exitspeed

How many of us are professional game designers? Sure we could all come up with some good ideas, some good ones have been mentioned, but we don't do this for a living. Imagine what the developers are coming up with.

I mean, if anyone here doesn't think that Miyamoto doesn't have some ideas that are going to blow you away I honestly think you are being a little short sighted and not giving the guy the credit he deserves.

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ZilviaKid

i have to agree and disagree with you on the pace aspect.

it MIGHT work in dead space and the like, where there are long luls of no action, however in a game with a faster pace or multiplayer, theres no chance youd be looking down at the controller for even a second.

its too much of a gimmick imo

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exitspeed

It just dawned on me. Since I started this thread it reminded me of something but I couldn't put my finger on it and it just hit me...All of this same stuff that has been said in this thread was said about the DS.

Not sure how many people paid attention to the reveal of that vs the PSP. Everyone hated on the idea..."2 screens rubbish", "pointless", "it's just a gimmick!".

Everyone screamed at the top of their keyboards that it was going to fail, and Nintendo was making a huge mistake and Sony was going to wipe the floor with them...




Well, we all know how that turned out. The DS proved to be far more then a gimmick and ultimately a whole lot of fun. Innovative is the best way to describe it.

Now here we are, with another Nintendo product that the world doesn't even know about and all the same things are being said.

Again, I'll put my faith in Nintendo. They've earned it.

And before people start saying, "well look at the Virtual Boy, the Game Cube!"...the few failures in Nintendo's catalog hardly outweigh their successes.

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amdnivram

Well i just see the Wii, as being based on gimicks. The only reason to have a wii is because of the gimicks that come with it like the controller and the traditional games that i do enjoy. Maybe im not seeing it, but if Nintendo is trying to to gain a larger demographic i cant see this being it. With the Wii, they already have everyday people and children, but i dont see any hardcore gamers picking this over any any new possible console's that microsoft of playstation can come up with. From my perspective i just dont see a reason to bring this out now since the Wii is still doing great. Since i own all 3 consoles, i would never buy any of the motions add on for the ps3 or xbox 360 because i only see it working with games the Wii has. This is assuming Nintendo is even trying to reach this demographic, if not then another console for the casual and child gamers.

As for working in fast paced games i have to disagree completely, an example is cod in order to reload or switch weapons/secondaries would be hard without having to look at the screen. Unlike buttons on the current controllers where you know their location by feel, a touch screen requires sight to see the buttons since they are activated by touch. All of this ranting is just in terms of any competitive gaming. Im sure this system will still be great in its own respect with fun interactive games just like the Wii, but i dont see it competing for the same demographic as any of the other consoles. Even so im still excited to see what crazy and repetitive things they can come up with lol, still enjoy wii boxing.

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NissanEnthus

^^^2nd this....No matter what gimmick of new controller (which by the way was how Nintendo raped everyone in buyin remotes and accesories with Wii) no serious gamer older than 12 is going to buy into this.... THE GAMES.....make or break the system....To hardcore gamers this was a bust... Wii sold on the control gimmick and the fact that they priced it right so average household could afford it....NOTHING ELSE....1 Zelda, and a couple Metroids and Marios in how many years? The ratio of Barbie/Hannah Montana/garbage games vs. good games....Is pathetic. Nintendo needs to appeal to all gamers and create new franchises and be open to already sucessful ones that MS and Sony have to compete..

theicecreamdan

for fast paced games, it doesn't need to have "buttons" on the touch screen. Tap to reload, swipe to the left to change weapon.

I'm inclined to have faith in Nintendo, because it has been a long time since I've been disappointed by them.

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amdnivram

hmm i dont see this working without allocated sections for each because its not as simple as swipe and click. Guns( secondary/primary) along with grenade(secondary and primary) alone would need a separate way top change them, equipment.Im sure it would need to unless they just want a screen without a ui and if thats the case it might as well just be the Wii where you just have a simple motion. Again they can simplify it but that would be like having the screen there for show and not actually using it. I could see disarming bombs being kinda fun, but no one plays fps for puzzles.

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Omarius Maximus

Game development is engineer driven. Everyone and their mom has ideas, but very few people have the technical merit to actually make those ideas become reality. Either way, having a screen on the controller does open up new avenues. Although I fear said avenues may end up being far too situational for the average game.

exitspeed

That's why I like Nintendo games. There isn't a new Zelda, Metroir, or Mario every single year. I'm so sick and tired of developers releasing the same game year in and year out with a different plot, slightly shinier graphics, and some new features.

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amdnivram

although this is true, Nintendo has their own way or letting out a similar product year after year with barely new features, ex. the ds, ds lite, dsi, dsi xl, 3ds.

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Daniel.

You see it as a gimmick, I see it as a revolutionary innovative product which MS and Sony struggled to duplicate quickly.

You may have missed my first post on the first page, but I'll say it again. Nintendo products have been revolutionary and not evolutionary. If this new console does not have compelling new core features like the Wii, then it will bomb. I know Nintendo will pull it off. This new controller won't be just another gimmick.

Releasing a console like the Wii that appeals to a broader demographic is obviously going to also increase the variety of games including some like Hannah Montana etc etc. It's not pathetic. Console manufacturers have been trying to get more people of all ages to purchase their hardware for ages, and not just "hardcore gamers".
You need to place the blame on third party game developers who produce those "crappy" games and not Nintendo.

It's just like how everyone on here is crying for an S16 Silvia. Why the hell would Nissan spend money designing a car that only appeals to 16 year old boys who think Dorifto is mega cool?

There's a difference between understanding your target demographic vs only selling to a specific demographic.



Some engineers can be great game designers too.

But no, game design in general is NOT engineer driven. I have friends who went to school to study game design and are working in the industry. They are the ones driving the creative process. The engineers simply figure out how to bring those ideas to life.

In some cases though games CAN be engineer driven. One of my co-workers just quit his job here 2 weeks ago on Android as a Developer Advocate to form his own startup focusing on mobile gaming. He has an engineering background, but also has extremely creative ideas. Working for a four person startup, it's a necessity that the roles of engineer/game designer be combined in order to be successful.

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BOROSUN

better graphics ...are gameplay enhancements. atleast they are pushing the hardware and progressing forward.

the more games they come out the better the quality gets especially for fps. i cant stand a game with bugs or unbalance issues and ppl exploiting it, then having to wait for a patch which most of the time only fixes some issues. another example is ps3 cell processor its a new tech so, programming was more difficult and lots of figuring out. but, the more they put out games the better the game gets optimizing and effiency. this why some dumbass say graphics looks better on 360 than ps3. maybe it is becuase it was a badly ported game.

every year is a exaggeration but , you do get tired of seeing it because they are multiplatform games.

NissanEnthus

“Nintendo products have been revolutionary and not evolutionary. If this new console does not have compelling new core features like the Wii, then it will bomb. I know Nintendo will pull it off. This new controller won't be just another gimmick.”

Compelling core features like the Wii WTF??? Motion controls ok….What other COMPELLING thing does it have or do? It does not even have a freakin DVD player!! You Nintendo fanboys must be simple minded and easily amused. A touchscreen on a remote with buttons….lets think about this?? Buttons and a Touchscreen? Why not just press a damn button (that would be more prescise!) why would I have look down and press something on a screen…..If it can stream games to it…they just suckered you into buying a damn DS….with one screen lol…..Which By the way going back to thumb sticks is not Revolutionary or Evolutionary for that matter….I don’t doubt Nintendo has some tricks up their sleave but to me a controller does not sell me…...at the end of the day it’s a CONTROLLER!

“Releasing a console like the Wii that appeals to a broader demographic is obviously going to also increase the variety of games including some like Hannah Montana etc etc. It's not pathetic. Console manufacturers have been trying to get more people of all ages to purchase their hardware for ages, and not just "hardcore gamers".
You need to place the blame on third party game developers who produce those "crappy" games and not Nintendo.”

This is a big ass contradiction….They appeal to a broad demo, but not hardcore gamers??....ok great point….But to the point and straight out Wii is geared at kids plain and simple.….not older teens or adults. (which I begin to question why guys are creamin over this like little girls at a Justin Beiber concert) You obviously don’t know how the industry works if you want to BLAME the 3Rd party developers….Who DO YOU THINK CONTROLS and decides what developers make games for their system…Nintendo has to approve of all these games its been known for years before they put their seal on it….as do the other guys.

zombiewolf513

Controller is the console?

Daniel.

The potential of a touchscreen integrated controller has been discussed. I'll just assume that you're too close minded to understand the concept and what it would allow game developers to do even though Axiomatik very concisely presented a few very viable use cases.

A controller may not sell you, but you're just 1 person and you're not a forward thinking third party game developer.

In any case, all of this is pure speculation at best. No one knows what features the new console is going to launch with at this point. It may very well be crap.
Besides, what's wrong with creating a console which appeals to a younger generation? Did it not sell well? Did Nintendo not earn a profit? Did the product have less friction for casual gamers to adopt it?

I work on a platform and on a team geared SPECIFICALLY to support third party development of apps including games on a mobile platform, Android. So believe me when I say let me speak from first hand experience working with developers.
Let me tell you, Nintendo does NOT want to alienate devs and create a closed ecosystem. Without successful third party game development, their new console will tank. Just because Nintendo has to sign off on games, doesn't mean they want to be an obstacle. Don't confuse a "sign off" with a "road block".

Full disclosure, I have a Wii and have not played it in 2 years. I play my PS3 a shit ton more.

I'm by no means a Nintendo fanboy. I'm a realist, and I see all the things that Nintendo did right with the Wii. Let me put it in terms you can understand. From a business perspective, "Nintendo is killing it".

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exitspeed

Those have just been upgrades to the same system with the exception of the 3DS which is a new system. That is normal. Just as MS released a newer smaller 360 and Sony did the same with the PS3. Difference is handhelds are easier for them to upgrade. Minor upgrades are industry norm and are to be expected.

You and I would be frans if we weren't on other sides of the country. I would wait by the bust stop for you in your convertible to come pick me up. Hard part would just be deciding which seat to take.

But no, seriously, I'm glad there are people in this thread that can see past the obvious.

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axiomatik

Motion controls are a revolutionary, compelling feature that blew open the video market to a whole new swath of the population. My 60-year old in-laws have a Wii. My sister-in-law has a Wii. My wife plays the Wii. None of these people would ever be interested in a PS3 or Xbox. Despite what you may believe, staring at the TV and furiously mashing some tiny buttons doesn't appeal to the vast majority of the population. Polygon count bragging rights don't matter to the vast majority of the population. First-person shooters don't appeal to the vast majority of the population. You know what does appeal to the vast majority of people? Fun, engaging games in whatever genre that person happens to enjoy.

Second, what would a DVD player add to the Wii? How many households have a Wii, but no DVD player (standalone unit, or in a computer, or a portable unit)? You can go to Walmart and buy one for $30. If Nintendo added DVD playback to the Wii, they would have had to add $20 in licensing fees to the DVD licensing authority, and for no good reason. And, with the Netflix Channel, I can stream movies through my Wii wirelessly without the need of any kind of physical media.

What compelling, revolutionary features did the PS3 or Xbox 360 bring to the table when they were introduced? Higher polygon counts? "ooohhh, look, those bushes and grass look so much more realistic now". Yes, the PS3 has a blu-ray player. If you really "needed" a blu-ray player, it was a good deal when it came out. But now, BD players are cheap, so that isn't really a compelling feature for the PS3 anymore. The most compelling feature that the Xbox ever introduced was xbox live, but that was an innovation of the original xbox, not the 360.

I don't understand your hatred. I don't think anyone is twisting your arm and making you buy one. If it doesn't appeal to you, don't buy it. Easy as pie. But don't sit hear and rant and rave about how Nintendo isn't catering to your every need. You represent one demographic, a single slice of consumers out of the entire population that plays electronic games. Not all consoles should be catered exclusively to your demographic.

I'm not hating on the PS3 or xbox. Both are great consoles, they have great games. I played the hell out of my PS1 and PS2, but after a while I got tired of the racing sims and FPS and Street-Fighter style fighting games that are the mainstays of the PS and Xbox. The game-play got stale for me. I mean, really, how have FPS changed since Quake? (I picked Quake, because it was the first one where multiplayer really took off) Different character designs, different weapons, different environments, but fundamentally you are still playing the same game. (I guess vehicles have been added, that's one difference). I am a 30 year old male, who has been playing video games since I got my Atari 2600 back in the 80s. When the new nintendo system comes out, I'm not going to run out and buy it. I'm not the type of person who feels compelled to be the first person to buy something new. If, after a while, it looks interesting, I might buy it. But if it isn't compelling enough, I'll stick to my wii (I still have several games that I own that I haven't even had a chance to play yet). To me, graphics are secondary, compelling gameplay is number one. With the limited amount of time I have to play video games, I'd rather pick up a wii controller than a PS3 or xbox controller.

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NissanEnthus

I dont deny Nintendo has the sales numbers and killing it, thats not my argument....And everyone can come back with numbers all they want. But again thats due to the market they have and the price point. Kids have WAY more time to play and at 200 bucks its way cheaper than the alternative. So I give them Credit on their genious marketing and buisness desicion of their console. But my opinion as real gamer I think we got shafted....I cant remember what was the last Wii game that made me go put a deposit down for if I ever did? Maybe Zelda....Im also being a realist by saying any console aint shit without the games to back it up!....even with MS and Sony they can make uber powerful machines and add all these tech bells and whistles...But that dont make me want to shell out 400-600 out the door if the games arent amazing or up to par, even today they are still trying to push the limits of the PS3. The Wii was released in 2006 thats 5 years ago and the only monster sales games was a handful of franchise games...The others MS and Sony have countless games that stay at the top of the charts for weeks dominating.....

Future240

^^^^^Again with the "real gamer" stuff. What is a real gamer? I own a 360 and a wii and nearly bought a ps3 yet I don't feel nintendo shafted us. I enjoy the Wii titles I bought along with my 360 collection. Does that not

So because you haven't went to the store and put money down on a wii game in a while it's a bust?
I'm sure lots of other "real gamers" would disagree.




axiomatik's post deserves a beer.

Plus with the added concept of being able to steam games to the controller imagine the possibilities. Think of how all the Pokemon games that would kill in that kind of setup. Imagine to be able to do minigames or side quests with the controller that enable extra stats or exclusive unlockables.

Think about being able to screen netflix from the console to the controller. There are tons of possibilities for this controller most we haven't thought of as we are still thinking in current time.

I think the comment about the DS hit the nail on the head. Nintendo is always doing whatever the hell it wants despite trends and reaps in profit because of.

To condemn something that seems stupid before it is proven or seen is, as many have pointed out, closed minded.

Sidenote: I wonder how the competition will react.

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NissanEnthus

A real gamer is someone who looks for depth in a game....not just mindless little motion mini games.... which is THE MAJORITY of wii games. You can only get away with that for so long...I played Wii sports for a long time because it was the only game worth any interest and after beating 1 Zelda and a couple Marios. I think you just skim through and and only pick out what you want to read and gets to you.....Again....I DONT DOUBT NINTENDO HAS SOME GOOD IDEAS UP THEIR SLEAVE and will employ them in this new console which is yet to be seen...they made videogames what they are today....but as far as game content they suck no matter how many screens they add to a remote or beef up their system. If they dont utilize it right (AND OFTEN since its going to be their selling point IF AT ALL THIS IS EVEN REAL) they have played with this before and it didnt work cause no one jumped on the idea....Like I said it sold me back then on the Gamecube and the Gameboy advanced hooked up with Zelda Windwaker, but it was a bit annoying and no other game used the tech. ...Bottom line Crap games vs Great games on the Wii are 100 to 1....So you guys defending and swear by Wii tell me what sold it?? The GIMMICK of motion gameplay or games?? Sony and Microsoft totally bit the idea which I think was stupid and I HAVE YET to see any great game for their expensive add ons!! Spending 150 for a Kinect when the games are crap is ludacris....Or expensive ass Sony wand that requires you to buy a camera and additional remotes....Gimmicks to cash in which their sales figures show is not working.

BOROSUN

since doom, it has change a lot.
i'd like to see a large dynamic sandbox fps with rpg elements!



anyways, when they say its going to be the most powerful system. does that mean they are going to use the powerpc970 ? or maybe the z196 motherf'ing 96 core with 50 billion instruction per sec @ 5.2ghz... they did say poweful!

Daniel.

Yeah, I'd pretty much throw in the towel if I were you.

Your argument is just one side of the coin. Take another look at Axiomatik's last post and maybe you'll see the point we're all trying to make here.

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WanganRunner

I can justify a new Nintendo console purchase every five years *just* for a new Mario game and a new Zelda game (not spin-offs, etc).

Anything else is a bonus.

I'm amped about Pikmin 3 though, I really liked the first two.

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FRpilot

wasn't pikman 2 only released in japan and europe?

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NissanEnthus

LOL....what am I supposed to get out of that last post?? I'm supposed to be happy his girlfriend, mom, and grandma played the Wii!!...lame...

I dont question the Motion controls as compelling....But It was a gimick which obviously they are now turning their back on with this new remote...haha

.....some of your guys emotional attachment to a Wii (or Nintendo) is surprising for grown guys. I like Video games and all but not for anyone to contradict your happy thoughts with Wii and think its hate....I dont know what to tell you...

I dont know how many times I have to say the games BLOW on the Wii...But If you guys are happy Playing Barbie,Hannah Montana and Pokemon....To all their own right....

What he says about FPS not changing fundamentally is true but can also be said for all Nintendo franchises...seriously....Mario in Space new setting....same concept...YUP...Modern Wafare (Even though Black Ops blows and is buggy as hell) is the highest grossing MEDIA franchise EVER bigger than any movie ever created....but thats only a small population of players.

Polygons?? I dont remember when was the last time anyone used the word polgon since PS2 or PS1 I think....If your mocking that the PS3 has more graphical power...Then you might as well hate modern movies with CGI or computers...Cause their only gonna get better...I can do a hell of alot more on a PS3 console than a Wii and look way better....but again they wanted to keep it simple for the kiddies....

axiomatik

You really consider Wii Sports to be the standard bearer for all wii games? A little $20 release title whose sole purpose was to demonstrate what the new controller could do?

The problem you have, is that the games you *really* like, are optimized for the PS3 or xbox. So you play them on those platforms. You dabble with games on the wii, but it's not your core preference. Hence, you think that the games have no depth or replayability. But the truth is that you aren't interested in really pursuing the depth or replayability of the wii games. You aren't the core audience for the wii. But just because someone else likes other types of games, doesn't mean that they aren't a "real gamer", or that they don't find real depth and replayability on wii games.

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Flipzide

The new console sounds neat.

I'm still waiting for the day when Nintendo releases a full Pokemon game on a console similar to that of the rpg games on their handhelds instead of "stadium" type games. I'd honestly die happy if there was also a legitimate Nintendo released Pokemon MMORPG someday as well

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Daniel.

I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. At this point I'm just going to call you thick headed and reading comprehension challenged.

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WanganRunner

Nope, it had a US release:

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NissanEnthus

where in my post did I ever state Wii Sports IS THE STANDARD for all wii games? And you are actually are re-iterating my point...in your non sense way of trying to twist things....Wii appeals and milks the 5-12 year old segment and that is not MY CORE PREFERENCE....YOU HIT IT RIGHT ON THE NAIL so i hope you get my point now..... If you are trying to prove that the Wii is what the average15+ to adult guy wants to play....ummm that is your preference.....I apologize if you let some stranger hurt your feelings by saying his own opinion and call himself a real gamer and you not because you adore your wii and nintendo..... Just for 1 minute I will call the Wii GREATEST SYSTEM OF ALL TIME ITS THE MANS MAN OF SYSTEMS.....ITS GAMES DEFINED A GENERATION of little kids.....Bring on project cafe.....Im creaming my pants for one