Croustibat

Indeed. I'd rather get a proven solution. I do tests for a living amongst other things, so i know how much that kind of thing cost, and why only serious company pay for them. I also know a compressor flow map directly derives from the computations that lead to its design, which tests usually complete, or confirms.

So basically, you dont want to pay for tests, and you dont have the design computations either. Maybe that is because you are not qualified for compressor wheel design ? Maybe that is because you used the chinese "lets copy someone else design and mod it a bit to call it our own" method ?

I also dont believe in miracle. Previously there was a "batmowheel", with the exact same kind of claim. Custom billet wheel without any analysis data.

Now this. Seriously ? Yet another miracle upgrade with no other data than a dyno sheet ?

A compressor wheel is a compressor wheel, what matters is its design, not the material or the machine used to create it. Yes, you can get more precision on the fabrication, tighter clearances, but if your design is no good, precision does not matter. And if you just copy someone else design and add "cool feature", then you dont know if it is good. By good i mean a regular flow with reliable efficiency, no strange surge zone, no fragile regions and so on.

Was this even fatigue tested ?

If this is true, then i wont hesitate anymore to call the BS flag.

dftsilvia

its true. dood lives in my area, and its my boys old car. nothing has been touched on it but this turbo upgrade because he broke the stocker.

[email protected]

Let me know if anyone ELSE has any questions. Thanks guys.

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hobbs

This should be interesting if it is paired with the perfect exhaust wheel...

[email protected]

YES! We are excited about this one. We use a GT28 turbine wheel.

Turbine Wheel Dimensions:
Inducer 53.9mm
Exducer 47.0mm

This will be great for the 300WHP - 350WHP guys

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Croustibat

So ... you will only answer people not asking about actual, real data ?




Seriously ... miracle turbo wheel and an SAFC "tune" ... do you even know you can only trim fuel with an SAFC ? You are telling people you get that kind of power with the stock timing map ? What a joke.

ch1873857

Croustibat.

If you are dissatisfied with this advertisers post please take it up with moderators. I know the report button is your favorite and we see how far its gotten you. In this case its the only thing you can do. The advertiser is not required to do dick for you. You may have a professional background with R&D and testing this kind of product but that is completely irrelevant in this case. He pays to advertise here. At least respect that. Go on.. go email every turbo manufacture that doesnt spoon feed you compressor maps. Your just trying to cause argument. Trying to deface someone that hasnt even had a chance to really sell anything yet. He's a paying advertiser and he will definitely have a little more respect from administration than some punk that is known for starting shit on this forum.. I'm not trying to be a dick, but I know if I spent money to advertise here, I wouldnt want someone trying to deface my reputation and my company because my standards werent high enough. (your trying a little hard to discredit this guy) . Its plain and simple if you dont approve. Dont post. This advertiser has been completely professional about the situation and has every right to report you.

[email protected]

No, we will answer any questions we can. I'm just frustrated trying to communicate with you. You come across very pessimistic. I have no problem answering questions, but I'm not interested in arguing.

Where did "miracle wheel" come from?

We built a sweet upgrade turbo for RB25 engines. That's my claim.

The dyno and engine data was supplied by a customer. Hopefully he will chime in on this thread so he can confirm all the details.

I can't answer any questions about the vehicle because it's not my car. We were not there when it was ran on the dyno. The customer was overjoyed, told us it spools like the stock turbo, they ran out of injector on the dyno, and then he sent us the dyno sheet. Simple as that. He said they are going to upgrade injectors and turn up the boost. I'm looking forward to seeing what power it makes on such a simple low-cost setup.

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240boi115

400's on a 1.5?!?!?!?! hooooe shaaaaat! xD 97 lbs!?!?! daaaang! not exactly sure what it is that you do....you take oem turbos and modify them to handle boost more efficiently? i know my friend bored out a t25 to fit a t28's internals...that kinda what you guys do???? id love to keep a smaller looking turbo (avoid boost lag and cops popping hood) but have decent hp numbers as well..

[email protected]

Yes we upgrade stock turbos. We also build new complete performance turbos.

PM us with your WHP goal and we can let you know what is recommended for your application. Thanks!

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Dolby109

Do you guys need or take the stock turbo's as cores?

What is pricing on the SR20 T25 turbo's? Any timeline when you expect they will be available?

[email protected]

Yes we need the stock turbo sent in to have your core deposit refunded. Or if you send your turbo in first, there is no core charge.

BILLET JB SR20 BOLT-ON TURBO

-Billet Compressor Wheel
-GT28 Turbine Wheel
-360 Upgrade Thrust System
-100% Bolt-on

$695 + $100 core charge.

Taking pre-orders now. These will be ready to ship in 2 weeks.

Thanks

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Croustibat

ch1873857 > I will account for your posts the day they contain an apology for being an insulting dick every time you post. I think i already told you that. BTW If that is the way you are "looking for sponsors", i dare say it is not the way to go.

Ok I will try to say it another way. Try looking at this from a potential customer point of view that has experience / knowledge about charged engines. They may not be the average poster on zilvia, and they may also no be your target for that upgrade, but they exist.

I am not saying you are a scammer, i am saying you are using the exact same communication methods and i think it is a problem when you are a serious shop. I would have thrashed you right from the bat if i thought you were. I think you have been tricked and have been over optimistic here.

The problem is that your claim is not just about a sweet turbo upgrade. Your claim is written in the title: "[email protected]".

If i read that well, you are telling that changing the compressor wheel, with an "SAFC tune" (aka not a tune), and adding 2psi of boost nets a 80-100HP gain. That is a 35~40% increase in power. The stock engine and turbo combo gives something like 10~15% more power when boost is increased to 12-13psi. 10~15% more power, with 3 times the boost increase. That is 3 times better, with only 1/3 of the boost increase. Your claim is about having a product that is 9 times more efficient.

Can you see the problem ? I cant believe anyone would get a 80-100HP increase from 2psi and a compressor wheel mod. In fact i dont think it would be possible even with a turbo that would give its best efficiency at 9psi and the flow required by this engine. Maybe if you add race fuel, higher compression ratio and a perfectly matched tune, you could get these results.

But on a stock engine ? With no tune ? No way.

Your claim is not "selling a sweet upgrade", your claim is "we do beat every turbine designers and manufacturers in the world with our product", and i find it very unlikely. That is why i ask for proofs of your claims, and you have none to back it up. No flow analysis, no speed analysis, no nothing.

Honestly, if someone came to you and say "if you just change the compressor wheel and add 2 psi of boost, you will get 9 times more power than you'd get with the oem wheel at the same boost increase", would you believe him ?

I would not. I would be skeptical, until i see some serious data about this.

Because the best explanation here is that something has been overlooked. A small shop besting every turbine makers and designers, or somewhere, someone made a mistake or lied ?

What i do believe is that the dyno was very very optimistic. I know people that comes to my friends tuner shop with a dyno sheet claiming 500HP and feeling something is wrong. A real dyno shows there is only 380HP.

I think this is exactly what happened. Your customer had a cheated dyno run to flatter his ego. He is probably not aware of it. That and/or there are quite some other mods on the car.

Now the usual scammers that try to sell "fuel magnetizers" and various other miracle products, or engines running on water, they use the same methods.

They cant explain why or how it works, but it works,The common point is they all beat various physic laws and best all known people in the field with astonishing results.

Again, i am not saying you are a scammer, you would not have an advertiser status here otherwise.

I am saying you got overly excited about a faked result.

ch1873857

I dont need you to account for my posts. Im not sure what pedestal you put yourself on but your nothing special, sir. I called you an idiot. Your butt hurt about it still. 3 weeks later.... You are trying to make yourself sound like you are an authority will a wealth of knowledge. However, you have no actual credibility whatsoever. No one knows you. You come here thinking you are a governing body of all knowledge. Get over yourself and let people judge the sellers character and methods themselves. Its not your job. He claimed a really nice upgrade for stock turbo. (theres plenty of market for it..) thats it. the dyno is a reference all dynos are different. Could he have dynoed on the stock turbo with the same dyno before hand to compare? Yes. But he didnt. So unless your buying from him (your not) let his real potential customers make the decision.

BossHogg

His last post brings up valid points. The previous were getting annoying and coming to a "who the fuck cares" point. Don't like then don't buy. But we all have to agree there is some serious sketch going here. Piggy back tune, 2 psi, dyno etc. There is obviously some parts of the story that need to be cleared up. All we have is dyno sheet, it says what it says. That is all we can go by. Take it or leave it.

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Croustibat:

Yes, I completely understand your viewpoint. This upgrade turbo is not just a compressor wheel. It's a complete new cartridge with a larger turbine wheel and 360 thrust.

I'm not taking this dyno sheet as the bible, but it's not a big lie like you are making it out to be. This is customer supplied. What do you mean a "faked" result. You think the customer bought our turbo, then bolted on a $1400 Garrett turbo and sent us the dyno sheet? The numbers could be optimistic depending on the dyno but that's the main variable. It's a real dyno sheet with a real stock RB25 with our turbo (for real) at real low boost. Not fake.

Remember HP is a product of torque and RPM. The higher the RPM the more power it will make if top end allows. So if you really want to judge this result. Look at the torque. It's 252.9 ft/lbs peak torque. Which is very solid for low boost but not unbelievable.

The stock turbo is the weakest link on a RB25. Boosting a RB25 to 12-13psi with a stock turbo is like the engine breathing through a straw. The stock RB turbo has very small wheels for such an efficient motor. So as soon as you open up that restriction, your power gains will be tremendous compared to HP per PSI of boost with the stock turbo. It's apples to oranges.

The dyno sheet is to supplement the statement that we build a sweet RB turbo. Take it with a grain of salt, there are variables which can skew the results. Though it is a real dyno of our RB turbo at low boost. Which is impressive. And that's the intention.

Croustibat said: your claim is "we do beat every turbine designers and manufacturers in the world with our product"

Where did you get this statement from? We have never made some outrageous claim like that.

Please do not put words in my mouth, and please do not compare us with a scammer selling fuel magnetizers.

Thanks

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BlewByYou

Kingtal0n

lets get some dyno graphs in here for comparison. everyone post up whatever you can find, but only using the same chassis dyno.

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[email protected]

The land and sea DYNOmite chassis dyno is not so common unfortunately. It seems most have a dynojet or mustang dyno. I would say post ALL RB25 dyno sheets with low boost for now.

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Dolby109

Actually E85 would just max out the (stock) injectors sooner, making this kind of power hard to attain. Higher octane just decreases likeliness of detonation from high compression, it doesn't necessarily add any power...so you shouldn't need more than 93 with boost this low.

But I agree, I don't think this claim seems as outlandish as Croust does.

Croustibat

No, i think the dyno guy uses wrong parameters on his dyno that overestimates results. Or it was boosting higher than 9psi. Or both. This is a very common practice on dynos, for people that need an ego boost. The customer is not always aware of it either, but it is easy for the dyno operator to know what the customer comes for. If he is doing a base test before an upgrade, or is entering a competition, then he wants the real results. If he is buying a single pass after building the car, or it just looks like a street, modified car, then he wants the "ego boost".

Thing is, when people do mod their car, then get a high dyno result, they are going to talk about it everywhere and goat about it. And talk about the dyno place. And make videos on youtube. But they wont if the dyno result is poor. Huge numbers = more customers for the dyno operator. Simple as that.

You made that statement in the title of the thread. And then, again, in big bold letters just under.

You claim 330WHP at 2 psi more than stock, when the stock turbo barely manages 300 CRANK HP at 12-13 psi.

How come ? With a base setting at 7psi, i cant see the stock turbo being completely out of breath with 2 more psi, esp when people tend to run it at 12-13. It means it is quite efficient in that zone, when your turbo seems to be doing fine after 5000rpm only (it hits its best efficiency there).

But You are claiming to get an increase in power 9 times bigger than people get with the stock turbo, and without touching the housings either. With no tune, no nothing other than a compressor wheel (and now also a turbine wheel. But i think the small housings are also quite limiting factors, not just wheels- the bearing changes nothing on the flow map)

What really bothers me in your claim is that I have never heard of that power level with that kind of mod. I never heard of any turbo on the market capable of giving 330WHP at 9psi on an RB25. Simple as that. None. 2psi increase, no tune, + 80-100HP ?

It means your modified turbo is better than any available turbo option. which is exactly "besting every other manufacturers and designers".

Yet you are right, you did not put it that way. But it still means the same.

And i just cant believe that. If that is true, then congrats. But somewhere i cant believe it.

This sound too good to be true, to the point you should have realized something was wrong. But you chose to jump on that dyno result without verifying it, and started advertising with it.

This is where your ad starts to look like a scammers ad:
- claiming doing 9 times better than stock, and better than anyone else;
- refusing to give standard data on your product. No wheel size for a turbo ? Manufacturers do give the wheel sizes, why not ? Because then people would know you just use a standard billet wheel from another turbo ?
- no flow map either, or no indication about max pressure, overspeed or surge. The only data is "good for 450HP".
- basically, nothing that would support your outrageous claim.

That is the receipe for a communication disaster, and i feel it is quite important to point it.



On another note, I also cant help but ask "what is happening" between 4000 and 5500rpm" on that dyno curve. That looks like a weak actuator that cant do its job and / or surge to me.

Read the first post of this thread, then your answers to people asking for data, and tell me again how it is different from fuel magnetizers claims.

Kingtal0n

If you dont mind Ill tackle this

Dear crousti, you are right about all of that. Problem is, we dont actually know what the real story is, yet. And we may never know. Also, the boost is not a perfect 9psi no matter what; it could have been 9.8, 8.7, 9.5784, and where did he read the number? cold side? hot side? the pressure is a differential across the intercooler plumbing, changing from place to place. Maybe he measured 9.2psi at the throttle body where the hot-side is reading 11psi. We just dont know. could even be a bad gauge.


Ah crousti, have you ever seen what a safc does? those big wavy lines are most likely due to the safc's "tune", not his turbocharger becoming more efficient. there is no A/F curve and god knows what the timing is at. Also, why is there a SAFC if the injectors are stock? The maf should take care of any additional fuel, because it reads mass of air, not boost pressure.



Do not overlook the peak torque at 7k rpm. Do not overlook the fact that his compressor wheel probably flows well over 35lb/min and that engine is clearly making near 100% VE at 7,000rpm, which indicates that the valvetrain is setup for the high RPM. I suspect it has aftermarket camshafts, almost sure of it, I would be sure if I knew what the oem camshaft could do but I must confess I have never watched a live dyno of an OEM camshaft RB25 in my life.


It actually just means his compressor wheel flows more than 35lb/min with an efficiency island better than 66% (its not running off the compressor map, clearly)


Well, lets say his boost was really set to 11psi or something other than 9psi. You take one look at the torque and you can tell the compressor has more in it, still. boost can still be turned up. The final pump gas numbers once injectors are upgraded will tell much more about the compressor but we dont have those yet. For now, I feel you are right to be suspicious, we certainly need more information and a BUILD SHEET, PICTURES, DYNO VIDEO, etc... would really help clear this up, wouldnt it?


thats is most likely the safc, but again i question the need/use of one, since the injectors are OEM. Also, I have seen very large compressors mated to very small turbines give a bit of surge while building boost, that also causes that. I had once tuned an RB26 in a GT-R R32 motorex'd vehicle with a large turbo, no clue what size it was, but when building boost at lower rpms the boost would build right into the surge zone (to the left of the compressor map) at certain throttle positions. You could actually hear the compressor surge from inside the car on the highway at part throttle.

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funktown240

^^ Dude give it up! I'm pretty sure and speak for everyone and just STFU! What are you trying to prove? That this turbo is a POS? Why don't you start with EBay and ask every seller why they are selling knock off pieces of shit turbos?

Kingtal0n

he is just bored as am i. this is a great way to kill time for us animals. car nuts. people with more finger power than horsepower. hehe

the real moral of this story is that you cannot post anything anywhere online without somebody calling bs. you need pictures, videos, three different chassis dyno results, onboard a/f curve and post up timing maps fuel maps full build specs crankshaft counterbalance weights piston ring tension main bearing clearances head bolt torque specifications and two different boost gauge readings along with the map sensor / laptop video of a red box moving around etc...

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Croustibat,

-You're still putting words in my mouth.

-Still saying I claimed things I didn't.

-I did give wheel sizes. Look back in the thread.

-Precision, Forced Performance, Forced Inductions, Comp Turbo and others don't have compressor maps either. So I guess all their turbos are garbage too?

-I never made any outrageous claim. You're making the outrageous claims for me.

-Considering us a scammer and comparing our turbos with fuel magnetizers is disrespectful.

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Kingtal0n

I do love a good turbocharger conversation

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Thank you!

Exactly! It's disappointing for us. We were sharing this because we were excited. We are enthusiasts too and we thought it was awesome such a simple setup made such great power! It's disappointing because this makes us not want to share our customers results. We have tons of results BTW. The honda guys are making insane power with some of our turbos.

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edited post

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Croustibat

Next time, fact check before being overly exited. I cant believe it, you are a professional, you should know better. You trust this guy so well the thought of him being cheated and/or lying/omitting something did not cross your mind the slightest ? To the point of basing an advertisement on its unbelievable results ? Chances are, if they look unbelievable, that may be because they should not be believed.

Now please, it makes you not want to share your customers results ? Boohoo. That is advertisement, not "sharing result", stop insulting people's intelligence.

Besides i never said your product sucks, and i will write it again if you want me to. I have no experience in them, how could i say that ?

I say your advertisement sucks and is full of lies. Wether these were intentional or not does not matter to me. You just cant deliver what you promise here. You cant, because precision turbo nor garrett cant either.

As far as honda guys go ... i dont know if the ones you have in the US are the same as we got in Europe, but we tend not to take them seriously here.


Last note on your new king friend, you might want to check what he usually writes before going any further with him. He is an interesting fellow, to say the least. His mind seems to wander a bit too much though.


Back to this thread now.

You once again deny you are claiming to be better than turbo manufacturers, so quick reminder :

This is the title you wrote :
and this is the first post (big size and text deemed useless removed, but you can go back to the start of the thread if you prefer to see it).
You seem not to understand so i will say it another way :

This is advertisement, not "sharing results", and this is bullshit.


Not "your products are bullshit". Just "your claims on this particular upgrade are ridiculous".

That dyno sheet does not match the boost and tuning claims. Simple as that. And based on that dyno sheet, YOU claim this makes 328HP at 9psi with no other mods.

That is an incredible claim : a 9 times improvement over the stock turbo. You NEED serious data to back it up.

Here is what you need to do to get this straight :

get this car true specs,
then dyno it for real. With real correction values, and the real boost used.


Now of course, you can just ignore people that DARE say "look, something is not right here", and concentrate on your fan base yelling "STFU NOOB" like funtown. He cant be arsed to read what i write, so i did put it in bold this time, maybe it will catch his eyes.

But refusing to just admit you were misleaded by something so obvious is not going to help you get new customers.

Kingtal0n

the only way to prove its false is to put one of those turbos on your engine and turn it to 9psi and test for yourself.

hes right about one thing though, my mind does wander. Just now I was thinking about the tunneling of electrons of the mitochondrial transport chain from heme group to heme group (iron is just one of many) that generates the proton gradient necessary for driving the actions of the adenosine triphosphate synthase. Did you know that in the mitochondrial matrix, the PH is higher than in the cytosol? protons attempting to get inside the matrix drive the atp synthase, like a machine.
The book says that the synthetase (synthase) is 60 times more powerful than a diesel engine of similar weight. You gonna call bs on that too?

gosh, mind wandering makes me hungry.

a few more days and crousti will be off her .. cheers

Attached Images

synthase.jpg (120.6 KB, 5 views)

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