Altima Coupe = Possible 240 successor! - Page 2 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

OptionZero · 10-23-2006, 11:47 PM

Hrm...japan only? I don't know if that would work.

Working against that are...

cost: if you limit yourself to one country (or area, since China, Korea, etc probably get japanese exclusive cars easily enough) worth of sales, you're limiting your profits from that car. Can Nissan afford to make a car that could only be sold in one area? Remember Nissan doesn't have the deep pockets that Nissan or Toyota do, nor the independence, which leads me to

Renault: free of any parent company, I could easily see Nissan spitting out sports cars that we don't get here. Yet with the bottom line in mind, and global market share important, does Renault let Nissan play with a cheap, rwd sports car for Japan only? I dunno how the interaction between Nissan and Reanult works, so I can't say.

on the other hand...
Japan: It *is* the home market, and not a small one.

FM/VQ platform: thanks to the use of the VQ in so many cars (Quest, Infiniti's, pathfinder, altima, maxima, Z, etc) and platform sharing among many of those cars, it might not be too much work ...all they'd have to do perhaps is shrink it down, strip out some luxury shit, and depower it, right? they wouldn't even need to worry about LHD versions

just throwing shit out there *shrug*

anyone here familiar with the automotive industry? over on FreshAlloy there's rumblings about unmet sales expectations by Nissan USA...if so, kiss any fun cars good bye

*Yuri* · 10-24-2006, 10:35 AM

Okay, since OptionZero brought up some good points as to why Nissan shouldn't make the Altima coupe FR, (or any other FR in that price range for that matter, here's my arguement for it, coming from things I've learned when I got my car design degree, plus knowing others in the industry.
I personally believe it will be FF, due to the name, but here's the arguement to make an FR, even if it's a different model.

1) Placement in Nissan.
As much as everyone thinks the 350Z is a succesor to the 240SX in our community, they are greatly different cars. They really don't have much in common outside of the fact they are both FR, and built by Nissan.
They were both marketed as sports cars upon introduction, but the 240SX was much friendlier in terms of daily use, with a much more usable trunk, and a kid sized back seat making it an alternative for new families, something that the 350Z doesn't have. The G35 is in a higher price range, and the fact it's an Infiniti puts it out of the price range for a large portion of buyers who are looking to spend under $30k. Since Nissan is adding SE-R varients to more models, this seems to say that they consider the SE-R as a trim package rather than a seperate model. Thus the Sentra SE-R is considered more of a
high-end Sentra than a stand alone performance model.
So in terms of cars under $30k, which is what Nissan specializes in, you have
(1) high-teens to low 20's 4-door 5-pass (Sentra)
(1) low-20's to mid-20's 4-door 5-pass (Altima)
(1) mid-20's to 30k 4-door 5-pass (Maxima)
(1) high-20's to mid-30's 2-door 2-pass (Z)

Obviously Nissan see that there is room for another coupe in their line-up, priced below the Z, hence the Altima Coupe in whatever drivetrain it will take.
I know, this isn't an arguement to make it FR, since most of the market won't care, but bear with me.

2)Placement in the market.
This is the part that matters most.
Everyone knows that there is a distinct lack of FR cars on the market, and the closest thing to a modern day 240 is, get this, a Ford Mustang.
However, we are experiancing a rear-wheel drive revival in the market.
Chrysler is having great success with the LS platform, (300C,Charger,Magnum, upcoming Challenger).
GM is releasing more midrange RWD platforms. Already they have the Solstice, Sky, CTS, GTO, and they are building more RWD platforms, (camaro, etc.).
Pontiac is going to a Full RWD model range, and GM's next family sedans will be RWD.
While you may feel this doesn't apply to you, it makes a big difference in the fact that it will expose a large segment of the market to RWD again, and make it acceptable, and with modern driving aids that are now put in most cars regardless of market segment, maybe even make RWD preferred by many buyers.
By making RWD acceptable, it paves the way for a new generation of RWD cars.

While there are no lightweight affordable coupes in the market currently, a few years ago there weren't any awd turbo sedans either. By bringing over the WRX, Subaru paved the way for the STi, Evo, and Mazdaspeed 6. These are a smaller niche then the venerable FR coupe, yet the Evo and Subarus have sold well, to the extent that there are more WRX's sold than 2.5RS's.

So who will pave the way for an affordable FR coupe?
Mazda with it's Kabura. (I can't say anything more in detail.)

3) The value of the 240SX to Nissan.
Nissan isn't stupid. It has realized the success the 240SX has become long after the last one was sold.
According to SEMA, the 240SX is the most commonly modified car in the tuner market, with a loyal owner base that spends more on performance parts than Honda owners ever did in the past.
Nissan has classified the 240SX as one of the "cult cars" in their history, the others being the Z and the GTR.
Also, many 240 owners are getting good paying jobs, starting careers, etc, and present one of the largest model specific "niche" markets in the history of the company, since there are many more 240's than the Z's that have made up Nissan's US model specific niche in the past.

It's because of this strong potential customer base with a lack of a suitable product that Mazda will bring out the Kabura (and brought out the Miata retractable hardtop as a stopgap 2-seater), and GM plans on releasing a Zeta-platformed coupe. Toyota has also shown interest in a spiritual successor to the Corolla GTS in a small 4-seat rwd coupe, especially since Toyota has zero perfermance offerings currently.

With so many other companies gearing up to tackle this market, it only makes sense for Nissan, with it's current leadership in FR platforms, and many suitable engines and other components to bring out something of their own. I have a feeling it will be an SX, and not the Altima coupe.
In fact, the Altima coupe may be the biggest arguement against an FR when the time comes.

'90RPS13 · 10-24-2006, 10:53 AM

Ok, so that seems like a writeup for Car and Driver. Very nice. I cant wait for a new FR Platform to come from Nissan. *a

*exitspeed* · 10-24-2006, 10:57 AM

^
Yuri...you are my idol. i've discussed almost every point you have brought with some of my friends. I agree with you entirely. Thanks for putting the thoughts into text.

OptionZero · 10-24-2006, 11:22 AM

Toyota, a small RWD coupe? I'll believe it when I see it. They'll pump out a dozen more hybrid shitboxes before they make any sports car worth talking about.

Nissan is a follower, not an innovator. While your speculation about other companies does may be true, it is not a case that *this* car will be RWD- it would only be argument for the *next* Altima or whatver might be RWD.

Even though the EVO was a no-brainer move, remember that the EVO didn't come around until the Impreza had been around for a few years.

Best case scenario is that the Kabura comes out in '08 or '09 equipped with the Miata engine, sells very well, then Nissan pumps out a rwd coupe in '10, then Kabura comes back with a RENESIS variant that beats it.

We don't get this RWD coupe anytime soon, assuming it ever comes out.

*Yuri* · 10-24-2006, 11:40 AM

Interesting responses, OptionZero,
here are my responses

Toyota, a small RWD coupe? I'll believe it when I see it. They'll pump out a dozen more hybrid shitboxes before they make any sports car worth talking about.
My senior thesis and project was an affordable rwd coupe for Toyota. The project was sponsored by Toyota, and we worked closely with Toyota design Japan and Calty. I'm only talking about what I learned from the Toyota guys, including the head of Toyota Design.

Nissan is a follower, not an innovator. While your speculation about other companies does may be true, it is not a case that *this* car will be RWD- it would only be argument for the *next* Altima or whatver might be RWD.
As I said twice in my writeup, I do not believe the Altima coupe will be RWD.

Even though the EVO was a no-brainer move, remember that the EVO didn't come around until the Impreza had been around for a few years.
As I also said, the Evo was brought out as a response to the WRX. Nissan could bring out a car to compete against the Kabura in the same way. Some companies are too afraid to test markets, but will be quick to bring out a product if another manufacturers vehicle establishes the market.

Best case scenario is that the Kabura comes out in '08 or '09 equipped with the Miata engine, sells very well, then Nissan pumps out a rwd coupe in '10, then Kabura comes back with a RENESIS variant that beats it.
I can't say anything about that, but I know.

*exitspeed* · 10-24-2006, 12:19 PM

The Kabura is a very beautiful car. I really hope it does see the light of day and sparks a fire under Nissan's ass to build a competitor. It would be so great to see this segment explode in the near future.

OptionZero · 10-24-2006, 12:30 PM

Well, I defer to your experience with Toyota. Perhaps they are thinking about it - that could well be the case. On the other hand, a large company like Toyota has the ability to explore possibilities however remote they may be (like this neo-AE86) without really committing the least to doing it. It's one of the benefits of being so profitable; you can play around with ideas less than seriously. It also helps them stay on top: they don't intend to bring up a new RWD coupe, but if a market for one arises unexpectedly, they already have the foundations for one laid out.

Question: does Toyota have an existing platform that can be used? Offhand, the IS-chassis seems too big to be made into a cheapo, RWD coupe, and do they even have a small 4cyl or v6 to stick in there? 3S-GTE is long gone, i assume.

-Mazda? Whats that last pic, i really don't get it? Were you privy to some internal discussions? I LIKE the Kabura quite a lot, and I trust Mazda to make a car that can fuckin handle! (rx7, miata, Mazdaspeed protege) They seem to thrive on fundamentally sound cars without relying on AWD or electronic trickery like so many companies are doing nowadays (BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, even Mitsu and Subie).

If I were given the choice on these theoretical coupes from Nissan/Mazda/Toyota, I'd take the Kabura because it looks badass...assuming they straighten out any reliability problems.

Clarification:
I'm arguing against the probability of a RWD coupe because thats what I think is reality; that does not mean I don't WANT a RWD coupe.
Since I'll graduate in '09 and probably get a fulltime job in '10, the timeline means i'll start getting real paychecks just in time for these babies, so my *heart* wants these...just my *mind* doesn't believe it.

if the industry standard were for every maker to have a cheap, light, LSD-equipped, RWD entry level sports car, wouldn't that make everyone's day?

drift freaq · 10-24-2006, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptionZero

Nissan is a follower, not an innovator. While your speculation about other companies does may be true, it is not a case that *this* car will be RWD- it would only be argument for the *next* Altima or whatver might be RWD.

Option as much as I think your knowledgable the above statement is so unlearned and out to lunch its not funny.
Nissan not an innovator? Hmm you need to study their history before you go making such a bold uniformed statement. Lets go back.
Ok you will first probably try to cite the Toyota 2000 . Thing about that is the Original design team Yamaha/Nissan and its whole purchased subsidary Prince motors. When the falling out came with Yamaha , Yamaha took the design concept to Toyota and you had the 2000 in very limited numbers. Nissan took the design refined it put their own engine in it and walla Fairlady 240z.
Though lets take a step earlier the first reliable Japanese sports car was the Nissan Fairlady 310/311 yes a Prince design but a Nissan product . The Silvia was actually based on that platform. Innovation not following.
Then we have the the infamous Bluebird/ PL510 maybe a follower of the BMW 1600 but for all pratical purposes a innovation in the fact that the chassis was a stiffer chassis than the beemer and the price point it came in at was unheard of for a rwd IRS sedan in 1968( 2k price). Same for the Fairlady 240z the price point of 4k in 1970 for a sports car of its caliber and entry level at the same time was unheard of. Anything its equal would have cost 10k from Europe.
Now to not call the Skyline in its numerous reiterations down through the years not innovation is just blind. ATTESA was inovation as was the whole L series engines and the RB series engines. In fact Nissan has won rewards for its innovation in V6 engine technologies. To call Nissan a follower not an innovator just shows your lack of consideration of their storied history. Yes there was a time when Nissan drew back and did not take chances as all cars companies have down from time to time due to mismanagement or economics. Though to call them Uninnovative is ignorant at best.Sorry but it had to be said.
Now to get back to the actual topic. Few of you realize the article came up in a entertainment type situation i.e. someone that covers Hollywood reports it. It is highly suspect in its accuracy because of that.
I have stated in previous posts and I know this to be a fact. Nissan does have plans on building a new Silvia. I have quite a bit of info to back this up from Japanese sources. It was also possibly slated for release stateside and yes the 250sx moniker was tossed around. Whether we actually see it depends solely on Nissan North America making the decision it fits into the lineup. whether it is FR or FF remains to be seen. Preliminary info I had said FF but them preliminary info on the G35 from Japan before it came out also said FF.
In the end I can honestly say yes Nissan is innovative and they do take chances. Yes the Silvia will come back in Japan for sure. Will the SX come back here? We will see.
Also to counter those people talking about an affordable FR coupe cutting into sales of the 350z , at this time Nissan has firmly established sales of that car. In Japan and here its a hit. Moreso in Japan than even here. a Silvia or a 250sx is not going to affect sales of the car one iota because it will be just different enough design wise as to not cross the lines.
This is not 1990 when Nissan was trying to market a bloated upscaled Sports GT car i.e. 300zx as a Sports Car for 30-40k sticker (same price as the cost of a 350z today) While also marketing a true entry level sports car i.e. 180sx/240sx fastback.
The 350z is a Sports car not a Sports GT. It outhandles a 300zx, is lighter and smaller and it has the same amount of power(300hp) as the TT for 1/3 less than the cost of a TT in 1990. Thats Innovation folks.
There is easily room in the marketplace to bring out a 175-200hp entry level sports coupe that would not threaten the Z in any way shape or form.

*exitspeed* · 10-24-2006, 12:44 PM

There is also rumors of GM building a small Corvette based off the Kappa platform. Obviously with the success of the Sky and Solstice GM wants to whore out that platform with as many cars as possible, which alos makes it more cost effective at the same time. With this said, if GM can build a successful Miata fighter on their first attempt (refering to the sales numbers), then anything in this industry is possible.

HyperTek · 10-24-2006, 01:17 PM

i wont be surprised if its Nissans answer to the Eclipse.. hell if u didnt know about the eclipse, it looked like it coulda been a rwd

OptionZero · 10-24-2006, 01:19 PM

You're arguing in the broad historical context of Nissan's innovation, and I think, maybe even a little defensive about anyone that has any hint of Anti-nissan sentiment. Please consider that I am talking in the context of this purportedly RWD "altima coupe", and the recent history of Nissan's offerings. What car have they put released recently that was truly innovative?

I would not consider the 350Z innovative at all, it's just a modern interpretation of the 300ZX. The 350Z is better than the 300ZX, but that does not make it creative in any sense. Moreover, it's destroyed by other sports cars in the same bracket (STi and EVO), and can't quite match any of the offerings above it (M3 and Corvette). It's sort of a softer GT-alternative to the rally bred cars, and a cheaper alternative to the higher level sports cars...in some sense, it's trying to be a Mustang alternative.
Not innovative, just a choice of which part of the market they wanted to pursue. I'd consider the 350Z a good car, but could have been better. It's weight and comparative lack of power hold it back.

The RX-8 was innovative because it was a 4 dr, 4seat, RWD sedan for sub 30k. It's a stomps on both the low-end BMW 3-series and any of the FWD sedans from nissan/toyota/honda.

Subaru's Legacy was innovative because it undercut Audi as a AWD sedan. It combines the rally heritage with the newfound leading safety ratings. It has cross market appeal with someone that wants a more streetable STi, those that don't want to spring for an Audi, and those that find Volvo boring.

The Impreza was innovative because it gave us awd turbo in a world of n/a FWD compacts. Plus, it had usability as a sedan.

The Miata is innovative because it's still the only affordable convertible around, and it's RWD and damn good sports car on top of that.

On the flip side, I would argue that the car they relied on during their turnaround, the Altima, screwed another car in its lineup, the Maxima. Why is are both cars still in the lineup? One or the other should have been killed and only one V6 upper/midsize sedan should exist. Why buy a Maxima when you can get a G35 Sedan for nearly the same price? Seems like a mistake to me.

I'm not saying Nissan is a bad company, i'm just saying their strategy is not innovation. Their goal is to be better at *existing* segments than the established powers Honda, Toyota, GM. Their goal is *not* to go around creating new types of cars that don't currently exist.

As for the imminent 175-200 hp *RWD* coupe that you've referred to several times...without your actually telling us how you know this, there isn't much anyone can say, is there? You have a source, you've mentioned the rumor, but that's all. I can't refute it, but you haven't proved it. Stalemate.

The point of this thread, however, was whether this Altima coupe will be RWD, and I maintain it won't be.

As to the possibility of a *different* (likely smaller) rwd coupe...well..I concede it's possible, sure, but I'll believe it when I see it. I do not believe that Nissan will be the first one to break into the 20k RWD coupe market. A FWD offering? I've already said they're gonna need and probably will produce a Sentra SE-R replacement, so *that* possibility squares with your rumor.

Show me this true neo-Silvia and I'll believe it. Until then, it's just a dream.
Sorry, but a FWD 250SX or Silvia doesn't excite me the least.

*exitspeed* · 10-24-2006, 01:32 PM

^
I think we've moved on from the original point of the thread a long time ago. Noone really thinks that Altima is going to be RWD. I think the debate now is whether or not we're looking at a lightweight RWD segment in the near future and if Nissan is going to pave the way, or follow the leader.

But you guys are doing abang up job with the debate. If I could I'd pos rep both of you every time you post just cause it's giving me something great to read at work!!!!

TheSquidd · 10-24-2006, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cashizslick

That thing must be very heavy . . . . .

Plus ill be damned that still looks like a fugly sedan, no matter how many doors it has.

OptionZero · 10-24-2006, 02:35 PM

Nissan's answer to the Eclipse? Given that the Eclipse is just a Galant Coupe, i'd say thats right on.

*exitspeed* · 10-24-2006, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptionZero

Nissan's answer to the Eclipse? Given that the Eclipse is just a Galant Coupe, i'd say thats right on.

They have less in common visually the the Altima Coupe and Sedan do. Like stated already a more fair comparison would be the Accord Couple and Sedan or Solora and Camry.

OptionZero · 10-24-2006, 03:08 PM

You're right, the Eclipse and Galant don't look anything alike visually, but from a technical standpoint, it's on the same platform and they share the same engine and such, just like the Accord Coupe/Accord and Camry/Solara.

*exitspeed* · 10-24-2006, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptionZero

You're right, the Eclipse and Galant don't look anything alike visually, but from a technical standpoint, it's on the same platform and they share the same engine and such, just like the Accord Coupe/Accord and Camry/Solara.

Yea, I've toured the Nomal Ill plant were the Eclipse, Galant, Sebring, and Status were/are built. Pretty cool place.

S13 Charlie · 10-24-2006, 04:30 PM

It's a good thing this is the off-topic section, since this thread has gone a bit... off-topic! I might as well add my thoughts to the stew. The altima coupe spy shot that was shown is actually pretty darn good looking in my opinion. As someone stated though, Nissan's nod to heritage probably means that the altima coupe will be FF. This holding true to heritage is why there will be an entry-level FR coupe (2+2), and it will probably be called a ###sx or dare I dream, silvia.. It will absolutely come to the US, since the US is the biggest market for ANY marketable consumer product. As a quick aside, take a look at Lamborghini - they've never had more than one model out at any given time in their history. Yet, right now, they have 4 (if you count the roadsters separately). Granted, that's in a much different segment than the coupe we're all pining for, but it gives you an idea of the power of the US consumer. Factoring in the unheard of cult success of the 240SX (if only drifting blew up at the same time here as it did in Japan, there'd be S15's on used car lots!) there is plenty of room for a <$20k FR model in Nissan's lineup. Remember, people like us who will buy this kind of car would probably modify it up the yinyang, so the more decontented this model is, the more appealing it will be. Hell, even subaru has released the "tuner ready" version of the WRX, knowing that its customers commonly modify their brand-new wrx anyway. Well, I've babbled on way too long, hopefully that all makes sense, and maybe gives us all a little hope for a super-cool Nissan FR drifting machine!

-Charlie

p.s. Yuri, who do you work for? It's been a while since I've seen the visitor badges with the void sticker that shows up after 24 hours..

ispypsi · 10-26-2006, 02:03 AM

Also to add some, I'm pretty sure the Solara is axed completely. Toyota, in comparison to Nissan and Honda, has barely met the performance of the other two since 1999-2000, when both Honda and Nissan started to get serious in FWD v6 power outputs, and take on a little more aggressive styling cues (i.e. newer maximas and altimas, accords...not so much, but more than toyota). Toyota's lineup, while "best selling" (I won't lie, we've owned 3 camrys now), brings subpar performance in both 4 cylinder and v6 configurations. Now, this didn't seem to matter much until about 2000-2001 when we saw the maxima emerge from camry/accord/galant status towards more of the higher end sedan market, targeting toyota avalon and mitsubishi diamante in a sportier way (and dare i say, bmw 3 series). the altima/maxima of the 90's were so close at times (disregarding engine differences), it was a wise move for nissan to step up on the maxima, and bring the altima up to the accord/camry/galant market. toyota saw the blandness of their lineup, hence why the '07 camry is probably the sportiest looking camry ever, and finally beefing the engine performance up to match altima/accord.

now im not 100% sure but ive heard on more than one occasion solara is done. i dont think it was getting the sales numbers, esp the new bubbly pig models. im thinking the s2k and 350z markets didnt help either.

anyways, im quite sure with an altima name, it will remain FWD. what it's to target, im not sure. pontiac G6 coupe (blatant TC ripoff)? eclipse? i haven't quite figured it out yet. i think it's partial to the division in altima owners. the maxima is now a higher end car, somewhat out of the picture, and the performance of the altima in sedan version is quite formidable...yet i think some people will buy the coupe version, being it has the coupe look, but retains the performance and comfort of the 4 door, while not looking actually committing to the "sport car" look.

sadly, i think FWD is becoming the thing not only because of packaging and pricing issues, but because with the development of traction controls and such, its become easier to up the power on FWD platforms and actually see results. i still know it wont hold up to rwd as far as getting that sport car feel, and getting the most out of the performance on the track.

/rambling. more later possibly.

breakindrifts · 10-26-2006, 02:12 AM

I dont really care about them making affordable RWD cars anymore. If I go buy a new car I'm not going to use it for motorsports anyway. I have my 240 for all the RWD bullshit fun.

*exitspeed* · 10-26-2006, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ispypsi

anyways, im quite sure with an altima name, it will remain FWD. what it's to target, im not sure. pontiac G6 coupe (blatant TC ripoff)? eclipse? i haven't quite figured it out yet. i think it's partial to the division in altima owners. the maxima is now a higher end car, somewhat out of the picture, and the performance of the altima in sedan version is quite formidable...yet i think some people will buy the coupe version, being it has the coupe look, but retains the performance and comfort of the 4 door, while not looking actually committing to the "sport car" look.

How can you not be sure? It's as obvious as Phlip's obsession with Neme sister. It's directly targeting the Accord Coupe, Solara, and G6. No if's and's or buts about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ispypsi

sadly, i think FWD is becoming the thing not only because of packaging and pricing issues, but because with the development of traction controls and such, its become easier to up the power on FWD platforms and actually see results. i still know it wont hold up to rwd as far as getting that sport car feel, and getting the most out of the performance on the track.

This statement is about 4 years too old. On the contrary, in the last 2-3 years we've seen manufacturers build more RWD cars then we have in the last 20 years. And GM is planning on converting another handful of cars over to RWD in the next few years to come.

S13 Charlie · 10-26-2006, 09:29 AM

The RWD cars put out by Daimler-Chrysler were relatively easy to do because of the parts sharing with Mercedes-Benz after the merge several years ago. Other than D-C, there aren't too many manufacturers making new RWD cars. However, with the government's requirement that all new cars have some sort of electronic stability control, we might start seeing more new RWD models.

*exitspeed* · 10-26-2006, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S13 Charlie

The RWD cars put out by Daimler-Chrysler were relatively easy to do because of the parts sharing with Mercedes-Benz after the merge several years ago. Other than D-C, there aren't too many manufacturers making new RWD cars. However, with the government's requirement that all new cars have some sort of electronic stability control, we might start seeing more new RWD models.

BMW's entire line-up is RWD. Infinity's lineup in entirely RWD. And like Yuri and I have stated GM is switching a bunch of cars over to RWD in the Chevy, Buick and Pontiac lines. The CTS is RWD. There's more cars that are RWD then people think and a whole lot more coming.

ispypsi · 10-26-2006, 05:27 PM

i believe minus the ES, the lexus line is all RWD (i forget on the RX line).

good points. it was late when i wrote that lol.

but i guess it's just the fact i have some sticker shock still because i don't want to accept the fact that getting a rwd car is gonna cost me. there are lots more RWD cars coming out again finally, but seeing how everyone can pump out a sporty powerful fwd car for around $20k, i'd like to see more rwd offerings in that range, but i fear its just not as feasible. the gm solstice/sky body comes to mind, and the miata (and this other mazda im hearing about), but not much else until you start getting into 350z/s2k/3 series territories up and around $30k, and above that you have the nicer bmws, caddys, benzs, etc.

coincidence i got a thing in my local newspaper today about the guide of vehicles for the '07 year. for some reason there is no detailed toyota/lexus/infiniti/benz section, but it does list alot of the popular models and cars that are getting the axe. i guess i was wrong and solara is still in it (why?), but i know i've heard its on its last legs unless they start selling more.

some notables im reading through:

-saturn sky, $23,600 (but probably the 177hp 2.4L, not the 260hp turbo 2.0L) ---hmm, it's like a KA vs SR in saturn world lol
-pontiac solstice $21,400 (same as sky, a little cheaper, again probably more for the 260hp turbo version)
-miata $21,000 (170 hp 2.0L)
-rx-8 $25,500 (not sure why i'm listing this cuz i think they suck)
-350z $28,000 (but expect 310-320 out of the reworked VQ)

The S2000 is in it's last year of production for '07, the RSX is gone, as is the GTO, though '09 brings the camaro back...maybe.

OptionZero · 10-26-2006, 06:56 PM

The reason why it's easy to pump out FWD sporty cars in the 20k range is that FWD parts and chassis are shared with all the econoboxes (Civic/Corolla/etc) as well as the family sedans and crap. Parts sharing = cheaper production. And, of course, FWD is "safer" for the masses.

RWD is exclusively available in the upper ranges of a lineup, so to make a RWD cheap sports car you'd be pulling parts from the lower volume end of the model lineup. This is a broad generalization, but i think it fairly sums up the rationale of the big companies.

They say the s2000 is "in the last year of production" every year, it's like a running gag among S2K'ers. It's still a terrific car and excellent value.

if sticker shock is hitting you, just pick up a used car. New cars are a loss anyways, if dealing with dealerships is bugging you, ...wait till depreciation hits. Used cars will always produce better value for money.

drift freaq · 10-26-2006, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptionZero

I would not consider the 350Z innovative at all, it's just a modern interpretation of the 300ZX. The 350Z is better than the 300ZX, but that does not make it creative in any sense. Moreover, it's destroyed by other sports cars in the same bracket (STi and EVO), and can't quite match any of the offerings above it (M3 and Corvette). It's sort of a softer GT-alternative to the rally bred cars, and a cheaper alternative to the higher level sports cars...in some sense, it's trying to be a Mustang alternative.
Not innovative, just a choice of which part of the market they wanted to pursue. I'd consider the 350Z a good car, but could have been better. It's weight and comparative lack of power hold it back.

The RX-8 was innovative because it was a 4 dr, 4seat, RWD sedan for sub 30k. It's a stomps on both the low-end BMW 3-series and any of the FWD sedans from nissan/toyota/honda.

Subaru's Legacy was innovative because it undercut Audi as a AWD sedan. It combines the rally heritage with the newfound leading safety ratings. It has cross market appeal with someone that wants a more streetable STi, those that don't want to spring for an Audi, and those that find Volvo boring.

The Impreza was innovative because it gave us awd turbo in a world of n/a FWD compacts. Plus, it had usability as a sedan.

The Miata is innovative because it's still the only affordable convertible around, and it's RWD and damn good sports car on top of that.

I'm not saying Nissan is a bad company, i'm just saying their strategy is not innovation. Their goal is to be better at *existing* segments than the established powers Honda, Toyota, GM. Their goal is *not* to go around creating new types of cars that don't currently exist.

As for the imminent 175-200 hp *RWD* coupe that you've referred to several times...without your actually telling us how you know this, there isn't much anyone can say, is there? You have a source, you've mentioned the rumor, but that's all. I can't refute it, but you haven't proved it. Stalemate.

The point of this thread, however, was whether this Altima coupe will be RWD, and I maintain it won't be.

As to the possibility of a *different* (likely smaller) rwd coupe...well..I concede it's possible, sure, but I'll believe it when I see it. I do not believe that Nissan will be the first one to break into the 20k RWD coupe market. A FWD offering? I've already said they're gonna need and probably will produce a Sentra SE-R replacement, so *that* possibility squares with your rumor.

Show me this true neo-Silvia and I'll believe it. Until then, it's just a dream.
Sorry, but a FWD 250SX or Silvia doesn't excite me the least.

If you think a 350z is a modern interpretation of a 300zx your one misguided person. Its a modern day interpretation of everything the 240z was about . Oh ya I forgot you weren't born then so you either have no recollection or really have not studied the fact.
On the subject of your so called lack of Power for the 350z , hmmm again you show your ignorance, in engine technology
A NA V6 pumping out 300HP is an achievement.
You need to study more about NA engines to understand this. Or should we just call you turbo boy.

To call a STI or a EVO a sports car again proves your of the Honda kid generation. Who thinks any small econo box beefed up with better suspensiona and a turbo engine is a sports car. Its not. Its a sports sedan and a whole different catagory. Add to the fact that both are glorified econoboxs built specifically so the companies can take them Pro Rally racing to advertise product. Plus they are fucking ugly to boot. No competition in my book and do not deserve to be compared to a 350 and it has nothing to do with Nissan it has to do with what they are. If Nissan built something like that I would still feel the same way.

On to the BMW M3 and Corvette comparisions. Again you blend genres till you can't see the trees for the woods. The M3 is a sports sedan ask anyone at BMW.
The Corvette is somewhere between a Sports GT and the lower rungs of Super Car. You really need to study up on what Sports cars in the true sense of the word are. Granted the Corvette is closer but its in a completely different catagory than a 350z. You FAIL in comparisons 101.

RX8's Innovative ya, fuck ugly, hell yes. Miata Innovative? Fucking give me a fucking break. Its a 1968 Lotus Elan convertible all over again. The only thing that made it a hit and was not innovative at all was the the fact that they followed Nissans strategy with the original 240z and brought it in a completely entry level pricing when it first came out. Today the damn cars cost as much as a lot of others, its no great shakes anymore and the new styling is ugly.

As far as the Neo Silvia in your au contraire so elitist words. Just fucking call it a new Silvia and spare us your attempt at using hip verbiage to call it new.
If you read Japanese publications like I do you would have seen the info I was alluding to. Nissan released ads for it a year ago.
Its not a pipe dream of mine because when it comes out I will not buy one. I will have since moved on to other platforms I am interested in. My 240 suits me fine,I will keep it and work on other stuff.
As far as the Altima goes I said it earlier and all you fools need to listen up. the Hollywood reporter was the one releasing and reporting those photos. Do you guys even know what the Hollywood reporters larger news thrust is? Entertainment not automotive. I would not trust a word those guys say about a new car. They will bullshit till the cows come home.
Option you asked for this and I gave it to you. I Really suggest you do some more learning about Sports cars, Engines and technology before trying to argue with someone who was driving sports cars when your ass was still in diapers.

P.S. if you think I was argueing this from the side of being pro nissan well ya this is a Nissan forum.
Does it mean I hate other products no . Does it mean I realize the quality of some other products?Well you sure as hell won't know because your lack of knowledge statements led to a defensive posture on my part.
I appreciate other brands, when the time is right, but I will defend Nissan achievements because ya this is a Nissan forum. I think you and a lot of other people here might not belong here because you really are not Nissan or 240 people your bandwagon jumpers.

OptionZero · 10-26-2006, 08:30 PM

First of all, your post does nothing to serve the topic at hand: a cheap, RWD sports car offering from Nissan. All you're doing is attacking me on semantics and your perception of "me". Neither is advancing the topic in the least, and again I point out that this sudden passion you're showing just "happens" to
coincide with my statement that Nissan is not innovative.

I'm a turbo boy
Taking your second point first, to get it out of the way: I think you're being very immature in your argument: "turbo boy"? Seriously? This from the someone known for his knowledge of the RB25DET and RB26DETT? Again, you have no idea about my engine philosophy and preferences. Do you know what I drive? A na/ka. What will I spend my money on? I dunno, but i'm interested in swapping in a VQ or V8. I've spent maybe 10% of my total car investment in my engine/drivetrain, and that's simply because my clutch gave out and my car began as an auto. Some turbo boy I am.

The EVO/Sti are not sports car
Still, that's all just shit talking...onto substance: the EVO is not a sports car, but rather a sports sedan. If you want to get technical, a sedan is a type of car; a sports sedan is therefore a type of sports car. Happy?

I didn't think so.

I turn to reality: if you are in the market for performance automobile in the 30k range, what cars do you consider? The 350Z, the EVO, the STi, the S2k, maybe some variant of the Mustang. You may not consider the rally cars "sports cars", but the fact remains that car buyers with that price range and performance in mind will likely be comparing that group of cars.

This may also be the time to point out that despite not being a "Sports car" in your mind, the "sports sedans," EVO and STi, offer significantly better performance than 350z, what *you* consider a truer sports car. You think perhaps Nissan waggled a bit there? Even the "Track edition" 350Z offers marginal improvement from its lesser trim levels; if Nissan were going to make a track model, they should have shaved off far more weight and given us far more than a badge and a sticker markup.

Honda Generation?
I'm don't really want to dignify your "honda generation" remark, but I'd like to point out that I didn't really have much of a say in when I was born, and it just so happened that I grew up during the mid/late '90s and early '00s when Honda was dominating the low end sports car market (one in which Nissan wasn't doing so great...but you knew that, eh ?). If i grew up in the current trend, I'd be part of the "Drifter" generation, but...again, is that my fault?
I think that my views are based on my understanding of cars, as gained from talking to other enthusiasts, reading magazines, working on my car and others' cars, researching the internet, amongst other experiences- not just from whatever happened to be popular when I happened to grow up. Again, your assumptions are not reality.

M3 and Corvette
Both of these cars lie above the 350Z's price range, but they also offer more than the 350Z. It is not inconceivable that someone shopping for an upper level 350Z in the 35k range would also consider stepping up to the next bracket of RWD sports cars. Whether the M3 is a "Sedan" or not is irrelevant; some people will still cross-shop the two.

Other innovative cars
Ugliness is subjective. I personally think the RX-8 looks better than the 350Z; the new miata styling, however, is pretty poor IMHO.
I call the RX-8 innovative because pretty much lies in its own market segment: 27k, RWD, sporty but leaning toward usability. Its features are also unique; the suicide doors and rotary engine (i'm not gonna debate its benefits or drawbacks). It straddles the gap between the EVO/350Z folks and the Camry/Accord/Altima people and manages to be different from either.

The Miata is innovative because...well, look at the 90's: it had no competition. It outlasted both MR2's, the CRX/del Sol. It's a fun car both usable on a daily basis and on the track, and it's abilities to be driven fast have never been doubted (omg it's not a nissan though!). Mazda did what no one else came close to and kept it successful for over a decade. Perhaps the idea of a cheap roadster is not particularly creative, but its execution and longetivity should be applauded.

The Neo-Silvia
Attacking my choice of language...well, ok, you've done it and said your peace. What exactly have you accomplished with that?
I haven't attacked the 240, in fact, you know...I own one and drive one and still dump money into one, so...I guess we're not that different! Horray?
Nissan may have released ads for it in Japan, and you may have seen/heard rumblings but...again, where's the car? The rumors have been swirling for quite a while, yet we have nothing to show for it. I'll believe it when I see it on a Nissan dealership on US soil.

You gave it to me
What exactly have you given me except some off-base personal remarks? Thank you for sharing your *opinion* of some other cars, as well as of me, but...thats all you've done.

Listen, dfreaq, I'm not attacking your knowledge of cars, I'm certainly not saying I know more than you, and I'm not even saying I'm always right or mostly right. The fact, however, that you've been "driving cars while I was in daipers" only shows you have more experience. That does not necessarily mean your right; nor does it mean that what I've said has no weight.

You say this is a Nissan forum. Yeah, it is. All that means, IMHO, is that we like what Nissan did/does. It does not mean that we cannot be critical of Nissan or supportive of other brands. You say that you're not blindly bashing other brands, but your actual post undermines that. You post most passionately at the slightest hint of anything "anti-Nissan", and you're unabashedly contemptuous of non-Nissans (Mazda, subie, mitsu, whatever).

That this is a Nissan forum does not mean you need to "defend" Nissan achievements; if they were truly achievements, they would defend themselves. What we're gathered here to do is *appreciate* the cars Nissan has built- that does not mean we cannot be *honest* about what Nissan has done well or what they have done poorly.

I like my Nissan 240sx. I also like some other Nissans, like the R32 GTR and the S15 Silvia. Yet I do not consider myself a "nissan" guy just because I happen to own one and like others; first and foremost I would like to consider myself a *CAR* guy. I just happen to drive a Nissan, but I'll appreciate any car from any manufacturer if it's quality; I'll bash any car from any manufacturer that's not. Hopefully, others are capable of doing the same.

Your final statement is completely ridiculous. I can't post here because I don't agree with some of Nissan's decisions? I'm a 240 bandwagon jumper now? Do you honestly believe that?

All that does exemplify the biggest flaw in our society today: the automatic presumption that someone who does not agree with what you believe is not only wrong, but some how evil or unworthy. I don't know you, and you don't know me; to think that you can judge me is to be either incredibly arrogant, incredibly ignorant, or some mix of both.

You're clearly an intelligent person- that's obvious from your posts about RBs, skylines, and your own parts business (which I've supported), but please don't cave in to the most basic of instincts and jump to the easy conclusions just because they're...easy.

illvialuver · 10-27-2006, 03:26 AM

my brother has a solara, and on there forum they have pics of this and a report that says it will be front wheel drive. i dont like it. i wish they would make another 240, but if this was it it would be a shame, because in a year they will have four cars that share alot of the same body styling. the new gtr, g35, 350z and this new altima? i saw a concept s16 that looked pretty cool. way coller than this g35 wanna be.

curbhuggerrps13 · 03-22-2007, 05:35 AM

would be sweeter if it was awd

10-24-2006, 10:57 AM	#34
exitspeed aWingThing.com Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Age: 41 Posts: 20,898 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	^ Yuri...you are my idol. i've discussed almost every point you have brought with some of my friends. I agree with you entirely. Thanks for putting the thoughts into text. __________________ What I do for a living...www.mhrussell.com

10-24-2006, 12:19 PM	#37
exitspeed aWingThing.com Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Age: 41 Posts: 20,898 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	The Kabura is a very beautiful car. I really hope it does see the light of day and sparks a fire under Nissan's ass to build a competitor. It would be so great to see this segment explode in the near future. __________________ What I do for a living...www.mhrussell.com

10-24-2006, 12:44 PM	#40
exitspeed aWingThing.com Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Age: 41 Posts: 20,898 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	There is also rumors of GM building a small Corvette based off the Kappa platform. Obviously with the success of the Sky and Solstice GM wants to whore out that platform with as many cars as possible, which alos makes it more cost effective at the same time. With this said, if GM can build a successful Miata fighter on their first attempt (refering to the sales numbers), then anything in this industry is possible. __________________ What I do for a living...www.mhrussell.com

10-24-2006, 01:17 PM	#41
HyperTek Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Cali Posts: 13,222 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	i wont be surprised if its Nissans answer to the Eclipse.. hell if u didnt know about the eclipse, it looked like it coulda been a rwd __________________ Keep it Classy

10-24-2006, 01:32 PM	#43
exitspeed aWingThing.com Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Age: 41 Posts: 20,898 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	^ I think we've moved on from the original point of the thread a long time ago. Noone really thinks that Altima is going to be RWD. I think the debate now is whether or not we're looking at a lightweight RWD segment in the near future and if Nissan is going to pave the way, or follow the leader. But you guys are doing abang up job with the debate. If I could I'd pos rep both of you every time you post just cause it's giving me something great to read at work!!!! __________________ What I do for a living...www.mhrussell.com

10-23-2006, 11:47 PM	#31
OptionZero Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Norcal Age: 37 Posts: 6,262 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: OptionZero Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Hrm...japan only? I don't know if that would work. Working against that are... cost: if you limit yourself to one country (or area, since China, Korea, etc probably get japanese exclusive cars easily enough) worth of sales, you're limiting your profits from that car. Can Nissan afford to make a car that could only be sold in one area? Remember Nissan doesn't have the deep pockets that Nissan or Toyota do, nor the independence, which leads me to Renault: free of any parent company, I could easily see Nissan spitting out sports cars that we don't get here. Yet with the bottom line in mind, and global market share important, does Renault let Nissan play with a cheap, rwd sports car for Japan only? I dunno how the interaction between Nissan and Reanult works, so I can't say. on the other hand... Japan: It is the home market, and not a small one. FM/VQ platform: thanks to the use of the VQ in so many cars (Quest, Infiniti's, pathfinder, altima, maxima, Z, etc) and platform sharing among many of those cars, it might not be too much work ...all they'd have to do perhaps is shrink it down, strip out some luxury shit, and depower it, right? they wouldn't even need to worry about LHD versions just throwing shit out there shrug anyone here familiar with the automotive industry? over on FreshAlloy there's rumblings about unmet sales expectations by Nissan USA...if so, kiss any fun cars good bye

10-24-2006, 10:53 AM	#33
'90RPS13 BANNED Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NC Age: 34 Posts: 2,839 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Ok, so that seems like a writeup for Car and Driver. Very nice. I cant wait for a new FR Platform to come from Nissan. *a

10-24-2006, 11:22 AM	#35
OptionZero Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Norcal Age: 37 Posts: 6,262 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: OptionZero Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Toyota, a small RWD coupe? I'll believe it when I see it. They'll pump out a dozen more hybrid shitboxes before they make any sports car worth talking about. Nissan is a follower, not an innovator. While your speculation about other companies does may be true, it is not a case that this car will be RWD- it would only be argument for the next Altima or whatver might be RWD. Even though the EVO was a no-brainer move, remember that the EVO didn't come around until the Impreza had been around for a few years. Best case scenario is that the Kabura comes out in '08 or '09 equipped with the Miata engine, sells very well, then Nissan pumps out a rwd coupe in '10, then Kabura comes back with a RENESIS variant that beats it. We don't get this RWD coupe anytime soon, assuming it ever comes out.

10-24-2006, 12:30 PM	#38
OptionZero Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Norcal Age: 37 Posts: 6,262 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: OptionZero Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Well, I defer to your experience with Toyota. Perhaps they are thinking about it - that could well be the case. On the other hand, a large company like Toyota has the ability to explore possibilities however remote they may be (like this neo-AE86) without really committing the least to doing it. It's one of the benefits of being so profitable; you can play around with ideas less than seriously. It also helps them stay on top: they don't intend to bring up a new RWD coupe, but if a market for one arises unexpectedly, they already have the foundations for one laid out. Question: does Toyota have an existing platform that can be used? Offhand, the IS-chassis seems too big to be made into a cheapo, RWD coupe, and do they even have a small 4cyl or v6 to stick in there? 3S-GTE is long gone, i assume. -Mazda? Whats that last pic, i really don't get it? Were you privy to some internal discussions? I LIKE the Kabura quite a lot, and I trust Mazda to make a car that can fuckin handle! (rx7, miata, Mazdaspeed protege) They seem to thrive on fundamentally sound cars without relying on AWD or electronic trickery like so many companies are doing nowadays (BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, even Mitsu and Subie). If I were given the choice on these theoretical coupes from Nissan/Mazda/Toyota, I'd take the Kabura because it looks badass...assuming they straighten out any reliability problems. Clarification: I'm arguing against the probability of a RWD coupe because thats what I think is reality; that does not mean I don't WANT a RWD coupe. Since I'll graduate in '09 and probably get a fulltime job in '10, the timeline means i'll start getting real paychecks just in time for these babies, so my heart wants these...just my mind doesn't believe it. if the industry standard were for every maker to have a cheap, light, LSD-equipped, RWD entry level sports car, wouldn't that make everyone's day?

10-24-2006, 01:19 PM	#42
OptionZero Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Norcal Age: 37 Posts: 6,262 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: OptionZero Feedback Score: 2 reviews	You're arguing in the broad historical context of Nissan's innovation, and I think, maybe even a little defensive about anyone that has any hint of Anti-nissan sentiment. Please consider that I am talking in the context of this purportedly RWD "altima coupe", and the recent history of Nissan's offerings. What car have they put released recently that was truly innovative? I would not consider the 350Z innovative at all, it's just a modern interpretation of the 300ZX. The 350Z is better than the 300ZX, but that does not make it creative in any sense. Moreover, it's destroyed by other sports cars in the same bracket (STi and EVO), and can't quite match any of the offerings above it (M3 and Corvette). It's sort of a softer GT-alternative to the rally bred cars, and a cheaper alternative to the higher level sports cars...in some sense, it's trying to be a Mustang alternative. Not innovative, just a choice of which part of the market they wanted to pursue. I'd consider the 350Z a good car, but could have been better. It's weight and comparative lack of power hold it back. The RX-8 was innovative because it was a 4 dr, 4seat, RWD sedan for sub 30k. It's a stomps on both the low-end BMW 3-series and any of the FWD sedans from nissan/toyota/honda. Subaru's Legacy was innovative because it undercut Audi as a AWD sedan. It combines the rally heritage with the newfound leading safety ratings. It has cross market appeal with someone that wants a more streetable STi, those that don't want to spring for an Audi, and those that find Volvo boring. The Impreza was innovative because it gave us awd turbo in a world of n/a FWD compacts. Plus, it had usability as a sedan. The Miata is innovative because it's still the only affordable convertible around, and it's RWD and damn good sports car on top of that. On the flip side, I would argue that the car they relied on during their turnaround, the Altima, screwed another car in its lineup, the Maxima. Why is are both cars still in the lineup? One or the other should have been killed and only one V6 upper/midsize sedan should exist. Why buy a Maxima when you can get a G35 Sedan for nearly the same price? Seems like a mistake to me. I'm not saying Nissan is a bad company, i'm just saying their strategy is not innovation. Their goal is to be better at existing segments than the established powers Honda, Toyota, GM. Their goal is not to go around creating new types of cars that don't currently exist. As for the imminent 175-200 hp RWD coupe that you've referred to several times...without your actually telling us how you know this, there isn't much anyone can say, is there? You have a source, you've mentioned the rumor, but that's all. I can't refute it, but you haven't proved it. Stalemate. The point of this thread, however, was whether this Altima coupe will be RWD, and I maintain it won't be. As to the possibility of a different (likely smaller) rwd coupe...well..I concede it's possible, sure, but I'll believe it when I see it. I do not believe that Nissan will be the first one to break into the 20k RWD coupe market. A FWD offering? I've already said they're gonna need and probably will produce a Sentra SE-R replacement, so that possibility squares with your rumor. Show me this true neo-Silvia and I'll believe it. Until then, it's just a dream. Sorry, but a FWD 250SX or Silvia doesn't excite me the least.

10-24-2006, 02:35 PM	#45
OptionZero Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Norcal Age: 37 Posts: 6,262 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: OptionZero Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Nissan's answer to the Eclipse? Given that the Eclipse is just a Galant Coupe, i'd say thats right on.

10-24-2006, 03:08 PM	#47
OptionZero Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Norcal Age: 37 Posts: 6,262 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: OptionZero Feedback Score: 2 reviews	You're right, the Eclipse and Galant don't look anything alike visually, but from a technical standpoint, it's on the same platform and they share the same engine and such, just like the Accord Coupe/Accord and Camry/Solara.

10-24-2006, 04:30 PM	#49
S13 Charlie Zilvia Addict Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Diego Posts: 716 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	It's a good thing this is the off-topic section, since this thread has gone a bit... off-topic! I might as well add my thoughts to the stew. The altima coupe spy shot that was shown is actually pretty darn good looking in my opinion. As someone stated though, Nissan's nod to heritage probably means that the altima coupe will be FF. This holding true to heritage is why there will be an entry-level FR coupe (2+2), and it will probably be called a ###sx or dare I dream, silvia.. It will absolutely come to the US, since the US is the biggest market for ANY marketable consumer product. As a quick aside, take a look at Lamborghini - they've never had more than one model out at any given time in their history. Yet, right now, they have 4 (if you count the roadsters separately). Granted, that's in a much different segment than the coupe we're all pining for, but it gives you an idea of the power of the US consumer. Factoring in the unheard of cult success of the 240SX (if only drifting blew up at the same time here as it did in Japan, there'd be S15's on used car lots!) there is plenty of room for a <$20k FR model in Nissan's lineup. Remember, people like us who will buy this kind of car would probably modify it up the yinyang, so the more decontented this model is, the more appealing it will be. Hell, even subaru has released the "tuner ready" version of the WRX, knowing that its customers commonly modify their brand-new wrx anyway. Well, I've babbled on way too long, hopefully that all makes sense, and maybe gives us all a little hope for a super-cool Nissan FR drifting machine! -Charlie p.s. Yuri, who do you work for? It's been a while since I've seen the visitor badges with the void sticker that shows up after 24 hours..

10-26-2006, 02:03 AM	#50
ispypsi Leaky Injector Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: FL Age: 38 Posts: 97 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Also to add some, I'm pretty sure the Solara is axed completely. Toyota, in comparison to Nissan and Honda, has barely met the performance of the other two since 1999-2000, when both Honda and Nissan started to get serious in FWD v6 power outputs, and take on a little more aggressive styling cues (i.e. newer maximas and altimas, accords...not so much, but more than toyota). Toyota's lineup, while "best selling" (I won't lie, we've owned 3 camrys now), brings subpar performance in both 4 cylinder and v6 configurations. Now, this didn't seem to matter much until about 2000-2001 when we saw the maxima emerge from camry/accord/galant status towards more of the higher end sedan market, targeting toyota avalon and mitsubishi diamante in a sportier way (and dare i say, bmw 3 series). the altima/maxima of the 90's were so close at times (disregarding engine differences), it was a wise move for nissan to step up on the maxima, and bring the altima up to the accord/camry/galant market. toyota saw the blandness of their lineup, hence why the '07 camry is probably the sportiest looking camry ever, and finally beefing the engine performance up to match altima/accord. now im not 100% sure but ive heard on more than one occasion solara is done. i dont think it was getting the sales numbers, esp the new bubbly pig models. im thinking the s2k and 350z markets didnt help either. anyways, im quite sure with an altima name, it will remain FWD. what it's to target, im not sure. pontiac G6 coupe (blatant TC ripoff)? eclipse? i haven't quite figured it out yet. i think it's partial to the division in altima owners. the maxima is now a higher end car, somewhat out of the picture, and the performance of the altima in sedan version is quite formidable...yet i think some people will buy the coupe version, being it has the coupe look, but retains the performance and comfort of the 4 door, while not looking actually committing to the "sport car" look. sadly, i think FWD is becoming the thing not only because of packaging and pricing issues, but because with the development of traction controls and such, its become easier to up the power on FWD platforms and actually see results. i still know it wont hold up to rwd as far as getting that sport car feel, and getting the most out of the performance on the track. /rambling. more later possibly. __________________ 97 240sx ka-t. 12.8 @ 108mph. for sale $8K in Florida. 08 mazdaspeed 3. faster + quieter = sleeper.

10-26-2006, 02:12 AM	#51
breakindrifts Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Agoura Hills, CA Age: 33 Posts: 1,006 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I dont really care about them making affordable RWD cars anymore. If I go buy a new car I'm not going to use it for motorsports anyway. I have my 240 for all the RWD bullshit fun. __________________ [

10-26-2006, 09:29 AM	#53
S13 Charlie Zilvia Addict Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Diego Posts: 716 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	The RWD cars put out by Daimler-Chrysler were relatively easy to do because of the parts sharing with Mercedes-Benz after the merge several years ago. Other than D-C, there aren't too many manufacturers making new RWD cars. However, with the government's requirement that all new cars have some sort of electronic stability control, we might start seeing more new RWD models.

10-26-2006, 05:27 PM	#55
ispypsi Leaky Injector Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: FL Age: 38 Posts: 97 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i believe minus the ES, the lexus line is all RWD (i forget on the RX line). good points. it was late when i wrote that lol. but i guess it's just the fact i have some sticker shock still because i don't want to accept the fact that getting a rwd car is gonna cost me. there are lots more RWD cars coming out again finally, but seeing how everyone can pump out a sporty powerful fwd car for around $20k, i'd like to see more rwd offerings in that range, but i fear its just not as feasible. the gm solstice/sky body comes to mind, and the miata (and this other mazda im hearing about), but not much else until you start getting into 350z/s2k/3 series territories up and around $30k, and above that you have the nicer bmws, caddys, benzs, etc. coincidence i got a thing in my local newspaper today about the guide of vehicles for the '07 year. for some reason there is no detailed toyota/lexus/infiniti/benz section, but it does list alot of the popular models and cars that are getting the axe. i guess i was wrong and solara is still in it (why?), but i know i've heard its on its last legs unless they start selling more. some notables im reading through: -saturn sky, $23,600 (but probably the 177hp 2.4L, not the 260hp turbo 2.0L) ---hmm, it's like a KA vs SR in saturn world lol -pontiac solstice $21,400 (same as sky, a little cheaper, again probably more for the 260hp turbo version) -miata $21,000 (170 hp 2.0L) -rx-8 $25,500 (not sure why i'm listing this cuz i think they suck) -350z $28,000 (but expect 310-320 out of the reworked VQ) The S2000 is in it's last year of production for '07, the RSX is gone, as is the GTO, though '09 brings the camaro back...maybe.

10-26-2006, 06:56 PM	#56
OptionZero Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Norcal Age: 37 Posts: 6,262 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: OptionZero Feedback Score: 2 reviews	The reason why it's easy to pump out FWD sporty cars in the 20k range is that FWD parts and chassis are shared with all the econoboxes (Civic/Corolla/etc) as well as the family sedans and crap. Parts sharing = cheaper production. And, of course, FWD is "safer" for the masses. RWD is exclusively available in the upper ranges of a lineup, so to make a RWD cheap sports car you'd be pulling parts from the lower volume end of the model lineup. This is a broad generalization, but i think it fairly sums up the rationale of the big companies. They say the s2000 is "in the last year of production" every year, it's like a running gag among S2K'ers. It's still a terrific car and excellent value. if sticker shock is hitting you, just pick up a used car. New cars are a loss anyways, if dealing with dealerships is bugging you, ...wait till depreciation hits. Used cars will always produce better value for money.

10-26-2006, 08:30 PM	#58
OptionZero Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Norcal Age: 37 Posts: 6,262 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: OptionZero Feedback Score: 2 reviews	First of all, your post does nothing to serve the topic at hand: a cheap, RWD sports car offering from Nissan. All you're doing is attacking me on semantics and your perception of "me". Neither is advancing the topic in the least, and again I point out that this sudden passion you're showing just "happens" to coincide with my statement that Nissan is not innovative. I'm a turbo boy Taking your second point first, to get it out of the way: I think you're being very immature in your argument: "turbo boy"? Seriously? This from the someone known for his knowledge of the RB25DET and RB26DETT? Again, you have no idea about my engine philosophy and preferences. Do you know what I drive? A na/ka. What will I spend my money on? I dunno, but i'm interested in swapping in a VQ or V8. I've spent maybe 10% of my total car investment in my engine/drivetrain, and that's simply because my clutch gave out and my car began as an auto. Some turbo boy I am. The EVO/Sti are not sports car Still, that's all just shit talking...onto substance: the EVO is not a sports car, but rather a sports sedan. If you want to get technical, a sedan is a type of car; a sports sedan is therefore a type of sports car. Happy? I didn't think so. I turn to reality: if you are in the market for performance automobile in the 30k range, what cars do you consider? The 350Z, the EVO, the STi, the S2k, maybe some variant of the Mustang. You may not consider the rally cars "sports cars", but the fact remains that car buyers with that price range and performance in mind will likely be comparing that group of cars. This may also be the time to point out that despite not being a "Sports car" in your mind, the "sports sedans," EVO and STi, offer significantly better performance than 350z, what you consider a truer sports car. You think perhaps Nissan waggled a bit there? Even the "Track edition" 350Z offers marginal improvement from its lesser trim levels; if Nissan were going to make a track model, they should have shaved off far more weight and given us far more than a badge and a sticker markup. Honda Generation? I'm don't really want to dignify your "honda generation" remark, but I'd like to point out that I didn't really have much of a say in when I was born, and it just so happened that I grew up during the mid/late '90s and early '00s when Honda was dominating the low end sports car market (one in which Nissan wasn't doing so great...but you knew that, eh ?). If i grew up in the current trend, I'd be part of the "Drifter" generation, but...again, is that my fault? I think that my views are based on my understanding of cars, as gained from talking to other enthusiasts, reading magazines, working on my car and others' cars, researching the internet, amongst other experiences- not just from whatever happened to be popular when I happened to grow up. Again, your assumptions are not reality. M3 and Corvette Both of these cars lie above the 350Z's price range, but they also offer more than the 350Z. It is not inconceivable that someone shopping for an upper level 350Z in the 35k range would also consider stepping up to the next bracket of RWD sports cars. Whether the M3 is a "Sedan" or not is irrelevant; some people will still cross-shop the two. Other innovative cars Ugliness is subjective. I personally think the RX-8 looks better than the 350Z; the new miata styling, however, is pretty poor IMHO. I call the RX-8 innovative because pretty much lies in its own market segment: 27k, RWD, sporty but leaning toward usability. Its features are also unique; the suicide doors and rotary engine (i'm not gonna debate its benefits or drawbacks). It straddles the gap between the EVO/350Z folks and the Camry/Accord/Altima people and manages to be different from either. The Miata is innovative because...well, look at the 90's: it had no competition. It outlasted both MR2's, the CRX/del Sol. It's a fun car both usable on a daily basis and on the track, and it's abilities to be driven fast have never been doubted (omg it's not a nissan though!). Mazda did what no one else came close to and kept it successful for over a decade. Perhaps the idea of a cheap roadster is not particularly creative, but its execution and longetivity should be applauded. The Neo-Silvia Attacking my choice of language...well, ok, you've done it and said your peace. What exactly have you accomplished with that? I haven't attacked the 240, in fact, you know...I own one and drive one and still dump money into one, so...I guess we're not that different! Horray? Nissan may have released ads for it in Japan, and you may have seen/heard rumblings but...again, where's the car? The rumors have been swirling for quite a while, yet we have nothing to show for it. I'll believe it when I see it on a Nissan dealership on US soil. You gave it to me What exactly have you given me except some off-base personal remarks? Thank you for sharing your opinion of some other cars, as well as of me, but...thats all you've done. Listen, dfreaq, I'm not attacking your knowledge of cars, I'm certainly not saying I know more than you, and I'm not even saying I'm always right or mostly right. The fact, however, that you've been "driving cars while I was in daipers" only shows you have more experience. That does not necessarily mean your right; nor does it mean that what I've said has no weight. You say this is a Nissan forum. Yeah, it is. All that means, IMHO, is that we like what Nissan did/does. It does not mean that we cannot be critical of Nissan or supportive of other brands. You say that you're not blindly bashing other brands, but your actual post undermines that. You post most passionately at the slightest hint of anything "anti-Nissan", and you're unabashedly contemptuous of non-Nissans (Mazda, subie, mitsu, whatever). That this is a Nissan forum does not mean you need to "defend" Nissan achievements; if they were truly achievements, they would defend themselves. What we're gathered here to do is appreciate the cars Nissan has built- that does not mean we cannot be honest about what Nissan has done well or what they have done poorly. I like my Nissan 240sx. I also like some other Nissans, like the R32 GTR and the S15 Silvia. Yet I do not consider myself a "nissan" guy just because I happen to own one and like others; first and foremost I would like to consider myself a CAR guy. I just happen to drive a Nissan, but I'll appreciate any car from any manufacturer if it's quality; I'll bash any car from any manufacturer that's not. Hopefully, others are capable of doing the same. Your final statement is completely ridiculous. I can't post here because I don't agree with some of Nissan's decisions? I'm a 240 bandwagon jumper now? Do you honestly believe that? All that does exemplify the biggest flaw in our society today: the automatic presumption that someone who does not agree with what you believe is not only wrong, but some how evil or unworthy. I don't know you, and you don't know me; to think that you can judge me is to be either incredibly arrogant, incredibly ignorant, or some mix of both. You're clearly an intelligent person- that's obvious from your posts about RBs, skylines, and your own parts business (which I've supported), but please don't cave in to the most basic of instincts and jump to the easy conclusions just because they're...easy.

10-27-2006, 03:26 AM	#59
illvialuver Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: M-A-R-S... MARS BITCHES Age: 38 Posts: 5,065 Trader Rating: (35) Feedback Score: 35 reviews	my brother has a solara, and on there forum they have pics of this and a report that says it will be front wheel drive. i dont like it. i wish they would make another 240, but if this was it it would be a shame, because in a year they will have four cars that share alot of the same body styling. the new gtr, g35, 350z and this new altima? i saw a concept s16 that looked pretty cool. way coller than this g35 wanna be.

03-22-2007, 05:35 AM	#60
curbhuggerrps13 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: fort drum Posts: 798 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	would be sweeter if it was awd

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