Corbic

Your comments and tone clearly indicate you are a solid left of center.

You've yet to make a single argument to change anyone's mind.

Your argument about a flat earth and moon landing are perfect...

In that the earth is fucking round and we landed on the God damn moon and no amount of bullshit will ever change that fact. Build the fucking wall. MAKE MEXICO GREAT ALREADY.

RalliartRsX

Corbic what facts?

I've asked about Obama starting a recession....you post a random article about recession recovery

I ask you to point to all the DNC/Russia collusion indictments.....your response is some random opining not related to anything DNC about the FBI is biased.

I ask you about a law which explicitly states that Mexicans are barred from being able to claim refugee status....your response is, there is not law which states this, just that you "know".

You asked about illegal immigrants as you explicitly put illegal into quotation....I point out, which actual factual artcile and proof trump himself not only married an illegal he also hired them.....
Your response is a shit ton of memes.

I also ask you if Mexico is going to pay for the wall....your response is...why hold trump to promises he made during the campaign

I have posted links from DEA, research from MIT with actual data in regards to what the wall will ultimately cost as well as pointed out Bush signed the Fence Act in 06 and Obama carried that candle and failed..


And all Corbic has posed is a shit ton of memes. How are memes factual or informative??

I digress. Corbic has his stance deeply rooted in memes. I'll keep with the MIT, DEA and other reliable and proven sources and that's that.

Have a good evening Corbic. Drink a cold one and chill

Corbic

Like, wow.

I litterally answered every single stupid excuse you asked. Several times in some cases, but your back avoiding the issues.

Go eat your Wheaties...

spooled240

Again, this is not what we're arguing here. We're arguing whether or not our borders should continue to remain wide open and our immigration laws completely ignored with zero accountability on who enters.

R3b

My last posts really have nothing to do with the discussion outside of the other dude which really boils down to the "oh no afraid of scary illegals" and posting the same two instances of an illegal committing a crime and for a hot minute was the poster for the wall because molly was written off as martyr which is sick people using someone death for political argument. Which my antendotes are just as equally as bad. But even still Gbaby made a point saying immigrates in this country commit far less crimes than any born citizen but yet that was glossed over? Then you brought up guns right after? LOL wat

Really my point and post is stopping being a twat with how you come off, stick to one subject. If you're talking about immigration and illegals stick to it. There is really no point in bringing up climate change and correlating with the extra illegals is bad for the worlds overall climate change. Its the same as people stopping straws everywhere, I mean I guess it helps the environment in the smallest sense but end of the day 100 companies provide 70ish% of the worlds pollution. End of the day individuals wont stop climate change and we need to look at companies/countries as a whole to figure out a proper way to deal with it. IM NOT SAYING fuck these companies and go on a hippy tangent on saving the planet but maybe lets talk about how we can minimize our carbon foot print as a collective. You have good points but all the other fluff is not need aka the pictures and literally typing out the arguments of the others. Just let them finish there point or whatever before trying to berate the subject and dance to another topic.

If I go back a few pages most of the comments are from you and you constantly double post which isnt needed to prove a point. Honestly I could care less if others throw in a non sequitur to the topic because overall there diction is less abrupt and to your face. If its an issue then bring it up like "hey that has nothing to do with XYZ, what im talking about is XYZ. Please lets stick to this then move on" Supports your arguments wayyyyy more and makes you seem like you're "winning" the argument if you will.

Also maybe im reading completely different thing but Gbaby isnt for open boarders, I dont think anyone is. Same way people look at gun control, no one is saying take away all the guns but maybe we need to look at this in a different light and like any modern society look for a better the solution. Just because stats show gun violence has gone down over the years, knives kill more people etc doesnt mean we should just give up about school shootings and not care or openly talk about it? But also at the same time not have an irrational fear that schools are prisions and if I send my kid to school there is a "chance" they will get shot vs getting killed in a car accident, drowning, health illnesses.

Same as the other dude and yourself, saying people should come in legally and dont hate immigrants but will rant and rave about the issues of illegal immigrants do to the country. While Gbaby and Rail are also for legal immigration but dont view illegal immigrants in this country under the lens as bad and feel they are apart of this country for the better of it.

If you want to have a deeper discussion about immigration leave the topic of the wall out of it because for arguments sake it gets built up instantly by end of the month. It still doesnt solve anything immediate or will have long terms effects aka Mexico improving its standard of living so less people come here, the illegals already here, DACA recipient which are in the middle of everything, we will still have drugs entering the country, we will still have homeless veterans, still have people living in poverty in america. To me topic of the wall is a talk about boarder security/fiances but doesnt encompass the whole talk about immigration in this country.

R3b

So what was the point of posting the articles? Right is always quick to talk about lefty emotions by you guys do the same argument. Regardless of immigration people still going to commit murder regardless of race, age, living status.

I am not for the wall simply its just a band aid for other issues, do I think we need better security then yes. I still believe we need to sort out immigration reform before anything else. At the moment only way to come into the country legally is chain migration aka through family who already has status, bring over a business with lots of capital, and last way is marriage. Even for people like my family who came legally the system failed us, we WAITED 14 years to hear about our status, constantly sending letters, going in person, lawyers etc only for them to tell us they need documents from pre 2001 which no one will have. I have cousins and other family who came over as well at the same time or years after us. All them are citizens now meanwhile we did everything right but USCIS lost our paper work and took 14 years to get back to us. Every year applying for work authorization, paying taxes, me going to school, none of us doing anything different than any other american family. We have status now but the fact we waited so long with no update is nuts. If my parents knew it was going to be this big of an issue and like many other South Africans we would of went to New Zealand or Australia. At this point America is all we've known and it be stupid to go back so SA let alone start over in another country. We dont have money like you need now to just immigrate to any country vs what was needed almost 25-30 years ago.

spooled240

lol "you guys" huh? I've actually tried to keep this discussion non-partisan and just sticking to facts. Those articles were in response to the anecdotal evidence of the benefits illegal immigrants provide. Something about 21 Savage, I don't go back and read it. I know it was anecdotal, don't take it too seriously.


and yeah I know about the process, it sucks. I know people who have went through it to become legal immigrants and eventually, citizens. I'm all for immigration reform, but that's another issue.


What I'm still not seeing are valid reasons to leave the border wide open. It's already a known fact that undocumented people(a few on terrorist watch lists) and drugs are smuggled over open parts of the border. Because it's hard to get in legally? Because we haven't seen serious spikes in crime rates or terrorist attacks from people smuggled through the SWB yet? And you guys are crazy if you think a 10+ foot wall does nothing to stop people, vehicles, etc. from crossing a border. To me, this has really nothing to do with politics, immigration, nationalism, racism..it's common sense.

e30gangsta

How is this legal?

https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...zyewiTu89Gh72M

RalliartRsX

Spool and Corbic stop making the leap. No one had said leave the border wide open.

I've asked the question 100x over. I am 1000% for border Security and had proper bipartisan support until trump jettisoned the idea and vetoed the bill. The fact that you and Corbic continue to make such false statements is ridiculous.

I laid out why the wall is a ridiculous idea, which included proper research from MIT. Not sure what else you folks need in terms of justification.

The issue I have is; the GOP sells it's supporters on a topic, the supporters take it hook line and sinker, then the GOP turnsr around and vote AGAINST what they just sold the supporters on....

In this case, BOTH the wall AND border Security. If the GOP or trump really gave a shit about either , we wouldn't have a useless wastefully government shutdown, they would have had a budget by now, and they would have figured out a way for both border security and the wall.

They have failed to accomplish what you folks voted them in to accomplish. THATS the issue I have.
Migrant crossing has continued to drop every single year since 2000. DHS own number states this (see below). The border crisis is mostly self fabricated. And shoot, the governor of New Mexico, who is ACTUALLY on the front line and not just someone at a desk pulled the troops because they are literally just sitting idle.

If you want stats, here you go.

First article pulls the immigration stats directly from DHS. The second deals with the New Mexico governor pulling troops.

I'm all for border Security, but don't continue to sell a false narrative. Give us the truth and let's work with factual information. That's all I ask

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...-prove-it/amp/

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna968336

RalliartRsX

I still don't know why Spool or Corbic aren't more pissed at the GOP for continuing to lie to their faces. They sold you guys on a topic and then turned around and jettisoned that very same idea. Where's the outrage for being dupped?? Serious question

murda-c

We should look at decriminalizing drugs to make the drug trade less profitable.

Though it would also make the drug war less profitable.

__________________

gbaby2089

nopenopenope

RalliartRsX

The elephant in the room which Corbic or spool fail to acknowledge is that the USA is Mexico's largest purchaser/customer of illegal drugs. The USA essentially funds the drug war.

But no one wants to talk about that. So when Corbic says Mexico needs to get their shit together. NO. The USA needs to get their shit together and stop funding Mexico.

As the saying goes, follow the money.

Corbic

Again, avoiding the question and the topic.

Corbic

Ever hear thr term RINO? I've only used it 50 times now.

Why aren't you pissed about Uranium One since your so hard on for Russian Colusion?

Why isn't Gabby mad about mass immigration if he cares about Global Warming?

R3b

It wasnt an argument.... it was an analogy used to talk about how much of a shitshow this thread is because everyone is running around in circles with everyone thinking theyre right. This is what I mean by you taking it so literally, no fucking shit we landed on the moon and the earth is round.

Before I said anything about what I personally think needs to be done which isnt trying to prove a point or sway an argument. Its just an opinion... Everything else i've said was to say maybe lets talk like adults instead of hitting caplocks to reiterate yourself and stop with the shitpost meme pictures.

No matter which way you lean I think the general consensus is we need to put more effort into board security and fix the broken immigration laws.

This is what I mean when I say people are talking over each other, no one is saying to keep the boarders open ever, even Gbaby had to say it again because Corbic keeps saying what Gbaby position when theyve NEVER said to be open boarder and let whoever in the country. All theyre saying illegal/immigrants have some merit in the country and shouldn't be villanized.

Again this is a non sequitur to your argument, yes im sure immigration is linked to added carbon footprint but compared to what? What I found is legal migration or even overall population increase cause the issue of carbon footprint in the US, though yes you are right if an illegal comes over here they will produce more of a carbon footprint its very negligible at best. Just as you did with the hypothetical saying the magic wand or whatever lets say we make Mexico into a better country put more money into helping the country vs helping illegals here which will see benefits. Dont you think like any other developed nation will have carbon footprint increase as well? Shit look at China, not even 80 years ago it was not even close to a developed nation and here we are thanks to capitalism its now a super power, overall the people have a better standard of living etc but they produce a good share of C02 emissions. So again what does climate change have to do with the argument for board security and having the wall to stop illegal migration?

https://cis.org/Immigration-United-S...as-Emissions-0

-The estimated CO2 emissions of the average immigrant (legal or illegal) in the United States are 18 percent less than those of the average native-born American.

-However, immigrants in the United States produce an estimated four times more CO2 in the United States as they would have in their countries of origin.

-The impact of immigration to the United States on global emissions is equal to approximately 5 percent of the increase in annual world-wide CO2 emissions since 1980.

-Of the CO2 emissions caused by immigrants, 83 percent is estimated to come from legal immigrants and 17 percent from illegal immigrants.

-Legal immigrants have a much larger impact because they have higher incomes and resulting emissions, and they are more numerous than illegal immigrants.

-In recent years, increases in U.S. CO2 emissions have been driven entirely by population increases as per capita emissions have stabilized.


ALSO I found out because of climate change we will see a huge influx of migration over the whole world and thats not because people trying to escape "shit hole" countries but because of how climate change has affected agriculture so much the last 30 years. More people will be migrating not because of politics, people, religion but because they simply dont have or can grow food.

Here is your old comment
This is an oversimplification of why third world countries have many kids. Its a mix of more kids=better chance of care later in life, overall bad medical infrastructure, less educated, need a high birth rate to combat high mortality rate. Also "force" these people, lets just ignore human rights(mass sterilization wtf), go full 1984; live in a authoritarian climate instead of you know trying bring up other countries to a global standard of living, letting biology take over and people will naturally have less kids.

spooled240

Parts of the border are wide open without a barrier or security. This whole time you guys were saying that people and drugs don't enter through open, unprotected parts of the border so a wall is unnecessary and ineffective. Only points of entry are a concern, not parts of the border that are wide open?

Whatever, maybe we're making some progress here.

So if you guys are against wide open borders, are you acknowledging that there's a problem with parts of our border being wide open? This is why many Americans feel something should be done about this. Build a wall, hire more BP agents to patrol, etc.

Ralli, you're all over the place with your arguments and Gbaby is delusional in believing walls are made out mass from the 4th dimension that dematerializes when physical objects try to pass through them.

Cool deltas, bro. "Only" 300k apprehensions.

and if we want to get bi-partisan about it, the democrats have acknowledged this issue and supported enforcing border security and immigration laws in the past, which of course is extremely controversial to their standing on the issue today. Clinton and Obama both openly supported this, but now the democrats are fighting against this because they hate Trump so bad. Most of them looked ridiculous the other night during Trumps State of the Union speech. Let's not stand and clap when Trump denounces sex trafficking because Trump said it. I personally hate this bi-partisan shit-slinging contest because it's tearing us apart, but it just so happens that the left seems to become less and less rational by the day.

Did you guys see AOC's Green New Deal? What in the serious fuck...

gbaby2089

nopenopenope

FaLKoN240

I just want to point out that 0 percent of the participants in this thread have changed their thoughts, beliefs or political affiliation since it started.

This thread is so pointless. 41 pages of people arguing about nothing and no one's opinion changing.

__________________

Best way to do business with me? Make your best offer FIRST.

Corbic

I'd argue the opposite.

Part of the reason we have over population, in Africa for example, is because of Foriegn Aid and medical treatment.

We keep shipping rice, vaccines and even UN Peacekeepers preventing nature down taking its course. 200 years ago you'd have just seen a 9/10 mortality rate from war, famine and diesease. The over population in its self has now created its own human tradgity as it leads too... War, famine and disease.

So now Doctors without Boarders solution is just to shop everyone to Europe?


Its called Socilaism... And if you truly belive the ends justifies the means... Then they will do it.

BTW this has been done before by almost every Socialist country.

Corbic

And the left would love to see my people in camps or drag me out in the woods and put a bullet in my head.....


It's all happened before, it will happen again.

RalliartRsX

You are 100% right and I have come to this conclusion.

Thanks

Have a good weekend guys!

spooled240

+1 Have a good weekend everyone

R3b

GG, yeah im over it. If my last post all I got out of corbic having a tangent about socialism vs everything else I said Im done trying lol

gbaby2089

nopenopenope

Corbic

Nice strawman argument.

Do you want socialism and progressivism?

The fundamental problem problem is the end goal and that's why none of us can agree.

If the argument was "what's the best way to control illegal immigration" then we can debate the most cost effective means to meet that goal. Do we focus on visa overstays, add more boarder guards, drones, walls, improve the efficiency of the deportation process, etc.

But when one side does not want to restrict illegal immigration, well we are at a fundamental impass aren't we.

It's one thing to argue how to best prepaid a future generation. "Hwy boys and girls need to be exposed to more then just firefighters and teachers as career choices", all sorts of modern technology driven skills are needed that k-12 completely fail to show kids.

Do higshchoolers or Liberal Arts kids have any idea what Supply Chain Artifical Intelligence is or how Block Chain impacts logistics?

If they did, they'd be making 6-figures day one graduation.

But arguing kids need to be raised gender neutral or should have a guaranteed income regardless if they choose to work...... Well there is no compromise there since that is a polar opposite goal.

People cry about how polar politics have become, but it's become that way because the goals are no longer the same.

And the leftist all around the world killed hundreds of millions of people in the 20th Century , and it's always been for the good of society, progress and equality. You just can't have those stinking right wing conservative rural folk getting in the fucking way.

Corbic

Do you mean... Just most? 50%? Some? A few?

Or just black listed, censored, impeached and imprisoned?

Corbic

Corbic

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna970536

Well derpdidudaday

spooled240

https://twitter.com/DanCrenshawTX/st...78431317000193


lol