KA24DESOneThree

Let's call this what it is: a failed intervention into a country that we had no business in, prolonged because we didn't want to lose face.

To the immediate skeptics: We're not currently involved? Are you kidding? Hundreds (to thousands, again depending on the source) of those killed were killed by US air strikes, and who knows how many were wounded. We currently have at least 1500 troops in Iraq as of mid-December, with 630 in an advise and assist role and 870 in a training role.

The death toll for civilians ranges from 12,000 to 17,000 depending on whose numbers you trust- the title was using NATO numbers. An additional 4,000-30,000 combatants were killed during the year- the number spread is huge but there really is no way to accurately whittle it down.

12,000 people doesn't seem like much, in the overall scheme of things, but it would be the equivalent of a quarter of my town.

The funny thing is that this kind of violence didn't happen on a large scale in modern times until after the Sykes-Picot agreement and, after that, the formation of the modern state of Israel. [I'm skipping a decade and a half here] The Sunni and Shia sects experienced a short period of increased positive relations in the '60s but this was destroyed by the Iranian Revolution. We fanned the flames of that revolution, which we didn't want, just like we fanned the flames of the '53 coup, which we did want. It just got worse from there.

Our involvement in the Middle East has been nothing short of disaster. We shot down a civilian airliner (Iran Air Flight 655, shot down from within Iranian waters by the USS Vincennes [saber rattlers for war with Russia, here is your hypocrisy]), forgave military action against our ships when it suited us (USS Liberty in '67 [Israeli action] and USS Stark in '87 [Iraqi action]) and generally meddled in business that was not ours. Hell, when we shot down Flight 655, we thought it was a goddamn F14 that we had sold to Iran before the revolution.

We played both sides in the Iran-Iraq war, giving Saddam live and reproducing cultures of easily-weaponized microorganisms (like anthrax and the bubonic plague, while also giving him satellite intel on where to deliver the resulting biological weapons) while selling arms to Iran so we could fund a drug war (which the President was lying to us about, before he wasn't) at the same time. We also supported Hussein despite his anti-Shia views, his anti-Kurd views, and his belief that Persians were inferior- of course, this was about ten years after we'd supported the Kurds during the Second Kurdish-Iraqi War and the Iranians pre-Revolution but post-Coup.

This isn't high school, and we aren't playing favorites to see who gets elected class president. There are lives at stake and our government continues to bloody its hands and the entire Western establishment continues to consider the Middle East (excluding the rich, sandy oil ones) as backward- even though we've done all we can to continue their tailspin into violence and sectarianism.

This is a plea, yes. A plea that no one in this country vote for war again. Not a hypocritical retaliatory war, not a war to protect a people, not a war to stop a war. OT: All wars we've entered in recently have been quagmires, misdirection, criminal or some mixture of the three. Have you read Herbert Hoover's notes on the lead-up to WWII? The truth about the Gulf of Tonkin incident? It's all lies and bullshit sold to us, and we, being the patriots that we are, press for attack and raise our hackles in anger and open our pocketbooks in red-white-and-blue fervor.

One cannot free a people by enslaving them. We removed the Iraqi people from a dictator's grasp and delivered them into the grasp of hatred, divisiveness and violence. Look up the number of suicide bombings in Iraq (and Afghanistan) before we got involved in those areas. Look at where the money comes from- our "allies" Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait and the UAE. The West is so goddamn busy making money hand-over-fist selling weapons and training to those four oil-rich countries to give a flying funk about truly helping Iraq or Afghanistan.

One also cannot enact righteous retribution by killing the innocent, even accidentally; it creates a chain with the end result being injustice. We were involved with and gave knowledge to multiple groups involved in airliner bombings and shootdowns ourselves- to start a war over what happened on 9/11/01 is preposterous and absurd. Our hypocrisy is showing.

Wake up, people. Your government is using you as pawns in a dangerous game, and if you don't vote to kick them out, or take steps to remove their funding, you're complicit. If you served in, or voted for, wars before you knew all the facts, you're complicit. I have blood on my hands and I can't scrub it off, so every day I go out there and I fight against war, against intervention, against theft, against robbery, against the government. That is my payment and my offering of contrition.

J3123MY

LOL. no one responded.

This is pretty obvious stuff, only the hardcore sheeple idiots do not know this.

No 240.. No id

12k is not much? Ummm.. Its a big number
The war only benefited the Bush family, so thats all that matter.

Now as far as Saudi, Kuwait and uae kings, they are just fat sheeps. I hate to say this about anyone (including enemies), but i had to Celebrate the day that the saudi sheep died. I can't wait for the others to follow him.

United Stated taking Uk and Isreal orders, unfortunately, the 12k people had to pay that price.

Not to mention the Iraqi victims, Which was way more than 12k.

Excuse my grammar, had to reply via mobile phone.

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SilviaHI

It's actually over one million civilians dead and like 5 million displaced since the US invasion. Lancet, one of the oldest medical journals in existance did a study on this.

Thumbs up to OP for writing about this.

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zombiewolf513

Its actually 50 million dead, 100 million displaced

supersayianjim

so we are at it again, with trying to overthrow Assad, supporting isis which is (Israeli security intelligence service). and pretty much setting up for another war in the middle east.

thank god putin steps in and saves the world AGAIN. lets see how obummer justifies supporting terrorists and calling them MODERATES now?

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KA24DESOneThree

Let Putin do whatever Putin wants in the ME. Same with China. Iraq is asking for Russian intervention- who are we to disagree?

Our meddling has created constant chaos for decades and the West has been causing problems for centuries. It's time for someone else to get caught in the trap and become a focal point of ME rage.

ISIS isn't Israeli. ISIS isn't some false flag operation- it's far more sinister. Besides, calling them ISIS is bowing to their wishes- DAESH is better.

Also, guys, if the ultimate goal is the elimination of propaganda and disinformation, please post vetted numbers. 50 million and 100 million are ridiculous numbers, and the numbers I provided were simply for the year 2014.

supersayianjim

you don't say??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMUlTSmNu0c

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supersayianjim

and here is the REAL reason for wanting assad to go.

http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns...yria-740568063

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justinbyrant

our entire involvement in the middle east since the 80s has been a fight we had no business being in

im gonna say something right now that's going to make a lot of people angry but just calm down and look at this from an objective point of view

WE BROUGHT 9-11 UPON OURSELVES

there its said now think about it, how many airstrikes did we perform in the 20 years leading up to 9-11

how many middle eastern people did we kill?

we started that war well over 10 years prior to 9-11 were we really all that surprised that they finally fought back?

was it really a shock that the children who survived desert storm and all the other operations that went on in the 80s and 90s were all grown up and so easily radicalized?

is it really a wonder that the arab people living in other areas of the world America included that are treated like scum and spit on and beaten for no reason other than how they look or what they believe are so easily turned to the other size?

someone who would never have thought of joining isis is now being shunned, and beaten and pushed around and finally decides that's enough

by no means is it right that they do the things they do but stop for just one second and think about this the other way around, what would we as americans do if another country spent 10+ years in America dropping bombs, telling us how to use our natural resources, forcing us to harbor soldiers of the very government that invaded and is occupying our country, overthrowing our leaders (different types of leaders I know but its still about upsetting the balance and making the people in power lose faith, it makes a dangerous situation more dangerous)

how would we as americans respond to that? probably not that much different from how they responded to us

justinbyrant

a pretty staggering idea is that in the 15 years since 9-11 our soldiers and weapons have killed more Arab children and by children I mean under 10 years old that they have killed Americans in the entire world, we have killed more children in those few country's than radical Muslims have killed Americans

Im pretty positive that we kill more people in those countries every few months than they have killed our soldiers since 9-11

everyone likes to point out the few thousand American soldiers that have died yet always seem to neglect mentioning how many millions of people those soldiers have killed in that same war