like getting into this "argument" because it is a waste of time. Not to mention that this isnt even an argument. Arguing against 0100 is just stupid. There is no way around it. For the money you CAN have a faster car, faster around a track, and faster in a straight line. For the same money you can have a faster car that has leather seats and an in dash TV.(if that is your idea of luxury, to me its just a waste, cloth feels way nicer. Not to mention who in the name of all things holy buys a GTR for luxury? Has any skyline out there been for luxury? ever? My ass you buy a GTR for luxury) For the money of a new GTR I could have civic faster in the 1/4 mile and a fucking VW Golf faster around the track. Arguing over money and numbers is bullshit. I could build an evo faster then a GTR it wouldnt be hard.(I dont really see how spending 9G's so someone else can put together your motor is "building" but that is beside the point. Would I take a 10 second Evo that laps the Nurburging in 7:30 and has 3 in dash TV's with Panda Coat interior over a new GTR? Are you out of your fucking mind?? Of course not.

Now, lets be realistic here Peter Pan. Noone looking at GTR's wants a race car. They arent looking simply at numbers or number of features. They are looking at the car as a whole. Is your definition of a great car really lap times? Is your definition of luxury really leather seats?

Im sure you have all heard of BMW's saying "The ultimate driving machine". This is a name for a spec list. This list encompasses everything, from the thickness of the steering wheel, to the steering ratio to the stiffness of the accelerator. All great engineering companies(IMO BMW, Honda, Nissan, Ferrari, Mazda) have spec lists such as these. No shitty, break down all the time, designed by hot wheels, cheaply built Mitsubishi has anything like this. I have driven Evo's, STi's, Euro's, ricers, everything. Nothing, to me, beats the feeling of sitting in a well built car. You feel one with the maching sitting in an M3, or an S2000, or a Syline, or even a Miata. These cars are well designed cars, and by well designed I dont mean that they look good, which they do.(some cars dont have to hide themselves with giant wings, ugly bumpers and fucking spikes on the roof). Im talking about the stuff that doesnt transfer into numbers. Im talking about the stuff that makes you smile each time you sit down, the stuff that makes you feel one with the car. You dont buy cars to be fast, you dont buy cars for the leather, or for the monstrosity of the spoiler. In short, I feel that your argument is that of a prepubescent boy obsessed with Fast and the Furious. Yea, your evo is faster, at the end of the day im driving home in a GTR and your chasing after your crank (nothing like crankwalk) with a faster time slip.

Oh and about your Evo being faster, more reliable, and more luxurious(I dont by the whole star trek coilover BS). Im ready for the timeslip...

Ps: I didnt mean to be this personal, but Im really sick of people saying Ferrari's are overrated because they could build a supra twice as fast with half the money. The exhaust note of Ferrari's alone is enough to purchase one.

Cliffs: There are too many un-proven claims from both sides of the argument, not to mention that this argument is pointless. If we all worked with 0100's mentality, we would be driving turbo'd miatas.

Kn1ves

Trueno

/Shoots down whole argument with one word. minus the turbo.

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there's something here

0100

You should be a politician. What mistakes did you call me out on? How the hell can I give you facts on a car that isn't finished yet. Just like you can't provide facts on the gt-r because it isn't out yet. You need to read this again. http://www.zilvia.net/f/showpost.php...5&postcount=36

Looks pretty IMO to me. I feel like I am on a merry-go-round with you.


How is my car built mostly as a track machine only? It will have full stock interior, airbags, carpet. No difference in my evo then any other evo running the street. What is it because I have coilovers? Tons of street cars are running coilovers. The ohlins run smoother than a stock evo suspension. That is a fact, ask anyone who runs the ohlins. If you think my evo is a built track machine... then man you need some help.


Yup and I think my built evo is also overpriced, but I wanted awd and 5 seats so I had to pay the premium to get it. Could have went with a bunch of other cars and gotten the same performance for cheaper. A single seater formula car will run circles around the evo and be cheaper but it's only a 1 seater with no boot, and not road legal. So had to pay the premium if I want that crap. If you want the allure of the gt-r badge, supercar looks you are going to have to pay a premium.

I was really hoping it was going to be great, but the weight and dubs(more so then the price) have turned me off.

Nope, and for the record I think the evo is the one of the stupidest looking cars on earth, but you don't see it when you are in the drivers seat. Function over form.

So what does that make the $68k price tag of the gt-r then. Pretty fucking insane, and I won't even be close to $48k never mind $68k.

The engine, suspension, and awd I am sure I will respect. The bloated chassis, interior and dubs I will not.

I never said I had figures. Please quote me. I said all we can do is wait for both cars to come out. I posted track time and video of a similar built evo and what a stock zo6(gt-r should be close) dose at the same track(lrp) and said that was the best I can do for now. I never insisted it was fact. This is like the second time you keep trying to say I am posting shit as facts. Learn how to read. Do you really think a 3000lb evo making 500 awhp(my projected weight and hp) is that hard to do. I am not saying something crazy like 2500lb 800hp.

How the hell can you prove something with facts when the god damn car isn't even out yet. We are both speculating, well at least I am, you I guess have all the facts. The ring times aren't even official yet you moron.

What figures do you need? It's 500awhp on a built 4g63. You think that is a wild assumption? wow...

I haven't seen any official times, and it better not be the "evo" $$$ version. I really doubt it is the base $68k gt-r on stock tires, but if they get that boat around the ring that fast that is pretty amazing. Waiting on official $68k gt-r times.


Ok I will sell my evo roller and buy an X because that will be a fair comparison. wtf We aren't talking about a made up car. I am building an actual car that I intent to compare to a gt-r and every other car that is on the street, 1/4 and track. Guess what when a turbo miata runs circles around me, I am going to say I lost. Not some excuse "well it's not the same class", "well it will never be the kind of car the evo is".


No such thing as a catagory on the street or track days. Calling foul is an excuse bitch move. If I lost, I lost, I don't care if it was an enzo that raped me, I still lost. I can't stand people who use excuses in life "I can't go to the gym today I'm tired." Fagot ass excuse.

Trust me I don't want my evo to weight 3800lbs or roll on twenty ones.



It's funny because it's your argument that is irrelevant in reality. There are no catagories or classes on the street or track and that brother is reality.

Yes I know there are classes for race cars but 1)we are talking about street cars and 2)that is to keep power to weight ratio the same and allow the sport to be a more driver oriented. So please don't go the race car route with your rebuttal. If we are talking full out race cars the IX cyber evo beat the gtr's, just a little fyi. Man someone should tell them the ct9a chassis will never be the kind of car the gtr is.

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TougeHero.com l SilviaV8forums.com

0100

I hope your rambling about leather interior, luxury, and tv's wasn't directed to me. Everything I have written has been anti leather and lux. The crappy stock cloth interior I have in the evo (which I said was the nicest I have ever owned) is too nice for me. If it wasn't for my wife and son it would be gone with a single race bucket in it's place.

I never said anything about a race car, but we are talking about performance cars so yes numbers do matter and because looks, exhaust note, interior is all subjective they should be left out of the debate when comparing performance cars.

Actually I do when we are talking performance cars. When I bought my truck no.



"ultimate driving machine"

That was a bunch of subjective rambling. That was as bad as me saying I drive a formula car in the scca.

I thought we are talking about performance cars, I would hope you buy them to be fast. I know I do.

What evo IX has ever had crankwalk issues. Better get your facts straight bro.

At the end of the day you are driving home in a GTR. You say the mighty GTR gets beat by another car cheaper no less, yet you still say it so proud... "but at the end of the day im driving home in a GTR". Classic fan boy at it's best.

When the hell did I ever say it was more luxurious? Two identical cars with the only difference being one has well designed coilovers. You don't think well designed and setup coilovers are worth time on a road course?

I am not saying they are overrated just overpriced. If you can have a car that can perform the same for cheaper, then the ferrari is overpriced. Now if you want the looks and exhaust note of the ferrari then you are going to have to pay the premium to get it.





What it comes down to is drift freaq and VTECommie, you both basically feel an evo VIII/IX (or a turbo miata for that matter ) can't be compared to a gt-r. For whatever reason(age of car, car type, drivetrain setup, etc) other cars can't be compared to the mighty gt-r. So you guys live in fantasy forum/magazine world where everyone on the street, track and strip has a new car... and that new car will only be compared to the car(s) it was compared to in the car mags. The gt-r can only rightfully be compared to a 997tt, right? I have news for you when you get on the street or at a track day your world comes crashing down and reality sets in. You see everything from monster 911's to stock honda civics. I know my weapon isn't going to be a bag full of excuses.

You can't throw up a magazine or claim "not in the same class" in the real world.

That is just excuses and bitch loser talk. I will post 1/4 mile times and road course lap times in spring of next year. If the gt-r or any car for that matter is faster(and there will be plenty cars faster I am sure), I will say I lost. I am not going to say well that twin turbo zo6 cost more, or only has two seats, or I get better gas milage so I didn't really lose.

3000/500 vs 3800/500

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TougeHero.com l SilviaV8forums.com

kouki_s14

It is NOT in the same class. Period. It is the real world, yet you seem to be the only person comparing a Evo to a GTR. They are worlds apart. It is not bitch loser excuses. You're just being hard-headed and wont accept the fact that the two cars cant be compared the way you're doing it.

You want to be a bit more fair on this debate then compare new vs new. Everything in the car has to be brand spanking new, none of this 10,000 rolling chassis crap. There are no used GTR or rolling chassis GTRs to building a Evo against, so forget that. Both cars will have that dam new car smell, okay?

So 68,000 minus 30,000 for your Evo so you get 38,000 to work with. You paid 8k for your motor builder, you got 30. Next your coilovers alone was 4 so you're already down to 26. So to start competing with a GTR performance wise you still need:

Rest of suspension components ~$3,000
- All links, bars, bushings, control arms, etc
(based aprox. off of all spl stuff for a 240)
Chassis stiffening(without cage) ~$1,000
- Foam, strut bars, misc bars
Power upgrades ~ $7,000
- Turbo, pistons, rods, rings, cams, valves, crank, springs etc
(for 500+ hp in a Mitsu 4 cylinder, you better have some good shit)
- Thick ass IC core + piping, intake, exhaust
Cooling upgrades ~ $1,000
- Radiator, hose, thermo, fans
Drivetrain upgrades ~ $5,000
- Twin/triple plate clutch, flywheel, half shafts, drives shafts, and again more halfs shafts
- Not to mention there are 3 differentials
Fuel upgrades ~ $2,000
- Injectors, rail, fpr, AN lines, pump(s), etc
Wheels + tires ~ $4,000
- TE37s can get pricey if you want 10.5 widths for the 305 tires
Bodywork/Aero - $1500
- carbon fiber crap to lighten whatever you want to
- Fender flares for your 305 tires with custom work

Thats $24,500, soooo you have $1,500 left to buy the dvd navi and get penske to rebalance your suspension. Good luck.

Okay so i went low and high on some of the components, you can then take into account LABOR. Why labor you ask? You're doing it yourself?

NO, that is not an option, the GTR was built for you by someone else, so your Evo should be built for you by someone else. Has to be fair right? Shit if i could buy the GTR in pieces, it would be way cheaper and i could put it together myself. But dammit i cant, so, once again, TO BE FAIR, the Evo should be pieced together for you as well. No lego builders allowed.

I cant believe you cant understand what EVERYONE is trying to tell you, get over it, no one cares or likes what you Evo will be against a GTR. Sorry im starting to have an attitude, but you called me out by saying we were making bitch loser talk excuses.

Just get it through your thick head that none of us are going to compare it to an Evo, built or not. We dont care, it's a different class of car and comparing it is idiotic. An Evo will never become a GTR, stop trying to make it one.